Chris Do (4:57)

Okay, there's so much here I Want to pick apart and dive into, if you will, like these morsels you're dropping along the way. I've, for a very brief period of my life, worked in advertising. I've always wondered, like, what are the strategists doing? Can you open that box for us and tell us in layman's terms what the heck a strategist does?

Andrea Sampson (5:18)

So what we do as strategists and planners in advertising is we understand, deeply understand the consumer. I mean, the short answer is we're the voice of the consumer inside of the agency. But what that really means is you have to understand consumer behavior. And so we do research. There's a lot of research, and some of that is primary, so qualitative and quantitative research. And then secondary, doing a lot of desk research and then making sense of it, like pulling all of that together and starting to pull out. What can we see? What are the trends? What are the patterns? What are the things that people want? What are the things they don't want? Who are they and why are they doing the things they're doing? It's a lot of thinking. When I fell into that world, it was custom made for me because that's. I love doing that. Like diving deep, going inside, kind of trying to be the investigator slash psychologist. For me, a lot of it was like doing clinical psychology. But instead of having a maze with rats and food, we had advertising with people and offers. And so we were playing with that, you know, and seeing how can we create outcomes, the outcomes we wanted. And so that's basically what a planner does, a strategist. And the outcome of it just to kind of ground that was. So we'd have to take all of these broad, big swatches of data and synthesize it down, come up with usually two, maybe three insights. And an insight would be nothing more than a sentence. And that would be the basis upon which we would build the ad campaign. So we would bring everything down to a sentence that would then get turned into what we call a creative brief. And that creative brief would then be given to our creative teams who would then build the visuals and the copy and all of that. So they would take it from that very minute piece and then actually turn it into something that is accessible by consumers.

Chris Do (7:08)

Are you doing this before the agency wins the business? Is this already the business has been won and now we're going to do the real work? How does this work?

Andrea Sampson (7:15)

A bit of both. When we would do new business like that was like, God, when we would do pitches, we'd get an opportunity to pitch business. We might have a week. And so I'd be out there. Sometimes we were doing what we called streeters would be literally on the street, doing interviews with people on the streets. And then we'd be analyzing that and trying to turn all of that into something in two days so that the creative teams would have a couple of days to do some creative so that we could have something to present to the client. And then we'd have to justify the whole thing to the client of what it was we did to get to that place. Right. Those are crazy, crazy days. It was a lot easier when we already had the client because we could actually ask the time. We truly need it.

Chris Do (7:54)

Okay. A lot is arresting on whether you've pulled apart the correct in the site so that the creative team can do their thing to win the business. But I'm fascinated by this whole thing because the idea of going to talk to people in the street as an introvert scares the bejesus out of me. So let's talk about it. Okay. Can we go there for a little bit?

Andrea Sampson (8:12)

Huge introvert right here. Like huge.

Chris Do (8:16)

Hard to tell with that shocking blue hair and the red lipstick. But okay. Appearances aside, can you take us through any one campaign or client memory that you have in the 20 plus years that you've been working in the advertising space where here was the account and here's where I went into the street. Paint that picture for us. Help us relive that. I even want to know what kind of questions you ask and what crazy things people say.

Andrea Sampson (8:42)

The one that comes to mind right away. I actually wasn't the person on the street, although it was sort of my team who came up with the idea, but we had other people who went out and did it. So it was. God, many years ago, E Trade, which you're probably familiar with, was just coming into Canada. We were launching the product. Well, the product was going to launch in Canada. We were pitching this business. You know, this was in like the heyday of online trading. So this was. This would have been, I want to say the 2000, 2001, right. And so online trading had just come out and there was a lot of people who were like doing day trading right online. And so this idea, because you had all of the like the no low priced or no priced trades. And so there was like, it was a whole. And so the banks had all gotten into it and E Trade was the leader in the US and they hadn't come to Canada yet. And so we were, we were pitching this account and the whole agency got behind it because we were. We weren't just pitching it as a. Because, like, when you're in advertising, there are different aspects. So general, like sort of more brand advertising versus direct marketing versus. In those days, we used to call it interactive marketing, which today would be digital. And I was working for a large multinational agency. And so we brought in all of our subsidiaries. Like, we all got together and we're pitching this big account together. And I was the lead on the client side. So I was leading the pitch with the president of the agency. And so there was. There was him and there was me. And then we had an entire team working with us. And we got this idea. And I'm trying to remember, like, the execution was we did a video literally on the street. We actually created a commercial for E Trade. Now this, again, is in the. Think about it, the early part of the 2000s, we didn't have cell phone video, right? There was no such thing as that. We did camcorder. You weren't able to upload it to. YouTube didn't exist. There was no video sites, like, none of that. And so we went out and we shot this TV commercial. And it was about a guy, a squeegee kid, washing cars. And it was all about trading. And so it was this concept of the squeegee. I can't remember what was the premise? I'm trying to. Like, it was funny. Like, it was this kid and, oh, he's giving stock ticks. That is what it was. Because everyone was getting. Giving stock tips, right? I was like, where do you get your stock tips from? Do you get it from the squeegee kid? Right? So it was this commercial about this guy stopped at a stoplight. The squeegee kid comes out, and he's like, hey, dude, did you hear about. And then it was sort of cut away to, are you getting your stock tips from the squeegee kid or are you going to the source and getting, you know, using. And so it was all about using the platform to be able to do this. This work. And that came from. Because again, that's. What was the insight was that everybody saw trading, online trading as gambling. And what we were trying to do was to shift it from being gambling to being about being responsible, but with an edge. So it's like, don't gamble all your money online. Don't be one of those people who's gambling. Be one of those people who are, yeah, sure, go and try it. But take a little bit of your money and try it and see what it's like. Be responsible with it. So we had found these segments of the market. So at the time there was, the segment was called the, what we call the GRQs, which were the get rich quicks versus the AAs, which was the aggressive affluence. And we were going after the aggressive affluence. And so that's what the, so the ad was aimed at that. Right? Don't be one of these get rich quick people. Be in this other area where you've got your portfolio and it's safe with your broker. That's a good thing. But take a little bit of it and go play, have some fun. So that was the idea. And so we literally found some of that out through Streeters. We actually did some research where we call people. We went like, literally we get in that point. I think we bought lists of traders of people who, who were in the stock market, we called them and we were literally went through a questionnaire to be able to validate some of that. So that's one.

