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- [00:00]
Chris
My next guest, this is an unusual one, is a person I just met recently, and of all places, it was during one of my online workshops, and Jay raised some questions about what I was thinking, and he challenged my thoughts. And many of you think, oh, I only want to get people on the show that I totally agree with. Now, don't get me wrong. There's a lot that I think we agree to and on, but there are things that we don't see eye to eye on, and I'm interested in exploring both sides of this.
- [00:26]
Jay Brown
My name is Jay Brown, and you are listening to the future.
- [00:33]
Chris
Jay. Welcome to the show. As I'm sitting here like a sweaty pig.
- [00:37]
Jay Brown
Thank you for having me. I just thought of when we were having that conversation and your workshop, one of the things that you called me on, which is in the next room, was the stripper pole. And I literally, I was thinking about it. I'm like, should I do it in that room? Because this is where it all started, the stripper poll. And you commented on it. And then we had this little banter on that, which led to, you know, the discussion that we had. So here we are today.
- [01:07]
Chris
Yeah. So I'm going to encourage everyone to, like, buckle up. It's going to be more of a conversation, a dialogue between the two of us. We share a lot of different things. Jay lived in San Diego. I lived in San Diego. He's a NorCal person. I was a NorCal person. And we're both exploring ideas in the intersection of art, creativity, teaching and learning. Self awareness, freedom. What does that even mean? And having agency. So, Jay, just really quickly, for people who don't know who you are, please introduce yourself.
- [01:36]
Jay Brown
Okay, so I'll give you the short story of my life. Born in the Philippines to a father that was in the Navy. Met my mother out there. Then we moved to San Diego when I was four years old, then moved four years later to Hawaii on the island of Oahu, and came back to San Diego. I then really took on sports and specifically football. And I saw it as the way out of poverty and being in the position that my family was in. So I dedicated my entire life to that craft and became a star athlete in high school. Ultimately played a little bit of professional football in the Arena League until I tore my acl. That was one of the big struggles that I had to go through in losing the identity of being an athlete. Went on from there to work at GEICO as an insurance agent. Shortly thereafter, I was like, this is not for me. Then I went into the world of entrepreneurship. Started my first business, which was a music licensing company, licensing music for TV and film use primarily, and then went from there to being an event producer, a club promoter, work with some of the big celebrities of our time. And during that time, I was at the height of what I thought was success with these celebrities, hosting these events, making money, doing the things. But internally, I still felt a lot of anxiety and fear. I decided to leave that and go into just being a regular person. Regular person. Then in 2013, I lost a marriage, and in the same year, lost my little sister, who died suddenly at the age of 26. And those two challenges really precipitated me going on this journey of transformation and wanting to understand myself and wanting to understand why, when I followed these blueprints that people had told me is the blueprint to happiness and success and fulfillment did not happen for me. And this is what's led me to the work that I do today and really who I am as an individual.
- [03:48]
Chris
What is the work that you do today as a normal person?
- [03:52]
Jay Brown
So the long and short of it is there are people who are looking for that thing that they are meant to do or feeling called to doing something, but they don't know how to get the clarity of what that thing is, to step fully into it, into their mission, if you will, and their purpose. And so that's really my work. My gift is to be able to hold a field of presence for individuals that allows them to tap into their highest self, their soul, divine intelligence. And through that, I help them come into clarity of what's actually blocking them in terms of their mechanisms, their distortions that cause them not to be themselves. And then I help them build the structures in terms of the content they need to create the copy. They need to design the websites, pitch decks, to get money, like all the practical things, to actually create the container for them to live out their mission, ultimately.
- [04:46]
Chris
So if you're a fan of the show, then you kind of know why we're talking. Because what he just described to you may sound familiar if you're paying attention at all. I hope. I hope. All right, that sounds like a very high thing to be doing to help people connect with their higher self, their greater intelligence, their soul, this gift. And I'm all about helping people to find this as well. So I'm very curious about how you do it, how you create that space and that presence to help people find this. What do you do in practical terms?
- [05:14]
Jay Brown
Well, the number one thing that keeps us from being ourselves and what I found kept me from being myself is having clarity around what our distortions are, the way in which we look at the world that causes us to drain and leak precious life force energy. I'm not talking about the energy that we get from drinking coffee or drinking Red Bulls or even eating food. I'm talking about spiritual energy, the energy that animates trees and plants and animals and all of that.
- [05:44]
Chris
Right?
- [05:44]
Jay Brown
Because that's at the core what we need in order to fulfill our life's mission. And so these distortions that come from societal programming, from what our parents told us, from our lineage, that are inherited through us and by us, cause us not to be ourselves, which then causes us not to be in alignment with divine intelligence. And when we're not in alignment with divine intelligence, we cannot receive the guidance that we need to fulfill our life's purpose. And I believe that's what's at the core of a lot of the chaos that exists internally, which then gets projected externally. So the first step in helping someone find what it is that they are meant to do is to help them understand and identify what their specific mechanisms are that keep them from being who they truly are. That would be the first step. Then the next step after that is helping them figure out what their unique skill is. The thing that they do better than most other human beings on the planet that's very natural to them, that comes easy to them. And usually they don't see it as something really powerful and valuable because it comes so easy to them, but they need to understand what that thing is because it provides the most value in the world, because it's something that only them know how to do at that level. And then there's a matching group of people who have a challenge that need that unique skill to help them overcome that challenge. So my job is to help them find what that thing is so that they can provide value in the world in a way that's in alignment for that individual. And then to construct, call it a business, right? That's what we call it these days, a business that enables them to serve in that way. And then I help them build all the practical elements around it, which is defining the ideology. And then from that ideology, how do you create the brand structure to express that ideology in the world so that it can start to attract the community? And then how do you nurture that community? And how do you ultimately model and exemplify what it looks like to live in alignment as a human being? So people will be attracted by that instead of being attracted by how much money you make, what cars you drive, how good you look, what kind of clothes you wear, which is kind of what drives a lot of people these days. But that's okay. It's part of the game.
- [08:13]
Chris
Okay, this sounds wonderful. So the first part is identifying the mechanisms that prevent you from achieving this thing. In your experience. What are the most common things to prevent us from seeing our gift or understanding our higher self, or tapping into that divine intelligence?
- [08:30]
Jay Brown
Believing that our needs get met through other people, that we have to convince people that we hold value in the world and we have to prove to them that we have this value. And so then we act in certain ways, we behave in certain ways that go against who we truly are. And then that causes us to be out of alignment, which then from there, that's why we lose sleep, that's why we feel stressed, that's why we feel overwhelmed. Because that's life's check engine light, that something is off and you need to check it. And so that to me is number one. It's like this belief that our needs get met through other people and making them believe that we have this certain value instead of being in alignment with life and realizing that all our needs get met through life. Call it God, call it universe, call it Spirit, call it source. When you orient that way, then life supports you through people and through opportunities that get thrown to you. But that misalignment in the way that we see the world is usually at the core of it, which causes us to feel like we have this undue pressure to perform, to act, to prove, and those are the mechanisms that keep us out of alignment.
