333 - Leader or Follower? - With Chris Do

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Futur with Chris Do – Episode 333: Leader or Follower?

Introduction

In Episode 333 of The Futur Podcast, titled "Leader or Follower?", host Chris Do delves into the dynamics of leadership and followership within both personal and professional settings. While typically engaging in dialogues with various experts, this episode features a solo conversation where Chris explores the balance between leading and following, the impact of defined roles, and the importance of understanding individual contributions within a team or family structure.

Leadership vs. Followership

Chris Do begins the episode by addressing a common misconception: that individuals in leadership or executive roles are inherently poor listeners or followers. He challenges this notion by sharing his own experiences and preferences in role dynamics.

“I can play two roles. I could be the general or I can be the soldier. The general leads, has a plan, and the soldier executes the plan.” [00:45]

Chris emphasizes the discomfort that arises when roles are blurred, advocating for clear boundaries and defined responsibilities. He critiques the prevalent trend, especially among younger generations, towards collaborative decision-making, arguing that it often leads to groupthink and compromised outcomes.

“I don't want it to be a group think. I don't want it to be a series of compromises because no one's ever happy.” [02:30]

The Role of the Black Sheep

Transitioning from organizational roles to family dynamics, Chris introduces the concept of the "black sheep." Drawing parallels between family structures and corporate environments, he explains the essential yet often misunderstood role of the black sheep.

“The black sheep is a critical role to play within the family because what they do is they bring new ideas.” [03:20]

He narrates a metaphor where the black sheep warns of diminishing resources, prompting a potential shift that saves the community, whereas ignoring such voices can lead to stagnation or downfall.

“The black sheep leaves that island or the village and finds new, more plentiful, prosperous land and have fruit that's abundant. And then the old tribe dies.” [04:10]

Importance of Defined Roles

Chris underscores the necessity of clearly defined roles within any group, whether it's a family or a corporation. He argues that understanding and respecting these roles fosters healthy relationships and facilitates personal growth.

“If you have a clearly defined role, let the person do what it is that you gave them the opportunity to do versus then trying to micromanage every single part of it.” [07:30]

By maintaining distinct roles, individuals can focus on their strengths and contribute effectively without the chaos of overlapping responsibilities.

Challenges in Corporate America

Addressing corporate environments, Chris critiques the push for inclusivity and egalitarianism when it leads to role ambiguity. He highlights how such environments can become "super messy," hindering productivity and innovation.

“There's so much of this happening in corporate America. I think when we're trying to be inclusive and magnanimous where everybody gets to have a word and everybody's an equal. It's super messy.” [01:50]

Chris advocates for a balance where roles are respected, and leadership is clear to prevent inefficiency and dissatisfaction among team members.

Personal Experiences and Relationships

Drawing from personal anecdotes, Chris shares how these dynamics play out in his own life, particularly in his relationship with his wife. He illustrates the frustration that arises when roles are not respected, emphasizing the importance of autonomy and trust in collaborative efforts.

“If you knew how to fix it, why don't you fix it? If you want me to fix it, let me fix it.” [06:45]

He also reflects on advice from his mentor, Kier McLaren, highlighting the importance of allowing autonomy in roles to prevent micromanagement and maintain healthy interactions.

“You can tell me what you want, you can tell me how to do it, but you can't tell me both.” [07:00]

Key Takeaways and Conclusions

Chris Do wraps up the episode by summarizing the critical points discussed:

1. Respect and Understand Roles: Recognize the importance of each role within a group or family and ensure that responsibilities are clearly defined.
2. Flexibility and Empathy: While roles are distinct, occasionally swapping them can foster empathy and personal growth.
3. Avoid Micromanagement: Trust team members to execute their roles without undue interference, allowing them to leverage their strengths effectively.
4. Value Diverse Contributions: Embrace the unique perspectives that roles like the black sheep bring to the table, as they are essential for innovation and adaptation.

“To know what those roles are and then from time to time share the roles. It helps us with empathy, helps us allow one another to grow in our own personal development.” [07:30]

Chris emphasizes that understanding and respecting role dynamics is crucial for the success and harmony of any group or family.

