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The Fundraising Masterminds Podcast
112. The Journey of the Faithful Steward: The Key to Relationship Development [Development 101]
00:47:40
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- [00:00]
A
You're listening to the number one podcast for nonprofit leaders getting your nonprofit fully funded. This is the Fundraising Masterminds podcast.
- [00:11]
B
Moves management from a secular standpoint is just taking people from point A to point B to point C, all the way to point Z, which is getting as much money as they possibly can.
- [00:24]
A
When it can become across as manipulating. Like, you're Absolutely. I've had people, they might think, well, that seems kind of strange that you want to have a relationship with someone in order to get more money out of them in the long run.
- [00:37]
B
If your sole motivation is to get money from someone, don't do it. Look for another occupation, look for another effort, or stay out of development. Average life expectancy of someone in development is 18 months. And I can tell you, 40 years later, I wouldn't be in development if it was all about the money.
- [00:58]
A
Welcome back to another episode here at the Fundraising Masterminds podcast. My name is Jason Galasinski, and with me, my co host, Jim Dempsey.
- [01:05]
B
Hi, Jason.
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A
Well, Merry Christmas, Jim.
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B
Merry Christmas. I can't believe. Here we are, the 24th of of December already. Unbelievable.
- [01:13]
A
It's crazy how time flies. It's going to be 2026 before we know it.
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B
I know, I know. The year's gone by fast. Do you have any great plans for Christmas with your family?
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A
Well, for Christmas, we usually just, you know, sleep in open gifts. Although we do have this really cool tradition where there's this one song that when my kids were little, it start off with. It's a. It's a violin song. It was back when they were learning the violin.
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B
Wow.
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A
But. And it's just like kind of this epic beginning with church bells. So we always, like. I don't know why, but a few years ago, we. We, you know, started Christmas with that particular song, like, at like, seven in the morning. We just, like, crank it. And so, like, the whole, like, house is like all these church bells and, like, this cool sound. And then as the bigger kids got older, you know, hey, I. We really liked it when you opened that, and it made it feel really magical or whatever. So now they always make sure that.
- [02:10]
B
We do that tradition. I love that. I feel like, you know, just taking that myself and just using that. Well, you know, what people don't realize about you, Jason, this is the other side that we never see of you, is that you have a really gifted musical family. In fact, you guys are like the Van Trapp family. I mean, all. It's like all 10 of you are, you know, just immersed in music, especially the Bigs. You've got bigs, middles and, and littles and the bigs. I mean, you've got a family band which people don't even realize. And it's a gifted family band. I'm not talking about, you know, little symbols and maracas and, and kazoos. I mean, you guys have a very, very gifted family and that's what I think people don't even realize about you. So that, that sounds like what a great tradition. I love that. So that's neat.
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A
Well, when the big kids were, were little, you know, we, we put them in violin lessons and they just really loved it.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So, you know, there's always that search for new teachers and, you know, keeping them. So it was a long journey. There was a, about a seven or eight year journey where we were going to Nashville and doing some pretty intense music training.
- [03:21]
B
Wow.
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A
All that stuff is actually documented@galasinskyfamilyband.com if you want to look at it.
- [03:27]
B
Hey, I never want to pull people away from our YouTube, but boy, there's a Galasinski family YouTube channel and if you get a chance, those listening. Flip over there. After you get done watching this episode, flip over there. I, I think you're going to be very, very impressed at what you hear.
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A
Yeah, well, actually one of the very last music videos that we recorded as a family, this was several years ago as one of our projects in the school. It was called oh Holy Night.
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B
Oh, wow.
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A
And, and it was all them singing and some of the bigger kids did the arranging for it. And so we recorded this, this pretty epic thing. We always put it up around Christmas time because it still blesses people.
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B
Yeah, you know that.
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A
But the bigger kids are, you know, out of school now and so they're more focused on other things. Yeah, but, but yeah, it was, it was a special. I love time.
- [04:17]
B
I love it. Well, we've got some great topic to cover today. You want to lead us into that?
- [04:24]
A
So the episode today is called the Journey of the Faithful. Stewart. The Key to Relationship Development. This is going to be part of our Development 101 series that we started a few months ago. But really the idea of this episode is that we're talking about the difference between the transactional view of fundraising that focuses on moving partners from one level to the other at the cost of the relationship.
- [04:49]
B
I love it. We always talk about the difference between transactional and transformational. So finding that balance is so important because there are some interestingly important aspects of the transactional that we, we don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. But really we want people to be thinking about the transformational side of things. So we're going to talk today about finding that balance between the two.