- [09:56]
Chris
I'm all with you here. This is one of the biggest challenges that people have in that they're looking for other derived happiness, other derived goals. And until we start to realize that it's not an extrinsic pursuit, but an intrinsic one that comes from you, none of our happiness is going to be long lived. And we're constantly looking for the validation, support and approval of other people, making us act in ways that are not true to our highest self. I'm all on board there. I can't help but to notice this one thing, or just an observation here, a question for you, which is, how does a guy who plays professional football, a jock who also studied computer programming, who went on to do sales at geico, get in touch with this kind of spiritual stuff? Where in your timeline does this stuff enter your life? And how did you become interested in what got you to dive deeper into this?
- [10:48]
Jay Brown
So I mentioned I was married and got divorced. And when I was married, I was married to a woman. Her name was Melissa Johnson. And Melissa and I had some struggles in our life and also in our marriage. And those struggles led us to wanting to find relief and wanting to find a solution for these challenges that we are facing, which led us to a gentleman whose name is Dr. Victor Vernon Wolff. Dr. Wolff created a modality called holodynamics. And this modality was birthed out of Dr. Wolff's study of every science that exists today, and then creating a holistic approach to how we see consciousness through the frame of all of the sciences being combined together. And what that ultimately led him to do was during the Cold War, he went and visited the leaders of Russia and helped them to understand through a method called tracking, which essentially is just helping an individual understand what is driving them in their subconscious to do what they ultimately are doing. So he helped them understand at the root why they even wanted to go to war. And once they became aware of what those mechanisms were, they were like, well, that's actually not what we want. So Dr. Wolff was credited as one of the individuals that helped end the Cold War. While he was in Russia, he was clearing out drug rehabilitation centers, which some people don't like because those are cash cows. And at a workshop one day, he does meet and greets. After every workshop, did a meet and greet. And he felt this prick in the side of his body. Didn't think anything of it until later, started having fevers and physical things that were going on. Come to find out, he was injected with uranium, which at that time was like the preferred way to assassinate people in Russia. And over seven years, Dr. Wolf use his own modality to change the physical compound of the uranium so that it could actually be released by his body. Whereas 99.9% of people die within a year after being injected with uranium. And so after he healed himself, we were the first workshop that he taught this modality. And that was at the core. That's what drove me once I understood, because at that time, I didn't believe in God. I didn't believe in anything that I couldn't see because of what was happening in my life. But then Dr. Wolf brought the science to me. He helped me understand what's in the unseen and how it influences the way in which we operate in the world. And that was my jump off point. Ever since that workshop. I was like, I need to understand more deeply what Dr. Wolff understands. He's still my mentor to this day. And that was it. That was the catalyst.
- [14:00]
Chris
How did you guys even find each other as you're kind of crossing paths here?
- [14:04]
Jay Brown
It was through Melissa. I don't remember how she came across the workshop that he was offering in Sedona, Arizona. That's where we went for 14 days. But she was like, hey, there's this workshop and I think we should go. And from the get go, I was like, this sounds like something I need to do. Even though I'd never done anything like that before. And I feel like it was just my own soul. Like, all right, here you go. You ready for a ride? You ready for a journey? Do this.
- [14:31]
Chris
Is it safe to say that Melissa was a much more spiritual person at that point?
- [14:35]
Jay Brown
Yeah. And completely own that. And I'm so grateful for her. We're still friends now. She's remarried and has kids. But man, I'm so grateful for that moment because it was the catalyst to who I am today and what I geek out on every single day.
- [14:51]
Chris
That gives us a pretty good foundation as to who you are, what you believe, and how you know what you know. This is fascinating stuff. Now, I think you, my wife would get along really well because she's deeply interested in spiritual things. Into quantum physics, quantum entanglement, superposition. She's talking to me. All this stuff about channeling. We've gone to Sedona to see a person who channels. And so she brings the woo into my life. And I tell people I'm a very logic based person. People will often think that I'm spiritual. I'm not sure I am, but I get a lot of my woo from her. Secondhand woo, basically. I didn't inhale, but I'm around it.
- [15:25]
Jay Brown
Enough, which is interesting to me because this is what I was curious about with you. Because you seem like a deeply spiritual person. And in order to help a creative find their path and to build a business that enables them to do what they love. For me, it's like you need to understand spirituality because an individual, in order to walk their path, needs to understand how their spirit is oriented in the physical form and then how to come in alignment with that spirit in order to do the thing that is what they love. Because how do you find what it is that you love if you are not deeply connected to your spirit?
- [16:02]
Chris
So what you describe as perhaps like higher intelligence or divine intelligence. I will often talk to my wife about this. I think it's it just. To me it seems like it's common sense. And she goes, no, honey, you're not Understanding. You're tapping into self. I'm like. I'm tapping to nothing. Just seems pretty obvious is what we should be doing. But I am slowly starting to accept this idea of spirituality especially. It's a label that some people apply to me. I was hanging out with Dr. Vu, and he was saying something like, you're spiritual to me, Chris. I'm like, am I? He goes, according to my definition, yes. He goes. Spirituality is to understand, to accept, and to express your truest self. I'm like, well, if that's the definition of spirituality, heck yes, I'm all in. But when people think of spirituality, they think of something very different. They're talking about metaphysics. They're talking about different planes of existence, multiple realities, the multiverse, all these kinds of things where I'm like, I don't understand all that stuff. I'm not that curious about it. But I am very interested in expressing my truest self. And having seen the benefits of this, the amount of joy and the. The responsibility of helping other people find this, I feel like it's a very natural, intuitive thing to do. So I think there's overlap here between what you're doing and what I'm doing here, right?
- [17:16]
Jay Brown
Yeah, absolutely. And that's what is so perplexing to me right now, even to hear this, is that in order to find your true self, to me, your true self exists on another plane. And this is what I learned through Dr. Wolff, which he shared with me. Quantum physics is that we live in a multidimensional reality. There are dimensions that exist where there's a version of you who is your highest self. The full potential self is what he calls it, the most realized version of you. That version of you already exists on some other timeline. And you believe in superheroes, right? And in the superhero culture, there is this idea that there is a multiverse, and there are versions of us that exist in those multiverses. And so for me, I'm like, well, why doesn't Chris believe in this? Because he believes in. I don't understand what the hell is going on here. So for me, the way in which I step into the mindset, because mindset's important, you believe in this. You do the work to cultivate your mindset in order to step into that mindset. The one way people do it is by taking on other people's mindsets that are other human beings. That's one way. Which then you are just ultimately taking on someone else's blueprint, which means then you're not actually being Yourself. That's one path and that's the most common path. Because people don't understand and aren't aware of the fact that there is a way to develop the mindset that is truly yours. But in order for you to do that, you must connect with that fully realized version of you who's already in another dimension of reality, living the life that is the most fulfilling, the most meaningful to you. Right? So one of the things that I teach to my clients is how to connect to that version of them through visualization. They can connect with that version of them. And the way you know you've connected to that version of you is you actually feel sensation in your body. It's very somatic. The way I experience that is goosebumps. Everyone else has a different sensation and they might have also goosebumps, right? That's like your USB port connecting to your phone and you hear that ding. That sensation is the ding, meaning you've connected with that version of you. And then what happens at that point? Every time you connect to it, it sends you codes in the form of emotions, energy in motion. Energy is information. So essentially that version of you is sending you information. Well, what, what information is it sending you? It's sending you the codes of how to cultivate the mindset that you need to cultivate in this dimension of reality that you currently sit in in order to be yourself. And when you are yourself, you are then working for the economy of life, the highest and best of the planet, the health and well being of others. And when you're living with the economy of life or for the economy of life, life gives you energy, spiritual energy. And when you have that energy, you can do all things and not get burnt out. Because that's why people get burnt out, is they're trying to. They use all of the gas in their tank without actually refilling it spiritually. And that's what I believe. So that's why when I look at you and I perceive you and you're like, I don't believe in these things that your wife believes in. I'm like, how does this work? I don't understand how this, how this actually works. So please explain to me, based on everything I shared, like, how do you orient to that?
