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Everything Electric Podcast
Renault CEO on Affordable EVs, Regulation, and Europe's Small Car Future
00:43:06
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- [00:00]
A
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- [01:10]
C
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Everything Electric podcast, where today we have a really special guest and I have my clipboard. So we are at the ready. But before I tell you a little bit more, if you could do us the honour of liking subscribing, sharing with a friend, or even leaving a little comment, a simple hello. Well, absolutely do. But it really does ensure that we can carry on coming to exciting locations like this. So where are we today? Well, we are just outside of Paris in Renault's Techno center to sit down with Fabrice Kambaliv, who is the CEO of the brand and also Chief Growth Officer. And in this episode we're going to delve into the Twingo launch the role of nostalgia and reimagining icons in the electric era, Europe's K car strategy and why Renault thinks that hybrid powertrains may still make sense. That last one I'm sure will ruffle a few feathers in this particular audience. But all of that to come. But first, a very quick advert break. Our three free YouTube channels on EVs and clean energy Tech are funded by our fun packed test drivetastic events in the north west and Greater London and our events down Under. Next up, everything electric north 2026 plus check out everythingelectric store for merch and much more. Fabrice, thank you so much for giving up your day today. Speak with me. I'm going to start with the dinner party explanation because you've been with Renault since 1992 you're now the CEO of the brand and since September you've also taken on the role of chief growth officer. But can you tell me what that actually means? And if you were to describe it to non car people say at a dinner party, what would you say?
- [02:48]
D
First of all, I don't have so much time to have dinner party but I will try to answer to you. I think for us after the first phase of renolution we had not to do something different but of course to adjust and to learn from the last four years to prepare the next four years. And one of the lessons we took from that is that during the last year we made a lot of focus on product and value and we have to keep that because it's essential. And that's why we made and we decided to go from a region to a brand organization. And I think that was a move which was very important because this idea to dedicate people, to dedicate our forces towards one brand and at the end one customer was very important to make this first phase. And we don't want to put that in question. It means brand should be always the main lever of performance. This being said, we have fields where we have to improve. We have to improve to have a better coordination between brands just in order to do the right trade off and to find the right balance between volumes. CO2 pricing for instance. We have also to commonalize all the environment and customer experience around the brands and we have also to accelerate on international markets. And that's exactly the additional function I irritated for this new phase. And that's exactly how I explained that in a dinner.
- [04:38]
C
So you're not busy at all. Very easy job.
- [04:42]
D
I think it's a very. A job is always easy when the way you are acting is in the same wavelength as the strategy of the company and the way you are thinking. And frankly speaking, we want to promote the brands, we want to go outside Europe, we want to go on with electrification, we want to enhance our customer experience for our customers. It means at the end, yes, when you agree between what you think and what you do, it's an easy job.
- [05:17]
C
I mean it has been an astonishing past few years. We've seen the beautiful Renault 5 that's behind us, the Renault for you've showcased the Twingo to the world this year. It almost feels so that we're at a juncture. There was sort of. This is the demonstration of what the renaissation means and this next phase is around operationalizing it. What does that look like to you and what's on sort of that big list of concerns.
- [05:42]
D
I wouldn't summarize the situation like. Like you do. I think for us it's very to give continuity, to give also always a long term vision in all what you do. But when you do that of course you have also to change or to adapt the direction when it's necessary. I will give you some example. During the beginning of renolution of course the first thing we wanted to do is to put value on the product and you see the result. But not only that, when you put value on products, you have to put value also on your commercial policy. That's why we changed our channel mix for instance, less self registration, more retail. We decided also to decrease our distribution cost just in order to narrow the tariff price with the transaction price to give more transparency. It means you of course as a public, you see the final product and it's the most important but you don't see all the transformation of the company we did internally and during these first years we also change sometimes our mind. I give you just an example. At the beginning we thought that the shift towards pure EV car would be much quicker than it has been actually. And that's why we decided not only to bet on pure electric car, but also to bet a full hybrid lineup for our IC cars. Selecting the right engines with the right performance for our customers. It means we went from a very, I would say long term vision towards Pure Bev until a much more pragmatic adjusted to markets, adjusted to the customer needs at the end lineup strategy. And that's why for me, after those four years, I don't see a stop and reset. Reset. When you do a reset, you always lose value towards your customers, towards your stakeholders, towards your employees. But a kind of new wave we have to prepare which will be by the way, in terms of models, as important as what we did in the last four years. But of course with some adjustment depending on all the external factors.
