← Everything Electric Podcast
Everything Electric Podcast
Inside Story Behind Jaguar’s Unapologetic Relaunch & What Happens Next...|Fully Charged Show Podcast
00:41:07
In this exclusive episode of the Fully Charged Show Podcast, Jaguar Managing Director Rawdon Glover shares the story behind the brand’s controversial 2024 rebrand. Glover gives us the inside track on why the iconic British marque halted UK car...
Loading summary
Transcript53 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
- [00:05]
B
Hello and welcome to another episode of the fully charged show podcast, where today I am delighted to be joined by Rain Glover, Managing Director of Jaguar. Now, in case you haven't been following the Jaguar story closely, a little recap. So right now, Jaguar has stopped selling new cars in the UK ahead of a relaunch as an all electric and ultra high end brand in 2026. At that point it will sell the majority of its vehicles for more than £100,000, starting with a four door GT that was closely related to the Type 00 that was revealed to the world in December 2024. That reveal followed a teaser which didn't feature any cars. And that teaser was used to relaunch the brand. It was met with a litany of divided opinions ranging from outrage to rapturous applause. Design director Jerry McGovern put it like Jaguar has no desire to be loved by everybody. Some may love it now, some may love it later, and some may never love it. And that's okay because that's what fearless creativity does. So what happens next? Well, that's what I'm hoping Vaughd and Glover can tell us all about. But first, a very quick advert break.
- [01:16]
C
We've teamed up with Duracell Energy to celebrate their brilliant ecosystem of home energy products and their platinum home owner offer by giving away a Duracell Bunny to win. Simply watch to the end and answer.
- [01:28]
B
A question about fully charged Rawdon. Thank you so much for giving up your afternoon today. We're having this conversation on 21 May 2025 and I think I'm right in saying that you have literally. Jaguar Land Rover has literally just clocked its strongest full year profit in a decade.
- [01:46]
A
Correct. Yeah. Despite all of the headwinds that are affecting us all and some manufacturers in particular. Yeah, we've delivered our best ebit, our cash position is positive. That's been a four and a half year journey to get to that point. So, yeah, really pleased that all of the various strategies across the brands absolutely coming together and I think it's a very positive sign for the whole organization, particularly at a time when it's so tough. So I think that's why it's really pleasing for us.
- [02:16]
B
Yeah, well, I've just been at the Financial Times future the car event and there's definitely a sentiment of there's quite a lot to contend with at this particular point in time.
- [02:25]
A
So never a dull moment.
- [02:26]
B
Never a dull moment indeed. And especially not when it comes to the relaunch of the Jaguar brand. So just in case anyone who's listening or watching this podcast has been under a rock for the past six or seven months or so, can you give us a whistle stop tour? What is the type 00? What is the Jaguar relaunch of the brand?
- [02:47]
A
Sure, yeah, great question. So at the end of November, we launched a tease film. It's been called a commercial. It's not a commercial actually. We didn't put any paid advertising behind it, we just put it on our own channels, which was really designed to do a few things, really. It was designed to get people interested and get people talking about what is going on at Jaguar. And I guess the purpose really was to try and get as much interest and as many eyeballs as possible for an event happening in my Miami about two weeks later. So there was about two week gap in between sort of launching the brand, if you like, and then unveiling the design concept that we did on the 3rd of December in Miami. In terms of our intent, really it's just a signal that Jaguar is going to be going into a bold new direction. The fact that it has a fully electrified future. The we wanted to introduce, which is what we did at Miami, we wanted to introduce the new design language. So if we're going to take Jaguar back to probably where it's been for most of its life, most of its 90 year history, into those sort of elevated price points, very much back into the luxury space, you need to have a super compelling product. And what we were showcasing, Kaysiga Miami is, yeah, the new design language, what can you expect all future Jaguars to look like?
- [04:14]
B
And so on the 3rd of December, the type 00, which is a concept design, was launched to the world. And it was phenomenal because there had been so many eyeballs on the brand based on what had happened two weeks previously. The reaction to which we'll come on to In a moment, 3rd of December, we see this, this extraordinary car. How closely does that relate to what we will see in the real world?