- [20:51]
Chris
Well, back when I was seeing my therapist many years ago, her name is Joan Lightfoot. And Joan said to me, chris, I'm just curious, are you anything like your wife? I said, no, we're complete opposite. She goes, interesting. See, I think we're attracted to people that are opposite. Of us because they're here to teach us a lesson or to make us aware of something. And my wife and I could not be more opposite in many, many different ways. And perhaps this is just another thing. Now, you said you believe in heroes and superheroes. I said, well, I don't know if they're real. I enjoy reading about them. I enjoy the worlds that they build, and it's fascinating to think about. Like, I enjoy science fiction too. And it's just a world. Now, my wife has a very particular perspective on this, and she thinks they're not all humans living on Earth. Some of us are hybrids or of different interdimensional beings and who have created a higher consciousness. So there are these disclosures that they're getting, therefore, they're writing not for themselves, but they're tapping into this higher intelligence, this divine intelligence, or the source code that most of us don't have access to. And these authors, these creators, these inventors, are helping to transition humankind into what the next thing might be. And so we start off with fairly light stuff like entertainment, books, movies, music, teaching us and preparing us for what is to come. And so when I talk about certain movies or comic books, this whole idea of a multiverse all of a sudden became very popular in the last 10 years, 10 years ago, Meta and all these things. And it's like, we didn't talk about any of this stuff and all of a sudden now we're talking about all the time. And if you go back and watch the Matrix, that was over two decades ago, it was already telling us, I think maybe something else, that none of this is real. This is a simulation. And my wife goes on, tell me about how the dream state is your truest self. And this physical part, it's like the exact opposite. This is the unreal part. And our subconscious astral mind, or whatever it is, is the one that's projecting into this physical part form. And she often makes fun of me. She goes, you don't understand it. You're just so three dimensional. I'm like, what? What are you talking about here? Okay, so she has a little bit sometimes the slightly arrogant high and mighty spiritual mindset, and she's constantly brow beating me that I'm just so three dimensional. Which I'm quick to remind her it's the three dimensional self, me, who works hard to pay for all this junk that you get to enjoy in your fourth dimensional self. Let me just make you aware of that. And she goes, well, honey, you're just really good at densifying. Things in the third dimension. You have mastered the third dimension and you've been rewarded for it really well. People love you. You create things and you create a lot of influence and. And there's a lot of positive feelings around that. No wonder you are so rooted in the third dimension, which I say, I'm out. I'm out. That's an album for me. I'm going to go back to the third dimension and grind away. Okay, so there's some conflict at the Doe household here as to what we believe in, what we don't believe in. But I enjoy it from the periphery. I just concern sometimes that people are not living in the moment and they're thinking about some other dimensional thing and they're not working on themselves all the time, which is something that I do well.
- [24:10]
Jay Brown
This is a great segue into a conversation about art. Okay, so I'd like to ask you, how do you apply art into your life?
- [24:22]
Chris
I would often describe to people, I am not an artist. I'm a designer. There's a big difference. A designer does things for other people. An artist does it for themselves. But more recently, I would say in the last and coincidentally, it was at a screening for Cloud Atlas with Wachowskis that Lana Wachowski had said this. And she said, art is an invitation to look at the world from a different perspective. I was like, wow, that was a really dope definition. It wasn't about form making. It wasn't about paint on canvas. It was an invitation to look at the world from a different perspective. And there's another definition a friend of mine shared with me. It says, art is when you have an emotion and someone else experiences your art and has a similar emotion. The better the art, the similar. The emotion is the bad. Art is when you have emotion. And like, no, I don't have that emotion at all. It's very different, right? And you're talking about emotion is energy and motion. So there's something there. So more recently, in the last 10 years or so, I've changed the definition for myself to say, like, I am an artist. And the way that I do art is unusual in that I express my feeling, my thinking, my perspective through popular formats on social media, YouTube, Instagram. So I write what I want, I say what I want, I do what I want in the way that I want it. And if you feel attracted to it, then you're experiencing the art with me. Now, I know some artists are like, no, that's not right. But, hey, you live with your definition. I live with mine. That's how I experience my. Express my art.
- [25:49]
Jay Brown
So it is a containment of you ultimately.
- [25:55]
Chris
So far, so good. Yes. Yeah.
- [25:57]
Jay Brown
So what's interesting is I did not identify as an artist until the end of COVID And the reason why I decided to identify as an artist is because like everyone else during COVID I was like, I have so much time to do shit, and I don't know what I should be doing with my time. So what I did was what. I am extremely passionate about my art, which is filmmaking. And so I just made film after film just for fun. And what I noticed is the mental health benefits that came with that, how I felt after doing or during engaging in my art. So I didn't think anything of it. And then I went to a place that you might be familiar with because it's located in San Jose, the Rosicrucians Museum. Are you familiar with that?
- [26:43]
Chris
I'm not.
- [26:44]
Jay Brown
Go there when you come back to San Jose Rosicrucians Museum. Now, this was a pivotal moment in. In my life recently because it helped me orient to art in a way that I believe most people don't orient to it. And as a result, they're not able to see the true value and benefit of what art provides to them, which is that at the Rosicrucian Museum, the focus is on ancient Egyptian culture. And I went into a section where they were talking about art and how the ancient Egyptians oriented to art. And what was said on this little plaque was the kings and queens during that time put artists on a pedestal. Why do they put artists on a pedestal? Because the ancient Egyptians believed in the afterlife. So how would they get the information that they needed to actually live in the afterlife? They believed that artists were the conduits to divine intelligence. And so when an artist did art, it created essentially a portal for that divine intelligence to come through. And those in close proximity to the artist or their art were able to tap into that divine intelligence, which would then tell them how to live in their afterlife. And not only that, it also told them how to govern their peoples in the third dimension that they were in, when to plant crops. And ultimately, it was a technology that I believe is what they used in order to build the pyramids and to build these things that still are a mystery to us today that we cannot explain and that we cannot even duplicate because we do not know of that technology. And I believe that that is starting to reemerge and it's going to re. Emerge to this level and degree. Well, we will understand Energy in ways that we do not understand it in this moment that will allow us to do these things that the ancient Egyptians were able to do. And this is what's going to get us out of the chaos we currently are experiencing today. And so therefore, art isn't just this thing that we experience as a pleasurable, entertaining thing when we're watching Drake perform on a stage. It is a avenue for us to connect with divine intelligence so that we can understand how to create things not only in this third dimensional reality that we live in, but also when we die, our energy doesn't die. Right? Who said that? Einstein. Like, you know, energy cannot be created nor destroyed. So where does your energy go and where do we go as human beings? And are you living just for this life or are you living for the life that you will be experiencing after this one ends? And so this has created such a huge shift in my perspective because I'm not just living for my retirement anymore. I'm living for where my energy, where my consciousness is meant to go and will go and will be determined by the karma that I create in this dimension of reality.
