Podcast Summary: The Futur with Chris Do – Ep 398

What Grief Teaches Us About Love w/ Jule Kim

Date: November 15, 2025
Host: Chris Do
Guest: Jule Kim

Overview

In this unusually raw and personal episode, Chris Do sits down with his friend and coach Jule Kim to talk about grief, prompted by the recent, sudden loss of Jule’s brother. While The Futur typically focuses on design, business, and personal growth, this conversation dives headfirst into the realities of grief, family complexity, and what love really looks like when someone is gone. Together, they share perspectives, philosophical questions, and hard-won advice for anyone facing loss—now or in the future.

Key Discussion Points

Why Talk About Grief?

• Jule initiated the conversation after losing her brother suddenly ([00:43]).
• Grief is universal, yet rarely openly discussed in media or everyday conversation; everyone will encounter it at some point.
  • “I keep thinking, no person should learn these things this way... You feel like you're swept up in this hurricane, just this chaos.” (Jule, [00:43])
• Trigger warnings are given for listeners struggling with depression or recent loss ([00:00]).

Personal Experiences with Loss

• Chris reflects on limited direct experience—losing only his grandmother who lived a long, full life ([02:26]).
• Jule’s losses have included friends, pets, and now the profound loss of her brother, noting how her ability to feel and process grief has changed as she’s matured ([03:57]).
  • “Part of me thinks, well, this is the price you pay. You learn to feel more and therefore you feel more... But my God, I don’t think we talk about this particular aspect.” (Jule, [03:57])
• Jule describes the unique emptiness and pain of losing her brother, who was a mentor and caretaker as a child.
• She discusses the particular challenges of growing up in an emotionally repressive culture (tiger parenting, Asian family norms).

Family Dynamics and Estrangement

• Jule’s family was fractured, with deep-rooted dysfunction and hierarchy ([11:53]).
• Her brother was the "black sheep," estranged from parents and siblings except Jule.
• A rare visit this year reignited their bond: “It was the first time that I think we really saw each other as people” ([11:53]).
  • Memorable: Her brother crying with pride seeing her accomplishments (affirmation deck, coaching), sharing mutual vulnerabilities and secrets.
• Regret and gratitude intermingle: thankfulness for that connection, but sorrow for years not fully understood.

Logistics of Death: The Messy Side

• Legal Affairs: The crucial importance of having wills, trusts, and clear directives.
  • "If you don't have your stuff in place… It goes far beyond how will you allocate your assets, who gets what. To me, that doesn't even matter.” (Jule, [21:14])
• Medical Realities: Unexpected health issues and the lack of preparation leave families in chaos ([21:14]).
• Organ Donation: Nuanced ethical and logistical snares; being an organ donor is rare, and families must navigate the medical process, often without knowing the deceased’s true wishes ([21:14], [30:11]).
• Practical advice on emergency contacts and technology: set up "In Case of Emergency" on smartphones and share locations.
  • “Please set up emergency contacts on your phone… You don’t want what happened to my brother.” (Jule, [30:11])
• Insights on financial clarity: beneficiary designations, the pitfalls of relying only on employer life insurance, and organizing digital access ([30:11]).

Cultural & Philosophical Perspectives on Grief

• Chris and Jule discuss how cultural background shapes the way we process loss and family obligation ([19:41]).
• Chris adopts a pragmatic, almost stoic approach: “I have a fairly finite view… When I’m dead, it won’t really matter what I leave behind” ([38:55]).
• Jule highlights the importance of ritual and closure, not for the dead, but for survivors:
  • “You don’t have these rituals for the person who’s no longer here. You have them for the people who remain so that they can have closure.” (Jule, [41:19])
• Debate on legacy: Jule’s brother craved significance, while Chris focuses on the present and minimizing the burden for survivors.

The Unresolvable Questions

• The brain’s struggle to accept loss—discussed through neuroscience and personal anecdote ([41:19]):
  • “Every day, multiple times a day, I’m almost talking to my brother in my mind... Where are you? I hope you’re okay.” (Jule)
• How long and in what way should we "hold on" to someone who is gone? Is continued grief a form of honoring, or a wound we keep reopening?
  • “People will mistakenly think that is what they have to do in order to keep this person’s memory alive.” (Jule, [51:41])
• Can one ever “do enough” for a loved one who’s gone? Jule wrestles with guilt, regret, and what it means to "do everything you can" ([65:01]).