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A
Yeah, it's really more of an attitude really than a logistical thing. Because, you know, if you've had a call with me in the past or you're part of our programs, you know, we, we talk about the development model a lot. Right. And the development model is always about moving, know, from one level to the next.
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B
It's a journey.
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A
But some people look at that as, aren't you just manipulating people? Aren't you just getting to know people so that you can manipulate them to the next level? Isn't that really what this is? And if you just look at it purely from a data perspective, you know, it might seem like that.
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B
Right.
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A
But if you have the right heart and you understand some of the concepts we're going to talk about today.
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B
Yep.
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A
It's a completely different mindset.
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B
Absolutely.
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A
So hopefully we'll be able to do it justice on this episode.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And I think this will be a good reminder to anyone in our programs of like, what, what we're actually trying to do.
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B
Right.
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A
As a long term approach of building relationships. But also it is a difference between like manipulation versus motivation or transactional versus relational. The end result might be the same, but the way you get there is different.
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B
Yeah. So I love it. I love it.
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A
All right. So this topic of the Journey of the Faithful Stewart actually originated from this book, Development 101. If you haven't read book or you know anything about this book, we highly recommend that you check it out. We'll put a link to it in our description so you can go purchase your own copy. But if you're a development director for a nonprofit organization and you have not read this book, you should probably read this book. Yeah, there's a lot of really good insightful things in here, like very good paradigm shifting mindsets and. Well, and also this episode, the Journey of the Faithful Stewart, is going to be a part of our new Collection of Development 101.
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B
Yeah. This is a continuation of the episode that we've done in the past on One Development 101. This will add to our library, as you just said. Yeah.
- [07:20]
A
So if you haven't listened to the first two episodes that we've done on Development 101, go back and listen to that. Those are going to kind of set the stage for this episode. But this episode we're really going to drill down into the concept that our partners are stewards.
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B
Right.
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A
Now, the first couple episodes we were talking about just what is the difference between a partner and a donor? Right. So if you don't even understand that, then it's going to be hard for you to understand the idea of partners or stewards.
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B
And just a disclaimer. There's oftentimes we will use the term donor, but it's just like I prefer the term friend raising to fundraising, but in the industry, for people to understand, I'll use fundraising, but I also use the term donor because when I start to say partner, people don't always understand what I'm talking about.
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A
So the first key principle in this book that we wanted to draw out are that partners are stewards. So, Jim, can you talk about what it means to be a steward?
- [08:16]
B
Well, first of all, as we've said many times before, if you've listened to this broadcast, you have seen that God owns it all. We know that. And we give God all the credit and the glory that he owns it all, but he entrusts it in our hands to steward those resources. So that makes us a steward of God's resources. That is our role on earth. One of the big roles is us to steward God's plans, possession, and God's property. So it's important for us to understand what God's role is, but it's also important for us to understand what our role is. And yes, that's that. I know I'm a steward, you are a steward. But our major partners are our stewards as well. And in fact, they really, they're bigger stewards than we are because God has entrusted them for a reason, that he's entrusted them with more than the average person. And it's important for us to know that their, their heart and their desire is, if they are followers of Christ, is to be good stewards of those resources. And part of that is giving that money back to God. It sounds weird, it sounds strange that you're giving it back to God. But if you look at scripture and we understand where God is coming from, it's important for us to understand that God wants us use our, our money. It's. That's his money that's in our possession. Give it towards the kingdom and give it towards the church and ministries that are furthering the gospel. So those things are so important.
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A
Some key scriptures here are. Psalm 24:1 says, the earth is the Lord's and everything in it, the world and all that we live in it.
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B
Well, yeah, thanks, Jason. I mean, Psalm 24:1. I mean, it's hitting capsize. It says it all. God owns everything. And the concept is important to understand and remember is that God is not owning and selling it to us. God is asking us to steward his resources. So in other words, if God owned a farm and he called us and said, jason, I would like for you to be a caretaker. I would like you to be a steward of my farm. He's not transferring ownership over to you. He still owns it, but he wants you to manage it. That's really what we're talking about. So we're stewards of all of God's creation. That's the responsibility that God's given us. So it's important to us to look as we are believers. I mean, this is a lifetime journey, Jason, that we have as stewards. And as I said earlier, our major partners, especially, they've got a greater responsibility in that lifetime journey to manage that money. And God's given them the skills and abilities to make a lot of money, so they've got an even greater responsibility.
