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- [00:00]
A
You're listening to the number one podcast for nonprofit leaders getting your nonprofit fully funded. This is the Fundraising Masterminds Podcast.
- [00:10]
B
See, if God wanted to, he could just line people up every few minutes, knocking on your door and say, jason, I don't know why I'm supposed to do this, but I'm supposed to give to reaching the heart of Zambia. I never heard about it, but God placed it on my heart. And I'm supposed to give you money? Is that okay? If God chose to do that, you gladly sit on the couch and accept the money. But God doesn't seem to work that way. He can do that, but God wants us to step out in faith.
- [00:43]
A
Well, welcome back to another episode here at the Fundraising Masterminds podcast. Welcome to 2025.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Can you believe that this year has already started?
- [00:53]
B
Yeah.
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A
If we're already through the holidays. And man, I had a great time with my family. How about you?
- [00:58]
B
I did, too. It was great. I just. Our daughter came down. It was just really nice to get some time.
- [01:04]
A
Well, I'm excited to get into this week's episode. We're going to be going back to the very beginning. Jim, do you remember the year we started the podcast?
- [01:12]
B
Wow. I'm going to say 20. Early 2023.
- [01:18]
A
Maybe February 2023.
- [01:19]
B
Okay. Wow.
- [01:21]
A
You believe that?
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B
So really, almost two years then.
- [01:24]
A
Yeah.
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B
Now in February, we're just a month away from two years.
- [01:26]
A
Yeah.
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B
Wow. Unbelievable.
- [01:28]
A
Yeah.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So one of the very first episodes we did, and I was looking quick before and I couldn't find it, but I think it was morphed into a topic of leadership. But I remember it was either episode one or episode two where we brought up this topic of the abundance mentality.
- [01:45]
B
Yes.
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A
I think it was something to the effect of leaders having. Have a scarcity mindset versus an abundant mindset and how important it is. So we thought, you know, we haven't talked about this abundance mindset in a while.
- [01:57]
B
Yeah.
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A
And how important it is to have this mindset when we're going in, especially at the beginning of the year. Right. We're very super optimistic. We have a lot of New Year's resolutions. We got all kinds of plans. We feel rested. We're ready to hit the ground running.
- [02:13]
B
Yeah.
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A
And. And I think it's just a great time to bring up the abundance mentality again.
- [02:18]
B
Absolutely. I think it's great. Yeah. Anyt. We're heading into a new year. It. It really is a. A topic where we've got to think about optimism. You know, you and I Talk about the euphemistic stinking thinking. We don't. We don't want to head into the year with this thinking. Thinking, which is that scarcity mentality.
- [02:36]
A
Yeah. I don't know if you remember this or not, but a few months ago, we brought on a special guest, Larry Onan.
- [02:41]
B
Yeah. That was like, end of August, I.
- [02:43]
A
Think it was, if I'm not mistaken. Yep. And he was talking about his book. Um, I actually have it right here. Um, he was talking about his book Intentional Living and Giving.
- [02:53]
B
Yeah.
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A
And I remember this was something that he wrote recently, and you wanted to share it with our audience.
- [02:58]
B
Larry was one of my mentors. I. I mentioned that in that broadcast, that when I came out into development 40 years ago, Larry had already been in development for 20 years at that time.
- [03:11]
A
Yeah.
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B
So, yeah. And he's. He's a prolific writer and author and just love this book.
- [03:18]
A
Yeah. So since that podcast, you know, I've been doing some reading.
- [03:22]
B
Nice.
- [03:23]
A
Decided to look into it since he was like, your master Yoda, you know, he's like, I feel like I know Jim now. I need to move on to his master.
- [03:31]
B
Sure.
- [03:32]
A
So I started reading through this and I was like, you know, there's a lot of good principles in here. So now I know where Jim gets this abundance mentality from.
- [03:40]
B
Yeah. A lot of those principles kind of bubbled up through Larry.
- [03:43]
A
So we're not going to beat around the bush. We're going to share five principles related to the abundance mentality, what we refer to as the abundance mentality in the book. Larry refers to it as God's five principles of wealth distribution, which is kind of crazy. So these five things are coming right out of this book. Intentional living and giving. We're going to put a link in the description. If you resonate with anything that we say today, we're not going to make any money off of this or anything. Just go ahead and click the link and go to Amazon or wherever you can find this book and get yourself a copy, because I think you're going to learn a lot.
- [04:18]
B
You know, Jason, you and I talk a lot about practices about how tos, because I think that's so important to give people step by step. But, you know, you and I were talking and we said we probably don't address the basic principles of why we do things enough. And Larry is a master at the principles.
- [04:39]
A
One of the things that he said is that he doesn't like to give people the step by step stuff, because that kind of stuff changes over time. But and it also doesn't work in different cultures. Right, right. So he likes to focus on what are the universal principles that we can teach.
- [04:57]
B
Yeah.
- [04:57]
A
And then the way that you apply those principles differ in culture. And like you said, Larry has a global presence. Right. In development. So, yeah, I definitely think it's worth checking out this book. But one of the things I wanted to go into about the abundance mentality, first thing he says is this is a principle. So God our Father owns an infinite supply of. Of everything that we or anyone else could ever need, want, or desire?
