How to Think Bigger and Break Mental Limits w/ Jodie Cook | Ep 390

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Futur with Chris Do

Episode 390: How to Think Bigger and Break Mental Limits w/ Jodie Cook
Date: October 18, 2025
Host: Chris Do
Guest: Jodie Cook

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Futur delves deeply into the concept of thinking bigger—distinguishing the act of “thinking bigger” from simply dreaming big. Chris Do and Jodie Cook explore how individuals can recognize and break self-imposed mental limits, drawing inspiration from personal experiences, biographies, neuropsychology, and practical routines. Throughout, they challenge entrenched beliefs, discuss the value of mentors, the process of learning and unlearning, and the power of intentionality in one's pursuit of ambitious, life-changing goals.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Truman Show and Living in "Invisible Limits"

• Jodie Cook introduces the core theme:
  “We're talking about how you think bigger, not how you dream bigger, how you think bigger.” (00:13)
  — Emphasizes how most people unconsciously accept the boundaries of their current world (“the movie set”), limiting their potential.
• Reference to a memorable Truman Show quote: "We accept the world which we are presented," highlighting the invisible barriers people internalize.

Pattern Interrupts and Expanding Possibility

• Jodie’s Nomadic Life as Pattern Interrupt:
  Jodie shares how her nomadic lifestyle surprises people, illustrating how exposing others to alternative ways of living is a “pattern interrupt” that triggers new thinking.
  “What I think is so normal is someone else's massive pattern interrupt…” (00:52)

Why We Get Stuck in Our Thinking

• Chris Do’s Reflection:
  Presents “exceptional thinking”—the attitude that big achievements are only accessible to others, not ourselves.
  “They use this kind of very inappropriate, like, exceptional thinking… so they exclude themselves from this. We're all like that to a degree.” (02:52)
• Solution:
  • 1. Work with mentors/friends doing things you aspire to.
  • 2. Expose yourself to more diverse people and ideas.

Recognizing Your Own Mental Limits

• The Power of Biographies over Business Books:
  Jodie recommends biographies to absorb the underlying beliefs of high achievers, rather than seeking step-by-step guides.
  “I'm listening for other people's beliefs...if you have that belief and that's what made you achieve that thing, as long as I believe that thing, then I can find a way as well.” (08:12)

Learning Requires Unlearning

• Discussion on Benedict Carey’s Book:
  Chris presents the idea: “In order for us to learn something new, we must forget something old. The act of learning is the act of forgetting.” (13:37)
  — This idea recurs as they discuss letting go of outdated beliefs to make space for new perspectives.

Using the Subconscious Mind for Creative Problem Solving

• Practical Process Outlined by Chris Do:
  1. Saturate your mind with research and truly immerse in the problem.
  2. Set an intention and prompt your subconscious before sleep.
  3. Trust that breakthrough ideas will emerge during periods of unconscious processing—often in the shower or upon waking.
     "You saturate your brain, then have the conversation with yourself... then the ideas are formed." (21:54)
     — Cites creative techniques used by Edison and others for subconscious problem-solving.

The Role of Vision and Unattainable Goals

• Thinking Bigger by Changing the Goal:
  Chris stresses the value of creating a “vision” so grand it’s likely unattainable, using it as a daily filtering mechanism for decisions.
  “If it's remotely possible for us to achieve, we have to change the goal.” (27:16)
  — Example: The vision to teach a billion people to make a living doing what they love, with a tangible milestone to eventually create “The School of The Future.” (30:06)

Milestones, Mission, and Vision

• Milestones as Proof-of-Progress:
  Jodie and Chris discuss the importance of connecting day-to-day actions and smaller milestones to an overarching vision, balancing daily practices with big-picture ambition.
  “Even if the big unattainable goal never comes to fruition...you still can say I stayed true to the vision.” (30:53)

Me-Centric vs. Other-Centric Goals

• Challenge from Chris:
  Chris encourages goals with purpose and community impact over purely personal ambition:
  “I cannot galvanize others in the support of my dream...money is the result of doing something good and ideally helping other people.” (32:41)
  He quotes Zig Ziglar: "You can have everything you want if you help enough other people get what they want." (33:01)

Gratitude, Ambition, and the Balance of Enough

• The Ambition-Gratitude Dynamic:
  The episode ends with a nuanced discussion of ambition balanced by gratitude—not contentment.
  Chris: “Be grateful for what you have while you work for all that you want.” (42:46)
  — They caution that relentless pursuit without gratitude leads to hollow success.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Unlearning for Growth:
  “The act of learning is the act of forgetting.” — Chris Do, referencing Benedict Carey (13:37)

• On Breaking Mental Patterns:
  “Your normal is someone else's abnormal or impossible thing.” — Chris Do (02:08)

• On Vision and Filtering Life Choices:
  “So the vision for the future is to teach a billion people how to make a living doing what they love...Because it makes me think bigger. So that I never allow myself to play small.” — Chris Do (27:16)

• On Consuming Content Mindfully:
  “You find more what you look for. That’s how the world works. And I'm looking for ways to grow and expand my mind to think bigger.” — Chris Do (50:15)

• On Life-changing Goals:
  “It's better to fail at a big goal than succeed at a small goal.” — Chris Do (31:19)

• On Balancing Ambition With Gratitude:
  “Be grateful for what you have while you work for all that you want.” — Chris Do, quoting Jim Rohn (42:46)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:13 — Jodie introduces “thinking bigger” vs. dreaming bigger
• 00:52 — Pattern interrupts and the power of nomadic living
• 02:52 — Chris on “exceptional thinking” and limiting beliefs
• 07:16 — Regret from missed opportunities, importance of exposure
• 08:12 — The value of biographies in shifting beliefs
• 13:37 — Learning by unlearning; the necessity of forgetting
• 17:58 — The subconscious mind and intentional problem-solving
• 27:16 — Chris reveals his “unattainable” vision
• 30:06 — The School of The Future
• 32:41 — Shifting from me-centric to other-centric goals
• 42:46 — Ambition balanced by gratitude