- [11:18]
A
Well, I'm going to read a section from the book. This is right out of chapter two. It says. And this really sums up the concept that you were just saying, but it says, this is what we believe. God is concerned with how each of us lives our lives as disciples of God and stewards of everything he gives us.
- [11:35]
B
Terrific. Yeah. I love that.
- [11:37]
A
This requires a relationship with him. The single goal of the steward is to know and do the will of the owner, the one for whom we steward resources.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So this is really going back to Jesus. Parable of the. The vineyard.
- [11:51]
B
Yep. Right.
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A
So he put servants in charge of the vineyard, and then he went away for a while, and then he wanted to come back and eat some of the fruits of his vineyard. And of course, there were unfaithful stewards of that vineyard. Right. And they ended up up killing the people that came back. And eventually he sent his Son. And Jesus used this parable to talk about his own son and how basically the earth is the vineyard.
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B
Right.
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A
And all the resources and the. The people he entrusted them to were not faithful with that responsibility.
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B
Yep. Right.
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A
So then when the Son came back, they decided to kill him because they wanted to use those resources for themselves.
- [12:32]
B
Right.
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A
That parable was an example of an unfaithful steward, of someone trying to take the resources that God had given them.
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B
Yep.
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A
They didn't understand that God really owned that, and they felt like they should own it and they should do whatever they want with It. But in reality, it. The reality was, is that God was the one that actually entrusted that to them. And somehow they got in their head that they owned it.
- [12:56]
B
Right.
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A
But they really didn't own it.
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B
Right.
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A
So that's what we're talking about here.
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B
Right? Absolutely. Well, one of the things that really struck me as you read that is that an important part of being a steward is understanding the desires of the owner. How does the owner want those possessions to be cared for? So that means that as stewards, we've got to have a close relationship and a close connection with God as owner and make sure we understand how he wants us to steward those resources. And we run the risk of going off and doing it ourselves. God stewards us, and we just spend it like crazy and spend it on goofy things. I mean, certainly that's what the prodigal son did, right? He took the father's inheritance and went out and spend it on prostitutes and alcohol and all kinds of unsavory activities. And we've got to make sure that we don't do those same kinds of things. So there's a great responsibility to being a steward.
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A
Jason okay, I understand the idea that we're stewards of what God has given us, but how does this relate to development and development 101 principles?
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B
Well, it's important to understand what the overall goal of development is, and it's important that we, as representatives for our ministry, but really representatives of the body of Christ, is to come alongside and work with the stewards. So as we meet with our major donors, we need to find out, first of all, what are their desires, what's their heart? Because if they're doing their job right, they're connecting with God, understanding what the desires of the owner is, and they are translating that back to us. And so it's important that, as we've talked about in the past, it's more important to listen than to speak. You want to find out what are their desires, what makes them weep and pound the table. Because when we find out what those things are, we're going to help them steward their money wisely and get the money to those hearts and passions. I've talked often about finding that intersection between someone's passions and desires, desires and what God's placed on their heart and where our mission is. And when you can find that intersection, that's your sweet spot. You're like our partner or the steward wants these things. We do some of those things. Let's partner together and accomplish what God ultimately wants us to do. So that's where.
- [15:36]
A
Let me see if I can understand this or reframe it from a donor's perspective. So I'm a. I'm a regular guy. I work at a corporate job. But I have a heart for college students.
- [15:48]
B
Right.
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A
You know, to share the gospel with college students. Because when I was a college student, somebody shared the gospel with me, and it really impacted my life and changed the trajectory of things. So I have a. I have a heart for those people, but I'm busy working.
- [16:03]
B
Right, Right.
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A
So I. I can't be on college campuses sharing the gospel or doing, you know, maybe I. I used to do that when I was younger, but now I've got a family and, you know, so. But I have a heart for that. So what you're telling me is because you know that I have a heart for that and you have opportunities to, you know, through crew, we've got thousands.
- [16:27]
B
Of individuals who are on college campuses every day sharing the gospel. Right.
- [16:32]
A
So tell me how you would approach me as a donor to give me the opportunity to steward my money. Well.
- [16:39]
B
Well, you set me up for a great partnership, Jason, because here's the graphic artist who has a heart for college students but doesn't have the time, the ability, the capacity to be on a college campus. And I've got a ministry where that has staff on college campuses, on thousands of college campuses around the world. And what a better. But I don't necessarily have the resources to keep those out there. I need the financial resources. You've got the financial resources. I've got the people. What a perfect match and a perfect pair. That's what we're looking at.
