If I Wanted To Scale A Service Business In 2026, Here's What I'd Do | Ep 941

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Game with Alex Hormozi

Episode: If I Wanted To Scale A Service Business In 2026, Here's What I'd Do | Ep 999
Date: February 3, 2026
Host: Alex Hormozi
Guests: Kyle & Ariel (Couplepreneurs)

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Overview

In this episode, Alex Hormozi consults with Kyle and Ariel, founders of Couplepreneurs—a business helping entrepreneurial couples increase business performance and enrich their relationships. With annual revenue of $480k but struggling with high customer acquisition costs and time-draining service delivery, Kyle and Ariel seek Alex’s expertise on how to scale more profitably and sustainably. Alex guides them through rethinking their offers, optimizing delivery, and revamping customer acquisition—using his characteristic blend of sharp insight, analogies, and actionable tactics.

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Key Discussions and Insights

1. Diagnosing the Service Business Bottleneck

• Time constraint: Kyle and Ariel are maxed out on delivery, especially with “unlimited access” via Slack that drains their availability (02:50).
• High variable delivery: Custom actions plans and high-touch support balloon fulfillment hours, limiting scalability (02:27, 04:28).
• Cash flow & customer acquisition: Their Facebook challenge funnels generate leads but are expensive (~$19k per challenge), with slow payback and falling attendance rates (06:02).

2. Evaluating the Current Offers

• Two Program Structure:
  • Rise Together Mentorship: $5k/year (or $500/mo), weekly group coaching calls + Facebook group + “date night challenge.”
  • CouplePreneur Accelerator: $25k/year (or $2,500/mo), high-touch, custom plan, quarterly 2-on-2 strategy calls, Slack access, and events (01:24–04:02).
• “Unlimited Slack” as a problem: Alex flags unrestricted Slack access as the top issue limiting scale and causing burnout (02:52, 04:28).
• Customer retention tie-in: Couples love gamified “date night challenges,” which drive engagement more than group calls (03:44–03:50).

Alex (02:52): "Ding, ding, ding. We have problem number one — they've given unlimited, unfettered, unrestrained access to them personally, which makes it very hard to actually run a business."

3. Offer Reengineering: Less Is More

• Trimming the offer: Alex advocates paring down deliverables to only what’s truly valued—ex: removing Slack, reducing group calls, keeping only what's essential (11:56–14:28).
• High-value elements: Quarterly strategy calls, deep-dive onboarding, and especially live in-person "getaway" events are perceived as most valuable.
• Repackaged premium: Proposes just two high-value in-person events per year, deep onboarding, and 1:4 strategy calls to both cut delivery time and add perceived value (12:29–13:08).
• Simplicity > abundance: Complexity in offers dilutes results and complicates scaling; “value per bonus” should be high (13:18).

Alex (13:18): “Simplicity is the ultimate in business. Simplicity makes for simpler marketing, simpler selling, simpler delivery. But people want to overcomplicate things.”

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4. Breaking Through Capacity Ceilings

• Moving from 1:1 to 1:4 (small group): Key capacity lever is shifting calls from 1:1 to 1:4 (small group), letting them support ~150 clients instead of being capped at ~60 (16:09).
• Scalability framework: Raises, “You can: raise price, change delivery ratio, productize, or hire”—they lean toward increasing group ratio (16:39–17:43).
• Warning about hiring coaches: Alex cautions against rushing to hire junior coaches, as it dilutes their “X factor” and often fails at scale (18:05–19:50).

Alex (18:08): “Most coaching businesses fail at scale… if your X factor is easy to teach, it’s not valuable. The business you’ve built is a recruiting, training, and culture business.”

5. Customer Acquisition & Funnel Optimization

• Date Night as a front-end funnel: Alex proposes replacing the 5-day challenge with a 4-hour “date night”—matching their brand, boosting show-up rates, and making pitching natural (08:26–09:28, 24:03–25:04).
• Cash-flow boosting tactics:
  • Take a larger initial payment (e.g., 9k up front) before starting delivery
  • Offer a $2,500 rebate for submitting a testimonial video to generate ad creative (27:13–27:36)
• Advertising advice: Use best performing organic content as ad creative, run 100+ static images, slice up podcast appearances, and test video even with higher volatility (29:32–30:51).
• Lead gen detail: Despite best practice, their FB lead forms outperform full funnels for now—so Hormozi recommends sticking with what works until it doesn't (31:46–32:25).

