330 - Break Free from Emotional Patterns - With Melanie Whitney

Summary

Podcast Title: The Futur with Chris Do
Episode: 330 - Break Free from Emotional Patterns - With Melanie Whitney
Release Date: February 26, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 330 of The Futur Podcast, host Chris Do engages in a deep and candid conversation with Melanie Whitney, a mindfulness communication coach and professor. The episode delves into the significance of emotional regulation, mindful communication, and overcoming emotional patterns that hinder personal and professional growth.

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Melanie Whitney's Journey to Mindfulness ([00:00] - [05:52])

Key Points:

• Early Life and Education:
  Melanie shares her background as a second-generation Mexican American who excelled academically from a young age, driven by her parents' emphasis on education. Despite obtaining a master's degree in Interpersonal Communication from Cal State Long Beach, she faced unemployment and financial struggles post-graduation.

• Turning Point:
  Facing unemployment led Melanie to discover mindfulness through The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. This period of struggle and self-discovery eventually guided her towards teaching and coaching, where she focuses on mindful communication and emotional regulation.

Notable Quote:

"Life had different things in store. I went into marketing and event planning... but that path only lasted about a year before I got laid off."
— Melanie Whitney [05:52]

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Balancing Academic and Private Practice ([05:52] - [22:05])

Key Points:

• Academic Career:
  Melanie discusses her role as a professor at Cal State Long Beach, where she teaches mindful communication to high-performing professionals. Despite the structured environment of academia, she felt constrained in fully exploring mindfulness.

• Private Practice:
  Encouraged by her business-oriented wife, Melanie launched her consulting business, balancing her teaching responsibilities with her private coaching. She highlights the challenges of time management, especially during the pandemic, and emphasizes the importance of prioritizing and building effective business systems.

• Work-Life Integration:
  Melanie outlines her weekly schedule, dedicating specific days to teaching and others to her consulting business, illustrating the demanding nature of managing dual careers.

Notable Quote:

"When I'm in session at school, that's probably taking more of my time. Let's say 60, 40."
— Melanie Whitney [21:03]

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Understanding Mindful Communication ([22:05] - [36:17])

Key Points:

• Definition and Importance:
  Melanie defines mindful communication as the ability to communicate in the present moment, free from judgment and attachment to specific outcomes. This approach enhances both personal and professional relationships by fostering authentic and compassionate interactions.

• Universal Need:
  Both Melanie and Chris agree that mindful communication is essential for everyone. Melanie points out that people often lack self-awareness and struggle to objectively examine their behaviors and emotional patterns.

• Core Wounds:
  The conversation introduces the concept of core wounds—deep-seated emotional injuries such as fear of abandonment, unworthiness, and betrayal—that influence current behaviors and interactions.

Notable Quote:

"Communication means your ability to communicate in the present moment. So you're operating from here, not some story in the past, not some story in the future."
— Melanie Whitney [23:19]

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Exploring Core Wounds and Emotional Patterns ([36:17] - [55:16])

Key Points:

• Identifying Core Wounds:
  Melanie introduces an acronym, PEACE, to help individuals identify and transform emotional patterns:

  • P - Patterns: Recognizing recurring behaviors or challenges.
  • E - Ego Deconstruction: Understanding and examining attachments to one's identity.
  • A - Awareness of Core Wounds: Identifying underlying emotional wounds.
  • C - Compassion: Developing self-compassion and understanding towards others.
  • E - Empowerment: Reclaiming personal power and living authentically.

• Personal Stories:
  Both Melanie and Chris share personal experiences related to their core wounds, illustrating the universal nature of these emotional challenges.

• Practical Strategies:
  The discussion emphasizes the role of gratitude in anchoring oneself to the present moment and breaking free from negative emotional loops.

Notable Quotes:

"Once we have those wounds identified, you then can move into the compassion piece, which is where the healing takes place."
— Melanie Whitney [43:45]

"Emotions are a record of the past. Our brains are... trying to assess, what's the most familiar example?"
— Chris Do [57:02]

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Practical Applications and Transformation ([55:16] - [73:38])

Key Points:

• Gratitude Practice:
  Melanie recounts how practicing gratitude helped her overcome depression during a traumatic breakup, highlighting its efficacy in changing emotional states.

• State Management:
  Chris shares his approach to managing emotions by creating a controlled emotional environment, allowing him to respond thoughtfully rather than react impulsively.

• Vulnerability and Authenticity:
  Melanie discusses the challenges of embracing vulnerability, especially within her culturally conservative upbringing, and the liberation that comes from authentic self-expression.

• Impact on Relationships:
  Both speakers explore how emotional regulation and mindful communication enhance personal relationships, fostering deeper connections and understanding.

Notable Quotes:

"I started this practice of... saying three things I was grateful for. I forced myself."
— Melanie Whitney [61:12]

"Does your state of mind affect how you see things and how you respond to things?"
— Chris Do [57:02]

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Overcoming Attachment and Embracing Change ([73:38] - [86:53])

Key Points:

• Attachment and Identity:
  The conversation delves into how attachment to identities and external validations can hinder personal growth. Melanie emphasizes the importance of releasing these attachments to live authentically.

• Practical Coaching Insights:
  Melanie outlines how her coaching helps clients remove old beliefs and emotional patterns, leading to increased empowerment and confidence.

• Final Reflections:
  Both Melanie and Chris reflect on the importance of ongoing self-improvement, embracing vulnerability, and maintaining a balance between personal authenticity and professional effectiveness.

Notable Quotes:

"When you realize you have a problem, seek out the highest authority that's within your grasp and just pay them whatever they need to get paid so that you could learn from them."
— Chris Do [60:17]

"The transformation that people report is after we remove that, they feel more empowered, confident, and just really back to their authentic selves."
— Melanie Whitney [84:08]

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Conclusion and Takeaways

In this episode, Melanie Whitney and Chris Do provide invaluable insights into the power of emotional regulation and mindful communication. They emphasize the importance of self-awareness, vulnerability, and the deliberate practice of gratitude to overcome deep-seated emotional patterns. Listeners are encouraged to identify their own core wounds, practice compassion, and seek empowerment to live authentically and build meaningful relationships.

Key Takeaways:

• Emotional Regulation: Essential for achieving desired experiences and behaviors.
• Mindful Communication: Facilitates authentic and compassionate interactions.
• Core Wounds: Identifying and addressing them is crucial for personal transformation.
• Gratitude Practice: A powerful tool to anchor oneself in the present and alter emotional states.
• Vulnerability and Authenticity: Embracing these leads to stronger, more genuine relationships.

Notable Final Quote:

"I teach people to mindfully communicate and manage their emotions so they can have deeper connections with themselves and others."
— Melanie Whitney [85:51]

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Get in Touch with Melanie Whitney

For those interested in transforming their emotional patterns and enhancing their communication skills, Melanie Whitney can be reached at:

• Website: mindlesstomindful.com
• Social Media: @melaniewhitney

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Produced by: Rich Cardona Media
Show Notes and Additional Information: thefutur.com/podcast

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from Episode 330, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened to the full episode.

Transcript

[A]

And, I mean, there's so much research now on gratitude and how powerful it is in changing our state. It's one of the most powerful emotions to anchor you into the present moment. The most powerful is gratitude because you can't be anywhere else when you're saying what you're grateful for. You have to be here. My name is Melanie Whitney, and you are listening to the future.

[B]

Melanie, what do you want to talk about?

[A]

I would actually really like to talk about. This notion of that I've been seeing a lot this year in my coaching is that I don't think people understand how important and vital it is to be able to emotionally regulate yourself, to really get to the places you want to go or to have the experiences you want to have. So emotional regulation is something I've noticed. Just people are not like, oh, sign me up. It's like. It's something a lot of people learn in therapy, and I think a lot of people are more open now to therapy. But what I just realized this year while I was doing the coaching is that people come to me for the communication piece. They're like, yeah, I wanna learn how to be a better communicator. But then what they don't realize is really what needs to, quote, unquote, be fixed is the story that they have about X, Y and Z in their mind. So it's all about your thought creates that emotion. So the story you have in your head, the thought you're, creates the emotion. And that is the very emotion that's going to dictate your behavior. And guess what? Your behaviors that are repeated are going to create your life. And so it's been such a small, tiny little formula that I've just been honing in on with my coaching clients and, you know, different workshops and what have you. And it's so simple, but it's. It's finally simple enough for I think people to understand. Because I think before, the way I was doing it was too many steps for people. It was too much. So I just realized that a lot of us struggle with emotional regulation and we project that job onto the other person. Like, Chris, I want you to make me feel better. I want you to believe in me. I want you to, whatever, fill in the blank. We just pass that on. So it's just something I've been seeing a lot of. And with all the uncertainty in the world right now, I think people are.

[B]

Struggling now for people who don't know who you are. Melanie, can you please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit of Your backstory?

