From Australia to ZAPHEAP! Robert & Dan's Candid 'Behind-The-Scenes' Chat

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Fully Charged Podcast – "From Australia to ZAPHEAP! Robert & Dan's Candid 'Behind-The-Scenes' Chat"

Episode Information:

• Title: From Australia to ZAPHEAP! Robert & Dan's Candid 'Behind-The-Scenes' Chat
• Host/Author: The Fully Charged Show
• Release Date: March 17, 2025

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1. Introduction

In this episode of The Fully Charged Podcast, host Robert Llewellyn engages in a candid conversation with Dan Caesar, CEO of the Fully Charged Show. Recorded at the Giga Theatre during the Sydney Everything Electric Show, Robert and Dan reflect on recent events, share insights on global electric vehicle (EV) trends, and discuss future initiatives.

2. Highlights from the Sydney Everything Electric Show

a. Electric Ferry in Hobart

• Dan Caesar highlights the remarkable electric ferry being built in Hobart, Tasmania:
  “The ferry that's being built in Hobart... it’s an electric machine that size, it’s massive... but it's all electric.”
  (Timestamp: [00:54])
• Key Features:
  • Weight Reduction: The electric ferry is 250 tons lighter than its diesel counterpart, primarily due to the absence of heavy diesel engines and fuel tanks.
  • Performance: Equipped with jets that propel it through water at impressive speeds.
  • Timeline: Scheduled for sea trials around October-November, with deployment in South America by early next year.

b. Advancements in Electric Trucks

• Dan discusses the progression of electric trucks in Australia:
  “We've seen a couple years ago... now dozens are operational across Australia, saving millions in fuel costs.”
  (Timestamp: [02:58])
• Impact:
  • Significant fuel savings for trucking companies.
  • Transition from diesel to electric is gaining momentum, demonstrating economic and environmental benefits.

c. High Number of Exhibitors and Test Drives

• The Sydney show featured 35 car companies, a record for the event:
  “We've had some of the busiest stands... everything Electric.”
  (Timestamp: [05:18])
• Test Drive Demand:
  “Someone from BYD said they pre-booked all test drives for the entire weekend.”
  (Timestamp: [03:48])
• Audience Engagement: High participation with nearly 30,000 visitors, up from just five or six in the inaugural year.

3. Comparison of Global EV Markets

a. Australia’s EV Market Dynamics and Potential

• Dan Caesar elaborates on Australia's strategic position in the Asia Pacific region:
  “Australia is well-positioned as part of the Asia Pacific, allowing Chinese and Korean companies to easily test and export.”
  (Timestamp: [06:20])
• Market Characteristics:
  • Electric Sales Percentage: Approximately 10% of new car sales in 2024.
  • Advantages:
    • No protective tariffs due to the absence of a native car industry.
    • Abundant sunshine, enabling cheaper electricity and potential for solar integration.
  • Cost Benefits: EVs in Australia are significantly cheaper—for instance, the MG Cyberster is £4,500 less than in the UK.

b. UK’s EV Sales and Challenges

• Robert Llewellyn discusses the UK’s EV market trajectory:
  “EV sales in the UK have flattened out, maintaining around 25% of new sales in early 2025.”
  (Timestamp: [17:44])
• Issues Faced:
  • Economic Factors: Brexit has negatively impacted the UK economy, creating uncertainty and slowing growth.
  • Policy Fluctuations: Changing emission standards and delayed mandates have created a stagnant market.
  • Used EV Market Growth: Over 50% growth last year, now totaling 188,000 used EV sales.
• Positive Aspects:
  “25% of new car sales being electric is a huge number,” emphasizing sustained interest despite flat growth.

c. Canada’s EV Market and Future Plans

• Dan Caesar lauds Vancouver’s EV scene:
  “Vancouver Convention Centre is hands down the most beautiful venue... with a record number of exhibitors.”
  (Timestamp: [26:00])
• Market Support:
  • British Columbia: Strong support from BC Hydro and environmentally-conscious consumers.
  • Future Shows: Plans to return to Vancouver in September, with potential expansion to Toronto and Perth pending political climates.
• Challenges:
  Potential impact of American tariffs on Canadian EV imports, though some Canadian politicians advocate for increased Chinese EV presence to benefit consumers.

4. Importance of Fighting Misinformation

a. Launch of Electric Vehicles UK

• Robert Llewellyn explains the creation of Electric Vehicles UK:
  “We turned Stop Burning Stuff into Electric Vehicles UK to bring the whole industry together.”
  (Timestamp: [36:10])
• Objectives:
  • Combat Misinformation: Address and debunk myths surrounding EVs and renewable energy.
  • Reinvent the Narrative: Shift focus to the positive aspects and benefits of EV adoption.
  • Collaboration: Unite various industry players to present a cohesive and powerful message.

b. Initiatives and Reports

• Cost of Driving Electric Report:
  “80% of people can save using an EV... over £6,000 saved over the term of ownership.”
  (Timestamp: [38:17], [39:03])
• Key Findings:
  • Cost Savings: Highlighting the long-term financial benefits of switching to EVs.
  • Used EV Market Benefits: Used EVs are on average £2,800 cheaper than comparable petrol or diesel cars.

5. Future Projects and Initiatives

a. Launch of Everything Electric Australasia

• Robert Llewellyn announces the new YouTube channel:
  “Everything Electric Australasia will feature regional content, collaborating with representatives from Shanghai, Seoul, Sydney, and New Zealand.”
  (Timestamp: [13:54])
• Goals:
  • Expand content reach in the Asia Pacific region.
  • Showcase diverse EV technologies and market differences.

b. ZAPHEAP Project and Live Tests

• Dan Caesar introduces ZAPHEAP:
  “We’ve launched a Kickstarter to fund a pilot episode and live tests at the Farnborough show in October.”
  (Timestamp: [47:15])
• Project Scope:
  • Teams Building from Junk: Two teams will construct electric machines from recycled materials.
  • Live Reveals and Testing: Aiming to replicate the innovative spirit of the original Scrapheap Challenge.
• Funding Needs: Emphasizes the financial challenges and the necessity of community support to realize the project.

c. Fully Charged Show’s 15th Anniversary

• Dan Caesar and Robert Llewellyn reflect on the show's evolution over 15 years:
  “We've grown from featuring a handful of EVs to over 35 car companies at our shows.”
  (Timestamp: [41:17])
• Achievements:
  • YouTube Growth: Over 1.1 million subscribers across multiple channels.
  • Global Events: Successfully hosting events in various countries, adapting to challenges like COVID-19 and geopolitical shifts.

6. Conclusion and Acknowledgements

Robert and Dan express gratitude towards their team, patrons, and investors, acknowledging the collective effort required to sustain and grow The Fully Charged Show. They emphasize the importance of continued collaboration to advance EV adoption and combat misinformation. The episode wraps up with excitement for upcoming events and initiatives, underscoring their commitment to a sustainable future.