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Episode Tone

• Candid, introspective, and philosophical:
  Both speakers are open about their mental patterns, occasional frustrations, and the process of challenging their own limiting beliefs.
• Encouraging and practical:
  The episode is action-oriented, providing clear processes for creative problem-solving and personal development.
• Friendly rapport:
  Frequent light teasing and shared laughter make the discussion approachable and relatable.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• To think bigger:

  • Disrupt your patterns by exposing yourself to new people, lifestyles, and beliefs.
  • Seek inspiration from biographies that reveal the mental models of high achievers.
  • Invest in deep learning, then allow your subconscious to generate insights.
  • Articulate a vision so bold that it continually inspires and filters your actions.
  • Balance relentless ambition with sincere gratitude for your current state.

• Actionable Routine:

  • Research and saturate your mind with a challenge.
  • Set an intention before sleep (“solve this problem”).
  • Be patient—breakthroughs emerge when least expected.

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Final Reflection:
The episode champions the philosophy that bigger thinking is not just about setting audacious goals, but about continually challenging your own mental boundaries, habitually learning (and unlearning), and intentionally crafting the environment and practices that allow your subconscious mind to lead you to the next level. Use gratitude as a compass, ambition as a fuel, and let go of what no longer serves your growth.

Transcript

[Chris]

You find more, what you look for. That's how the world works. I think there's some refinement about what we're going to talk about today.

[Jody]

We're talking about how you think bigger, not how you dream bigger, how you think bigger.

[Chris]

And why is that a problem? Not thinking big?

[Jody]

So I'm in Lisbon now, and on the way here, I rewatched the Truman show because we talked about it last time, and I was like, I need to get more familiar with this again. And Christophe, the Truman show creator, said a line that was, we accept the world which we are presented. And I just feel like so many of us are living in our. Our versions of the Truman Show. We don't realize what's possible. We're. We've almost got this kind of movie set that we're in that we don't necessarily know how to break free from. And I feel like so many of us want to. And so when I'm going around the world at the moment, I often meet people in gyms, and the first question is often like, where are you from? Or, did you move here? Or that kind of thing. And I'm always like, oh, no, I'm nomadic. Like, I move places every three or so months. And sometimes people are just like, what? Like, what do you mean? What do you do for work? How do you do that? And it's almost like something that I think so normal is someone else's, like, massive pattern interrupt, because they now realize that this thing that they didn't even think was possible is possible. And I feel like I want to find ways of reaching those pattern interrupts everywhere. But I guess the problem is you don't know what you don't know. So if you don't know that something bigger exists, how can you ever reach it? So I realize this is a big question, but I feel like you might have some good things to say on just this topic.

[Chris]

In general, is it going to be our thing that every episode we will bring up some reference to the Truman Show?

[Jody]

Yeah, I think so. I think it's very important.

[Chris]

Yes. So. Well, in that case, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, in case I don't see you.

[Jody]

Yes.

[Chris]

Yes. Okay. I think that's good context. Your normal is someone else's abnormal or impossible thing. But if you're living your life, how do you know you're not artificially putting a limit as to how much you can grow and what you can do? It's kind of impossible, right?

[Jody]

Yeah. And I guess if you. Especially if your goal is to Fulfill the kind of the highest expression of yourself as a human being, which I feel like mine is. It's like, how do you know the highest expression of yourself as a human being? Because you could. You could go around thinking, oh yeah, I'm smashing it. I'm doing really good. And it's like, no, you're not. Because this is different, because you could do so much more if you only knew it was possible.

[Chris]

Okay, so let's. Let's go over some basic observations, I think, in terms of why do we get set in our own ways? I think when we are presented with a world that is different than ours, it causes a lot of friction in our brain in that we have to confront a truth and that we could have lived this life all this time and we were the ones holding ourselves back. Or we can do. What most people do is like, that can't be true. That's not real. That doesn't work. That's the general reaction I get from people, that this isn't possible. Or, yeah, that worked for a period of time for a specific person in a specific moment, but not now. They use this kind of very inappropriate, like, exceptional thinking is what I call it. Like, not to be exceptional, but this works for everyone except for me. It's the opposite of what you think. So they exclude themselves from this. And we're all. We're all like that to a degree. And it's kind of why I think it's really important for us to do two things. Number one, work with a coach or consultant or mentor or friend who's doing things that you'd like to do, and you can see how far you can stretch. And they'll challenge you and they'll say things that are hard to hear, but you can accept because you know it's from a good place, like it's from a loving place, versus some random on the Internet saying, you should do this, don't do that ever again. And although it could be really good advice, I'm not hearing from you, I'm not having hear that today. Number two is I think we need to expose ourselves to more people, more ideas. Because when we see someone that hits whatever checkboxes we have in our own mindset, that is doing exactly what it is that we want to do, then we give ourselves permission to do that. So the idea of nomadic living, being able to have free time and to move from place to place, not a new concept, but perhaps to the gym rats that were there because you're a gym rat too, they're like, wait a minute, if you can do this, why can't I do this? And what are you doing differently that allows you to do this? Right. So we have whatever reasons, filters in our own mind that it has to be something or someone that we can relate to. Otherwise we won't pursue that. That might be a whole nother conversation, because I don't believe in that personally, but I know a lot of people are stuck in that place. I'd love to get your response to that.

