76. Four Practical Strategies for Building Church Relationships

Summary

The Fundraising Masterminds Podcast: Episode 76 Summary Title: Four Practical Strategies for Building Church Relationships
Host/Authors: Jim Dempsey & Jason Galicinski
Release Date: January 15, 2025

---

Introduction

In Episode 76 of The Fundraising Masterminds Podcast, hosts Jim Dempsey and Jason Galicinski delve into the intricacies of building and maintaining relationships with local churches—an essential strategy for nonprofit leaders seeking sustainable fundraising and support. This episode, titled "Four Practical Strategies for Building Church Relationships," addresses a question from John, a member of their Perfect Vision dinner course, who runs a rescue mission in New York City and seeks effective methods to strengthen his ministry’s ties with local churches.

Understanding the Challenge

Jason opens the discussion by sharing his personal struggles in collaborating with churches. Despite running impactful missions in Zambia—providing education, food, and sponsorships to street kids—he found that churches often felt "threatened" by his ministry rather than seeing it as a valuable extension of their own efforts (02:09). This experience left him feeling jaded and seeking new strategies to forge meaningful partnerships.

Jim echoes these frustrations, highlighting that many ministries face similar hurdles. He observes, “There are too many ministries, too many missionaries who really paint the picture of always wanting money... Are you sucking life out of them?” (00:10). This sentiment underscores the importance of nonprofits being perceived as blessings rather than burdens.

Strategy 1: Make Yourself Valuable to the Church

The first strategy emphasizes aligning the nonprofit’s mission with the church’s local interests. Jason recounts his realization that churches prioritize local initiatives over distant ones. He notes, “A church is going to be more excited to support a pregnancy center in their community... because it becomes an extension of them” (04:26).

Jim adds that partnering with local efforts can amplify the church’s impact, making support more tangible and immediate. For instance, a rescue mission can become invaluable by providing essential services like food and clothing, which churches can easily facilitate through member contributions (17:19).

Strategy 2: Treat the Church as Individuals, Not Entities

The second strategy involves approaching churches by focusing on individual relationships rather than the institution as a whole. Jim advises, “Do not treat a church like an entity. Treat it as a person” (18:25). Instead of targeting committees or pastors directly, nonprofits should identify and connect with key individuals who have a genuine passion for the ministry’s mission.

Strategy 3: Identify and Collaborate with Church Champions

Jim introduces the concept of "church champions"—influential members within the church who can advocate for the nonprofit’s cause. He explains, “Church champions are so important, and I utilize church champions for a lot of things. I consider them to be powerful recruits or advocates for other people in the church” (21:00). These champions can mobilize support, organize events, and serve as liaisons between the church and the nonprofit.

Strategy 4: Adopt a Grassroots Approach

The fourth strategy advocates for a grassroots approach, focusing on building support from the ground up through personal connections and community involvement. Jason reflects on his success in mobilizing church members individually rather than relying on institutional funding. He shares, “If I can get 100 churches to give $1,000 towards us, then we're going to have it set” (28:10). This approach reduces dependency on large, unpredictable donations and fosters a more resilient support network.

Realities of Church Funding

The hosts discuss the financial limitations of churches, dispelling the myth that large churches are always willing or able to provide substantial funding. Jason reveals a startling comparison: his small ministry’s $30,000 campaign surpassed the entire missions budget of a large church (24:12). This reality check highlights the importance of diversifying funding sources and nurturing individual donor relationships within churches.

Encouragement and Final Thoughts

Despite the challenges, Jim and Jason offer hope by emphasizing the power of individual relationships over institutional support. They encourage nonprofits to focus on building genuine connections with passionate individuals within churches who can champion their cause. As Jim summarizes, “If you have a program and activity, if you need someone to serve meals... you get someone on the missions committee who just has an axe to grind about your rescue mission, you're dead” (22:15). Instead, leveraging multiple individual supporters creates a more stable and less volatile funding base.

Conclusion and Call to Action

In closing, Jim and Jason reinforce the importance of engaging with listeners by inviting them to submit questions and topics for future episodes. They emphasize the value of subscribing to the podcast for ongoing insights and strategies tailored to nonprofit and development leaders.