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6. Renewal, Retention, and Upsells

• Events as renewal drivers: Position in-person getaways as moments clients will remember and make them the backbone for driving renewals & upsells (12:29–12:54, 35:17–36:37).
• Fast-action bonuses: Offer incentives (first-class tickets to events, $5k off, etc.) to drive same-day renewals (40:00–40:33).
• Sunsetting low-ticket: Gradually retire the $5k/year offer, letting only the high-value, scalable structure remain (39:40).

7. Mindset Shifts: Beliefs That Block Scale

• Letting go of “key man” risk: Focus on building deep value and high touch for as long as possible, then revisit team scaling later (22:49).
• Why give less access: Framing for removing all-you-can-eat support—less is often better, so clients can focus and own decisions (43:50–45:13).
• Perceived value: Give only what’s truly wanted, not more features—a gym analogy: people only use 1-2 things but cancel because they “aren’t using everything.” (47:42–48:42).

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Alex Hormozi (02:52):
  “They have given unlimited, unfettered, unrestrained access to them personally, which makes it very hard to actually run a business.”

• Alex Hormozi (13:18):
  “Simplicity is the ultimate in business. Simplicity makes for simpler marketing, simpler selling, simpler delivery. But complexity always rears its head.”

• Alex Hormozi (18:08):
  “Most coaching businesses fail at scale…if your X factor is easy to teach, it’s not valuable.”

• Kyle (19:36):
  “When he did the whole Gatorade analogy, that was very powerful because we don’t want to dilute the value of what we offer.”

• Alex Hormozi (43:50):
  “If I’m going to work with someone, I’m not going to be like, hey, hit me up whenever. That doesn’t serve you…if every single thing, you just outsource your decision making to me, which is not a good life for me or you.”

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Memorable Strategic Moments & Timestamps

• Offer trim & stack process (Partially: 10:05–11:56):
  Alex applies his “trim and stack” process: list all resources, then ruthlessly cut what doesn’t drive value.
• Group ratio as scale lever (15:32–16:09):
  Model out client cap by changing call structure from 1:1 to 1:4.
• Date night funnel breakthrough (08:26–09:28, 24:03–25:04):
  Suggests making “date night” the signature top-of-funnel event to drive both romance and conversion.
• Cash-flow hack: pay up front or no delivery (25:50–26:50)
• Creative ad machine model (27:51–28:51):
  • Use client-submitted date night videos as both testimonials and ad content, creating a self-sustaining marketing engine.
• Gym membership analogy (47:42–48:42):
  Explains that offering more does not always increase customer’s perceived value.
• Renewals at events (35:44–36:37, 40:00–40:33):
  Close renewals in person, incentivize fast action.

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Major Takeaways & Action Steps

Hormozi’s scaling prescription for Couplepreneurs:

1. Combine programs into one high-ticket offer ($25-30k/year):
   • Deep dive onboarding (one-on-four small group), two live retreats/year, small group quarterly calls—removing unlimited Slack and excessive group calls.
2. Adopt a “Date Night” front-end event funnel:
   • Replace multi-day challenge with a large, fun, value-packed date night to drive better attendance and boost conversions.
3. Boost ad creative output and cash flow:
   • Repurpose best organic/podcast content for ads.
   • Incentivize rapid client testimonials as ad content (rebate for video submission).
   • Expand static image use; test video more aggressively.
   • Require higher initial payments (e.g., first quarter paid up front).
4. Drive renewals at live events with compelling incentives:
   • Use in-person moments to pitch renewals and tie-in powerful bonuses.
5. Mindset: Embrace simplicity and proactively shape beliefs:
   • Keep offers lean and focused on actual value.
   • Remove “always-on” support under the pretense of better results.
   • Don’t apologize for value-delivery model shifts—frame them as improvements.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:50] – Diagnosing unlimited Slack as scalability roadblock.
• [04:28] – Breakdown of current high-touch and low-touch offers.
• [07:53] – Reviewing funnel and acquisition metrics.
• [13:18] – The case for offer simplicity.
• [16:09] – Capacity expansion through small-group delivery.
• [18:08] – The “coaching business scale” warning.
• [24:03] – Rethinking the challenge funnel: the “date night” event.
• [27:13] – Client rebate for testimonial videos.
• [31:46] – Facebook ads lead form vs. funnel debate.
• [35:17] – Renewals at in-person events.
• [40:00] – Fast action renewal incentives.
• [43:50] – Framing reduced support as empowering for clients.
• [47:42] – Gym membership “usage gap” analogy for retention.
• [51:01] – Announcing new delivery model as an upgrade, not a downgrade.

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Episode Flow

Hormozi establishes rapport and diagnoses the business before dissecting current offers and customer acquisition, then methodically rebuilds an offer and marketing model primed for scale. He continually frames adjustments as value-enhancing, not cost-cutting, and reframes “less support” as high-leverage guidance. Throughout, Alex relentlessly simplifies, focusing on customer love for “date nights,” capacity levers through small group delivery, and keeping the couple as the irreplaceable “X factor” of the business.

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This episode is packed with frameworks, analogies, and specific tactics for service entrepreneurs at a scaling plateau. It spotlights how to move from time-and-touch exhausting models to lean, high-margin growth—without sacrificing results, and while amplifying customer enthusiasm and lifetime value.

Transcript

[Alex Hormozi]

This is Kyle and Ariel, a couple who runs a business that helps other couples who run businesses. They currently do about $480,000 per year, but they're stressed because it costs too much money to acquire new customers and they're maxed out on time. I'm Alex Hormozy. I own acquisition.com it's a portfolio of companies that generate $250 million in aggregate revenue per year. And I just have to know a little bit about the couplepreneur scenario since I started acquisition.com and gym launch with my wife Layla. So I figured they got to fix their offer to make it more valuable to their customers and make it more scalable so that they're not responding to individual text messages 24 hours a day. Dum dum dum dum.

[Ariel]

Hi, Sharks.

[Alex Hormozi]

What's up?

[Kyle]

Hi, my name is Kyle. And I'm Ariel and we are the founders of Couplepreneurs. Over the last 12 months, we've generated about 480k in revenue, 206k in profit, which takes us to about 43% profit margins.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, so who do you help?

[Kyle]

We help entrepreneur couples. So these are couples who either run businesses together or couples where each partner owns their own individual business. Typically, the businesses we work with do about 150k annually minimum. And their primary desires are to make more money in business, to work better together as a couple, and to free up more time for each other and their family.

[Alex Hormozi]

Do you know who's the one who tends to be attracted to the message? Is it the female or the male?

[Ariel]

Usually the woman. Yes, for sure.

[Alex Hormozi]

Interesting. Oh, yeah, I figured. So how do you help them?

[Ariel]

We help the couple grow businesses as a couple as efficiently as possible. So we do this with two offers. The first is what we call the Rise Together mentorship. It's a 12 month program that consists of weekly group coaching calls. And this, this program is really focused on helping the couple work better together and just improve their working dynamic. Our second offer is called the CouplePreneur Accelerator. This is also a 12 month program, but it's much higher touch and the main focus of that program is developing a business growth plan for the couple that's based on their business model, their strengths together as well as their schedule, and then helping them and coaching them through the implementation process. We do also have annual live in person events. Our next one's actually coming up on April 10th and 11th of this year.

[Alex Hormozi]

What's that included with?

[Ariel]

So we invite all of our clients to that, but we also sell tickets to it as well.

[Alex Hormozi]

Interesting. And do you use that as one of the bonuses for both levels?

[Ariel]

Yes, 100%.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

It's a passive incentive. It's an incentive. Yep. Interesting.