- [08:26]
C
It's always phenomenal to me that the automotive industry is a very interesting place to be in because we have products at the end of it that inspire fandom and an emotional response. But underneath them are those tons of years and hours of decisions and collaboration and changing your mind as you describe. And I think it's sort of such an amazing melding of worlds. I want to touch upon there though, the choice to go from a pure Bev strategy towards also exploring hybrids and continuing with petrol and combustion engines. That's something that a number of car players or a number of automotive makers have also done over the past sort of five years or so. And on the one hand I can understand that perhaps the uptake of electric vehicles hasn't been what's been expected. But on the other hand, I can see that pursuing a dual powertrain strategy can introduce a lot of internal complexity and cost.
- [09:21]
D
It depends.
- [09:22]
C
Interesting. How so?
- [09:25]
D
It depends because at the end, first of all, we have a group with just only a free brand. It means we don't suffer from a brand's diversity which is leading to cannibalizing ourselves. Second point for me, at the end, look at the final customer. When you listen to them, you've got people who are pluggable. It means they have access to a plug and then they want to be electrified as soon as possible. And people who are not pluggable but nevertheless want very low consumption cars with electric feeling. Because you know as an electric driver that when you drive an electric there is no way back. You have torque, you have silence, you don't have any gasoline smell and so on. It means it's very complicated to come back on diesel engine for instance, but sometimes you don't have the possibility to plug. And when we were listening to the customers and when we are listening to the different markets in Europe, we saw that there was those two demands. And for instance, in order to reduce the diversity, we decided to cancel our plug in hybrid program on B segment cars. There was a plug in hybrid on Captur. We decided to shift directly to full hybrid non pluggable to reduce the diversity, but to make real choices. That's why we decided to implement this full hybrid with record consumption. If you take the Clio 6, the new Clio 6 is 3.9 liter per 100 kilometers which is a record 89 gram CO2, but which enabling you to drive 80% pure BEV mode in the city. We decided to go deep on that, on all our models, but at the same time to keep dedicated BEV platform to build our next EV car generation. Now for me it's not a problem of diversity or complexity, it's a problem of choices. And of course you have to select the right engine for the right models. Another example, if you take our Austral or the recent launch of Symbios, we decided to bet on one unique engine, which was the hybrid. Though when you are sure about the technological choices you have to do, you can suppress the complexity. And that's the most important because after that you can work on that. And our job now is to use dedicated platform BEV to make the best BEV and also to improve the cost and the efficiency of our hybrid engine lineup just in order to feed the consumer needs.
- [12:37]
C
And obviously you described that there are people who are pluggable and non pluggable, which is. Is a great term that I'm definitely going to steal. But beyond those sort of logistical factors, do you see other distinct differences between your EV customers and your non EV customers?
- [12:52]
D
No. I think that's why I'm convinced that there is no way back towards the path of electrification. I think at the end, consumers, they need the same. They need accessibility, affordability, low cost of usage and better comfort. It means if you can have it through a pure BEV car because the autonomy is at the right level and so on, it works. If you can't have it, you have to find some transitory solutions which are really adjusted to your consumer needs. And I wouldn't oppose those two worlds. And by the way, you can see that in many, many countries, and we spoke before about the sudden takeoff of BEV cars. In some countries, like Turkey, they went from 0 to 20 within a few years or two or three years. It means that there is no opposition between pro and cons in terms of electric. Everybody will go there, but we have to adjust to the external conditions and that's why we are on two legs in this electrification strategy.