Notable Quotes:

• Jim Dempsey (00:10): “Are you sucking life out of them?”
• Jason Galicinski (04:26): “A church is going to be more excited to support a pregnancy center in their community... because it becomes an extension of them.”
• Jim Dempsey (18:25): “Do not treat a church like an entity. Treat it as a person.”
• Jim Dempsey (21:00): “Church champions are so important, and I utilize church champions for a lot of things.”
• Jason Galicinski (28:10): “If I can get 100 churches to give $1,000 towards us, then we're going to have it set.”

Key Takeaways:

1. Align with Local Interests: Ensure your ministry's initiatives resonate with the church’s focus on local community needs.
2. Personalize Your Approach: Build relationships with individual church members rather than targeting the institution as a whole.
3. Leverage Church Champions: Identify and collaborate with influential members who can advocate for your cause within the church.
4. Adopt a Grassroots Strategy: Focus on building support through personal connections to create a stable and resilient funding base.

For nonprofit leaders looking to enhance their church relationships and fundraising strategies, Episode 76 provides actionable insights and practical approaches to foster meaningful and sustainable partnerships.

---

Resources:

• Podcast Website: fundraisingmasterminds.net
• Contact: Use the "Contact Us" button on the website or leave a comment in the podcast’s description to submit questions or suggest topics.

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to the number one podcast for nonprofit leaders getting your nonprofit fully funded. This is the Fundraising Masterminds podcast.

[B]

And it's no wonder that a church, a missions committee, a benevolence committee, turns at some point and they just go, we can't do this any longer. And unfortunately there are too many ministries, too many missionaries who really paint the picture of always wanting money. I'd never have enough. My situation is always desperate. It please give me money. You're the only way that I'm going to get money. It isn't that you're not a great ministry, but are you of value to them? Do they see you as a gift and a blessing to them or are you sucking life out of them?

[A]

Well, hey there. Welcome back to another episode here at the Fundraising Masterminds podcast. My name is Jason Galasinski and I'm your host and with me, my co host, Jim Dempsey.

[B]

Hey everyone.

[A]

We are so glad to have you on with us today. We're actually going to be taking a question from one of our members in the Perfect Vision dinner course. But when we were getting ready to record this podcast, we threw it to our Perfect Vision dinner mentorship program class. Hey, if anyone wants us to talk about a specific topic, let us know. So John runs a rescue mission and he comes to us with this question. Our ministry, church relationships are so critical. We depend on local churches for in kind donations, giving, volunteers, prayer and many donors. I am currently working on a strategy and a program for church relationships. So I am curious on your guys experience and take on it.

[B]

Yes, absolutely.

[A]

So this episode we've decided to call 4 Practical Strategies for building church Relationships.

[B]

Yes, absolutely. And church relationships are extremely complex. There are some great examples of things that have worked and there are some examples that have crashed and burned.

[A]

Yeah, well, I'll be honest, right off the bat, I have not had good experiences with churches. I run a ministry, missions ministry in Zambia. We help street kids get off the streets, we rescue them, we give them food every day, we educate them, we provide free education, free food and we try to find people to sponsor them so that they can get their life back together and then ultimately you know, get back into the traditional Zambian school system so that they can go on to get a degree and become a Christ follower. But also, you know, just a working citizen and contributing rather than, you know, being into drugs and stuff like that. So it's a critical ministry. We work in the slums.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And initially I kind of started with the church with my approach when, when we started this organization and I went around to all the churches and I tried to get them interested because all churches have mission budgets. And so I thought, oh, this. And I. My original idea was, you know, you know, I could create a committee locally of, like, different pastors and different people in the church that would be willing to help me, you know, take on this burden.

[B]

Marriage made in heaven. You've got a great ministry. They've got a heart for reaching people for missions. What could go wrong with that?

[A]

Yeah. And surprising. What surprised me is that I felt very like. I don't know how to say it. I. They felt threatened by me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And so as a result of that, you know, it was very difficult for me to get them excited.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And I kind of got. I kind of got jaded, you know, in that. So I'm interested. I'm willing to be won over. I'm interested myself. And what these four practical strateg for building church relationships. But as we were talking, you know, before we hit the record button on this episode, one thing that you said that I feel like might be an aha moment for me.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Was that you said, well, your ministry is a, you know, outside of the local community. Right. And churches are probably more interested in.