[Kyle]

Okay, for offer number two, the CouplePreneur Accelerator, we customize an action plan based on the couple's schedule, the business model that they want to approach as a couple. So we're heavily customizing an action plan on the front end for offer two.

[Alex Hormozi]

How long does that take?

[Ariel]

About a total of four to six hours. To go through everything and then do a call with them?

[Kyle]

Yeah. And then the other time constraint and offer number two is the fact that they have access to us in slack. Like, periodically throughout the week?

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, periodically. What does that mean?

[Kyle]

That means at any point, they can.

[Alex Hormozi]

Ask us to make sure that we clear on that.

[Ariel]

Yeah, we respond. We tell them we'll respond within 24 to 48 hours. But they do have daily access to us.

[Alex Hormozi]

You're slacking all day?

[Ariel]

Yeah, pretty much.

[Alex Hormozi]

Ding, ding, ding. We have problem number one, which is that they have given unlimited, unfettered, unrestrained access to them personally, which makes it very hard to actually run a business. So maybe we might be able to sell people something they still find just as valuable that they're not going to use all day, all the time. How do you make money?

[Kyle]

The rise Together mentorship is $5,000 if paid in full, or 12 installments of $500 a month. For that, the couples get weekly group coaching calls with Ariel and myself and the rest of the community.

[Alex Hormozi]

What's the split?

[Kyle]

Oh, it's about 50. 50. We also record those calls as well. So we'll take the call recordings, we'll upload them into a training portal where the couples can watch a replay, and they can get access to other templates and cheat sheets as well. We have a private Facebook group for accountability based on the steps that we give the couples per week. And we also do these fun things called quarterly date night challenges. This is where we incentivize the couple to go on date night per week.

[Alex Hormozi]

Do people like that? Oh, they love it.

[Kyle]

It's like their favorite part about it.

[Ariel]

The date night challenge is probably, like, the number one thing that keeps people buying from it.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, we're gonna talk about that. So with this cheaper one, basically, it's just a weekly call.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Ariel]

Yes.

[Alex Hormozi]

That's what they get. Yeah.

[Ariel]

The Facebook group's mostly community, and then our customer service person holds them accountable.

[Alex Hormozi]

Let's start with the second one.

[Kyle]

We do the quarterly date night challenges in both programs, but we also do a lot more in the couplepreneur accelerator. So that's 25k paid in full. $2,500 a month if they choose the payment plan over 12 months. And that includes quarterly two on two private strategy calls where we map out their action plan. It also includes weekly small group coaching calls which are mostly just Q and A based. And we also hold them accountable to their weekly priorities. Inside of Slack. This is also where they could ask us questions.

[Alex Hormozi]

If you eliminated Slack, how much time would you give back?

[Kyle]

Probably what, 40% of our time?

[Alex Hormozi]

Jesus. It's also the cost of disruption.

[Ariel]

I will say though, Slack is usually people's favorite thing. Cause it's like having us in their back pocket.

[Kyle]

I like where you're going with this though.

[Alex Hormozi]

We're gonna take some axes out.

[Kyle]

Music to my axe.

[Ariel]

Love it.

[Alex Hormozi]

They made the mistake of running out of time on their high touch thing and then making a low touch thing. And the cost to our car customers for the low touch thing was the same as the high touch thing, which made all their economics of the business stopped working. And so the real constraint they had originally in the business was that they were supply constrained. And so rather than solve the supply constraint, they basically just built a whole other product. What they probably should have done is just say, I wonder if we could sell the same thing without all of the demand on the backside for our time. If we did that, we could sell three times as many people. So cool do that. If you were to talk to my team, you would know that the number one question I ask when they just vomit a whole bunch of information on me is I just say, what problem are we solving? When they decided to start this other product, they might not have been clear about the problem they were solving or asked the second question, which is, can we just solve this problem in another way that doesn't include us starting an entirely new business, an entirely new acquisition strategy, making another product. And the answer is yes. So how do you get customers?