Chris Do (12:53)

Before you move on to the other one, I just want to pause here because some people might know exactly what we're talking about and I think the rest of them are like, wait, wait, wait, what's going on here? So you kind of took us through the anatomy of strategy to creative in reverse. You told us the creative and then you told us the insight and the streeter. This is the part that I need to know a little bit more about. So there are lists of brokers that you talked to and did you talk to actual investors?

Andrea Sampson (13:20)

Yeah, we did, we did, we called investors. The way that that one came about, it actually came about sort of in two ways because we had come up with the idea because we had some desk research and some, I think there may have even been some syndicated research so you can buy research reports. And so we had bought some research reports that had given us the segmentation of the market. So we knew segmentations. We had done that work and we had targeted and we had an idea, but then we had to validate the idea. So what we did was we actually ran it in tandem because we didn't have time again running against a clock. So we had this idea that we should be using this message of don't gamble, actually work with the people who really know. So it was sort of this underpinning. And again, insights are often boring. It's creative that actually brings them to life. Right. And that's the thing, it was like I always did the most boring part of the job. But it was, without that, you would never have creative. But we were kind of the unsung heroes. I would say.

Chris Do (14:18)

No, I get it. I totally get it. When I was young, I did not understand it, but as I got older. Yeah, yeah.

Andrea Sampson (14:25)

So we had the idea and we filmed that commercial, and then we went and validated it using again, we did phone calls. I don't think we sent people, because in those days, you couldn't show them the video because there was no way to do that. You literally would have had to bring them into a room and film it. We didn't have the time to do that. But what we did, I think we read them the script, if I recall. You know, that gave us the validation. But I do to this day, I still remember when we presented that. So we're in the room with the client presenting this, and our president was actually, at this point, he was. It was his part of the presentation. And he. Cause, you know, again, he's the president of the agency. He's going to take sort of the big moment and he's presenting to the client, and he says, you know, look, you know, I've got an amazing creative team, and they will do things that are just really gonna knock you out. But he said, you know, this one almost. Almost took me down. He said, we've been working on this, and, you know, this is an important opportunity for us, and we absolutely want your business. And so as my team has been working on this, I had given them grace. Just go do whatever it takes to get it done. So we're getting ready. It was a couple of days ago, and we're all getting together, and the creative team came in and they said, we've got a surprise for you. And he said, what is it? And he goes. And they literally show me a completely finished spot. And he said, I almost had a heart attack, because spots, when you're doing a finished spot, it can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. And he said to the client, he said, you know, I had said do anything, but I didn't mean, like, go out and, you know, like, spend next year's entire revenue budget. And so I said to them, how much did it cost? And they said, 179. I was done. Like, I thought, oh, my God, $179,000. Where the hell are we coming up with that? And the creative team said, no, $1.79 is what it cost us for the squeegee. And I remember, again, this is. Gotta remember, this was all in the days before we had access to all of this stuff. I mean, you know, to do any sort of video meant bringing in people who have expertise. And you know, video editing, there weren't editing suites. I remember we had an avid in the agency and so we had an. But you still needed to have somebody who understood how to use it. And it was a fun one because it was fun to be able to do that. And it was the early days. I mean, E Trade was one of those brands that was right on the bleeding edge of the Internet as it was sort of evolving. And so we got to, we did win that account and we got to do some really fun things with them because they were moving so fast. So it made us move fast.

Chris Do (17:04)

Yes, I can see your brain is moving really fast too. And as a non fast moving brain, I just need you to finish that story. The completionist in me, okay, so he's surprised by the team's ability to make something for very little money. And usually the way I remember the way the world, the advertising world works is the setup is really important. Framing the creative is everything. Because without that then you see a video like, what the hell am I looking at? Why is this solving any of our problems? So where does he take the conversation such that the clients or the prospects or the E Trade people are like, yeah, show us the video and then you land it. We know how the video works. Take us through that part.

Andrea Sampson (17:45)

So he set it up by, you know, giving this sort of like 179 and the whole bit. And then he shows the video. And what happened for the client in that moment was, I mean, first of all, the setup was fun because it was just sort of, you know, him really, what he was really highlighting to the client was the flexibility and the, the agility of this team to be able to solve problems, to come up with a good idea and then actually do it. And so when he showed the video and the video, you know, like was it high quality? And like, no, it was good enough. It did the job right. But the client of course got it. What happened for the client in that moment was they saw not only the creative that was created, but what it took from a team perspective. Everything from the underpinning of that idea all the way through to the execution of a video done in less than a week and put up in a new business pitch and the agency president standing up and standing behind it and giving this sort of funny and self depreciating story in such a way that everybody was behind it and you know, it's powerful. It's really powerful.

Chris Do (18:58)

Okay, I understand something here. I want to say it to you to see if I got this part right, because I've been in some of those pitch meetings, but only like one, I think, not seeing them for 20 years. So is it. Am I understanding this correctly? In a new business pitch, there are finite constraints to what you can do. So it isn't necessarily about coming up with the best creative because you had a week to do it, but showing them that you want the business. It's important to you, and the creative team are willing to move heaven and earth for you. And here's just an example of how it would be like to work with us knowing very well. If you award us the account, we gotta do the real work. Is that about right?

Andrea Sampson (19:39)

Yeah. A new business pitch is the combination of, can we do creative? Can we think, how passionate are we? How much do we want this piece of business and what are we willing to do for it? It's all of those things. And every client is gonna have a different criteria in terms of the mix of those things, but they're all there. When I think about different pitches that we've done and that I've heard of and had friends who did, the things you would do for a pitch were crazy. I remember at one point, it wasn't a pitch I was a part of, but one of my friends was pitching one of the major banks here in Canada, and their logo had a lion on it. And the story was they brought a lion to the pitch. That's the kind of thing like, I'm sure they had a story. I'm sure there was something that went along with it. But that was the, you know, sort of this idea of, you want the business, you do the work.

