Leap into the unknown? Has Stellantis masterstroke turned Chinese car invasion to its advantage?

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Everything Electric Podcast – Leap Into the Unknown? Has Stellantis’ Masterstroke Turned Chinese Car Invasion to Its Advantage?

Host: Robert Llewellyn (The Fully Charged Show)
Guest: Damien Dally, Managing Director of Leapmotor International
Date: June 22, 2026

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Overview

This episode explores the rapidly evolving relationship between Stellantis—a major European automotive conglomerate—and Leapmotor, a young but fast-rising Chinese electric vehicle (EV) manufacturer. Host Robert Llewellyn and guest Damien Dally discuss how Stellantis’ significant stake in Leapmotor is changing the EV landscape across Europe, touching on topics such as manufacturing, brand perception, dealership networks, vehicle pricing, and shifting public attitudes toward electrification and Chinese automotive brands.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Stellar Rise of Leapmotor

• Leapmotor’s Youth:

  • Leapmotor was founded in 2015, making it just over a decade old—remarkably young compared to century-old established carmakers ([05:16]).
  • Robert marvels at its rapid development:

    "The thing that knocks me out about Leap Motor is it's only just over 10 years old. As a company, you know, when you think of car companies they usually … between 50 and 100 years old." ([05:00])

• The Stellantis Deal:

  • Stellantis acquired 21% of Leapmotor in October 2023. Within six months, Leapmotor International was formed, and cars were launched in Europe and the UK ([05:47]).
  • Damien calls the process “whirlwind-paced” and “super, super exciting.”

2. Market Positioning and Rapid Expansion

• Unique Market Entry:

  • Leapmotor launched its smallest (T03 city car) and largest (C10 SUV) models first—“bookends”—with plans to quickly fill other segments ([07:12]).

• Growth in Range and Retailers:

  • After the B10 launch (C-segment SUV), Leapmotor’s coverage soared to 75% of the UK market by model and is set to reach 90% with six cars by year-end ([08:53], [16:07]).
  • Retail presence: started with 44 dealers, now at 80, aiming for 110 by year’s end ([19:55]).

• Dealer Network Leverage:

  • Leapmotor uses pre-existing Stellantis dealerships, accelerating its UK rollout and simplifying training and service ([20:22]).

• Manufacturing in Europe:

  • Leapmotor will soon produce cars at Stellantis’ European plants, reducing logistics costs and allowing faster adaptation to European tastes ([32:57]).

3. Product Perceptions and Customer Value

• Product Quality and Price:

  • Robert praises both the T03 and B10 for unexpectedly high build quality, comfort, and energy efficiency ([05:01], [13:13]).
  • Vehicles offer extensive specs as standard for prices below many ICE cars—e.g., T03 from £14,495 (with grant) and B10 (SUV) for £31,000 ([08:53]).

• Value vs. Cheap:

  • Dally clarifies Leapmotor aims to offer “best value” rather than merely being the “cheapest,” highlighting extensive standard features across models ([11:26]).

• Range and Real-World Performance:

  • T03: Officially 165 miles; owners and journalists report achieving this in practice ([12:44]).
  • B10: 270 miles stated range; Robert drove it “without even thinking” about the battery ([13:40]).

4. Simplified Offerings and Customer Experience

• Simplicity and Transparency:

  • Leapmotor simplifies choices by offering “one level of specification”—the only choice is color ([36:47]).
  • Dally notes:

    “We wanted to cut through all that and make it super, super simple. So it's simple for the customer, simple for the dealer and actually it's quite, it's simple to communicate.” ([38:54])

• Sales and Handover Process:

  • Their dealership network leverages established systems and invests in customer education (in-person and video), ensuring EV newcomers aren’t left mystified at handover ([22:29], [23:42]).
  • Robert shares a story about a customer left stranded due to poor dealer education—highlighting the need for supportive handovers ([21:15]).

5. Changing Attitudes Toward EVs and Brand Loyalty

• Public Perceptions Improving:

  • Host and guest agree that skepticism about EVs is subsiding; most car buyers now consider going electric. Rising familiarity and word-of-mouth are key drivers ([26:04]).
  • Damien observes:

    “Most people now know people who have made the switch to electric … their lives are almost better as a result.” ([27:08])

• New Brand Openness:

  • Electric cars are disrupting traditional brand loyalties. Even customers with strong preferences are considering new entrants like Leapmotor ([28:15]).

• Comparison With Previous “Invasions”:

  • Chinese brands’ journey mirrors how Japanese and Korean brands were once viewed with skepticism before attaining widespread acceptance ([43:03]).

6. “The China Question,” Security, and European Roots

• Customer Concerns:

  • Occasional customer worries about Chinese cars (e.g., security, reliability) are acknowledged but seen as diminishing in importance ([31:00]).
  • Damien reassures:

    “We are 51% Stellantis European brand … we're not into any shortcuts or anything like that … we have the backing of [Stellantis], the fourth largest manufacturer in the world.” ([32:26])

• European Manufacturing as a Solution:

  • Transitioning production to Europe will further address concerns around security, reliability, and economic dependence ([33:44]).

7. Technology, Battery Life, and Reliability

• Battery Life Concerns Diminish:

  • Batteries are guaranteed for eight years, often outlasting much of the car ([44:23]).
  • Anecdote: a limousine in Australia replaced its battery after 600,000 miles—far longer than most cars remain on the road ([45:11]).