- [04:37]
A
Pretty closely, I think at jlr, I think we've got a very strong history, a Jerry in particular, of having a very strong lineage between a concept car and the production vehicle. If we think of Defender as an example, it was very, very close. So, and just from a personal perspective, I wouldn't have felt comfortable showing a design vision as a signpost of where Jaguar was going if then everyone was going to go, well, where's all the joy gone? Where's, you know, where is, you know, if you had that usual thing which happens with many manufacturers because by the time you then go through very exacting process of manufacturing, crash testing, aero, all that sort of stuff, quite often the sort of. The stuff you really love about the concept cars is diluted. But yeah, we're really confident that when people see the production car that they won't be disappointed. I think in terms of its, you know, the face of Jaguar is very clear. The surfacing that we have, the very pure, simple. But it's extremely sophisticated in terms of the lines and actually how all the intersections work is going to be absolutely reminiscent. The fact that it's got those dramatic proportions that every Jaguar should have. If you think about all of the kind of iconic Jaguars of our past, they similarly had those dramatic proportions. Think about the xjs with its beautifully elongated bonnet. Again, that's a characteristic that also they share with type 00 and the strike, we call it the strikethrough, which is that sort of horizontal device that we use at the rear of the vehicle. So there are a number of elements where I think people would sit and go, yeah, actually that is absolutely a four door GT version of what they've seen in type 00. So, yeah, we're really confident, I have to say.
- [06:24]
B
So I, we met a few weeks ago when I came to Oxford Road, so Jaguar Classic Works and I saw myself type 00 for the first time and I was blown away. I didn't expect to be because I'd seen everything on social media, I'd seen it all on YouTube, so I thought I'd see it in. And when it was revealed, it was that architectural quality that's achieved by that surfacing that was genuinely breathtaking. It was extraordinary, honestly. Like just totally, totally mind blowing. But I think a key thing that's emerged in all of this is that Jaguar's design language is around being bold, copy nothing. I think that's in some of the marketing language. And I'm curious to understand how you balance that desire to be different and to be bold and to make a statement and some of the engineering practicalities, because I know that if I don't ask this, our audience are going to. It's very long.
- [07:17]
A
It is, yeah.
- [07:19]
B
How practical does it make it in terms of those, those bold proportions?
- [07:24]
A
Well, I think a different way of answering the question is if I think of EVs generally, and there are clearly exceptions to the rule, but they'd become almost become a commodity. And whether it's the battery power or the charging speed or the range, and even the design is very homogeneous because they're all Searching for the similar thing, they're trying to get over range. So they tend to be very similar looking. They've got a big battery stack, so the big battery stack adds height. So most EVs are quite tall because there's no engine, they're cab forward. So they all have very short front proportions, which actually, in terms of for a car that needs drama, for a car that has presence, having a really short front just doesn't work in that context. They're also very, very often they look like they've been designed in a wind tunnel. Maybe they have, because that's how they get okay, that's how they're searching for that range that's required. So for us, I think we looked at all of those things and felt, if Jaguar is going to reinvent itself as an EV only brand, first and foremost, we can't have any, you know, we can't have any dilution of the design integrity, first and foremost. And it's great to hear your reaction to the vehicle. It's got to be beautiful and it's got to elicit a reaction of thinking, actually, this is just an incredibly piece of automotive design that I want to own. Because at the price points we're at, it's not about all of the rational reasons why you do car purchase. It's much more about that irrational desire and how can we create that sense of desire, because nobody needs to spend over £100,000 or £120,000 on a motorcycle. You do so because you want to. You do so because it's, you know, being in that vehicle makes you feel something. So for us, actually almost trying to, you know, rip up all of the rule books and say, well, this is how Jaguar's going to do it, which I think is entirely in the DNA of the brand. That sense of, okay, we are going to defy convention, but not in a very literal sense. But once we then decided, sort of we have a design that we are all 100% behind, it was then a case of, right, we now need to find a platform. Because those proportions are so unique, we knew it wouldn't work on any of our platforms, but it didn't work on anybody else's platform. So we said, we'll have our own unique platform. And then the challenge then goes to the engineers to say, right, okay, team, we now need to stay as true as possible to that design in terms of proportions, surfacing, the ride height to deliver with the integrity. Goes back to your first question about how do you make sure