Chris Do (20:35)

That stuff kind of like advertising lore. The extent in which people are willing to go to say, we want your business. Most of the creative people who listen to this episode are going to sit there and scratch it. Like, why would you spend that much money? Because the accounts were that big? Is that important? We're talking about tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue for the agency. So it's worth it to make that.

Andrea Sampson (20:54)

Effort just to add to that. Because it's not just that account, it's what that account brings. So let's say E Trade as an example. Well, suddenly that was an indicator to the market that the agency that I was working with had the ability to attract a high profile client like that. So then you get more high profile clients, clients so it's both the money that it represents, that particular account. But sometimes actually you do it at a loss. You take clients at a loss because of what they bring. I worked for another client who had BMW as a client for many, many years. And honestly, if they broke even every year, they were happy.

Chris Do (21:31)

This is like loss leader or something like that. It's the jewel and the crown that if you bring the big brand to your agency, then the other brands, they would chase after you at that point, right?

Andrea Sampson (21:42)

That's right.

Chris Do (21:43)

Okay, beautiful. Now, you said a couple things I just want to quickly highlight here. For a creative pitch like this, I think you listed five things, but I couldn't write that fast. I think with something, are you creative enough? Can you do it? Do you want it? And is this important to you? Was there something else in there?

Andrea Sampson (21:58)

So let me just think about it for a second. So, you know, how badly do you want this account? What is your creative? Like, can you think? Do you have the ability to execute? Who's on that team? Like, that's a big one too. You know, so many agencies used to be accused of the bait and switch. You put your A team in front of the. In front of the team and then, you know, when you got the account, it was, you know, some people that they hired the day before, you know, like. And that, you know, they're notorious for those sorts of things.

Chris Do (22:28)

They staff up once you win the account. And so the people who pitch it aren't there anymore.

Andrea Sampson (22:32)

Yeah, you never see the pitch team again. Right.

Chris Do (22:34)

Okay, that's wonderful. Thanks for sharing that. So the insight that the desk research and the syndicated research produced was that there's this idea that people want to be responsible with their trade, but they're a little edgy about it. They're affluently aggressive. And that was the insight.

Andrea Sampson (22:53)

The aggressive. So it was the segmentation. Right. So we had the get rich quick segment. We had the aggressive affluent. And the insight behind the aggressive affluent was that they were, I mean, affluent people, they were investors. They usually had their own brokers. But what the insight was is that they actually secretly desired to be like the get rich quick guy, but they weren't willing to risk. Like, the get rich quick guy was usually a day trader, so he didn't have a lot of money and he was doing like penny stocks. Right. But the aggressive affluent thought of himself as pretty smart. In fact, smarter than the day trader, wanted to do the day trading without the risk of the day trading. So the insight was take a little bit of your Portfolio, keep the bulk of it. Use your broker. And the idea was, beat your broker because you've got the insight from E Trade in this case. Right? Because E Trade would give them sort of trading tips and things like that. And you've got the ability to do your own, and you've got access to the platform at your fingertips, which had never been. It had never existed before. Right. You would always have to go through a broker. Suddenly you no longer have that middleman between you and the platform. And so what can you do with it? So the insight was show how smart you really are and put your money where your mouth is.

Chris Do (24:15)

That makes the video make a lot more sense, too, because the car and, like, they see themselves as better than the trader who's getting advice from the kid who's washing your windows. But they kind of secretly wanted to be part of that world. Makes perfect sense.

Andrea Sampson (24:29)

They did. That was it. And, sorry, it took me a couple minutes to remember. That was a lot of years ago. I'm like, I gotta go back in my memory banks and remember this stuff. But honestly, that was one of the funnest accounts I ever worked on. We had a blast.

Chris Do (24:41)

Okay, in case you're just joining us, I'm talking to Andrea Sampson and we're going to get into storytelling. And if you're listening to this on the podcast, I just want to just tell you to go check out the show notes, because you have to see Andrea, her blue hair, her lipstick and the whole thing. It's a whole vibe, everybody. And if you're watching this on YouTube, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Okay, now, there are other things I want to talk to you about. This wasn't meant to be a whole strategy, advertising thing, but you open that door for me in my mind, and I'm like, really into that. Okay, you're 50 years old. One could say midlife, you're having maybe a midlife crisis. I don't know. Is it like you're blowing out the candles on your birthday cake and say, what the heck am I doing with my life? Is this all I was meant to do? Sell things to people who don't want to buy things? And was there something that happened that crystallized that moment for you?

Andrea Sampson (25:31)

You know, I think it was a bunch of things. My daughter had gone off to university that year. I kind of had this awareness. I'm like, I'm living in the suburbs, in Toronto. My daughter had gone off to university, and I'm thinking, what am I doing with my life? Is this It. So it was over time, and I was turning 50. And I'm like, if not now, when? It never felt like a crisis. It felt like an awakening. It was more of that, like looking up and looking out for the first time in probably 20 years and saying, life is meant to be lived, not just existed through. And I started going, well, if that's true, then what's living to me? What does that mean? And, you know, that. That just kind of spurred me into a whole. You know, I told this story many years later about. I think it was 2015. So, like, that started. That would have been like, 20, probably 2012. 2013. Yeah. So 2012, 2013 was when I started sort of having the awareness. 2015 was when it really crystallized. So I gave a talk many years later, but it was 2015. Every year I choose a word for my year. And that particular year. So as I was coming into this awareness, I was turning 50. And I remember I wrote the word vibrant. I want to live a vibrant life. And when I told the story many years later, I was like, you know, be careful what you ask for. Because it was such a big year, 2015, for me of like, you know, making this decision. I sold my house. I bought a condo down. I destroyed my condo. Cause I decided to completely gut Reno it. I traveled through Europe. I quit advertising. That was the year that I actually fully decided to walk away. I was. In 2015, I was the director of programming for TedX Toronto. And so I kind of. I blew up my life. It was like the best thing I ever did, but it was all in service of a vibrant life.