• Charging Habits Evolve:

  • Most customers charge EVs at home (about 90%), reducing “range anxiety” ([24:19]).
  • Robert notes public attitudes to rapid charging have matured, and infrastructure is now a familiar sight ([23:42]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Leapmotor’s Speed and Agility
  “The speed which this thing is moving at is incredible … crash bang wallet within six months … launched in Europe, launched in the UK ... whirlwind paced.”
  — Damien Dally ([05:16]-[05:47])

• On Value, Not Just Price
  “We never set out to be the cheapest. What we wanted was to be the best value … all that level of specification … full alloy wheels, full sunroof, a large screen, adaptive cruise control … we packed a lot into actually a really low price.”
  — Damien Dally ([11:26])

• On Customer Experience
  “The handover of an electric car is even more important now, simply because … what we don’t want is people panicking like that lady [struggling to charge her car].”
  — Damien Dally ([22:29])

• On Simplifying Car Buying
  “We chose for each of our core cars to have one level of specification so everything as standard… the only thing you need to choose is the color.”
  — Damien Dally ([36:47])

• On Changing Skepticism
  “I’ve done a couple of public talks… the questions would have been more skeptical, [but now] there’s none of that anymore.”
  — Robert Llewellyn ([26:04])

• On Brand Loyalty and New Entrants
  “Brand loyalty... I’ve never done brand loyalty… then: Golf, Golf, Golf … oh God, I had brand loyalty!”
  — Robert Llewellyn ([28:15])

• On Chinese Manufacturing and Security Concerns
  “If something is on a consumer’s mind, best thing … is for them to say it … but we absolutely will [be here in five years], because we have the backing of [Stellantis] … as of today is unique in the industry.”
  — Damien Dally ([32:26])

• On Battery Life
  “The batteries are guaranteed for eight years ... there’s a lot of progression happening now … most British buyers now are buying on 36, 48 months anyway ... twice that the warranty is covered on the battery.”
  — Damien Dally ([44:23])

• On the Future
  “We’re growing super fast. ... by the end of this year ... 1 in 100 cars that are registered will be Leapmotor.”
  — Damien Dally ([47:08])

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Key Timestamps

• [05:00]–[07:00] Leapmotor’s history and Stellantis investment
• [08:19]–[10:29] UK market launch, impact of government and Leapmotor grants
• [11:26]–[14:23] Product value versus price, real-world performance and range
• [16:07]–[18:14] New model launches (B05, B10, range extenders) and market coverage
• [19:55]–[20:54] Expansion of dealerships, leveraging Stellantis’ network
• [21:15]–[24:09] Importance of dealership training and customer EV education
• [26:04]–[27:41] Shift in public perception, role of word-of-mouth
• [28:15]–[29:39] Brand loyalty and market disruption by new entrants
• [31:00]–[32:45] Addressing China-related concerns, security, reliability
• [32:57]–[34:36] European manufacturing and product adaptation
• [36:47]–[38:54] Leapmotor’s “everything as standard” approach
• [41:02]–[42:48] Stellantis’ scale and brand platform
• [43:03]–[44:17] Parallels: Japanese and Korean waves, now the Chinese era
• [44:23]–[46:30] Battery longevity, warranties, and customer anecdotes
• [47:08]–[47:56] Leapmotor’s growth targets and future aspirations

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Tone and Language

• The conversation is lively, informal, and peppered with wit and industry insight.
• Both Llewellyn and Dally convey a pragmatic optimism about the shift to electric vehicles and a nuanced understanding of challenges, using relatable anecdotes and industry context.
• Concerns about price, Chinese origin, and battery durability are tackled head-on but with balance and clarity.

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Summary Takeaways

• Stellantis’ partnership with Leapmotor is a game-changer, blending Chinese innovation and manufacturing speed with the scale and trust of a major European automotive group.
• Leapmotor’s proposition rests on agility, value, and simplification—delivering premium technology and features at accessible prices through a robust, familiar dealer network.
• Customer skepticism about EVs and new brands is fading fast, especially as quality, real-world usability, and charging convenience steadily improve.
• “The Chinese car question” is often cited, but manufacturing in Europe and Stellantis’ backing are set to make Leapmotor a secure, long-term player.
• Public attitudes are in flux, brand loyalties are being upended, and products like Leapmotor’s B10 show EVs are now matching or beating fossil cars on total value.

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Transcript

[A]

I'm Kiana and I leveled up my business with Shopify. Once I figured out that Shopify was a thing, I never turned back. I can create a site with my eyes closed. Shopify thinks ahead of us, you know, and it thinks about the customer more than anything. Every day I'm thinking about some other new business, but Shopify is doing it to me because it's so easy to use. It's like, I can't stop. I'm addicted.

[B]

Start your free [e-mail] foreign. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Everything Electric podcast. Really quite an interesting little chat today. So I've been doing a lot of talking and thinking and contemplating and reading and researching about Chinese. The Chinese automotive industry and the impact it's having in Europe. And then the kind of liaisons that are now beginning to happen between European firms and European manufacturers and Chinese companies and how, you know, just. It's fascinating how in a sense, you know, the Europe has. Hasn't really got the mates that we used to have over the other side of the Atlantic. So we're kind of in a. We're kind of looking at different places, how the world shifts, you know, I don't know why I expected it to stop shifting. It's always been shifting. It shifted when I was little. It's shifting now or shifting long after I've gone. Anyway, it was so. It was great to get the opportunity. Two things, three things I'm going to do three quick things. One, I drove the Leap Motor T03 earlier this year when we did the little road trip through Wales with three of the smallest, cheapest electric cars available in the uk. And it turned out to be extraordinarily competent, even though it's like, designed as a little tiny city car. I drove it, I don't know, many, many hundreds of miles in the rain, in the cold, and it was fine. Brilliant wipers, excellent heating. For the last week I've had a Leap motor B10, which we've filmed a review of and that'll go out soon or it's already gone out by the time you see this, which is. I mean, it's an suv, so it's not my favorite type of vehicle, but as SUVs go, oh my God. Incredibly energy efficient, really comfortable, really comfy, grunt free getting in and out of an old bloke, really comfy back seats, masses of storage and it. No. Impressive, impressive car for £31,000 UK, which is like what, you know, it's for a car like that to be that what we're seeing is electric cars are getting cheaper than the petrol ones and that's just going to keep going. So after all that, I then thought what it's really good that we've actually managed to, to arrange this podcast with Damien Dali, who is the managing director of Leap Motor International, which he will explain because it is a fascinating. Leap Motor and Stellantis, well, Stellantis own a big chunk of Leap Motor. Leap Motors, Chinese company cars are made in China and at the moment, but they're about to be made in Europe as well. Really interesting story and I really hope you enjoy it. And just before we dive into that, I just want to say I don't and I don't know which shows will be available. I think definitely Twickenham at the, in the beginning of September and obviously Sydney in September are the two big live events we've got going, but we've got lots of other things stewing and brewing and all sorts of stuff going on. But if you're in the sort of Greater London area and you want to have a go in a huge array, just staggering array of different electric cars, that's the place to come. Zero pressure, sales pressure, zero hassle. You know, it's all in one place. Same in Sydney. This time in Sydney. It's going to be the biggest show I think we've ever done anywhere. I mean and it's a really interesting reflection of what's going on in Australia. So that's in the middle of September. That's all now for the time being. Let's talk. Let's talk the automotive industry, China, Stellantis, Leap Motor and all things related. Please welcome Damien Dally to the Everything Electric podcast.

