Everything Electric Podcast

Episode: Why Clean Energy Will Always Win (Eventually...) with CleanTechnica

Host: Robert Llewellyn (The Fully Charged Show)
Guest: Scott Cooney (Co-Founder, CleanTechnica)
Date: December 15, 2025

Episode Overview

In this dynamic episode, Robert Llewellyn connects from Sydney with Scott Cooney, CleanTechnica’s co-founder tuning in from Honolulu, Hawaii. Their conversation spans the global transformation toward clean energy, the shifting geography of innovation, local and international examples of sustainable progress, and why economic realities—more than anything else—ensure clean tech will continue to outcompete fossil fuels. With wit, real-world anecdotes, and memorable asides, Robert and Scott break down why clean energy solutions are becoming both inevitable and unstoppable.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Birth of CleanTechnica & Hawaii as a Clean Tech Use Case

• Scott recounts CleanTechnica’s origins in a windowless San Francisco office in 2009, and the move to Hawaii, where renewable adoption is supercharged due to high energy costs and geographical isolation.

  • Quote: “I started this out of a windowless office in San Francisco back in 2009... moved to Hawaii and live out here. It’s beautiful. And EV adoption is high. Solar adoption is high. Electricity prices are very high. So everything clean tech makes a lot of sense.” – Scott (04:00)

• Hawaii’s isolation makes fossil fuels uniquely expensive, giving local legs to renewables and creating short payback periods for solar and heat pumps.

2. Global Clean Tech Leadership: From California to China

• Robert reflects on visiting California in the early 2000s, witnessing the explosion of solar, batteries, and EVs. But now, China leads on manufacturing and innovation.
  • Quote: “The movement of electric vehicles started in California... but the amazing development that’s happened in the last five years has not happened in the United States—it’s happened in China.” – Robert (06:00)
• Scott details China’s meteoric clean tech advancement:
  • Wind turbine feats (“two-headed dragons of wind turbines”).
  • Solar cost collapse driven by Chinese manufacturing.
  • Clean energy exports now over 10% of China’s GDP.
  • Quote: “They’re being called the first electro-state superpower... their clean energy exports this year represent more than 10% of their entire GDP. That blows me away.” – Scott (08:00)

3. Local Clean Energy Success Stories: California & Europe

• California’s economic power, despite lacking fossil resources, leads to massive investment in solar, wind, and energy efficiency:

  • In 2022, achieved 100% clean energy state-wide for brief periods.
  • Averaging 7 hours a day at 100% clean energy in 2025.
  • Quote: “If you took California as a country... it was the fourth biggest economy in the world... because it is completely committed to powering itself and to driving itself.” – Scott (11:00)

• Europe detailed as a model, especially UK's transition from coal to offshore wind:

  • UK offshore wind now regularly supplies above 40–45% of annual electricity.
  • Denmark, UK, Germany, Chile cited as countries cutting fossil imports dramatically.
  • Quote: “Denmark had cut [fossil imports] by more than half, which was cool... And how did they do it? Duh! They built solar and did energy efficiency. It’s not rocket science.” – Scott (15:00)

4. The Relentless Improvement of Batteries, EVs, and Clean Tech

• Battery breakthroughs—U.S. companies like Factorial and Solid Power making solid-state leaps.
  • Business, not just tech, is driving these advances.
  • Quote: “You make a better battery, it’s just business... It will help move the battery conversation forward and answer a lot of the... challenges that we have.” – Scott (17:40)
• Example: Robert’s original Mitsubishi i-MiEV with 60-mile range—a modern battery could quadruple that in the same space.
• Storytelling around CFL bulbs giving way to LEDs as an analogy for how clean tech quickly goes from “clunky” to invisible standard.
  • Quote: “Here in the US, we had this big fight about whether or not we should transition to energy efficient lightbulbs... LEDs came along... solved all the problems. Moving on, next problem.” – Scott (19:40)

5. Clean Tech Economics Always Win

• Economic reality—keeping energy spend local, employing people, and not exporting capital to buy fuel are the main drivers for global embrace of renewables.
• Governments, like the UK, start taxing EVs (“3p per mile road tax”) in response to lost fuel tax revenues, marking a cultural and business shift accompanying EV adoption.
• Incentives for EVs in places like Hawaii: free parking, HOV lane access, waived taxes (all phased out as adoption soared).
  • Quote: “It was great... got the ball rolling... But culturally, these shifts will happen, and then in a little while people won’t even notice that 3p per mile kind of thing because they’re saving so much money in other places.” – Scott (46:55)

6. The Rise of Chinese Clean Tech Companies

• BYD’s ascendancy: from 49th to 3rd largest automaker in five years, exponential growth in trucks and buses.
  • Quote: “BYD is... the third biggest automaker in the world now... In 2019 they were 49th. As of 2024, third. Talk about exponential growth.” – Scott (48:49)
• Real-world impact: thousands of electric London buses built by BYD, dramatic air quality improvements.