- [05:23]
B
Yeah, absolutely. God owns it all, doesn't he? God owns a cattle on a thousand hills. And if we don't realize that the God who owns it all owns a cattle on a thousand hills, if he isn't interested in us, then we are totally mistaken for what Scripture says. We need to understand that if God make sure that the bees are taken care of and the lilies of the field are dressed as scripture talks about, how much more does he care about us? And he really does. That means he doesn't just care about our family. He doesn't just care about our marriage. He also cares about that burden that he's placed on us to start a ministry. And if he cares about our ministry, that means he's going to help to fund the ministry. And we can get into that stinking thinking and get into that downhill spiral and think that, oh, man, things are bad. God doesn't care about me. God doesn't care about this organization when nothing's further from the truth.
- [06:27]
A
Yeah. Kind of bordering workspace a little bit. Right.
- [06:30]
B
Well, here's the thing.
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A
If I don't work hard enough or if I don't do good enough.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Then God's not blessing it. And you know.
- [06:38]
B
Yeah, you know what? That is a terrible mindset of. And in my mind, it's a. It's. It is really looking at what God intends to do in the wrong way. I believe that before God will do his part, we need to do our part. The analogy that I like to use all the time is if God wanted to, you could. He could just have you sit on your couch and he could just line people up every few minutes knocking on your door and say, jason, I don't know why I'm supposed to do this, but I'm supposed to give to a ministry called Reaching the Heart of Zambia. I never heard about it, but God placed it on my heart and I'm supposed to give you money? Is that okay? If God chose to do that, you'd Gladly sit on the couch and accept the money. But God doesn't seem to work that way. He can do that if he wants to. But God wants us to step out in faith, just as God had the Israelites and the priests stick their toe into the water before crossing the Jordan River. It's exactly the same way. He wants us to step out in faith and say, God, I don't know what's going to happen in this next step. I don't know what's going to happen in the disappointment with the major donor. But you know what? I'm going to put my full faith and trust in you that you were there before the appointment, that you're going to be there during the appointment, and that you're going to be there after the appointment. And whatever this person decides, it's going to be up to you. And I'm going to trust in you for the results. And I believe that grows our faith. I can tell you 40 years ago, my faith muscle was. Was like a spaghetti string. Over 40 years of seeing God work miraculously time and time and time again. My faith muscle has become so. And I put everything. And you know what? My faith in myself is like spaghetti. And I have no faith in my abilities, but I have all the faith in God and I give him all the credit.
- [08:42]
A
Right. Well, some of the scriptures that this book brings up is Exodus, chapter 19, verse 5, it says, all the earth is mine. And in Deuteronomy 10:14, it says, Behold, to the Lord your God belongs the heavens and the highest heavens, the earth and all that is in it. And in the New Testament, in Philippians 4:19, it says, and my God shall supply all your needs according to his riches and glory in Jesus Christ.
- [09:08]
B
Yeah.
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A
So notice the two things it says, he shall according to his riches, not out of his riches.
- [09:16]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [09:17]
A
So what does he mean by that?
- [09:18]
B
Well, it's is that, number one, God has an unlimited supply and he's not taking out of and his pie is not getting smaller when he gives to us, his supply is unlimited. See, that's the problem that I have. And one of the analogies that I use in the abundance mentality is that we tend to think that our partners, our financial partners, are exactly the same way. That they have a pie and that they have income. And their income limits how big their pie can get. And so if they give to us, but then decide to give it to another ministry, in our minds, we're thinking, okay, that's going to make the pie smaller. And that means my slice will be smaller because they give to other things. When we forget if that person who is a believer serves God, that God can make the pie bigger, that giving to us and giving to somebody else doesn't take away from our portion, that God can make the pie big.
- [10:26]
A
I think that's why he, Larry, calls it the five principles of wealth distribution. Yes, right. Because. Because God is the one who distributes wealth. Right. God has unlimited. He has an unlimited supply and he entrusts people with his supply of wealth.
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B
That's right.
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A
Right.
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B
We are stewards of his resources.
- [10:46]
A
Stewards. So this, this is a core principle. Right. And, and for us to sit there and say, well, it seems like Jim Dempsey works at, you know, Starbucks and the average salary of a Starbucks employee is, you know, you know, but Jim's.
- [11:03]
B
Grandmother has cancer and he cares for her. You know what? I don't think I should ask Jim for money because he, you know, there's just no way that a Starbucks worker is going to be able to give US$100 a month. Especially, you know, that's just not even.
- [11:19]
A
We're really like when we think that way. That's why we call it stinking thinking.
- [11:22]
B
We're becoming God. We are taking God out of the equation. We're making a decision for our partners. And don't, you know, anybody listening to this? Don't try and sell me that you haven't done that because I've done it myself. I've pre qualified some people and said, no, I don't think I need to ask them or I shouldn't ask them at this time. That's one of the worst things you can do. Let it be between them and God. Your responsibility is to put the opportunity before the person. It's up to God to work on their heart. If they have some things that, that they can't be doing, let them deal with it with God. Because I'll tell you, your partners, if they know you're doing that. I've had partners say many times that they get so frustrated when they hear that people that they support, that they know pre qualify them and say that they should. I've had people say, I'm an adult, I can make a decision myself. You don't need to be making the decision for me. Let me decide not. Don't you decide for me. So true.
- [12:23]
A
Yeah. Good reminder, you know, that we don't want to be prejudging, pre qualifying, you know, analyzing their life and trying to be so smart about like, well, if I just ask him at this time, or if I just take him out to this coffee shop, you know, they'll be in a good mood. Yeah. You know, it's like we're. We're doing all that manipulation or whatever, and it's like, I think we need to just start. It's the beginning of the year.