[C]

Our three free YouTube channels on EVs and clean energy tech are funded by our fun packed tech test drive tastic events in the UK and Australia. Next up, Everything Electric Greater London and then Sydney. All events include a B2B EV day and commercial vehicles too.

[B]

So Damien, thank you very much for taking the time to talk to us today. It is, I mean it's just fascinating. I just want to say the thing that knocks me out about Leap Motor is it's only just over 10 years old. As a company, you know, when you think of car companies they usually, you know, the ones we're all familiar with, between 50 and 100 years old. This is 10 years old and the car is amazing.

[D]

Well, good to see you Robert. And yeah, you're absolutely right. And, and the speed which this, this thing is moving at is, is, is incredible. Really so you're bang on. The company was founded in, in 2015. The Stellantis, let me say our CEO signed the deal on the 23rd of October 2023 and then basically crash bang wallet within six months. So we bought 21% of Leap Motor in China.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

And then within six months formed Leap Motor International and then within six months then we launched in Europe and then launched in the UK in March last year. So I mean it's whirlwind paced to be honest. It's incredible. Very, very, very exciting I have to say.

[B]

It must be, it must be an amazing business to be, to be in because it's moved so quickly because there were so many things, you know, I'd heard of the brand, I'd seen a big stand. I was at Shanghai Motor show last year. So it was very. We spent a lot of time on the Leap Motor stand. So I kind of knew, I thought I knew about it but I even then assumed it was probably 30 or 40 years old. The company, you know, that like you know, a few other brands in China had been around for a while. That is so sudden. And also it's just, I'm not gonna, you know, whinge on about it. Why not? No glow on about it but the quality of the build of the car. I've just had the Leap Motor B10 for a week. We filmed it last week. I mean it's a really well put together car that is really, really nice to drive. And how is it possible that a ten year old company. Yeah, well here's the quick thing, I looked it up. Ford were 10 years old in or 11 years old I think in 19. 1912.

[D]

Right.

[B]

You know, so I mean and who, who can remember a model that ford made in 95 that's pre, that predates the, the Model T. You know, it's just like that is incredible the speed that these things are happening.

[D]

But what's super, super exciting really is that basically it's the reaction time as well. So. And the willingness to listen and the speed it takes to implement change. And I think you can see the T03 was the first car.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And then I mean we launched rather unusually with our smallest car and our biggest car and we almost described them like bookends. And then the commitment to our retailers and the commitment to the customers was we were then going to go and fill in the gaps between our smallest and our largest over kind of the next 18 months really. So we would have a segment through to D segment SUV and as I say quite Unusual to have the smallest and largest. And then, you know, we launched our B10, the one you drove. So thank you so much for the, for the feedback. Which is a C segment suv, which is the largest in the uk. And we launched that just before Christmas and that really catapulted us forward because with the two original cars which we launched in the UK, we had about 33% of the country, sorry, the, the model range, the customer base cupboard, but that immediately took us to about 75%. So.

[B]

Right.

[D]

And we launched it in November, which you kind of think, well, is smart time to launch a car. You know, everyone's in sort of Christmas mode and. But it was a really, really good thing because it enabled us to train our retailers to get the dealer demonstrators on to do the press activity. So they literally kind of, you know, as I say, when big Ben struck 12, rather than kind of a two week delay when everyone's on holiday and all that kind of stuff, it was like, boom, we were out and we're on the blocks, we're on television first week in January and you know, it's kind of really, really, forgive the pun, leap forward, but.

[B]

Right.

[D]

But it's been super, super exciting. You know, it's, it's, the pace is amazing. We've got new models to come as well. Yeah. But I think our, our key moment really, when I look back and you know, we celebrated our, to put the context of your example a moment ago. Yeah, yeah. We're 10 years old in the UK, we're just over 11 year old. So we did some fun stuff with our, with our, with our dealers and celebrating our first birthday. But the pace things are moving is incredible and we've got so much more to come. But the blast off moment, as I was saying, was really last summer we were the first brand to launch our own grant. So obviously it was fabulous that the UK government launched their EV grant because that's exactly what everybody wanted, even though we weren't necessarily going to qualify. It was great because EVs were on the front page of newspapers and all of a sudden massive interest in EVs. But if you remember, there was a bit of a hullabaloo as to what qualifies, what doesn't. And we got in well, we got in very, very fast and that's again super exciting because the speed which we can make, get decisions and the agility and we launched. So I think they mentioned it on the, they announced it to the press. I think it was on the 15th of July, we announced our grant on the 18th and it was our blast off moment as I call it, and we kind of haven't looked back. So it's been a. It's been. Whilst it's not been very long, we've. We've crammed quite a lot of things. So it's been super exciting.

[B]

Yeah. Because I drove the TO three that we did a little jaunt through Wales earlier this year. Three small affordable cars, the T3. Yeah, yeah. It was great fun. Well, it was. The weather was not kind to us, but it was, it was great. But the, I mean the fact is the TO three was just the. It's just incredibly cheap and all three of us had a go in it and every. Everyone said, you know, my expect. I think when you come across a car like that, your expectations are fairly low. So anything better than that, you go, wow, this is, you know, when I first left here to drive to North Wales in a car with, you know, not amazing range, I went, this is going to be an adventure. It was so easy. It was so easy to. I mean I had to charge it once to get to land Llandudno. You know, that's amazing. That is if you. In comparison with the first generation of electric cars like your Zoe's and your Leafs, I'd have to charge those three or four times.