- [17:19]
A
I understand the idea of a potential marriage between the opportunity and the giver, but how do you solidify that marriage?
- [17:28]
B
Yeah, well, Jason, as you and I have talked about a million times, we cannot just walk up to a individual who we would love to date and love to marry and say, can I marry you right away and get a yes response. It takes a courtship. It takes a process. It is a journey to get from our first date to a long, healthy marriage. All that is a journey, and you need to start somewhere. And that oftentimes starts with a conversation. Just as your first date with Jennifer was. Let's get to know each other a little bit. Do we have similar interests? And then, okay, yes, we're together on some things. Let's talk further. Let's go deeper. We do the exact same things with our partners. The first meetings with our partners are just getting to know them a little Bit what are their interests, what are their desires? And it's important for us to have our development eyes open and to be thinking about, are there ways that we are together? Because marriage may be in our future, but it might take a journey and it's important for us. We could just. You could pull out your first date with Jennifer. You could have pulled out a piece of paper and said, all right, step one says, talk to Jennifer. Step two says, find out where your parents were born. Step three says, please tell me what your life plans are. Step four are, how many kids do you want to have? Step five is, how soon do you want to get married? You could have followed that, but Jennifer probably would have been hightailing it out of the room pretty fast because all you were doing was just going through the steps. You didn't really have your heart in it. And that's the mistake that a lot of people who are doing fundraising, they go through a series of steps, but there's no real desire for connection. And I can tell you, Jason, that our partners read right through that. If we walk into a meeting and with the sole goal of just getting money from that person, they're going to read through it and say, thanks for the time, I appreciate it, but I've got other things to do. But if we genuinely go in there caring about the person, genuinely trying to find out, is there a marriage here? Do we genuinely, are there opportunities for us to partner together? You're a steward. I'm someone who can help you manage your possessions that God's given you in the best way possible. That makes for a perfect marriage. And so that includes a concept that we call moves management. And that's one of the concepts that both Frank and Roden talk about in their book. Book now. Moves management, Jason, is a secular term, a secular concept that we have taken on ourselves. But we don't stop with the secular concept of moving people along. We want to take them through a journey and a journey that cares about them, cares about where they're going. If I'm just simply moving into Moves Management, Moves Management from us, from a non profit, profit, secular standpoint, is just taking people from point A to point B to point C, all the way to point Z, which is getting as much money as they possibly can when.
- [21:16]
A
It can become across as manipulating like you're absolutely. I've had people where we've explained even maybe some of our Winner Circle members, you know, initially when we show them what we're trying to do here, they might think, well, that seems kind of strange that you want to have a relationship with someone in order to get more money out of them in the long run.
- [21:37]
B
Yeah. If that's your motivation, Jason, don't do it. I will encourage all of our listeners. If your sole motivation is to get money from someone, don't do it. Look for another occupation, look for another effort or stay out of development. Because I can tell you, Jason, that if I was all about only about the money, the average life expectancy of someone in development is 18 months. And I can tell you 40 years later, I wouldn't be in development if it was all about the money. I have loved and valued relationships with people and our ability to partner together. When you join hands with someone on both sides and other people in this journey, it is just amazing. Why is it, I mean, a terrific analogy is why is it when someone is lost in the ocean in, you know, in shallow water and it looks like someone's gone under, why do you, a number of people join hands and they push in to find that person? That's what we're doing together. We're joining hands to link arms with lost souls. I think Frank and Roden bring this up exceedingly well when they say, if you read the literature and attend trainings on moves management, you'll hear a lot of talk about building relationships and focusing on giving partners interests. However, most organizations see moves management as a process developed by the organization to use relationships as a means to an end securing a large gift. Because it is seen as a means, the talk of genuine relationship rings hollow. It is hard to build genuine relationships with people when you have a prescribed outcome. You must obtain from that relationship. And everything you do in building a relationship is focused on producing that end result. Jason, as followers of Christ, we want to do God's will. We want to further the kingdom of Christ. We want to. In crude terms, we want to help fulfill the Great Commission, which is ensuring that everyone hears the message of Jesus Christ. And we want to find individuals who are alongside with that. But I understand that God has given everyone a different desire and a different heart. That's why when someone says no to me, Jason, I don't take that personally because I know that that doesn't mean that that person is a sinner and that they really are not true believers. It means that God has given them a different desire. And I just need to go back out and find someone who does because I know that God's given me enough people.