- [12:46]
B
Yeah.
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A
We just need to start with the basic principle that, look, God owns it all.
- [12:50]
B
Yeah.
- [12:50]
A
God owns the cattle on a thousand hills. He owns. If you. There's been studies that have been done. I want to go into a rabbit hole too much, but there's been studies that have been done on the universe getting outside of the Earth.
- [13:01]
B
Yeah.
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A
And, like, the amount of abundant resources that are in the solar system, you know, like, they. They don't even. They can't even comprehend, you know, the amount of like, or. Or gold or silver or precious metals or precious stuff is just. God just literally created like, infinite amount of. You know, it's probably worth trillions and upon trillions of dollars, you know, and it's just floating in space.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, and we don't believe that he can provide for our $10,000 budget or, you know, like, it just kind of blows my mind.
- [13:38]
B
Well, and how arrogant are we, Jason, to think that if we set up an appointment at the right time, at the right location, ask for the right amount. Let me give you an example. I'll give you a story that just, you know, it's. Sometimes God just loves to. To take my stupidity and just slap me across the face with it. I had been putting off even, you know, Mr. Pro. 40 years. I'd been putting off calling someone. It was for a matching gift at year end. And I. I put it off, put it off, put it off and put it off. I thought, oh, man, I'm gonna reach a point where it's just gonna be too late. But I finally. Handshaking, finally put that phone to my ear, called the person, and his first words out of his mouth were, jim, do you know where I'm at right now? And I said, no. He said, I am sitting on a beach in Hawaii right next to my wife. We are looking at a sunset. That is amazing. How could I turn down your request for $25,000 sitting on a beach here where God is providing so much for me and you have a need. There's no way I could say no to that. I thought, you know, if I would have called this person three weeks ago when I had planned, he wouldn't have been sitting on a beach in Hawaii, and he wouldn't have Been giving all the credit to God, and chances are he may have even said no. But I thought, you know what? It's not up to me. It's up to God.
- [15:11]
A
Even God's even in control of our complacency. Oh, absolutely.
- [15:15]
B
Yes.
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A
Messes with our head.
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B
That's right. Yep.
- [15:17]
A
Well, I want to get to the second point that he makes here. So this is principle number two. God has a hilarious time circulating his wealth and resources and wants his children to share in this pleasure. Just let that sink in for a bit. Let me just read that again. God has a hilarious time. Now, I just. The word hilarious just gets me. I'm just like, I can't think of God being like, hilarious just sounds funny.
- [15:43]
B
You know, but, like, it seems overdone.
- [15:45]
A
Yeah.
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B
But when. When you. We dig into what Larry found in.
- [15:49]
A
Scripture, I want to dig into what he means by that. Yeah, but he's saying God has a hilarious time circulating his wealth and resources and wants his children to share in that pleasure.
- [16:00]
B
Yeah. And his pleasure.
- [16:02]
A
So let's unpack that a little bit.
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B
Yeah. You know, Jason, in our church, when I first started, it seemed a little corny, but I knew where they were coming from, because our church, when our senior pastor steps up to the stage and says, it's our time to give of our tithes and offerings, all the people start clapping as loud as they can.
- [16:21]
A
Yeah.
- [16:21]
B
And he always has to explain. Ladies and gentlemen, I know if you're a visitor in this church, this may seem really corny and really stupid, but our family believes that this is a great time for us to give back to God. And this is the hilarious mindset that we have in there. God wants us to give hilariously. And, you know, as Larry says, where.
- [16:45]
A
Is this coming from in Scripture?
- [16:46]
B
Well, Larry says in Second Corinthians 9, 7, which is so good, each should give according to what he has decided in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion. So first of all, God doesn't want us to give out of guilt, not out of feeling an obligation to give. For God loves a cheerful giver. Now, when. When he unpacks us, and I love this, he really says that in the Greek word for cheerful is hilarious, which the root of that word is hilarious. So cheerful. That's all happy and nice. That's cheerful. Hilarious. I mean, that is giving almost to the level of insanity. But that is how God wants us to give, because he doesn't want us to be holding on tight to our possessions. It's not our money. It's his money, he's just put it in our hands as stewards. So if God likes to give hilariously to his people, he also wants his money to be given hilariously to the needs that are out there as well. So when we give, we shouldn't just give. Oh, that's nice. Wow, what a great opportunity I have to give. So what a model we have in scripture where it talks about not just giving cheerfully but giving hilariously. Giving seems to be a low point in every church service. No excitement intentionally or laughter. Now I mentioned in our church how we clap.
- [18:30]
A
Yeah.
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B
But there are churches who. It's almost like, golly, you wouldn't have to. I'm sorry, sorry we have to do this. Yeah, that's exactly right. So it's something we need to be looking at. But the important things as Larry's talking about is not giving grudgingly and not under compulsion that God wants us to give hilariously.
- [18:51]
A
Right. So how does this principle relate to the abundance mentality of a development director and a nonprofit?