[D]

Yes. So we never. Be honest with you, we never set out to be the cheapest. What we wanted as a positioning was to be the best value and I think the word value is often misused in our kind of day to day vocabulary really because we sort of associate it value with cheap supermarkets, all this type of stuff. But actually in the true definition as we know, it's kind of. I pay X and I get. Yeah. So actually it's. And that value attached to what you get. So actually we are the lowest priced EV with our Leap Grant at £14,495. But the key thing is all that specification that you get, regardless whether it was an electric vehicle or not, but all that level of specification, you know, full alloy wheels, full sunroof, you know, a large screen, adaptive cruise control on a 14 and a half ton vehicle. So it's so. And 11 ADAS features.

[B]

So.

[D]

And it's. We packed a lot into actually a really. Let me say low price.

[B]

Yeah, no, I think so. I thought we were all blown away by it and it did the journey beautifully and I mean it did a long drive and we picked that road because in mythologically it has the least public charging available of any road anywhere. In the country, you know, it's not overly, but.

[D]

But actually we won an award for. Against the range, because the range We State is 165 miles. We've actually got recognition for actually, because the people's perception. And I think this is interesting because people forget. Everyone talks about the kind of. Oh, yeah, it'll be 20, 30% less. Everyone forgets that on petrol cars, the same principle should apply. But actually we got, you know, we got recognized in the industry for actually achieving that 165, which was great.

[B]

And I can believe it. No, absolutely, yeah. And I mean, the thing I noticed about driving the B10, which I've done a few fairly long trips in, it is it didn't occur to me to check the range or see how far it was. It just. I just drove it because it's a car and you get in. I had to go to. From A to B. I got to B and I went, oh, oh, yeah, I better look at the. The state of the battery. It was fine. I mean, that range. I don't know what the stated range is. I can't. I haven't written it down.

[D]

270 miles.

[B]

So, yeah, I mean, it's. It just is like. Yeah. Anyway, you know.

[D]

No, so I'm pleased you liked it and it's opportune time.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's really. It looks.

[D]

And also that's kind of our volume seller, Robert, to be honest.

[B]

I can imagine now, it's amazing.

[D]

But, but, but interestingly, when we first started the journey, we expected the T03, which we just talked about, to be the volume product.

[B]

Right.

[D]

Because. And again, we know we started the brand with a. With a clean sheet of paper and in the business plan, we thought that would be the volume car because our C10, which is the biggest, the DSUV, whilst it was very well priced at 36 and a half thousand pounds, there's a lot of players in that kind of area.

[B]

In that area, yeah. Yeah.

[D]

But actually the opposite kind of happened. I mean, we sold the 203 quite well, but C10 far surpassed our expectations and only just in the last sort of month. Now B10 has taken over and B10 should take over because the segment is, roughly speaking, at forecast, registered in the uk, three of them are a C segment suv. So it's the largest. Largest segment, yeah.

[B]

I mean, that was because I have ranted about SUVs, but when I was in that one and I was in a traffic jam and there was about three Range Rovers, I went, oh, I'm at the same height as those people. Normally they're up there, you know, but I was. So. I mean the thing is that it's, it is a big car. But if you had a mince. What I rave about in the, in the review we've done. But I mean if you've got a. You know, I've looked back to my. At the time I had smaller children. I mean my kids are in their 30s now, but they. That would have been such an ideal car. The boot space is ridiculously enormous. It's just. It's got so much storage space. You know, when you. When I think back to bikes and skateboards and bags and all that stuff

[D]

you have to carry around.

[B]

Yeah. Yes, it would have been a very, very popular choice at that time. So then the one that's coming then, that looks really nice. The B. Is it the B05? The. The kind of hatch? Yeah, so.

[D]

So it's the B. B05. So. So we will launch this in middle of July. So just planning our launch activities for this almost as we speak. So we'll be on television. It's. It's a, as you say, a C segment hatch really probably. I'm not saying it's a sports car or a sporty car, but a bit sportier.

[B]

Really.

[D]

Really not interesting shape. Interestingly, a minute ago I was going to ask you whether you liked SUVs because a lot of people do, but not everyone necessarily always wants an suv. So I think this, this could be interesting and it's also got some different aspects like I'll have things like launch control on it. So. And we're trying to position this also to a wider audience, trying to attract some younger people as well. So we've got quite a cool concept which I would love to tell you about, but I can't. And we're going to go on TV with that. We've got some really interesting things. So. So that will be with us. We're literally looking to book the television for the 17th of July. Right. And then we will launch a. We'll also launch a range extender version of our B10, the one you've just driven, which, I mean, let me be clear, we are electric brand first, right? For whatever reason, the people, whoever can't quite make that leap right now. So we want to be 90% electric. We're launching that in B10. We've already got it on C10. And then we will launch the B03X which is a family car, in sort of mid September time, which is really, really super, super interesting. We position our seats. You talked a moment ago when, when your kids were younger and the amount of clutter. So because we've got B10 and C10 sort of, you know, 4.7 meter and a 4.45 meter SUV we positioned our C10 the biggest car more at families and the B03X will be in a very similar sort of vein. So we, we're looking to make that very to the masses. And then finally, finally at the end of the year which we will really commercialize next year, don't get me wrong, will be our final car of our current 6, 6 car range. So we will have jumped from being two cars covering 33% of the market when we launched in March last year to over 90% of the market within two years basically having launched and presumably

[B]

you've got, you have a, like a service centers around the country. Is that, I mean are you, have you actually got like Leap Motor dealerships? Because I'm trying to think you've seen one.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. So, so, so I mean let's touch on this a second because I think this is an important point. So there are lots of new Chinese brands. I mean there's. And there's a lot more to come. So we think we are quite unique and in the same way I think value is often misused as a word. I think the word unique is overused.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

When I say we're unique in, we're unique in so much as that basically Whilst Stellantis bought 21% of Leap Motor in China, the Leap Motor International which was formed six months afterwards is Leap Motor everywhere in the world external of China.