Chris Do (27:36)

Is that when the hair changed or the hair was already vibrant at that point?

Andrea Sampson (27:39)

I have had my hair in various colors for almost 20 years. It's gotten brighter and maybe more colorful, but I remember this. Another story I tell often is one of my last years in advertising. I had started off with just like doing little pokes of color. And then it got more and more. And my hair used to be very, very short and spiky and kind of doing all kinds of fun things. And I had finally gotten it the perfect shade of cotton candy pink. And I remember walking into the agency just after I'd gotten it done. This particular agency was a little more conservative than most. Anyway, I walk in and the HR director said, hey, can I talk to you? And she was like, oh, we have to do something about your hair. And I remember at the time, like, that was actually the beginning of the end for me in the agency world. Cause I looked at her. And I went, you don't get it, do you? Like, if we're showing up, I'm the head of strategy, I was the senior vice president of strategy in this agency working with many, many multinational companies. And I would be in front of the room and often clients would comment on my hair and never that they didn't like it. I would get pulled aside often by the CEO or the VP of whatever and it was often a man and, and he would always say, I love your hair, I just wanna tell you. And it would just be that, you know. And what I said to my HR director at that point is I said, you know, I get it that I'm probably a little more out there than you would like. And I understand that. But here's the thing. Our clients hire us cause we look different from them. And when we look different, we think different. And if I'm showing up in the three piece suit looking exactly like them, why do they need us? And I, at the time I was like, I can't believe I have to say this, but I do. And that was when I knew that was the end of my, you know, again, like there were many other things, but that was just such a big telltale of like. And you know, I think this is one of the biggest challenges in advertising is that advertising has changed so much over the years that it has had to become more conservative just to maintain its foothold in the marketplace. When I started in advertising, you know, we were still doing the long lunches and the, you know, like big budgets and all of that. And it was like we were different. We were the people that our clients wanted to be, you know, but they couldn't cause their jobs were different. And so we got to be the fun people. And I don't know that that's the case anymore in advertising.

Chris Do (30:11)

That's too bad. Things have changed a lot and advertising has changed actually. So I think the dress code is just one of the many problems.

Andrea Sampson (30:19)

Well, that's the thing. It's just one of the symptoms of a much bigger problem. And shift.

C (30:25)

It's time for a quick break, but we'll be right back.

Chris Do (30:37)

When I started my motion design company blind in 95, there was a lot I didn't know. So I tried reaching out to other business owners and professionals for help. What did I find? Many saw me as competition. And those who didn't weren't able to give advice that made sense for my line of work. Thankfully, I was able to find my first and only business coach, Kieran McLaren. Who mentored me for 13 years. I also learned that my story isn't unique. Many entrepreneurs feel like they're left to figure everything out on their own. It's why I created the Future Pro Membership, a community I wish I had when I first started. And I'd like to invite you to check out all that we have waiting for you inside@thefuture.com pro.

Andrea Sampson (31:18)

And we're back.

C (31:19)

Welcome back to our conversation.

Chris Do (31:22)

So it sounds like you kind of went on this soul search and you blew up your life. Your daughter went off to school, you're single, you move from the suburbs to the city, you travel the world, and you have a major career shift and change. And through the World Domination Conference, of course, that has to be fun. You meet some of the TEDx organizers, and then you get this, this opportunity to work with TEDx. What was it in those early days, TEDx, that captured your attention? And could you share a story about one of your first experiences coaching speakers?

Andrea Sampson (31:54)

Yeah, I mean, that first year as a speakers coach was such an eye opener for me. I mean, I had never heard of a speaker's coach. And I was volunteered. Right. It was a tough interview process. I think I interviewed with three or four different people inside of the TEDx Toronto organization and then got Volun hired. And what I didn't realize, I was a speaker's coach, but I was also part of the programming team. And I remember going to the very first committee meeting. So I get told I'm in, and here we're meeting on whatever date. And so I go to this meeting and I'm with. I think there were maybe six or seven of us on this particular committee, which was the programming team, the curation team. And I suddenly learned that, oh, I'm not just coaching speakers. I have to find the. Oh, my God. I had no idea. I'm like, where do you find TED speakers? I was totally green to this whole idea and learned a lot. But once I got assigned, we went through. It was a process and a hard one. But once we whittled it down to the. I think we had maybe 12 or 13 speakers on the stage that year. And so I got assigned four of them. And I got. I mean, I had some input into it. Like, we kind of all fought over who we wanted, and there were four speakers, coaches. And so we all took the people that we wanted or fought for the ones we wanted. And so I ended up. I just, I've always loved scientists and academics, and I was like, every time a scientist came out, I Put my hand up. I'll take that one. And no one else wanted them. So I remember one of my very first speakers was. He was a professor at University of Toronto. He had two PhDs, one in engineering and one in medicine. And he was working on the Human Genome Project, which was the worldwide project, Decode the Genome. And I remember my very first meeting with him. I was still working in the agency at the time, and so I had organized it for him to come to the agency after hours. And so I'm sitting in the boardroom, and, you know, it's like any advertising agency. It's cool. It looks pretty good, you know? So he walks in, and, I mean, like, honestly, like, you couldn't have scripted it better. He walked in. He had, like, this. This head of curly hair. He's dressed in a sweater vest, a pair of shorts, socks, and sandals. He was the quintessential academic. You know, he was as nerdy as they came. And we sit down at the table, and he's just this lovely, lovely man. And he's, you know, probably in his mid-40s. And I'm going through, like, all of the things that we're gonna do. I'm kind of giving him the overview of what's gonna happen. And, you know, anyone who comes in to do a TED Talk, they don't really know what to expect. And so I'm giving him just some of the background, and then I'm also, like, taking him through some things. And he opens his notebook, right, to take some notes, because in those days, of course, we still had pencil and. Or pen and paper. And I glance over at his notebook, and I realize everything in it is math. Everything I'm thinking to myself, I don't know if I can talk to this person. I do not speak math. And so it was an interesting process of learning how to communicate with somebody who is so incredibly smart, but also finding. And I think that was one of the things that I've come to understand about me and my style is, for me, it's about the person first. And so it's always about the relationship and who are they? And so I got to know him on a personal level first. And why that's important when you're a storyteller is your stories are yours. They're about you. They're what describe the essence of who you are, and especially when you're doing a TED Talk. And with him, I got to know a lot about his personal life and about some tragedies that had happened and things that really mattered to him. And we ended up using a lot of that in his TED talk. And he ended up doing a six minute TED talk on explaining the human genome. To do that in six minutes is incredible. And it was such a powerful lesson for me in terms of understanding the power of story. Because we used his story and his story of losing a child and about why that sort of catapulted him into the world of genomics and wanting to create a solution so that no parent would ever have to go through that. Cause his child died because of a genetic disorder. And so that was. It's powerful when you hear people's why of why they do the things they do. And those stories resonate in a way that really no other story can. Right. Because it is the human condition we're talking about.