- [19:01]
B
Yeah. Well, first of all, we need to remember so many examples that we are given in scripture. It's more blessed to give than to receive. Remember in the story of Scrooge and you know, coming just off of Christmas here, I can't tell you how many times I watch Christmas Carol, but who was the oddball in that story? It was Ebeneezer Scrooge. It was the tight guy who said, do we not have prisons? Do we not have enough, you know, reform homes for the kids? He was the oddball. He was the miser. It's the person who gave generously. That was the one that was looked on. And we've got to remember that we need to find those people who love to give organization. And we've got to remember when they give, it's more blessed to give than to receive. Think about Christmas morning now. My kids, my kids are both grown and gone now. Nice to have time with our daughter at Christmas time. But when I was a child, I mean, I was so focused on myself, I couldn't wait to open my gifts. When I started having kids, I could care less about what I was given. I wanted to see what my kids gifts were. That's exactly, exactly the way that our partners need to be thinking. And that's, and that's the way God wants them to think. That doesn't necessarily mean we have to teach them that way. But generally you want to find those individuals. We want to realize that our partners do love giving to us, many of them and Our partners don't give, even though sometimes we think they do. They don't give grudgingly or under compulsion. There are some that probably feel like we're twisting their arms, but in most cases, they're. They're blessed.
- [20:48]
A
Yeah.
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B
By that. Yeah.
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A
No, and they're. They. They see the impact that you're making.
- [20:53]
B
Yes.
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A
And they want to continue. There's. There's one lady that I don't even really know her that well. I probably should know her, you know, but we met her in passing, you know, I think through Florida or whatever, and we were down visiting some friends, and she just happened to sponsor a child. And so we were like, wow, praise the Lord. You know, and then. But then every time I send out an email that presents some kind of opportunity, she always gives like 100 or 200. And it's like, to the point where it's like. I think the last campaign, I think she gave two or three times.
- [21:26]
B
You probably almost felt guilty.
- [21:28]
A
And I was like, how this person just keeps giving over and over and over, and, you know, and I don't even really know her that well, so I probably should follow up and try to get to know her more, just to thank her. But the impression that I got is that she is just giving generously. She really believes that we are helping these kids, and she just wants to see that happen.
- [21:53]
B
Yeah.
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A
So the way that this affects us as development people. Right. Is that we need to understand that this is how God wants us to approach giving.
- [22:02]
B
Yeah. That's the way he's wired us, for sure.
- [22:05]
A
And so we can't. I don't know, it's like the stinking thinking is, everything is in a box. Right. We're putting God in a box and we're saying, well, you know, I can't call this per. Or, you know, that that person has this and this. And we're trying to figure it all out. Or. Or we're saying, you know, well, they. They gave, you know, a couple times last month, so I probably shouldn't call them again. And. And it's like, it's. We're trying to control things and we're trying to justify things when the. The simple reality is that, look, if you're a development director of an organization, right. God has given you the opportunity to share in the blessing of, like you say, we're blessings brokers.
- [22:48]
B
Yes.
- [22:49]
A
So it's like we get the opportunity to present giving opportunities to people. It doesn't mean that we need to twist their arm and do all this crazy stuff. We're just. All we're in charge of is just. Just sharing the vision, sharing the mission, presenting the opportunities, and then leaving it with God. Just let them deal with it.
- [23:06]
B
You know, you and I have mentioned the phrase the crew has, which is presenting the opportunity, the power of the Holy Spirit, and leaving the results to God. Yeah, that's exactly what it is.
- [23:15]
A
And so in a way, that's easier than, you know. Well, you know, I. I shouldn't really pick up the phone because, you know, his wife just had. Went to the hospital yesterday and, you know, and I don't know, like, we do all these things, right? So I don't know, it's just. It just seems simpler to trust the Lord and just let him do it. But I want to get to principle number three. Do we have time for this?
- [23:35]
B
Oh, we do.
- [23:36]
A
Let's do it. So principle number three is it pleases God when his children ask for, then diligently seek some of their inheritance so that they can give it to others.
- [23:48]
B
Wow, I love that.
- [23:49]
A
Pleases God when his children ask for, then diligently seek some of their inheritance so that they can give it to others. So let's unpack that a little bit. Well, I mean, where is this coming from?
- [24:01]
B
Think about that, Jason. You know, my parents have long gone and I've gotten my inheritance. But I think about if my kids came to me and said unselfishly, dad, I want to take some of the inheritance that maybe you set aside for me, and I'd like to give it to reaching the heart of Zambia because it's making a huge difference. And I'd rather. I probably would misuse that $10,000. I think they'd use it a lot better than I would. I would give them that money in a heartbeat. That check would be passed over the table so fast, they wouldn't be able to blink in between. Yeah, that to me is such a neat joy. So we know, Jason, that we've got an inheritance in heaven, that God is waiting for us, and we are going to be blessed when we get to heaven for us to take some of that and use it to spread the gospel, to bring more people into the kingdom so more people can come join us in heaven. Nothing would warm God's heart more than seeing more people come to the gospel and enter the kingdom of God with his money. And so what an amazing use of his resources. You know, in multiple times in scripture, Jesus used the example of people getting talents and some putting it under a rock and some using those talents and Multiplying. To me, this is multiplying your talents. You're taking your inheritance that God gives you uniquely and using it to bring more people into the kingdom. What an amazing blessing. I think God would say to that, well done though, good and faithful servant. So it's, that's, that's one of those things that is, is really amazing. Larry uses some scriptures in here which I think are really good. Matthew 21:22, you can pray for anything and if you have faith, you'll receive it according to God's will. John 15:7. But if you remain in me and my word remains in you, you may ask for anything you want and it will be granted. And it's so important.
- [26:15]
A
No way. Isn't that starting to get along the health and wealth gospel a little bit?