Conclusion

In this insightful solo episode, Chris Do effectively explores the intricate balance between leading and following, the significance of well-defined roles, and the value of diverse contributions within a team or family. By sharing personal experiences and practical insights, he provides listeners with a deeper understanding of how to navigate and optimize these dynamics for personal and professional growth.

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Notable Quotes:

• “I can play two roles. I could be the general or I can be the soldier.” [00:45]
• “I don't want it to be a group think. I don't want it to be a series of compromises because no one's ever happy.” [02:30]
• “The black sheep is a critical role to play within the family because what they do is they bring new ideas.” [03:20]
• “If you have a clearly defined role, let the person do what it is that you gave them the opportunity to do versus then trying to micromanage every single part of it.” [07:30]

For More Information:

Visit thefutur.com/podcast for show notes, additional resources, and to explore more episodes of The Futur Podcast.

Transcript

[Chris Do]

Hey, everybody. Chris here we're trying something a little bit different than what we normally do for the podcast. We're doing solo episodes. These are shorter, more contained, built around certain themes and questions I think are very relevant for us to be talking about. So wherever you're listening to this, however you're seeing this, let us know in the comments and the feedback what you think and we'll make some adjustments. I think it's commonly kind of misinterpreted that when someone is in a leadership role or an executive role, that they're actually not good listeners or good followers. And that might be the case with many folks. And what happens is people get really intimidated around them and they don't offer up new ideas for suggestions. But just speaking for myself, I don't think I'm alone here. I can play two roles. I could be the general or I can be the soldier. The general leads, has a plan, and the soldier executes the plan. Where I'm really uncomfortable in all this stuff is being a general soldier. And I find that a lot of especially younger types of people, they like to make decisions together. Everything's a co creation, everything's a collaboration, and there's a wonderful time and place for that. But when we're launching new products and ideas, I don't want it to be a group think. I don't want it to be a series of compromises because no one's ever happy. I mean, there's a joke about this, that a compromise is when no one's happy. So when we're all talking about, say, marketing campaigns or creating new products or things like that, if a group of us get together and design it together and try to figure it all out, and I don't feel good, they don't feel good. I don't think anybody really wants this. So I like clarity and definition and clear boundaries. Oh, you want to run this project, you take ownership over it. If you hit it out of the ballpark, great. I'm here to support you. Tell me what my role is. I will do everything I can to the best of my ability. Or you can say, chris, what do you want to do? And I want to say what I want to do. And then I expect the same, which is, I'm going to fall in line. I'm going to do exactly what you want to do to the best of my ability. And I often find that it gets really blurry. There's so much of this happening in corporate America. I think when we're trying to be inclusive and magnanimous where everybody gets to have a word and everybody's an equal. It's super messy. I'll tell you something. I don't know how to drive a speedboat. So when I'm on that boat or on a sailing boat, there's a captain. Tell me where to pull the rope, Tell me what to do. I'll scrub the deck. I'm super happy. And I'm okay with switching roles. I found a long time ago when my wife and I were in a relationship workshop, they said that the family has usually, like five roles. And they created avatars, the lion or something. There's many different avatars. I don't remember any of that. But what I do remember, it really stuck with me, is that every family has a black sheep. And the black sheep is the saddest character, the most misunderstood and hated character within the family. The black sheep typically is the rebel, the one who goes punk rock, gets a tattoo and gets the ear piercing and seems to not do anything that the family thinks is good. But the black sheep is a critical role to play within the family because what they do is they bring new ideas. So if you can think. In ancient times, if we're on an island and we think life has been good, the black sheep says, you know what? The water source that we all survive and depend on, it's drying up. We should get off this island and go somewhere else. And they're hated. They're an outcast. They're casting doubt on the tribe leader, the chief, on that kind of stuff. And they don't listen to this person. But a few people go along with the black sheep. And the black sheep leaves that island or the village and finds new, more plentiful, prosperous land and have fruit that's abundant. And then the old tribe dies. That's a danger when we don't understand the role that we all play. And what's unhealthy with families and with corporations and companies is when we don't share those roles, when we don't move them around.

