Freelander Goes Electric?! AI's Power Problem & Megawatt Charging!

Summary

Everything Electric Podcast – Episode Summary

Podcast: Everything Electric Podcast
Host: Robert Llewellyn (with guest co-host Imogen Pogle)
Episode: Freelander Goes Electric?! AI's Power Problem & Megawatt Charging!
Date: April 7, 2026

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Overview

In this engaging episode, regular host Robert Llewellyn is joined by Imogen Pogle for a wide-ranging discussion packed with breaking news, car industry insights, and conversations about the intersection of technology, sustainability, and electrification. The hosts cover the surprise re-emergence of the Freelander as an electric vehicle, the soaring energy demands of AI-powered data centers, innovations in megawatt charging for commercial vehicles, and broader reflections on electric vehicle adoption and energy systems. The tone is lively, inquisitive, and peppered with anecdotes and banter.

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Episode Breakdown

1. Surprise Launch: The Electric Freelander

Timestamps: 01:36–14:19

• Breaking News: The electric Freelander has suddenly been announced—a surprise that even seasoned car journalists hadn’t anticipated.
  • "This Freelander came out of nowhere." (Imogen, 03:53)
• Industry Background:
  • Imogen shares her experience at JLR (Jaguar Land Rover), working in aerodynamics, design, and PR focused on future technologies: "My last job was working in PR, but very much on the future technology side, so mainly autonomous, connected, electric and shared stuff." (Imogen, 02:14)
  • They reflect on JLR’s 2017 commitment to electrify every model by 2020, which has not been fully realized.
  • The Freelander EV emerges from a joint venture (CJLR – Chery Jaguar Land Rover) in China, unexpectedly and without the usual pre-announcement industry rumors.
• Verification and Skepticism:
  • The hosts double-check multiple sources to confirm it’s not an April Fool’s joke:
    "It feels like it's come out of the woodwork somehow. Yeah. It's kind of weird." (Robert, 05:09)
• Freelander’s Place in the Range:
  • Robert admits he’s historically found the Freelander unimpressive compared to the Range Rover and Defender.
  • Imogen quips: "It's kind of like ... the Princess Beatrice of the Royal Family." (Imogen, 13:45)
• Reflections on the Jaguar I-Pace:
  • The I-Pace was loved by owners but possibly released too early and not followed up with further electric models. The hosts praise its engineering and design legacy.

2. Anecdotes on Car Design and Culture

Timestamps: 09:26–12:22

• Imogen details the I-Pace’s acclaimed design culture and innovative sound engineering, referencing a documentary for further insight.
  • "Even the engineering of the sound system is crafted to give you this sense of being in a much fancier, more elaborate space." (Imogen, 11:02)

3. April Fools’ Tangents and Personal Pranks

Timestamps: 14:19–18:10

• The conversation detours into personal April Fools pranks, including both awkward and successful family stories.
• Imogen’s story about hiding in a box to prank her husband stands out for its comedic timing:
  • "I got into this box, hid it, I sellotaped it from the inside ... And then when he came in, he just went, 'I know you’re in there.'" (Imogen, 17:08)

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4. AI, Data Centers, and the Power Problem

Timestamps: 18:10–24:47

• Megabatteries and Energy Use:
  • Discussion about the explosive growth of grid-scale batteries, notably a newly installed 30 GWh battery in America.
    • "I was so excited ... then I read a bit further down. It's for a data center." (Robert, 18:56)
  • Imogen contextualizes the scale: London uses ~100 GWh a day; a single data center could run London for a portion of a day.
• The Grid and AI's Demand:
  • Robert contrasts past fears about EVs "melting the grid" with the lack of similar concern over the soaring energy use of data centers, especially for AI:
    • "For so long I heard so many people whine on about how electric vehicles would melt the grid ... Now, why aren't those same people now saying data centers will melt the grid?" (Robert, 21:06)
• Environmental Impacts and Equity Issues:
  • Concentrated data centers create significant local impacts (noise, logistics, pollution), sometimes relying on gas turbines running 24/7.
• Efficiency and Future Tech:
  • The first terawatt-hour grid batteries are coming soon, enabling new ways to store excess clean energy and reduce wind power curtailment.

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5. Oil Crises: Past and Future

Timestamps: 24:47–26:56

• The hosts reflect on oil shortages in the 1970s and 2000s, comparing them with today's world that now possesses viable alternatives.
  • "Unlike the oil crisis of the 70s, we have viable, economically viable and technologically viable alternative solutions." (Imogen, 24:47)

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6. Megawatt Charging & Electric Trucks

Timestamps: 28:07–31:55

• Windrose Global E700 Truck:
  • The hosts discuss the new electric truck with 1.5 MW charging capability, highlighting innovations, especially for the European market.
  • Imogen notes the importance of a sleeper cab for European trucking and is impressed by the company's pragmatic approach.
• Trucking Industry Shifts:
  • Electrification in trucking could solve both pollution and driver shortage issues, making the profession more desirable.
  • "The trucks charge faster than the drivers." (Robert, 30:45)
  • Anecdotes from electric truck test drives reinforce how unnoticeable driving such huge machines can be from the cab.

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7. EV Adoption Trends and Second-hand Markets

Timestamps: 31:55–36:00

• EV Sales in the US:
  • While new EV sales have declined (due to political headwinds and policy changes), there's a surge in second-hand EV sales.
  • Manufacturers report unprecedented levels of inquiries for electric vehicles amid fuel cost spikes.
• Comparing Markets:
  • Discussion on the disparity in available models between the US, Europe, and Australia.
  • The conversation also touches on wind farm construction standoffs in the US, particularly under the current administration, and the unstoppable economic logic of renewables.

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8. Broader Energy Strategy & Political Underpinnings

Timestamps: 36:00–40:52

• Supply Chains & Renewables:
  • The hosts discuss political narratives around critical materials (rare earths) and concerns over dependency on China.
  • Texas's leadership in renewable energy is cited as a surprising but important development.
• Historical Parallels:
  • Robert likens today’s political tension to the "Nixon silence" of 1970s America.
  • Both reflect on the long-term nature of political cycles and infrastructure projects.

9. Reflections on Resilience and Humanity

Timestamps: 38:00–41:10

• Imogen shares personal observations from her five-year diary about the value of simple joys and the temporary nature of dark times:
  • "The happiest days are where I've been like, oh, I had a coffee and I went outside for a walk ... joy exists in the simplest of forms..." (Imogen, 38:53)

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10. Societal Costs of War & the Human Side

Timestamps: 41:10–42:03

• Imogen recounts her visit to Hiroshima’s Peace Museum, stressing that citizens often suffer most in conflict, and reminding listeners to value everyday peace.