[A]

Yes. So my name is Melanie Whitney. So what I do for work, I essentially teach people how to mindfully communicate and regulate their emotions. But my background, I never in a million years thought I'd be doing this for work. This is like so opposite of what I thought I would be doing. I grew up in Southern California, My parents are first gen here, so grew up very Mexican American. And the big thing that drove most of my life and my adolescence was go to school, go to school, get an education, get a safe job. And so that was deeply grounded in me. So from, I mean kindergarten, I was like an overachiever, the poster child, kid, good at school, made friends, great at sports, and that was it, that was the track. And it was that all the way until college and then my master's program. So I just in my mind if I finished my education and I did all the things and I checked all the boxes, I was going to be solid in life. And then that proved to not be true. I graduated, couldn't get a job, couldn't pay my student loans, and I actually ended up finding I was unemployed for like six to eight months, which seem is like forever when you have bills to pay and things like that. And so there I was like, you know, in my early 20s. Now I look back, I'm like, I was a baby. But at that time I was like, I have my master's degree, I should be doing this by now. I should be doing this, this, this and this. So anyway, life had different things in store. I went into marketing and event planning, which I thought that's what I wanted to do. And that was my mission. I was very detail oriented, type A perfectionist. And when I went into that path, it was good for about almost a year. And then I got laid off right after I bought a brand new car and I almost signed a lease in an apartment in la and thank God I didn't. I think I got let go. They were downsizing like two days before I signed the lease. So that was a blessing. But I ended up living back with my parents in my childhood bedroom in my twin size bed. And that was like the first rock bottom that I had. I was like, what am I doing with my life? And so that was the first time I was introduced to mindfulness because I needed to pick myself up out of the floor. And I picked up a book called the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. And that was my first introduction to mindfulness. But I still was not ready for that deep dive. And so I ended up becoming a professor and being super academic still and doing all the things. And again, more bunch of different life events happened. And ultimately I just realized how limited I was living in the education space because it's very bureaucratic. You have to follow these rules and do these things. And then one time I saw flyer for a TEDx talk and it had always been like a little secret dream of mine to do that I never told anybody. And I was like, you know, I'm just gonna apply. I probably won't even get it. And then I got it and I was like, oh shit, now I need to come up with a talk for this. And then I just did the TED talk on my experience. And that one TED talk ended up leading to another workshop and another workshop. And that's kind of the short version of how I got here, was really healing myself through that whole process.

[B]

I just want to sit in that for a minute. Thank you for sharing that. I want to go back in time a little bit to try and understand you. So you're Mexican American? First generation American.

[A]

My parents are first gen, they were born here. I'm second.

[B]

Okay, you're second. How is it that you have the name Whitney?

[A]

My dad's part white. That's, that's why, that's where it comes from. That's why he's like a sliver white. That's where the name comes from. And it's sad because we actually don't know too much of his ancestry because he had an absent father. So we learned what we know is through. What's that called ancestry. He did his ancestry. And so we know a little bit, but not too much. We think it's like from the map. According to the map, it's like right by Ireland in Scotland, right there.

[B]

So somewhere in there there was a Scottish Irish white man who impregnated a Latina?

[A]

It seems that way, yes.

[B]

Because you're, you're a sliver of white but then disappeared out of the story. Okay, now I just wanted to understand that part. Okay, so you're very academic minded. You do well in school. You're unlike me. I'm first generation immigrant. I'm supposed to do well. I'm like, I don't know about this.

[A]

You're anti.

[B]

Well, not anti. It's just like the pressure to do well in school, as many immigrant children will tell you, is very real. And luckily I had a older brother who would shield me from most of that pressure to do well.

[A]

Oh, so you're middle child?

[B]

I'm A mother freaking middle child. There we go. The truth is out. I have middle child syndrome. And we can.

[A]

The forgotten child.

[B]

The forgotten child, yes. You know, the middle child's disappeared.

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

That's a phenomenon because people are not having three kids now. They might have one, they might have two, so there's no more middle child. There's a whole article on this if you want to look it up. Yeah, it's the disappearance of the middle child.

[A]

Well, I empathize because I am a middle child, but technically I have an older sibling, but we're like 12 years apart, so I also grew up very much like the eldest child when she left. So I have. I have both. So anyway, you were saying you got shielded from that.

[B]

Well, and apparently you weren't because 12 years is a good time to forget. And then all the pressure is back on you again to do well. And so you excel in school and you, you go to get a degree and then you get a master's degree. Where'd you go to school and what'd you study?

[A]

So I went to Cal State Long beach and I studied communication. Interpersonal communication specifically.

[B]

Okay, pretty broad.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then where'd you get your master's degree?

[A]

Also at Cal State Long Beach.

[B]

You can't leave, huh?

[A]

I couldn't leave. It was like a freaking vortex.

[B]

Okay, okay, okay. Here's another question. I kind of already know the answer, I think. And where do you teach?

[A]

Cal State Long Beach. I tried to freaking leave.

[B]

You didn't try hard enough. Oh my gosh. Your homebody.

[A]

Well, you know, this is what's crazy is the biggest decision in me staying there for my master's was a financial decision like I couldn't afford to go out of state. That was a big thing. I couldn't fathom how because I had to. I put myself through college. I worked like three different jobs. It was a nightmare. It was a lot. I don't know how I did it, to be honest, but I figured, okay, if I stay here, if I stay local, I could live in my parents house. I could do this. This was a very calculated decision. I never planned on working there.

[B]

Wink, wink. Sure you didn't. We'll see. We'll see. Detective Doe's on the case, everybody, so relax. We're going to get to this and we're going to dig out all the juicy details, okay? So your parents didn't have an education fund for you. And I do want to say this. There's lots of problems with the American education system, but One shining star in it is state schools. They're actually really good. They're affordable. And let's talk a little bit about that. So if you were to go to, like, a UC school, the tuition would be radically different, Right? Versus a Cal State school. Do you remember how much you paid in tuition per semester there, roughly?

[A]

I want to say. This could be totally wrong. I want to say like, 1800.

[B]

Okay, and what gear is it?

[A]

Sounds like nothing.

[B]

It's nothing.

[A]

I started at Cal State Long beach in 2007. I was a transfer student. I went to a community college first.

[B]

Like a good person should get all your gen ed stuff out, right?

[A]

Exactly right.

[B]

And which community college did you go to?

[A]

Fullerton.

[B]

All right, 2007, 1800. So here's a point of reference, everybody. Because you're like, well, what's the difference here? I went to Art center in the early 90s. Tuition then was $3,400 when I started and wound up being, I think, almost six grand by the time I finished. This is a private art school, and you can see now quite the difference there. So adjusted for inflation and rising tuition costs, I don't know what it was like in 2007, but I can tell you what it is now. Let's do a comparison now to go to art school, because I know, because I'm paying for a child to go to art school. It is $25,000 a semester.

[A]

A semester.

[B]

A semester. So do you know what the tuition is today to go to Cal State?

[A]

About 3,700 a semester.

[B]

Okay, everybody, that is, by my math here, a seventh of the cost to go to a private art school. So there's a lot of problems that we have. We live in a great place with great weather. I'm looking outside. It's beautiful. It's sunshine. And I think it's like 72 degrees, maybe 73. It's beautiful. And it's like this for most of the year. But $3,700 a semester is a bargain. It is a steal, and I love that. Okay, so certain things are working. I want to give credit where credit is due. But you said you had to work three different jobs to put yourself through school while living at home. So you have no rent, you have no food costs. I assume you might have to pay for your car or something like that. Or maybe your parents got you a car, a beater, something like that. You're able to get to school. What were you doing in your jobs? I mean, it's like, I can't believe.

[A]

The tuition well, mind you, the freaking.

[B]

Like, don't mind me, mind.

[A]

Mind you, the minimum wage was like what, like $8 maybe or something like that. I was paying for my own bills essentially. So like my phone bill, I paid. I did buy my own like groceries in the house. My car insurance textbooks were insane.

[B]

This is me rolling my eyes.

[A]

Go on, roll your eyes. But I wasn't working. It was, it was part time work ultimately because I still needed to go to school. So it never felt and you know, like going out and having fun with friends. But I mean, it's chump change really when you think about it. Like it wasn't a lot, but it felt like I was working so hard for so little.

[B]

And what kind of jobs did you have?

[A]

I worked in retail. I worked as a server. Oh my God, I'll never do that.

[B]

I want specific. I'm going to look up here.

[A]

He's going to.

[B]

I'm going to verify your work record here.

[A]

I actually worked at Lucille's in Long beach on second street, but it's not there anymore.

[B]

That's fine. That's the retail place.

[A]

No, that was the barbecue restaurant place. That was a server there.

[B]

What about retail?

[A]

Oh my God. It had quite a few different jobs. It was this, I can't remember the name of it. They sold like college like sweaters and shirts and stuff. It was at the block, the campus.

[B]

Store or something like that.

[A]

It wasn't a campus store, it was just like a regular store. But it had all like nationwide different college campuses and stuff. It was at the block, which is now the Outlets in Orange. But yeah, I had a couple jobs there, a surf shop I once worked at, like random.

[B]

Random, whatever. Somebody would hire you, I'm your girl. You're gonna do it.

[A]

Yeah, right, done. Cashier.

[B]

Okay, so you finished getting your degree and what compels you to go get a master's degree?

[A]

You know what compelled me was I figured one day I'm gonna wanna retire and teach because I did love school. And I figured, you know, that'll be my backup plan. So let's just get knock it out now, it'll be easier. Everything's fresh, let's do it.

[B]

So you roll right into the master's program.

[A]

Right in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No gap.

[B]

And is this now the same major? Communication.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Wow. So you doubled down on that dog?

[A]

I did double down and you know, it was really about time. I was in a hurry. I was like, how can I get out of here fastest? Because again, I thought I was chasing a pot of gold.

[B]

What goals were you chasing?

[A]

Success, Chris.

[B]

Success, like through communications.

[A]

But you could. Because I was going to go into pr, marketing, event planning. I had known people that were doing it and they were living this cool life.

[B]

Why didn't you study advertising then? Or. Or marketing versus communication?

[A]

I was going to minor in marketing, but it would have costed me another semester. And I was like, not in that important.

[B]

Can't afford another eighteen hundred dollars.

[A]

Like, no, thank you. It was more about the time. It was more about the time than the money because I was pulling out student loans at that time, you know, And I was like, forget it. I was like, no time.

[B]

Let's put this in perspective, everybody. And you're going to roll your eyes at me, and I'm okay, if you do. Everybody. Eighteen hundred dollars is like my jacket shopping budget here. So Melanie won't get her minor.

[A]

Excuse me. You got a fat. You got to rewind the cost of living back then. You can't. You got to.

[B]

It's not that long ago. It's not like in the 70s. All right? So I'm like, damn, okay. Like right now I'm like, I can't wait for the jacket to go on sale so I can buy it.

[A]

So you can buy it.