[B]

Right.

[D]

So now this gives us a real advantage and point of difference versus any other Chinese brand really in so much as basically to come back to your question about dealerships, we, we had dealerships almost ready made that we could, we so we could act and it, it fits in with the speed I mentioned a moment ago. And like a lot of these new Chinese brands, you know who are new to Europe, we obviously had tried and tried and tested systems. You know these systems have been serving dealerships and customers for you know, decades. I mean some of our brands, some of our brands have been. You talked about the, the age of Ford. I mean some of our brands like Volkswagen etc have been in the UK for 100 odd years. So yeah, so this kind of uniqueness of all the benefits that Stellantis bring us. So, so we actually when we kicked off last year we had 44 retailers.

[B]

Right.

[D]

And and we are currently at 80.

[B]

Wow. Okay. And.

[D]

Yeah, and we. And we look to close the year close to 110. Right. So it's easier for me to tell you, which I won't, because it's a bit negative where we don't have dealers, but even that would be pretty much closed by the end of this year, really. So no travel too far. And. And rightly so, if they want to choose Elite Motor. But at the moment, as we stand today, all of our dealers are existing Stellantis dealers.

[B]

Right, Right. But I mean, that's the. So presumably, though, that you can then train people in the service departments to. To be familiar with the cars. You know, that's. That's part of that process, I'm guessing 100.

[D]

So first of all, they're familiar with selling EVs in the first instance.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Secondly, we can piggyback all the systems and processes, which gives us a massive advantage. And then obviously, clearly we need to train them specifically in the Leap Motor products, which. So we almost. Almost got two thirds of the job done before you start, really. So.

[B]

So, yeah, I mean, it's a really, you know, good point. And I think. I mean, obviously it's changing, but there have been examples. I remember helping a woman at a Rapid Charger in Bristol, I don't know what, eight, nine years ago, who was. Who had just bought. I'm not going to mention the brand, it wasn't a Stellantis brand, had just bought a new electric car from a dealership and they hadn't shown her how to plug it in. I mean, the most basic thing. She'd never driven an electric car before, so she'd driven to Bristol to see her daughter at university and she couldn't get home and she was, you know, in tears and she said, oh, I can't use the fast chargers. My car doesn't have that connection. You know, the ccs, you pull out the plug. She didn't know. I mean, the most simple thing to show. So we, when we showed her, she. She burst into tears. Literally, she was. Because she had no idea. And we plugged it in for her and we. I paid for it. I thought, just have some electricity, you know, you'd be all right. And it charged her car and she was fine. But that. She was lucky. Well, yeah, exactly. If she'd been on her own at the middle of the night. But that failing of the sales system, you know, in a sense it was part of that transition where people who'd gone into car sales were probably petrol heads that Loved petrol cars and then they suddenly had to deal with these weird new ones. I'm assuming with my fingers crossed that that's not the case.

[D]

Well, so it's a really interesting discussion point. So. So first of all, I think the handover of an electric car is even, I mean handovers were always important to them.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

But are even more important now simply because, I mean even some of the non electric cars, you know, the technology advancements and are significant. You know, there's hardly anything that's analog anymore on any, on any car, is it? So. Yeah, but particularly I think on, on electric cars and, and I think also, you know, a lot of people have, you know, made the. Taking the leap, as we like to say, from, from thermic to obviously electric and what we don't want is people panicking like that lady.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

You know, because that, because if she hadn't met you, it could have completely destroyed the whole experience. So. Yeah, so, so we put a lot of attention onto this. In fairness, our sister brands within Stellantis already had. So we had that learning which we could benefit from. But we're also producing because often when people get their car they just want to go, you know, they want to get, they want to drive and, but, so, so there's a proper explanation, a point of handover first and foremost. But we're also, we also produce some videos as well. So we're doing some short videos and some longer videos. So if someone just wants to. Basic things that they need to know, then what? Then we've got something for that person and then. Which obviously charging is one of those. And then if someone wants to know in more detail, you know, then we've got longer content as well, which they can look at.

[B]

Right. Because I'm sure, yeah, it's not going to be the same and I think also the general kind of public knowledge about electric vehicles has shifted since then. It was, it was all very new to her, you know, and now if you, even if you're driving a, you know, a petrol car and you stop at a motorway services, it's very likely you'll see the 30 boxes that have got charges on you. Kind of, you've kind of. It's become a familiar sight, I think, isn't it? It has, yeah.

[D]

I mean, I mean, absolutely. And it's. But, but you know, it's nice that you stepped in and I think this is the point. I mean it's, it's. I mean most people are charging at home.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

I mean it's interesting because the whole sort of, you know, can I live with electric car and all this kind of stuff. I mean, I mean, certainly in most cases, you know, people are doing less miles than they actually really think they are and actually doing 90% of the charging home. I mean, I mean, I've charged publicly a couple of times, but most of the time I'm charging at home. And it's massively convenient. I mean, my father is an EV owner and I convinced him into it. It was before Leap Motor, just to be clear. So I don't ask which car. And, you know, probably one of the few things he trusts me on is car choice. And don't mean that quite as bad as he said, he's watching. But, you know, and he loved it. He loves it now because every time he gets in his car, he's. He's charging overnight at a really, you know, an amazing cost. You know, he's obviously. He's obviously retired and every time he gets his car, it doesn't. He doesn't need to visit a petrol station anymore.

[B]

Yeah. Because if, you know, I mean, what's become very apparent to me is, you know, in a sense, this is the wider electric vehicle topic, but I just wonder if you've felt this, that it really is this year there's this been this enormous increase in, well, in sales of electric vehicles. But just in general acceptance. I've done a couple of public talks recently where in the past, and I'm talking even five, six years ago, the questions would have been more skeptical, not, you know, not necessarily hostile, but they would have been negative. And what about this? And the batteries? Don't. There's none of that anymore. I don't get any of that. I don't know whether have you felt that. That there's a sort of shift, a wider shift?