Notable Quotes:

• Robert Llewellyn:
  “It’s an electric vehicle that’s lighter than the diesel equivalent, which is quite extraordinary.”
  (Timestamp: [01:40])
• Dan Caesar:
  “If you can communicate the cost benefits of electric vehicles, you will win more minds by doing that than any other single action.”
  (Timestamp: [39:06])
• Robert Llewellyn:
  “This is a game of musical chairs. And for those that are putting their heads in the sand, it's going to be pretty brutal.”
  (Timestamp: [34:03])
• Dan Caesar:
  “We didn’t come out of the blue... It has a huge resonance. It's very, very relevant to the modern world.”
  (Timestamp: [49:06])

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This episode provides a comprehensive overview of the current state and future prospects of the electric vehicle industry, highlighting regional differences, advancements, and the critical need to address misinformation. Robert and Dan’s discussions offer valuable insights for both EV enthusiasts and industry stakeholders aiming to navigate and contribute to the evolving landscape of sustainable transportation.

Transcript

[Robert Llewellyn]

Foreign.

[Dan Caesar]

Welcome to another episode of the Fully Charged show podcast, coming today from the stage at the Giga Theatre at the Sydney Everything Electric Show. Kind of special, but we're recording this after most of the audiences left and some of the crew are all chatting over there, but we'll ignore them. And I'm here with Dan Caesar, CEO of the Fully Child show, and we haven't caught up, actually. We barely. We've both been so busy, we've barely even spoken since we've been here, but we haven't caught up doing a podcast for a long time and there's a lot happening.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Well, you've been down here for how long?

[Dan Caesar]

A couple of months, I think now. Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And have you had a good trip?

[Dan Caesar]

It's been amazing, yeah. And also because we also went to New Zealand, so it's been a bit special. We got over to New Zealand and did some episodes there, done lots of episodes here. We're now doing this here at some.

[Robert Llewellyn]

What were the standout episodes? I'm not interviewing you. Why am I doing this?

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah, well, I think really noticeably the. The ferry that's being built in Hobart, in Tasmania is just extraordinary, I mean, because of the scale of it. So to see an electric machine, battery. Electric machine that size, it's massive. You know, it's a huge, you know, ferry. It's an extraordinary. I mean, I think even if it had a diesel engine, it would be quite interesting because it's a really big catamaran. It's got two holes, it goes really fast through the water. It's got jets that come out the water that fire water hundreds of meters out the back to push it along. I mean, that's extraordinary enough. But it's all electric.

[Robert Llewellyn]

When does it go into service in.

[Dan Caesar]

It will be. It's going to have sea trials around October, November, and it will go over to. It's going to be in South America. It's being used and it will be there, I think, early next year, I think. Realistically.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Very exciting.

[Dan Caesar]

Incredible, yeah, really exciting. And. And the one stat I can't help remembering is it's about 250 tons. 250 tons lighter than if they built it with diesel engines and fuel tanks. So if it had fuel tanks full and all the diesel engines, which are massive and heavy, that's what it would. So it's. It's an electric vehicle that's lighter than the diesel equivalent, which is quite extraordinary. Anyway, that was really exceptional. The Cherry Farm. Amazing. Amazing. Cherries. We did eat a lot of cherries. We Were allowed to eat as many as we wanted. And the vesv, the hydrofoil boat, was incredible. That was amazing. I mean, everything we've seen, the Janus truck, which is here, the batteries, I mean, that is like, come on, guys, let's sort this out and do it everywhere because, you know, we've now seen it. I think the first time I saw that, which is a couple years ago, it was functioning and there was one truck that worked for one company delivering sand in Brisbane. There's now dozens of them all over Australia. And they're saving the trucking companies millions of dollars in fuel because you guys, you kind of forget. You fill a big truck like that up. It only does like two miles to the gallon or whatever it would be. It uses huge amounts of diesel fuel, you know, moving. If you're moving 90 tons of cement. They're massive trucks. I mean, they're really big.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Anyway, one of my favorite things about the last decade of working with you is that we've taken these stories, things that are happening in different parts of the world, and we've shown other parts of the world that they're possible.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

The electric ferry.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

The electric farm, effectively with cherries.

[Dan Caesar]

It was 100 electric.

[Robert Llewellyn]

The hydrofoil, the battery swapping on the big rigs.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I mean, so doing that really is. It's been a privilege, hasn't it? And we're very, very lucky.

[Dan Caesar]

And I mean, also the fact that a lot of it is actually here. I mean, this show has been, for me, I think, one of the most remarkable we've ever done. And the. Well, I mean, you know, I can't keep up with the stats, but the amount of test drives we're doing here is bliss. It's just the amount of different cars, if nothing else. I spoke to someone today and they said, I'm here all three days. If I do a test drive every time I get the chance, I still can't have a go in all the cars that are available. I mean, that's incredible.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I think someone from BYD said on the first morning of this show that they pre booked all the test drives for the entire weekend.

[Dan Caesar]

Wow. On Friday morning.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yes. Don't tell me there's not enough demand.

[Dan Caesar]

Yes, yes.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And the reality is that we all know as electric vehicle drivers that getting people in them.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah. Is the big thing.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Three quarters of the battle is not half the battle. And that convinces people. That's the clincher. So for us, that's just one facet of what we do with the live shows. But I think you're right. End of day two. I've got a beer here.

[Dan Caesar]

I've got a beer.

[Robert Llewellyn]

It just might pet me up a little bit. I'm a little bit tired. On the wrong time zone. We've done two days of this most extraordinary show and it's really, really revivified my enthusiasm, which is not to say my enthusiasm was on the floor, but.

[Dan Caesar]

It can take battering sometimes.

[Robert Llewellyn]

We work extraordinarily hard against a lot of headwinds, I think, doing what we. What we do, particularly misinformation. And so sometimes to reconnect with the audience, the companies is incredibly powerful. And I would say. 18 shows in.

[Dan Caesar]

It's 18.

[Robert Llewellyn]

18 shows in seven years, another four later this year. 18 shows in. I think, in a way this has been, and I'm not just saying it has been the best one yet, but for a few different reasons, one of which is that we do have everything electric here. Now, that's always been our intention. Yes, but sometimes you don't get response. Out of every single sector here, we've had 35 car companies, a record.

[Dan Caesar]

Unbelievable.

[Robert Llewellyn]

But we've also had lots of things like marine.

[Dan Caesar]

Yes.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Lots of commercial vehicles, obviously the home tech, loads of micro mobility. I think I mentioned commercial vehicles. That's quite important here with the utes, the big rigs, the trucks, et cetera, even electric luggage that people ride around. But it's been, you know, it's been great. The team have really done well. And I put it down to the Australian market is a really interesting place to be at the moment, I think. I think it feels very different here to almost everywhere else that we work. Yeah, Canada is very enthusiastic, but the Canadians are very sensible. I would say Australians wear their heart on the sleeve a bit more and you can almost feel the positivity in this show. And it's been really interesting to come and spend time here and get a better understanding of what the dynamics are here. But for the benefit of those who are unaware, Australia's EV sales as a percentage of new sales is relatively low. In 2024, it was about 10%. To compare and contrast, the UK, we're about 25% at the moment.

[Dan Caesar]

And Norway, you might as well mention Norway.