Chris Do (36:42)

I'm the absentminded professor. Clearly I'm very smart. I've got the two PhDs. I walk into this office, I'm like, oh, is it a little different? It's very creative. There's fun furniture, colors, artwork around. And I sit down with you. What are some of the questions you might ask me so that I can start to unearth these stories? Because I'm just thinking, human genome got a problem solved. I'm doing my thing. I don't speak human. What are the things that you're doing? Can you take us through? Let's role play a little bit. Right?

Andrea Sampson (37:10)

What is that process like?

Chris Do (37:11)

Yeah, just pretend like I'm that person and talk to me.

Andrea Sampson (37:14)

Yeah, yeah. So always the first thing I ask is, tell me about you. Like just what is it you like? And usually that's a hard question for people, especially somebody who's really steeped in science or technology. Even. So I'll usually have to give some prompts, things like, well, what do you like to do? And it'll usually start with their work. And then we'll sort of chip away at that and then I'll say, is there, you know, what are your hobbies? What hobbies do you have? I'm just kind of trying to find end points of like, what is it that makes you you? And then I'll usually sort of shift it because what happens is they're not knowing where it's going and they're feeling uncomfortable. And I can usually sense the moment at which they get to that point of discomfort where if we don't switch, I'm going to lose them. And so what I'll do is I'll switch it into, well, tell me what you want to talk about. And that they'll light up at. And then they'll usually talk for about 20 minutes, which none of it is understandable, but it'll be what they want to talk about. And I mean, I've been doing this long enough that I usually do follow them, but no one else would because it's usually a lot of jargon. It usually has a lot of really deep science in it. And interspersed with that, there will be some of the indicators of why it's important. And I'll usually ask them a couple of questions. And so what happens is, as we're going through that, what do you want to talk about? They're starting to leave little, what I like to call breadcrumbs for me, because those are the things that I go back to. They'll have a half finished sentence or story and I'll go back to it and tell me more about that and tell me more about that. What happens is over the course of an hour or an hour and a half, I'll usually get enough of their story that I then tell it back to them and I tell it back to them as if I am them. So here's what I've heard. I'm going to pretend that I'm you and I'm probably not going to get it. All right, I'll make some things up. But I want you to hear your story as I've heard it, just to make sure I'm clear on it. And so when I do that, it's usually a huge revelation and a relief for them. A relief because for the first time somebody understood them. And a revelation because they've never heard their own story told back to them. Like, how often do we hear our own story? We never do. And because I've done this enough, I know where to put emphasis. I know where to bring emotion in. I know how to tell it in such a way that it touches them. And our human brains are so interesting because even though we're hearing our own stories, we feel like we're hearing somebody else's. We lean into it and we were like, oh my God, what's going to happen next? And I've had many, many of my clients say that to me, like, oh my God, I was riveted. And it's like, yeah, that's your story, though. That's the thing. That's what's so cool about it. That's why I want you to hear your story, because it is riveting.

Chris Do (40:19)

You know, I do this for my friends too. They tell me their story and it's like dragging. And they put too much detail where none is required. They skip over all the conflict, emotional turmoil. And then I'm like, okay, so here's your story the way I heard it. And you say back to them, and it's a wonderful thing that you're doing for them, whether you're a coach or not. Just a human being connecting with another to be able to see themselves from another point of view. One could describe that as a form of meditation, but you're. You're doing it with another person, so it's a really cool thing. Do you get, like, big emotional reactions from them when they hear it? Do they cry? Do they hug you? Do they tremble?

Andrea Sampson (40:55)

Yes, all of those things.

Chris Do (40:57)

All of them.

Andrea Sampson (40:57)

I remember I was working with a client. I was in Sao Paulo, and this one gentleman. So I did a ton of work with Singularity University out of Silicon Valley. And so I traveled all over, training all of their faculty. And so this particular cohort was in Sao Paulo. And so this guy, amazing man, he was a businessman. I'm trying to remember what the tech was that he. Because it was all exponential tech that we were working in, right? And so I can't remember. I know what his business was, but I don't remember what the. Maybe it was blockchain. That's what it was. So he was in blockchain. He had built a business on a blockchain platform, but the business was basically bike shares. And he actually brought that into the U.S. he brought that. Like he was one of the founders of that whole idea of bike sharing. And so he was bringing it into Sao Paulo. And. And so he tells me his story. Like, I was like, where did this come from? Right? Where did this idea come from? Regardless of the technology, just this concept of bike sharing. And he told me this beautiful story about him as a child, basically was homeless, and his mom, you know, they lived on the streets in Sao Paulo. Cause that's where he was from. And sort of told this story about his mom taking care of him. And eventually they got off the streets. And he always wanted to do something to honor his mom. And so this bike share was a combination of. Of coming out of such humble beginnings, but also as something that I think his mom. I think there was something she'd always wanted a bike. I can't remember the whole story, but he tells me this story. And of course, he's telling it to me in such a way of like. And then there was this, and then there was that, and there was no real connectors. Between it, it's just like a bunch of disconnected facts. And he finishes it saying to me, well, and no one would ever want to hear that story. And I'm listening to him going, you gotta be kidding me. Like, this is like. It is gold, right? So I tell him his story back. And again, this is like a big guy, about as, you know, busy. He's in a suit, he's like completely masked, right? Like he's in the business world. That's, you know, just the facts, ma'am. And I tell him his story. And when I finish, he is sobbing. And he looks at me and he said, I can't believe that's my story. I would never have thought to tell it, nor would I have thought that it was so powerful. And that's your story? I just, I mean, yes. Am I a good storyteller? Sure. I've got some training. I know how to do this. But that's your story. That's not. All I did was put it together in a certain way. You lived it, and you could tell it way better than me because you lived it, you know, and you've got the emotions that go with it and you've got details that are real. And he went on to tell that story, but it changed his life. I actually still get emails from him saying how impactful that was. It changed the way he looked at everything in his life, because up until that point, everything in his life had just been a data point.