[D]

I think there's a couple of things in this. So, so, so first, so first of all, I think fundamentally human beings want to do the right thing. Fundamentally. I mean, obviously there are people that don't, don't misunderstand me, but, you know, we kind of know that this is the right thing to do. You know, what stood in our past previously is, and certainly when I ran Fiat previously, and we did our own research, is price was a prohibitive factor to move to electric. And now that, kind of demonstrated by brands like Leap Motor, absolutely isn't the case. I think also even, I think most people who are coming to the end of finance arrangements or looking to buy a new car, they're asking themselves the natural question, should My next car be electric.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So, so if we can catch that. I think that's, that's really opportune as well. And, and I think also even things like the petrol crisis and stuff like this is making people think.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

You know and, and, and, and, and, and I think the other factor is most people now know people who have made the switch to electric.

[B]

Exactly.

[D]

And if you speak to those people and they get endorsement and referral for the fact that absolutely their lives are almost better and you know, kind of than as a result. So I think there aspects to it and we're certainly seeing that, you know, people are, people are with. And another key point which we're finding which is quite interesting is whilst we're coupled with Stellantis Brands, 95% of the customers we're attracting as Leap Motor are new to Stellantis. So actually we're attracting new. Okay new people into the dealerships as well.

[C]

Right.

[D]

And, and as I say we're a first, we're an EV brand first and foremost.

[B]

So obviously, I mean that is certainly one of the things that it. I was embarrassed to learn about myself because I hadn't really thought about that clearly. But you know, brand loyalty. I got asked in an interview, you know, what about are you now brand loyal to any particular mate? I went no, I've never been, I've never done brand loyalty. Then they asked what was your last petrol car? It was a Golf. What was the one before that? A Golf. What was the one before that? It's like four Golfs in a row. Oh God. I had brand royalty.

[D]

But you were.

[B]

Yeah, but that's, that flips. I mean I think that's. I've talked to numerous people in the auto industry about that, that the arrival of electric cars, people would suddenly, you know, buy a brand that they'd never even touched before. You know, it kind of threw things up in the air a bit.

[D]

I think this is an interesting point and you know I've read quite a few things about this and I don't think the automotive and the electric thing is unique. I think maybe there's something in it that post Covid and yeah if you look at some other industries and whilst my wife tells me I'm too old to buy trainers now, I've always been a bit of a trainer nerd really. And you know, you look at, you look, there's quite a few new sporting brands which you know, five, ten years ago people wouldn't entertain. You know, five, ten years ago it was all about Nike. It was all about Adidas and there's a bit of Puma. Now you've got brands like on Hookah and all these other brands which have come from nowhere. So maybe there's just a whole thing now that basically people are more open to different brands. And I think, yeah, I think if you think coming back to us in the here and there now, I think if you're open, if you're thinking about electric, you probably are looking to. And you read up and you are absolutely more open to these new brands than perhaps you ever would be before.

[C]

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[B]

And I mean, what about the China thing? Is that. Is that ever mentioned with customers that they go, I don't know if I want a Chinese car because it will be spying on me or whatever reason, or I don't want to. You know, there's that. I mean, I hear that sometimes, but it's kind of not very often, but it definitely is there. And we. I did a talk at the Cheltenham Science Festival just yesterday and one of the questions was about vehicle security from someone who works at gchq, but who I later spoke to, who's got a Chinese car, don't need to mention what brand. But, you know, that was quite amusing. But I mean, I think it's a. There's a background hum story about, you know, are we totally reliant on China for everything? Which we kind of are. I mean, the computers we're using to talk to each other, large amounts of the equipment in them were made in China. You know, it's very.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Dominant manufacturer.

[D]

Yeah. I mean, we haven't had a lot of that, I'll be honest with you. And I think you're absolutely right. I mean, it's. It's not just a car thing, is it?

[B]

I mean. No, exactly.

[D]

I'm not an expert on the industry, but I think, you know, the television industry has changed as well. I think there's a Chinese brand which is either number one or number two. And in theory, you mentioned spying. That'd be looking at you 24 7. So.

[B]

Yeah. And your phone as well. Is it, you know, with you?

[D]

Yeah. So I don't think these are. I mean, first of all, let me be really clear to any. Also less to you, but to anyone who's listening and watching, this is, is that, you know, we are cup. You know, we, we are 51stellantis European brand. Yeah, we're not in this for the short term. Yeah, if you are, if you had, even if you add on, add together the history of our brands in the UK, you're nearly 800 years. You know, we're not, we're not into any shortcuts or anything like that. So I, I really, if any consumer, I think the best thing, if, if something is on a consumer's mind, the best thing to do is for them to say it because at least you've got an opportunity to respond. And I think these, these, these, these things, I'm sure somebody worries about these type of things, but I think, you know, it's really not the case. And yeah, so we've got the, that again, that's the, that's the USP versus an unknown Chinese brand. And I think some of these Chinese brands, the consumer is naturally kind of thinking, well, is this brand still going to be here in.

[B]

Yeah, in five years.

[D]

A lot of them are giving long warrants. Are they going to be here at the end of the war, you know, at the end of the warranty, this kind of stuff? I mean, we absolutely will because we' backing of, you know, Astrantis being the fourth world, fourth largest manufacturer, which is I think super, super important and again, absolutely, as of today is unique in the industry.

[B]

It's also, I mean, I was very pleased to see that. I think it's Zaragoza, isn't it? There's a factory that. Is it open yet or it's being developed to manufacture leakmakers within.

[D]

It's going to open super, super fast. And going back to the thing we talked about earlier, you know, it's in actual fact Leap Motor and in terms of, in terms of that speed and speed limit implementation, we already started to manufacture. It's actually started and stopped, which gives an example of how quickly they can turn on, turn on and turn off depending on demand. So we already started to manufacture T03 in Poland for a specific time. So we were the first, first to do it. We obviously made the investment in Spain and I think again, this is the USP of the relationship with Stellantis is massive global manufacturing footprint and gives, you know, the combination of the two, you know, massive options to both Stellantis and also to Leap Motor. So we don't need to look outside, really.