[B]

Ministries in their backyard.

[A]

In their backyard. Right. So a church is going to be more excited to support a pregnancy center in their community than they would be supporting kids in Zambia off the streets.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, or a homeless shelter in their community because it becomes an extension of them.

[B]

Yes, right. That's right.

[A]

So I want you to kind of drill into that because, you know, John runs a homeless ministry in New York. Right. So he's trying to build relationships with churches to help get them excited about his local ministry.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So anyways, I kind of want you to share these four practical things that you've prepared. Um, but I'd also like you to convince me how to not be jaded by the church for, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think you shared, off the record, that crew as a whole has had a hard time working with churches, too. So I think you feel my pain a little bit.

[B]

Well, I do, and, you know, it. It's. It's a difficult situation. You know, I. It just shocks me that they didn't say yes to you immediately, even though they had 472 asks that very same day. I don't know why they didn't just take you out of all those people. Churches tend to be a real target for people in ministry. Individual missionaries, you know, even people homeless in the community, where does everyone go to? They go to the church. That was the way things really were designed. But unfortunately, what happened is it got to the point where there started to be so many more needs than there was money to fund those things. And most churches in most communities in Cookeville, Tennessee is no exception, is that they tend to focus more on what's happening in the local community. And the value of the ministry is what's really of primary concern. It isn't that you're not a great ministry, but are you of value to them? Do they see you as a gift and a favor to them and a blessing to them? Or are you sucking life out of them? And unfortunately, what happens is there are too many ministries, too many missionaries who really paint the picture of sucking the life out of people always wanting money. I never have enough. I need more. My situation is always desperate, please give me money. You're the only way that I'm going to get money. And it's no wonder that a church, a missions committee, a benevolence committee turns to at some point and they just go, we can't do this any longer. And unless a ministry is perceived as an extension of that a church loves. Would love to make a difference in the lives of women who are trying to make a very difficult decision on whether to save their baby or not. They can't start their own pregnancy center, but there's a great pregnancy center down the road. Let's partner with those individuals. Or they want to make a difference in. In human trafficking. And there's a garden gate ranch down the road that provides a shelter for women who have been extracted.

[A]

Now, why wouldn't the church be excited to share the great commission and partner with crew?

[B]

Yeah, well, to be honest with you, it doesn't mean that they don't have a heart for crew and that the individuals, the church aren't solely committed to crew. One of the things we found over the years is that if people don't come on staff full time with crew, the number of individuals that we have trained up and send out to be leaders in local churches is astounding. I would probably say that there are probably. I would say in the United States, 90% of the churches have at least one or more individuals on their staff who have been impacted through coup some way or another. The problem is that we've got 25,000 missionaries worldwide. We have got 65 different arms and branches, and I can't even begin to count how many projects, programs, strategies that we've got. And the church Just cannot support every effort that comes through. And there's a point where they just have to say, enough is enough. Now, typically, who they're going to support is somebody who maybe moves into a position as a deacon or an elder in a church, someone who has shown themselves to be a longtime member, becomes of great value, and they start to support them. I was in my church 20 years before someone even considered supporting Diana and I as missionaries with crew. So it, it, that's what it takes sometimes. But being of value and making sure that you are an extension of who they are is so important.

[A]

Right. Well. And I think you kind of hit the nail on the head, and I don't want to be, you know, the guys who are bashing the church. You know, we love the church. We go to church week, we take our families to church. You know, it's just, it's sometimes, you know, when you hear the rhetoric coming from the pulpit of we need to get out there and just, you know, share the gospel with everyone, and you're, like, sitting there going, I'm literally doing that 20 force that. Like, I'm the guy in the room literally doing that. Or, or when, you know, you hear, you know, you go to church and it's missions week, and you're, you're like, we gotta. We gotta go to the. All the nations and share the gospel. And I'm like, I literally was in Zambia last week, and I couldn't get anyone excited. But now you're out on the pulpit telling everybody how they need to do it. And when I go up there and talk to you and say, I'll take 10 people over next week. Yeah, you're like, yeah, no, we're not gonna do that. You know, so there's just some things like that that I'm just like. Sometimes it feels like all talk and no action.