7. Distributed Energy Storage & Electrification at Scale

• Australia leads in home batteries, incentivizing mass adoption alongside rooftop solar.
• Utrecht, Netherlands shows the vision of bi-directionally-charging EV fleets now becoming real.
• School bus innovation: The startup Zum in California electrifies school buses, using them as grid batteries and delivering both social (safer, quieter transport) and technical benefits:
  • Quote: “This bus, the batteries are humongous... powers the grid during peak demand... and they’re all bi-directional, powering the school plus selling electricity to the grid.” – Scott (32:00)

8. The Next Clean Tech Frontiers

• Appliances with built-in batteries: From refrigerators with two-day backup to induction stoves that charge when solar is abundant, both for energy savings and resilience.
• The Copper induction stove: plugs into 110V, stores energy, eliminates need for complex wiring, solves air quality, efficiency, and user experience.
  • Quote: “It’s just human-centered design is so genius. You plug it into a 110, you’re good to go... And I saw this and I was like, I love that they’ve just solved all these problems.” – Scott (54:25)

9. The Myth of “Gridmelting” and the Reality of Self-Powered Growth

• Data centers and AI sparking new “energy crises”—but on-site solar and battery storage, especially in decentralized locations, already offer the answer.
  • Quote: “Whenever something is a technological problem, I tend not to worry about it... The economics alone will drive somebody to create something that does something that solves the problem in all the ways.” – Scott (38:30)
• Iceland and other renewables-rich nations attracting data centers needing abundant, clean, and cool energy.

10. Electric Ferries, Shipping, and the Global Transport Puzzle

• Anticipation for electric ferries and even ocean-going ships powered by batteries (with Catl, China, leading the way).
  • 40% of shipping currently moves oil, marking an immense decarbonisation opportunity.
  • Quote: “…they are saying ocean-going electric ships are within sight... The one thing the dirtiest thing we’re all still doing is shipping. 40% of it to move oil!” – Robert (57:43)

11. The Electric Home Show—inspiration, community, and on-the-ground solutions

• Scott is launching the Electric Home Show in Hawaii (April 24-26, 2026), focused on household electrification: induction, heat pumps, e-bikes, and more.
• Bill McKibben to keynote; emphasis on touch-and-feel experience and knocking down barriers to mass adoption.
  • Quote: “His [McKibben’s] book Deep Economy sort of shifted my trajectory in life... It’s electrichomeshow.com and yeah, should be a lot of fun.” – Scott (61:36)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “[China is] being called the first electro-state superpower… their clean energy exports this year represent more than 10% of their entire GDP. That blows me away.” – Scott (08:00)
• “If you don’t have those [fossil] resources, why would you send your money out of your country?… This is not hard.” – Scott (14:23)
• “You make a better battery, it’s just business… It will help move the battery conversation forward.” – Scott (17:40)
• “[The electric school bus] is like an LED on crack… it solves so many challenges.” – Scott (31:05)
• “BYD... In 2019 they were 49th. As of 2024, third. Talk about exponential growth.” – Scott (48:49)
• “Everything takes a long time and then it’s done.” – Scott, on the tipping points of mass adoption (26:07)
• “Just like California and the redwoods... nature does inspire.” – Scott, discussing Hawaii and sustainable mindsets (62:44)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:38] — Scott’s background, CleanTechnica’s founding, why Hawaii is a sustainability hotspot
• [06:00] — Transition of global clean tech leadership from California to China
• [10:46] — California’s 100% clean energy milestone; statewide and global economic implications
• [14:23] — The economics behind reduced fossil fuel imports and local energy investments
• [17:40] — Advances in solid-state batteries and innovation driven by business incentives
• [19:40] — LED vs CFL: How clean tech gets rapidly better and adopted
• [32:00] — Electric (bi-directional) school buses: nationwide rollout, social and technical gains
• [38:30] — Data center demands, “grid melt” myths, on-site renewables as the answer
• [48:49] — BYD’s rocket growth as the third-largest automaker worldwide
• [54:25] — Human-centered design: Copper induction stove and beyond
• [61:33] — The Electric Home Show: Focus, speakers, and vision

Tone & Style

Robert and Scott’s conversation is marked by:

• Warmth and humor (“I’m in the multiverse! I exist in all planes and dimensions...” – Scott, 03:45)
• A sense of wonder at rapid tech progress, coupled with pragmatic optimism (“Everything takes a long time and then it’s done...” – Scott, 26:07)
• Real-world context, skepticism of hype, with hands-on knowledge
• Human focus: how clean tech actually feels and what it changes in people’s lives

Summary Takeaways

• Clean energy’s victory is being driven by raw economics: local jobs, local capital, and ever-plummeting hardware costs.
• Innovation is global: China’s manufacturing scale, California’s policy leadership, European offshore wind, and distributed storage in Australia show the battle is now everywhere.
• The stories of technology adoption (EVs, batteries, buses, appliances) follow an “S-curve”: slow, then sudden ubiquity.
• Human-centered design, and making sustainability the default, are rapidly changing even the most everyday tech at home and in transit.
• The psychology of news can hype backlashes, but the numbers don’t lie: adoption curves continue, new businesses soar, and society gets cleaner, healthier, and more resilient.
• The future is electric, local, and quietly revolutionary—a transformation hiding in plain sight.