[Robert Llewellyn]

About 96% in the last month, I believe. If you wanted to look at China, for example, 25%, but of a much bigger market and growing very, very fast.

[Dan Caesar]

And actually, I just read the other day, it's 51% of vehicles sold in China have a plug. So obviously the rest are plug in Hybrids. But the fact is that's setting a precedent.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Absolutely. Because of the sheer volume. And I'm sure we'll talk about China, but in Australia what's happening is quite interesting. I think everywhere has this different set of geopolitics. We're going to actually take the opportunity of this podcast, I think, to talk about all the different parts of the world where we work, because it is fascinating to see the differences. But what we're seeing in Australia is a few different things play out. They are obviously really well physically positioned as part of that kind of Asia Pacific region. Obviously China and South Korea are driving a lot of the progressive new energy vehicles, smart new energy vehicles that are coming out. And Australia is the closest right hand drive market. Yes, it's not the biggest market, but there is obviously value in it and it's a great opportunity, it's quite an easy one for Chinese companies in particular to come and test the waters and work out how they best export around the world. And that proximity has really helped. But also Australia doesn't really have its native car industry to protect, so it has nothing in the way of, there's no tariffs or barriers and additionally they've got oodles of sunshine and cheaper electricity. So a few things are playing out. But what that means is I think the enthusiasm here for EVs is more intense than I've seen everywhere else. Not to say there's no misinformation, no, not to say there's no pushback. There is, but to me it seems like a market that can grow really, really fast because the competition, this hall alone says there's 35 car companies. There's probably four or five that aren't here, to be fair. 35 car companies fighting for attention, a relatively small population base and that competition will lead to more choice and lower costs. And actually the costs of the cars in Australia is extraordinarily low. I'm going to do some work on that when I, when I get home.

[Dan Caesar]

I know because it's, I've been now whenever I was talking about the MG Cyberster this afternoon with, you know, we do these live EV reviews and because I've driven that car quite a bit, just about remember how to, how it works, how you open the doors and everything. But I, I just looked, I had the, I've done a bit of research on the prices. So the, the cost of buying that car in Australia is four and a half thousand pounds less than we pay in the UK for exactly the same car.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah, I've seen some examples that are even, even bigger gaps. And it's really, really interesting because in the UK, 25% new car sales and we'll talk about that. We rely quite heavily on the used market now. Seven out of eight car purchases in the UK are all used. So for people to access EVs in the UK, it makes sense that actually the bulk of them need to go via used. And that market's growing and I'm sure we will come on to that, but they don't necessarily need that in Australia, the used market, to quite such an extent, if the new cars are more affordable in the first place and the charging is much, much cheaper as well, may I say. So you've got this going on. They've also unlocked and opened up for bidirectional, so they recognize that potential of that. They're trying to fast track that. And actually the government have kind of, sort of started that kind of train rolling. That'll be big here because the amount of solar here. Right?

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

So that's going to be huge as well. So there's a whole range of different factors going on, but we think this is a real hotbed for all the types of technologies that we focus on. And a really, really interesting time. You might be aware. Well, you'll be aware. I'm not sure everyone will be aware that actually the emission standards here in Australia are really poor.

[Dan Caesar]

It's such a contrast.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Really poor. So they've got a new vehicle. I don't think it's a new vehicle emission standard. I think it's new vehicle.

[Dan Caesar]

Yes, I think it is new vehicle emission standard.

[Robert Llewellyn]

You might stand for something else that's not as obvious. But anyway, new emission standards. Someone's going to correct this in the notes, I'm sure, but they didn't have any emission standards and it was only them in Russia that did.

[Dan Caesar]

Yes, the two countries on earth with.

[Robert Llewellyn]

None at all that changed last year. They've also got the fcai, which is the kind of the automotive industry trade body here, also a little bit antipathetic towards electric vehicles, shall we say. And so things have changed. They don't have an end date here in terms of 2030 or 2035. They don't have a ratchet mechanism. But the NVES, the new standards should start to drive change. And I think it's that competitive element that's going to really make a big difference now. I think one of the standout differences with this show is not only the range of everything electric we've got here, but also the fact we had MP and Minister for climate Change.

[Dan Caesar]

For climate change and energy or transport? Energy. But yeah, he's very intruding. Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Came here for the second time, got on a stage with you, did a fireside chat, questions, fronted up to several hundred people in the audience was, I thought, incredibly direct. Knew his stuff.

[Dan Caesar]

Really knew his stuff. Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I don't want to offend any of the political people I work with in the uk, but he really was what we hope all politicians would be. Drives an ev. Super knowledgeable.

[Dan Caesar]

It's a fully electric home. Absolutely gets it.

[Robert Llewellyn]

He didn't mince his words. He was quite prepared to say if he didn't agree with something, no, we're not going to do that. So that was extraordinary. A good endorsement for the show. I think the audience really enjoyed that. So it's been two great days. Third great day to come, we think. Somewhere approaching 30,000 visitors. So this show is gonna have grown.

[Dan Caesar]

Mind boggling, isn't it? Because what was the first year? Three years. We've done it for three years.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I don't know actually, but last year was about 17, so.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah, about five or six the first year. I mean it was really small.

[Robert Llewellyn]

So it's got traction now. And the car companies here at least have worked out that our audience is the low funnel, as they call it in sales. It's people who've got an EV are gonna get another one.

[Dan Caesar]

Yes.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Or people are about to get one in the next 12 months. And you can go lots of shows, but we actually have all the people who are actually going to buy cars. Not tyre kickers. We do have a trick. How do we get the early mainstream in? And I have some thoughts on that and we'll come on to that. But the reality is the car companies now, we want more and more of this show. We want more of these shows. So to that end, just about to finish Sydney. We'll be back again in March next year. Yeah, we're going to do Melbourne in November. Australia has been so good to us. Honestly, I don't see why we couldn't end up doing Brisbane in the fullness of time and maybe even Perth as well. Such as the distance between the difference.

[Dan Caesar]

They're in a different country. Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

But the positivity, the warmth of the welcome, if not the weather. We always seem to bring average weather.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah, it's been a bit rainy. Actually. It hasn't. It's only rained this morning I went out. The only time I've been outside it was raining.

[Robert Llewellyn]

But I've heard since I shouldn't have brought my bikini, that's all I'm saying. I kind of overestimated how warm it would be. But it's been an amazing, amazing show and also very reflective, I think, of the fact that the world politically and economically, its axis is turning east towards China. And so to that end we are also delighted that we have agreed with Elliot Richards to launch our new YouTube channel, Everything Electric Australasia.

[Dan Caesar]

Just brilliant.

[Robert Llewellyn]

We've only done a pilot episode so far and we were fortunate to have Elliot representing Shanghai, DK Kim representing Seoul in Korea. We had Sarah Aubrey representing Sydney, Australia and Gavin Shoebridge from New Zealand as well. That was fascinating to talk about all the differences between those, those markets. And we've actually basically taken over Elliot's existing EV channel. So there's loads of Chinese cars on there you can see. But if you, if you Google Everything or YouTube Everything Electric Austerlase now you can see loads of existing content.