[B]

You're. You're like, I'm not going to get a whole nother degree.

[A]

I was a poor little college student and I was racing. Honestly, it was the time. That's what I was really racing against because I was like, whatever. These are going to be payments I make anyway.

[B]

Okay, well, let's explore that.

[A]

But it was time. Yeah. I was very impatient.

[B]

I need to say this because my son's in college right now and he's going to Columbia and he's studying philosophy and writing and he's just trying to finish school. I'm like, you're supposed to enjoy this part. This is going to be the foundation for where you're going to go. What is the point? To finish school. To finish school. Because as it has worked out with your master's degree, with your fancy master's degree, you couldn't get a job for six to eight months.

[A]

No. You know what? People would tell me I was overqualified.

[B]

Yeah. That's a fancy way of saying you're really smart, but you have no skills. Just going to put that out there, everybody. And we're afraid that you're going to want more money than what we can pay you to do this very low thing.

[A]

That or you're going to leave too soon.

[B]

Yeah. So there's a bunch of reasons why they could say that. And so here's the funny thing. Even with your master's degree, you wind up doing something quite different. Event planning and marketing, which isn't under, I think the communications major is it.

[A]

It is technically, this is the thing. Every Cal state like umbrellas, communication differently. For us we had three tracks, so it was either you could go pr, like that route interpersonal or organizational. And ultimately my advisor was like, look, stick the track. You already have these classes. Stick with organizational, interpersonal, you can still go into pr. I'll hook you up with these internships, you'll be fine. And so I was like, all right, done.

[B]

Yeah. Because if I were advising a 17 or 18 year old kid right now and you want to get into marketing and event planning, I would just say go get an internship somewhere and just work like a dog and work your way up and learn the trade. You're going to go much faster, much farther than you would if you were to spend six years or whatever. You're going to get a degree and.

[A]

Mind you like the system is. So it conditions kids to really think, like it's a checklist, like you already have these classes, so stay here, don't waste your time, don't do this, don't do that. And like your son is just trying to, like you said, burned through because he just wants the piece of paper. So it's like I have the piece of paper now. I want to go do these things.

[B]

So eventually you wind up teaching back at the school, your alma mater. Right. Okay, so you're a full time professor now? Yeah, now. And what do you do on the side?

[A]

I teach mindful communication to professionals, to high performing professionals. I basically get to teach what I'm kind of teaching in the school. They don't really permit me to get too much into the mindfulness aspect. There's a little bit of it because more research is. An empirical research is coming out. But my hands are kind of tied. I'm playing within their parameters. But my wife, who's very much business oriented, was like, why don't you start your own consulting business? Like, screw the system. They're not paying you well anyway. Like screw the system.

[B]

So you have your school hours and then you do mindfulness communication coaching, consulting in the private sector, if you will.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Okay. In your workload, how does that balance out? Like what percentage is in your academic school life versus in your private practice?

[A]

It's really tough, to be honest, you know, when I'm in session, especially in the Beginning it wasn't as bad because business was kind of slow, to be honest. And I was figuring it out and it was. I really made the shift to go hard on my business was right before the pandemic. And then the pandemic happened and, and so all this shifting, right, Learning content, and now I'm a content creator and now I have to learn this and this. So now that things are kind of rolling, it's very difficult. I have to be so on my time management because my commitment at the school, luckily is only two days a week. I physically go two days a week. But as you know, with teaching, there's grading, there's emails, there's handling students, there's, there's all of that. And then I need to also, I'm a solopreneur, so I also have all these things that I'm juggling. And I find that in the beginning I was throwing spaghetti at the wall, figuring out like, as far as my business, like, I'm going to try this and I'm going to try that and I'm try that. And I think that's the biggest mistake I was making is not deciding. This is a phrase that I've learned from people who are in sales or like what's closest to the money. Put your time and energy there and then once you build a system and you get in a pattern, it will be a lot easier. And so the workload is tough. I go to school all day, Mondays and Wednesdays, and there from 8 to 5, I come home, I do a little bit stuff for my business. Then I have a wife and a dog I have to pay attention to to go handle that. And then Tuesdays and Thursdays, I'm all in, in my office working on my business. And then Fridays is a day where I kind of create content, plan content, plan, things like that. And I don't really have weekends, but I'm okay with that because I'm doing something that I truly love. And I've realized I never would have called myself a creative. But after being part of the Future pro group and seeing how different that word can mean to so many different people, and it just really, truly means to create. I notice that when I'm not creating, I feel like this angst in my body, like it's. Something needs to come out. And so my, my Friday, Saturday, Sundays are the creating. And often it's, it's writing or it's building a workshop or you know, writing some script for something that I'm working on. And it's Never. I think in the beginning I was trying to achieve this perfect balance. And what I've had to surrender to is that it's really about me being able to prioritize what's important this week.

[B]

What's the percentage for each Roughly. I'm not managing your timesheet. It's okay.

[A]

No, honestly, it feels very like, let's say this last week was heavy on school.

[B]

Yeah. You know what though? But if you just zoomed out and looked at the last couple of years, you have an answer. For people to understand what it's like to run to work a full time gig at a school and to run an independent business. What it's going to take.

[A]

It's gonna take everything. Yeah, but percentage wise, here's your answer. When I'm in session at school, when school's on, that's probably taking more of my time. Let's say 60, 40. And then when I'm out, like in the summer, oh my God. I can put everything towards my business, which is amazing. And then I have to plan for, okay, August is coming, semester's coming. What can I put on autopilot? What needs my time and attention?

[B]

So the beautiful thing about teaching at a school that you get summers off, so you have a three month break. Ish. And you have longer holidays, you have spring break and you have long winter breaks. Right. Okay. So there's pockets there.

[A]

I count down every time.

[B]

Yeah. Well, that's really interesting. Now we need to move to the thing that we want to talk about, which is this idea of mindful communication. It seems like really lofty. Like you try to put your hand around. It's like a cloud of vapor. And they're like, what the heck is that? Now you have a lot in common with my wife. That there's a deep sense of spirituality. There's what I always tell people. I'm really logical, so I get secondhand woo. And that's what's happening here. But what does that even mean, mindful communication?

[A]

So it's relatively newer in the communication space. But if I was to just be very simple and pragmatic about it. Mindful communication. Communication means your ability to communicate in the present moment. So you're operating from here. Not some story in the past, not some story in the future. So speaking from the present moment, without judgment and without attachment, because that's really. Mindfulness is the ability to be present, observing your surroundings without judgment and being detached from any specific outcome. So bringing those three principles into the way you communicate and not just communicate with Others, but communicate with yourself. That's what mindful communication is.

[B]

Who needs this?

[A]

Oh, God, everybody. We all need it. People suck at this. Chris, you know how judgmental we are.

[B]

And you're looking at me right now.

[A]

I'm looking at you. I am. You know, if we're going to be. Because we're. You and I are very straight up with each other. So when I first met you on Clubhouse, I don't know what this is. 2020, 2021. Your communication has changed since that. Until now, dramatically. I've noticed it. You were a little bit more. What would you call yourself? A charming razor blade. You were a lot more. I would listen because that's my superpower. I'm listening to people and hearing and breaking down their communication. I've noticed that now you speak with a lot more presence, meaning here now. And when people ask. God, people ask you questions all the time, and a lot of them are the same questions, right? You're very patient for the most part. And I just find that. I find that you're a lot more compassionate now as a teacher. Am I wrong? Have you been doing some work in the past couple years that we don't know about?

[B]

I don't think so. I haven't done any work. I mean, I work a lot, but I haven't done the kind of work you're tired.

[A]

Stop it. Stop. Okay. When did you start going to therapy? When did you start going to therapy, Chris? We're about to put some pieces together, y'all.

[B]

Let's do it. I didn't know. The tables have turned.

[A]

The tables have turned.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Deep breaths.

[B]

All right, Go ahead, ask your question.

[A]

Okay. When did you start going to therapy?

[B]

Long before that. Yes.

[A]

Okay. So what do you think has changed the most with you in the past three, four years? Your leadership style?

[B]

I don't know. I don't think much has changed, to be honest. I think there's some other phenomenon that's going on right now.

[A]

Ooh, please do tell.

[B]

Yeah. So for the record, I think I saw my therapist, a family therapist, for total of 10 sessions in the span of less than a year. And I didn't have any more problems with her. She was just so good at solving problems, and I was. I'm a very good student. So when I hear the lesson, I'm done. Let's go. What's the next one? And so I ran out of things to talk to her about, which is one of my big regrets in life, because she's since retired. She was older when I met her and so of course, I try to reach out to her. And she's long gone. Right. Not from the earth, but just not doing this anymore.

[A]

From this. Yeah, from her occupation, and I would.

[B]

Say that was probably 2007, 2006. It was a long time ago. And then I've been coach free for a long time. My mentor, my coach, my business coach, Kieran McLaren and I stopped working together right around the time of the Future. So that's 2014, I think we kind of just stopped working together. So from that point forward to 2020. So it's been six, seven, eight, 10 years since I've talked to a therapist. And I think the phenomenon that's going on here is I'm put this back on you. This is how I go like this. I just turn the tables.

[A]

Okay, okay. I'm into it. I'm into it. Let's dance.

[B]

Is initially when somebody comes upon a piece of content or drops into one of my rooms, it's like a shock, like in terms of cold water or electricity and they're not used to this. Who's this Asian man who's like super direct, brusque, and just really, just incisive in the comments that I'm making. Really thrifty with my words, but just trying to find the problem really quickly. And people will take it as arrogant, as aggressive, as violent communication until they get past the first couple layers. Once they get beyond that, they're like, oh, there's a warm, compassionate human being there who genuinely cares about people, who's doing this for what I believe is to be the right reasons and not the wrong reasons. Because you keep thinking there's a funnel coming, there's a enroll in this webinar and blah, blah, blah. And it just doesn't come in the way they think because it's so different. And I think it's your familiarity with me that has changed how you remember it. That would be my theory.