[Jody]

Yeah, that is almost it. It's almost like, how did we end up in this universe where our worlds have collided for this split second, and yet we're coming at the this split second from wildly different perspectives or realities or something else? And that can almost be the moment that your fabric cracks. Really? Because you're like, you're just here standing in front of me. Sometimes you might. Sometimes I feel like I might have had it with someone that you bump into that you haven't seen in a long time. And then. And you shared an experience together, like you went to college together or whatever, and then there somewhere, and you're different. And then you're like, oh, cool. I feel like I've had that both ways around. With some people, I've been like, oh, cool, you're. You're doing amazing stuff. And with some, I'm like, how have you not done anything more than that? Because we've. We've had the same amount of time. And then I think what you said about the frustration comes at yourself because you've. You feel like you have had. You've had the clues and you didn't notice the clues. And I've definitely had that before. Even. Even recently. It was like, it was like six months ago that we built a funnel for CoachVox and my. One of my best friends, his YouTube channel, is the funnel guy. He's been in my life for so long, he's been talking to me about his work. I've been, like, really interested in it, and I didn't. And because he works with course creators and I'm not a course creator, it was almost like, oh, that's not for me. That's not. That doesn't apply. But then as soon as I started applying it, it was like, oh, this is so obvious. How did I not see this before? It's so frustrating. And I feel like I don't want to those things to keep happening, and no one wants them to keep happening.

[Chris]

There's a. There's an expression, it says the teacher will appear when the Student is ready. So this friend of yours who's been in your life for many, many years, you just weren't ready to see it at that time. And that's totally okay. Yeah, you just weren't looking for it.

[Jody]

You just always have that feeling, though, like, oh, if I knew then what I knew now, because I think that about being nomadic in travel as well. Because before like 2020, kind of 15, I was so Birmingham centric. It was so. It was all about my hometown, a place I grew up. And I wanted to be like the best agency in my. In Birmingham. And I won. Oh. In 2014, I won Birmingham Young Professional of the Year. And I thought I was like the queen of that city. And it was like, so. It's so stupid. It was so tiny. But then it wasn't until I properly started traveling that it was like, oh, there's a big wide world out there. And then everything changed after that.

[Chris]

Yes. So how do we. How do we identify our own limited thinking and us not thinking big enough? How do you know when that's happening? If you don't have the ability to have a coach or to be exposed to people that are doing really interesting things that are going to challenge you?

[Jody]

Probably a few different ways. The one I. The one I can think of that I think I like the most, that feels quite low barrier to entry is reading biographies. Not really reading business books, but reading what people have done, the people who've done the stuff, what they think. And I think it's because I like listening out for people's beliefs because I almost think I don't need the step by step always. Because how you did it back then might be different to how I should do it now. But I like that they, in their writing will share just the stuff that they believe in, just really offhand. And then I'm just like, oh, if you have that belief and that's what made you achieve that thing, then as long as I believe that thing, then I can find a way as well. Because the main fundamental thing is that it exists and it's possible.

[Chris]

So you're literally reading other people's stories who are accomplished individuals that then you can look at the breadcrumbs and say, oh, there's a little shift, there's. That sound a little different. Maybe I can try that. So the question for you is what biography has been most impactful to you? Because I don't read biographies at all.

[Jody]

I did quite like Elon Musk's. No matter what you think about him, whether he's an idiot and you hate him. I think that the idea of, the idea of creating that many huge companies is interesting. Very interesting. And I guess that's even, that's even not his autobiography. That's a biography. But sometimes I feel like other people can get it out. Do you put your head in the hand? In your hands? Not a fan, I'm guessing.

[Chris]

No, no, no. I'm just playing around. It's. I have wildly different impressions of Mr. Musk, but I don't want to get detracted by that. I want to say on this. Was it a Walter Isaacson biography on Elon Musk?

[Jody]

Yeah, that.

[Chris]

Yeah, that he's famous for writing biographies, right?

[Jody]

Yeah, for sure. And then, I mean, his Steve Jobs biography. And then also Oprah is. It's kind of a biography. It's also, it's a bit, it's not, it's not like her full story, but her book is called what I Know For Sure. And the idea of someone who has done what she's done, listing what they know for sure, listing their beliefs. I read that quite a few times.

[Chris]

Yeah. Well, there's this expression. I think we've talked about it before. I first heard it from Blair Enns, who said all strategies autobiographical. And I, I want to unpack that for people who don't fully understand what that means, because it's a pretty profound statement. What it means is that whoever you're talking to has had some success and failures in their life. So whatever advice they're going to give you or how they see the world is built on their own life experiences. So if they want to say something like, okay, Simon Squibb, who we talked about, I believe we talked about Simon Squibb. He's self taught and he's a sales guy. And so he believes in a couple things. Number one is we all need a break. Because when he needed it most as a homeless person, somebody allowed him to cut their lawn. And how he built this business. So he's like, everybody needs a break. And that he learned how to sell and by himself without going to school or even reading books. He just learned how to sell. It's an intuitive process for him. So he believes running around the world by asking people, what's your dream? Is that he's going to be the person to give them their first big break. And secondly, he doesn't believe in much in education at all because he believes everything that you need to learn in life you can learn on your own because that's autobiographical. So when he and I Got into a little debate about this. He started, I think maybe 1% change his mind that some things need to be taught and learned in a structured environment. Because if you fail at your job, people could get hurt, businesses could be hurt. But if you're at sales and you fail at sales. Yeah. You don't get the new account. Okay. Life can continue. And that's why I think sometimes it's dangerous and for us to be aware of our own cognitive biases or biases. Biases. And that we don't recommend to other people exactly what's worked for us because they are not us and they're not doing what we were doing. So just let's keep that in mind. So when we read biographies, I think we're trying to extract that whole idea from what we read. Like, oh, that strategy has worked for them. That's where you say, well, she or he might have done it this way in that time. Then you have to do the mental math of mapping it out to where you're at. Right.