[Dan Caesar]

Right.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And we'll be building that on that over the, over the coming years. So please obviously sponsor to sorry, subscribe to free charge. So please subscribe to Everything Electric show and also Everything Electric Australia as well as if there wasn't enough content. But I don't think we could be more effusive about Australia. Yeah. And actually we have an election coming up here.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And it is possible that that might slow things down a little bit if the nuclear supporting Peter Dutton gets into power. But I can't understand why a country with a fusion reactor in the sky and plentiful sunshine would want to go down the nuclear path. They've made so much progress with solar. I know so much progress with big batteries now with EVs to an extent with, with, with wind turbines. They've got Snowy 2.0 coming on the hydro. They don't really need to do it. But it's not our job to interfere. We can't interfere. We wouldn't make any impact. But we just have to watch and wait and see what the election holds in April. But yeah, Australia for us is at the moment one of our favorite places to be.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah, no, it has been. Well, it's a huge privilege to be here. I just think we're very lucky to be able to do this. It is really incredible. But let's go back across the world to and blighty old Britain. I mean, I've really lost touch with what's going on in the uk but I mean, I think it's important to remind ourselves that, you know, we passed a million EVs quite a long time ago. Now we're still. And there is still growth in that, in that sector.

[Robert Llewellyn]

It's like a, it's a good news, bad news story in Britain. It's interesting because EV sales in Australia have been a little bit slow last two or three months and we always say actually don't, don't look at the quarter, don't look at the six months, look at the yearly trends and see how things are progressing on that front. The UK is actually a really, really positive story, but there is a bit of a lingering gloom in the uk economically. I think there's talk of inflation here in Australia, talk of inflation in North America and in many countries around the world. But actually in the uk, I have to admit to being frustrated. I think Brexit has crippled our economy and I think new government are not going to fix it in nine months. It's probably going to take them their full term to get it back to anything like growth. And so we'll have to see how that plays out. But at the moment it does feel like, you know, after lots of inflation, post the mini budget, Liz Truss oversaw post EV incentives being taken away, 2030 being moved back to 2035 before it goes back again to 2030, that has created a much flatter market and actually EV sales sort of flattened out for a good period of time. And I have to say, I think that Brexit is dragging on us like an anchor. There is talk as we speak of just getting a bit closer to the EU because of what's going on across the Atlantic. It seemed to be strategically advantageous to get a bit closer to the EU again, which I think would probably be good. But I think some of the damage is done, if I'm completely honest, and it will kind of continue to be a bit of an anchor for some time. But in to bring people up to speed, in February, the month just gone, 25% of new car sales were electric.

[Dan Caesar]

I know. I mean, I think that's, that's the point I want to make, that flattening sales does not mean they've stopped, it means they're not going up. So they're still at 25%, which is a huge number. It's a lot of cars.

[Robert Llewellyn]

So before, before the election last summer, the number was kind of averaging out about 15, 16% a month. And that had been like that for a couple of years. If you plot the Dutch market trajectory against the UK market trajectory from 2022 onwards, they diverged from us because we withdrew the plug in car grant. The Charger grant and so on and so forth. So they kept growing and they're now over at 30%. We stayed at sort of 15 to 16%. Ironically, they have actually now started to remove some of their subsidies.

[Dan Caesar]

Right.

[Robert Llewellyn]

But in the meantime, just the change of government last year, Even though the 2030 thing isn't absolutely sewn up, I mean, it's expected that it's definitely going to happen. It's on all the brochures, 2030, et cetera, et cetera. They're just looking at the flexibilities within the zero emission vehicle mandate in the uk. It immediately spurred some improved sales. So new car sales were constantly above 20% from about August onwards. Last year they were actually over 30% in December. January is a record month. It goes about 25%, 25% again in February. So actually you've seen us in get to more like averaging 25% on a regular basis and it's not hard to imagine that we might go over 30% at this current growth rate. Meanwhile, petrol and diesel are a little bit down.

[Dan Caesar]

They're going down, yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

So how there's bad news about EV sales when fossil fuel sales are down and some voices in the car industry are saying, well, it's due to unsustainable levels of discounting that people are buying EVs. They don't really want them, of course, Robert, just because the discounts. But obviously what's happening is a correction in the pricing of EVs. Maybe they were a little bit too expensive to begin with, let's be honest. Now, actually, they're often coming out cheaper and the reality is that people are becoming more and more aware of that. And the used EV market is also growing very fast, over 50% growth last year, because the new market feeds the used market. Right. So we have 382,000 EV sales in the UK, new ones and 188,000. So over half a million, 570,000. Our electric vehicle car park is now 1.4 million out of a total car park of 35 million. So we're still a long, long way to go.

[Dan Caesar]

Tiny.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Only sort of 30, 40, 50,000 new EV sales per month. But it is. It is the bit of the market that's growing.

[Dan Caesar]

Yes.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And yes, some people are buying it through generous salary sacrifice schemes, but quite often that's the best deal on the table. So as an individual, you're going, well, I could buy a used car, great. Or I can buy a new one via salary sacrifice. I just need to speak to my company. So of course, people are going down those two routes and there's less in the middle of the sort of private buyers. So it is actually a really, really good news story. I think that the car companies are struggling, though. It feels like they're struggling in the uk. I think it's layers of different things, Brexit being a big one, that they are just working through a very, very complex range of different problems that they have. It's costing them a lot of. A lot of money. And obviously many of the car companies still sell lots of petrol and diesel engines, and those ones in particular are struggling. Whereas the ones that we speak to are often. They're the Koreans, Chinese, Tesla. Those are the ones that are very much. We want to sell almost all pure EVs, if not all pure EVs, and that's where the action is at. And actually, in this show in Australia, what's interesting is you do see the whole VW Group is here.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Fighting against Zika and Depal.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And Xpeng and BYD and so on and so forth. But in the UK at the moment, those established brands are really not on the scene and they have basically vacated the scene and they are letting the Chinese companies, the Korean companies, Tesla, dominate sales. It's really interesting to watch and it's kind of hard to fathom why. You can only assume because they've got so much economic pressure that they can't afford to attend the shows, etc. We always think of big bellwether is, are they coming to meet all our EV drivers and potential EV drivers at our show? And some of the brands come every single time and others won't even return an email, which is, you know, to us, pretty extraordinary.

[Dan Caesar]

Well, also, because we're. I mean, that's the real confusion for me is that we'll be in touch with their PR teams about the cars. So we'll film the cars and they'll want us to film the cars and they'll make. They'll facilitate that and they'll send. Send a car to me or to Jack and we can do that, but they won't. They won't show it, they won't come to the show.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Well, it is, it is. It is frustrating and maybe it's a British thing, maybe it's a cultural thing, but, you know, at the moment in Australia, we can talk directly to the most senior people. Australian car companies in the uk, we. We pitch in, you know, our team, not me, our team will pitch into the marketing teams in the UK and they will ghost them Right. They will never hear back. They'll give us a call and say, can you feature the car?