[A]

Fair. Fair theory, totally. And yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Familiarity, right. There's layers to people. I think that's what I appreciated about you the most, is you're very direct and authentic. You're like, I'm not going to blow smoke just to blow smoke. Like, you asked for help. I'm going to give you my advice. Right. And I really appreciate that about you. And I think that's what a lot of people appreciate about you. I just. And again, this totally be my own delusion. But just over the years, being in the future pro group, it just seems like You've been so much more, like sharing more or just more authentic, or more. Not more authentic because you were authentic before, but I think revealing more, maybe more vulnerability more.

[B]

We can talk about that. Yeah. What you're seeing is, I think, where a lot of us come from, which is I'm showing up to teach. Nobody wants to know about anything about me. I'm not here to tell you all about my personal life because you don't care. That's the story I tell myself. You were talking about your thoughts or the story that you tell yourself, and then they govern your feelings and your actions and all kind of stuff. I just think nobody needs to hear this. But if you watch some of the earliest videos, when I used to have students from Otis or Art center come by my studio and we would film those sessions, they would ask me, like, how'd you get started? What did you struggle with? And I would tell them, it's just those videos don't go viral and nobody's going into the archive. So people would say, oh, you've never shared this before. I'm like, actually, I have video proof that I have. And the story's been there. It's just no one wants to know it. The interesting thing is, I think when students come to your studio, they know you as a professor. They know your body of work. So of course they're going to ask for more personal things, because for them, that would be potentially some kind of unlock or insight into the thinking that made this person, that made this work. So that's what they're looking for. But if you're just bumping into our content as the social feed, the algorithm sends you something that may not be your first question. And so it takes them time to, like, want to know that. And this is what I preach to people when you're making content, initially, unless you're really about healing from trauma and dealing with your emotional wounds, the mother wound, all that kind of stuff, you may not just want to lead with that. You need to show up for people before they show up for you. Show me you care so I can care about you. And I do care a lot about people. My entire thesis for the future is to help people achieve their dreams. Because I think the world is a much better place when each of one of us is working in our zone of genius, fulfilling our highest desires and passions and doing purposeful, meaningful work. And if we can do that, I think there's going to be less violence in every definition of that word. And that's what I'm really here for. So that's what I'm putting out there. So as more people get to know you through your work, they become naturally more curious about who is this person. And I don't think you've ever encountered me. This is a bold statement where you've asked me a deeply personal question and I've shied away from it.

[A]

No, you usually answer.

[B]

Have I ever not answered?

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah. And that's the thing. I even tell people maybe my questions.

[A]

Need to get more deep. No, I'm just kidding.

[B]

They can. And I encourage people to.

[A]

You do? I've seen you tell people, like, ask.

[B]

Me anything, whatever you want to know. If you're brave enough to ask it, I will do my best to answer it. And I think only on one occasion, somebody asked me a question which I wasn't comfortable answering. And the reason wasn't so much that I didn't want to answer. It was because they're fishing for gossip. And then I'm like, since you're not involved in this story, I don't feel compelled to tell you this, and I just don't know how it's going to help anybody right now.

[A]

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

[B]

Don't get me wrong. I like gossip as much as the next person, but you gotta be in it. You gotta be in there with it.

[A]

You gotta be involved.

[B]

You gotta be part of it. If you weren't there, it doesn't feel right for me to talk about.

[A]

I love that. And I think what's so cool about being in the future pro group and being in this space that you facilitate in is seeing. And this is just. Maybe this might just be a me thing, but I think humans are so fascinating and that we all think we're so different. We think like, oh, but my. My problem's different in my business, Chris. Like, my. You know, mine's different. And you're always.

[B]

I like the different voices that you have there.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I'm like, I like the side of you. Keep going.

[A]

And I've just continuously watched you and your. I'm going to compare it to what I do. I'm like, God, I've seen people from all these different fields and all these different ages and different backgrounds asking the same question, and it's the same freaking answer. It's the same thing, but. And I'm like, so this is so interesting. Do we all just want to feel like we're special or unique or are they trying to maybe connect with you in a certain, you know, different way? They're desiring a different connection with you. And so what it got me thinking of when I. So I've had a lot of different jobs, and there was one job I had in public health where I was a tobacco cessation counselor. I'd help people quit smoking, and I would go into rehab, homes, jails, detention facilities, like all sorts of places I've met. I've worked in really nice places. Like, I've worked with all different types of people, but working in that specific sector where people are really looking at these folks who have been incarcerated or drug addicts very negatively. But when I would sit there and listen to them, I'm like, man, we all have the same problems. We all feel like we're not good enough. We're scared to be rejected. We have fear of abandonment. We're scared to be vulnerable. And I'm like, it's wild. So I've just noticed that, like, when we went to the fishing trip, you know, in Canada, and seeing you engage with all different types of people, like even people outside of our group, when people would approach you on the street, and it was like, we're all the same. We're all the same. And I think that if we can really, there's an unlock that happens when you. I guess, I don't know, maybe that requires us minimizing our ego to see that we're much more similar than we are different. But I really feel like it opens us up in ways where we can be pursuing our passions, we can be creating things that we thought we only could dream of, and we just. There's a lot of healing, I think that needs to take place, and a lot of ego check that needs to take place first.

[B]

Yeah, there is this thing that we all think we're so unique and different, that our business, our family story, our birth order may makes it so complicated. There's a tendency to want to create something that was, I think, to make something that's very simple and clear, unclear. And it's that kind of fogginess of the mind that we don't have to be accountable for a whole lot. And I'm. I'm a person about radical accountability to take responsibility for things. When we make a decision to go on a trip or not go on a trip, it's very uncomfortable because we keep thinking about the other decision that we didn't make the opportunity to cost. If I do this, what am I saying no to? And in that state, it allows us or gives us the opportunity to say, well, it's not clear what I should do so I'll do nothing or I'll just move very slowly through life. And I think that's the challenge there. And you're absolutely right. I'm 100% in alignment with you here. A business problem is a business problem. I don't care if you bake cakes or you walk dogs, you still have the same problems. Marketing, sales, customer service, delivery of product and making sure everyone has a beautiful customer experience. And it doesn't really matter, just done at different scales, speak to different audiences in different language and tools. But the core principles are the same. This is why I can answer questions that I'm not prepared to answer. Because you see patterns. It's the same problem over and over again.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And people keep insisting, no, you need to hear my whole story. And there is something to that. Right. If we're in a social circle and we're out by the campfire and there's 10 of us, I do want to know your story. I want to know how you got here, not here in this moment, but how you got here. Because then I really understand and appreciate you on a different level. But when it comes to coaching or learning or doing something, I will listen to that. You just have to pay for it. But at the end of the day, the answer will be exactly the same. So I'm being a first generation immigrant. I'm not even born here. I'm thrifty. That's a nice way to say I'm cheap, meaning I don't want to spend money on things that aren't necessary because I'd rather use that money to do something else. So if I don't have to tell you all the background and the context and you can just give me the answer and I can change my life. That's what I want. That's why I only saw Joan for 10 times, because it was that good. I'm like, I don't know what else to do.

[A]

Well, and I think what you're speaking to, though, requires a lot of self awareness. Right. And I think a lot of us struggle with that self awareness and being able to objectively look at your behavior, look at, examine. Did being a middle child, is it first immigrant? How is all of those events and layers of life and variables in life impacting me right now? And am I carrying stuff maybe that I shouldn't be carrying anymore? And I'm making it part of my story still. Right. And so I think you have a really, you probably went into your therapy experience very self aware and willing and open and like task Oriented like, let's do this. Not everybody does.

[B]

Yeah, I see that because people are in therapy for years, if not decades. And I was thinking, are you making progress the kind that you want? And I understand that if you've gone through really traumatic things in your life, that it can take a really long time to undo that damage. I understand that. I often tell people if it took 18 years for you to develop this, this problem or this fear, hopefully it doesn't take you 18 years to undo it. But it will take time. Not 18 minutes. Let's be realistic with our expectations. But something that Kir told me, my business coach, when I was thinking about going to a therapist, he said, if you're not willing to be honest, don't go. Just save your money. It's silly. You're just gonna make them work through all this and they already know you're lying or you're not telling the full truth and you just will drag it out. So I'm like, yeah, I'm going of my own free will. No one's forcing me to do it. There isn't a gigantic problem I need to resolve immediately. But I just want to go to learn how to be a better. At that point, dad, I felt like I was failing my relationship with my children and I wanted to be better fathers. So that's why I went, so that now, now I know what, what age this is. Because this is like 14 years ago. No, maybe more. Maybe it's like 17 years ago. Because it's been some time. Right. Cause I can date it to like when my children, what year, how old they were. Yeah.