- [24:32]
A
People. So it really boils down to the desire of the heart. Yes, in the Sense of. If me as a donor, it like, I donated to you because I went to an event, I got caught up in the emotion of it, but my heart really wasn't in it. But I. I gave because I. I enjoyed, you know, giving, and it was fine. But I'm not really. It's not really my thing, you know, Like, I'm not really that concerned with college students at college campuses. Then when you start building that relationship.
- [25:04]
B
With me or trying to build it.
- [25:06]
A
Yeah. You're gonna find out, like, early on, this guy is not really on the same page.
- [25:11]
B
He gave me a tip, you know, in a sense, actually, in this case, I actually like your term better donate. Because when you give, that's giving out of your heart and your desire. When you donate, there might be people.
- [25:25]
A
Who they, you know, they go to a dinner or something and they get caught up in the moment and they think, wow, this is really neat.
- [25:32]
B
Yep.
- [25:32]
A
But, you know, they're not necessari necessarily, like, have a heart for that. They might have a heart for something else. So. And it may not be your organization.
- [25:41]
B
Yeah.
- [25:42]
A
But on the flip side of that, if you do find someone who has a heart for college students and they are really excited about, you know, being able to partner with you, then in a sense, it kind of changes the. The motivation for that person to even work.
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B
Right.
- [25:59]
A
Because they might be thinking, seeing, wow, okay, the more money that I earn, the more people I can win. To the gospel.
- [26:05]
B
Absolutely.
- [26:06]
A
They see this as a. As a direct connection.
- [26:09]
B
Absolutely.
- [26:09]
A
So they. They might think, okay, well, I need, you know, so much money to live and accomplish my goals or whatever, but if I can, you know, earn another $10,000 or I can have this extra bonus here, I can do that thing there. Their motivation for getting those extra dollars is to win souls.
- [26:26]
B
That's right.
- [26:27]
A
Not to, you know, build their 401k or make themselves wealthy. They have a different, you know, motivation, and they can funnel that through you, which then turns them into a joyful steward.
- [26:37]
B
Right.
- [26:38]
A
Now they start to have joy and being able to give to you. Yeah, I. This actually happened to me. One of the people I took on a mission trip to Zambia, a young person, actually didn't expect him to react this way, but he went on the first trip, he was really kind of disillusioned and not too sure about the whole thing. And, And. But then the second trip that we. We took a year and a half later, he wanted to come back, and he was a lot more, like, zoned in on, like, wow, this is really cool. I want to be involved in this. And then ever since he got back from that second trip, he's actually been proactively reaching out to me with ideas of how he can help the kids and what we can do. He actually. He's starting a business right now. He's in his early 20s. 20s, but he was like, I want. I want part of my business to be giving an outpouring of how we can help these kids, you know, so he clearly has a heart for what we're doing.
- [27:40]
B
But, Jason, what did his excitement do to you?
- [27:44]
A
It got me. Yeah, it was. It was different because, you know, most of the time, I feel like I'm. I'm trying to, you know, get people to donate money.
- [27:56]
B
Yeah, you're. You're kind of on the end of having to convince people.
- [27:59]
A
I feel like I'm like a traveling salesman saying, like, this is really cool. You really want to be. And, like, he's coming to me going, I. This is. I really want to be involved in this. And I. And I wanna. He's, like, proactively.
- [28:12]
B
Yeah.
- [28:12]
A
Like, asking me, like, how can I use some of my business or my resources to. To help these kids.
- [28:18]
B
Yeah.
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A
And so it's like, I'm almost like, wow, he's. I don't feel like I have to pry anything out of him. Like, he.
- [28:24]
B
You moved it from transactional to transformational, Jason. You transformed his life, and that gave you life. And what did it do? It. It. It want you had. Now you now have a desire to give him more opportunities to keep him more excited. And it's not because you want his money. You see the joy that you have given him and not you. It's what God. How God has used your ministry, but that has given him joy, and that's given you joy, and that's development. That's a transformational relationship. Now it's almost like the money is secondary because you're seeing him being blessed, you're being blessed, and the kingdom is being reached. I mean, that's development. That's transformation. That's what we're talking about, Jason. Absolutely. And, Jason, using your analogy, we had a major donor weekend about five or six years ago, and an individual had just sold his business, and he was looking forward to heading into retirement. He accepted a challenge that we gave to give a million dollars to the kingdom to see college students reached. He went back to work. So here he is. He and his wife could be enjoying retirement. He went back to work. He took our response form that he signed and Committed it, put it in, taped it on his mirror. And every day, that was his goal, was he went back to work to make that million dollars, fulfill that commitment that he made to us, but he made it to God. And he got up every morning. That was his motivation every morning to say, I'm not into retirement right now. Now, after I get this million, then I'll retire. Well, guess what? This last April in Dallas, Texas, he came back and said, I'm ready for my second million. I'm going to work a little bit longer to do my second million.