it's not Just a design and that's effectively the work that the engineering team have been doing for the last two or three years. And there's some, you know, and we're probably not too long being able to tell these stories. When we unveil the production car we'll, we'll give an insight into well, how have they done that? But we have done some unique things. So for example, we didn't used to take Clays into the, into the wind tunnel. That's not something we'd normally do but because we knew we wanted to keep the very sheer proportions, but we knew it had to have an outstanding level of CD otherwise we wouldn't be able to achieve the range that we need because it's still an EV and range is still a rational issue we need to address. And our first production car will have in excess of 700 km of range. So you know, we're able to do that and give it those really statuesque wheels that it stands on which are also kind of really part and parcel of how we give that car presence and drama and that real sense of, you know, I, I was lucky enough to present the car in, in Asia at the weekend in Japan and one of the questions I was asked was, you know, what are you most looking, you know, what do you, what are you excited about in terms of the car? And I just said to him as well, imagine that car in your rearview mirror. Imagine seeing that with those incredibly wafer thin headlights, the proportions, the scale. I said that's just going to be so exciting and, and to be, you know, to, to see them on the road looking like nothing else. And I guess there's a couple of little moments for me. You have those kind of moments of inspiration that just really fire you up to think, no, this is absolutely the direction to go. We did a clinic here actually in the design studio about 18 months ago. We had lots of competitor cars and maybe eight or ten had all of our vehicles, some really, really competent vehicles, ice and non ice and we had them all found out. We had lots of customers. We flew clients in from China actually to come and it was just post Covid and we couldn't. China wasn't, you know, we weren't able to go into China. So they came to us and I just stood for a moment on the mezzanine level and looked down on all of those cars were, you know, really competent cars. And I looked at our vehicles and I guess the one thing that says they just don't look like anything else that's out in, you know, in there. And they weren't. Because actually it is really difficult to achieve those proportions, those intersections. And whilst it's not for everybody, and I think that's, you know, something that our, you know, Jerry, our chief creative officer, you know, he'll often say that actually doesn't. Doesn't matter. We don't need to be loved by everybody. In fact, you should never try. Yeah. And be loved by everybody, because if you do that, you. You're going to end up with something that's really vanilla. So actually having something that perhaps does polarize. And we've seen, you know, we've seen it in our clinics. You know, we had, whenever you clinic, a vehicle. One of the processes, you know, is, you know, rate this car one to ten in terms of, you know, whether it's a car you could see yourself owning, you know. And we had. We had a number of people say, well, it's one or a two. But we had the highest number of people, say nine or a 10. And this is the new Jaguar audience. This is the, well, new Jaguar audience. This is the audience that probably has the wherewithal to go to the price points we're going to be operating at. So that polarizing sense is actually not a bad thing to my mind, because I'd much rather. Because we're not going to be a brand that chase volume. We'll have requirements, but it's about value. And I'd much rather have a group of people that really get what we're doing and really love what we're doing rather than everybody goes, yeah, that's okay. Yeah, that's okay. It's nice. But, you know, we don't want nice.
- [13:59]
B
We don't want nice. And I think there are so many things that I want to pick up on there. Firstly, just return to the point that there are so many cars that look as if they've been designed in a wind tunnel. And I think that's almost certainly true. You can understand the computational fluid dynamics that would have happened to center around that 0.2 drag count value that we see in many, many cars. But curious that actually you did design it in the wind tunnel to some.
- [14:20]
A
Degree, but with a different intent. Yeah, it's like actually these things are really important. Retain those. And that was. That's really the essence of what the engineering team have been doing for the last three years is actually. And when I first came into the role, I was really intrigued as to how the engineering team would be embracing that, because I was thinking, oh, is it Like, God, do we really have to? Because it makes their job super hard.
- [14:42]
B
Yeah, I can imagine.
- [14:44]
A
But actually, you won't find, you know, if I'm thinking of the team in my head, that you won't find a group of people who get what Jaguar needs to do and are more committed than actually that, that engineering team that are tirelessly looking at ways of saying, right, no, it's all about retaining the purity, keeping the joy and making sure we find really innovative solutions for the clients to make sure that actually when it comes, we look just like that. So, yeah, it's, it's been fun.