[Jody]

Yeah, there's always. There's always mental maths. But then I don't. I'm listening for other people's beliefs because I feel like I just want that starting thing. But then you're always kind of combining it with your own experience and what you already to believe to be true. I feel like I'm not looking for wholesale changes. It's more like course corrects.

[Chris]

Okay.

[Jody]

Tiny course corrects that are sending me in a different direction. And then I feel like once you have one new belief that you're open to accepting. You kind of let go of an old belief and then it feels like you keep, like, shedding your skin and you're moving towards someone who believes the stuff that, like Jody 3.0 is believing rather than Jody 2.0.

[Chris]

Yeah. Have you read Benedict Carey's book, the Surprising Thing about How We Learn?

[Jody]

No.

[Chris]

It's a. It's a super nerdy book. And admittedly I haven't read all of it. I read a bunch of it. But the, the general premise is this. In order for us to learn something new, we must forget something old. The act of learning is the act of forgetting.

[Jody]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And it's. It's kind of paradoxical that you would think I can just infinitely learn more things. And truth be told, I don't think you can, especially when it comes to belief systems. So if you're listening to this, if you're watching this, dear listener, dear, dear viewer, dear subscriber, is to think about. This is if I Want to learn a lot of new things. What is it I need to give up on? And maybe we can get to the crux of the matter. Like you, Jody, I coach a lot of people, and it's one of my consistent recurring points of frustration that people ask for help. I give them help, and they want to find 99 ways in which they don't want to have any help. And then if they're paying me, it's fine. It's how you want to spend your money, that's your prerogative. But when they're not paying me, as a friend asking for help, I have a very, very short views and patience for this. I'm like, almost intolerant of it. Right. And I. I can run down a whole bunch of different things. Now I'm going to offend some of my friends because they know who they are. But I have a small circle of friends who need help. They're not where they need to be. They're in the hundreds of thousands, not in the millions of dollars in revenue. And I always tell them, if you stop doing X and did Y instead, you'd be wealthier, healthier and happier, and you'd work less hours. But you consistently want to do the exact same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. And I don't want to waste any more of my time. I've given you the best I've got. I'm not the person for you. And then they get really even more offended when I say that. But at this point, I've become, I mean, I guess technically an old man. And now I'm a cranky old man. And I don't have time for this. If you want to do this work, great.

[Jody]

What you said about that we have to unlearn stuff before we learn new stuff. I feel like this is why I don't watch tv, because I'm really aware that if I was going to watch something mindless, it would be getting rid of other stuff that actually matters. I feel quite intentional about that.

[Chris]

Ooh, I want to challenge that.

[Jody]

Yeah.

[Chris]

I think the act of learning things is an intentional effort. So if you're watching Gearboost television, you're making an effort to remember that, or you're like, you know what's just mind numbing? Like, you know when you're in an escalator and not. Not escalator. I'm sorry, when you're an elevator, Muzak comes on. And Muzak I didn't even know was a term. It's like copyright free, generic Music that doesn't have actually any hooks or any. Any bit of note because they can use it and not pay royalties. And it's just to kill white noise. Or it's just to kill the dead silence. It's its own form of white noise, I should say. So I. I just want to make sure that when you're watching things, you're not. Nobody that I know, unless you're a genius, like, oh, I'm just watching the Kardashians. I can remember every episode. This is episode four. And this is when Chloe says, whatever, you know, you're just putting it on to just veg out a little bit. It's mindless entertainment. Okay, now to the point. I believe in this so much because I think there's some evidence behind this. There are books, one of which is called how to Be an observer of the World. I don't think books are written because no one needs it or it's just on a whim. I think there are some studied people who look at the world and say, what is wrong? Why are people stuck? And I remember this line very clearly from my former lettering instructor, Nils Lindstrom. And he said something. We can't draw what we don't know, and we don't know what we haven't learned how to see. So the first thing that we need to do is to learn how to see. And I understand that deeply, and I feel that deeply. And that's why I think for a good portion of our education system, people have yet to be taught how to see, how to become an observer of the world.

[Jody]

So how do you clear your mind? What are your. What are your different ways that you clear your mind?

[Chris]