[Ariel]

So we use a challenge funnel, which means we use Facebook ads. We run to a five day free virtual challenge that we host inside of a Facebook group. And then we on that challenge, we do teaching, training, Q and A, and then we lead to a sales funnel.

[Alex Hormozi]

How long is each of the sessions?

[Ariel]

One hour.

[Alex Hormozi]

And what's the drop off between day one and day two?

[Ariel]

On average we go from about 9% down to 4 to 5%.

[Alex Hormozi]

So you lose half between day one and day two. Okay, yeah. And you're getting only 9% of people to show up to day one.

[Ariel]

Yes. Okay, so we'll do about six of those challenges per year, and our average ad spend per challenge is about 19,440. We do also get some occasional sales from some other places, one of which is guesting on other people's podcasts. We also have a setter on our team who will reach out to people via social media, messenger and book calls for us. And then we host our annual in person events, which some sales can come from.

[Alex Hormozi]

What percentage come from top versus bottom?

[Ariel]

I'd say 90 to 95%.

[Kyle]

We really would love to get Alex's feedback on this challenge funnel because we spend a lot of money on these challenges. Sometimes they make money, but other times we'll lose money and have to spend months recouping the costs.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, so what are the problems?

[Ariel]

So we have three primary problems. Our first is our cash flow cycle, which means it can sometimes take months for us to make back the money that we spend on new customer acquisition tough. The second big problem is just improving overall conversion. We've recently noticed some drop off in attendees for our five day challenges, which are our main way of generating new leads and new sales. Our last big problem is just our own time constraint. We are almost at max capacity for delivering on our services just due to the amount of customization that's involved. Fixing these problems matters a lot to us because we went through what we call the anti honeymoon stage when we first got married, which is where we were trying to figure out how to be business owners, but also still a married couple at the same time. So being able to reach other couples and help them sidestep some of the issues that we went through is really important to us.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, so what's sales velocity? So how many sell a month?

[Kyle]

So we do these challenges every two months and this is what a typical challenge will look like. We'll generate about 511 leads and or registrants for the challenge. And the average challenge attendees are 26. So 26 out of the 511 will actually show up to the live sessions each day. Out of that, we will typically book 12 sales calls. We'll hold 10 and we'll close six sales. And currently, right now, between both of our programs, we're working with 42 couples and we've only had four clients churn over the last 12 months. And that's really just due to payment issues.

[Alex Hormozi]

So right now the company is y'. All. Yes, Zuck. Yeah. You have a CSP on the back and you have a Setter on the front.

[Ariel]

Exactly. Yep.

[Alex Hormozi]

What other stuff you got? Anything else?

[Kyle]

Because we just use Facebook ads to generate leads and sales in 2024. Here are the total numbers for the Facebook ads. There's obviously a lot of numbers here, but some of the numbers that really stand out to us is the extremely high cost per average attendee at $815 and our average attendee show up rate of 5.25%. That being said, on the plus side, if people show up, they have a 49% chance of booking a sales call with us. That's why the average attendee to sales call book ratio is 49%.

[Alex Hormozi]

I just. I feel like we're gonna be able to fix this, but I think it's gonna be really elegant and it'll probably grow the company a lot and make you a lot more money. There's a version of the business that I like that I think would make this great. The fact that you like the date night and everybody likes the date night. Instead of doing a five day challenge, just do it a four hour date night and crush the full five. Four hours in one pitch. You get twice as many people there and probably even more will show because it's a date night and you can still provide all the value you normally do and then just close.

[Kyle]

So frame it like couples are coming together for a date night. You actually probably break a record around that too. Like in the ads say, we're gonna do the world's biggest date night.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. Okay, cool. I like it. But the thing is that, like, we actually have to solve this back to front. So I do think that's a better way to convert. And I'll get into the tactics around that. But, like, it's kind of a blah offer now, the way that you guys deliver and all that stuff. Fine. People like it, but I'm just looking at, like, what am I getting here? I'm not like, super stoked about it. I'd rather solve for, like, we have this other thing that makes us a ton of money. How can we pare that down so that we can still sell that at that price point but have five or ten times the capacity? We're gonna go deep dive on the offer. So the back end, high ticket offer. So right now we have slack but calls, right? Two on two.