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11. Electric Vehicle Launches, Lunches & Brand Loyalty

Timestamps: 42:03–47:51

• Upcoming EV Reviews:
  • Robert: About to review the BYD Atto 3 for the UK market.
  • Imogen: Attending the Volvo ES90 launch.
  • Event anecdotes: The crew humorously compares automaker-provided lunches at launch events, deciding to possibly make it into a segment.
• Volkswagen Reflections:
  • Robert recognizes his own brand loyalty to VW Golfs and Land Rovers despite claiming to have none.
  • Both extol the popularity of the VW ID Buzz, especially among everyday tradespeople.
  • Imogen shares her family's fondness for the ID Buzz as a practical, beloved car.

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12. Upcoming Events & Announcements

Timestamps: 47:51–51:40

• Events:
  • Live event at Harrogate (May 8-9), with numerous car brands and a mysterious, wild, all-electric addition hinted at for attendees.
  • B2B (business-to-business) day focuses on topics like EV salary sacrifice.
  • Imogen will miss Harrogate due to surgery but will be present at Cheltenham later in the year.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "This Freelander came out of nowhere." — Imogen Pogle (03:53)
• "For so long I heard so many people whine on about how electric vehicles would melt the grid ... Now, why aren't those same people now saying data centers will melt the grid?" — Robert Llewellyn (21:06)
• "The trucks charge faster than the drivers." — Robert Llewellyn (30:45)
• "It's kind of like ... the Princess Beatrice of the Royal Family." — Imogen Pogle joking about the Freelander’s place in the Land Rover lineup (13:45)
• "The happiest days are where I've been like, oh, I had a coffee and I went outside for a walk ... joy exists in the simplest of forms..." — Imogen Pogle (38:53)

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Episode Flow & Tone

• The conversation is naturally flowing, with segments blending into one another through anecdotes, quick wit, and a focus on the broader implications of breaking news.
• The tone is friendly, informative, and laced with a dry sense of humor, appealing to regular listeners as well as newcomers wanting an accessible entry into electric mobility discussions.

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Useful Timestamps at a Glance

• 01:36–14:19 – Electric Freelander, JLR history, surprise news
• 18:10–24:47 – Data centers, AI power use, batteries, grid impact
• 28:07–31:55 – Windrose electric truck, megawatt charging, trucking
• 31:55–36:00 – US EV market, wind farm policy
• 42:03–47:51 – EV launches, VW/brand loyalty, ID Buzz stories
• 47:51–51:40 – Upcoming events, Harrogate/Cheltenham, B2B day

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If you missed the episode, this summary captures the lively discussion’s key points, memorable stories, and practical updates on the rapidly shifting world of electric vehicles and clean energy.

Transcript

[Robert Llewellyn]

Fiesta de primavera Jega con ma sol mas iversion y mas gratis en los ponto jardina punto conuna bateria Additional ego de cinquentis al compraru Una podadora des malizadora oso fladora ego select y refrescatus Plantas con tierras stay green de umpie

[Imogen Pogle]

cubico cinco pordies dolares nuestra mejor Selection

[Robert Llewellyn]

Sta qui and Lowe's.

[Imogen Pogle]

Foreign.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Hello, and welcome to another exciting episode of the Everything Electric podcast. Now, we did have a rather special guest booked for this week, but through the complexities of booking people and timings, we weren't able to do it. But that person is going to appear on the podcast soon. But in the meantime, I don't think we've got second best. I think we've got first best.

[Imogen Pogle]

Oh.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Because we have the fabulous Imogen Pogle ready and waiting with huge mountains of data and information from around the world that she spent months researching.

[Imogen Pogle]

Oh, my God. If only. If only that were true. We kind of came into this and I think it. Well, we've been chatting for about 25 minutes and I said.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Which we shouldn't have been doing. No, that's wrong.

[Imogen Pogle]

No. Because then we kept saying things that we thought were very funny and should have been on the podcast.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yes.

[Imogen Pogle]

No one else.

[Robert Llewellyn]

But some of them were probably, you know, legally delicate. Don't know. But the thing is that. Because I just. When I was looking at stories yesterday, the first one I saw and that just. I didn't even look for it, it came into my, you know, when you get. I don't even know where it came from. You know, an email update was for an electric Land Rover. I think we should inform the viewers and listeners that you have very, you know, you have direct experience of the company that makes Land Rovers. Jlr. You work there. When I first met you, you were at jlr.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah, that's right. That's where I did a graduate scheme as an engineer to. I've probably said this a thousand times. So for anyone who's heard the story before, buckle up, you're about to hear it again. But, yeah, I was an aerodynamics engineer and then I worked for a long time, both in aerodynamics and also in design, which I loved, because, yes, these are technical products and somehow, somehow tens of thousands of hours of engineering and tens of thousands of people managed to produce a car. But also there's so many different personalities and I loved the kind of drama of negotiation of technical stuff. So it's really fun. My last job, though, was working in pr, but very much on the future technology side, so mainly autonomous, connected, electric and shared stuff. So at the point that I left, we had really, as an organization, just announced that by 2020, there would be an electrified version of every single model, which we now know has not happened.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Not quite happened.

[Imogen Pogle]

If you Google Tech Fest 2017, that was the big kind of like, statement.

[Robert Llewellyn]

That's when they launched that and announced all that.

[Imogen Pogle]

Right. Wow. And, you know, obviously, and Jaguar and. And Rover are not unique in this. Like, many, many, many other car companies have done the same. They've kind of walked back from that commitment. And so it's got to the point now where we're like, come on. Like, we really want to see the electric Jag, really want to see the electric Range Rover. We've been following those so closely. So then to see this Freelander come out of nowhere.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Imogen Pogle]

What? Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I mean, it is. It is a joint venture, isn't it, between GAC and. And Lander and. Well, jlr, which is fast. I mean, it's just extraordinary, the whole thing. Now I'm looking. I'm feverishly looking for my notes.

[Imogen Pogle]

So. So I think GAC is. We've teased another story that might come up. It's with Cherry. Cherry and Jaguar.

[Robert Llewellyn]

That's right, yes.