- [14:07]
C
I want to ask you about the M1E proposal. This idea that we have a European KCAR standard, which for those who might not be aware, it's sort of. Well, actually, I'm going to let you do this because you are the expert. If there was an M1E category, what does that actually mean?
- [14:24]
D
Why do you compare M1E and Ker.
- [14:27]
C
Ah, so I feel like that's been, I suppose, the, the media that I've consumed that. I suppose the comparison exists because an M1E car is a small car, a K car is also a small car. They're not the same in terms of the actual size, but they perhaps do sit in a different category based on the regulations that they would be sort of held to.
- [14:47]
D
Because. Because for me, I ask you this question on a provocative way. Because. Because M1E is until 4.2 meters. With 4.2 meters you can have a family car.
- [14:59]
C
Yeah.
- [15:01]
D
It means R4 is 4.2. And frankly speaking, the trunk of R4 is a real trunk. The safety of the R4 is a safety you can find in a C or D segment. The connectivity of the R4 is the connectivity you can find on nostril. It means for me, the M1E category is very interesting because it's not a small cart. No, it's is a category of car, is a car for everybody. What is interesting is that this category should enable us to agree with the regulators on a map, which is enabling you to work on the price and on the cost of the car. Because most of our problems now in Europe is the accessibility in terms of price. And if you want to reduce your price, you need time, you need to focus your engineers on this cost reduction and not on regulation adjustment. And you need time. And that's why it's so important to have a clear category. We can protect, we can care without of course abandoning level of safety which are necessary in Europe, but where our engineers will be able to focus on on the cost and then on the affordability for our customers.
- [16:29]
C
Perhaps you could explain for our audience why it is that the degree of regulations that presently exist across all car categories are adding so much cost and time to prevent meaningful cost reduction on those programs.
- [16:42]
D
To give you some example, I think that when we are looking at the different type of regulations we have to go through, mainly the regulation are concerning the level of pollution, which is normal. You have standards and norms which are more and more stringent, and of course safety when you go through those different regulation. We are using 25% of our engineering time to go through this kind of regulation on a yearly average basis in the last years and in the coming years, it means if we have a freeze of regulation once again without compromise regarding safety, because that's the most important, you can dedicate 25% of the people looking for better cost. And that's very important. And that's why for me, I give you another example. We stopped Zoe, for instance, which was a good success, one of our pioneer car in terms of BV because of specific GSR2 regulation. Because we were not able to go through the regulation with the architecture of this car. But it was a loss because at the end it took us three years to come back with alternative models to sway you. Look at the challenge. It means, of course we are year to progress, but we are here to progress at the right price. And this is exactly what we have to define with this new category and with the regulator.
- [18:31]
C
So earlier this year we saw the Dacia Hipster, which is obviously a concept car and kind of gives a version of this is the kind of car that potentially could exist should this category come to fruition. But can that car come to market without the M1E category being created?
- [18:47]
D
But I think this concept because it's still a concept, is going far beyond or beyond the EM1 category. Because the car is very small and is demonstrating a lot in terms of interior roominess, beginning with the number of seats. 4. It reminds me, you know, when in India we decided to launch a car named Triber, you know, which is seven seaters within four meters. Okay. It's a kind of challenge you have to take. And hypsor is very interesting because it's a bold design, plus four seats within three meters. But what we have to precise now, and this will be the job of Dacia's team, is at which price, which autonomy, which kind of customers should be customer with a driving license or not. It could be another category. And then think that what they are working on. And we will have. You will have our commitment and statement in the coming weeks.
- [19:55]
C
As I've asked you about the hipster, there's such a smile on your face and it feels like there's a lot of fondness for this concept. It seems like a real playful exploration of the brand.