[A]

And you know, I think that's commendable. And like, again, that takes self awareness to be like, hey, I'm feeling this particular way about how I'm interacting with my children right now, with the status of our relationship, how can I change it? And I think that's really vulnerable to admit that to yourself. And thank God your friend told you, like, don't waste your time. Don't go unless you're going to be super open because there's no progress that's going to be made. And I think that if more people, especially those that are really ambitious and probably listening to your podcast, that have big hopes and big dreams that they're going after, it requires a level of vulnerability and self awareness to be able to get there. And you know, they say that you end up like, I'm gonna probably screw up this phrase, but you end up teaching who you were, or your target audience ends up being like, who you were, something like that, where it's like, you know, your process and what you went through. Therefore, you can help other people through it. This took me years, and maybe it's a little cheesy, but I wanted to help people, right? And I was like, I love the coaching, but, like, what am I coaching them on? And it took me a long time to figure out, like, what do you say? The one line marketing, you know, deal, like your little pitch, your little elevator pitch. And it's because I still was figuring out my own process, my own experience. But then eventually I came up with this acronym. And I really think that it's a human. It's part of the human experience overall. And if we can walk ourselves through this, anyone listening to this can do the work themselves, right? They don't need to hire someone like me. I think it's helpful to have some type of professional outside of yourself to guide you, some type of mentor. But the first, I think, step is identifying a pattern that you're in, whatever that is, right? So P. So the acronym is peace. So P. I say patterns, what are they? Are you dating the same type of person? Are you coming up against the same obstacle in your business? What are the patterns in your life? And then the next layer, which is really tough for people, is ego deconstruction. So let's look at your ego. What are you attached to in your identity? And like, some people are really attached to their, you know, label as a CEO or a founder, or like, I'm the best at this, or in my family, I have all the answers. So, like, what are the layers of your ego that you're attached to? And then the A. I think once you identify patterns and you become really aware of how your ego operates in your life, we can have awareness of your core wound. So I think after those two things, deep awareness comes in, which is the A. And it's not just awareness in general, because you're developing awareness with the patterns in the ego, but the awareness of your core wound. And for anyone who's never heard of a core wound, it's a term used in psychology. There's different. People say sometimes there's five, eight core wounds. There's like seven I really focus on. But some of them are like, abandonment. Core wound, not being good enough is a big one. Fear of rejection, fear of vulnerability, fear of being misunderstood. Like all of those, when you can identify which one or two. Because normally when I introduce them people, they're like, oh, my God, I have all of them. And I'M sure on some level we do, but there's typically one or two that are super up on the list. Like for me, unworthiness was a big one and fear of vulnerability was a big one. And when we know how that shows up because that's often connected some crap in childhood that happened. Someone said something to you and you're holding on to it. That one bully said this or your mom said that and you're holding onto it and you're just showing. It's showing up in your adult life. Right. When we have that awareness of like, oh my God, right now I'm feeling triggered because I'm scared that my partner is going to leave me or my best friend is not going to. Whatever. Fill in the blank. Right. Once we have those wounds identified, you then can move into the compassion piece, which is where the healing takes place. That's the c. The compassion. And compassion is for yourself and the inner child. That is still activated in the adult. And also for the people, quote, unquote, that hurt you, that caused those wounds. Right. Because when we look at it from a different, compassionate lens, you see that if they were really mean to you and bullied you, they probably suffered some type of trauma of their own. Right. So we end up learning that most people are doing the best they can with what they know. And then I feel like once you go through all of those steps, you get your power back. So the E is for empowerment. You can now live this empowered existence because you're not giving your power away to everybody else. And I think that's like the biggest pattern I've noticed in my own journey. Once I identified my journey and I started sharing it with people, because at first it felt kind of silly. I felt a little self conscious about it. I was like, you know what? It works for me. I'm going to share it. And if people don't like it, they don't have to like it. But so many people are like, oh my God, now I have. I can kind of see the chapters that I'm in or where I'm at in my journey? So it's been pretty cool to share that with people and help them realize, where am I at in that? Do I even know what patterns I'm in? Do I know how my ego shows up? And it's been really cool to give language, I guess, to those different phases.

[B]

You mentioned a handful of core wounds. I wrote down 5. Which ones am I missing? Abandonment, rejection, vulnerability, misunderstood, unworthiness. What else am I missing?

[A]

Grief. So, like unprocessed grief is definitely one, and it doesn't have to just be. A lot of people hear the word grief and they think it means, like, the loss of a loved one. It could be an opportunity you didn't take, and you're like, damn, I should have taken that job with Chris. And I didn't. Did we say betrayal?

[B]

No.

[A]

Maybe those are the last two.

[B]

Okay, those are good.

[C]

It's time for a quick break, but we'll be right back.

[B]

Enjoying the conversation you're listening to right now. You're going to love what we have for you inside the Future Pro membership. From live group calls with myself and vetted guest Experts to over 600 hours of pro exclusive trainings and monthly networking, you'll have everything you need to fast track your growth. Check it [e-mail] Pro.

[C]

And Rebecc, welcome back to our conversation.

[B]

What is your core wound?

[A]

So my two biggest ones were fear of vulnerability and unworthiness. Those are my biggest ones. And a little bit of betrayal, I would say, would be the third, but. Yeah, I know, I know. Let's go there. Let's go there. I ain't afraid to go there.

[B]

Really?

[A]

No, I'm not at all.

[B]

Okay, well, I'm listening to this. I'm like, I don't have fear of abandonment, rejection. I'm not afraid of being vulnerable or misunderstood or. I feel very worthy. So every once in a while, I have a feeling I should have done this instead of that, but then I get over it real quick, and I have had. I've been betrayed myself, too, but I'm also over that. So I'm. I'm like, where's my core one?

[A]

So you're perfect. No, I'm just kidding. No, no, no, I'm kidding. You're totally kidding.

[B]

You said peace. What is perfect? Like, you're.

[A]

Can we have an acronym for perfect?

[B]

No.

[A]

But you know what, Chris? You're a product of doing this, the work. That's why you're like, these things are not easily activated in you because you've done the work. And so why I share the core wound is that a lot of people haven't done the work. And so those buttons are still activated.

[B]

Okay. And you had said something, that I shared something, and you said that was vulnerable or to. For you to admit that I need help, I don't feel like it's vulnerable at all. So when I see, like, the stress that's being caused by not knowing how to parent my own children and feeling frustrated and. And I can see it spilling over into my relationship with my wife. Like, it's creating tension between us, and it's not even about us. It's about our child and how to deal with the child. So I'm like, I need help right now. I'm a forever student. I've mastered some things, but there are masters who are beyond me. And every time I run into a corner or dead end or hit stumbling block, I know a formula that works really well. I'm going to share it with our people here. Guys, take out a piece of paper, get ready for this, this. This gem I'm about to drop. When you realize you have a problem, seek out the highest authority that's within your grasp and just pay them whatever they need to get paid so that you could learn from them. I've just done this consistently through my life, and it's worked time and time again. If you had asked me, Chris, I noticed your teaching style is a little different. I would say, well, because the last two years, I've spent a good deal of money to hire teaching consultants to teach me how to be a better teacher. And I'm learning different tools. And it's because it's my aspiration to be the best teacher I can be. And there's so much more to learn. And so that's what I've been doing. But it hasn't necessarily changed my care for somebody or the sharpness of the blade. It's just I want to try to structure the teaching in a different way. So anybody who's really good at teaching, who knows how to do it, well, I want to learn from you.

[A]

Yes. So you see, you have been doing something.

[B]

Yeah, but it's not what you think it is. That's. But it was still something, and we're always doing something.

[A]

Which is why what I love about.

[B]

You, I want to grow and learn every single day. I want to push myself physically, mentally, spiritually, all those kinds of things. I want to go way out of my comfort zone so I can find out what the edges of my world are. And I think that's the beauty of life. And I want to be able to share that experience with a lot of other people, you included, of course.

[A]

You know, Chris, I think you're able to ask for help because I don't think your ego runs your life. I think that's a big distinction. I think a lot of people, unconsciously, they don't know, but maybe after listening to this, they'll know. Their ego, their need to drive that car, live that house, have that title, is Driving the car. And therefore, if I ask for help, what are they going to say about me? Because da, da, da, da, da. That's ego. Sounds like you were like, I need help, yo. Like, let's. I know it's important in life, my kids.

[B]

I even broadcast it. I'm like, I'm not even hiding this. You know?

[A]

That's what I'm saying. So you're. You have a very healthy ego. Because the ego isn't bad. That's the one thing I definitely want to say is a lot of people, the ego gets a bad rep. Like, ego is the reason I did my hair this morning. Then I wanted to look nice. You know, Ego is the reason that we have financial goals. Like ego. You know what I mean? Like the jacket you want to get. That's ego. So it's okay. It keeps us. It's just. It can't drive the car, but it can be in the car. It just can't drive. So I think that's why you're so able to ask for help.

[B]

What are practical ways that I, a person, can identify egos driving this? What are certain telltale signs that you've seen in working with people?

[A]

Some of the biggest signs are judgment. So are you judging yourself? Are you judging others? And so whenever I say that, people are like, oh, so I'm never supposed to. Da, da, da, da. Okay, if that's you, chill. Okay. There's a difference between judgment and discernment. Judgment is me evaluating you. There's often some type of ranking. I think I'm better. I think my way is right. You are wrong. Right? That's judgment. Discernment is me looking at the situation and being like, is this gonna be in my best interest? Okay, you know what? Chris is deciding this, this, and this. Maybe this other leader is doing it this way. You know, my values are more in line with Chris. So I'm not saying, oh, this person's a bad teacher. They're da, da, da. I'm. Chris is way better. That's ego. But for me to be like, you know what? I think this is in more alignment with me and would serve me better. I wish that other person, well, they can do their thing, but Chris is a better choice. So I'm gonna go this way because we're in more alignment. That's discernment. There's this cheesy example I often give because this is a really hard notion for people to grasp. Because judgment is so deeply embedded in our brains for survival, we are constantly judging to say, is this Safe? Is this not safe? Am I going to be okay? Our brains are wired for that, but we also have the ability to observe and to consciousness and notice our thoughts. So imagine I was the captain of a ship and a storm was coming, and I'm like, all right. Oh, my God. And I panic. I'm like, everybody get inside. We're going to do this, and we're going to do that.

[B]

You do that.

[A]

Da, da, da. And you're like, no, wait. What if we can actually withstand the storm? Like, Chris, no. This is what we're doing. The end. Okay? That's me being judgment, freaking out. Ego is like, no, no, no, no, no. Because this is going to look badly on me. Discernment would be, you know what, okay, how bad is the storm? You tell me. This is how bad it is, okay? And then I look at this other person. What supplies, tools do we have currently? Who's aboard on the ship right now? I'm going to sit with them and think about it and be like, okay, this is, I think, the course of action we should take. So discernment is like this reflection. So judgment is the first thing with the ego. You can look. If you're in judgment, you're in ego. Another thing is our attachment to things like identities. That's a big one. And it's so weird. I feel like the human experience is this really interesting experience where we get attached because we know we are going to die one day. So we get attached to things. Nothing's forever, nothing's permanent, so we get attached. But then also, that very attachment causes so much pain and suffering. You know, I think about when I was an athlete for so long, my whole life played college for a little bit. And then when that no longer was my identity, I had a really hard time because I was so attached to, like, I'm an athlete. I'm this, I'm that. And I was like, now who am I at, like, an identity crisis because of my attachment to that? That was ego.