[Imogen Pogle]

Which is that.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Who's doing. Sorry, it's Cherry and Jaguar.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah, yeah. Because people who've been following the car industry for many years will know that circa 2015, the way that a lot of European OEMs had to do business in China was by joining a joint. Well, performing a joint venture with the Chinese company.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yes. That's not new, is it? At all?

[Imogen Pogle]

So I think. I think 2015, ish, plus or minus a year, was the year that Jaguar, Land Rover and Cherry, they formed cjlr, which was Cherry, Jack.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Oh, right. Yes. Which is. And that's who's done this.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

But it's. I mean, it's very. I mean, if they. From what I can see, it's like a product rather than a concept.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah. I think it also just has not. Has been announced with, like.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I've not heard any. I mean, you know, of all of us, you know, if you think between you, me and Jack and Dan, you know, with our ears to the wall with the glass, you know, of new announcements, you'd think we might have heard of some or some rumor or Elliot, you know, somebody would have known about this. It feels like it's come out the woodwork somehow. Yeah. It's kind of weird.

[Imogen Pogle]

And then. Then when we were chatting off mic and when we weren't recording, we did have to have the ca of. Hang on a second. It is April Fool's Day on the day of recording.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Well, yeah.

[Imogen Pogle]

And they were like, no, no, this was published on 31st March. This has to be actually correct.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Unless it was published in Australia on April Fool's Day. Oh, gosh, I don't think. I think it's a legit story. I mean, it's from a. It's from Electrek, you know, and I don't think they do April's Fools and there's a lot of information about this vehicle and what it's running on and, you know.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah. And I've got Autocar open, so we've got at least two sources.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Right. So we've got. We got two different sources for it. Yeah.

[Imogen Pogle]

But I mean, you know, we were also chatting that really for. For the Land Rover side of the business. Every time they see a J or Moda or another car that looks sort of like a scaled down version of the Evoke, but in electric form and for approximately a third of the price, they must just be like, oh, for God's sake.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Imogen Pogle]

So you always want to.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Because. I don't know. Yeah. I'm just wondering how well the I Pace did for Jaguar. I mean, clearly they sold a hell of a lot to Waymo, because those are going around London now, the Waymos. I've seen about five of them. They've become very common sight.

[Imogen Pogle]

Well, what's interesting about I Pace is that the people who I've met who still own them, and again, I appreciate that this is anecdote rather than hardcore data.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Imogen Pogle]

But they loved them. They absolutely love those cars. And I feel like there's this sentiment that was too early, really, and it wouldn't have been too early if they'd continued to bring out iterations of it or additional electric vehicle models.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Right.

[Imogen Pogle]

But it was sort of this flash in the pan and then we haven't had anything subsequently, but it was a great car and people really, really loved them.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Brilliant car.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah, brilliant car for the technology that existed at the time as well.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah. And whenever I see them now, and I do, I mean, there's plenty of them around, you go, oh, that is. I sort of. I've forgotten about it because we, you know, particularly for us, we're seeing this top, you know, endless kind of torrent of new vehicles being released and they go, oh, the iPad. Because It's. I do like the look of it and it hasn't dated and I don't think it looks a bit weird. It looks great. You know, then they all look in pretty good nick. They're not 40 bits, they're pretty well made. And I mean that. You know, my experience of that vehicle when I went to test drive it in Portugal, whenever it came out, whatever year it came out, I don't. When it was about. I'm sort of thinking about 2017, 18. Was that.

[Imogen Pogle]

I don't know, 2018 was the year.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah, was the year 2018. And everything it did was like, oh, it's like an electric. Oh, and it goes fast. It's a Jaguar. You know, I drove it along their roads. We drove it on a track and I drove much too slowly, you know, around a racing circuit. It was a drop with someone going, go faster? No, fast enough. But then when I drove it, I drew. I drove it up a dusty side of a hill where you were, honestly, as a human being, you would want a stick or a rope. It was properly. It was like steep. I could only see the sky. And this thing went up there with no effort on road tires, on loose ground and dust and rocks. And it did. Occasionally a wheel would go and it. But it would immediately stop if it's. If it lost grip and you just went. It was like that much noise as it went up. It's like that because I've driven silly Land Rovers with massive tires and winches on the front that make screaming noise. And you've got to go into a low ratio gearbox and put it into, you know, all that stuff. It would have. Any. A Land Rover would have got up that hill, but, my God, the noise and the heat and the strain would have been staggering. And this thing just sailed up with that. It was extraordinary. So an amazing drivetrain, I think, which is what, you know, certainly Land Rover are renowned for. Really impressive.

[Imogen Pogle]

Well, this is it. And I'll just. And I know that, you know, as an organization of everything electric and fully charged show we've been a little bit critical of Jaguar Land Rover's commitment to electrification. But I think just reflecting on. I pace for a second where I want to give them a lot of credit, because that car was designed by Ian Callum, who not only is a phenomenal designer, but the culture that he created in his design team was second to none. Just so committed to working with junior designers to bring them up to kind of like bolster their skills. So it's a car that has a phenomenal design culture that sort of sits underneath it. But also there is a documentary about the development of the I Pace which I'm in. I think you can still watch it on Amazon Prime. It's narrated or like the voiceover is by Mark Strong, which is quite fun.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Right. I feel very great man's name. Can I just say Mark Strong. I know, brilliant man's name. If you want a manly man, you ask Mark Strong to do something. And of course not Kevin Week, he doesn't get the gigs

[Imogen Pogle]

real name.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Mark, if you're listening, yes, we knew when I was a kid, we knew the Strongs. There was a family and they were, they were the Strongs. I do remember that. And I now live near a lovely family who are called the stranges. Seriously, Mr. And Mrs. Strange, they live just up the lane. They're lovely.

[Imogen Pogle]

Oh my God. Anyway, such an aside, but there was a recent French election, local election, and the person who won, their name, their surname is Hitler, but with two T's. And he was asked, why have you never changed your name? He was like, well, I'd like to prove that it's not just the name and that people can also be good with that name.

[Robert Llewellyn]

They can be nice Hitlers.

[Imogen Pogle]

Imagine he really has signed up for a life of hardship. But yeah, that documentary was phenomenal to be a part of and we got like the engineering development behind that part. And one thing that always sticks in my mind and I think this is, this is what happens in luxury cars is that, you know, you can afford to do these wonderful things but the sound quality in there is almost like you being in a concert hall. And the reason that they can do that is that they can create an ever so slight delay in the sound that comes from above your head versus the one that comes into your ears or like, you know, sort of lower down and that gives you a perception that the ceiling is much higher and therefore it's more like being in a concert hall. So actually even the engineering of the sound system is crafted to give you this like sense of being in a much fancier, more elaborate space.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Right.