[Kyle]

Yeah. Quarterly. Two. One, two.

[Alex Hormozi]

Quarterly. Okay, and how long is that?

[Kyle]

The first one is 90 minutes. Every other one is one hour.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, got it. What else is there? Weekly group calls, weekly groove. Okay, that's not that bad. All right, what else is there?

[Ariel]

I would say in addition, whatever.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. There's the modules, etc.

[Ariel]

Yeah, online modules. And then in addition to the two on two quarterly calls, the first one we do a deep dive looking at their.

[Alex Hormozi]

And that's the four to six hour thing.

[Ariel]

Yes. Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

So we'll go deep dive. So that feels like a separate deliverable to me.

[Ariel]

Yeah. So the first quarterly call is longer and it takes more prep time.

[Alex Hormozi]

So I'll just say this times three and then that one times one.

[Ariel]

Yep.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay. This is current. Yep. There's also this other piece because you have this bonus of in person, right? Yes. Yeah. So what I'm doing here is before I dive into recreating an offer, I'm actually going through the process, live with them, which is I want to understand all the resources and assets that we have at our disposal in the offers book. I cover this in creating your grand Islam offer. Part two, the trim and stack. The first part is listing out all the stuff out and then the second part is, okay, now we have all these list of things. How are we going to cut it and combine it and package it so that it's the leanest and the most valuable? Because fundamentally we don't want to just like offer a ton of stuff. We want to offer the few things that people really want and then just remove everything else. So this is the $100 million scaling roadmap and they are at stage three stabilize. So they have a very small team one to four. And let me read some of the constraint they're probably dealing with. People aren't buying fast enough the cash conversion cycle, so they're not getting paid fast enough. They're wasting time with bad leads. They don't have enough time to talk to good leads. They're not sure what to fix. Everything's going wrong. Right. And customers feel lost. Now this one, maybe you don't feel as much on the customer service side, but they've made up for that by just providing full time slack access at all times to them. So really it's their feeling lost. We can fix the thing that they complain about most from a product perspective, which is this is partially they're complaining about it, but it's also from a customer angle of what are all the things that we provide the most value and then recombining those to make the most valuable offer. Decide on basic qualifications. Right. So they had this cheaper thing. It's like, well, who do we really want to serve? Let's make a product for them, not a product for Everyone, which then ends up serving for no one. By the way, if you want to know where you're at on this scaling roadmap, it goes from zero employees all the way to 500 plus. And we break it down by eight functions of product, marketing, sales, customer service, IT recruiting, human resources, and finance, where people get stuck there and how to get through it. This is my gift to you. It's absolutely free. You can go to acquisition.com roadmap and if you want my team to actually help you with this for your business, you can schedule a call with them and they'll dive into the business. And if it makes sense to invite you out, we will. And maybe we'll see you here in Vegas. I think you're messing this one up. I think this is one of the most valuable things to do. You could functionally charge $25,000 a and have two getaways a year guaranteed. And so you could say like, think about this as marriage insurance. We're gonna do all the other stuff. But you guarantee yourself that you've two amazing times per year. And when you look back on your life, most of the months kind of blend together. It's just the little spikes that are the moments that you remember. That's what we're gonna help you build.

[Ariel]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

I think we do 2x per year in person. And I think you should position it like getaway rather than conference. Yeah, Okay. I like that. And also you guys will have a great time to getaway too. So like, it'll be fun for you. So I would. What I would do if I were you guys is I would go do the whole experience with them, whatever, two days and then stay two days after for you guys and unwind. We won't take it. And what do you think you're gonna do at the in person event when.

[Kyle]

They'Re all there at the moment just planning on doing renewal sales.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yes. Yeah, good. That's what I would.

[Kyle]

That's what you would recommend. Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

That's how we're gonna do it. And so basically we have two in person events. We're eliminating slack, that's for sure. Screw slack and feel so good. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. I. You feel lighter. I would almost rather you get rid of those.