Chris Do (43:48)

When you say you listen to somebody's story, you find the part that needs to be emphasized. What are those parts that you're listening for? So if we're trying to help our friend or we're trying to help ourselves, what is it that you're seeing? What are those patterns that you noticed, like where we need to zoom in and pull that part out?

Andrea Sampson (44:06)

So in order to tell a good story, what you need to know is what are you holding inside of the story? Because stories are context. And so, I mean, we can tell stories for the sake of telling stories. And those are great. If we're sitting around a campfire, if we're just like with friends telling funny stories, that's one thing. But if you're using stories, stories to actually convey information and using your own personal story, what you need is to know what lives inside of it. What's the idea that you've put inside of that? And that's what any good TED talk is. It's an idea that's wrapped in story. I call it idea centric storytelling. So when I'M listening to somebody's story. What I'm doing is I'm listening for the piece. So every idea has got some mechanism. Like, is it a transformative idea? Is it a sustainable idea? Like, what is the mechanism inside of that idea? Now what you're doing is you're looking for a story that could actually mimic that. Think of it as a metaphor for that idea. And so when I'm listening, I'm listening for those points where you've got that mechanism and you're listening in such a way that you want an emotional. Emotional connection. So in the example that I gave with that gentleman in Sao Paulo, I think his mother had died of cancer, but there was some points along the way, his mom's interaction, them being homeless and things like that. And so I was able to pull some of these emotional pieces that are. They're meta, right? Like, we all have mothers. Now, we may not all have close relationships with our mothers, but we all have mothers. We've all experienced in some way some form of medical tragedy. Whether somebody we know has died or whether we've heard of it. We know these things that are truly. They're transcendent across time and space. And so when you listen for these things that are absolutely universal, but then you put them together in such a way that they are so singularly for that person, suddenly you've built a powerful story that speaks directly to the emotions, but then conveys this idea in such a way that the idea becomes a revelation to the story. And so you've combined emotion, predictability. So, like, the associations, the predictability, and then the openness of the idea. Because what we're really doing is we're playing with brain science, right? Cause stories, there's a lot of brain science behind stories. And so the. The predictive nature of our brain, the associative nature of our brain, and then the memorability, those are the pieces you're playing with. So when I'm listening to a story, I'm listening for all of those things. So I can pull them in and I can actually use the techniques that light up the brain. So we remember them, so we emotionally connect with them so that we are able to remember that idea associated to that story and be engaged with the story all the way along.

Chris Do (47:09)

Wow, okay. That was super brainy what you just said. So I'm trying to think of my audience and myself. Let's make it a little simpler, if we can. So in the story of this gentleman that you were talking about, what was his idea? What was the story that contained that idea.

Andrea Sampson (47:27)

Like again, he was working on a blockchain based technology and the. His idea was to create something that was safe, right? It was about safety, like blockchain, because of the discrete nature of blockchain so it can't be hacked and things like that. And so he was using bike sharing on blockchain, which allowed for, especially in a city like Sao Paulo where there's not as cause there's a lot of crime there. So things like using a credit card with a blockchain enabled bike was safer than if you were using it on a regular sort of credit card processing system. So safety was really the mechanism, right? It was safety, security and privacy was sort of the basis of his message. This story about him living on the street with his mom having nothing. You can imagine that you had nothing. There was no safety, no safety, no privacy. And so using that, having this backdrop of being afraid all the time, of watching your friends being killed, literally of being afraid for not only your life, but your mother's life and having to grow up very young to do that and now transition that to creating a company that is now taking care of people, giving them access to transportation that they didn't have, but giving them access to that in, in such a way that creates safety and security for them. And so there's the, you know, the connection points. And what we're doing is we're building the emotional overlay with a son's connection to his mother.

Chris Do (49:06)

So what I heard you say was there was something about the lack of security, physical security, financial security, and his relationship with his mom that was the vehicle to deliver the story in which. Why he thinks it's really important for them to develop technologies to make purchasing or renting bicycles really safe. Something like that.

Andrea Sampson (49:26)

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it. And so, you know, like every time I'm working with a client, those are the types of things we're looking for. What's the mechanism? What's the story? How do we align the mechanism and the story? How do we say that idea in such a way that connects with people? How do we create that why of your idea so that your audience is along with you? And now let's build the story to the why and the what and the how, which is the mechanics of the idea that comes along with it.

Chris Do (49:56)

You talk about the three pillars of personal branding, awareness, authority and differentiation. Could you share a story of someone who struggled with one of these areas and how they overcame it?