[Imogen Pogle]

And one of the women who kind of pioneered that, you know, she herself was a musician and also an engineer. So yeah, a car holds a real special place in life certainly. Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Our three free YouTube channels on EVs and clean energy tech are funded by our fun packed test drive tastic events in the north west and Greater London and our events down Under. Next up everything Electric heads to Harrogate and then Cheltenham. All events include a B2B EV day and commercial vehicles 2. I'm just going to try and. To do some more stories because we've done. We've done well. I'm very excited to see if the. What would be really embarrassing is if tomorrow we found out automotive world falls for joke about new electric Freelander. April Fools. That'll be embarrassing. But I think it's possibly. I mean. And all the reports I've read of it say it's coming to Europe. It's not just for China, obviously it's going to be for the Chinese market to start with. But I didn't realize the Freelander was a big seller in China. The old.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Combustion Engine 1. Because I always thought the. Out of. Out of all Land Rovers, the Freelander was. I was the least impressed with. You know, even if you're critical of a big suv, the. The Range Rover is amazing vehicle. The old Defender, which I had, was an amazing vehicle. The Freeland was a bit. I don't know, I was never.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah, it's kind of like I was never interested. The Princess Beatrice of the Royal Family, you know, it's like,

[Robert Llewellyn]

yeah, she hasn't done anything wrong, but you don't really want to hang out with her.

[Imogen Pogle]

It's really bad. I actually can't believe I.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Personal chat, but I think it works if she is the print. Yeah. That vehicle was the printer. Well, let's hope this new one is the.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah, maybe I should.

[Robert Llewellyn]

The mayor of New York.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Don't think it's good. No, let's leave it. We're gonna go off on a very bad tangent.

[Imogen Pogle]

Well, I was just gonna say, just whilst you're finding your second story. Are you an April Fool's prankster? Is that something in your family?

[Robert Llewellyn]

No, I. I find that. No, I've never done anything I've Trust or anything I've ever. Oh, God, no. Once. Oh, dear. Only once. And that was so embarrassing and so awful. I rang my. I was in a rehearsal and I rang my then girlfriend, Sonia and put on a slightly Cockney accent and said, is that Sonia Seraphine? Yeah. We have a young man in custody. Robert Llewellyn did a whole thing. Can you come and bail him out? Or something like that. And she. And you know, you could not have done it to a worse person because Sonia was incredibly intelligent woman. We're actually. Judy and I are going to go and see her. We're having lunch with her anyway. But she loves the drama, if there's a potential drama around. And so she went out. She went to a Police station. I was in a rehearsal room the other side of London. That was. That backfired on me badly. That was a bad. The people I was with thought it was funny while I was doing it. And then, you know, and also because she's French, then her ear might not be tuned to the same voice, but doing a different accent, you know, I got away with it. She thought it was the cops.

[Imogen Pogle]

Oh, my God.

[Robert Llewellyn]

That's very, very bad. So, yeah, stupid. What a stupid thing to do. But, yes, I always. I always fall for April's jokes, and I don't think. Other than that, I don't think I've ever done them. Yeah.

[Imogen Pogle]

The only one that I did very successfully was I told my whole family that I'd been asked to be on the Channel 5 version of Love Island. And I've never seen my dad go gray is the only way I can describe it. And. And I kind of said. I was like, you know, I know this is, like, uncomfortable for you guys, but the money's really good. And I just thought, what have I got to lose? And my dad just, like, was silent for, like, a solid three minutes and then just went, I hear they have sex on the television at that point. I'm sorry, dad. It's April Fool's Day.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Imogen Pogle]

I've not done any pranks since.

[Robert Llewellyn]

No.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah. Yeah. I always gave him a heart attack, which I don't need to do again.

[Robert Llewellyn]

But then I sort of think of you. You are more of a prankster than I am because of the things you've done with Deep. With your husband. Where you. Was it. Were you in a box or something that was delivered or it looked like it was. What was that story? The poor man. But I love the way he reacts to it. We shouldn't go on about it too much. Well, that is funny.

[Imogen Pogle]

Just very briefly, what is so annoying about him is that he's incredibly cool and calm all the time.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Imogen Pogle]

And so I obviously have him on Find My Friends. The only reason I use Find My Friends is to see how much time I have to hide for when he's going to come home. I could see that he was, like, three minutes away from home. So I got into this box, hid it, I sellotaped it from the inside, and I'm in there sort of chuckling to myself, seeing, like, okay, he's going to be home in 30 seconds. Annoyingly, his mum rang him, which meant that he was then outside in the car chatting to her for, like, 12 minutes. I'm like, well, I've committed to this box now, so I've got to stay here. And then when he came in, he just went, I know you're in there at that point. I've been in there for like 17 minutes. But like, oh, such a damp squib of a, of a surprise. And in Evelyn. Because I do it every single time.

[Robert Llewellyn]

You do it all the time. And he's never surprised.

[Imogen Pogle]

He's never surprised. It's really upsetting.

[Robert Llewellyn]

We're going to talk about one other. We're going to, we've got, we've got to try and do more than one topic. But no, the one, the thing I wanted to know was because I'd read some stories about big grid batteries and I came across and how big they're getting. So I remember the one that's outside Oxford, that's very near you is I think 50 megawatt hours. It's somewhere around that, you know, which is massive, you know, when you think of how big batteries have got. But there's now a 30 GWh battery in America that's just been installed, just been clicked on 30 gigawatt hours. I mean it takes up quite a lot of room when you get to that scale. But I was so excited. Oh, this will be a great story for tomorrow. And then I read a bit further down. It's for a data center and this

[Imogen Pogle]

is the thing and I kind of, and I'm really sorry to be doing some live Googling, but I want to live Google. Oops, let me see is right one

[Robert Llewellyn]

live Googling is great.

[Imogen Pogle]

I meant to do this before.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I'm glad you write, you say the words that you're Googling because I do that.

[Imogen Pogle]

You know, I tried to like, oh, this is.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Imogen Pogle]

So if we. Wow. Okay. So just to put it in to perspective, and this was, this was the number that I wanted was that London, the city of London, a mega city, uses roughly 100 gigawatt hours a day. So you know, for seven to eight hours you could run off this, this battery for this data center.