[B]

Yes, no, I mean that's I mean, so effectively, I mean, that's, you know, I'm countering my own comment about the Chinese. You know, there's a Chinese element to it. But actually, at some point it's very likely the car you buy will be actually made in Europe somewhere or, you know, and the parts will be, you know, much more. I mean, it makes economic sense, doesn't it, to make, to not have to ship cars right around the world if you can make them nearer where they sold. It's a very good idea.

[D]

100. And obviously the, the cars which have been brought through and you see it in our range already. I mean, and I talked about at the beginning that the adaption and the speed, you know, to adopt to European tastes, whether that be the ADAS features themselves or the suspension settings, all this kind of stuff is, you know, it's, it's moving, it's evolving and they're learning super fast and that speed of implementation is super, super exciting. So absolutely. Building cars for British and European taste.

[B]

Yes, yes. And I mean, it does look, you know, it's, it's a. Because I'm the worst, I should not do the job I occasionally do. I should let other people do it. But my ability to appreciate the aesthetics of a vehicle are very limited, you know. But the thing I liked about the B10 in particular was it wasn't making an effort, it wasn't showing off, it wasn't being clever and flashy. It was a really highly functional, easy to use, easy on the eye. You know, it didn't, I didn't look at it and go, blimey, that's a bit weird. Like you can do with some cars. And so, you know, I can imagine it would be an easy car to live with, you know, it's not going

[D]

to be a. Yeah, well, thank you so much for your comments. I mean, it's very, you know, it's, it means a lot. So I, it is the largest segment. So we're trying to obviously appeal to a whole wide. So, you know, that car could do the job for somebody who lives on their own. A couple, a couple with a first child, you know, so it's a whole, you know, very male, female, split, even that kind of stuff.

[B]

So a lot of my neighbors, people with dogs, just, I'm just saying that.

[D]

And don't forget the dog. Sorry, I don't know how to get the dog. It's my favorite.

[B]

They would be furious.

[D]

Yeah, it's lots of room for the dogs and, and, you know, it's very, very, very, very Functional. So. And actually so. So. So one thing which we've done, Robert, which is quite interesting as well, is that when we started to launch this, we had a lot of discussion as to, you know, and there was some talk some, some years ago about, let me say, new disruptors coming into the market. I mentioned a couple, you know, there was a discussion about Apple producing cars at some point there was discussion about James Dyson. I think he went as far as buying the battery plant and you know, and then didn't. Which is probably didn't make the car. You know, how would they have started? With a blank sheet of paper? And the reality is they would have handled it in a very, very different way to, you know, the brands that have been in market for decades or in some cases over century. So we sort of looked at this and sort of said, well, how do we make it? What do customers want? Customers want simplicity.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

So we chose to. And it's a little bit different in Europe because they have different versions in Europe. So we chose for each of our core cars to have one level of specification which so everything as standard. So it wasn't that classic case where you'd go on TV with advertising, I don't know from 29, 5. And when you get into the showroom, it's like kind of a sticker that says £35,000 in it. Oh yeah. But it's got the 21 inch wheels and it's got the sportback and it's got, you name it. So the only thing you need to choose with our cars is the color and the spec is, I mean super, super well specked. So yeah, we talked about some of the T03 but also the B10. So the B10, which you've driven with all that specification 17 ADAS features, the screenshot, that size eco leather, full heated ventilated sports alloy wheels, you know, all of that heat pump, not very sexy, but on some brands cost you eleven hundred pounds.

[B]

It's very important. Yeah, yeah.

[D]

All as standard.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Which really helps that. So the only thing coming back to what you kindly said about the design, the only thing you need to choose is the color. And on B10, what color did we send you? I should know, but I don't know.

[B]

It was sort of, it was a sort of mid gray, I'm going to say a blue. Mid blue. Gray. It was, yeah, it was on the gray blue spectrum.

[D]

So we've done it also. We've also launched on this car some quite funky colors. There's a purple and there's kind of, kind of like a, a pastel looking so blue, quite sporty. And then we've got the grays and stuff. So the only thing you really need to choose is your color. Everything else is standard, which is such

[B]

a good thing because that is a, it is a. I'm sure it's a classical, it's not new and then it's not related to electric cars, but the amount of times that you can get the new model, whatever, and you go, oh God, that's not bad. And then you. Yeah, exactly. As you say.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

If you, it's not quite. If you want a steering wheel, it's an extra 500 quid. But there's some things you go, what you mean that's extra? That should be.

[D]

Yes,

[B]

by the way.

[D]

But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of an, you know, it's, it's an element, it's, it's become an industry thing. So, so we wanted to cut through all that and make it super, super simple. So it's simple for the customer, simple for the dealer and actually it's quite, it's simple to communicate, which I think this helps.

[B]

And can we talk a bit about Stellantis? Because it is fascinating how that company, it just, you know, I've lost track. I'm. I'll be perfectly honest, I've lost track of how many brands are now Stellantis brands, but it's quite a lot. And it's an extraordinary, extraordinary. I mean, I don't know how big it is in terms of employees or numbers or value, but it's become a very big machine, isn't it?

[D]

Yeah. I mean, obviously it's the formation of almost certainly in Europe, three organizations, isn't it? So there's the Opal, previously with the former PSA and then more recently and I came from the Fiat Chrysler side of the business. But it is a true stable of brands and amazing brands ranging from, you know, French, Italian, American. Yeah, ranging from luxury, luxury with Maserati Premium with Alfa Romeo to, you know, kind of family fun, functional cars with brands like Fiat. And so actually we're super, super fortunate with Leap Motor because, you know, and I think this is another advantage versus other Chinese brands is that coming from Stellantis and a stable of brands. We do understand brand and I think the UK and I guess most of your sort of listeners and viewers are UK based probably is. We are quite, we are a sophisticated market. Having worked in Europe, I've really understood this. People do buy, they, they don't buy Products. They buy, they, they buy products from brands and they buy products from brands that they trust. Yeah, and, and arguably, and you know, your comments have, I think are right and obviously unbiased is, you know, arguably Stellantis has the best stable of brands. I think so, yeah. Very, very broad platform.