- [30:05]
Chris
Are you living that life? Are you on that path today?
- [30:09]
Jay Brown
Absolutely.
- [30:10]
Chris
And how do you live it to its fullest? So if you're on that path today, how do you amplify that?
- [30:17]
Jay Brown
Being myself. And when I'm saying being myself, it's not just like I'm behaving in a way that is my authentic version of me. Like that's how most people think. What it means when you're being yourself, what I believe being yourself means is that you prepare your vessel, your human body, for intelligence to move through you. And in that intelligence moving through you, it moves you in the way that is actually in alignment with your soul, which I believe is who you actually are. So when you're living at that soul level, it creates a vibe. This is what people experience when someone walks in a room and they're like, damn, like, that dude, Chris, there's something about him, I don't know what it is. And it's really what they're speaking to is that vibration of energy that moves through us when we're in alignment is higher when we're being ourselves, meaning we are authentic in the expression of that intelligence moving through and out into this dimension of reality. And so to me, that's the answer is the work that I do, the business that I create right now, isn't just to make money. It's not just to serve people. It's for me to be myself. So that energy comes through. And by doing that, I'm exemplifying and modeling what it looks like to be yourself, which I think is the greatest medicine that we can receive as human beings, which is the work that you're doing, you're just doing it differently in the way in which you're doing it. I'm like, it's not wrong, obviously. And I think you're knocking on the door and life has been kind of giving you doorways into this dimension that your wife is, is really attuned to. And for whatever reason you've just chosen not to walk through it. Which is fine and great, you know, but that's what really like, is so attractive to me and compelling to me is that you're doing this work in the way that you're doing it. But then I also think, well, then there's a limitation to that. If he hasn't walked through that door. Your desire to educate people, and this is just my opinion, your desire to educate people gets limited because you're not actually giving them the fullness of what life is actually wanting for them to receive.
- [32:40]
Chris
I had a question for you when you said something about certain kind of vibration and vibe. Vibe and vibration are obviously related words here. And when you meet someone or you see somebody, have you been able to pinpoint the characteristics of people who've got that vibe that somehow they just. You know what? There was a moment here when I was a co owner of a post production company and it was run by a woman named Tanya and we were business partners for a brief period of time and they would produce music videos for artists. And one of the guys who worked there, he's like, I've never said this by anybody because we work with lots of famous people. But he said that when Prince, when he was still alive, went to visit them, he says, I swear to you, that guy floated across the floor. I'm like, man, I wish I was there because I wanted to experience that. And people who have been around Prince, they have ways of talking about him that it's describes almost him as an other human. So in your experience, just one person, one teacher to another, taking notes. What have you been able to pinpoint as these are some of the traits of these people who are on that different frequency or on a different vibe?
- [33:49]
Jay Brown
Yeah, what is it? Number one, their ability to be present in the moment. Presence is everything that's at the highest priority of what I'm training as a skill. It's like playing basketball. You could train it as a skill. So your level of presence and the skill at which you have attained in that arena of life determines your ability to be able to receive intelligence. Meaning intuitively you will be able to tell if someone's bullshitting you, because it'll be very apparent in your body when you train yourself in this way of when someone is being inauthentic and disingenuous, which obviously is a very necessary skill in business. But even in personal relationships and friendships, which a lot of people right now feel super lonely. And we're in this loneliness epidemic. And I think a big reason for that is people have such a hard time being present in the moment because they are so busy or they have been made to believe they need to be busy because then you don't slow down enough to be able to train yourself, to be intuitively guided into whatever situation you are meant to be in. And then you're not being present. You're letting your programs drive you, your distortions drive you, which then cause you to be in situations that you say yes to, that you shouldn't be saying yes to. And then you get drained and then you can't focus. You don't have clarity downstream. There's all of these challenges that you face. So that is number one, the number one trait of an individual that is in that level of alignment, they have a high ability and skill in being present.
- [35:43]
Chris
Perfect. I want to come back to that later, but go through your list. Give me what else you got.
- [35:47]
Jay Brown
Two is their heart. The individuals that are able to keep their heart open in a world that is super chaotic. And there's a lot of challenges that we face. It's a superpower. It's an absolute superpower. And not from the sense of like they're loving people. That is a byproduct of having your heart open. But are you familiar with HeartMath?
- [36:13]
Chris
No.
- [36:15]
Jay Brown
Is an organization that's been around for 40 something years. They have been studying the science of the heart. What HeartMath studied was this concept called coherence. Or what they found from their studies and the research is this thing called coherence. Coherence being a fancy term that scientists use to describe harmony and balance. What does that mean on a physiological level? When you are in coherence, your body feels relaxed, you're calm, you're peaceful. So what happens is your nervous system sends a signal to your brain centers to open. When your brain centers open, that's where we feel this thing called being in flow. But the spiritual aspect of that is more divine. Intelligence can come through the vessel of your body. Higher state of consciousness, if you want to call it. So in order to reach that state, your heart must be incoherent or your heart must be in an open state. And so the way in which you can actually cultivate that is through your breath. So HeartMath has developed this technology where you have this little device, because I work with them on their branding and whatnot. So I got to get really familiar with their technology, if you will. So they developed this device. You clip it onto your ear, your earlobe. Your earlobe has capillaries that are connected to your heart. Okay? So it measures your ability to be in coherent states. And they sell it as this is a way to resolve your stress, which absolutely is. But what they're not telling you, because they're afraid of how people will perceive it, is that it makes you. You into a higher consciousness human being. And so that, to me is another trait, is that you're able to open your heart, which essentially means to me that you are in a coherent state, meaning you are in a higher state of consciousness. Which leads me to another question that I had for you, which is like, you are into educating, right? Your goal is to educate 1 billion people. For me, when I'm teaching someone, if they are not in this coherent state, it's almost a waste of my time. Because what happens when you teach someone when they're not in a coherent state is that all of their distortions, all of their programming is at a heightened level. So you could say all of the things that will change their life completely, but when they're not in that coherent state, it is almost as if that information just goes here and then out the other direction. So then you're not actually educating them, you're just giving them information. And that information just goes into blobs, which led me to. I don't want to help a bunch of people because a lot of people just aren't at that place yet to be able to receive the education and then actually do something with it. So to me, when you have this goal of educating 1 billion people, the chances are a high chance probability that the majority of those people will not be able to receive that education and do anything actually beneficial with it. Which means then, in my opinion, or in my observation, Chris is wasting precious life force energy teaching people that cannot actually be taught. And it's not education that will actually unlock them to being who they are meant to be. It is finding people who can develop the skill of being themselves. Meaning, again, as I said, Being connected to this divine intelligence and then the expression of that allows for other people to see what it looks like to be their authentic self, to be their full potential self. And then that is ultimately the medicine and creating the containers or spaces where people can be in close proximity to these individuals. Because that proximity through osmosis or, you know, I mean, there's so much science around this allows them to actually then come more deeply connected to who they are. Then they can be educated from that place because they'll be in higher states of consciousness to even be able to receive that education.
- [40:34]
Chris
Is there anything else that you've noticed besides being present and having an open.