Andrea Sampson (50:07)

I mean, I think the biggest one is differentiation and Like, I'll use myself. I've been building my own personal brand for the past couple of years and authority and differentiation are really difficult things. Awareness is probably the easiest. And I know that that sounds crazy because it's like, oh my God, you know, there's, it's a big world. But the reality is we can create broad awareness. Pretty like we live in a world of social media, my goodness. Like we can, we can get awareness easily. But it's like, well, what makes you different and what gives you those, you know, the authority to say or claim what you're claiming? And I know for me, you know, I think the thing that we struggle with the most, and I would say this goes across to every client I've ever worked with, is our own mind, our own perception. So authority and differentiation, it's the thing we attack ourself on. So who am I to say that I'm not different than anyone else? And so I had to overcome that with my own personal brand of really stepping out. I said this earlier, I'm an incredible introvert. Center stage has never been the place that I've ever wanted to be. And it took me a long time working with thought leaders and people saying to me, you need to be on stage, you need to be saying this out there. And I was like, who am I? I dropped out of high school in grade 10. I don't have education, I've done very well. And have I self educated? Sure I have, but I don't have that credentials. I don't have the paper on my wall that says I get to say these things. And I had to overcome that. And then I was like, there's a million people out there doing storytelling. Let's face it, I am not the only person talking about storytelling. So what am I saying that's different? And so those two things are the things that for me, I had to really do my own sort of inward journey of like, what is it I'm saying different? And I think the thing that I really came to is this deep understanding that it doesn't matter who has said that, you've got the authority to do it, you claim it. So that's number one. But equally as important is that it's actually your life and the context of your life that makes you different. And so it doesn't matter what education you have or whether a million other people are saying the exact same thing as you are, the way you say it, because of who you are, because of the challenges you've had, because of the culture you've come from because of the awareness that you've gained, you say it differently, and because of that, somebody else understands it in a way they never could have. And I had to really lean into that and believe it. And it took me a long time of really, like, listening to myself, because it's funny, you're on these journeys, and I often say we teach what we most need to learn. And so I'm saying these things out loud, and in doing that, I'm actually saying it to myself, and it helped me to believe it. And so, you know, it's been an interesting journey.

Chris Do (53:14)

I love that. So that was a big mindset shift, and I think that's going to resonate with a lot of people listening to this. But I want to get back to the whole. In a sea of a million storytelling coaches, how are you different?

Andrea Sampson (53:28)

Yeah. So I think my biggest difference is that I believe deeply that we are all different. I believe that it's our differences that make us strong, not our sameness. And in that, when we tell our story, let's find the peace that people resonate with. So it feels like we're the same, but the experience is so different that it feels different from everything they've ever imagined. And so it's that place of familiarity in the place of extreme difference, and that gives us the ability to see ourselves outside of our own comfort zone. So when I'm hearing my story told through your lens, because that's what happens, right? You tell your story, I populate your story with me. That's what my brain does. That's all of us. That's just the way our brain works, is we go like, oh, yeah, I remember a time when I did that. And suddenly in your brain, it's. You're popping up. But now it's like they're telling this story of this crazy thing that happened. You've got some memories that work with that, but I'm now in your story, and I'm going along for that ride, and that changes me. That's what's powerful. I really help people to have the courage, I think, to tell those stories. Like, I remember working with a woman who had lived in South Africa for a number of years as a child. Like, she was Canadian, but her family. Her father was an ambassador, and he had gone to South Africa, and she witnessed one of her maids being shot by her husband. And it was a crazy story. I mean, she was a child. She was maybe 8 or 9. And she saw this, like, horrific event, and we ended up using that story. As an opening of one, she was in PR and she opened a conference with her talking about what she does. But she used that story. And it was all about ethics, right? Because as horrific as that was, the idea that was inside of that was the fact that in South Africa it was illegal for this woman to have her husband living in the same house as she was because she lived with a white family. And this was during apartheid, Right. He was black, so there was no problem with them being together. But it was that she was living within a white family and he didn't have a job and it was illegal. And the family had said it was okay for him to live there. But then they got in trouble and they asked her if he could live. I think it was like they had found another house for him. But he took offense and he shot her. Shot his wife. And the story though was that it was actually her parents fault. They didn't understand the cultural context they had put her in this situation, that they didn't fully understand the ramifications of it because when she asked him to leave, she'd shamed him. But they didn't understand that cultural context. Did it justify the end? Of course not. Like that's not what the story was about. It was about understanding that we can't look at different cultures and think we understand what's really going on inside of them. We don't have a right from our Western world to judge some of these other cultures and what's happening. So, you know, those types of stories are powerful. Like I've never had that experience, but I have had the experience of being completely wrong in what I thought.

Chris Do (57:06)

Just to clarify, you said it wasn't her fault, it was her parents fault. Did you mean her parents or the people that she lived with and worked for?

Andrea Sampson (57:13)

The woman who I was working with was the white family, so it was her.

Chris Do (57:17)

Oh, I see. I see what you're saying. You're saying the white girl's parents fault, not the black woman's parents fault. Perfect. Okay. And you said something earlier on. I just want to clarify. When we tell stories, the person listening to the story puts themselves inside of your story and they live it with you. If you're a good storyteller. That's what you said, right?

Andrea Sampson (57:38)

Yeah, yeah, perfect. That's actual brain science. That's some of the stuff that they've learned as they look inside our brain.

Chris Do (57:45)

So then the personal braining bit about differentiation is very important, about leaning into the things that make us different when we are in a society that Wants to make us all the same. It's problematic, and so that's why it's such an unusual concept. And this is my take on something that a friend of mine says or writes about. His name is James Victori. He says, what makes you weird as a kid? And I alter it a little bit, will make you wonderful as an adult. We need to lean into that weirdness. And clearly, you and I, I believe, are embracing it together. Separately, but together. You know what I mean?

Andrea Sampson (58:18)

I couldn't agree more. I mean, for me, as I lean into my weirdness, you know, And I often say, you know, let your freak fly, right? Like, to me, that is what makes us interesting. I found out I was neurodiverse when I was 56. And at the time, I was like, what is that gonna do in my life? I've lived this many years not knowing. What difference is it gonna make? Well, it's made a massive difference in my life. And why? Because I actually now no longer try to stop doing the things. Like, I now understand what masking is. And so all these things, as your friend said, that made you weird as a kid, right? Well, when you're an adult, you mask those. And when you're neurodiverse, there's a lot riding on masking, right? Because it's just not okay to be the person. Or at least it wasn't when I was growing up. And now, as I unmask and I find who I am, I turn 60 next year, and I'm now sort of in this place of, like, I am such a different person today, and I'm much more closer to who I was as a child now, because I'm okay with the fact that I don't always get social interactions. Jokes kind of go over my head a lot, and I don't have to pretend anymore. And those are. I mean, those are small things, but there's so many more.