Boundaries, Self-Care, and Legacy

• Tangible friction between duty to others and duty to oneself:
  • Chris: "Do everything you can...without doing harm to yourself. That's a critical part." ([68:28])
  • Jule: “All I can say is that the only way I've been able to navigate myself through this has been acceptance.” ([72:31])
• Both discuss the fantasy of a world where everyone tended their own needs so well, truly needing no “rescue” ([74:48]).
• Dangers of making others "projects" to avoid one’s own issues; the contrast between short-term fixes (band-aids) and deeper self-work.

Practical Takeaways for Listeners

• Get legal/financial affairs in order: wills, beneficiaries, insurance, and plans for children ([25:49], [30:11]).
• Communicate wishes, prepare messages: Consider recording a video or writing letters for loved ones to find “if you’re not here one day” ([58:33]).
• Use technology proactively: ICE contacts, shared locations, accessible accounts ([30:11], [32:37]).
• Accept emotions, don’t suppress: Whether emotion comes in tidal waves or small ripples, give it space, find safe support ([83:28]).
• Reach out for help: If struggling, don't hesitate to contact crisis lines or seek therapy ([81:03]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Grief’s Education:

  • “There are so many things I’m learning… no person should learn these things this way.” — Jule ([00:43])

• Platitudes & Presence:

  • “Hopefully they will be people who have some level of awareness and don’t try to give you stupid platitudes or tell you to cheer up.” — Jule ([03:57])

• Family Estrangement and Connection:

  • “The only person that I know and love dearly… my grandmother… Her children love her, her grandchildren, great grandchildren love her… At that point we are all ready for it.” — Chris ([02:26])
  • “He was the one who taught me rules… how to handle our parents… He taught me so many things.” — Jule on her brother ([03:57])

• Rituals & Closure:

  • “You don’t have these rituals for the person who’s no longer here. You have them for the people who remain so that they can have closure.” — Jule ([41:19])

• On Legacy:

  • “He just wanted to know that he helped people, the people in his inner circle, that he helped them and that he lifted them up.” — Jule ([41:19])
  • “I have a fairly finite view on this, where I don’t think there’s an afterlife…when I’m dead, it won’t really matter what I leave behind.” — Chris ([38:55])

• Raw Regret:

  • “It will be one of the biggest regrets of my life for not standing up for him more within our family.” — Jule ([72:31])
  • “We don’t get do-overs, Jule. The past is an imagination and so is the future. All we have is right now.” — Chris ([68:28])

• Permission & Boundaries:

  • "Do everything in your power to help other people along the way without doing harm to yourself.” — Chris ([68:28])

• Chris on Death & Living Well:

  • “If I die fishing or doing the things that I love… so be it. I would rather do that than sit in a cubicle pushing paperwork." ([60:51])

• Jule’s Message to Her Brother:

  • “The one thing I would want him to know is that we loved him… The one thing you don’t want anybody in your life to go out of this world feeling is that they were unwelcome, that they were unloved.” ([85:12])

Timestamps: Important Segments

• [00:43] – Jule’s intro: sudden loss of her brother and her motivations for the episode
• [03:57] – Suppressed emotions in Asian culture & personal reflections on grief's depth
• [11:53] – Family estrangement, last visit and reconnection with her brother
• [21:14] – Practical lessons: legal, medical, and family preparedness for loss
• [30:11] – Organ donation, logistical complications, and tech tips
• [38:55] – Chris’s views on legacy, afterlife, and how to handle one’s affairs
• [41:19] – The necessity of rituals and dealing with ongoing grief
• [54:30] – Grieving on pause when taking charge for family
• [68:28] – Boundaries, self-care, and “helping without harm”
• [72:31] – Acceptance, regrets, and honesty about emotional capacity
• [81:03] – Final reflections, support for listeners in crisis
• [85:12] – Jule's final words to her brother

Tone and Takeaways

The episode is unflinchingly honest, blending Chris’s matter-of-fact, philosophical pragmatism with Jule’s emotional vulnerability and self-awareness. They mix humor (“Congratulations on being an adult” after making a will), deep cultural insight, and hard advice listeners can immediately use.

The central message—the greatest lessons of grief are not logistical, but about the necessity (and limits) of love, connection, boundaries, and the ongoing work of acceptance. The episode ends with heartfelt encouragement to prepare for the unpredictable, love fiercely now, and ask for help when you need it.

If You’re Short on Time – Top Action Items

• Talk to your loved ones about your wishes now—don’t leave decisions to chance.
• Get your legal, financial, and digital affairs in order.
• Set up emergency contacts and explain your plans to those you trust.
• Support those grieving with presence, not platitudes.
• Forgive yourself for what you cannot change—accept and move forward.
• If you're struggling, reach out (e.g., 988 Crisis Lifeline in the US).

In Chris’s words:
"The world is better with you in it… Somebody in the world cares deeply about you and we would all miss you if you were gone." ([81:03])