[B]

Certain. I'm certain it's your ministry that they don't like. That's the only thing that it could possibly be. Jason, it is funny. Sometimes churches do feel like if it isn't their idea, then it's not a winner.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If somebody else would have come up with the idea that we could build a classroom in a village in Zambia, they'd be like, that is the greatest idea that I've ever heard. Great job, Elder Jones. I wish Jason Galcinski would have thought of that. It, you know, it is what it is. And sometimes churches feel like that they would rather start their own pregnancy center than fund the pregnancy center down the street. There is some of that, but Once again, you have got to get over that hump of how do I find a way to be of value to that church?

[A]

No, and it's not perfect. I'm thinking back 15 years ago when we were part of a big church in the Chicagoland area, and one of the elders of that church ran a counseling ministry. Right? Yes. And he was actually teaching classes in the church and was starting lay counseling ministries and teaching people how to counsel from the scriptures. And yet still, through all the bureaucracy of that church, the church itself thought it would be better to start their own counseling ministry. And they did not use the elder. And the elder was very heartbroken by that. I felt very discouraged. Like I've been serving and pouring my heart out to this church, and they still wouldn't, you know, so it's just. I agree that sometimes it's just like they had a different vision for the counseling ministry than his vision for the counseling ministry. And so a lot of it, there is a lot of control and things like that. But I do want to shift to the one thing that you said that did give me kind of a sense of hope.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because I don't want to be, you know, negative Johnny Rain Cloud. And the. The one thing that you said that kind of. That kind of made me think, ah, maybe I'm thinking about this wrong. So you said that the ministry has to be valuable to the church.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And at first I thought, well, what does that mean exactly? Like, how. How is reaching the heart of Zambia valuable? It's not really. I mean.

[B]

Or why is it not valuable?

[A]

Yeah. And what I just thought of as you were talking was, well, the value, you know, for my organization is that, you know, a lot of churches have young people who, you know, are having an identity crisis. You know, they're maybe teenagers or whatever. And there is. There's a lot of proven fact that when young people go on mission trips overseas specifically, and experience a different culture, it opens their eyes. And if you can work with the church to create some kind of transformational experience for them.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Then that impacts them. They come back more excited about the Lord. They come back, you know, their faith is stirred or whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that is the value. Right, Right. That the. That the church might be interested in. Right.

[B]

Because frankly, there's a lot of churches. In fact, my church in Virginia, I've had multiple conversations over the last couple years about how desperately he's the missions committee chair, how desperately he would love to take someone on a mission trip from their church.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Even if it's Just a handful of people. Every time.

[A]

I would just really love to take people.

[B]

Yeah. And every time he's. Every time he's brought it up to church leadership. The church leadership says, we don't have the money, we don't have somebody who's trained in that area. We can't take them there. Yeah. That would be a church that potentially could be a perfect partnership with those.

[A]

I literally took eight young people over to Zambia.

[B]

It was amazing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Individuals just in your community.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, that you.

[A]

Surprisingly there was two from my community, but then there are. The majority of them were actually from different places. They heard about us through. Wow. But what was cool was that the church actually supported them in their effort. Right, see, exactly. Yeah, the church did support. But they weren't supporting me directly. They were supporting the people that were going over because the church is excited about their young people.

[B]

Jason, what do I always say about elephants? You need to eat an elephant. Not whole. One bite at a time. Let's start with their support of the kids. Hopefully those kids will come back and have great stories and say what an amazing ministry that's happening. Maybe that'll open the door in a few of those churches that supported them to say, you know what, maybe we can get beyond some things and start to help. Yeah. So that may be the first step for you to get your. Your foot in the door.

[A]

Yeah. Well, let's talk about John in particular because he's running a local ministry, rescue mission in a rescue mission. And he's looking for some ideas, ideas of how to build church relationships. So I think we kind of hit on the first. First point, which was make yourself valuable to the church.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So how does that apply for a rescue mission? How can a rescue mission in New York City become valuable to a church?