[Robert Llewellyn]

The whole city, 12 million people. Yeah. No, it's colossal. But it also tells you the consumption levels of data centers, which I think is, you know, and I know it's a contentious issue and I hear people say it's not as bad as you say and they don't use as much water and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I mean we know, I mean the Grok one in, wherever that is, that's the, that's kind of the worst. It's so typical. Why Is that the worst? They've got 24. I think it's 24 gas turbines running 24 hours a day and people live near it and they can't sleep because of the noise. You know, it's jet engines.

[Imogen Pogle]

And that's the trouble, you know, it's always difficult sort of equating situation, situation. We've just said this One data center versus the City of London. If 30 gigawatt hours of batteries existed in London, they would do so in a very, very distributed way. Not just.

[Robert Llewellyn]

It wouldn't be in one lump.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah, yes, this is. So this is existing in these very concentrated areas for which very specific communities are then hugely impacted. And it's. Yeah, like, you know, the health impact from, from the noise, exposure, from the logistics, everything. And then there's a debate about how that translates into bills in that area and all the rest of it as well.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's a really difficult line for us because, you know, the way people will watch or listen to this is entirely reliant on data centers, you know, and in fact, none of us are innocent of it. I mean, if you've ever ordered anything on Amazon, if you've used the Internet, you've used data centers, you know. But I mean, I think the reason it's come into the news is because of the, you know, galaxy level increase in scale and energy use for, from AI. I mean, that is really. And whether. And now, I mean, I love hearing the debate of going, well, we might not need all that much because now there's new, you know, that is evolving so fast that actually there may not. There may be less use of vast strings of computers in massive buildings with, you know, all that stuff. I think the thing that bugs me, and it's a, it is a chip on my shoulder and it shouldn't be there is that for so long I heard so many people whine on about how electric vehicles would melt the grid. And then you go, no one, you know, now why aren't those same people now saying data centers will melt the grid? You know, but so, you know, I think all of it is relative. You know, it's not as bad as people are saying and also it's much worse than some people are saying, you

[Imogen Pogle]

know, well, this is it. And I think, you know, as you say, it's a difficult conversation to have when I research a lot of things and I really do need AI sometimes to help me consolidate some of that research. But there are ways, and I'm sure many people listening to this are using various AI tools at work or in their personal lives and there are things that you can do in order to reduce your own personal consumption so you can feel slightly less bad about your contribution. So for example, grouping requests, being very clear about what you actually want to ask. So actually taking a step back and thinking about the problem slightly more strategically using your actual physical human brain, which is a very power source actually rather than just willy nilly throwing out ChatGPT requests and also using the AI tool which is funded by someone who most closely aligns with your own personal morals. I think that's very important and so always worth doing that research as well. Yeah, tricky.

[Robert Llewellyn]

It is, it is a tricky one. But I mean it's also, I think the, the positive side of that story is that the concept of a 30 gigawatt hour and there was also in, in further research there are. The first terawatt hour batteries will be coming online. They'll be in China, but they will be in, they will be counted in terawatts. And that, that would be enough to run a city of 12 million people for a day or a day and a half. Then you go that's. But what we need that for, I mean, I think I always have to kind of go through this for myself is the curtailment of wind power is, you know, such an absolute travesty of insanity and human waste that you want to have all those wind turbines going flat out 24 hours a day and any electricity you don't use that moment you store in vast batteries all over the, that are distributed around the country. Which means that you then have, you know, I mean that's how it's so obvious. But, and that technology is now becoming economically plausible. I think that's the underlying story there.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

You know, to build, you imagine building a 30 GWh battery storage. In 2010, it would be billions, literally billions of dollars. Now it's some millions and it's less

[Imogen Pogle]

each time, you know, and the funny time that we're in and I'm really conscious that I'm about to venture us into territory that warrants more research and a future discussion. But an oil crisis where unlike the oil crisis of the 70s, we have viable, economically viable and technologically viable alternative solutions. And so whilst there's no question things are going to be absolutely horrific later in the summer, but we, we do have the things to make sensible choices.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you're absolutely right because I mean you, you won't remember this. Well, I just remember cycling Past a. Right. A line of cars in Oxford that was in Oxford in the early 70s. And it just went on for the. It went on for. It went out of town, I mean, because there was no. It wasn't that petrol got expensive, which it did. There wasn't any. You know, that was the fuel crisis. And so you were allowed to buy a gallon and people would queue up for a day to get one gallon of fuel, which, of course they. I mean, the cars were so hopelessly inefficient. Then they got through a gallon in about 20 miles, you know.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

So it was a. It was an absolute disaster. I mean. No, no, because I was a kid and didn't care and it was funny, you know, it didn't really. It didn't affect me at all. But, you know, I think of all the families trying to get to school or get to work and all that stuff would have been a nightmare then, you know, it was really horrid and there was absolutely no alternative. There wasn't anyone cruising past smugly in an electric car. They didn't exist.

[Imogen Pogle]

Well, my only kind of very similar experience to that, or like, sort of similar experience that was there was a petrol shortage in about 2003.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Right.

[Imogen Pogle]

That time, maybe early 2000.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I don't remember that.

[Imogen Pogle]

It only lasted like a week.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Oh, right. I was at the tanker driver's strike. That could have been something like that. Yeah, yeah.

[Imogen Pogle]

And queues and queues and queues at petrol stations.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah, yeah.

[Imogen Pogle]

But, you know, it was temporary, ultimately, and.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yes, yes, it was. And it was very localized to here. This is global, isn't it?

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

This episode is brought to you by Hankook. The Hong Kook ion tyre is built exclusively for electric vehicles, engineered to deliver what EV drivers need most confident grip, quietness, energy efficiency and long mileage. As the official tire partner of Formula E, Hong Kook proves its EV technology is at the highest level of performance and brings that same innovation to every ion tyre on the road. This is a story that you know, know about because you've been. You've seen it and I haven't. The wind Rose Global E700 electric truck actually did charging, so I know that in Germany because I watched the electric trucker and he's amazing. And he's charged at one point. Yeah. So. But there is a charger in the uk. It's in the. It's in a big commercial vehicle hub somewhere in the East Midlands, I think, and it charged at 1.5 megawatts, which is obviously what you need in Trucks. But you saw that truck, and it is remarkably similar to the Tesla semi in its looks, I think it's fair to say.