- [26:19]
B
Well, again, we always have to remember that it is according to God's will. So it's not name it and claim it. It, it is according to God's will. But if we're talking about circling back, at least this is what I perceive Larry's principle as, is that we take God's inheritance. We're not taking God's inheritance and giving it to a political campaign or giving it to living your best life now or whatever. But if we're talking about giving it to a legitimate, solid gospel based organization that is seeing people come to Christ or even babies saved, lives changed, yeah, God's gonna, that's got to be according to God's will.
- [27:04]
A
I don't, I'm a little confused by the wording of this. Like it pleases God when his children ask for and then diligently seek for their inheritance. But it's like kind of implies that God is going to give you money in heaven. So go ahead and ask him for it now and he'll give it to you now so that you can give it to others. Is that kind of. What am I misreading?
- [27:28]
B
First of all, you know, we, we are, we're, we're just, just. I mean this is just really a test and a trial here on earth. It's to prepare us for what is in the afterlife. We got is fine tuning us. God is refining us. God is preparing us for the time that we can spend the rest of our lives in heaven with him. And the resources we have right now is such a small. I mean it isn't even a flake of, of dust compared to the inheritance. We could take all of Jeff Bezos money. We could take all Elon Musk's money. We could take the Sultan And Brunei's money, all that combined together would be a couple flakes of dust in God's inheritance.
- [28:13]
A
I mean, he says the streets are going to be paved with gold.
- [28:16]
B
Exactly.
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A
So what does that tell you about.
- [28:18]
B
What heaven is going to be like?
- [28:19]
A
Yeah.
- [28:20]
B
Yeah. So really, you know, God's entrusting us, us with money right now. And in a sense, the money that he's giving us entrusting in our. In us right now is. It's. It's. That's part of that test as well, too. How does Jason and Jennifer, how does Jim and Diane use that money? Do they squander it on things for themselves? Do they buy things just to care about themselves? Or do they use it to further the gospel, to give to things that are going to have an eternal reward, not just a human reward.
- [28:52]
A
Right.
- [28:53]
B
So when we ask and ask diligently for that, it's saying God's not going to turn us down when we are legitimately asking for something that has an eternal reward.
- [29:06]
A
Right, Right.
- [29:07]
B
Yeah.
- [29:08]
A
Okay, let's get into principle number four. And again, we're not making these up. These are coming directly from this book, Intentional Living and Giving by Larry Onan. So if you want to check out this book, we're just regurgitating the general idea of what it says, but this is where I think this is just really good stuff to think about so you can purchase this book. There's a link in the description, if you want to. So the fourth thing that he mentions in here, the fourth principle is, if I sow according to God's principles, I will reap, and I will always have an abundance to help others as well as to meet my own needs.
- [29:50]
B
Man. Man.
- [29:51]
A
If I sow according to God's principles, I will reap, and I will always have an abundance to help others as well as meet my own needs.
- [30:00]
B
Wow. So in other words, you can't outgive God. That's really the bottom line now. What you sow, you will reap. Yes. And so it is so important, Jason, for us to understand that we, if God wants us, which I believe he does, to give to those things that are eternal, not things that are temporal. Not buying a Mercedes Benz which is going to devalue 60% the minute you drive it out of the showroom.
- [30:31]
A
Right.
- [30:32]
B
It's things that have eternal value. It's the church. Church. It's Christian ministries that are making a difference. It's the social services are feeding the poor, the homeless, the widows. When you give to those things, God will not disappoint us when we give and give sacrificially. God will return that back. Jason, as someone who's been in full time ministry for 40 years, I cannot tell you how often I've seen God do this. One of the number one principles we get that we are taught as missionaries with crew is that if you are having trouble with your own personal support, you need to start looking at your tithing. Are you giving enough? Now, by man standards, that's insanity. You need to be. If you're having trouble with your finances, you need to be out there hustling more. No, we say you need to be looking at your giving. Are you giving more? And every time we've circled back to start giving more and to say, I don't know why I'm doing this, we're barely going to be able to pay for our next meal. But we give that money away somehow God gives it 2, 5, 10, fold. Jason I couldn't begin to start to count on my hands how many times I saw God do that over the years. Just time and time again where money just came from people, you know, everything from, you know, a car bill that was $508.52 and all of a sudden somebody just said, I just sent you a check for $508 and 52 cents. Just crazy stuff, that it could only be God.
- [32:15]
A
Our culture, you know, is so focused on you. Work hard, you figure it out. You, you know, self made, you know, you make yourself who you are. You, you dig your heels in and you build your own wealth and then you can give out of your own wealth. Right. So you are essentially your own God of your own kingdom and you don't need God in a sense.
- [32:40]
B
Right.
- [32:41]
A
Because it's like, well, if I've got a million dollars, I can use that money to make more money. And it just becomes easier and easier to become your own God. But in fact, the principle that God wants us to actually live by is more the principle of, you know, the sparrows in the tree, where it's like they don't know. They, they don't have a plan on where they're getting their next worm from. You know, they have no idea if it's going to rain tomorrow or tonight or whatever. They just, they just go out looking and God provides a worm.
- [33:10]
B
Yeah.
- [33:11]
A
You know, and they, they feed their family. So it's, it's a, it's a totally different, it's like God wants to, to be completely dependent on him to provide for our needs. Yeah, right.
- [33:23]
B
Yeah.