[B]

Okay, I want to talk about some of these things. There's some juicy tidbits here, strings I want to pull on, if you will. Let's talk about attachment, because I think attachment is the thing that prevents a lot of people from the exponential growth that they're capable of. So we have friends, and I think I can say their names. I was having a conversation with Mo. This is before Mo and I really get to know each other really well. And he's had at one of the future meetups in Santa Monica. And I told him like, hey, Mo, I just noticed something about you. You show up in a T shirt, kind of like, not really well put together. And you have to realize that when people see you looking like this, they're going to make assumptions about maybe you're not that thoughtful in the way that you show up in the world, that you're not showing people the respect for the situation. And he was really put off by that. He goes, chris, I got to be me. This ain't me, and I don't want to do that. And this is how it's going to be. And we started to examine and pick that apart. And I told him, let me ask you this question. If you go to an Asian person's house, will you take off your shoes? He goes, of course I would. I said, and if you go to a business meeting with Japanese business people, would you wear a suit? He goes, yes, I would. So when is that not part of your identity, and when is it? And why would you take off your shoes? He goes, it's a sign of respect. I said, okay, so when you dress the way that you want, you're saying, I'm going to disrespect the way that you want things because it's fighting against your identity. And so he so attaches his identity of whatever clothes he's wearing that he's not willing to change to make that concession. The difference between him and Drigo at that one moment was Drigo's like, I hear you. So Drigo started dressing differently immediately. He didn't sit there to calculate all the different reasons why or why not. He just heard something. He's going to try it and see where it takes him. And he's been on that continuous experiment. Good news for both gentlemen. Both Mo and Drigo, who you've seen on the channel, they're both moving into the next echelon of how they show up in. In the world. And I'm really happy for both of them. That's one simple example. Another example is I have a friend who's very emotional. And I said, you know, emotions cloud judgment because that mental state that you're in will color whatever you're seeing in a very specific light. And I said that emotions are good when you're expressing things of love, admiration, or whatever it is that you're. You're like, when you connect with a real human, let all those emotions go. But when you're looking at life, oftentimes the emotional goggles that you look through skew or distort reality. But this person argue with me. Who am I without my emotions? I'm an emotional person. I'm going to live in this. And they, they're reacting emotionally to the comment about maybe wanting to get that distance away from that. What I understand from you in terms of discernment is our ability to float above our emotions and to observe those things, to be able to decide when and where it is most to our benefit to respond or react that way.

[A]

Yes, a thousand percent, because. Or else the emotions driving that person, like you said, you're in being reactive instead of just being like, how do I want to respond to this situation?

[B]

And I'll share this with people because some people are going to feel really angry right now listening to me, like, who the heck are these two people talking about this thing? I'm going to have my emotions and that's the way it's going to be. And that's totally okay. I'm going to ask you this question, all of you. Does your state of mind, your state affect how you see things, how you respond to things? I just want you to sit with that question. Does your state of mind affect how you see things and how you respond to things? Let's go through it. Let's say you're late for an appointment, the interview, for the job of your dreams. So now you're in a panicked, anxious state. How you drive, how you grab things. And I've always noticed this. Whenever I'm anxious, I make careless mistakes. I'm like, oh, I didn't grab the right shoe. I run back and I, oh, I forgot this. And I'm not in a clear state of mind. Let's put another thing. If you've been the victim or the recipient of an act of betrayal for someone that you love and have a great relationship with, if they've betrayed you, you may be in a suspicious or jealous state of mind. So that person who's wronged you or you've been wronged in the past, maybe not, not even that person. Every time they have an interaction with someone else, you're like, oh, this must mean that. And we know this. We've. We've done it. I've done it. I've been a jealous person before. And I've also been on the other end of people looking at me with jealous eyes. And I'm like, just relax. There's nothing here. There's no smoke, there's no fire. It's the most platonic business relationship there ever is. So I just want you to sit with that everybody that your state, your mental State your thoughts govern how you see things. And if. If you look through the world through those lens, you're going to have a distorted version of reality. And I'm just trying to see things for what they are, not what I want them to be.

[A]

And you know what? You said it beautifully. Chris and I were in agreement, and there's a. I'm losing her name right now. But there's a person who studies emotions, and she was saying that essentially emotions are really just records of the past. And our brains are. When I see. Let's say you and I are a couple and I see you talking to this other woman, and I'm like, and she's really attractive and she's really pretty, and I'm just, like, starting to feel jealousy. And maybe I've been cheated on in the past. You've never done that. But I've been cheated on in the past. This feels. This feeling is bringing me back. It's taking me in a time machine. And so our brains are just trying to assess, oh, this looks familiar. What's the most familiar example? I have this one where I got cheated on, and now I'm projecting that into my future. So there's this. One of my coaches once told me, because I used to be guilty of this, being very emotional and being very reactive. And she told me, you cannot continue to build from the past or else you will just get more of it. She's like, you need to learn how to build from here now or in the future, where everything is possible. What kind of relationship do you want with Chris? Do you want one where you're all jealous and you guys don't trust each other and. Da, da. No. But again, our brains, that's how they work. And I think that's why it's so important to become an observer and notice. Okay, I'm feeling a little jealous right now. Why? And go into that and discern and reflect. Instead of me getting all upset at my partner and projecting the mess onto them and making them. You should have done this, you should have done that. So, yeah, emotions, totally. They can't drive the car.

[B]

Well, I did a little research here. The quote comes from Dr. Joe Dispenza. Emotions are a record of the past most commonly attributed to Dr. Joe Dispenza. We often use this phrase to explain how our current emotions can be heavily influenced by past experiences and memories, essentially acting as a kind of record of our past life. He goes on to say something like this, that because emotions are a record of our past experiences, if you can't think greater than how you feel. This thinking, feeling loop keeps you anchored to your past and creates a constant state of being. I love this idea. I didn't know about this, but this is. It just explains a lot. So let's. Let's sit in this. Okay, everybody. So when you're behaving in a way in which you're responding to a previous trauma or slight or whatever it is, you've had to deal with a grievance, you're saying, well, you must not love me, you must not care about me, and you're betraying me. When in fact, if you just look at objectively what has happened, it's not a very strong case for the grand conclusion that you have. But some part of this mirrors a little bit of what you've had happen to you in the past. And you're just reliving that memory, which is really tough because then you can't have real connections with people because you're not really being present. You're not being here to the moment. You're responding to some old story, old narrative, an old wound that hasn't fully been reconciled. And that's a tough place to be in. And so now when you say, who needs this? And you say, everybody, I'm like, yeah, pretty much. Pretty much everybody I know. Pretty much.

[A]

I say, like, we're really crappy time travelers. Like, we only imagine having a time travel machine, but you only. You don't get to control it. And it takes you back to all the crappy experiences you didn't like, like, no, thank you. I don't want that machine. But that's how we've trained our minds, a lot of us, and we willingly let our minds take us to the past. I will share a very practical way of how I had to change my state. And when I really first did this to tell people this stuff works. In college, in grad school, I went through a very traumatic breakup. Like, I thought me and this person were going to get married. I thought this was like, the what, homie breaks up with me in an email, dodges my calls, Dodges my, like, everything. All of a sudden, just imagine everything's cool, and then one day it's not. And I was like, what the heck happened? This was right before my comprehensive exams, which is like, what you need to get out of grad school. Okay. The timing could not be worse.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I had never in my life experienced depression. I, up until that point thought depression was like, all in your head, quote unquote. Because I was Very, like, driven and achievement based. And you just power through mind over matter, right? This is the first time in my life where I was could not get out of bed. Never experienced that before, ever. And I've had some crazy things happen in my life. That was the first time. And I remember for weeks I was not really eating. I lost like 15 pounds. And I'm already kind of a tiny person. Lost 15 pounds. I couldn't get out of bed. And every morning I would repeat the same thoughts of, oh, my God, she left. What did I do wrong? She won't pick up my calls. What's the point? I'm going to fill my exams. Like, just literally this loop I was in. I wouldn't eat, I wouldn't talk to anybody. It was in just the same tape for weeks. And then I don't even know how this happened, but maybe I picked up a book in my room or something. Oh, I think it was Eckhart Tolle, the Power of now book. I reopened. And he basically said, like, if we can change the thought we're having in the morning when your subconscious is so open in the morning, and also before we go to bed, let's just see what happens. So I finally just got curious. I was like, okay, I can't live my life like this. And am I really going to let this one person destroy my whole academic career? I need to pass these exams, right? At the very least, I need to get my butt up and study. And so I started this practice of. Instead of replaying all of the trauma of how the breakup went through, every morning I would do that. I would, like, wake up and be like, wait, is this real? Did that happen? Because it felt like a dream. So what I started doing was before I even opened my eyes, because, you know, you're awake, I made myself say three things I was grateful for. I forced myself. I was like, what are you grateful for? Some days it was just like, I'm alive, I have a nice bed to sleep in, and I have a job. Yay. That was it. But then as I kept doing it, and I would do it before bed, and I would journal it before bed. Three things. Three things. And I mean, there's so much research now on gratitude and how powerful it is in changing our state. It's one of the most powerful emotions to anchor you into the present moment. The most powerful is gratitude, because you can't be anywhere else when you're trying saying what you're grateful for. You have to be here. And so that little practice changed my State changed my thoughts, changed how my body was feeling. I started being able to actually eat food and then slowly started making different decisions because my emotional state was different. And so that was one of the places where I was like, oh, this actually works. And that's why I just wanted to share that with people, because it works. It's real. But you got it. You just gotta try it, and you gotta just. You gotta do it. And I think people aren't willing to try it sometimes until they're really on their knees and they've hit rock bottom.