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

The PR guys and the marketing people will ghost us. And that is unfortunately slightly frustrating. And I would argue that are they really paying attention? Because our shows, for example, are the single best way of meeting existing EV drivers and potential EV drivers. So it is a frustration, it's not a whinge, but it always strikes us as fascinating. So we've got everything Electric London coming up in April, which we're looking forward to delivering. But you're going to see, as you can tell from my utterings, you're going to see quite a lot of the Chinese and the Korean brands and Tesla there.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

You know, and hopefully we'll be able to persuade a few others to be there. I know Renault are coming, very excited about that. I think the Renault 5 is the star car of the year because I think it's the sort of car that will make even non motorheads go, oh, I like that, I want one of those. So we're very, very excited about that. And then of course Farnborough is our kind of longest standing show that takes place in October and we're really looking forward to, to delivering that. So the UK market is interesting, has actually lots of good news story, but just feels a bit more miserable. And I think it has been a hard two or three years because the predictions were probably about 30% new car sales already. That hasn't happened. Of course. The whole industry geared up around a certain level of growth which didn't materialise. And as you'll know, we did a show three years ago where lots of charger companies. Yes, lots of charger companies. And of course if there are less cars being sold, there's not enough, there's.

[Dan Caesar]

Not enough charging demands and I think we should specify this is home charging. Yeah, equipment was.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah, well, I mean it's, it's not spoken about because people don't want to, to be a self fulfilling prophecy. And I'm only speaking about it now because the EV market's growing again in the uk, but a lot of the companies that represent our exhibitor base in the UK went out of business. Yeah, a lot.

[Dan Caesar]

Yes.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And so obviously that's the dynamic that's played out. I am very optimistic. Things are growing and I think second half of year will be even better.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Because the ZEV mandate targets are more fresh in people's minds.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And what we saw last year in the UK was the Zeb mandate was the industry was expected to sell 22% of its sales would be electric. Right. And we hit about 19, 20% as an industry. There were no fines, but there was enough of a carrot and a stick, basically, to get industry to start playing the game. As some manufacturers have done a really good job, others have struggled. This year, 22% goes up to 28%. And I think the industry, industry will make it. But there are people who are saying it's impossible. And I'm thinking. I'm not sure it is impossible. It's impossible for certain brands and sometimes that's what you see in the media, isn't it? So. And so is EV's sales are struggling. You don't know your EV sales are struggling.

[Dan Caesar]

That's very important.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Others are doing very well and unfortunately, you know, journalists in the uk, we're educating those a lot, but they don't understand the difference. So UK is, I think, actually at something of a turning point, but it has been a really, really tough three years.

[Dan Caesar]

So let's quickly talk about Canada, because that has become, you know, it's one of our. Another of the highlights of the year, the showing. I mean, Vancouver, it's just very hard to go. Vancouver's boring. No, it's just the most amazing city. It's just. I mean, when we're on stage in Vancouver, I don't know if I'm sure you remember, and you look out of the massive window at the other side of the huge hall and there's mountains with snow on them in the middle of summer.

[Robert Llewellyn]

You know, I mean, with no disrespect to the Sydney Showground or to Farnborough or any of the other venues that we use, Vancouver Convention Centre is hands down the most beautiful venue I think we've ever been. Big glass windows that look across the water to the mountains.

[Dan Caesar]

And with the air taxis taking off.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I mean, it is absolutely stunning. We, I think, got something like 30 car makers at that show. That was a record until we came here to Sydney, where we've beaten that. And the Canadian market is pretty good for EVs, but it's particularly good in British Columbia.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

We have the support of BC Hydro with a state energy provider and they've helped us to develop a show there. But, you know, people from British Columbia, Vancouver, they're close to nature, so there's quite an environmental feel about the people who live there. Sort of relatively affluent part of the world as well. So it's been a very, very safe harbor for us. And that show will. Will grow again for this year. Although we are looking askance at America and saying, well, to what extent will tariffs impact Canada? Although I did see an interesting idea from a Canadian politician the other day who said, you know, well, if America's going to tariff us and make our life harder, we should let Chinese cars in.

[Dan Caesar]

Oh, really?

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah. And I did think selfishly and for the benefit of the Canadian consumer, I do think that sounds like a solid plan. Yeah. You know, because at the moment they've kind of hewed to the line America have taken. But actually, I think, you know, Canadian consumers will be looking at these Chinese made EVs and going, why can't we get hold of these? I'm sure Americans are looking at that as well.

[Dan Caesar]

But that doesn't, I've heard them, they say it all the time.

[Robert Llewellyn]

That doesn't look like a realistic prospect in the near future. So our show Just above the Border. Our show Just above the Border might be a good opportunity for some Americans to come and check out what's there as well.

[Dan Caesar]

I'm sure you're, you know, you will have spoken to them as well. But the amount of Americans I meet in Vancouver who've driven up, well, I mean, I always remember from the first year with a guy driven up from Austin because he'd come to the show in Austin, Texas, and he went, I love it, I want to go. And he drove all the way up to Vancouver, which is quite a long way.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah. I mean, Vancouver, you know, percentage of car sales is always comparable with California and often it overtakes it. So that shows you where it's at. It's really, you know, the adoption levels are very high there. And to anyone who's listening from America wants us to go back and do our live show in America, we're keen. But until we have certainty, it's difficult. And also, frankly, you know, without the Chinese car companies, the show is a hard one. It's got less of the stuff that it needs because actually sometimes you need the Chinese car companies to motivate the others to come and join in. But short of that, you know, we might do Toronto one day as well, as well as Vancouver. But now we're going back to Vancouver in September and we're looking forward to that. But it's just a little bit too early to say because Canada's got elections coming up.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

What that looks like. And maybe recent events with Trump has maybe made some Canadians think we don't want that.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

So we'll have to, we'll have to see.

[Dan Caesar]

Well, I'm sure it's made some Canadians think that. I don't know how many. Now, we, I mean, we've mentioned China a lot, but I think it is, it is. It's not even the elephant in the room. It's. It's the room. You know, it's kind of beyond anything like that. It is such a. It's such a huge power in the world, really, regardless of anything else. I mean, if nothing else. And it's kind of coming to the fore because, you know, I've. This is my personal feeling, but it feels like America is withdrawing from its, its commitments around the world and China is definitely going to expand. And it's. I mean, I'm not. And I'm not saying this because I think it's good. I'm saying this because I think it's happening. I don't know.

[Robert Llewellyn]

You know, there's a. There's a meme I saw online which said something along the lines of CIA discovers Chinese plan to let America kind of destroy itself, basically. And I think it's interesting to watch. To what extent is America going through something of a trauma in that it has been the powerhouse.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah, all our lives, for our whole lives.

[Robert Llewellyn]

It has absolutely towered over my youth, my latter years. It's been the country I've always looked to as the, I guess, the beacon.

[Dan Caesar]

Of hope and humanity, incredible innovation and invention and manufacturing and doing amazing.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And now I think it's a reaction to the fact that China is overtaking it in almost all of the technology space. So it's not just EVs, it's things like deep sea. Yeah, I think that is almost like a. It's going through a reaction to that and it's sort of withdrawing, as you say. And China is extraordinarily well placed and they have played a long game, a patient game. They've built up the battery supply chain. While others doubted that the new technology would come through. New technology does come through. While others have distracted themselves with the possibility of hydrogen because it's more similar to the sort of fuels that they used to. China has just known what's going to work. They've got on with it and now they're kind of reaping the rewards. So in this exhibition hall today, we walked around and did a press tour. Yesterday we had over 100 people do the press tour. Best attended one we've ever had.