So I find that, at least for me, I have no evidence that this is true, in that there are. I think people talk about these two states, our active learning brain, which is the one that you and I are using that right now, when we need to recall on things, we need to connect dots and we need to formulate words into sentences. And then there's our archival brain, the brain that's recorded everything that we've ever learned in our entire lives. Every experience, thought, emotion, taste, feeling. It's recorded everything. Ideally, we would be working with our archival brain to be able to call up things, but it's very hard to access outside of our dream state. The reason why we have such strange dreams is because we. During our sleep, and this is why sleep is so important. We're defragging, compartmentalizing, recording the day, and we're also mapping it to everything we've ever experienced before. Hence why we have such strange, nonsensical, non linear dreams. And if you don't sleep enough, you don't give yourself time to process and record all that stuff. What we want to do is to be slippery, to be able to slip in between the two states. Now some people have lucid dreams where they can actually be aware that they're dreaming while they're dreaming. Every once in a blue moon I might be able to do that, but as soon as I become aware, I wake up. So that's a skill in itself. So the best time, and I think the most of us would say that we're the most creative and clear minded, most, I guess our most brilliant self is when we're doing nothing while we're awake. This is really important. This is why people have those brilliant inspirational moments in the shower. The shower we've done thousands of times before. We enter into the autonomic state, which is we can do things without thinking. Driving is like that. Vacuuming can be like that. Washing the dishes or mowing the lawn can be like that. Going for a very gentle, comfortable walk can be like that. Especially if you walk the path many, many times. This is why people say when they're stuck, they want to go for a walk in nature. Because nature doesn't have noise, it doesn't have stimulation. Because what we don't want to be doing is learning. Because when we're learning, we can't access the archival brain. So this weird self hypnotic state, we're able to use our thinking, learning brain powered by our archival brain. And so if you want to be a more creative person, you want to write better, if you want to come up with better ideas, put yourself into states where you could access both. They're fleeting, they're hard to access. But if you can make a habit of this, you can actually do this. And I've done this many, many times in my life. And famous inventors, thinkers of our times have done this literal thing before they even understood what this thing was all about. And I've heard many reports on this. I think it was Jefferson or Edison, who would literally work at their desk until exhaustion while holding a steel ball in their hand. And they would do that because as they were slipping into unconscious thought that when the ball would, or their hands would relax, it would drop on the floor and it would make a loud sound and they would wake up and they would jot down ideas. Now you can't do this in a prolonged state because you're not getting restful sleep. You're not getting that necessary recuperative sleep. But you can do it for periods of time, especially when you need to. So use this with caution, everybody. How I do this is before I go to sleep, I have a very specific ritual. I immerse myself in deep research and reading. And research doesn't mean I have to read biographies and books and look at statistics. It could be anything. But I just want to make sure my mind is properly saturated with the problem and any inspiration that I can draw upon. So my creative process back in the day when I was writing commercials or writing treatments for commercials and pitches, is that I would ask my interns to research everything they can about certain keywords, and they would do that, and most of it was visual research. So they would literally show me thousands of images. We'd sit down together and do, like, three or four interns in organizing folders and just show me so many different things. Like, that's good, that's good, that's good. Save that. I want more of that. And I'm just going through kind of like how you would brainwash somebody. You've seen those programs when they chain you to a chair and they're just showing you images after images. Well, these are images that were designed for a purpose. And then I would go to sleep, and before I'd go to sleep, I would have a conversation with myself. And other people do this as well, so it's not something new. I'd say, okay, well, Chris is going to go to sleep. I need your help. Need you to work on this, and I need you to come up with a solution. By the time we get up and without failure, it's sometimes not the first night, but by the second or third night, the ideas are formed. And then I. I always have a notebook and a pen next to my bedside, because those ones, I don't want a chance that I'll forget it. And so what happens is, in the morning when I'm showering, sometimes it will just come to me. I'm like, this is it. This is brilliant. And I go over to my wife, who knows I'm working on a big project. I'll say, I figured it out. She's like, figured it out. I'm like, yeah, yeah. Here's what I'm thinking for this campaign. And she goes, that is brilliant. When did you come up with that? Oh, in my sleep, in the shower. And she's like, I hate you. Okay. And the reason why this doesn't work for a lot of people Number one is because you've got properly saturated your brain and literally, figuratively understand what that means. Like, think of your brain as a sponge, and that you have to soak it with so much stimulation that it cannot hold anymore. At a certain point, it is a diminishing return on investment of time and energy. You just. I can't take any more images. Can't. Read another article. My brain is mush. Step number two is to have the conversation with yourself and be ready for what's about to happen. You don't force it. You just have a conversation, and you activate your subconscious, your archival mind to do the work for you. It's still you. And there's a famous director. His name is Michel Gondry. Do you know Michel Gondry, famous music video director who transitioned to making films? Some of my favorite Eternal Sunshine and Spotless Mind, Be Kind, Rewind, these bizarre concept indie films. And he described having this dream for a music video. And when he woke up, he was so upset because it was somebody else's idea, he couldn't steal it. This. He realized he was stealing from himself. And this turned out to be a music video for the Foo Fighters. When David Gro and some of the bandmates were dressed in a dress and his hands grew into outsized hands, and he was fighting with these super large hands. It was in his dream. So a lot of people in history have been able to do this. So I'm telling you, it's not a rare thing. It's just intentionally setting this up so that the surface area of luck increases.

[Jody]

Hmm. I like that a lot. Imagine if my subconscious mind and your subconscious mind had a chat together.

[Chris]

Okay.

[Jody]

In a. In a dream or. Or in a different parallel universe or something, do you think that, like, what would that general vibe be of us? So, like, subconscious mind, Chris, do you think he's like, yeah, like, I'm rooting for Chris. He's on the outside, I'm on the inside. I'm, like, helping him out. I'm sending all these clues. I'm, like, processing Stu for him. I'm, like, handing out these, like, ideas, and I'm handing out these solutions. Or do you think he's like, oh, man, he's. Why is he taking this long to get it? Like, I don't understand. I'm like. I just tell him all the time, like, empty your head. It's going to be easy. Do you think. What's the vibe of this. Of this subconscious mind?

[Chris]

That's really interesting. When you asked me this question, I Didn't think of anything that you were saying at all. I was thinking our subconscious mind is like this free spirited fit, like formless entity that isn't think nor talk like us. When you say what would they do? We would just be floating forms of gas and there'd be vibes and energy, probably a huge range of emotions and feelings and, and freedom, not shackled by reality. So I think when, when you said your version of it, it was like our conscious mind telling us what the subconscious mind would do. But I was thinking more from the form of the subconscious mind which is free from all the moral ethical constraints that our physical conscious mind is. So if I were responsible for what the subconscious mind would do, I'd be a little scared because I don't know what it would do. Yeah, because you know like in your dreams you do some wacky ass stuff. Because it's not shackled by the rules of humanity or about acting proper. And I think that's what's beautiful about the subconscious mind. You can play in realms that we can't in, in the regular physical world. And so I think the, the conversations would have would be like sound and music and it wouldn't even be the kind, it would just. We would just know what we were thinking. So we wouldn't even need to use words.

[Jody]

So this is the answer, that's the answer to how you think bigger. The answer to how you think bigger is you become your subconscious mind as much as possible.