- [40:38]
Jay Brown
Heart when they are doing the work transformation, they're not doing it just so they can be more productive. They're not doing it just so they can make more money, so that they can attract or acquire more of the material things. They're doing it because they actually want to be free. Free from the distortions, free from all the things that cause them to have problems in their life. Life. And so an individual who is committed to doing that work in that way, not so that they can again acquire more things, that is a prerequisite to being one of those individuals that are really what we need more of on this planet.
- [41:18]
Chris
Can you from afar observe someone and get a sense that they are hitting these three things?
- [41:25]
Jay Brown
Yes.
- [41:26]
Chris
Out of curiosity, who. Who is the most visible public figure that you can point to that is in this state? Just so I have a reference in.
- [41:34]
Jay Brown
Your mind, do you know who Amma is? The hugging saint?
- [41:38]
Chris
No.
- [41:39]
Jay Brown
This woman, bro. Like, wow, Amma, the hugging saint. She goes around the world and literally just gives people hugs. And she does it at a rate that I still to this day have no clue how she's doing this. You go into this arena essentially, or like conference areas, and she's hugging thousands of people at a time in a day or over a weekend. And she sits there from 5 o' clock in the morning until 11:12 at night, never leaving that location. I'm like, she doesn't pee. She doesn't do. I mean, like, I don't understand what she's doing, but she hugs people because they feel what I believe is themselves going into that coherent state. There are certain people, when you're in close proximity to them, they bring you up your energy. You just feel all of a sudden, like, why do I feel like, so, like jazz right now? Why do I feel energized? She is one of those energy sources that I still don't know, but I'm pretty sure that she has a high level of intelligence that's moving through her that allows her to live like your wife is saying, not as a human being, but as a spiritual being in a human body that allows her to serve at the level that she's serving.
- [43:04]
Chris
I am agreement with you in terms of the effect when we meet someone who's operating on a different level than we are. Whatever you want, words, you want to describe it, they're very attractive to us. Not because physically they're attractive, but because we're compelled almost to be around them. And we feel lighter and we feel more joy just in their presence. This energy can be transferred, I believe. And there are not that many people on earth that have this. But when we come across them, we know who they are. I think the Dalai Lama is such a person. Now, I don't know him, I don't follow him. But every time I watch people watching him, there's something about him. And this man is not rich by any means. He's not particularly good looking or attractive in the physical sense. But there's a lightness to his soul, his spirit and the wisdom and the way he sees the world with kindness and joy. That is a way that lifts other people up. So I'm there with you. That's the only person I can think of right now.
- [43:59]
Jay Brown
He was the other person that came to mind.
- [44:00]
Chris
Yeah. Now there's some charlatans out there who peddle this stuff, oh, plenty and create that feeling. But they're using it a very manipulative way. And you can see it if you're aware. Okay, let's circle back into this because this is fascinating to me. The number one thing is to be present in the moment. Being present means I'm not distracted by the past or the future. I don't have any conflicting thoughts. I'm grounded in the moment. I'm aware of my breath, my heart. I'm aware of the room, the air, the energy, the person. And there's a self awareness and awareness of others and how we commingle our space together. And I can see why you pointed this out. This is really interesting. What are the things that are preventing us from being present in the moment? Because I have lots of friends who have a hard time being present.
- [44:49]
Jay Brown
It is those distortions and programming and another way to describe being present that just came to me that I think will be helpful for all the people listening to it is there are billions and billions of bits of information flowing all around us all the time. The light that's coming through this window right now. The sound that I'm hearing, the slight drift of wind moving through the space, these are all billions and billions of bits of information that I'm perceiving through my senses. Some people say we have five senses. Some argue we have more than that. Most people, out of those billions and billions and billions of bits of information that are flowing through us, are only able to actually perceive hundreds of thousands of those bits. As you become more present, what you are essentially doing is you're able to perceive more bits of information that is flowing through you, the more information you have as a human being. Right. It's very practical, logical way of looking at it. The more bits of information you're able to perceive, the better you can be in making decisions in your life. So being present is more so about being able to perceive more bits of information that are flowing through you, which also include when words come out of people's mouth, their body language, how they blink, the smell that comes off of them. There's so many aspects of life that are in the unseen that people aren't able to perceive because they don't have the level of presence to perceive them, because they're relying more so on what they learned instead of what's actually happening in the moment to help them guide themselves in that moment. And if you're working off what you learned in in the past, you're literally working from the past, which, from that standpoint, you're already at a disadvantage.
- [46:51]
Chris
So if we're more present, we can process more bits of data that's coming to us, which gives us an inherent advantage. Because information is power. You're more attuned to what's going in the room. You can sense, like when you said, this is kind of interesting, that the more present you are, the more you're able to see people for who they really are. So your BS radar goes really. It's really attuned. So there's genuine people and disingenuous people, and you'll be able to sense them. This is one of the things I get from people who observe me. They say, it's really scary to be in front of you because I feel like you can see right through me. I'm like, because you make yourself so transparently clear, everything you do and say is betraying your inner motivations. Like, you're obviously talking to me because you want X, Y, and Z to happen. And it'd be better if you just said it instead of pretending like you don't want that so there's a vulnerability that people sense that they have to be there, otherwise I'm seeing right through them. And so that was an interesting take that I had not heard before. Connecting these two ideas of being present and being able to see others as they are, what is one or two things that we can do if we aspire to be more present? Something practical, maybe breath.
- [47:59]
Jay Brown
It's so simple. Like really the things that we get to do and have the opportunity to do to be more skillful in life, to be more successful in life, are super, super simple, starting with the breath. Most people, I don't know if you know this, there's an epidemic going on right now, which is that people, in terms of how they breathe, they have so many breathing faults. And that is a result of the Industrial revolution making it more convenient for us to eat foods that don't. We don't actually train our throats and our nasal passages and all of the aspects of the body that allow us to breathe at higher levels. So all those aspects of our system are weakened because we're eating smoothies in a day instead of meats, like our ancestors used to do, which train the mandibles, train the muscles to then function in such a way where you can get more oxygen into your body. If you do not have oxygen in your body, you're starving the body of the nutrient that is most important to your livelihood and your health and well being. We have an epidemic of sleep apnea that's happening today. People who breathe out of their mouths, which cause, I mean downstream, it causes so many problems, like dementia, for example, heart disease, another one. And so the breath is so important to coming into present moment awareness, because when you're not breathing and you're starving your heart and your body of oxygen, your body goes into shock and it starts to go into this mode of survival, literally. And when you're in survival mode, how the heck are you going to be able to be in a state of being, to perceive all of those billions and billions of bits of information that I'm speaking of. And so the very first thing that I do, actually, this is something that I think will be helpful to you. When I walk into a room and I'm doing a workshop or I'm teaching one of my clients, I stop everything, tell them to turn off their phones, and we're just going to breathe really deeply to get oxygen into the body, to get the nervous system regulated so that they feel calm and relaxed. When they're calm and relaxed and in that coherent state, they're in a higher state of consciousness. So then I'm not wasting my time sharing stuff with them that will just go into the ethers because they can be more present, take that information in and be able to apply it almost immediately. And so that's number one is you have to train your breath. You train it like you train everything else in the physical body. And this is a huge thing that I became enlightened of through a friend of mine, a client of mine who has trained people to breathe better essentially is that I as an athlete trained every other aspect of my body, but I was not training my breath. As soon as I started training my breath as a 46 year old who still plays basketball every day I'm playing later today with a bunch of guys who are in their late 20s and 30s. I can run circles around them still. That's number one.