[B]

So that, I mean that, that I think it's a. Is Leap Motor the first Chinese brand that's, that has joined the Stellantis group or that Stellantis have invested in? Yes, I think it is. I mean it's the only one. Yeah.

[D]

Yes. So announced more recently is there's going to be another venture with another one which I won't go into now. There's a bit, there's a bit more, there's a bit of more to come. But, but certainly Motor is, is the first year and actually when we, when we, as we said at the beginning is, you know, to this day kind of unique within the marketplace. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

No, I mean it's a very interesting shift, isn't it? Because I mean that is, you know, certainly been a topic we've discussed at great length on the show, you know, is that, I mean and it's quite a hard thing to, to sort of navigate because I don't, I don't want to be a sort of promoter of Chinese cars, but we just got to acknowledge that, that this enormous industry when I was in China last year was extremely apparent. You know that has happened almost without certainly European, not, not the manufacturers I know they knew, but sort of European and American general public not aware that this massive shift in engineering and in manufacturing scale had taken place. And it suddenly become, you know, I think post Covid has become really apparent that change and I mean there's no, I don't meet any. I always want to chat with non car people who don't know anything about it, aren't interested at all. And they're all aware of Chinese brands. You know, they're all, you know, they've heard of them, not seen them.

[D]

I mean I'm a bit of a car guy so I mean, I guess, I guess when you look at over, you know, the last few decades, I guess the whole, you know, European landscape really changed, didn't it? So first of all, it was the Japanese.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

In probably what was, what was it now for the 70s, 80s, I guess.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, 70s, yes.

[D]

Yeah. And then, and then, you know, there were the Korean brands and again not, not on both points. Not necessarily all of them remain.

[B]

No.

[D]

And I guess the, the. What do they call it? I guess the 20s. The 2000s. Yeah, I guess is, is now, is, is, is now the Chinese sort of moment.

[B]

I think reactions as well. I remember the first time, you know, I would hear sort of general public talking about Chinese cars was exactly the same doubts and fears as they had about Korean cars and then before that a Japanese girl. They're not well made, they're not like our brands, you know, then you see them, you go, that car lost quite good. Yeah. So that, and can you. The, the other thing I just want to mention is the, which I also think is, I'm grateful is kind of diminished in its, in it being repeated. But the longevity of the batteries is, you know, that was the thing that for years was, was a bugbear for me. People go, oh well, if I buy electric I'll have to throw the, throw. And they always use that term, throw the battery away. After three years I'm going, well you won't.

[D]

But yeah, I mean I think there's two, a couple of things here. So first of all, the batteries are guaranteed for eight years.

[B]

Right.

[D]

And also there's some amazing innovations happening about renewing these batteries and kind of, you know, prolonging the life and stuff. So yeah, I mean it's, it's, there's a lot of progression happening now and, and again it's that kind of scaremongering, is it? Those sort of things fit with the whole range anxiety and all this kind of, all this other stuff. But yeah, I mean, certainly. And I, I think most car brands now are guaranteed for eight years. So yes, that concern is really not. I mean, I mean just to be clear, for most British buyers, most British buyers now are buying on 36 months, 48 months and that kind of stuff anyway. So I mean, obviously more than twice that the warranty is covered on the battery. So I think these concerns.

[B]

Yeah, I mean we interviewed a guy last year who was in Australia who, who has a famous American electric car brand as a. I like the fact that we're never going to mention any other brand name. Anyway, it was, it was used as a limousine and he, he had to change the battery. Now this is the story. Over 600,000 miles, he'd finally replaced the battery. And so when we talked to him, he was great guy. And this car is in use all day long journeys. You know, it's very, very heavy use because it's a, a limousine. It's not like a private car. Yeah. And he said before that they had to replace the rear drive chain, the rear suspension, the front Suspension, the steering, all the seats, the, the lining, like everything in the car had worn out and falls a bit long before the battery.

[D]

That's amazing. Testimonial to all electric, isn't it?

[B]

Incredible? I mean it is and I think, you know, that was exceptional and they were, you know, exceptional. And the other thing about that was they only ever rapid charged it because they didn't have any other choice. They had easy access to rapid chargers and nothing else, which was a very good. Because what I tell people now is don't worry about the battery. In 15 years the car will need a lot of attention, the battery will be fine.

[D]

And I think there's also massive innovations happening between it's own bike Advisor car now and in terms of what, prolonging future battery life as we speak. Also from the environmental perspective to make sure they make. They continue.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. Damien, it's been great talking to you because I think this is a really intriguing, you know, turn of events in the automotive world and I think, you know, I'm sure Leap Motor are going to go from strength to strength. I mean it's a, I mean it's still a new brand to me. Those, those two cars, the first ones I'd ever, I hadn't driven anything before but then I, you know, so I thought how did I miss out on that? And then I realized of course I did because it's only 10 years old,

[D]

you know, I mean, I mean it's we and, and we're one year old in the UK and yeah, and, yeah, and, and we. It'd be lovely to catch up with you in another year's time but I mean we're growing super fast. We've already broken 0.5 market share and I think this is important because as I, as I say to all my team, so 1 in 2, 1 in 200 cars which are registered as Elite Motor by the end of this year. The plan is the is, is to be 1% so 1 in 100 cars that are registered will be Elite Motor. So lots of grapes growth scope to come and you know, we're super, super young and yeah, lots of new stuff and it's super, super exciting.

[B]

I'm looking forward to seeing the BO5 when it's, when it's around. Be great.

[D]

We'll get you one.

[B]

Very nice. All right, well no, it's been really good talking to you. Thank you for taking time.

[D]

Thank you, really enjoyed it. Thanks for your time. Thank you.

[B]

Bye. Really hope you enjoyed that. Please do tell your friends about the everything electric podcast, please do subscribe yourself if you haven't cost you nothing. It's hugely helpful to us. Helps us with the people at YouTube. And that's it though, as always, if you have been. Thank you for watching.

[E]

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[D]

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