[B]

Well, to me, to be honest, John's a. John's a no brainer. In all honesty. Rescue missions are. I mean, those are on the front lines of the battle. They really are. I mean, other than potentially pregnancy centers, there's. There's almost no ministry that isn't right there in the front lines of battle every single day. I'll bet he's got. He could probably count dozens of individuals who are brand new every single day walking through that are struggling and are just one step away from suicide or one step away from dying on the streets. So to me, there could be almost no better extension from the church to the rescue mission in the sense that they are providing and meeting the needs of people in the Niagara Falls area. I'll Bet John could give some amazing statistics of what percentage of the population and I'll bet Niagara Falls, all the economically difficult, challenging times they've had in, in northern New York. I'll bet the homeless population is huge and I'll bet the church wants to do something about that. So when, when he talks about gifting kind, you know, that's probably in the form of food and, and clothing. Those are the kinds of things that it makes it very easy, those tangible things.

[A]

I mean like the church could like serve by doing those things.

[B]

Well, I mean, how difficult is it for a church to say, bring each. If every member brought a canned good next week we're going to put it in the rescue mission box and take it over the rescue mission mission. How difficult is that? It's, it's winter. Winter's heading on us. It's, it's November 1st and we, you know, right now the rescue mission needs jackets. If you've got an old jacket. If you've got a, even if you don't have an old jacket and want to go to a store and buy a jacket, bring it in next Sunday we're going to be bringing this over to the rescue mission. So easy. I mean, yes, there is. Is sitting going through the food line. What a tremendous example.

[A]

Well, I understand like how the church can do things to benefit the rescue mission, but how. John's asking about a strategy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So like, how, what, how would he like if, if he doesn't have a relationship with anyone in the church, how would he go in and say, I have something valuable that you would be interested in?

[B]

Well, to be honest, that that leads us into point number two. And if we don't mind mercury meshing into two, do not treat a church like an entity. Treat it as a person. So I would not go into the church if I'm John as an entity. I would not necessarily go into the missions committee or the deacons or the ever the elders. I would go in through a person and I would find out who's somebody that I know, that somebody on my board knows in that church, someone who's got a connection somehow to that church and find out is there a person that I can connect with first? Because you have a much greater success connecting with a person. And frankly, unfortunately, many pastors are almost the equivalent of an entity because they represent the entity. And pastors have heard every single request known to man and woman. And so generally the person who's got the greater heart is going to be somebody on the missions committee, somebody on the Benevolence committee, possibly somebody as an elder or deacon. And those individuals, you need to find that person and identify those people and begin there. That generally gets your foot in the door. What I like to find out, if I'm John, is I want to find out, is there someone in the church that may have a heart for what we're doing now? It could be the chairman of the missions committee, but it also could be Mary Jones, who works in our food pantry down the street. She has always had a heart for the homeless people. Why don't you talk to Mary and see if she might be willing to help you in things? And because Mary works in the food pantry, she's done it for 25 years. She knows the ins and outs. She knows the people to talk to. She knows the way to get things. That leads to number three, church champions. Mary would be considered a church champion. I want to find someone who is not on staff, who is not necessarily deacon and elder, or someone who is not necessarily on a missions committee. I want to find someone who is well known in the church, been around the church that everybody knows, that everybody loves, and that they have a heart for what they're doing. Because generally somebody who's been around for a long time has the ear of those people as the ear of the missions committee chair has the ear of the elders, has the ear of the senior pastor. They know how to play the game, how to get things done. Those church champions are so important, and I utilize church champions for a lot of things. I consider them to be powerful recruits or advocates for other people in the church. They can be those representatives for you in the church. And when you have a program and activity, if you need someone to serve meals at Thanksgiving or Christmas, I'm going to Mary Jones because Mary's gonna find the people to do that. If I'm having a walkathon or jogathon, Mary's gonna get people from that church there. If I'm doing a perfect vision dinner, Mary's gonna be my table host and is gonna fill people in. That's not expecting money from the church, being part of the church budget that actually can come and go in a heartbeat. You get someone on the missions committee who just has an ax to grind about your rescue mission, you're dead. But you get 10 other people. Individuals who love you, specifically. Yeah, you. You are.