[Ariel]

The weekly group calls.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. Because I don't think anyone's like, I'm staying for the group calls. You're right. They probably stay for this.

[Kyle]

You're right. Because when we survey our clients, the weekly group calls are usually the least favorite.

[Alex Hormozi]

Let me tell you a Secret. What a lot of people do is that they will try and add as much as they possibly can. The goal is value per bonus. Basically, the way that I think about it is each thing we add on its own should be worth the price of the whole thing. Simplicity is the ultimate in business. Simplicity makes for simpler marketing, it makes for simpler selling. It makes for simpler delivery. But the problem is that complexity always rears its head. People want to overcomplicate things. You want to have four or five benefits in one ad because you think they're all important, but the reality is that you weren't able to prioritize the one that mattered most for the specific avatar that you're trying to advertise to. We could include 100 things, but there's typically only one thing that gets someone over the hump. People decide to buy because they hear something like, ooh, that's the one, and then they're in. And so we just want to make sure that we make those details as compelling as humanly possible and then limit the details that we choose to talk about. To quote Jack Dorsey, founder of Twitter, make all the details perfect. Limit the number of details. The main value adds are, we're going to meet with you. We're going to do a deep dive. You're going to come out twice a year. Yeah. Love it. If you want to have the group, I would say this is, like, for y', all, but, like, this is not support. This is not like, you tag me in every single post kind of thing. This is. If you want to connect each other, then this is the way, basically, you're more curating the experience than you are doing a whole bunch of stuff in there. Okay. So I think we go deep dive, which is fundamentally just onboarding. So you'd want to do that anyways, right? Two and two quarterly times three. And then you have the group, which is not good. Be a lot. Okay, so if we're looking at the total delivery time, this is 60. So this is three hours, right? Let's just call this six. So it's nine hours. And then you have the two events a year. So basically, let's just call it 10 plus. This is fixed between everybody. 10 hours per couple is the cost. You make 25,000. And so realistically, the cap is going to be these two. This is now the new cap of the business, not all this other stuff. So how many quarterly calls can you take?

[Kyle]

First initial strategy session does take, you.

[Alex Hormozi]

Know, considerable amount of time, but after.

[Kyle]

That, I think we could do five per day.

[Alex Hormozi]

You wouldn't do five per day. You wouldn't do it like you can do it physically. I'm saying, what are you willing to do? I know what you can do physically.

[Ariel]

I'd say probably two per week.

[Alex Hormozi]

He's at five a day. Two a week. I'm like, okay, so we have a 12x differential between you guys.

[Ariel]

Maybe five per week.

[Kyle]

Yeah, five per week.

[Alex Hormozi]

And you do one day where you just do five.

[Kyle]

Yeah, exactly.

[Ariel]

Yeah, we try to match them.

[Alex Hormozi]

So that means that you'd max out at 60 because you're doing 12 weeks one a quarter times five. So that max you out to 60 clients. I don't love that. Yeah, I'd love to be higher than that. How do we get you to 150 clients? That's what I'd like to reverse engineer. Because if we get you to 150 at 25, let's call it 30, because a lot of people are gonna be on payment plans. Then that takes you to four and a half, which is 10 times what you're currently making. Or 11, which feels chill. Yeah, on my scale of chill, it's chill.

[Kyle]

Yeah, I mean, it's pretty chill.

[Alex Hormozi]

So 12 weeks, if we could get to 15 a week. Now, again, this is what we have to deliver on. We could do a smaller group of four and have it be 90 minutes, because then on Monday you could do four 90s, six hours and see 24. And 24 times 12 is even more than that. When you are supply constrained, you can either raise the price so fewer people buy and the people who buy you get paid more for, or you change the ratio of delivery, meaning you go from one on one to one on four, to one on six, to one, to many, or you productize or you hire people. So we have a lot of different ways that we can solve a supply constraint. We're going to change what we deliver and make it into a product. We're going to change what we deliver slightly by delivering it to more people at once. We're going to keep it the same number of people, but we're going to raise the price. We make more per person or we're just going to hire somebody else to do it. All of these are potential solutions, but I'm going back and forth with them to figure out which one makes the most sense. They were a little bit cash constrained, and I didn't get the impression they wanted to have a big team. The next one is the price. Now, they were already struggling to sell the higher ticket thing. And so, like, I Don't think we have room to go three or four times as high because that's what we would need to do in order to make a pricing move that would make sense. So this one's out and then we have the productizing. Now they already did a productized version but they can't sell it at the price of that. They're selling their expensive thing. So this one's out. Now this is basically the only thing that's left on the map that I see as a high likelihood solution for where they're at right now. Which is why I recommend.