- [51:21]
Chris
Okay, so breath work. Are we talking about breathing deeper? Wim Hof talks about this a lot, about we breathe just enough to survive, but not breathe enough of what our body needs.
- [51:31]
Jay Brown
And it's not just about deep breathing. It's about training the muscles and the aspects of your system, your breathing system. It's like your air conditioning and heating in a house. If any aspect of your air conditioning or heating in your house, the system of it is faulty. You're not going to get your heat, you're not going to get the cooling. And essentially that's what's happening to us as human beings. If there's any part of your system that is weak, it'll make it really difficult for your entire system to function normally. This is why people wake up so tired every day. Because while they're sleeping they're snoring, which means their nasal passages and you know, their throats are being blocked for them to even receive their oxygen. So then they wake up without this oxygen that they need to actually go do their work and do their everyday things. Okay, what's the next thing which then is self awareness? The next thing that other than your breath is self awareness is to understand how you are functioning on a moment to moment basis and training your ability to be more conscious of how you are functioning, meaning on the internal level, what thoughts are arising for you, how those thoughts are impacting your system. Ultimately are you feeling more stress or anxiety or are you feeling more lightness, Are you feeling more confident, Are you feeling essentially more free? So training that self awareness and presence is related to that, right? Because if you're more present, you can be more self aware. The more self aware you are, the better you'll be at being able to see your distortions that cause you to be in conflict with other people or to cause you to try to sell to other people and try to convince them that you're the one that they should be working with versus just attracting the person that is so interested in what you're doing, you don't even have to convince them to work with you. And so self awareness is that thing that needs to be trained so that an individual can understand their internal environment, which ultimately is what determines your external experience. And that's how I think, I think very esoterically, is that your external world is merely a reflection of what's happening internally. And the way in which you understand better why you are experiencing the external reality that you're experiencing is to be self aware of the internal mechanisms that cause that in the first place.
- [54:09]
Chris
Is there an exercise that you do with a group when you're getting them ready to learn something where they can become more self aware?
- [54:15]
Jay Brown
Here's one of the exercises. There's multiple. So this exercise requires a group of people to come into face to face with each other. And what I'll do with them is I'll just prompt them with certain instructions of things to do with their partner. The first thing I'll have them do is I'll have them one person is person A, that the other person is person B. And I'll say, okay, person A, I want you to talk about your first kiss. Share that with person B. Now, as person B, I want you to act really distracted. And so as person A is talking, I want you to look at your watch, scroll on your phone, look over to the side and just be completely distracted. And so then they switch so that they can both have the experience of what it's like when someone is essentially not being present with them. And then the next round, after doing that a couple times, the next round, I'll have them do the same thing. Person A, talk about what it was like being in high school for you. And person B, I want you to put both feet on the ground. I want you to stand in such a position where you are erect, where your spine is erect, and you're breathing deeply while you are gazing, not staring in the other person's eyes. I want you to gaze in the other person's eyes. And I do not want you to go off in any other direction with your eyes. And I want you to just do that as the person is talking about their high school experience. And when people, Chris, have This experience of what it's like, the contrast of this person who's completely distracted to the person who is being present with them. It allows them to remember what it means to be present and the impact that it has on their systems when someone is being present with them, which then trains them to then be present throughout a workshop or throughout any experience that they're having, which is a prerequisite to being able to receive information at the highest level so that they can take that information and do something beneficial with their lives.
- [56:25]
Chris
So that makes them aware of their lack of being in the moment, being present. And so hopefully they make a different decision. Yes, I've done this exercise once before where I ask people, and I start off, let's do little quick, like, gratitude exercise. I say a bunch of things I'm grateful for, and then I say, let's be grateful for the things that we don't normally are grateful for, like the fact that there's a roof here, that there's a table and there's carpeting, or the sound system works and go into the minute details so that you become hyper aware of where you are right now to be present in the moment. And I've only done it once before, but I try and help people figure this stuff out. Now I'm doing this all without the awareness of spirituality or anything, or presence or vibrations or divine intelligence or anything, just because I want people to know exactly where they are right now.
- [57:19]
Jay Brown
What inspired you even to do that exercise in the first place? Where did you get it from and why did you use it?
- [57:25]
Chris
Probably something I saw on Social. I think sometimes my wife's feed bleeds into mine because I get strange social posts that I'm like, I didn't search for this. I don't follow these people. How did this bleed over? So, you know, there's this theory that the computer's always listening to you all the time. And I think it must be listening. And I don't doubt that anymore because it used to be this thing of paranoia where people are like, be careful what you're saying, because next thing you know you're gonna see three ads for it. I'm like, really? Huh. Let me just think about that. But the other day I had my earpods in and I wasn't on the phone or anything. I was just in and I said something, and Siri just woke up to life and started giving me what I needed. I'm like, so Siri's been patiently waiting this entire time, supposedly forgetting what it's not supposed to know, but somehow it must be leaking. So I think when I'm talking to my wife about different ideas, and I'm not beyond saying that the law of attraction seems to be pretty true. You think about things and they. You attract them into your life. You just get more of what you see. So this comes into it, right? And when I run workshops, I'm looking from or looking at a whole bunch of different places where I think there's some interesting ways of doing a workshop that aren't typical, like improv, like some of these mindful things. So here's something that my wife told me, and I think you might get a kick out of this. She said, you know, before you do your workshop, why don't you say something like this? And I said, okay, before you say this, I need to record this. And my recorder wasn't working because we didn't have Internet. But basically it goes something like this. I want to take a moment to acknowledge that we are the accumulation of our experiences and to honor those memories and those ideas and the things that have shaped us today. To give gratitude for those things and then to also realize to hold on to these things requires a lot of energy. So for the time being, as we're about to enter into a conversation that may challenge you, I'm going to ask you, once we've acknowledged and have gratitude for these things, to set them aside temporarily, that they're perfectly safe. All these ideas, belief systems that you've accumulated over time are perfectly safe right next to you. That we set them aside for the time being so we create enough space to look at new ideas. At the end of the conversation, the talk, the workshop, you get to decide what you'd like to keep and what you want to discard. So you can go right back to it. It's still there. It's super safe. I just want to do this together. I'm like, I like this. Some kind of mental programming. And I did it a couple of times. I'm like, I don't know if it's doing anything for anybody, but I've done it. I've done it. So she says things like this to me all the time.
- [60:07]
Jay Brown
Can I give you another one?
- [60:09]
Chris
Yeah, please.