- [20:04]
D
Yeah, but it's always playful to work on models which are very versatile and which are capable to. To have a kind of multifunctional offers. If I take the example of Twingo, for instance, we discuss six months regarding the length of the car, because we wanted absolutely to give into the car either the roominess on the second row of a B segment car, even though the car is an A segment, or the trunk. And, you know, we decided to do this sliding rear seats just in order to come back with the previous spirit of Twingo. This is the kind of thing which are quite interesting because what you decide in the package, which is just a question of a few centimeters, have a tremendous effect on the car after that. And we have the same discussion on hipster.
- [21:09]
E
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C
So let's talk about Twingo, because it's been behind me this whole time and I'm desperate to ask you this question, but you joined Renault in 1992. The first Twingo came to market in October 1992. So what an extraordinary time to be in the business. And that car, you know, it broke all the rules. It was delivered at an incredibly low budget. It was delivered at a pretty tricky time for the business, and people totally fell in love with it. I wonder if you could just take us back to that time and tell us how it felt when that car was first launched.
- [22:13]
D
For me, Twingo, of course, is part of my emotional career, because I began my career in Lyon by a dealership belonging to Renault at this time. And of course, I was marketing responsible for, for the dealership. And I had to launch the new Twingo. And I remember that I was so impressed by the car that I decided to buy one for my mother and I bring the car from Lyon to Toulouse. And I drove the car 400km straight in one run. And for me, it was a miracle because I entered in new world in this car. Everybody was looking at me. This was this kind of violet, you know, color. And everything in the interior was intuitive, accessible, but roomy and somewhere I was very surprised. And this feeling of roominess is exactly the same feeling I wanted the customers to have when they would enter in the new one. That's why we discussed a lot the size of the car and how all the functionalities which are enabling to have this really space, comfort and at the same time, a very, very compact car.
- [23:44]
C
So obviously, the space is a really core part of the DNA that's been transposed to the new version of the Twingo. What other parts of the DNA do you think that this new version embodies
- [23:54]
D
in terms of DNA? I think, first of all, if you look at all the Renault cars we are doing, we are designing cars to be loved, of course, sometimes with huge success, some other times with an average success, but at the end, we are bold and we want to be loved. And I think the new Twingo has this part of DNA of Renault. The second point is that now in our new DNA for the next generation, we want to be the pioneer in terms of electrification, not only with pure Bev, as I said, but also with alternative solution like fully breed. But with Twingo, we don't make any compromise. And it's full bev car like R5, by the way, everybody told me about, why don't you put an IC engine on R5? Because it's not part of our DNA. We want to be the pioneer in terms of electrification. We'll not sacrifice that with our iconic cars, and Twingo is one of our iconic cars. The second point, electrification, third point, which is for me very interesting in Twingo, is that we are working a lot on human first technology, even though it's a very accessible car, because it will be less than 20,000 Euro. You have a lot of driving aids. We put the full program of human first program, you know, all the rescue things we are doing for firemen with, you know, the firemen patent, access to fluid, the battery in case of fire, and so on and so on. Everything has been put in the car to be a real human first technological car. And the last point which is the most important for me is this capacity to craft interior, which are where you can feel at home. And that's exactly what we put in terms of DNA in this car.
- [26:00]
C
It's also just incredible.
- [26:02]
D
I give you some envy to buy it.
- [26:04]
B
Oh, my gosh.
- [26:04]
C
It just. How can you not look at it and have just a huge smile on your face? It is so. It is so cute. And I think, you know, it would be interesting to know how much road rage that it would cause. There might be a bit of a plummet, given how friendly and welcoming it looks. But I want to ask you about the role of nostalgia, because Renault 5e tech is obviously nod to the original Renault 5, this Twingo nod to the original Twinko, same with Renault 4. And leveraging that nostalgia is a benefit that a legacy OEM has in a way that perhaps a new entrant, a Chinese oem, for example, may not have. And I wonder, in this world where there's fierce competition from these new OEMs, how valuable and how important is that nostalgia in cementing Renault's role in the future?