- [15:10]
B
And I also want to pick up on this idea of a new audience and some of the price point. But before we do, I've got to ask about the launch because there was the video that came out two weeks before the car was revealed and that video was extremely bold. It didn't feature any actual cars, which a lot of people cause upset for whatever reason. But anyway, that's, that's by the by. Did you expect that ruckus? Were you ready for it?
- [15:37]
A
Yeah, I think I was prepared for a few things I was definitely prepared for. Questions are, okay, around. You're moving away from your, where you are today. Are you moving away from your heritage? The fact that we were brand led. So it's not all about, okay, here's a car, Jaguar's change us. Perhaps I was, I was prepared for that, but I was still a little bit surprised at the level of kind of, how can you, how can you relaunch a brand without G shog car? It's like, well, it's quite easy.
- [16:04]
B
Just don't put a car in it.
- [16:06]
A
You know, the individuals we chose to feature in that, in that, in that film were there because they look like nothing else. They look like no other. They are original. They, you know, they are almost, I guess, a striking, yeah, they're very striking illustration of. Well, actually the brand is going to be like no other and it is going to challenge convention. So that's why they were chosen, I think. You know, see, getting you that was not something that was expected, it wasn't part of the plan. But in a strange way that probably helped us because actually what it, what it gave us is even more eyeballs on what we, what we're actually going to do. Now, maybe some of those people don't necessarily like what we've done, but actually that's okay because there's tens or hundreds of millions more people that have actually seen and read about us as a consequence of Creating that sort of intrigue. So I guess that is that, you know, the classic Oscar Wilde quote is, there's only one thing worse than being talked about, and that's not being talked about. And in all seriousness, you know, for Jaguar, we. We absolutely do need to reinvent ourselves, because just continuing as we are is. It's not. Isn't an option.
- [17:15]
B
Yeah.
- [17:16]
A
And it wasn't, you know, it wasn't current. It wasn't spoken about. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't a brand that was in the public consciousness in, you know, so taking it to that place and actually getting people engaging and interested in what we're doing again, intrigued as to what we're doing again, is absolutely the right thing for us to be doing.
- [17:35]
B
Well, I think, certainly from a PR marketing campaign, it was absolutely successful. And I just. In preparing for this interview, I was thinking, I wonder what your management WhatsApp group was like that weekend. Pretty busy, I suspect it was.
- [17:52]
A
It was a very crazy. It was a crazy two months, if I think about the month, you know, from. From sort of mid November, pretty probably up until Christmas. Yeah, it was. And that's, you know, it's made us a really tight group. You know, I've been asked a few times about, you know, you know, holding a nerve and that sort of stuff, but actually, there's a lot of people that have real strength of conviction and real belief in terms of what we're doing, in terms of the strategy, because it isn't. It's not a random act. It's not like, well, we've just done that with act and thinking. We. We did this tease film because we wanted people to be. Have as many eyeballs us. When we stepped out and presented the vehicle in. In December, and I think in December, you. You definitely saw the. The narrative and the rhetoric changing. It started to soften. There's some more quiet, more learned voices coming up saying, actually, hold on a minute, maybe there's something in this. I think it's an interesting phase. And you alluded to it in your introduction when you talked about seeing the car in Oxford Road. And again, I had exactly the same thing at the weekend in Japan where people had seen it on social media, but then they see it physically and. And it. It's a. It's an altogether different proposition, because only then can you really understand the intersections, the proportions, and, you know, even just the shape of the rear. Because, you know, I know people have said it's got an air conditioner on the back, because I think it's just flat. It's not. It's beautifully curved and. Absolutely. And if you look at it from the rear and see how all of those lines and intersections come together, it is like nothing else. And it is genuinely a piece of automotive art. So that will be the challenge for us, actually, is because normally with the products, get it on social media, get it in advertising, get people to look at it, get to your website. I think that'll take us so far. But people need to see it physically. That's definitely my. You know, one of my takeouts from the last kind of four or five months is we've just got to find ways of getting the car physically out there. So we've got some. We've got some thoughts and pairing some plans with it. Yeah. Actually with the UK team now to make sure we can get some many eyeballs as possible for the remainder of the year.