- [60:10]
Jay Brown
So I did this with executives at Airbnb, because back in the day, this is like 2016, 17, somewhere in that range, right? Had this big idea. After doing these transformational experiences for groups of people in San Diego, it's more like communities that I was in. I was like, oh, I want to make an impact on some of the biggest organizations in the world. So I post on. On Facebook, one of my friends is like, well, I have a friend. His name is Chip Conley, and he's the head of strategy at Airbnb. I'm going to introduce you. Long story short, that leads to me creating an experience for them. And this was them basically seeing if I had the chops to be able to. To do what I said I was going to do, which is to help their employees. So they send in, like, eight executives for Airbnb. And what I had to do was I only had 30 minutes to take them from where they are and give them some level of transformation to show that I had the ability to facilitate an experience that would then have an impact on their employees. And it was a setup because they have the Airbnb open, which is when host of Airbnbs from all over the world come to town for this big festival with music and all kinds of things. And the goal for Airbnb is to cultivate a better relationship between the host of Airbnbs and their employees. So they're like, well, how can you facilitate that deeper level of connection? So I was like, all right, I'm going to show you in 30. You've only given me 30 minutes. Fine, I'll take 30 minutes, and I'm going to give you an exercise. So here's the exercise. So I split it up. There were an even number of men and women, because that's what I asked for. And so I had the men side by side. They're shoulder to shoulder in a circle form, okay? Imagine that in your head, side by side, facing inward. Then I had the equal number of women, one woman standing behind each man. And what I asked the women to do is an exercise called. Called Pillow Talk. And basically what this exercise is, is the women, they would in the ear of the men in front of them, while the men were blindfolded. They're going to tell these men what makes them feel safe, what makes them feel safe in the world around other men, what makes them feel safe, just in general. And then they would go from that man that they said it in their ear, so they whispered it. No one else can hear it. And they would go to each man until they were finished saying it to all the men, and then they would switch. The men would then come to the outside, women go to the inside. And the men would share what makes them feel safe. And the beauty of this, Chris, is that, number one most people never think about in their life, what actually makes them feel safe. And this is a prerequisite to being your best self, is actually feeling safe in the world. Because if you're not feeling safe, your nervous system is dysregulated. If your nervous system is dysregulated, you're not at a level of intelligence to be able to perceive life at the highest level. So helping people become and feel safe, especially in workshops, in arenas and environments where. Where they're with other people, because most people have social anxiety, and they have social anxiety because of their past traumatic experiences of being bullied or being yelled at or whatever the thing was that then causes them to have these blocks when they come into those spaces. So then they're not being themselves, and they're not being themselves. Then they're dysregulated. It's just downstream, a lot of things happen. So this simple exercise has them bring their awareness, which is what I stated earlier, is an important part. Part of being present and to be that that individual. This simple exercise has them thinking about something that they don't usually think about. But once they put their awareness on it and then they express themselves about what makes them feel safe, what ultimately happens is they come into this place of actually feeling comfort and connected to everyone in the room because they start to realize like the thing that makes them feel safe is the same thing that other people feel safe with. And then they feel like, oh, I'm not alone in that. So there's a level of connection that happens. They feel safe because they're putting their awareness on the thing that makes them feel safe. And then the lightness in the room within several minutes was like, it's amazing every time I do that exercise. And I got hired on the spot to do the thing for Airbnb as a result of doing that. So I'd love for you to use this and just see the impact that it makes in people's lives.
- [64:56]
Chris
I can see its effectiveness. So once you do this, how do you continue on with doing what you do? So everybody whispers to each other what they need to feel safe, and then they get to choose to honor that during a workshop or learning experience so that they are feeling safe, but they're also creating safety for others, which is very important because we're not learning anything when we feel like we're in danger when we're feeling unsafe. And then you just transition to teaching what you want to teach.
- [65:21]
Jay Brown
It just depends on what the objective is of that particular workshop or particular experience. But one thing that I didn't share that is important is after they all go through this experience. There's a moment for individuals to actually share the impact of that experience. And when they share the impact of that experience, that's what creates this unified energy. Because then people will share something that another person can relate to or had an experience of. And when that happens, the connection is what ultimately is the result of that. And that feeling of connection is what ultimately leads to community when you do that over and over and over again. And this is why a lot of people say they're building communities, but they never actually build a community, because most people don't feel safe in the communities that they're in, nor are they even prepped to learn how to connect to themselves, which is a prerequisite to connecting with the other, so that community can even form out of that. And so in the workshop, when that happens, when people feel connected to one another, they're more willing to let go of those guards that cause them to be in competition with each other, because that's what we're taught to do. And instead they're in collaboration. So they are. They have more tendency to share the things that are actually helpful to the group.
- [66:39]
Chris
I like that. I'm going to try it and I will tell you how it goes.
- [66:43]
Jay Brown
Please do.
- [66:45]
Chris
Is there an even number of men and women, or does it matter?
- [66:48]
Jay Brown
It can work in so many different ways. It's usually easiest when there is an even number. But you can mix it up and just experiment, because the only thing that matters is that each person gets to interact with the other person in the group. They interact with all of them so that they can have communication. And there's something energetically that also happens that I can't explain. I just intuitively can feel that this is an aspect of being able to cultivate deeper connection amongst the group, which then leads to this unified collective energy. And that unified collective energy is the foundational piece to higher levels of consciousness and education.
- [67:28]
Chris
Yeah, I can imagine it working really well and being super powerful because it's a very intimate act to be whispering in somebody's ear. And it's probably firing off some weird little hairs inside your ear and your neck when somebody's whispering something. That's why those ASMR things work really well.
- [67:45]
Jay Brown
And it causes people to be present. One of the things that we were talking about, because when someone comes behind you, you're blindfolded, all of your sensory systems heighten, and then you drop into not what you're thinking, but you're dropping into what's going to happen around me. Right now, what is this person going to say? So now you're also activating that aspect of a human being, which is a deeper level of presence, simply just from blindfolding them. That's one of the things that I do at workshop is before people enter a space, I will blindfold every single one of them. Why do I do that? Because we all have preconceived notions. So we walk into the room and we see this guy with a Rolex watch on, this woman with the dress on, and all these things. Those preconceived notions trigger these programs within us. And then we judge people and we're doing all these things that ultimately block us. That's what it does so that we're not open human beings when we come into the space. But when you blindfold people and have them interact in that way, all those preconceived notions, most of them go away. You still have smell. So you'll have a preconceived notion based on how someone smells. But the larger piece of being able to find physically see people in a space, those are turned down. Your presence is heightened. And then you. When you interact with someone from that space, you're actually interacting with them. Not all of these preconceived notions and distortions. And that's another thing that can be done before any educating is even being done to set the tone for higher levels of education.
- [69:20]
Chris
You had challenged me a little bit. You had said, if you're not. I don't know what exact words you use. If you're not open to this other stuff, maybe you're limiting what you're doing for other people. And so I wanted to just explore that with you. What am I doing if I don't. If I'm not aware of or accepting of these other alternative ideas about spirituality.
- [69:43]
Jay Brown
So my hunch is, if you haven't opened yourself up to aspects of spirituality, then my sense is that you're not able to connect with people on that level of who they are. And so then you're giving them information that is potentially not actually for them. And most likely, as everyone usually does, is that they'll use information that worked for them or that information that have worked for other people. And so then they'll train people on that information because, look, it was successful. It made me a million dollars. It built my company. It did X, Y, and Z. So then they train. This is what I spoke into at the. During the workshop that you did. So they train people on these things, and then the people go out and A large majority of them will not be successful with the thing. That's usually what happens at the start. But those that do that are successful. They're only successful from the material and superficial level. They're not successful from the standpoint of everything that we've been talking about right now, which is training those aspects of their human being to be more present, to be more coherent, which then leads them to being more of themselves. So that's what I'm challenging ultimately, is that when you're teaching these things and you're not connected to that, then you're giving them information that may not be actually in alignment with what they are assigned to do. What their actual mission is, is. And you'll have higher levels of attunement of what actual information to give them when you are spiritually attuned, if you will. So then you're serving them with what's actually meant for them versus you're giving them what satiates their ego, which is that I need to learn how to get more customers, and Chris is really good at doing that. And so I'm going to get more customers and. And that's going to serve my fulfillment and my life and allow me to be happy. Yes. But it's only part. Only a small part of the puzzle.