- [26:51]
D
I don't think it's nostalgia for me. It's more emotion and it's not a rule, because you can't say when you want to be filled with emotion. It's something which has to come naturally. And for me, that's why we are not using just only iconic cars in our lineup. We are renewing also our, I would say, Saga cars, like Clio, like Scenic. And we are doing that on a different way, with different design. We are launching new models like Symbios. It means this car, kind of retro, futuristic car, is not a rule, but is a kind of lever to be even bolder and to be even a kind of game changer, outsider. For example, I think that the emotion we put in R5 and Twingo allowed us to shift our customers towards pure Bev with this emotional way we couldn't have with a normal car. And that's the way we want to work. It means it's not a rule, but when we do that, we use that to be even more emotional and sometimes even more creative because we are Working in a kind of frame which is our legacy. And within this frame, we try to liberate ourselves from this frame. And it's very interesting to go beyond what we've learned with the old generation of these iconic cars. Coming back to the difference versus Chinese. Of course, when you have 100 years of legacy, there is something which is important, which is all the truss, all the paths you created before. I was in Turkey the last two days and in Turkey, for instance, we have 4 million Renaults still in the streets. 4 million scars. It means when we are launching a new Clio, people know that this Clio will last a long time, will be replaced, certainly by a new Clio, will be repaired, will be part of the history of the family, will be always known as a brand, will have a residual value which is at the best level because of our history. And this is very important, of course.
- [29:31]
C
And those are all the intangibles that you can't put on a spec sheet. They are the things that just make people feel and respond in a certain way.
- [29:38]
D
Yeah, there are a lot of stories I listened since we launched R5. Yes, it was a car I took to make my driving license. It was a car of my father, it was a car of my cousin. It was a car where I went out for the first time. And all those stories, of course, you can't replace it when you are a newcomer.
- [30:00]
C
I live in Oxford and within, I'd say, a 50 meter radius, I have four neighbours with four Renault 5s and four different colours. Four different colours. There's a black, a white, a green and a yellow.
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D
Really?
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C
Yeah, yeah. So I understand that this sort of choosing an icon has to be treated with extreme caution. However, if I don't ask this question, I know someone in the comments will. Given the original design story of the Twingo, which was based loosely but still based on the Espace, is that the next icon that's going to be electrified?
- [30:34]
D
We didn't decide yet. I think in Europe we have a lot of challenges in the coming years. First of all, we have to consolidate our leadership on the A and B segment. I think we already began the job with R5, R4. The renewal of Clio and now the arrival of Twingo. That's our first objective for this year. The second objective, which is even more important, is you don't see that still. But we made a lot of work to increase and be credible on the C and D segment. With the launch in the last years of Scenic, of Megane Electric, with the launch of Espace with the launch of Austral, with the launch of Rafal. And those cars are already a great success. They have a good value, a good residual value. But we have to build on that because I would say that the first generation, which is working and we have to reconfirm that with the second wave of launches we will do in the coming years. And this is our objective regarding the arrival of a new icon. It's not decided yet, but. Okay, let's try to. We will try to surprise you.
- [32:04]
C
For anyone who wants to put in their bets, please write them in the comments. I think that's what we need to ask for. Hey, y'.
- [32:15]
D
All.
- [32:15]
C
As a growing family, my husband and
- [32:17]
B
I love game night, especially when it's Wayfair edition.
- [32:20]
A
Let's do it. You gotta name as many Wayfair furniture and decor categories as you can. Ready, Go.
- [32:26]
C
Sofas, bar stools, beds, ottomans, outdoor seating, bookshelves, kitchen tables, garden sheds, mid century modern lamps. Time.
- [32:34]
D
Nice.