- [19:53]
B
Well, I think that leads me to sort of two key themes that I want to explore, because the first is around the price point. It is north of £100,000, which is quite a departure from where I pace was, for example, which is more around, you know, 60k or so. And at that price point, there's so many things that you're afforded because it becomes a totally irrational purchase where you can operate in that world of art and, you know, tap into all those sorts of emotions and decouple yourself from, well, we need to go to Tesco's twice a week and do the school run, etc. Etc. But at the same time, you've got to find a whole new set of customers, or at least 80% of those customers need to be new. And then there's the challenge of the people who are very, very loyal Jaguar brands, who perhaps Jaguar fans, who perhaps didn't resonate with the new campaign, could be thinking, my beloved brand is going off into the wild and am I part of it? So perhaps let's start with the price point. What does it mean, do you think, to be a car at that price point? What does it have to serve? Because it's got to be more than just the physical car itself.
- [20:58]
A
Yeah, I think, like most things, I've spent pretty much all of my career in marketing roles and commercial roles. So, you know, one of the things that's absolutely ingrained me, whether I'm in or outside of the car industry, is if you have to start with a compelling product proposition, so you have to start with that, but then you have to kind of say, well, okay, what's going to differentiate that is, well, actually, what's your brand about and what does your brand stand for? And then when people interact with your brand, are you able to do so in a way that's, that's really compelling, really consistent and absolutely reinforce those values because, you know, the brand is a, is a contract of trust and you have to make sure that you deliver that consistently. And then on top of that, there's the experience. So there are some, there are some very functional things that we absolutely have to get right because at those elevated price points, there comes an expectation of, well, actually, it's just going to be seamless, it's going to be really easy. I don't, you know, I am the epitome of cash rich, time poor. So you're going to handle all of those things for me. So how we, man, how we handle things like, you know, routine service and maintenance, you have to completely elevate that experience in terms of our other experiences that we put on as a brand, and you've alluded to it, it enables us to get into a much more emotive, less rational kind of artistic space, which I think definitely talks to a number of our clients. So those type of experiences have to change. How we retail has to change. It has to be. My shorthand often is the way in which many, not everybody, in this context, the interaction they have with a retailer or an OEM is on the OEMs or the retailer's terms. It's about actually the most efficient process for us. How are we going to work this? Rather than actually, we start with what does the client want? And that could be as basic as where do you want to have your handover? Would you like to have it at the restaurant of your choice? Do you want to have it at your home? Would you like to have it at the retailer? So if you start from the position, the question of what does the client want? And put everything on their terms as far as you can, that's a better place to be. So we've had to go through product, brand experience, both the rationally experienced and those emotional experiences. And as I say, how we retail. I spent some time yesterday looking at how we can digitally bring the car purchasing process alive and just take it into a completely different space using the latest AI technology. And again, it's absolutely stunning what you're able to do in terms of show the car in a com in a way that I've just not, I've just not seen done before. And I think we've got to do that. We've got to surprise people, but always do so in a way that's just executed peerlessly. So, you know, it's a very easy thing to say. We're going to double our price point, as you've alluded to, but if you're going to do that, you have to deliver in pretty much everything that you do. And that's also been a theme. We had some clinics recently in North London and post, you know, the launch and really exploring what we did. You know, there's, there's definitely a sense of, yeah, I could, Jaguar could do this, I could go along with that, but you have to do this, you have to do this, you have to, you know, there are certain prerequisites which are, you know, which I've kind of talked about, which we'll need to deliver on. And we're absolutely clear that the, you know, the brand and the brand experience is going to be fundamental. It's not just, you know, one of our mantras is this is not just a product reinvention, it's got to be much bigger than that.
- [24:44]
B
I can see my colleagues out of the corner of my eye and I've mentioned this about 5,000 times, and I'm about to do it again. But last week I was with the Financial Times at the Future of the Car and what was so fascinating about some of the discussions there is that we're moving into this era of software defined vehicles, moving into an era where there's a vast amount of competition coming from China. So actually brands are having to ask themselves, who are they, what are they, what is their character and how do they remain relevant? And actually, when you look at that, how you purchase a vehicle and how you as a consumer interact with the vehicle, actually we've got these new technologies, but we're sort of forcing them on quite an old fashioned way of buying cars or perhaps interacting with the brand. And it presents a huge number of challenges for how you bring your, your dealership network along on that journey, I suspect as well.