[A]

You're in shape. I think that's. That's the key, is you gotta think of the church as people. You know, there's. There's a. There's an old song that says, this is the church, this is a steeple, open up the doors and there's all the people.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The church is the body of Christ is made up of people. Yeah, right. People make up the church. It's not the building, it's not the pastor, it's not the committee or the elders. You know, I mean, some people might disagree with me on that, but I.

[B]

Don'T think people understand the church would disagree.

[A]

Yeah, if you really look into the New Testament church, it was, it was people who are believers in Jesus makers up the church. And so when you are going to a church thinking of it like, and I've done this, I've made this mistake and I think this is why it doesn't work. And I've realized that this is a mistake and I've pivoted. I'll tell you kind of what I'm doing, which is similar to what you're suggesting, but going into a church and thinking I've got to get my ministry as a line item on their budget because they have a 1.2 million dollar budget and man, if they could just give me $2,000 a month out of that 1.2, give me 10% of that, that's like barely anything, you know, for them and for me it would be life and death, you know. But the problem with that is that there's not one. You know, you have to go through a lot of bureaucracy to get that.

[B]

I'm going to use a dirty word, Jason. This, there's politics. Yes. And everybody has as their own pet project. And chances are you're not one of the pet projects. And so it's so tough to get in.

[A]

And it's really the wrong approach. It's not really a sustainable approach. To be honest with you. I've had much more success and probably I think crew has too, that you, you have a 750 million dollar budget. And I bet you hardly any of that is coming from local church budgets.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, it's all coming from the stuff that we talk about all the time. You know, you're doing a perfect vision dinner. You're doing major donor cultivation. It's coming from business owners, it's coming from individuals. That's right, I remember.

[B]

But the churches, people in the churches support our missionaries like crazy. So.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, no, I remember one thing that kind of really shifted my thinking in this is I remember trying to talk to a missions pastor in a local church that has, you know, 1.5 million dollar budget apparently. I just, I just Thought they're, they're a huge mission sending church. I mean, they send missionaries all over the place. And they said that, you know, they have a big missions budget, you know, and so I just thought. I just did the math and thought, well, their mission budget is probably at least 10. So 10 is like $100,000.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, so I just thought, well, you know, they should be excited about what we're doing. Doing. And I remember having a conversation with missions pastor, and I was in the middle of a campaign to. I think we were building a school, building one of the. We have four school buildings now, and we were building one of them. I think we were raising like $30,000 for the school building. It was, you know, the most that I've raised at one time is probably 65 or 70,000 through a campaign trucks. This was like a medium sized, you know, campaign. And the mission pastor turned to me because he's on my mailing list and he gets my, you know, stuff, and he said, you know, you're raising the amount of money that you're raising on, you know, through these online campaigns is about double the size of our entire church budget for missions. And I just kind of. My jaw hit the floor. I was like, are you kidding me?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like a little old me.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Like I'm. Right. I'm barely doing anything. Yeah. And you're telling me that my little wimpy, you know, ministry that. That 25 people gave to. To raise $35,000 is bigger.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Than your entire church missions budget?

[B]

Jason, what is 10. What is 10%? What is 10% of $1.4 million?

[A]

It's 140,000.

[B]

Exactly. And what church can you name off the top of your head that gives 10% of their budget? I can't.

[A]

You would. It seems logical if I just think about it logically. Like if. If a church gave 10%.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Of their whatever they receive to missions efforts, and that could include pregnancy centers.

[B]

Homeless shelters, you know, wish they would, but they're lucky. Most churches are lucky if they're given 2 to 3%. So 2 to 3% of 140,000 is about $28,000. So he's right. Your $30,000 campaign is more than they're probably given to missions. That's sad statement, Jason, but very true.