- [32:35]
A
You got nine out of a lot. Not too bad. Keep practicing by visiting Wayfair.com where you can shop every style for every home.
- [32:42]
C
Wayfair. Every style, every home. So I want to ask you a little bit about Dacier because you are responsible for both brands and whilst we've spoken a bit about Renault, how actually your customers are very unified in terms of priorities, the value, the efficiency, the cost, the comfort, etc. It must be difficult with the arrival of the new spring, the refresh spring and Twingo coming to market at the same time that actually they don't sort of compete for each other's customers. How do you sort of square that potential for overlap and competition between the two brands?
- [33:14]
D
I think our positioning are really, really different. We have a lot of studies in terms of cannibalization because of course we are monitoring the potential overlapping between brands. And frankly speaking, between Renault and Dacia there is almost zero cannibalization. Sometimes you have more cannibalization inside the brand than between the brand. And in terms of positioning, I think the DNA of Dacia is also very clear. The price brackets are truly different. There is one thing for me which is a benchmark in Dacia is this capacity to have a very low level of distribution cost. It means the price you see is the price you pay. And this is for me, view from Renault side, a benchmark we try to, we try to imitate because it's a real good asset visa business model of Dacia to be very, very productive, insightful, present to the customers with a very, very low distribution cost. In terms of product, no overlapping.
- [34:29]
C
How would you describe the relationship between the two brands? Are they siblings, cousins, totally estranged, strangers?
- [34:35]
D
No, we are all part of the Renault group. In my position of Chief Growth Officer, I think it was important to let the independence of each brand, but to be able to put in common what should be the best interest for the group. And for that I didn't create an oval level. I decided just in terms of the way we are working with the CEO of Dacia and with the team of Dacia's team is that we share a few meetings during the month. The analysis of the commercial results, the financial committee, the net pricing committee, where we decide the price increase and the level of viable commercial means, you have to put in terms of commercial actions. And we do that together because it's very important not to have trade off one month later. Now we are doing cars in two years. We need to take decision with a very, very reduced time lapse. And that's why just the fact that we are sharing diagnostic, we are deciding the main levers of the commercial policy together and we are looking at our financial results together. Is the good mean without too many administrative additional tasks to share, to progress and to converge. And that's what I'm trying to do. It means I'm working as a CEO of ronauborand and then I'm animating those three, four meetings during the month, just in order to align all the brands. And this is working very well. And on the other hand, all what they are doing in terms of product, in terms of strategy, in terms of brand markers are really in the territory of the brand. And I let them work on the way they want to give to their brands.
- [36:41]
C
So it seems like there's a lot that can be sort of that shared learning between the two brands.
- [36:46]
D
Yes, you can share learning, you can bench, you can compare financial results, you can articulate your balance between volumes, pricing, CO2, emissions. This is a way we are working. It means brand will remain the core of our driver in terms of strategy. But of course. We have to hunt as a pack.
- [37:15]
C
So something that our audience get extremely excited about is vehicle to grid, something that Renault, the Renault 5 in particular, has been, I think, pretty bold in saying how it's going to enable vehicle to grid. However, we also see that actually the issues are not necessarily with the automakers, but with the legislation that exists around this technology. If you could just suddenly be in charge of vehicle to grid, what are the things that you'd ask for in order to make it that much Easier to deploy.
- [37:43]
D
I like vehicle to grid because people who are using this, this technology are a kind of entrepreneur. Usually they don't have not only a car, they have solar panels, they manage the charge and discharge of the car, they are following what will, what are the financial, financial impacts of this policy and so on. Now, for me, it's a very, very interesting technology which is deeply linked to the fact that a pure BEV in terms of cost of usage should be in the future, each time cheaper, each time more affordable. And that's why for me, the is one of the key assets to accelerate the transition towards a pure bv. If I had a possibility to change something, I think this kind of technology needs a lot of partnering because you need electricity suppliers, you need infrastructure, of course, you need technology in the car. If I would like to change something is perhaps to cancel all the administrative barriers. You have to put all those actors together just in order to be, at the end, more efficient for everybody. Because a good usage of vehicle to grid is a benefit for the collectivity and the owner of the car at the same time, which is very good.