[Rich Cardona]

It's time for a quick break, but we'll be right back.

[Chris Do]

Enjoying the conversation you're listening to right now. You're going to love what we have for you inside the future Pro membership. From live group calls with myself and vetted guest experts to over 600 hours of pro exclusive trainings and monthly networking, you'll have everything you need to fast track your growth. Check it [e-mail] pro.

[Rich Cardona]

And we're back. Welcome back to our conversation.

[Chris Do]

Likewise, the chief, the head of the family winds up becoming the historian, the person who preserves ideas, cultures and customs. Now the black sheep looks at the chief, saying, you're old fashioned, you're out of touch. We don't do things like that anymore. Well, what they don't realize is they bring in, in corporate terminology, institutional knowledge. We do these things because this is how people don't die. We learned that we don't eat these fruits, we stay away from these animals, and we treat this poison this way, and you get rid of that. So what I'm trying to say here is whatever dynamic that you're in, whether you're the leader, the general, or the soldier, the person who gets the stuff done, is to have a healthy relationship. What we do is we trade roles and responsibilities, but we don't merge them together because that's where it gets really, really messy. Now it might seem like someone who's so strongly opinionated, like myself, that I don't want to follow. And in fact, I really do when I know someone's in charge. And I think we're all like this to a degree. We like to default to, like, just take care of me. You got it? So when I'm in a new town, at a new restaurant, and somebody is local, I just let them order. Don't even ask me. I put my entire faith and my health in your hands. You know, what you're doing. I always find it, like, confusing why somebody who's never been to a town, who's never been to a restaurant, has never eaten this type of food, says, well, I'd like the wonton soup, please. And what they do is they go with the familiar and not what the person who's there would recommend. And it's a weird thing, but I see it happening a lot. If you find yourself in a situation like that, make sure you stop and check in with yourself. Like, what am I doing here? I clearly don't want to lead, but I'm not letting the leader lead. And it's super frustrating. Now, I'm a good soldier, but what I don't like to do is someone to tell me, hey, I want you to follow my directions and then ask me, what would you like to do what? And let me put it in real terms. Okay, this is a relationship thing that I struggle with sometimes. My wife will often ask me, hey, I need you to fix the computer. I'm like, okay, what's the problem? And she'll tell me. I say, okay, let me work through it. But she doesn't leave. She's not there to learn. She's like, you want to try this? I'm like, okay, and what if we click on that? At a certain point I want to kill myself. And the reason being is, if you knew how to fix it, why don't you fix it? If you want me to fix it, let me fix it. Something I learned from a mentor, God rest his soul, Kier McLaren, he would say something like, you can tell me what you want, you can tell me how to do it, but you can't tell me both. And that kind of summarizes like my whole feeling about it. Like, allow me the autonomy to figure it out. Or you lead and I'll just follow what you do. But I don't love this kind of messy middle. That's where we wind up in some situations that makes me feel really uncomfortable. So here's a quick summary for this in case you're lost in the sauce. Here, if you will, is number one, just to respect that within complex dynamics with a family or within a business, everybody plays a really important role. To know what those roles are and then from time to time share the roles. It helps us with empathy, helps us allow one another to grow in our own personal development. And if you can do that, that's really great. And the last thing just for me, I don't know if it works for you, is when you have a clearly defined role, let the person do what it is that you gave them the opportunity to do versus then trying to micromanage every single part of it.

[Rich Cardona]

Thanks for joining us. If you haven't already, subscribe to our show on your favorite podcasting app and get new insightful episodes from us every week. The Future Podcast is hosted by Chris do and produced and edited by Rich Cardona Media. Thank you to Adam Sanborn for our intro music. If you enjoyed this episode, then do us a favor by reviewing and rating our show on Apple Podcasts. It will help us grow the show and make future episodes that much better. If you'd like to support the show and invest in yourself while you're at it, visit thefuture.com and you'll find video courses, digital products, and a bunch of helpful resources about design and the creative business. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you next time.