- [25:31]
A
Yeah, I think some of those things, well, all of those things, whether it's the technological change we're seeing, whether it's in powertrain, whether it's in autonomous driving, whether it's the changing competitive set coming across from Asia and China specifically, for me, they are important, but they absolutely validate what we've done. Because if we felt it was challenging for us to be in that sort of premium volume space selling I paces and F paces, well, in another two or three years, when all of that is just more and more mature, I think that will be a much more, even more competitive and even more challenging commercial environment than we're in today. So actually elevating the price. Product. The price point. Elevating the product and focusing much more on brand, because that then becomes the differentiator. There will be table stakes, a certain level of autonomy, a certain. Screens, for example, big debate in the auto industry, do we bombard the clients with screens or do we give them screens when they need them? What type of environment should we just. So we have a, we have a point of view about actually what Jaguar needs to do in those areas. And there are some things, as I say, where there are table stakes, you have to do this. There are other things, we think. Well, actually, yeah, that's probably not a place where we need to be like, cutting edge, because that's not what we're about. And almost, you know, the analogy kind of I use is, you know, in the, in the luxury watch space, you know, are there folks, you know, Patek and Rolex worried about the fact that their cars don't receive emails and tell somebody what the temperature is? Yeah, they're not, because that's not, that's not what their brand is about. Their brand is something completely different, you know, from therefore. And it's about, you know, it's about knowing, having a really clear picture about what your brand needs to be. And, but also crucially, you can't be completely negligent, you can't be blindsided about. None of that matters because clearly lots of those things matter. But deciding where you want to play and actually where you need to be, really, really kind of where you want to double down, actually, some things that's not important to you is probably some of the most difficult choices all OEMs have. But, yeah, we're clear on that in Jaguar.
- [27:49]
B
So in terms of those customers that you're picturing, I think I'm right in saying that 80% of Jaguar customers will be Conquest customers. So new to the brand.
- [27:57]
A
Round numbers. Yeah. If you just do the maths of where, you know, were we transacting? Because we have been transacting at those price points in terms of some of the, some of the top end of F type and F base, but sort of generally, yeah, we think it's likely to be 80% conquest. Yeah.
- [28:14]
B
Who do you envisage them to be, envision them to be? And how will you find them? How will you, in what environments will you speak to them?
- [28:23]
A
So I think all of our analysis and insight tells us that, you know, and this probably isn't hugely surprising. They're more likely to be urban, they are going to be younger, so they're more likely to be in their 30s and 40s than their sort of 60s, which some of our client base is today. But that's to say we still will need to stretch the full age gap. It will perhaps be a broader cross section of gender as well. We would, you know, the regions that will be important for us. You know, we're not just a UK brand, so the US will be super important for US, Europe, China, etc. That's no great surprise. But perhaps what's most interesting in terms of, is apart from all of those geodemographic and I guess economic factors will be, you know, a unifying mindset around sort of independent thinkers. People that really appreciate design, they really appreciate something that's, that actually is a little bit different and they are prepared to stand out. So if you're, you know, somebody that's relatively conservative and doesn't want to make bold decisions or doesn't want to choose a brand that says something really kind of bold about them, we're probably not going to be the brand for them because, you know, as you've seen with Type 00 concept, that's quite a statement. And it's actually those unifying mindsets which quite often cut across gender, cut across age groups. That's the unifying thought that we think people will come to Jaguar in terms of how we find them. I mean, to a certain extent we need to do activities like we're doing at the moment. We've already got 35,000 plus people who have said, I'm really interested globally, which actually is a great start. And it's about that process of showing up in the right place, understanding where they work, where they play, where their interests are and presenting yourselves in an interesting way and then start that relationship there. So say one of the key things we do with those individuals that have put their hands up. We call them KMIs. Keep me informed. So somebody said, I'd really like to know is every month they get an update from us and it could be, it could be a video from some of our design team talking about how did they get there, talking about how we use clay. It could be talking about, you know, the icons and how we develop them. It could be me talking about actually the strategy. It could be talking about an activation we've just done in Japan. It just basically, we want, we want to bring people on the inside.
- [30:51]
B
Yeah.
