The Futur with Chris Do

Episode 374: The Courage to Be Unapologetically Yourself w/ Jodie Cook

Release Date: August 23, 2025

Episode Overview

In this candid and thought-provoking episode, Chris Do sits down with writer, entrepreneur, and powerlifter Jodie Cook to discuss the origins of people-pleasing tendencies, the societal and parental factors that shape our sense of self-worth, and the ongoing personal journey toward being unapologetically oneself. They explore how to dismantle the subtle and overt ways we let others' opinions govern our lives, drawing from psychology, literature, personal anecdotes, and pop culture. The conversation dives deep into how to practically stop caring about what others think, how to foster true confidence, and why embracing one’s authentic self is both liberating and contagious.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Do We Care What Others Think?

[00:00–03:30]

• Chris: Questions the roots of caring about others' opinions and how it shapes our self-worth.

• Jodie: Traces it back to early schooling: conformity equals safety; difference = risk.

• Chris: Adds the survival component—belonging is equated with safety; moving between social environments disrupted his own sense of identity.

  "We learn quite early that we must go along to get along, because there's security in the group." – Chris, [05:45]

2. The Role of Parents and Subtle Control

[03:30–07:27]

• Chris explores how parents, even with the best intentions, can reinforce external validation for self-worth through praise and punishment systems.

• He references a Sadhguru concept: “Children are born perfect. It’s our parenting that messes them up.”

• Notes that value statements (e.g., "I'm proud of you") can be subtly controlling, referencing Marshall Rosenberg: any value-laden statement is a “violent form of communication.”

  "I'm proud of you, period, for existing. I don't need to dole it out. I don't want to control you." – Chris, [06:11]

3. Vertical vs. Horizontal Relationships (inspired by The Courage to Be Disliked)

[07:27–09:15]

• Jodie introduces the concept from The Courage to Be Disliked about the difference between hierarchical ("vertical") relationships (which rely on praise and rebuke) and "horizontal" relationships (which value gratitude and appreciation).

• She shares how switching her language at work from praise to appreciation transformed her company's culture.

  "I just forgot all sense of like, 'Oh, you did great work.'... It was all about, 'I'm really grateful to you for doing that.'" – Jodie, [08:25]

4. Self-Motivation vs. People-Pleasing

[10:44–14:04]

• Both discuss schooling and parental expectations versus personal drive.

• Chris shares how doing things for parental approval or to avoid shaming the family is not sustainable, resulting in "living for the weekends" rather than for a passion.

  "One sign that you’re not doing what you’re supposed to do in life is you live for weekends. Weekends are heaven and weekdays are hell." – Chris, [13:09]

5. Value Systems and Empathy

[14:31–18:18]

• They reflect on how entrepreneurs often have a rare perspective and find it hard to understand those who aren't motivated to change their situation.

• Chris offers a pragmatic analogy—like fitness, most people don’t want to be entrepreneurs, nor are they unhappy with their choices, despite external perceptions.

  "Those people who are doing their nine to five, I don’t think they think they’re miserable. ... They just have different value system." – Chris, [16:44]

6. The Practical Path to Not Caring

[18:19–21:22]

• Jodie: Reaching the state of not caring what people think is achieved by not judging others.

• Shift focus from external judgments to one’s own path—freedom comes when "judgment is separation."

  "If you make it almost like your policy that you’re going to let other people just do their thing... then somehow judgment ends up not really being part of your life." – Jodie, [18:23]

• Chris: Energy management—focus on your own expansive projects, leaving little bandwidth for worrying about others’ opinions.

7. Dealing with Criticism & Public Feedback

[21:22–25:34]

• Chris routinely reads and responds to all YouTube comments, parsing them for value vs. noise.

• Emphasizes the skill of not being rocked by either praise or criticism.

  "If you create content at a certain volume or frequency and don’t overthink it, that’s the critical part where you can see... there’s like, some rough edges, and not everything’s been polished." – Chris, [33:16]

• Jodie: Difference between critique (welcomed) and criticism (rarely constructive); “Happy people don't hate.”

8. The Blueprint for Becoming Unapologetically Yourself

[26:15–34:06]

• Jodie describes the process as removing masks, not adding layers—gradually letting go of care about perceptions and enjoying the playfulness that comes with it.

• Chris attributes his freedom to "say what you think,” referencing Blair Enns’ “Blairtopia” principle as the foundation for transparency and comfort in speaking truth.

  "Most of us don’t say what we think is because we’re so concerned about how the other person’s going to respond to it that we start editing." – Chris, [31:35]

9. Radical Individualism and Being a “Pattern Interruption”

[34:06–43:08]

• Chris: After years of doing “the client’s way,” his current phase is only doing things his way—which extends to everything, from business to clothing.