- [30:32]
A
But so, like. So basically what you're saying is, for the first probably 50 years of his life, he was working for himself in the sense of storing up treasures, retirement, buying homes, doing what you should be doing, doing. But he had a realization that he really wasn't making a difference for the kingdom.
- [30:52]
B
Right.
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A
So now, you know, his idea of going back to work was like, I'm working for God.
- [30:57]
B
Right? Yeah. He had a different motivation.
- [30:59]
A
He was working for himself for money.
- [31:01]
B
Yeah. He was building up treasures. Right. But he wasn't building up treasures in heaven. Now he went back to work to build up that treasure chest for heaven. And it's a. It's a totally different way. So, Jason, you and I and our listeners have the opportunity to change people's lives. This is not. I mean, in a secular standpoint, it's transactional, but this is transformational, Jason. This is what gets me up every morning. This is why I'm excited about being in development for 40 years, because I get to play a role in lives being changed. So I wish I had tens of millions of dollars to give to the kingdom. I don't. But you know what I have. I'm a relationship person. I find people who have the money, and I give them the blessing of using their money. Money. And the fact that crew gets, you know, money from that, that's. That really is secondary. The fact that people are blessed and they get to be part of what God's doing. Boy, that's why. That's what gets me up in the morning. So, yeah.
- [32:04]
A
So really going back to. I think we mentioned this on one of the last episodes of Development 101. You talk about how development is ministry.
- [32:16]
B
Yes.
- [32:16]
A
And in a sense, you know, if you're just looking at it from a transactional perspective, you could be like, how is getting money from people ministry? But if you think of it in terms of the examples that we both use, yes. It's ministry in the sense that you're allowing people to Find their path to the Lord. Like, they're. You're allowing them to their purpose in life. You're allowing them to accomplish what God has called them to through your organization.
- [32:43]
B
Right, right.
- [32:44]
A
So if you run a Christian school school, and you find someone who has a heart for raising up the. The next generation, and they have, you know, a business or they have a way of getting resources, and they. They joyfully want to funnel that resources into your school. So your school becomes a mechanism for them being able to accomplish the goals that God has given them.
- [33:11]
B
Right.
- [33:11]
A
And we call that the journey of the faithful steward.
- [33:14]
B
Absolutely.
- [33:15]
A
So this whole idea of. Of the journey of the faithful steward is that we want to take our donors along this journey. Kind of like this young person I was talking about with Zambia, where, you know, when he first signed up for the mission trip, he was just a regular guy kind of being a little selfish, like, oh, it would be cool to go to Zambia. It'd be cool to get out of the country. There's a couple cute girls going. That's kind of cool too, you know, like, and. And, you know, I'll donate to them. It's fine. You know, but it kind of started off that way. Way. And then as he was there, you know, the, the mission and the, the mindset of the mission kind of spoke to his heart.
- [33:51]
B
Right.
- [33:51]
A
He had a transformation of mindset. The Lord grabbed his heart and. And now he has a desire to reach these kids in Africa.
- [34:01]
B
Right.
- [34:02]
A
Through what the Lord did to him on that. On that trip.
- [34:05]
B
Right. So now.
- [34:09]
A
My job as a development person is to give him those opportunities to allow him to fulfill his calling through our organization.
- [34:18]
B
That's right. Yeah.
- [34:19]
A
And so that's the journey we're talking about.
- [34:21]
B
That's the journey. Yeah. And in a way, we're kind of kidnapping the secular methods called moves management, and we are using it for our purposes, which is the journey. And that's the exciting part. There's a neat quote that they have in there that talks about this alternative to moves management. And Jason, you've got that in your book, and you. You pointed that out to me, if you don't mind reading that.