- [33:23]
A
But I'M trying to think. It seems like we're talking a lot about the attitude of a giver. Yes, but. And I keep going back to how do these principles relate to me as a development director? Because I'm not the one giving, I'm the one receiving. So how do these principles actually help me, you know, in that.
- [33:40]
B
Before we do that, Jason, I want to circle back to one verse that wasn't one of Larry's verses, but it's one of my favorites. And it's Malachi 3 10. And it says, bring the whole tithe into storehouse that there may be food in my house. Test me in this and see if I don't respond in multiple ways. And it is. So this is the one thing that God says, try me and test me. You know, God, God's not a God that says, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna perform for you. I'm, I'm, I'm a magician and I'm gonna give you your wishes. This on giving, giving your tithe and bringing it to the storehouse. Try me and test me. I'm going to multiply. I'm going to reward you in this area. So when it says we cannot out give God, it is so true. Because the minute we step out in faith and believe God for something big, that's when he's going to provide more than we ever thought possible. Now, from the standpoint, getting to your point, from the standpoint of, of our, of, of us being development people, how do we respond to this? It's, it really is so important that we understand the mindset. This is what God has wired us to do. I fully believe this. Whether. And this is when you talked about Larry's principles going worldwide. I believe that God places in our hearts, when we become followers of Christ, a burden to be givers. And not that non Christians can't be givers, they can't be generous. But I believe that God really places in our heart that, that desire to give back to God. Whether it's a thank you, God, for doing this, I'm going to help others. Thank you for blessing me. I'm going to give others, thank you for allowing me to be part of something like this that has eternal value. But we, we know that God places that in the hearts of everyone. So when we go out there and talk to someone and whether, as I said, whether that's in the United States, whether that's in Canada, Mexico, in Europe, in Africa, remember, those people are followers of Christ, have that innate desire to help others and to give. And so when we are asking people, this is not a, oh, I'm sorry to be doing this to you. I know it was either this or a sharp stick to the eye that those were the two choices that you had. No, we need to go with the responsibility to be blessings brokers. We know, and blessings brokers is one of Larry's principles. So when you hear me talk about blessings blessing poker, that comes back to Larry as well. And I've used that for decades. But we know that God's going to bless that individual who gives. We have the responsibility of presenting the opportunity and giving that person the blessing. And when we don't ask them, we are denying them a blessing of God. I don't ever want to take on the responsibility of if God comes up and says to me, did you deny my servant Jason the opportunity to be blessed? I don't want to be able to say, yes, Lord, I was the one who denied Jason the opportunity. Hey, if God gives me the name of Jason and Jennifer Galazinski, I'm going in there and I'm asking him for money. And you know what, the results are up to God. And so we've got to remember that we don't, we don't need to go in there as with our tail between our legs. We go in there as ambassadors for the kingdom and we go in there as blessings brokers and don't feel like you are doing something to them, you're doing something for them. And that's why it's so important for.
- [37:30]
A
Us to remember that it's a totally different way of thinking. That's why we call it the abundance mindset.
- [37:35]
B
Exactly.
- [37:36]
A
Because the other way of thinking is definitely this.
- [37:40]
B
Just so short sighted. Yeah, it's so self centered, everything.
- [37:45]
A
Yeah. Well, we have one more principle and it's the fifth one that he talks about in this book. And it says, my giving can begin to reflect the resources of my heavenly father's household, not merely the limited earthly resources.
- [37:58]
B
Well, Jason, I'll tell you, we've got to remember that we can give out of God's abundance. We are little mindsight. Our little finite mind thinks so little when it comes to giving, we want to hold back. Ooh, I've got a bill to pay. I've got a mortgage. I can't do this. In the perfect vision dinner strategy, we talk about sacrificial giving.
- [38:23]
A
We go back to thinking that we taught.
- [38:25]
B
We go back to one of the best appeal Letters Ever Written, 2nd Corinthians, chapter 8. And specifically verse 3. When Paul is going to the Corinthians and using the Macedonian people as an example, and he said they were people of poor means, but they gave according to their ability and they gave beyond their ability. That means they gave out of God's abundance. You have an opportunity at the dinner to give out of God's abundance. If you choose not to do that, that's up to you. But we all, Jason, getting past the dinner, we all have the opportunity to give out of God's abundance. I can tell you, sadly, in 40 years, I could probably count on one hand when I've truly seen people give out of God's abundance and give sacrificially. But, boy, when it comes, it is amazing. I saw an event that we did in San Antonio where that night I can still remember. It's etched in my mind like no other event I've ever had. One of our leaders, Mark, was upstage praying, and it so moved. There was such a movement of sacrificial giving that people, literally, couples, got out of their seats, went to corners, prayed just out of God. A movement of God. And the giving we saw that weekend was beyond what we ever imagined. And it was one of the few times that I've ever seen sacrificial giving. But when you see God's people listening to God's, you know, calling and moving it, it. It just. It warms your heart.
- [40:03]
A
Yeah.
- [40:03]
B
And we all have that opportunity to give sacrificially now.
- [40:07]
A
And giving out of God's abundance requires faith.
- [40:10]
B
Yes, it does.
- [40:10]
A
You know, because, like, when we do the Appeal for the Perfect Vision dinner, we give three ways for people to give. You know, you can give a gift tonight out of what you have.
- [40:19]
B
Right.
- [40:19]
A
That's just out of your own thing. Then you can give monthly. So that's like, for the plan people. But then we always talk about a special opportunity.
- [40:26]
B
Yeah.