[Dan Caesar]

Yes, it was.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And we talked through all the cars and there was an amazing Audi S6 on the Audi stand and the Volkswagen Group are here and they're doing Some fantastic stuff. They've got a new brand called on ev, which is about helping consumers. Even things like future value guarantees and battery. Really, really phenomenal stuff. So I'm not doing them down. The Audi S6 is one of the sexiest cars I've ever seen. But then we saw Koda. Skoda cars are nice, but they're probably a little bit more like cars used to be.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And then we span round onto the Zika stand and I saw three or four cars that just blew my mind. They look so modern. And actually Zika and Tesla have been the two busiest stands here.

[Dan Caesar]

Oh, have they? All right, I didn't know that. Right, okay.

[Robert Llewellyn]

A couple of the Zika cars are just unbelievable. And then you've got some great cars over at Xpeng.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Some great cars at BYD and so on and so forth. And the reality is that these cars are extremely high quality. Like you've reviewed a lot of them. It's not fair to say that they're lesser cars.

[Dan Caesar]

No, some of them are as good.

[Robert Llewellyn]

As the German cars, who I think is the ultimate compliment.

[Dan Caesar]

Right, yeah. Oh, they are definitely interior quality. And tech is unbelievable.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Better, which is when I now look at what car I might get. I actually tech plays a huge role in that. Not how it drives or how it looks, but actually how it works. A bit like if I was going to change my iPhone, I really hesitate to move away from an iPhone because I'm used to the operating system. And in the case of, you know, let's say Tesla, for example, used to the supercharging network, then that becomes a big part of the decision making process. Well, you know, with no disrespect, VW has had some issues with its software, for example, in the id, id 3 and id 4, whereas you get in some of the Chinese cars and the tech is off the scale. Good. So it is really, really interesting.

[Dan Caesar]

And also, I mean, we got to mention it, the cost is. I mean, it's less reflective in the uk, but it's still cheaper. I mean, if you're buying a Chinese car here, people in England will weep how cheap it is, because, I mean.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I think I'm going to get the number wrong. So I might put what the right number is in the notes, but as I understand it, so we sold 382,000 new EVs in the UK, making us the biggest market in Europe, just ahead of Germany. Germany's population is 14 million, so that's quite a big deal. That makes the UK more attractive as an export. Option to China. But for example, I think China sold about 2.8 million battery electric vehicles last year.

[Dan Caesar]

That's in China.

[Robert Llewellyn]

In China.

[Dan Caesar]

Oh, yeah, exactly.

[Robert Llewellyn]

That's scale. And when you get scale, you get cost reduction. And ultimately they are now looking to leverage that skill, leverage that cost reduction into all of these other countries. And so it looks inevitable, I think. What's going to happen, they're going to get cheaper, the tech's going to get better, they're going to win more and more customers. And as we've said many times, this is a game of musical chairs. And for those that are putting their head in the sand, I think it's going to be pretty brutal.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

If I'm honest.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah, no, absolutely right. So now, the other thing you've been doing, which I think is amazing, and I was at the launch of it, but I know about it, is Electric Vehicles uk, which is critically important. And I mean, I would like to quickly discuss that with you. I mean, does it. I feel like it complements other electric vehicle organizations in the uk, rather than dominates them or pushes them out the way. I mean, you're working with them. But this is to basically counter the kind of. The more. Well, just the ridiculous negative stuff about electric vehicles and renewable energy and clean technology in general.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Well, the genesis of it was that we were finding misinformation to be a bigger and bigger problem. Selfishly, it starts to impact our business.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

We are mythbusters, are we not? You know, we're used to doing that. And so we couldn't really sit on our hands. And I have sort of partly political, definitely a communications background, and we felt that we couldn't just sit back and.

[Dan Caesar]

Let it sit back.

[Robert Llewellyn]

So some. Some of our audience will remember we started the Stop Burning Stuff Patreon page, and by the way, the contributions to that are still vitally important.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

We then started to fight misinformation with our good friend Quentin Wilson. Yeah, we definitely made an impact, but it was from a financial perspective. Goliath. And so, as you remember, at the Aurora conference in Oxford, Greg Jackson from Oxford said, you know, how can we turn this into something more corporate? Stop Burning stuff doesn't sound like a just stop wheel.

[Dan Caesar]

Yes.

[Robert Llewellyn]

You know, and we can get the whole industry behind one. Cause I think the industry had struggled in the UK a little bit economically, and so everyone had been getting their heads down, but they become quite siloed. And we basically turned Stop Burning stuff into Electric Vehicles UK to bring the whole industry together. And that's what the first six months has been about bringing the whole industry together, not duplicating effort.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

But understanding what everyone does and trying to be the umbrella organization that coordinates effort. There is some amazing work going on and I will name check, for example, Eva England, which is a driver's association, for example, as one really good example. We're not looking to supplant.

[Dan Caesar]

No, no.

[Robert Llewellyn]

What they do. We're actually just looking to be in touch with them, understand what they do and let them get on with it while we help out. And that's been really amazing. Six months, bringing people together.

[Dan Caesar]

Right.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Some people are very suspicious when you try and do that, you know.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

We're not charging people fully charged. Show and Octopus in year one are funding that activity. But it's brought me back to some of my old skill set, I suppose, which is political and communication.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And we now have an organization called Electric Vehicles uk, which is going to be a separate organization. We've set it up in fully charged or limited, just to get it rolling, but it's going to be a separate entity. That ultimately was our gift to the industry to help fight misinformation. But more than that, stop focusing just on the misinformation, Continue to fight it, but actually spend 80% of our time reinventing the narrative.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Because we get very distracted by, oh, there's a fire here, you know, there's a car park that's collapsed here. All rubbish, by the way, you know, and actually it's very easy to play that game and actually forget. The real game is to reinvent the positive narrative because there's plenty of positive things to say. So we've made real progress bringing the industry together. The next phase is that we will be writing a membership prospectus and that will be available in early April for companies to join formally. That will give us a fighting fund, effectively from September, so we can do more and more activity. But just to give you an example of a couple of things that we've already done, we've set up a website, electricvhicles.expert or electricvhicles.uk right. Which isn't just about fully charged show content, it's about all content in one place. So we as an industry can send interested parties to that. It's got all the information you could ever need about electric vehicles. More recently, we commissioned a report with a company, great think tank, called New Automotive.

[Dan Caesar]

Yes.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And the report is called the Cost of Driving Electric. And for us, the single biggest barrier is cost. Yes. Of course, there are concerns about charging and There are other factors, but if you can communicate the cost benefits of electric vehicles, you will win more minds by doing that than any other single action. And so what we felt it was important to do was get a holistic view of the total cost of ownership. And that 32 page report we've just published is so instructive, so powerful, and now our job is not to abandon that, our job is to put that in the hands of as many people as we can around the world. And just some quick findings, basically, over the lifetime. Sorry, let's start at the beginning. 80% of people can save using an EV.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

This is no surprise to us.