[Imogen Pogle]

And so we have done two episodes on this. We did a review of the truck itself, which you can find on the channel, and we'll link to it, and also a podcast episode with the CEO. Yeah, and it's interesting because having, you know, we've done this job for a little while and we've seen companies come and go, and I think it means that we do have a base level of skepticism, particularly when it comes to younger CEOs with really, really big ambitions. And so Wen Han, who is the CEO, he's like 36. And I really went in being like, all right, cool, you've got a truck. And I came away being like, no, this is going to be remarkably successful. I think he brings a real humility to that job. I think he can absolutely see where he can leverage an existing supply chain and where he also needs to very much be present in Europe and leverage that expertise as well. So there's, you know, he's got a sensible plan. And when you ask him about the Tesla semi resemblance, he's like, well, it's a question of aerodynamics. There's only so many shapes that a truck of that size can be if you are prioritizing efficiency. But the really big difference between his truck and the Tesla semi is that his has a. A bed for a driver. And he was like, if you want to make a truck work in Europe, you've got to have that as an inclusion.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Sleep in that. Yeah, yeah. Wow. But, and it's, I mean, it is, you know, I think, so important when you think, when, you know, if you drive on any motorway in the uk, Autobahn, auto route, freeway, you know, anywhere, you will see a lot of trucks. There's a huge number of truck movements that, you know, that happen every day that burn billions of gallons of diesel, you know, and the. This is a really. I just think it's a critically important part of the whole transition is that the more big electric trucks there are, the more then a truck stop place is going to put in big chargers. That's worth it from their point of view. You know, it makes economic sense. And I think the critical thing, which I hadn't really thought about, but when I watched the electric trucker, who I really hope we will do some collaborative shows with, he's in Germany. Tobias is very nice, is that they have to stop. It's the law. You know, when people say, well, I drive, I Need to drive to Scotland, you know. Well, you can't. You've got to stop mate or you'll get. You'll lose your license. They have to stop for longer than it takes the trucks to charge. That's the basic thing. The trucks charge faster than the drivers.

[Imogen Pogle]

Exactly that. And if you just think that these are thunder and great big vehicles, those drivers, it's not vanity that they need their rest. That is in the interest of the safety of other road users. And whilst I think we have a tendency to think of trucking as this very archaic thing, it's not every time you order something from the Internet you are supporting. But it is also an industry facing a huge shortage of drivers. And when hands point is like, well, if you can create something that's actually desirable to be in like that's really important. You know, I think there's like a deficit of like 26% of jobs or something like that. It's like an astonishing, you know, they're struggling to recruit.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah, yeah. Oh God. Because I. I wish I wasn't so old because I'd love to drive one of those. But then Rebecca. Well, you remember when we drove the electric trucks at Millbrook and I did, I altered the landscape I think in a beneficial way by slightly cutting a corner.

[Imogen Pogle]

It was you only slightly cut that corner. But the damage was rather sizable.

[Robert Llewellyn]

It was sizable. But I mean what is incredible with those machines and that was nothing to do with electric. I'm sure these one would be the same but it was just unnoticeable from the cab. I didn't realize I was dragging six wheels through mud. I didn't even feel it. I mean I just wasn't. It's so. They're so enormous. So the amount of damage you could do in one of those is terrifying. New electric vehicle sales in the United States, of course they've gone down. You know, there's a government that is vehemently opposed to anything like electric vehicles. But what is interesting is their second hand car sales have seen this weird spike in interest particularly in the last few weeks. I mean I think it's worth tying that in with the fact that we know that many of the automotive manufacturers we know have said it's gone insane. We've never had this many inquiries. We cannot keep up with the demand. We know since the Epstein war started just phenomenal interest in people, I think who it would only be people who've gone, maybe next time we get a car we should get an electric one or I want to try one or all that sort of stuff, they've all gone, I don't want to try. When I want one, give me one. Because they've seen the cost of fuel. But the fact that that's happened, that's really interesting in America because there must be quite a few secondhand electric vehicles for sale. I mean, there is a market because I'm just not aware of the American EV market at the moment. I don't know what's going on. That was an intriguing story.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah. And you know, we hear, we see it in the comments. Like, for example, the Renault Twingo went out yesterday and there are comments in there being like, I love this car, it's so cute. Maybe I don't need to wait for it to come to the us. I should just move to Europe.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yes. And so many comments on every car we do. Oh, if only we could get that here.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

From Americans, you know.

[Imogen Pogle]

And isn't it interesting that just a few years ago that used to be the Australian market that were making those comments on our videos. I wish we could get this here and now. I mean, they're getting things first as

[Robert Llewellyn]

a test now I see things in Australia and I go, I wish we could get that here. And for the price that they pay for it in Australia, which is considerably less than here.

[Imogen Pogle]

But yeah, I mean, that being the main driver and I'm like, I should move to Australia. I could go outside every day, it'd be great. But yeah, I mean, it's interesting because it's totally unsurprising that the new EB sales have gone down when A, the policies are such that they're not supported and B, there just isn't as much choice as you see elsewhere. Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

No, I mean, I think the beauty is the interesting thing that's happened from our standpoint in the last year is there were three massive offshore wind farms under construction that the President did A, stop all work and then it went to court and they were. His orders were like completely illogical and so they're now doing them. I mean, also because I didn't know the details of it till I looked into it. I thought they were planned. They had, they had, they were half done. I mean, they were installing it. It was employing thousands of people, you know, to install those and to maintain them. It was, it was reinvigorating people who were doing fishing who no longer don't can because there's no fish. Little bit of a worry. And they've now converted their ships to maintenance ships to run the, the offshore wind turbos and now it's all happening. I mean, they. They be. The first one will be opening quite soon. So that's counter to the current thing, but also the amount of solar and batteries that have been installed in America in the. Since the last election has kind of doubled from what it was before just because it makes economic sense. It's nothing else.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah. And, you know, Texas has, like, the highest density of renewables than like, any other. And. And I kind of think, because I feel like it's really easy so often to be like, oh, he's stupid, or, you know. Yeah, it's stupidity.

[Robert Llewellyn]

It's not stupid.

[Imogen Pogle]

It's not stupid. It's like, well, oh, hang on a second. You're now really dependent on critical materials and rare earth metals that are coming from China, like your nemesis. That's the driver. But then also, that's kind of like. We can see the strategy of why that narrative is being spun. But then equally contending with. I think the wind turbine stuff in particular was like a totally irrational.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah, that isn't sensible.