[B]

Like I was sometimes you need that. I think a lot of us, this is one of my theories of life. So let's see if we are in alignment here. I think we have to hit rock bottom sometimes to force us to make different decisions with our lives. That sometimes people don't get off smoking or drinking or drug abuse because they haven't hit that rock bottom. And when they finally hit that rock bottom, they have to come to terms with, I think there's only one more bottom to this, which is I no longer exist. And I want to make different decisions. And so you go the other way. There's nothing controversial about what I'm saying there. What I'm saying is what people do is they experience some kind of setback. Mental relationship, physical, spiritual, something. They have a setback, and what they do is they get fuzzy about it and they avoid the feeling of, like, how bad it feels. And so they kind of gloss over it. So they're bound to repeat this over and over again. When I have a negative emotion or a feeling about myself of not being worthy or letting my ego drive, I just stop and think. I want to sit in that pain, in that negative motion. And in fact, I want to amplify that to its nth degree. So I create, like, a mini catastrophe in my mind. But it's guided, right? It's not, like, out of control. So I take myself to, like, what is the next step, next step? And next step, what is the bottom of this pit? Because I want to go there now, and I want to sit in that emptiness so then I can zoom back up to where I'm really at emotionally and say, I know where this, how this ends. Why don't I just make the decision now instead of having to go to the bottom to make that decision? And that's how my mind operates.

[A]

Exactly. And that's. I think what we need to do is. Because what you did was you just put things into perspective for yourself. Is it really worth it? Is this really the hill I want to die on. Is this the motion worth my time, my energy? And is this going to produce the outcome I actually want? No, it's not. And I'm not saying to, like, bypass your feelings and don't ever be angry or people are like, so are you saying it's not okay to feel the negative things? No, absolutely. Feel it. Like you just said, play it up, feel it, do it. What's that gonna give you? And then let it simmer down. There's research that shows really our emotions are fleeting. They only last seconds. But what makes it last longer is the story we attach to it. That's why people end up being angry for days. Or couples fight over something for days and then they finally resolve it three days later.

[B]

Yeah, I think there's this thing that reminds us that we're alive and that we're human in that we want to relive that emotion over and over again. My wife has said this to me. I just want you to be angry for a minute because I want to see that behind the robot, there's a human in there that cares about this kind of stuff. I say I care about this deeply, and when I go negative, and when you see it, it will be the most horrifying thing that you see and you not want that at all. But if you want to, I will let the dragon out. And I'm totally in control of the dragon. But here we go. And of course, I show it to her, and she then has tears of joy. I'm like, this is the strangest response I've ever seen. Me being unreasonable, irrational, emotional, angry is what you wanted to see because you just wanted to know if I care. But I care a lot. I just choose not to express it in negative ways. And so I think for people, it's my theory there that that story of abandonment, it's not a good story. It's not one that lifts us up. It's definitely not one that empowers us, but just reminds us we're human. So we relive it over and over again. And I find this with my children, too. So we used to sit around and tell stories about my childhood. And it was pretty rough, not gonna lie, pretty rough. Stories of abandonment, people forgetting about me and just feeling, like, lost and alone. And my sons, both are like, oh, dad, what a childhood. Tell us more. We love this. They're like eating popcorn in my misery.

[A]

They don't need tv. They have you.

[B]

Yeah, I'm just telling them, like, they're like, oh, my God. How could grandma do this to you? Why would she do that? I'm like, grandma did the best that she could with the information she had, and she just. Just didn't know. She didn't know. Now I get to have fun telling those stories, but there wasn't fun when I was living it. But I find that my children don't want to hear stories about success and overcoming triumph. They want to hear the dark, sad stories. And I think it's because they feel it in here and it reminds them that they're alive and dad's a human being. It's not a robot.

[A]

Yes. I. I mean, I'm like, your kids. Like, I love sad movies, like dramas. What is wrong with you guys? Oh, it's just it. But it speaks to what you're saying. Like, I want to watch. My wife loves comedy and stuff like that, and she's like, why do you want to watch a sad movie? Like, are you kidding me? This person's gonna. Like, this is. Why are we watching this? You know, it doesn't end well, but I think there's just something like you're speaking to that's like, wow, they survived that, or, wow, they didn't, and how lucky am I? So, yeah, I think you're onto something.

[B]

There's a friend that we went on a trip with recently. I don't want to reveal too much information because then people will figure out who it is. This person's an intellectual, extremely well read, can quote different things. I'm like, oh, my God, the brain on this person. They just read books for fun. Like, they're eating potato chips. And we were just having a conversation without the person in the room. It's just saying, yeah, I don't think this person knows how to lie. And we're all looking at each other, and I said that. I'm like, it just doesn't feel like they could lie because it doesn't make any sense. And then we joke because the person's so robotic, it would be inefficient to tell a lie. It's like, what is the point of telling lies? You know, it's kind of like how they operate. So we kind of think like that, you know, robotic people, people who are very intellectual or are optimized for positive outcomes. What is the point of not telling the truth? It's just. It's hilarious. So for me, it's like, yeah, I'm kind of like a robot deliberately. And so the. The shock and surprise to a lot of people is when they Meet me outside of context of a teaching environment. They're like, oh my God, you smile a lot and you're a lot more charming than I thought. You're a weird mother effer. You know, you're joking around and you do goofy, weird things that only adolescents do. I'm like, yeah, because I'm human. And in the context of teaching or workshopping or doing a serious role play, where do I bring that out, you know?

[A]

Yeah, it doesn't fit.

[B]

It doesn't fit.

[A]

It doesn't fit.

[B]

Why would I bring it out? It's just like. Would be a non sequitur. It would just be like left field bro contacts, that kind of stuff. But, you know, if you're out on a fishing trip with me in a boat, gonna get fun, and you're pulling your fish, you know, I'm like, okay, now bonk the fish in the head. This is the next step. And like, no, not like that. You'll see emotion from me. Because in the context of the boat, that makes perfect sense.

[A]

Yeah, because I think when you're teaching, you're really tunnel visioned in and you're trying to give this person as much value as possible for what they're trying to learn or where they're at. Right. And so you kind of remove all the other stuff to make room for that. It makes sense.

[B]

Yeah. Unless it's necessary. Yeah. Which I do do as well. But there's not often times when that's.

[A]

Appropriate or is there clones of Chris. And there's teacher Chris and then there's other Chris.

[B]

Other Chris. Well, you know, I used to teach at Art center and it's a 14 week class for about 8 to 12 students at a time. And we'd sit in this really big room. It's a perfect room because all the walls are whiteboards and I could draw on every single wall. And they kind of sit in the center. And oftentimes we put up our work, we critique. And in that moment, I'm like, you guys are a little uptight here. Why did you draw this thing? I would draw something inappropriate around there. Like that's what it looks like to me. And then everybody's like, oh my God, did the teacher just do that? I'm like, yeah, because that's kind of what you presented to us right now. I'm just saying what everybody's thinking but is too afraid to say. And I will do really weird, goofy things with them so that they can break out of this tight container that they put themselves in. And then there it's very appropriate for me to get weird and wacky.

[A]

Absolutely. If anything, you're enhancing their learning environment because they're relaxing.

[B]

That's what I tell myself at night.

[A]

You are. You are. We're both delusional.

[B]

You have to process through years of trauma therapy. You know, it's like, oh, my God, I can't believe the teacher said that about my work.

[A]

No, it really. It disarms people. And I think that's one of the things that, you know, when I. I do the same things, Chris. Like, I mean, come on. I'm going to high to not high school. I'm sorry. College students, 18, 19 years old. I'm like, let's talk about. Let's talk about trust. Let's talk about betrayal in relationships. And they're all posturing for each other. So, yeah, like, I gotta bring some. Something silly. Something good.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Of course. You have to show them that you can be this way.

[A]

Exactly. Like, it's okay to be yourself. It's okay to show up imperfectly. It's okay to say the wrong thing. It's okay. So I think that's just kind of what you're doing in those moments. And you're not a robot, but you're picking and choosing. When is it efficient and appropriate to have those versions come out?

[B]

Did you already tell us your betrayal story?

[A]

I don't know if we. I mean, there's. There's. There's a few, but one.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Wow, that was a serious wound.

[B]

Okay, let's look at the three things you said about your core wound. Vulnerability, unworthiness, and betrayal. So which one of those things do you think would be helpful for people to understand and unpack? And. And we'll use you as an example here.