- [71:47]
Chris
So I want to first acknowledge that I believe what you're saying is true. A lot of people are addicted to buying courses or showing it to workshops. They go through the motions. Very few people actually apply it. And I want to just put that aside for a second. It is in alignment with my belief, though, because I have a lot of people who. I try to get them to understand the bigger, deeper concepts so that they can then do those small things. The small things are very easy once you unlock that. But I am not trained to do that. And I feel like that's just extreme amount of energy I have to spend with people in my own personal life. When my business coach would tell me to do something, I didn't need to understand the why or be connected to anything. I just literally did what he said to do. And then I learn the why after I did the thing. So I'm guilty of doing the thing where it's like all my strategy is autobiographical. I do what has worked for me and I teach that to people. So you don't need to know what I do. You don't even need to understand the mechanics of it. You don't need to understand the deeper philosophical thing. If you just do this and you can choose any one of the things to do if you just did that, you're going to insert towards potentially being open to the much bigger thing. And although, and I agree with you again, I produce video and content for lots of people, theoretically for lots of people, but very few people actually see it and even fewer people apply it. But those numbers are still good to me because I'm still trying to reach a lot of people. So there are the people that it's intended to go to, and then there's the unintended people who benefit from it, who I would have never reached had it been a small circle of people I'm really trying to focus in on. And I do admire there's a lot of presumption here, the things that you do on a scale in which you can actively affect them. But I'm just playing a different game. Put that back to you. What do you think?
- [73:44]
Jay Brown
I love it. And wow, it's interesting because what it's inspiring me to offer to you is for these individuals, like what I believe you just shared, is that what you have been guided to do is to attract a certain group of people. And that's something that you're really good at doing because of you being who you are, you attract these people. And out of those people that you attract, there's a smaller percentage that will actually take that information, apply it. And those that do apply it, even a smaller percentage of them which actually will be successful in the sense of what you're training them to do. And so then you have impact on that level. And what I feel like is the next step in terms of this platform called the future, potentially. I don't know if this is even something that you would even consider or be open to, is for the smaller group of people that do get down to that level of the funnel of they are committed to, motivated to apply the things that are successful to some degree. Adding that dimension of all of these things that we talked about, like learning presence, learning self awareness, learning all of these aspects that you don't even have to call spiritual. It's just really being a better human being. Raising the consciousness at which you operate in so that you are actually living your mission versus following a blueprint that is meant just to enable you to acquire what you need on the physical realm. Because there's two parts to it. You need the physical, you need to make sure your bills are paid, you need to make sure you're feeding your family, you need to make sure that you're paying your car note, taxes, all of that stuff. Right. But the next level of it, and this is what I'm interested in more so of, is what I believe is going to be the future of business, which is to understand how energy works in the world and knowing how to, for lack of a better word, manipulate energy so that you can be ultimately sourced in such a way that doesn't require you to hustle your way through life that you can actually slow down so you can be with your family, you can be with yourself. You can receive the guidance that will tell you the minimal things that you need to do to create the most amount of abundance in your life. And not just material abundance, but the abundance of being a calm, being loving, being a peaceful person that does things from a place of ease instead of a person that does things from a place of pressure and overwhelm. Because that is what effs up our world is people who are trained to do it from that stressful place. And then we're training our kids to do the same thing. And so that's where I would love, if this again, is something that sounds interesting to you, is figuring out that piece where you're not the one that has to expend all of this energy to figure that piece out. I would love to work with you on how do you integrate such a thing for the people that. That are at that level. Because that's the only people that I'm really interested in because they're able to be in a space of truly being able to receive it.
- [77:08]
Chris
So this is where I think it gets real interesting that we may have similar desires to help lift humanity through varying degrees of philosophy that may overlap a lot more than it's different and our intention or focus is slightly different. You're interested in that group that's already ready to go to that next level, who are interested in the next level where I'm like, let's. Let's bring the masses and let's filter them out. Like I'm top of funnel. You're bottom of funnel. I think, to use a marketing term there. Okay, this is fascinating. So here's what I want to do first, for people who are listening to this, how do they go and find more about you and the kinds of things that you do? Let's first direct them there.
- [77:50]
Jay Brown
Yeah, just go to my website under mindframe.com but spelled M I N D F R A I M E. And my website has the information that an individual would need just to have that interaction with me and to apply to some of the workshops and programs and to do the one on one work, I mostly do one on ones. I don't do very many workshops, but that's something that I'm now kind of more interested in because it's just fun for me, really. And so that way. And then Instagram.
- [78:22]
Chris
Perfect. So mostly one on one, virtual and in person, or mostly virtual at this point?
- [78:27]
Jay Brown
Virtual and in person.
- [78:29]
Chris
Okay. And tell me a little bit, is there a story behind why the frame is spelled a little bit different, why there's an I in there?
- [78:36]
Jay Brown
Because mind frame, right. The way in which we look at the world determines ultimately the experiences that we have. So being able to frame our minds in a certain way is important. And so when I looked up mind frame without the eye, it was already taken. So I'm like, oh, put the I in there. And my partner is French. And so it kind of has this mind frame, you know, Frenchy type of feel to it. And I'm like, oh, I like that. It feels good to me.
- [79:02]
Chris
So that's fascinating. You, you really enjoy working people with people one on one. You remind me a little bit of my buddy Marshall Davis Jones, who does mind body voice. And he's like, chris, I can help people find their voice voice. And you're all, like, more interested in working with smaller groups, more intimate things which can create and admit more meaningful, deeper transformation. I'm at the broader spectrum of things, and I think there's some future where all of us can get together, where I can bring a group of people together to seek these kinds of changes and who are deeply curious about the kinds of things that you guys offer. I'm excited to tell my wife about our conversation today and to mention the name Dr. Victor Vernon. What's his wolf? I'm sure she's already reading his book or watching this because it's kind of interesting. This just sounds kind of crazy. Not that I'm resistant, but I'm a little skeptical of this other world, this metaphysical world. Right. But the more that I'm not into it, the more it's coming to me in the people that I talk to, the videos and the clips I see online, and the things my wife tells me about. So there's a convergence, I think, that's happening. With or without my will, it's going to happen. So we'll see. We'll see where I land on all this stuff.
- [80:20]
Jay Brown
Well, I would imagine that's the reason why we have interacted at the level that we did, because I almost didn't say anything at this workshop that you hosted online. And I don't know why my camera was off, but then it was off in that moment. And your moderator was like, sorry, he's moving on to the next person. But I was like, my camera's on now, so if it's open, if you're open to it, I'm here. And it happened. And I feel like that was not a coincidence, that this was meant to be in some way. And I'm really grateful to have had this conversation. I'm so lit up by it. And yeah, I would love to support you, Chris, in opening that door for fully and bringing more of the logic into it, because I feel like that's what really you need. Which is exactly what I needed from my experience with Dr. Wolf is like, no, I need to see the proof that this stuff actually works for me to receive it. Which then opened the door to all of the more woo woo stuff, because that's my partner as well. So I would love to be one of your confidants in that and then also facilitate, you know, your workshops, these experiences that we're talking about, to set people up for being educated with all of the great things that you share with them.