[Dan Caesar]

No, no.

[Robert Llewellyn]

But that message isn't out there.

[Dan Caesar]

Isn't out there.

[Robert Llewellyn]

You speak to people today, they will say, EVs are more expensive. We now need to say no. We don't need to be polite, say no, they are cheaper and they will save you money. 80% of people can save. Obviously people with driveways are in a stronger position than people without and I don't want to leave them behind. So that's important too. But the second part is over the lifetime, sorry, the term of ownership, which is three or four or five years within the report, the report is very, very detailed. People are saving almost £6,000 over that term. That's on one car. If you have two cars, you might be saving almost £12,000. Right. If you run a fleet, imagine how much you might save.

[Dan Caesar]

And that's why the fleets are.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Fleets are crucial. And then used EV sales, which is a growing market in the uk, now that the new market's feeding the used market, you can get great cars for maybe somewhat 5k, but more at the 10k mark. Great cars that are going to last for a very long time now, we know that for certain. And actually, on average, those used cars are 2,800 pounds cheaper than the petrol and diesel.

[Dan Caesar]

Right. A petrol diesel car of the same age and mileage and all that to it. Right. Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

So now we can go back and we can say, no, get an electric car, it's cheaper. And actually, let's not get distracted by all the noises off, let's hammer that message home until everyone in the UK and everyone in the world understands it. And one of the things that's interesting that's happening is that we are sort of joining hands with people like the Electric Vehicle Council in Australia.

[Dan Caesar]

Right.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Hopefully elbil, which is the Norwegian EV association, with people in America to create, with the E mobility guys in Europe as well, to create an overarching body that actually can really push back as a whole. Getting organized, basically. Yeah, getting organized, getting vocal. Because there are tons of Benefits of battery EVs cost being only 1 and we need to own the narrative. We need to work on that. So it's been a privilege to, to work on that. And as I say, there's much more to. To come. It's nice to have two jobs. I mean, you know, I'm like, I'm.

[Dan Caesar]

Not busy enough because you're so lazy when you're, when you run free job.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I don't know.

[Dan Caesar]

I don't even want to ask how you manage to do it all. It's not drugs. I just want to say that it's not drugs. Although there's a very small amount of beer.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Anti arthritis as drugs.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I don't think that's giving me energy.

[Dan Caesar]

It is our. It is. I can't. This is why I can't believe. And it does. I'm not altogether thrilled about this because it just makes me feel even older. But it's the 15th birthday of fully charged show this year so we're gonna have a little, I don't quite know, I don't think we know quite what some sort of celebration, sort of June, July time for that. But it is, what is really critical about it is the, the change that's happened in that 15 years. That's what I really want to reflect. You know that in 15 years ago you could buy a, you could. I wouldn't suggest it was a good idea, but you could buy a Mitsubishi I, me or a Tesla Roadster or probably a Citroen. You might be. By 2010 you could probably have got the Citroen equivalent of the Mitsubishi. I don't know what else it was pre Nissan Leaf pre.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I think you're right. 2010, you had the incredible foresight to set it up. It for me was amazing when I discovered what you'd done because I was going to loads of business conferences where everyone was saying, oh, battery Great, aren't battery EVs great? Aren't solar great? And I was like, kind of need to get out and tell the world about this. Right. And you'd already started to do that. So when we met, you know, back in, in 2016, I thought, well, I'm really passionate about this. I drive an ev. I've been promoting these technologies and I think it was just, I don't know, happenstance that we met. Right. I feel very fortunate that it happened and thank you very much for giving me the kind of latitude to Kind of develop the business over that time. But I think it almost splits into two sections. You've got the first sort of seven years, I suppose, before I was involved, where you'd built this incredible thing and we're really standing on your shoulders and you're right, what, what was there at that point in 2010? Bugger all.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah. Very, very little.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Then we did the first live events and then we had about. There was about 10, 12 decent cars at that point. We could probably name all of them.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

The Zoe, the Leaf, model S, model X, et cetera.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah. Because that was pre Model three. Yes, it was.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah, it was pre Model three. And so, you know, at that point, you know, that we entered a new phase as an organization and that's taken us through now. We've delivered 18 of these events around the world in seven years. The YouTube channel now has well over a million subscribers. I think it's just about to go 1.1 million. We have the second channel, we have a third channel and lots of other interests besides. And what we would like to do on our 15th birthday is have an event for hundreds of people, hopefully.

[Dan Caesar]

Right.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Which is part retrospective how far we've come and part how does fully charge evolve over the next 15 years. I know it's terrifying to map forward to 2040 and sometimes a bit tired after show might not feel like doing that, but you know, how are we going to be relevant, grow all those things?

[Dan Caesar]

And it'd be fascinating between now and then to sort of research what potentially could happen in the next 15 years. Because I think it's quite remarkable what could. I mean, it's so much around batteries.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Well, Mercedes Benz talking about a solid state battery with 600 miles range by 2026. You know, I mean, that's the thing. All these things that we're talking about are going to get better and better, more and more efficient, cheaper and cheaper. So that's all good. I'm very, very confident about where the future is. But we will have a big event. We will invite all of our patrons.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

For fully charged show and stop burning stuff. We'll invite all of our investors, all of our clients and other people. So I think it could be quite a big, big party. We will be looking for a sponsor for that, I have to say, to defray from costs like any sensible business person would do. But I'm really looking forward to that because I think we've got something to announce, I think on that day as well, about how we, as I say, remain relevant and perhaps even we increase our influence over the next 15 years. I mean, I'm not feeling that energetic right now at the back end of a show in Australia, it's hard to think of, but it is, you know, for us it's been an amazing journey and we want it to continue for another 15 years.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah. No, very good. Other platforms then. So, I mean, we're still mainly. You're like 95 of all our activities are on YouTube.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dan Caesar]

Which is, you know, and I mean, every time, every now and then I'll hear stuff about where people spend most of their time on screens, looking at video. It's YouTube. It's far and away the most common. Even though people talk about TikTok and all the rest of it, it is still there.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah. So we're on. We're on X. Yeah. Everything Electric fully charges on X. Yeah. We also have the EV UK is on X as well. We're not quite as active there. The. How do I put this nicely? It's become a slightly more hostile environment, I think, for some of the things that we talk about, but we're still there. I'm personally enjoying threads because no one follows me and I can just talk and no one responds. And I have to say I find that incredibly liberating. I know you're on bluesky.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah. Which is definitely. I mean, without question is growing and has got. It went from there's no one here to, oh, there's quite a lot of people here and quite a lot of people I followed on what was Twitter.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dan Caesar]

And certainly this. The science people and the environmental people, they're definitely gone. They fled to blue sky.

[Robert Llewellyn]

We do have a very good Instagram account. We're on TikTok as well. I had someone run up to me at the show this weekend go, oh, my God, I love you. I love your LinkedIn content. I thought she was quite odd because we, you know, you were very nice.