• Deliberate pattern interruption by challenging stereotypes, especially as an Asian man in creative fields.

  "At some point we have to decide, what do I want to do with my life? ... right now, I’m a big champion for ultimate freedom: freedom to do what I want, where I want, how I want, with whom I want for as long as I want." – Chris, [36:48]

10. Playfulness, Rebellion, and Social "Mischief"

[40:52–44:31]

• Jodie shares a gym anecdote about playful boundary-pushing, celebrating her own mischievous streak.
• Chris shares public speaking stories, purposely subverting expectations with humor and authenticity.
• Both agree this approach helps unlock more authentic, enjoyable experiences.

11. Self-Understanding, The “Truman Show” Metaphor, and Collective Reality

[28:13–51:16 (interwoven)]

• Jodie: Everyone is living out their own “Truman Show”—realizing that nobody is the center of anyone else’s universe is liberating.

• Chris: Agrees, referencing Shakespeare and the benefit of leaning into your “actor” role in life.

  "No one’s thinking about me. They’re just thinking about themselves in their own Truman Show. ... That is a tool that you can take either way, and both ways can be really helpful." – Jodie, [30:38]

12. Final Reflections & Tactical Takeaways

[43:38–51:49]

• Jodie: Draws inspiration from Robbie Williams’ self-aware cheekiness (“to become famous you have to be smart, but really you have to show off and be a bit cheeky”).

• Chris: Advocates for having fun with others' expectations, sometimes playing into them, other times pushing against them—but always remaining centered in personal identity.

• Both encourage listeners to keep pushing towards higher levels of self-acceptance and authenticity, noting that it leads to greater happiness and success.

  "That’s the meest me I’ve ever been, and I plan on being more of me. And that’s the culmination of everything we’ve been talking about today." – Chris, [49:46]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the subtle violence of praise:
  "Anytime I add a value statement to something that I’m saying, I’m speaking violently. So pride is saying, well, that’s a value statement, just as I’m ashamed of you is a value statement."
  — Chris, [06:06]

• On independent self-worth:
  "If you’re a professional, meaning this is how you make your primary means of a living, then you’re successful, in my opinion and we can have a conversation."
  — Chris, [24:40]

• On everyone living in their own reality:
  "No one's thinking about me. They’re just thinking about themselves in their own Truman Show."
  — Jodie, [30:38]

• On playful rebellion:
  "I quite like the rebellious... troublemaker side of our..."
  — Jodie, [41:53]

• On the path to freedom:
  "The first part of my professional life was doing what the clients wanted. The second part of my professional life is doing exactly what I want."
  — Chris, [36:48]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment / Topic | |----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | Why do we care what others think? School, society, survival | | 05:40 | The subtle control of parental validation | | 07:27 | The Courage to Be Disliked: Vertical vs. Horizontal relationships | | 10:44 | School experiences – motivation, grades, self-worth | | 14:31 | Entrepreneurs vs. employees and empathy for others’ paths | | 18:19 | The power of not judging others and freedom from self-consciousness | | 21:22 | Dealing with online criticism & feedback | | 26:15 | Mask removal: the journey to authenticity | | 31:35 | “Say what you think” as personal freedom | | 34:06 | Radical individualism; challenging cultural and professional stereotypes | | 40:52 | Pattern interruption and social mischief | | 43:08 | Playing with others’ expectations as a liberation strategy | | 50:48 | Embracing the “Truman Show”; everyone’s reality is their own | | 51:49 | Closing thoughts: Keep pushing toward authenticity |

Takeaways & Actionable Insights

• Recognize the roots: Most people-pleasing behavior is learned in childhood through social and familial pressures. Becoming aware is the first step.
• Shift relationships: Move from vertical (hierarchical) to horizontal (appreciative) relationships—stop doling out praise, start showing gratitude.
• Stop judging, start living: The less you judge others, the less you care about their judgments of you—a key step to genuine freedom.
• Express yourself: Embrace "say what you think" as a life principle—kindly but honestly.
• Lean into individuality: The ultimate liberation is creating your own definition of success and self-worth, breaking free from stereotypes.
• Pattern interrupt: Sometimes being unapologetically you means playfully disrupting others’ expectations and norms.
• Everyone’s the star of their own story: Realizing that no one is really thinking about you as much as you think is incredibly freeing.
• Keep leveling up: Whether you’re at a “3” or a “10” on the self-acceptance scale, keep pushing yourself toward greater authenticity and joy.

For more insights and resources, visit: thefutur.com/podcast