- [34:53]
A
Yeah. It says, in this place, we suggest a significantly different perspective that better reflects kingdom values. We call this perspective, quote, the journey of the faithful steward. It starts with an understanding that all followers of Christ are on a journey. Journey in which God is developing in them a heart of a faithful steward. Every person you label as a major gift partner is on that journey. You have the opportunity in this line of work to meet the rare but wonderful person who is well down the road of becoming a joyful, faithful steward. And when you do, you will be amazed at how different they look at their role, the value of money and the act of giving. It is pure joy to talk with a mature, faithful steward about how God might have them invest their resources into the kingdom work that you represent.
- [35:50]
B
Yeah, I love it.
- [35:51]
A
And this is what we're talking about, about the taking people on a journey from becoming a first time donor. And now they are joyfully wanting to invest in the kingdom work. So their motivation has changed.
- [36:07]
B
Now he's become a partner.
- [36:08]
A
You're not just drafting money from them. They're willingly coming and asking you, how can I be investing into your organization? Similar to like some of the scriptures that we read in the Old Testament where, you know, the people brought their gifts willingly to David to build the temple.
- [36:25]
B
Right.
- [36:25]
A
And there was great rejoicing because of what God had asked them to do. Yeah. Now we've talked a little bit about, you know, how moves management versus the journey of the steward, the faithful steward, how that differs. But Jim, give us a little bit of understanding of like what, what does development look like under this paradigm shift?
- [36:44]
B
Yeah, well, I think Frank and rodent say it well and let me go ahead and read it. Development work is a process of being used by God to help God's people move further and deeper in their journey of becoming more faithful and joyful stewards. If every development officer in every ministry would as their primary calling to be used by God to help their partners become more faithful stewards, we would see a revolution in generosity that would throw open the floodgates of heaven, that that is your calling, your privilege and your joy in doing this work. And that's a totally different mindset, Jason. And that's what you and I are talking about today in this broadcast. I get it. You've got to make payroll, you've got to pay your bills hard sometimes to do this mindset shift to I just need money to, I want to help people really fulfill their calling as stewards of God's resources. But you got to make that shift, Jason. It's not easy, but when you make it, you're going to find that paying those bills and everything else, that's going to take care of themselves when you make this bigger change.
- [38:02]
A
So really, you know, when we tie in, you know, the vision dinner and the winner circle and how all this kind of works together, you know, the vision dinner is kind of like taking people on that first date, you know, that's when they're coming in. They're going in kind of blind. They don't really know us at all. And we're, we're hoping that God will capture their heart and, you know, get their attention. Now there, a handful of people will just give because, you know, know, they, they felt inspired, but they're not really called to support your ministry. But there will be a handful of people that feel called to support your ministry long term. And your job as a development person or a leader of that nonprofit is to understand that your role is to not extract as much money out of them so that you get to do the work, but to include them in that process of allowing them, them to feel fulfilled in, in and through your organization. Right. So giving them the opportunity like this can literally play out in every type of ministry.
- [39:06]
B
Right. So I think the bigger thing to understand, Jason, too, is this is a total mindset shift. You may have heard our things and say, that's nice. Jason and Jim use fundraise, friend raising instead of fundraising. They use, you know, vision dinner instead of banquet. They use opportunity instead of need. But, Jason, it's not, it's not about semantics. It's not about just changing and softening and making terms warmer. It's about a mindset change. It's about your perspective on how you're looking things. So it's not a destination, it's a journey. And that's so important.
- [39:51]
A
It's really about love, really. At the end of the day, I think if you think about, you know, someone that you really love or something that you really love.
- [40:00]
B
Right.
- [40:01]
A
Your heart is in it.
- [40:02]
B
Right.
- [40:03]
A
So if I really, really, really love the, the work that Reaching the Heart of Zambia is doing, and I am in love with supporting that.
- [40:13]
B
Yeah.
- [40:13]
A
You know, then I'm. I'm motivated out of a love for what this ministry is doing. You know what I mean?
- [40:20]
B
Oh, absolutely. It's about caring, Jason. It really is. I mean, yes, if I was an evangelist and, and, and my goal was to get eight people to come to Christ by the end of the day, I mean, I could just burn through people and I could talk with my sales skills, whatever, I could talk people into saying yes, yes, but I would be doing it for the wrong reason. I'd be doing it for a goal of checking off how many believers I led to Christ. Or is it about loving someone into the kingdom? It's about caring about where they're going to spend eternity. That's so important. And use that same analogy with development, it's once again you could take checking off those boxes. I need $10,000 by the end of the day and I don't care who, who, how many calls I need to make and who I burn through to get that 10,000. Or is it about genuinely caring about someone, being a partner and being a good steward? From the perspective of Frank and Roden, I like some of the things because this is. I like some of the things they're saying because once again, it's that shift. It's not just words. There are no asks, there are only invitations. You're not applying pressure. You're inviting them to an opportunity guided by discernment and the Holy Spirit. Our job is to align their interests with areas of our work where there can be, where they can be best realized. It's that intersection. I coined the intersection. But they're saying the exact same kinds of things.