[Dan Caesar]

You're very good on LinkedIn.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I'm not good at. So that's actually taken on a lot of people have, I think, abandoned X and gone to LinkedIn as well. So I think we're kind of a multi platform business. I think that's the. That's the phrase. I'm sure there'll be more platforms, but whatever ways we can reach out. But on YouTube, fundamentally, we've got the podcast on Mondays on Everything Electric. We've got a second episode on Everything Electric, typically about homes or microbials every Wednesday.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And then the fully charged show on Tuesdays and Thursdays and Then everything electric, Australasia, they will, will, will announcement how that's going to work, how that's going to kind of work into our plans in the near future as well. But yeah, I mean, we're doing our absolute level best to keep the good news stories coming out in the world, but it's quite often dominated by negative social media content.

[Dan Caesar]

We've got one last thing that we have announced but we should mention, which is Zap Heap, which is. It's great. I mean, you know, it's going to be a tough ask to raise the money that we need. And I've had a couple. I just wanted to say because I've had a couple of questions through things like Blue sky threads, you know, why do you need so much money? And I just want to say, you know, because we. It's an expensive show to make, so it will involve probably 40 or 50 people in both crew cast, you know, every, the production, everything. It's not us and that. And we will do it at a fraction of the price that the old TV show was made at. But we have. If we're going to show two teams building something in a location out of junk and then testing it. Yeah, it's going to cost money, but I think, I reckon we can do it. But they're most. The thing I kind of want to really push is the. What we always wanted to do on tv, Scrappy, which was. And we did it very. We did it one or two times where we essentially had an audience for the test.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dan Caesar]

And it was a really difficult thing for us to arrange to do that. It was. It just didn't fit in with the way the show was made and also we didn't have the kind of setting to do it. Well, we have the setting to do it here. So we're going to have. If it all goes ahead, we're going to have the test live at the Farnborough show in October, which is. I mean, I am so pumped. I'm pumped and stoked about that. I mean, I just think that could be. But I have no idea what they're going to make at the moment. We don't know what the teams are going to make, but.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah, well, I mean, I think with your, with your background on scrap heap, it's really been interesting. Like we had the British Consulate talking here last night, our Sydney show, really referencing the power of scrap heap.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And creativity through technology.

[Dan Caesar]

Yeah. And I think. I don't want to, I mean, I think I want to point out that we didn't we didn't suggest.

[Robert Llewellyn]

No, no, absolutely.

[Dan Caesar]

Came out of the blue to us. Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

It, as a, as a. As a program, inspired a huge amount of people and the amount of engineers you speak to now who say, I was a big fan of it, or I watched it with my father and obviously ladies watched it as well and.

[Dan Caesar]

Some people watch it with their mothers.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I should say quickly before I'm cancelled. But it had a huge, huge impact, a huge resonance. It's very, very relevant. I think it's more relevant to the modern world. It's actually reusing material stuff. Yeah. And obviously we've talked about kind of revivifying it and we haven't been able to get a broadcaster interested in doing that. So sometimes you just got to take the bull by the horn. So we've launched a Kickstarter campaign to enable us to launch a special pilot that will enable us to create an episode and then do the live test. So probably 40 minutes of the 60 minute show will be filmed in advance and then we'll do the live reveals and test at Everything Electric show in Farnborough in October. And we're really, really looking forward to that. But, you know, as a small business, you know, for those of you that think that we are, you know, rolling in money and we have huge profits to call up, it simply isn't true.

[Dan Caesar]

It's just about survival.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I would say I'm a pretty ingenious business person, but it is more about survival. So when we do anything like this, frankly, we can't afford to do it at a loss.

[Dan Caesar]

No, no.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And we also want to do it to a standard. That means that maybe it's not embarrassing, maybe we can take it to a TV company or a streamer and say, actually, have you thought about bringing this back? I have found in years of launching new things that most people you speak.

[Dan Caesar]

To lack they can't see what you're talking about.

[Robert Llewellyn]

They lack an attraction. And so when we've shown people the live shows, they kind of go, I.

[Dan Caesar]

Get it, I get it.

[Robert Llewellyn]

This is the same thing. We need to be able to show them how the format works. So we have the two teams ready to go. People who have been familiar to you from the fully charged show over the years.

[Dan Caesar]

We've done, yeah, amazing teams.

[Robert Llewellyn]

We have some of the originals who worked on Scrap Peep helping us out, but it's going to be all electric, it's going to be zapeap. And we're very, very enthused about bringing it back. Also, those who do contribute, there's some quite nice packages and benefits that they get with, with those contributions as well. So I'm, I'm really looking forward to, to bringing it back. Yeah, but yeah, we, we, you know, these things do not emerge out of thin air.

[Dan Caesar]

No.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And I think most people who, who list this will understand these things cost money, particularly in the modern environment with every venue, energy cost, transportation, everything else is very, very expensive. So I know we're, we're really looking forward to do it because I do think it's a really good, it's a really good synergy. So I was trying to avoid using consultant speak.

[Dan Caesar]

I failed. No, you can do it, but you're allowed now.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Really good, really synergistic with fully charged show and everything electric. And also it gets young people interested and I think it will be a fantastic project to run and yeah, hopefully it will lead to a return of what we believe will be zapeap in the longer term. But yeah, we're not doing it to get rich. I mean, my God, if I was trying to get rich, I would have, I'd be working for the fossil fuel industry. No, I wouldn't be doing this. This is something. Another passion project because we believe it's the right thing to do.

[Dan Caesar]

Very much so. Anyway, Dan Brill, because look, the crew knackers. Yeah, we've got to let them go. We've got one more day to go. I'm really looking forward to it. It's been a blast, this show. It really has been amazing. So thank. Well, I want to thank you for all the incredible work you've done.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Well, I've got to stop you and thank you for starting it. But also to thank all the team. There's about 35 or 40 people across the business who make this happen and believe me, they are some of the best people. They are incredible, incredible people.

[Dan Caesar]

Well, they put up with me for.

[Robert Llewellyn]

One thing, and me and it's a startup and it's very, very, very. We are extremely fortunate. And also just thank you to the patrons, thank you to our investors. Honestly, if people hadn't invested in the business, we didn't have patrons, didn't do.

[Dan Caesar]

It, we wouldn't have made it.

[Robert Llewellyn]

We wouldn't have made it. I think by the time we've done 18 of these live shows now, I think by the time we've done 30, they will be perfect because we're iterating really quickly, but we are doing something completely unknown. A YouTube events crossover is completely unknown and we've got a lot. Right. Much more than we've got wrong but there are things that come up like Covid for example.

[Dan Caesar]

Yes that was quite different.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Ukraine inflation EV misinformation so we have had to battle through these. But what we're working on I think basically is converting thousands upon thousands of people to these technologies and hopefully sharing those stories from around the world saying these things are possible. And so I'm very proud to work on it and I'm looking forward to the next 15 years with you. Robert.

[Dan Caesar]

Excellent. Thank you. I'm now going to go and have a nap anyway thanks for watching this episode. Please do tell your friends about out the fully charged show podcast and the fully charged show and everything electric and now everything electric Australasia we edit that. Well that's going to be amazing. Everything Electro Australia but as always do subscribe if you haven't. That's it as always if you have been really seriously thank you for watching.