- [30:51]
A
And people feel like they're actually this is interesting. I want to be part of this brand and that's something I, you know, I want to. I want to sign up for. So, you know, we have the benefit of time. So we have this elongated period between now and actually when we're going to be handing vehicles over and that's really the time for us to build that community. And then I guess, as with all auto brands and brands generally, I think the, you know, the first people that are publicly seen in those vehicles, you know, people in, not just publicly but also in their communities, I think they'll be also really important and influential in terms of. In terms of sort of, you know, for other people looking for the assurance that actually, yeah, actually that is the right. Because she's done that or he's done that, and that's. That's also super important for us. And we've got, We've got some. Got some ideas in that space too.
- [31:39]
B
But when that will happen, I don't think you're allowed to tell me, are you?
- [31:43]
A
Well, it's, I guess, you know, the rest of this year is definitely all brand building and then as we then get into 26, we'll, you know, we're definitely going to be then talking about the production car and delivering cars towards the back end. So that's, that's roughly the. Roughly the. The plan.
- [31:58]
B
We're coming towards the end. So I've got two more questions that I want to ask you, actually. 3. First, one very quick one, don't think this is going to be on the management salary sacrifice scheme.
- [32:10]
A
Well, I'm making sure I get one, that's for sure. That's in my contract. Well, you know, our full size Range Rover is on our management scheme, so that's true. Yeah.
- [32:24]
B
Who knows?
- [32:25]
A
But I guess, joking aside, one of the things, you know, we would envisage this vehicle to be in very short supply and as we did with all those products, the clients will come first. So actually, we certainly won't be letting anybody, you know, we'll be prioritizing clients ahead of any internal users. Even me, I suspect.
- [32:42]
B
Now, the other day when I came to Oxford Road, you were talking and you said something quite amazing and I'm just going to refer to my notes here. You spoke about how the fact that Jaguar's mantra is around copy nothing, and that is absolutely essential to what you do, and it's absolutely essential to this rebrand. And the people in the room, I think, were more traditional Jaguar fans and Jaguar customers. And you made the point that when the E Type was first revealed to the world, it wouldn't have seemed pastiche, it would have felt like it had been dropped from space.
- [33:12]
A
Absolutely.
- [33:13]
B
And I thought that was like, I was in the audience thinking that's, that's a perfect analogy. How are the original or like, you know, OG Jaguar fans, how are they feeling and how are they being brought on this journey?
- [33:26]
A
Well, it's a, it's a good question because I think in retrospect, in the fury of launching the brand and showing the world type 00 and then I guess a lot of people, you know, clearly we do need to attract a new audience, but we want to, we want to bring as many of those fans on that journey with us as possible. So the event that you're talking to was a kind of a friends of the brand. So lots of really influential people, whether it's Jaguar enthusiast clubs, whether it's, I mean, we had an awful lot of people that had been on previous Jaguar boards. We had at least two Jaguar managing directors of, you know, of yesteryear. And, you know, yeah, a lot of them came in, arms folded. It was like, you know, what are you doing with my brand? But actually, and you were there, I think you got that sense of when you explain the why, when you just kind of walk through, okay, where we'd got to and you know, and, and get a move away from all of the kind of rhetoric that's been spoken about, about us, you know, in social media, whatever else, and say exactly that, you know, when the Jaguar, the, the iconic Jaguars, you know, the, whether it's the, the E type or the XJ or the XK220, what, whatever it is, is the, they break molds. I mean, even, you know, it was, even the C and the D types that dominated Le mans in the 50s, they were using, you know, aeronautics, which nobody else was using. They were thinking they were just finding a different way to win. So they were, you know, copying nothing. They were rewriting the rule book about actually how you, how you would develop a, you know, long term performance sports car. So in that context, it is exactly what Jaguar should be doing. And that's, you know, a point that if I ever get the opportunity to talk to, whether it's enthusiasts or media, and you're asked that question about throwing heritage away, it's like, well, why would we. Yeah, you know, if you were, you know, you mentioned the Chinese entrants, they would kill for the type of provenance and history and the incredible people that have been associated with our brand over the last 90 years. So. But what we can't be is a historic brand because that literally pigeonholes you in a point in time. We have to be a brand with history, but a brand with history that's thoroughly forward looking and that's our take. It's like actually the essence of Jaguar is to do those brave, bold things when we're at our best. And actually that is things, as you say, like the E type. And I think it's a, when you say that