[Imogen Pogle]

There is stupidity and logic, and it's

[Robert Llewellyn]

not beautifully mixed together. Yeah, it's a beautiful mixture with fairly unrealistic hair. You know, just this very, very peculiar. I mean, I don't even want it. You know, the thing is, now it is the. There was a thing that I don't really remember because I was too young at the time, but there was a thing in America called the Nixon silence and that. And it was a few people in that I knew in America, they said, oh, you go to a dinner party and it's all funny and laughing, and then someone mentions Nixon. It just goes quiet for like three minutes as everybody just sits there. So I would presume in those similar circles, and I would say this was on the kind of liberal elite coastal people who've crushed the freedom of America. But you know, that. That same group, I would imagine there's now, you know, who. Silence. I don't even want to say his name.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

But what, you know, the thing is they will go. I heard a Republican senator this morning who is not standing for the next election midterms. He's. He's retired old guy. And he said, the thing that those guys are not remembering is he will go. There will be a time after this guy in the White House. He will go. One way or the other, that guy is going, remember that, dudes? Because no, a lot of people ain't gonna forget. You know, it was a really. And I thought, well, that's not coming from some you know, banner holding liberal. That is coming from a pretty right wing Republican who is not a fan of the Big Man. But yeah, very interesting. Will pass.

[Imogen Pogle]

It will pass. I. Why am I sharing this fact? I'll share it. Anyway, this happens. This is only ever with you, Rob. I'm like, I'm just saying things Anyway, so I have a five year diary and we got given them as presents and you only have like, it's like literally two sentences that you can write something in. And I'm in the third year of it and I think that I have two reflections. One, the happiest days are where I've been like, oh, I had a coffee and I went outside for a walk. It is nothing fancy. It is always like those really, really simple moments that I'm like, I'm so grateful that these exist. And the second reflection is that when there have been difficult periods of time, I guess personally, like, you know, work is stressful or whatever.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Imogen Pogle]

It is temporary and you get to the other side and you're like, oh, that was a temporary blip. And yeah, it's a nice reminder that joy exists in the simplest of forms amidst things that seem incredibly dark and scary. And the incredibly dark and scary doesn't last forever either, I hope.

[Robert Llewellyn]

No,

[Imogen Pogle]

that's what I tell myself every day.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I think it's a good call just for sanity. I think it's worth remembering that for your own personal sanity because obviously if you live in Tehran at the moment, it's quite. That would be quite a hard thing to, to cling to. And I mean, you know, and what's so awful about. As always, it's the same with the last insanity with Iraq, you know, I. There's. There was loads of people in Baghdad who were really nice, kind, thoughtful, gentle people who didn't want to kill anyone and were, you know what, you know, and the same in Iran, you know, I know. I think we also were more exposed to Iranians because of all the ones that left when, when the Shah was deposed. You know, that's my generation of people. There's a lot of Iranians about my age who are, who live in the UK and have done since they were kids. So I was very. So I had lots of Iranian mates. I went to Iranian weddings and they're just amazing and they're like really amazing people. They're not murderous nutters, you know. And that's, you know, whenever this stuff happens, a bloody. It's. That is a stupid war. I'm going to say that the Epstein War is A stupid war. It doesn't. It's not going to solve the problem. In two years time, Iran's going to be firing missiles at Israel. It's course it is. They might be made of cardboard, but they'll get through somehow. You know, it's so point. It doesn't solve the bloody problem. I could absolutely agree there's a problem, it's an awful regime, but that it's stupid wars. I mean, it's the last thing we should be talking about everything electric. But it is an oil war. It always is a oil war.

[Imogen Pogle]

It's a fudging oil war. That's what I'll say. But, you know, and I'll just. I'll just say this as well and then we will share some happy things at the end. But yes, I was in Japan on holiday and we went to the Hiroshima. We went to the Peace Museum in Hiroshima.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Right.

[Imogen Pogle]

If anyone has any plans to go to Japan, you cannot go and not go to that museum. It's incredibly important that you do so. And it is one of those stark reminders where you're like these things that are happening in the world, they are divorced from the communities and people who live in those countries who just want to get by and just want to get by peacefully and they are often the biggest victims of insanity that comes from powerful people who don't think about people. But yeah, it's a really. It's an incredible museum. You leave feeling bleak. But yeah, well worth going to. But we should end on a happier note. You have a shoot tomorrow? I have a shoot tomorrow.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Oh, yes, yes.

[Imogen Pogle]

I think I got the better deal.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Oh, yeah, you usually do. Well, I'm seeing. Well, I'm seeing a car that I'm intrigued to see because I know it really well, which is always a help for me. So it's a BYD Atto 3 relaunched RE Z up and I've driven an Atto 3 a lot in Australia and I mean, it's a great little car. I love it. Well, it's not that little, but it isn't a big, chunky suv. It's a small, petite suv, but a brilliant, brilliant car. I love that. It's so easy. It's one of those. So easy to drive. You don't have to have a degree in understanding computer graphics, you know. And the SAT nav worked. I used it all over the place now. It was good anyway, so. And I've forgotten what you're seeing or can you not mention it?

[Imogen Pogle]

I can mention it. It's the Volvo ES90.

[Robert Llewellyn]

That's right.

[Imogen Pogle]

And I think just safe to say, you know, all of these electric cars are good and obviously they're good, depending on what your budget is. But from our sense, the fancier the brand, the better the lunch. It's fair to say.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Oh, oh, yes. Although. Yes, no, you're right. I mean, in some ways, when there's like a very basic lunch, I think that's good. Put all the money into the actual vehicle, make it that work, you know, don't. You don't have to suck up to boring automotive journalists. But on the other hand, when it's nice, I'm not going to say no, you'll get a better lunch. Well, I think we should do a lunch comparison.

[Imogen Pogle]