[Chris]

I never thought of it like that. I had a real answer for you though. Let's see how it tracks with you though. I think the way that we are able to think bigger is we have to realize whatever goal we have, if it's remotely possible for us to achieve, we have to change the goal. Now you can call this a lot of different things, a vision, mission, vision, mission, purpose or something like that. I don't really care what you call it. We've been saying our mission is to do this, but then as I read definitions of this, it's. I think it's our vision. Something that's so far down the horizon it's unattainable. And the mission is like what we do every day to achieve that, to work towards it. So the vision for the future is to teach a billion people how to make a living doing what they love. And people routinely ask me, is it possible? I said possible, probable? No. In my lifetime, probably not. So why have this dream? Why have this vision? Because it makes me think bigger. So that I never allow myself to Play small. And I'll tell you why. Because somebody's like, chris, why don't you sell your company and do this with us? That doesn't move me in the direction of the vision. Or why don't you release this course and. Or do private education for like 30 people? You make a lot more money. Well, that is not in support of the vision. This is why one of the first major milestones I'm going to get to is when we make $100 million in revenue. Because I'm going to use a hundred million dollars to buy a traditional brick and mortar school. And then I'm going to convert that school to become a hybrid modern school where most of the buildings and the spaces are used for things that are good for us, that are community spaces, not lecture halls. We'd have one massive theater where we can watch pre recorded content together to have a communal experience. The way that we experience things in theaters. There's something about a shared experience that brings us together versus just watching alone in our homes. Number two, there would be a gym. State of the art, of course. Number two or three, there would be the world's healthiest, most nutritious cafeteria you've ever been to. And there'd probably be a garden where we're going to be more connected to the plants. And there's going to be indoor outdoor space where you're encouraged to walk barefoot so you can connect with the earth. And then there, of course are a lot of rooms to record and make content and all the supplies and materials that you need, but the rest of it would be gone. There'd be activations for people to come and experience this and to share and to teach. Because an important part of learning is teaching. Very few schools actually create this opportunity for people.

[Jody]

Do you have a name for the school?

[Chris]

Yeah, it's called the Future. Cool.

[Jody]

The school? Yeah. Nice.

[Chris]

The school of the future. This is what it is and I'm working towards it.

[Jody]

So you have a big unattainable goal with the view. And the purpose of that big unattainable goal is to become like the big vision. Because then it becomes a filter against anything that doesn't send you in the right direction. And then before then you have the milestones that are tied to things that are more. They feel more possible and probable because then you know that you're making those milestones that then lead to the big unattainable goal. And even if they. Even if the big unattainable goal never comes to fruition, it kind of doesn't matter because you still can say I stayed true to the vision and I created all these things along the way.

[Chris]

Yes. And I'm not the first person to say this clearly that most people fail because their long term goal is too small and their short term goal is too big. So what I want to do is have a really big long term goal and I'm totally content to go to my grave having never achieved it. Because in the pursuit of that goal, I've done a lot of good things. It's better to fail at a big goal than just seed at a small goal.

[Jody]

I have something really similar, but I didn't think enough about the milestones. I have two big long term goals and one's to be a world champion and one's to be a billionaire. And they're kind of similar as in they're like, it's like a vision, it's a thing. It's a thing that's big enough that makes me like, yes, this is really fun. But then I never think about any, any kind of yearly, quarterly, whatever type goals. All I think about is the day to day. I think about like, if I'm doing this every single day, then I'm leading in the direction of those two things and therefore it all makes sense. And it's kind of similar. It's like if I don't reach either of those two, it like doesn't even matter because I'm going in that direction the whole time. But then I like the idea of having more milestones that keep you then on track because maybe that's what's missing in the middle.

[Chris]

Yeah. So here's some things about your own big, big goals. Both of the goals are very me centric versus other centric. I want to be a world champion powerlifter. I want to make a billion dollars.

[Jody]

No, not even powerlifter doesn't matter. Sport agnostic.

[Chris]

Okay. World champion, period.

[Jody]

Yeah, Okay.

[Chris]

I want to be a world champion and I want to be a billionaire. I would challenge you to do something a little bit different. Is one of them is pretty clear. The other one is the result of you doing something, not the pursuit itself. Okay, if you say, if I said to you or let's just say I want to make a hundred million dollars in my lifetime. Yeah, cool, Chris, you can do that? Of course that's reasonable and of course you can do that. The problem with that is I cannot galvanize others in the support of my dream. And it doesn't give me any clear direction. It just says I want to make money. And you can talk to a 2 year old, to a 200 year old, they can all tell you the exact same dream. I want to be filthy stinking rich. It's not a plan, it's not a North Star, it's the result. So for me, money is the result of doing something good and ideally helping other people. I think it's a Zig Ziglar quote that says you can have everything you want if you help enough. If you help enough, other people get what they want. So let me say that again so I don't choke on the words. You can get everything you want if you help enough, other people get what they want. So my goal and how I'm going to achieve it is by helping a lot of other people achieve their goal. And then I have the best, most meaningful work I could ever do in my lifetime. The really cool part is I can galvanize other people and they will march and go to war with me, not against me. And I think that's the most beautiful part because we can build this thing together. And the hundred million dollars to buy the school gives the money purpose. Money is the means to achieve something, not the end goal itself. Because the pursuit of money in itself is a hollow goal in my opinion. After we achieve that goal, there's another bigger goal and another one. And the thing I wanted to tell people is I'm really inflexible about the long term vision, extremely adaptable to how we get there. So the path meanders, it goes in weird ways. It could be AI driven, it could be because I'm on a TV show and I'm an executive producer, I just don't know how to get there. And I'm open to any and all ways to get there. So what I do is when I look at opportunities, quote unquote, I look at to see how closely they align with the straightest path possible. But I'm open to going off the path. So I find that sometimes people are so inflexible as to how they get there that better paths, better opportunities present themselves and they just totally shut them down. I don't want to be that kind of person.

[Jody]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And I know what, when you have a goal and a vision that's so big that is articulated the right way, when you tell those to someone else, their eyes should light up that they're happy because they envision the world the way you see it and they want to help you achieve it.