- [39:21]
C
I suppose that's the key challenge, that it does require that huge collaboration in order to make the admin seem worth it or to indeed to get over some of those hurdles. But for that to happen, all of the different stakeholders really acutely have to understand the value. And that's where it seems to be a bit of a minefield as well.
- [39:37]
D
Yeah, it's a kind of stock you have to manage and yes, of course, of course. That's why for me, it's very complicated. At the beginning, we made successfully a test on the closed environment in Utrecht. In Utrecht, we've been to visit.
- [39:56]
C
Yeah.
- [39:58]
D
And I think after one year of usage, it works, it works very well. People are satisfied. But we are working in a closed environment now. We have to open this environment to everybody and that's where all the administrative barriers, partnering and so on are taking time. And I hope we'll be able, for instance, to do that in UK in the future coming months. Because in UK it could be also very, very interesting.
- [40:26]
C
Our audience will be absolutely thrilled when that does happen. Now, looking forward to 2026. You are an incredibly busy person. What's on your sort of major top three things that you need to address this year?
- [40:41]
D
I think first of all, we have to go on with the product momentum and we have still a bunch of launches to manage, beginning with Twingo, but not only for Dacia, it will be also a very important year in terms of number of launches. This is my first objective, to secure those smooth launches at the best level of quality. That's the main point. I would say that the second point which is important is our international expansion. In 2023, we announced Renault International Gameplan with eight new models. We already launched five, but we want to accelerate with a special focus on India and Latin America. I would say that's my second main objective. The third is to be confident in the preparation of the new C and D segment cars we will launch in the coming years. There is a product preparation we have to do here. And the last point is, I would say, to enhance all the job we did with the product, with a customer experience, which will be different from all the other competitors. And for me, a good customer experience is a customer experience which is, of course, giving satisfaction to the final customer, but not only that, which is enabling us to get even more loyalty from our customers on a long distance. In terms of time, I would aim to have 80% of loyalty on 10 years, all activities together. New car, used car repair, charging, ecosystem. This is an objective which is very important. And I think when you have a good customer experience, you can also decrease your distribution cost. And if you decrease your distribution cost, you can decrease the price of the cars. This is the four goals.
- [42:49]
C
And if I could grant you one magic wish that would make some of those things exponentially easier, it can be however outrageous you want. What would you ask for?
- [43:00]
D
I would say it's very complicated, because if you give me this capacity, I would ask so many things.
- [43:08]
C
It could be one thing with many, many, many, many bullet points.
- [43:11]
D
Then, no, no. I think Renault has all the means to become a global brand with very good interaction with what we are doing in Europe and what we are expanding out of Europe. And for that, it would be very interesting to have a very safe and predictable geopolitical situation. And that's. If I had a magic power. It's exactly what I would ask.
- [43:46]
C
And that I feel is a perfect note to end on, because I think we could have a whole second, third, fourth podcast on creating a safe geopolitical environment for the automotive industry. For sure. Fabrice, thank you so much for joining us on this podcast. Thank you so much for your candor and level of detail to the answers that you've provided. So hugely appreciated. And I personally can't wait to join the Twingo launch later this year.
- [44:10]
D
Okay, let's meet in Ibiza for the Twingo launch.
- [44:14]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [44:14]
D
Thank you very much.
- [44:15]
C
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A
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C
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- [44:30]
A
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C
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- [44:34]
A
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C
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A
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- [44:52]
C
Thank you again to Renault and Fabrice, and if you enjoyed that discussion, then please do make sure to check out some of our other podcast episodes as well. But that is all that we have time for. If you have been, thank you for listening.