- [40:27]
A
Right. Which is the faith promise is what we call it. Right. And that's where this idea of giving out of God's resources.
- [40:36]
B
Right.
- [40:36]
A
You know, so the idea is, you know, and this isn't like twisting their arm or any kind of semantics, but the idea is we want people to pray. We want them to ask God for something big, you know, like, so maybe you're looking at a gift opportunity, you know, maybe you see that someone's coming to you and they're saying, jason, we need to raise $50,000 to, you know, build a new school or whatever. And this is going to impact 300 kids, you know, and so you're Looking at that. And you're going, well, I don't have that money with me, but I know that God can move mountains. I know that God could do miracles. So am I willing to put myself on the altar and say, God, if you somehow figure out a way to channel this money into me, I promise to channel it over to this organization. That's what we refer to as a fix faith promise.
- [41:33]
B
Yes.
- [41:34]
A
Right. And that's giving out of God's resources.
- [41:36]
B
Yeah.
- [41:36]
A
Right. So you're not, we're not, you know, we're not going to be calling you, saying, well, Mr. Jones, you promised us that you would give $50,000 and you didn't. So we're sending you a bill and you've got to pay that over 25 years. Amortize, and we're going to charge interest. You know, like, that's, that's not the point. Right. We're not trying to do that. The point is that we're. We believe that if we give people the opportunity to trust God, then God will step in and make it happen. Right. So it's a completely different. I mean, I think the world. That's why the world just doesn't get the perfect vision there. I don't know if they ever will get it. But the perfect vision dinner model works because the Lord is in it.
- [42:19]
B
Yeah. It's just incredible. Some people, I can think of some people listening to this saying, oh, that's just crazy talking. You know, you're making people, you're asking people to give something that they can't give and they never will give. But I can tell you, Jason, time and time again, and I've had those testimonies the next year where people said, I, my wife and I made a commitment that was way beyond what we thought possible, and we never thought we would be able to do it. And all of a sudden, at the last minute, God provided inheritance and some tax return that we never expected and we got it was for the exact same amount. Just. It's amazing. Now, Jason, Larry talks a little bit about logical giving and supernatural giving. And I think it's important to distinguish between the two. Logical giving is simply you're sitting in a. At a perfect vision dinner, or you're sitting at church, or you're having a conversation with someone, a missionary, and you're, you're thinking, okay, here's the amount they're asking. I make this amount of money and I typically tie 10% of that money, and I'm probably not quite at the 10%. I could probably find another 2%, might be able to help, you know, a couple thousand dollars with that, what that person needed. That's logical giving. That is essentially I am progressing using my earthly standards to come up with an amount. Then they're supernatural giving and supernatural processing, where you're saying, I don't know where that money's going to come from, but I believe God wants me to do it. My wife and I, since early of marriage always had a principle, and that was that if we, if someone came to us with something that was so powerful that we felt God wanted us to fund it, it, we would take out a loan to get that money. And we've lived by that. And God has been so faithful over the years to provide the resources that we need. And that's the kind of supernatural abundance given.
- [44:30]
A
Wow. Yeah. So it's just, I guess it's just living by faith, you know, it's. It's just the. It's just, are you gonna live according to your own ability or are you gonna allow God to work through you? And I guess that's what we mean by when we as development people go in to a business owner or, you know, I don't know, just anyone, right? And we're presenting opportunities. We are literally giving them the opportunity to trust God and to let God flow through them. And if we have the mindset that God can do that, right? If we have the mindset that anything is possible, if God wants to flow a hundred thousand dollars through this business and, you know, or whatever, then anything can happen, right? And so it's just. It's just living with the expectation that, like, trusting God, you know, like, if God is really in this, or, you know, pregnancy resource center, or if God is really in this, you know, homeless ministry, then he's going to provide. And I need to get out of my stinking thinking, you know, and. Because I can't see past $5,000 without freaking out. But yet God has unlimited resources, you know, like, unlimited resources. So it's like we just. Jesus said, you know, if we have faith as big as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, move from here to here and it will be done for you. And yet I don't even think a lot of us have faith the size of a mustard seed.
- [45:57]
B
No. And this all comes back to Christianity 101. When we make God the Lord of our life, that means we submit to him all authority and control. And unfortunately, people relinquish control in a lot of areas of their lives and they think they have Done what God wants them to do. But in that one area, in the area that seems to be the hardest is that they have the death grip on their wallet in their back pocket, and they say, God, I love you. I'll do anything you want me to do. Just don't ask for my money. And, and that, you know, it's so hard to relinquish control, but when you do, God will bless that. And, and that's the. That's the area that people just need to get past that surrender and relinquish control.