[Jody]

I feel like when I say them out loud I get that they kind of sound like me centric goals, but I feel like the reason they're not in my head is. Is because they're not separate goals to me. They're the same goal. I feel like I want to do both at the same time. And I feel like that's partly because I don't know if anyone else has. And it's partly because a real big My kind of how I think about success or fulfilling work is that when I do cool stuff and then teach other people how to do that same cool stuff, it's like, that feels like the fun. The fun, cool way of doing it. That means that you get to be like, yeah, yeah, look, it's totally possible. I did it. Here's how you can do that kind of thing. Maybe it's more like I don't feel like it's me doing something because that those metrics matter to me so much, because it's something that, like, I've achieved. I feel like it's more like because it then teaches other people that they can do it too. And also because there's something about those two things at the same time that means you're almost showing people that they don't have to give up one area of their life in order to achieve success in another. Like, as in the whole, oh, I'm a billionaire, but I'm also really overweight or, like, I don't see my family or I don't do this, or I don't travel or whatever. Like, that's not aspirational. I feel like so many people go down that route that mine's more like, no, you can do. You can be exceptional in so many things at the same time, and you don't have to compromise. So it feels like it's a bigger message. It's not actually those two very me centric goals, but there's probably a better way of articulating them.

[Chris]

Yeah. I want to share this one thought with you that there are a lot of people who are really successful out there who've made tons of money. Some names were mentioned on this episode earlier today, and it seems like they're not any happier. When you look at them physically, don't look like they're improving. They look older, they're heavier. Old signs of stress are there. And I keep asking myself, and maybe people ask this of me too, and I'm not aware of it, is how much is enough? When is enough enough? And it's the pursuit. And I'm talking to my friend Rodrigo, which you'll meet soon. And I said, you know, there's something really beautiful about you. Like Rodrigo, he has a traumatic childhood story. He was born in. In Brazil, and he and his sister were held hostage for ransom. And so the minute his parents got him back, they left the country. They're like, we're done. We cannot raise our children in a place where we are worried about their. Their. Their safety like this. So they come to America. And he's had a lot of weird jobs, including being a butler. I've never met a person who's a butler before. He says, literally, I worked for rich families, and I would stand outside in a. What is it? In a suit and tie, holding an umbrella for them while they were drinking. He made a lot of money doing that, but obviously he was like, I can't do this anymore. He was a human umbrella holder, and he was treated like an object. And it's really sad in. In the 21st century that people still have these kinds of jobs. That's cool. I said to him, the most beautiful thing about you is the amount of gratitude that you have. You and your sister were raised really well by your parents, that no matter what's happening, you're so optimistic, you're so full of gratitude. On the opposite side of that is how quickly you shift from gratitude to complacency and contentment. And he goes, but, Chris. And I said, I know what you're going to say. You've achieved more things. You've made more than you ever thought possible for an immigrant boy like yourself. And I get that. So I said, these ideas are not in conflict. You can be grateful for what you have while you work for what you want, which is a Jim Rohn quote. I said, no matter what we do, how we go on this journey together, Drigo, please never lose that gratitude that you have. I love that about you. And if that wasn't in your DNA, I would not be spending this much time with you. He's extremely appreciative of everything that he has. But he said also that becomes a limiting belief because I believe, and I could be wrong here, and you can check me on this. I'm really grateful for everything I have. While I do everything to get what I want. That's the part he's missing, and I think that's the part that rich people are missing, too. They're just in the constant, never ending, relentless pursuit of what they want on, never being grateful for anything they have. And you can tell because they're douchebags to be around. They're total a holes they're insecure children in an adult suit, and they. They are obnoxious as hell.

[Jody]

Yeah. You know, I'm talking about not real.

[Chris]

Yeah. But not real.

[Jody]

Yeah. I don't believe fundamentally that when someone becomes successful or when someone becomes, like, rich beyond their wildest dreams, that they have to become a douche.

[Chris]

But no, they were doing before. Yeah.

[Jody]

I promise you on the head and be like, stop being real. Like, come on. This is not how you speak. Yeah.

[Chris]

You know when they're gonna get the hit in the head? When they hit bottom and they see that no one's there to support them, that everyone was a hanger on because of money, power, or association with it. They have no true friends. That's why they're so lonely and broken. There's a story here that. That really just, like, warms my heart. 50 Cent, you know the rapper 50 Cent, he's like, There are two people in my life that can never do me wrong and will always have their backs. My grandma and Eminem. This Eminem supported me from the. From the jump. He's always had my back. So he gets put on another status. Like, he could do no wrong in my eyes. 50 Cent is an accomplished rapper who sold many albums. He's rich, he's invested in a lot of different companies. He don't need money right now. And he could become a jerk, but he's not. And. And his bond, his friendship with Eminem transcends any professional thing. It just. Those are the kinds of relationships we all aspire, should aspire to have. But very few of us have those kind of relationships. And that's why those rich a holes are total D bags.

[Jody]

Yeah.

[Chris]

They have no friends.

[Jody]

The ambition and contentment scale is something I think about a lot because it's like, how do you get that sweet balance between ambition and contentment? And I do think the answer is gratitude.

[Chris]

No, it's ambition and gratitude, not contentment. No, I don't want you to be content with anything.

[Jody]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Because you settle at that point.

[Jody]

But ambition and gratitude, that's a scale.

[Chris]

It's a scale.

[Jody]

Yeah. So grateful for what you have while also wanting more, but knowing when enough is. But not getting complacent.

[Chris]

Yes. So I think the exact quote from Jim Rohn is, be grateful for what you have while you work for all that you want. There's a critical word and there's work. Not just pure ambition, because that will make you ungrateful. That'll make you manifest discontent. It's not just manifest work for all that you want. That's key.