to people, I think, well, just imagine what that was like, what the reaction was when that landed. And, and I think that helps people with the narrative because it's not a literal translation of some of those iconic Jaguars, which are very sort of perhaps very curvy. But if you think about the proportions of all of those vehicles, you know, whether it's actually, you know, the XK120 or actually, or, you know, or the XJS, I mean, has, that car has incredible proportions, real great drama. But that's what all great Jaguars should have. And that's, you know, I've got two bits in my job, really. You know, there's an element of we need to put the, you know, the brand on a much firmer, much more sustainable financial sort of platform in order that, you know, we can secure the next 90 years of Jaguar's history. But we're going to do it, I think, by creating the next, you know, we're trying to make the next icons for Jaguar. Now time will tell because time's the only arbiter of actually what is a true icon. But I think we're much better setting a really high bar and saying, actually, you know, I want people, you know, I'm on the JBHT board of Jaguar Daimler Heritage Trust Board of directors. And that looks after, you know, Jaguar's heritage and, you know, in 40 years time, you know, I want a four door GT to be a car that's cherished and held in that same esteem as some of the other cars that we've been talking about. That's, that's why we get out of bed in the morning. And I think that's entirely what Jaguar, it's what we did for probably the last, first 70 years of our history. And that's, that's really what we're returning.
- [37:27]
B
To God, creating great drama and creating a new icon. You know, no small ask there, but it's, it's also, and this isn't, I don't think, a unique challenge to Jagger. I think any brand that has history and heritage in order to preserve that heritage, actually, you have to innovate to ensure that it still is relevant in the future and can survive and obviously thrive in the future as well. So it's almost, I guess for some people it could feel paradoxical that you need to be radically different and bold to protect heritage. Okay, one last question. I promise you, if there is one thing that you would like the world to know about Jaguar that they. You don't think they fully grasp, what would it be?
- [38:12]
A
That's a great question. I think I'd like them just to reflect on, I guess, the why, particularly those people that are, and there are millions of people that are really passionate about Jaggy, but they're generally passionate about our. About yesteryear, not what's been happening more recently. So that sort of sense around. Okay, understand why we've done what we've done, you know, for very real kind of commercial reasons. You look at the competitive context, you look at the technological landscape, you know, managing brands, you know, sometimes is about those small incremental changes. Most of the time actually brand management. So I did my. You know, there's all sorts of cases, what I studied at university, that's. And that's what it's about. But occasionally it. All of those things call for something much bolder. They, you know, they maybe call for a much bigger leap and we think this is one of those. So I guess come on that journey with us and go back to my. One of the early threads of this conversation is come and see the Karen physically, I mean, it'll be at Goodwood Festival of Speed this year. Come and have a look at it and make your own mind up, because it's one of those weird paradoxes of the design that looks like nothing else. Seeing it in social media or on your phone is very different to seeing it in the flesh. So come and have a look and make your own mind up.
- [39:27]
B
Well, Rawdon, thank you so much for giving up your afternoon. It's been a total delight to chat.
- [39:32]
A
Thank you, me too. It's been great. Thank you.
- [39:39]
B
That's all that we have time for. Thank you so much to Rawdon Glover for sharing his insights on Jaguar with us. Before you go, if you could do us the honour of liking commenting, subscribing or sharing with a friend, we would so appreciate it. It really does ensure that we can carry on telling the important and cool stories in this clean energy transition. But that's it. If you have been. Thank you for watching and listening.
- [40:01]
C
We're really excited to partner with Duracell Energy to showcase their amazing renewable energy solutions. If you want to reduce your energy bills and join the renewable energy transition, installing home battery storage and solar panels at home is a great way to start. Duracell Energy's ecosystem of products typically partners with solar panels, but they can be just as effective without it, particularly for electric vehicle owners or anyone looking to take control of their energy. And with Duracell Energy's platinum homeowner offer, viewers can get a custom service that pairs you with top quality products and the best installers in your area. Duracell Energy's batteries, inverters and EV chargers work together on one easy to use app. With features like dynamic tariff integration and grid services, you'll be able to maximize your return. Ready to get started? You can get your quote today. And don't forget we're also giving away a Duracell Energy bunny in every episode. Just answer the question about fully charged by following the link in the description. Good luck.