[A]

What blew me away was that I have people quite regularly who give a thousand, five thousand. The largest gift I've ever gotten for my small little ministry is $25,000. And the biggest check I've ever received from a church A very big church was $1,000. I would say the most churches, you know, that, that have supported, I'd say I've probably gotten like two or three checks from churches. They're usually around 100, 200, maybe 500 at most.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm just like, the average gift that I tend to get from an individual is probably like between 500 and 1,000.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, when I'm doing campaigns and these are just regular people that have a heart for the ministry. You know what I mean? So, again, not trying to bash the church, but I think if you're, you're, if you're for John, if you're thinking about going into the church, thinking, I've got to get on their budget, I've got to get their, their team excited about, you know, this, this rescue mission so that I can get. If I can get, you know, 100 churches to give $1,000, you know, towards us, then we're going to have it set. I'm saying that's the wrong approach. You're gonna, you're gonna spend a thousand years trying to do that to get, you know, $100.

[B]

Yeah. Right. That's right.

[A]

And it's just, you gotta think, you gotta think about people. Right. Who in the church is excited about what I'm doing? And then how can I get to know those people and how can I get them excited to go talk to their influence? We always talk about labor influence, finances and expertise. So who in the church can give of their labor? Who in the church can give of their influence? Who in the church can give of their finances and their expertise? And I guarantee you the pastor isn't going to be one of those people. So you got to go to other people in the church and just try to get other people interested in what you're doing and then. And then kind of like equip them, in a sense, to be their church champion.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, but don't, but don't make it like a program.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like we're going to become, become the church champion of the First United Church of whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, but just, just look at it as individuals talking to other individuals.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, that are. That just happen to go to that church.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And to see if you can just work more of a grassroots, you know, thing. I think you're going to have more success doing that. And quite honestly, you know, going back to my mission trip with those eight people I took this past summer, yeah. I will give the church some credit. The church did support them quite A bit. They had a goal of raising $5,000, you know, per person, which is a lot to raise, to go on a mission trip. And the church did step it up, but it was the people in the church. I didn't get any checks from the churches. I got checks from people in the church.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And they knew those people in the church. So the church rallied around them because they had a relationship. Relationship with them, and they sent them on a mission trip. Right. So in a sense, you could say the church supported them and gave them money, but it wasn't the church institution itself.

[B]

Yeah, right. That's right. Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah.

[B]

And I think that's an important point, and that's what we really need to communicate. Yes. Other pregnancy centers, are they rescue missions who are supported by the church? Absolutely. But in most cases, it's the individuals in the church who support that. And frankly, if I have to choose between the two, I'm going to take the individuals because I get enough individuals. And. And if I lose one or two of them, my whole world doesn't crash. If I have one church giving me 2,000 or $3,000 a month and they decide to eat something that afternoon that didn't set with them well, and they decide it's time they want to start cutting missionaries, and I'm the first one on there that doesn't feel real good. But if I've got, you know, if I've got. Got 20 people giving a hundred dollars a month and I lose one of those, I'm not gonna crater. It's gonna not be bad for me.

[A]

Well, good. Well, John, thank you so much for sending this complicated question in. And I hope that we gave a satisfactory answer and hopefully it gave you something to think about. And if you're listening to this podcast and you're thinking, well, I have a question about something, you know, then I would say send us an email, you know, contact us through our website. You can go to fundraisingmasterminds.net and just click the contact us button and just say, I have a question for your.

[B]

Podcast, or simply drop it in the comments section below.

[A]

We do that, too.

[B]

And actually more comments that are in there, the more it drives the algorithm and people say, hey, this is a. This is a channel that people are wanting to watch.

[A]

Yep. So leave us a comment, go to our website, whatever, however you want to get in touch with us. The point is, is that we do read things that come in, and we are interested in knowing what you're interested in. We don't want to just create content just for the sake of creating content, you know, so if you're sitting there and you're thinking, gee, I wish these guys would talk about X, then send us a letter, send us an email, write a comment in the description and we will do our best to get it on the docket for the next time we record. Yeah, exactly. So and if you haven't done so already, go ahead and subscribe to this podcast because we are constantly releasing new content for ministry leaders, people who are working full time in nonprofit space. So if you're a director of development, if you're a director of development or a executive director or a board member, any of the content on this program is going to be extremely valuable to you. So hit that subscribe button so you don't miss miss episodes. And thanks again for joining us on this episode. We will see you next time.

[B]

Take care.