[Jody]

So did we solve it?

[Chris]

We didn't solve anything.

[Jody]

I talked about it. Go, though. I have a whole. I have a whole set of notes here that I'm like, I'm going to put into practice after the. After we stop recording.

[Chris]

Yes.

[Jody]

I'm going to price. I'm not going to turn the TV on because I haven't turned it on yet. I probably don't know how to. It's just in the Airbnb. But I'm going to. Maybe I'll put some terrible music on so that it's just there, like processing in the background and then go through the stuff and kind of the defragging stuff. And then I'm going to introduce a problem to my mind before bed, after I've done some research. Maybe I'll do that tomorrow because I'm not going to research now and then empty my mind first and then see if it comes to me in the middle of the night or in the shower in the morning.

[Chris]

Yes. So you have to have the intention of what is it that you're researching? And it has to be an intense, hot, burning thing. And it doesn't happen in one day because deep research doesn't often cannot be completed in one day. So you need to sit there and you need to grind, grind, grind until you're like, I'm exhausted. This is as much as I can know about the thing I want to solve. And then you switch on the other thing. Don't activate it prematurely. You don't want to go in there half baked. Okay. There's a very specific process. If you do as I prescribe, exactly as the way I prescribe it, your probability of success will increase dramatically.

[Jody]

And do you think the problem that I should introduce to my subconscious mind is how do I put my vision into words?

[Chris]

Yes. And you have to give it some context as to what that looks like. It's kind of like prompting your own subconscious. You have to be kind of clear. You have to put parameters in. It's not just loosey goosey, like, do this for me.

[Jody]

So we talked about how to think bigger and we slightly thought differently around how you could accidentally think bigger or smaller based on what comes into your subconscious mind. I think we sort of agreed, but I think we sort of didn't agree about what is around you that could filter through, that could then impact how ambitious you were, say. But we mainly unpacked Chris's route for thinking bigger, which involves essentially clearing your mind as much as is humanly possible, possible and then introducing a very specific problem that you want your subconscious mind to solve. The way that you give your subconscious mind all the information is that you research the hell out of whatever you're trying to do so that you're, like, flooded with the information. There's no room for anything else in there because you already cleared it. You're just like, nope, I'm going to immerse myself. You're almost like jumping into a swimming pool of the entire thing that you're trying to get into. And then you get ready to go to bed. And before bed, you very intentionally set day I will something. Or you kind of have a conversation with your subconscious mind. You say, like, right, I've done this work for you. Your job is to solve this problem for me and to get me the solution. And then you. You trust. You trust that your subconscious mind is going to say, hey, thanks, buddy. Well, it doesn't. Yeah, she's speaking words, but it's kind of gonna. It's gonna have the. The feelings back to you that like, hey, thanks, buddy, for clearing out your mind, giving me all this stuff. I'll do what I can with it. And then you just trust that it might take a day, it might take two days, but either in the middle of the night or in, when you are on a run or when you're in the shower, you're going to get this. This thing that's going to be your. Your answer, and it's going to mean that you can get up to the next level, and that is ultimately how to think bigger. So I feel like it's almost like not being afraid of the scale of the problem that you do give your subconscious mind because you might as well test it with bigger stuff because there's nothing to stop you. It's not like you can't really lose. It's not going to judge you for it. It's just going to see what it can do. And it might also surprise you. So did I cover everything? Anything else that we covered that would be good. To recap on this new episode of Jodie and Chris don't know anything about anything.

[Chris]

I will say this one thing for clarification. Perhaps how I consume mindless content is different than how other people consume mindless content. I think it depends a lot on your frame and your state. But the way I consume information might be unique, or at least it's unique to some people in that I'm sifting for gold for 9, 18, and 24 karat gold. Okay, so I'm watching a TV show. And I watch many things. Like I watch people just punching each other in the face in mixed martial arts. And then you think, well, how does this contribute to your overall well being, Chris? Well, I'll tell you something. Yesterday, I'm at a shoot for the 60 Day Hustle Season 2, and I'm there and I'm talking to the director, said, hey, have you watched this show called Rhythm and Flow? He goes, yes, we're inspired by that. It's an amazing show. I said, well, I just finished it. What are your thoughts about who won? And then we got into whole, not heated debate, but we got into a very analytical conversation and some conclusions. And then I talked about the show, the setup, the structure, the judges, and like, damn, you really looked at that show. I said, not really, but I did watch the show. So how you and I, or me and anybody else, or you and anybody else, consumer thing will largely determine what we hold onto, how it changes our look, and what is productive of that. So I'm almost certain that 199 out of 100 people who watch the same show would not have the same observations or the same conclusion as I would, because we're all unique in that way. But you can see then how in a situation, when I'm talking to other people in the industry, my level of attention to detail or understanding show and structure and psychology and editing, lighting, staging, set design contributes to my conversation in a meaningful and productive way. Of course, if you sit there and just mindlessly tune out and don't pay attention to anything and only focus on the negative parts, it could lead to probably some bad mood or vibes or energy. And we want to be mindful of that. I just want to say that because if people are, well, that's just stupid as absurd what he's saying. Because I can enter into conversations with complete strangers about the most obscure thing and have a deep, meaningful conversation where we both walk away richer for the conversation. And oftentimes the impression I leave on people is, that person's a thinker, and I want to spend more time talking to that person.

[Jody]

So it's almost like everything you consume is holding up a mirror to you. And if you're thinking constantly, greatness, greatness, greatness, greatness, then you're going to find the greatness nuggets in it. And if you're thinking, worry, worry, worry, worry, then you're going to find the reasons to worry in it. You only find the stuff that you already tuned into that you're already being intentional about.

[Chris]

Yes, you find more what you look for. That's how the world works. And I'm looking for ways to grow and to expand my mind to think bigger.