- [46:50]
A
Yeah. I don't know if I told you this story, but we've had many, many, many, many, many, many times where we, my wife and I have, you know, we're in a hard place financially, and yet the Lord was asking us to do something that required, you know, stepping out in faith. I remember, you know, starting Fund Easy, you know, the software company that was. We had three kids. You know, I was the sole breadwinner of the family. And, you know, going to your wife and saying, honey, I think the Lord wants me to quit my job. That's actually paying our bills. I think he wants us to start this business, which we have, like, nobody paying us money right now, but we really believe that it's possible. You know, that was like stepping out on water, you know. Right. But we just felt like the. The way that we had gotten to that point, it was like we knew that it was God asking us to do that. And. And so, in a sense, it was a joy to do it. And we knew that God was going to provide, Provide. So we didn't know how. And we. We just had this peace in our heart. I don't know how to describe it, but we just. We just knew at that moment, like, this seems like from an earthly perspective, like our family members and everyone was coming to us saying, you're crazy. Why are you doing this? And all this, you know, But. But we just knew in our heart of hearts, like, this is where God wants us. This is what we're supposed to do. We have no idea how it's going to work, but we're just going to take one step at a time. We're going to. And as soon as we started walking by faith. Yeah, that year that we started the business in 20 2006, and that year we had. We had one. I think we had two paying customers or something. We had our goal to get to 90 customers by the end of the first year so that we could, you know, support our families, at least break even or Whatever. Yeah. And, and I'm telling you, that whole first year we had no savings to live off of. I mean, we had like maybe a thousand dollars, but nothing to get past a couple months or whatever. And yet that year we, my wife started writing journal entries because it was God was doing stuff I've never seen before God moments. Yeah. No, I'm telling you, in our house we have, have a, a book, a journal book from this era of 2006 to 2007. There's probably 10 pages of journal. And we, we didn't, we didn't write down like paragraphs. We just wrote down like anytime God did something, we would write one line.
- [49:20]
B
Yeah, right.
- [49:20]
A
We have 10 pages of one line things. And I'm just telling you like the craziest stuff. Like, have you ever heard of somebody coming to you and saying, Jim, I don't know if you're interested in this or not, but my, my sister in law is working for a meat tasting company and they're creating a new product where they send meat, fresh meat out in, in, in boxes like Styrofoam. Styrofoam boxes. And they, they need to test their product on people. They need you. All you got to do is fill out a survey and let them know how it tasted. Would you be okay with, with like tasting that? And we're like, sure. Like, how many do you, how do you, how many, how many taste tests you. Well, you know, for the next six months, we're gonna, we're gonna send you five boxes of meat supplies for the next six months, and all you need to do is fill out a survey and let us know how it tasted. I mean, it's just like, what, that has never happened anytime since then. It was only in that one year. And that was just one, that was, this is one of like ten pages of stuff. And in fact, it happened so much, it kind of blew my mind. It happened so much that we, our fourth daughter was born at the end of that year and we actually named her Moriah, which means the Lord provides. Mariah is based on the scripture, Mount Moriah, which some believe is where Jesus was crucified. But it's also the same mountain that Abraham took Isaac up to to sacrifice his son. Right. And I think there's a lot of things happening on that mountain. But Abraham called the mountain Mount Moriah because the Lord provided the ram. Right? And so the name Moriah means the Lord will provide, or the Lord is my provider. And she was born at the end of 2016, and the crazy thing is, is that at the beginning of 2017, we hit our goal of 80. I think it was 90 customers. Right. And as soon as we started paying ourselves from payroll.
- [51:25]
B
Yeah.
- [51:25]
A
Everything stops. Like, it was like, who told all the 50 million people that we don't need money? It wasn't me.
- [51:33]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [51:34]
A
It was literally like we had money coming in from all these random things happening.
- [51:38]
B
It was like when you went for a second helping of mana.
- [51:40]
A
Yeah.
- [51:40]
B
The mana was spoiled. Yeah.
- [51:41]
A
And I just done. I did not tell anyone that we started paying ourselves. It was like the only person that knew was me, my partner Adam, and our wives, and that was it. And we weren't. And God, and we didn't tell. We didn't make a big announcement. You know, it just. It stopped. So to me, that confirmed that that year, God was really. We were stepping out on faith and the Lord really showed up. And I come back to that, you know, time and time again of like, whenever God asked me to do something crazy, I just think, well, he's done it in the past, and I know I will never forget that moment.
- [52:17]
B
That's right.
- [52:17]
A
Yeah.
- [52:17]
B
He can do it again. Yeah. Yeah.
- [52:19]
A
So it's crazy.
- [52:20]
B
Yeah, it is. You know, when we always think about David stepping out in front of Goliath and just, you know, destroying him and that. What a miraculous occurrence. You know why David had the courage. Scripture tells us that he defeated lions and bears when he was a shepherd.
- [52:39]
A
Yeah.
- [52:39]
B
That was God's way of preparing him so that when he stood in front of Goliath, he had absolutely no fear because God had proven to him in the past. I'll protect you. I'm going to protect you again. That's what he did for you. How neat is that? You know, I think about Mariah spent was such a important contributor in our filming of our Major Donor mastery class. And what a neat, neat picture.
- [53:02]
A
She's really neat. We took her to Zambia this year and she's just. She has such a giving spirit.
- [53:06]
B
Wow.
- [53:07]
A
She's just such a precious blessing.
- [53:09]
B
What a gift.
- [53:09]
A
Yeah. So anyways, all these principles coming from the book Intentional Living and Giving by Larry Onan. Larry Onan. Definitely check it out. The link is in the description.
- [53:19]
B
He's not giving us any kickback for presenting his books. There's no vested interest other than what a great resource we think it'll be for you.
- [53:28]
A
Yeah. So definitely check it out. And thanks for tuning in. I know this is kind of a longer episode, but I personally enjoyed it quite a bit.
- [53:35]
B
I hope so.
- [53:36]
A
And I hope you guys enjoyed it too. So if you liked the episode, definitely subscribe because we got a lot more great content coming your way for leaders who are involved in nonprofit work, specifically directors or development directors. So if you like this content, hit subscribe and we'll see you next time.
- [53:53]
B
Take care. It.