- [42:00]
A
I mean, it's, it's very similar to how a pastor would invite someone into the gospel. Oh, sure, there's a difference between the fire and brimstone kind of preaching to guilt someone into receiving Christ. But then there's the, also the inviting them to come home. Right. As a, you know, as a wanderer. Well, Jim, thank you. You've given us a lot to think about. And this is definitely a perspective change, a mindset change. It's amazing how you can have the same goal but a different mindset and how things can shift your thinking. But this idea of, of the, the journey of the faithful steward and how our job as development directors is to take people on that journey from transactional giving to transformational giving and how it affects them, you know, how their hearts are, you know, changed.
- [42:51]
B
Right.
- [42:52]
A
Let's talk about practical things. What are some practical things that we can do on a day to day basis that will really help us get people on that journey?
- [43:04]
B
Yeah, well, Jason, we've already kind of alluded to a number of these things. We've kind of talked to them, talked about them, and, and you know, I use the analogy of dating, getting to know person, people. That's the first thing we want to do is we want to begin to listen to people. It's so important to understand what the desires of their heart are. If they are in line with the, with the owner, that being God, then they've come a long way and we need to know that. But honestly, Jason, it's funny how many times I've had to say over the years, have you gone to the Lord with this? Do you feel like you're connected well with the Lord. A number of years back, I had someone say to me, jim, I am just inundated with appeals and can you help me prioritize? Well, of course, the first thing I said was, what is essentially, I didn't use these exact words, but I said, what's the desires of the owner who gave you this money? It's his money. And what is his desire? And he took a good amount of time and prayed with his wife and said, here's where I believe God is leading me priority wise. I said, now this is going to be easy now because we can use this as your way of siphoning out which organizations are in line so listening with them. Secondly, you've got to understand what God is doing in their life and saying to them their heart. Number three, you want to walk with them, Jason, it's important for them to just understand what God is doing and for you to understand where they're at. That's a good start. But you want to walk with them on this journey. You want to take them by the hand and walk with them so they understand more. Because maybe you see that there's marriage potential here, but they might not see that so quickly. So you need to walk with them. And lastly, you want to encourage them by challenging them to greater levels of stewardship. And what that means is providing them with opportunities and invitations once again, not asking, not making appeals, but providing invitations for them to participate in what God is doing. Let's partner together. God's doing amazing things. Let's partner together to see God work well.
- [45:23]
A
Thanks, Jim. I think we're going to wrap it up there. But if you've enjoyed this episode and learning about the faithful journey of the steward, definitely hit that like button that's on this podcast episode. Give us a thumbs up, a nice comment or something to let us know that what you appreciated about it, let us know like if this was a challenging concept to you or not, or if you think that we're coming crazy, just go nice on us. You know, don't write anything crazy in there, you know, but let us know, we'd love to interact with you about that. And, and if you're new to this podcast, definitely hit that subscribe button because we got a lot of great content coming out. And Jim, I know it's Christmas Eve and I'm sure people are listening to this podcast after Christmas. Hopefully most people are spending time with their family right now, as I know we are. This is a good concept to really come back to year after year.
- [46:18]
B
After year.
- [46:19]
A
I think as a development director, it's easy to, like, kind of get inspired by these kinds of things, and then, like, the rubber hits the road and you're like, well, but the bills are due. And I. The reality of money kind of like, gets you back into. I've got to get money now. And kind of, you can very easily fall back into the trap and of moves management or treating people like means to an end. And so I would be. I think it would be a cool episode. Maybe we'll do this another time, but I would be interested to know, like, how you keep yourself from falling down that trap as a development director, you know, for 40 years, I'm sure. I'm sure you haven't lived this out perfectly.
- [47:03]
B
No.
- [47:04]
A
So when you get off the road, you know, how do you know when you're off the road? How do you realign yourself back in? How do you keep yourself on the. The narrow, straight path? You know, I would love to know that, but we'll save that, you know, that topic for another day. But thank you guys for joining us on this episode of the Fundraising Masterminds podcast. We'll see you next time.
- [47:23]
B
Take care, Sam.