We really should. Maybe that's the kind of behind the scenes content people actually want. But on Monday, I went to Frankfurt to see the Ioniq 3. I don't think I'm allowed to say anything other than that until it comes out in a couple of weeks, but you've seen it. We were there with Autotrader. Well, we were there as everything, electric cars and Autotrader with the other journalists there. And the day had been a bit chaotic. The time that we had to shoot was like minuscule. But then I just turned around to Auto Trader. At one point I was like, do you know what the best thing about coming to Frankfurt for car shoots? And they were like, no. I was like, really salty buttery pretzels. And they're. Behold. We had like 40 minutes to do this shoot. There's this whole big table of salty buttery pretzels. A scoop up two. We go on our way back to the airport. It was great. So no complaints.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Oh, well, I'm going to Frankfurt soon, next week to see Volkswagen's huge new array of electric vehicles, which looks a couple of those. I'm actually genuinely going to end on a. We will end, I promise. But I remember being asked, you know, early on, my early days of trying to understand how to review electric vehicles and what the whole thing was about, someone asked me about brand loyalty and I was all. I was actually, I don't do that. You know, I hate having other people's writing on my clothes. You know, Calvin Klein. I don't want to wear that. I don't want his name on my T shirt anyway. And so I said, I don't do brand. Brand royalty. And they said, what was your last Petrocono? Oh, it was a Volkswagen Golf. Arthur, I'm so shocked. And what was the one before that? A Volkswagen Golf VR6. What was the one before that? A Volkswagen Golf GTO. What was the one before that, another GTO. What was the one before that? A Golf Tour. I'd had something like eight golfs, I mean over like 25 years. Not in, not in a few months. And I realized, oh my God, that is brand loyalty. And then what were the. Any other cars I had were Land Rovers. So I've not, I never owned any petrol burning vehicles that weren't either Land Rovers or VW Golfs. So I've got obscene levels of brand loyalty. But that said, yes, I'm very loyal. But so I'm very excited to see. I really, really, really want Volkswagen just to really thrive in the electric market, you know, and they've done well. There's something like the ID buzz. I mean, phenomenal success and I've not heard anyone go, yeah, I had the buzz, it wasn't up to scratch, so I got rid of it. They go, oh my God, I've got the buzz. You know, they just go bananas about it. Yes. And I've also seen like normal people, like plumbers and you know, electricians with ID buzzes. And I go, oh my God, that's like, that's like a normal company. It's not like.

[Imogen Pogle]

Well see, I've got to tell you this because last year it was my in law's 60th birthday and we went away for the weekend and a couple of months prior to that my mother in law said to me, oh, I've had the strangest dream. Do you continue? So, yeah, I've had the strangest dream that for our 60th birthday weekend we went there in a VW ID Buzz and I was like, was that a dream or is that a request? Anyway, it was very much a request, I think, but we, we went down this weekend way had obviously four grown adults, three dogs, all of our gubbins for the weekend. It's, it's a great car. My, my sister and mother will have one. They absolutely adore it. It's like, right, they're known in their area for it. It's. Yeah, they're great cars.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah. So I want, I mean, because the ID3, I loved it when I first drove, I drove the really early prototype and it was amazing and I was so excited and it's, you know, you see a lot of them, it's okay. But it did have some annoying glitchy stuff which, you know, Dan is, Jack is very good at being angry about haptic buttons. But yeah, I'm Just excited to see. I know also that there are sort of effectively GTI versions of their cars coming out, because I did. I did have some classic. I was a classic. I was a GTI totter. There's no avoiding it. I can't. I can't get away with it.

[Imogen Pogle]

Well, so Andy, the videographer who is joining you on that. That trip, we were having a discussion about that shoot on. On Monday, and there's like an overwhelming amount of stuff that VW are going to have on display.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Lost, I don't know. And we got for like four minutes with each one. It's ridiculous.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I don't know how we can do it.

[Imogen Pogle]

So I think it's going to be delightfully chaotic and I hope really fun as well.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Anyway, I don't think I've. This is. I've enjoyed recording this podcast a lot and I'm now very worried that it's the most waffly lot of old nonsense.

[Imogen Pogle]

Well, I don't think people will tell us if that's what they think. But I'd also just like it to be known that we went into this saying, okay, let's aim for half an hour.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Oh, God, what have we done? 51 minutes. I didn't even notice because on my end the time is quite small because it's quite big on yours, isn't it? But when we record things on our. The software we use.

[Imogen Pogle]

Well, you know.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Shut up.

[Imogen Pogle]

Time flies when you're having fun and this has been delightful, so.

[Robert Llewellyn]

It has.

[Imogen Pogle]

I'm not upset about it and I hope no one else is either.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah. So I'll say. Oh, Our live event at Harrogate, which is coming up in the beginning of May, is looking very. I had a long talk with Jo, who's the woman who organizes a lot of it for people who don't know. They're really pleased because so many car. There's going to be so many car companies that we. More than I think we've ever had in the uk. So it's looking very good and there is an exciting. I'm not going to mention it because it's not been confirmed, but there's an exciting addition to the live events that is not exactly in keeping with our general ethos, but it is all electric. I'll just say that it's quite wild. There's a wild thing that is coming to Harrogate. So if you're in the. In the Harrogate environs, if you're. Even if you're 100 miles from Harrogate. It's really worth coming on that weekend, which is. What are the dates?

[Imogen Pogle]

It is the eleventh and twelveth, seventh and eighth of May, that weekend. Eighth of May, eighth, ninth and tenth.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Just two days, eighth and ninth. It's a Friday and Saturday, eighth and ninth of May. It's going to be good. And there's a B2B day which doesn't stop that. You've got to be careful how you say that. I think there's a business to business day because if you say B to B day that's a different thing. But a B to B day on the Friday. But that doesn't mean the general public are allowed there. But there's some. There's a lot of businessy talks going on which the general public might not be that interested in.

[Imogen Pogle]

But because I think the key thing, and we have all benefited from this in our organization is that of course an affordable or a more affordable way to access an EV is via salary sacrifice. So if any businesses, employers, employees would like that, then that's a good day to come to for sure.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And there's some. Definitely on the Friday. There's some real clever people who really know how that works that are available to discuss that with and be panels. You and I will probably be hosting panels about salary sacrifice.

[Imogen Pogle]

Well, I'm not there.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Oh, you're not there, are you? As I was saying that I was

[Imogen Pogle]

going on, I. I feel very bad. I'm having a little operation a couple of weeks beforehand. So the chance that I probably would be fine by then. But.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah, it's not where it is. But there's some other lovely people that are coming.

[Imogen Pogle]

Yeah, much better upgrades really.

[Robert Llewellyn]

But then you'll be in. You'll be at Cheltenham. You come to Cheltenham. I will. So never ever thought I'd do. Yeah, I never thought I'd do a big eevee event in Cheltenham, which is the town where I was made, which my mother always thought was disgusting. I didn't. I wasn't born there.

[Imogen Pogle]

Oh, brought by the. Brought by the stork there.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yes, that's where the stork flew over. Yeah, nine months before I was born. Anyway, shut up, Robert. Let Imogen go and do something useful. Say goodbye to the lovely people. Lovely people who've been watching. Please do subscribe. Please do tell your friends about this. There isn't always waffle like this. There's some very clever people that appear on this. Not that Imogen isn't very clever and I'm medium clever. And as always, if you have been. Thank you for watching.