Chris Do (59:37)

Ooh. I came across this feed on my Instagram today, and how wonderful and serendipitous it is that I see this today of all days. And it's a. It's a quote from Carl Jung. To be normal is the ultimate aim of the unsuccessful.

Andrea Sampson (59:55)

I love that.

Chris Do (59:56)

I was like, why have I not seen this quote before?

Andrea Sampson (59:59)

Oh, my God. I was gonna say, like, I. I've read a lot of young Youngian psychology. I've never seen that. I love that.

Chris Do (60:06)

Right. I hope he did say this, because it's like, it's so brilliant. It's so brilliant. Okay, we're gonna land the Plane. I'm going to segue to the end question here. And since you're a storytelling coach and expert, what's the story you wish more people would tell about themselves or their work?

Andrea Sampson (60:22)

I think the story I wish people would tell about themselves is why they do what they do. I think we get so far removed from our own why that we have no connection to it. I remember the very first time I watched the very famous Simon Sinek start with why, right? And at the time, everyone was like, oh, what's your why? What's your why? And, you know, everyone was like, I don't know, how do you find your why? And it was like this big quest. It's not that big a thing. You know what? In reality, what is it that brings you joy? Like, we're not talking about, like, oh, my God, if you get it wrong, your whole life is over. You're never going to get your why wrong, because it's actually why you do what you do every day. You show up to work, you parent your kids, you love your husband or wife. These are the whys they're underpinning. All of that is a why. And that why is the thing that will drive you forward. And so when we reconnect to it, and the way you reconnect to it is just by doing the things you love and going. That's what it is. You know, for me, like, I've always been a person living a little bit in the future. I've always been so incredibly curious about what's coming next. As a child, it was always like, I wonder what it's going to be like when I'm 10, when I'm 20, when I'm 50? I remember doing the math to go, how. How old would I be at the turn of the century, you know, the year 2000 and imagining that. And if I look back, that was me in my why. Because what my why is all about is about creating a resilient future, a future that is reflective of everybody who lives within it. And that's why I do what I do every day. And I believe that. I deeply believe in that. And so what is it for you? That's mine, but what is it for you?

Chris Do (62:25)

Do you know what. What a channeler is? Are you in Sudowu?

Andrea Sampson (62:28)

I do, of course I do. Of course.

Chris Do (62:33)

I. I just had to ask for formality reasons, you know? Okay. Are you familiar with a channeler by the name of Bashar?

Andrea Sampson (62:40)

Of course I am. Yes.

Chris Do (62:42)

Okay, two for two. I'm gonna go from the gold all right, now, I'm not a woo person myself. I get secondhand woo from my wife. Okay, so I'm just putting that out there. Everybody. I've never inhaled, but it's, it's around me. So it's, it's, it's here. So Bashar, when he was ever asked this question, he goes into this monologue and it's quite beautiful. There's some crazy things that are said, but this one is really beautiful, I believe. So there's, of course, you know, the. This person, his name is Bashar. And whenever he's asked this question about, like, like, what's the meaning of life? Or what's the plan? He says it matter of factly. What does he say about this?

Andrea Sampson (63:18)

He says, you know what? Like, each one of us is here to live to our highest potential, to step into all of who we are in the fullest expression of who we are and to do so from a place of joy. To let go of all of the expectations that we put on ourselves of being perfect or being right or, you know, getting it right. It's not about any of those things. We can't ever get it wrong. We can't. It's just our job to be the humans we are in the expression that we have in the moment that we're in, in the highest ability that we have in that moment.

Chris Do (64:00)

And that's how we end this conversation. Because the things you're talking about, storytelling, personal branding, and if we're talking about a message from a future intelligent being and talking, talking to us about the human plan, it sounds kind of the same. I was on stage recently, and it just came to me as I was kind of writing some thoughts and I was freestyling a talk, and I came up with a phrase I'm quite happy with. Maybe I won't feel that way tomorrow, but the phrase is the more you, you are, the more you are. And I just want everybody to be more of themselves, to let go of all these ideas about what perfect means, to lean into your inner weirdo and to let your freak flag fly proudly. Because you're going to be in your highest state of joy, your deepest passion, and you're going to be doing that deep, meaningful work that you're always meant to do and just realize something. You don't have to be 50 or going on 60 or whatever to come to this conclusion. You could be 12, you could be 17. It doesn't really matter. Just to realize life is short. Make the most of it and go out there and tell your why story, everybody. Andrea, it's been a pleasure talking to you. Thanks for being a guest on the show.

Andrea Sampson (65:14)

Chris, this has been an absolute joy and a pleasure. You are an incredible question asker and just very insightful. Thank you. This has been such a pleasure. Thank you.

Chris Do (65:27)

Thank you. And if people want to find out more about you, where do we send them?

Andrea Sampson (65:31)

Check out my YouTube channel, the Thought Leader Academy, my LinkedIn. I'm very active as andreasamson and then of course our website, talkboutique.com There we are.

Chris Do (65:42)

We'll include those in the notes. Be sure you check those out and be well. Thank you.

Andrea Sampson (65:48)

Thank you. Hi, I'm Andrea Sampson and you're listening to the Future.

C (65:59)

Thanks for joining us. If you haven't already, subscribe to our show on your favorite podcasting app and get new insightful episodes from us every week. The Future Podcast is hosted by Chris do and produced and edited by Rich Cardona Media. Thank you to Adam Sanborn for our intro music. If you enjoyed this episode, then do us a favor by reviewing and rating our show on Apple Podcasts. It will help us grow the show and make future episodes that much better. If you'd like to support the show and invest in yourself while you're at it, visit thefuture.com and you'll find video courses, digital products, and a bunch of helpful resources about design and the creative business. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you next time.