[A]

I feel like vulnerability is a pretty universal one that a lot of people struggle with. You know, for me, I did not realize this, but one. I grew up in a household where we didn't talk about feelings. So vulnerability was not a thing. We did not do that. It was like you had to kind of fight to be heard. And as the middle child, I had to fight to be seen. Middle childish. I had to fight to be seen. And so while it's happening to us, when the core wound is happening, you don't know what's happening. Right. And now it's only in reflection. When you look back, you're like, oh, yeah, I was fighting to be seen. But I really think where I started to struggle with vulnerability, it started there in my household, where we didn't express Feelings openly. You had to be tough when there was conflict. We didn't talk about it. You just assumed everybody was sorry and would behave normally the next day. But I think for me in particular, and this is for anybody who feels other. But being a queer person in the 90s and early 2000s, I felt like I was performing all the time. And vulnerability is really us being authentic, us being our true selves. I didn't feel like it could ever be my true self because I was so scared of being rejected. And that's what vulnerability is. We're hiding who we are, pieces of who we are to be accepted by the group. And so I did that forever, all through my teenage years, then into my early 20s, and I was like. And I grew up in Orange county, which is rather conservative. And so I did not realize the posturing that became so normal in the switching. Like, you know, how we code switch with our words. I'd code switch in other ways to blend in, you know, And I'd be like, okay, well, how can I behave to be accepted in the group? And it's not just with my sexual orientation, but other ways. Like being an athlete, you had to be tough. If I was hurt, I sucked it up. Coach didn't accept that it was the playoffs. You better, you know, suck it up. And unless something is broken, like, keep going, right? So there's all these ways that we posture to be accepted as human beings. And I feel like this is why. It's a core wound that's so vital. But the fear of vulnerability, I think, really stems from not being accepted, you know, in society and being othered. And there's so many other things. You people could talk about race, you could talk about a disability that you have. I mean, there's so many other things. And I think that was the hardest part. Just growing up and always having to hide some piece of me was the biggest wound for me. And then to get in this work where I'm like, let's talk. I have to be my authentic self. Like, I remember the first time I was teaching, I was like 23 years old teaching at the university, and I was like, do I come out to my students? Do I just wait for the topic to happen? Am I closeting myself if I do that? Am I not being authentic? It was a really weird thing to think about. And this, again, can be substituted for things that we share and don't share. You know, there's so many things that we don't share, then disclose with people. And then when there's Moments. There's those, like, sliding door moments of, this is an opportunity where I could share something with Chris, but I'm scared he's not going to accept me if I share this. So there was always this big fear of not. But really what it comes down to for everybody is if we don't accept those parts of us, of course we're going to fear that other people won't. But the moment I started really accepting all of my differences and being like, and if I share something with this person and they reject me, guess what? They're not for me. And then I was okay with releasing them. So it was a big lesson. But I think the vulnerability piece is when you can learn to be really comfortable with who you are. Are. Nothing really can stop you because you're not going to fear anything, really.

[B]

You're breaking some stereotypes, I believe. Even though your dad is whiteish, it seems like this is a very non Latin family. If I think of Latin families, it's like emotions and talking about this, and it's all there. Like, put aside the machismo thing, because guys tend to hold back feelings for judgment or fear of judgment of being not manly enough. And I get that. But you guys would just, like, sweep feelings under the rug. Even your mom.

[A]

Like, there'd be a big fight. Oh, yeah. And this is the thing, kind of weird thing of how I grew up. My parents were together, but it felt like they were divorced because my mom worked graveyard and my dad worked like eight to five. So there was always only one parent home. It was really interesting to grow up like that, except on the weekend, they'd both be home, but there would be these blowout fights. Me and my siblings, the three of us, one parent trying to manage all that craziness. Right. We would fight. There'd be emotion. There's definitely that.

[B]

Who's fighting?

[A]

Siblings. My. My sister and my dad. Me and my.

[B]

My brother.

[A]

My dumb crap that families fight about.

[B]

Like, tell me one thing. I don't. I don't know. I. I haven't been in many of those fights. So what are you guys fighting about?

[A]

Like, I remember my sister was in high school, and she'd fight to stay out later.

[B]

Okay. Curfew things.

[A]

Yeah. And then I would be like, my brother and I are four years apart. So if I'm like eight years old, he's four, I don't want anything to do with him. And I'm trying to play him. I'm like, get out of here. And we physically fight. Right. And my dad is Just like, you guys are all getting on my last nerve, all of you. Right? And then, like, other things. I remember other more serious things, like fighting over money. Like, there's not enough money. There's a lot of scarcity in my house. And so.

[B]

Well, who's fighting over it?

[A]

My parents or me saying, like, you.

[B]

Shouldn'T spend money on this.

[A]

No, Like, I. I played sports a lot, so guess what? Sports cost money. And my dad. I remember my. My dad, bless him, He's. He's working on it. Still would be like, oh, my God, this is so expensive. Like, the jer. You know, the jersey. And I'm a kid, and I'm like, okay, but you put me in this sport.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

What do you want me to do?

[A]

What do you want me.

[B]

You get a job at 4. Okay. Yeah.

[A]

And so I just remember there's all this projecting of emotion, but we never actually apologized or talked about, hey, that wasn't right. I shouldn't have done that. It was just like, he'd buy me something. Be like, here you go. Like, that was his way of saying sorry.

[B]

The peace offering.

[A]

Yes, There you go.

[B]

Okay, I get it. So in many immigrant cultures, feelings are a sign of weakness. Predominantly for men, sometimes for women, as we're finding out. And this idea of you hiding who you are. When did you come out to your parents?

[A]

Not till I was, like, 19 or 20.

[B]

Is this, like, in college?

[A]

Yeah, I was already in college. Probably my. Oh, you know, because I started college early. I started at 17. It was probably, like, my third year of college.

[B]

And what made you decide to come out to them and how did they respond?

[A]

It was so another traumatic breakup. Not as traumatic as the one I told you, but a bad breakup. And it would just be kind of weird. Like, all of a sudden, this person was around. Now they're just not around. You guys just aren't.

[B]

Like a friend now disappears out of your life.

[A]

Exactly. So it's kind of, like, weird, like, where so and so. And I would lie, and then I was giving me a lot of anxiety to just lie. And I was out with everybody else except my family. I was live. Literally living a double life. And I remember. I'll never forget. Kudos to my mom. My mom was, like, in the kitchen, and I just, like, had to pump myself up. And she already knew. Parents know, like, when you're about to bring something, they suspect, they suspect.

[B]

They just don't want to have that conversation, but they suspect.

[A]

They're like, shit, some. Some bomb's about to be Dropped.

[B]

We know. We know it's coming. And it is like denial.

[A]

So I came and I just said, hey, mom, me. And so. And so broke up. And then I just started crying. And I never cried in front of my parents ever. It was like all this pent up tears, right? Came out. And my mom is such a g. She just took a breath and she was like, well, you know what, honey? She's an effing idiot. And I was like, yes, mom.

[B]

She did a classic mom thing and she just like, let the other part slip right by. It's like, yeah.

[A]

And then with my dad, we never had a conversation about it because, I don't know, I'm assuming my mom told him something, but he never approached me about it. He never said anything. But my dad's always been super supportive and very liberal and very open. So I never suspected that, like, he would abandon me. But there's always that fear. Even me. My parents loved me. I had a very loving family. But you still wonder, is this the thing that's the exception?

[B]

Okay, so I see two of these core wounds attached. Your fear of vulnerability, of revealing who you are, is connected to your fear of abandonment. Because if I show up as myself, does that mean I'm no longer in your life and you'll never accept me again?

[A]

You're a pro. See?

[B]

Hey, I could do this.

[A]

Yes, exactly.

[B]

I want to land the plane on this. Your mindfulness communication skills coach. How are you going to help me to transform? What is the outcome of working with you? Who do I become?

[A]

What do you get from working with me? You know, I would say that the biggest thing I do for people is I really help them because we're removing old beliefs and we're removing emotional patterns. These things are invisible, right? So I help people remove that. And typically what happens, the transformation that people report is after we remove that, they feel more one, empowered, confident, and just really back to their authentic selves. Like, they're like, I don't feel like I'm playing a part anymore. That I'm not doing things to appease people.

[B]

Playing a role.

[A]

I'm not playing the role anymore. Now I get to just kind of like breathe. And so I would say the transformation, I mean, is cheesy as it sounds, is they're able to communicate authentically and really just be who they want to be without all the pressures of what's. What's my mom going to think? What's my brother going to think? What's it. They get plugged back into themselves without all the junk that they've collected along the way.

[B]

So cheesy.

[A]

So cheesy.

[B]

So cheesy. It's always easy. I'm just kidding. I don't know why you always say that.

[A]

It's not like giddy is cheesy. I'm sure. I don't know.

[B]

Well, don't say that. But you framed it as cheesy. Now I'm thinking cheese.

[A]

Okay, no cheese.

[B]

So I think, if I may use slightly different words to describe the benefit of working with someone like you is have you ever felt like you've been carrying around this invisible weight all of your life? The weight of being somebody that you're not supposed to be and hiding in plain sight. So I imagine that then all of a sudden, you can become unburdened. And you didn't realize this whole time that your posture is weird and you've never stood up fully straight, erect. And now, free from that burden, unencumbered by it, you're lighter. In every essence of the word, you're lighter. And you're more able to express who you are, to be more present in the moment and to have stronger relationships with the people that you care. And this could be your staff. It could be your manager, your boss, your partner in life, or the people that you show up for to coach and to teach and to facilitate or whatever it is that you do. Is that an okay way to say it?

[A]

That's perfect. That's actually my elevator pitch you helped me create years ago when I said I teach people to mindfully communicate and manage their emotions so they can have deeper connections with themselves and others.

[B]

On that note, that's a perfect way to end this conversation. Melanie, I know we've done this dance for a while, and I'm glad that we're having this conversation now. Perhaps the way that the universe works to get a little woo. I wasn't ready to have this conversation with you until this very moment in time. So we're exactly where we need to be at the moment in which we're supposed to be in it. I genuinely thank you for having this conversation, and I want to take you up on your offer sometime to hang out with my wife, because she needs a kindred spirit, a gentle communicator, someone who understands this stuff, but also to woo the F out. And that would be wonderful. So let's set up that play date, if you will.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

Before we get out of here, I want to ask you, if people want to get in touch with you, where do they go?

[A]

They can go to mindlesstomindful.com or they can find me on socials melaniewitney and I would love to connect with them there.

[B]

Beautiful.

[A]

My name is Melanie Whitney and you are listening to the Future.

[C]

Thanks for joining us. If you haven't already, subscribe to our show on your favorite podcasting app and get new insightful episodes from us every week. The Future Podcast is hosted by Chris do and produced and edited by Rich Cardona Media. Thank you to Adam Sanborn for our intro music. If you enjoyed this episode, then do us a favor by reviewing and rating our show on Apple Podcasts. It will help us grow the show and make future episodes that much better. If you'd like to support the show and invest in yourself while you're at it, visit thefuture.com and you'll find video courses, digital products, and a bunch of helpful resources about design and the creative business. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you next time.