[Kyle]

The other factor I guess to consider is our dream state of this business wouldn't necessarily involve us being so heavily involved in.

[Alex Hormozi]

It's only one day a week.

[Kyle]

True, that's true.

[Ariel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

I'm working on one day a week here.

[Kyle]

Yeah, yeah, no, I like, I want.

[Alex Hormozi]

To make millions of dollars and work one day. I'm like, okay, that's fair, that's fair.

[Ariel]

Yeah. Our goal is eventually to be able to have coaches that can deliver on it as well.

[Alex Hormozi]

I will be super candid with you.

[Kyle]

Please.

[Alex Hormozi]

Most coaching businesses fail at scale and it's because if you have some unique skill set or your personality, whatever it is like your X factor, if it's easy to teach, it's not valuable. And in order to have coaches who come in who can deliver the same level of value, it's going to be hard to teach. So either you're going to have the issue of like I'm going to bring someone in and they can walk with the customers or more likely you'll bring someone in, train them up in a weekend and they'll be like, this is now the person doing delivery. Now then you're gonna claim it's your system and all the other stuff. I've never seen really anyone get above 30ish million a year in that space. And so the people who get above that typically have a more distributed model. So what I mean is this is Yalls X factor. So let's say we have all these little shot glasses here and on the other side we have full, full same size bottles. Okay, scenario one, I just pour this into the shot glasses. Okay, scenario two, I pour it into the big glasses. Then I take this and fill it up to the top so that it's the same, same amount what you end up having. This is the coaching model. You're gonna get the same amount of time you're gonna with this person. They're not as good as me. It's gonna be really diluted X factor versus would you rather just have a little bit less? But you have the full me, the full X factor. And in my opinion, this model still is better because then you just keep getting better. Now if you're like, okay, well, we don't want to be key, man. I'd rather get you to 4 million a year and then we can deal with that problem.

[Kyle]

When he did the whole Gatorade analogy, that was very powerful because we don't want to dilute the value of what we offer. And for many coaching businesses, you feel like you have to just by hiring other coaches to coach for you. So that was a really powerful paradigm shift.

[Alex Hormozi]

Every one of these solutions that I just outlined have businesses that have succeeded with them. The question is, which problem would you rather solve? If you decide to do the hiring path, then you're going to build basically a firm of partners to do this service for other people. The problem is most people who are in this world, who are influencers or creators, whatever, they have some sort of X factor and people come for them. And so when they try and hire staff, they just say, oh, here's my buddy. I spent a day with him to try and teach him my method, and now he's going to deliver it. If this is such a complex method, if you can train somebody up on it in a day or two, it's probably not that complex. Or it is that complex, and you're just saying it's not that complex and just putting them in front of customers because you don't want to do it anymore, which is laziness. And also, you're probably not paying them what would be required to get somebody who's actually as good as you or better. And so the business you built here is a recruiting, training and culture business. If you want to have a productized version of this, then you're going to be leaning heavier into marketing and sales because the delivery is going to be more or less automated or productized. This allows you to scale more easily from an acquisition perspective. But then you got to learn how to market and sell at an even higher level. Then we have these two. So if you're a pricing, then what you're really going to get into is the branding business, right? Because in order for them to command super premium prices, let's imagine they only have 100 customers. They say, we never want to get over 100 customers and we want to grow this business. It's like, well, then the only thing we can do is just keep jacking price in this scenario. But the only way we're going to get people to continue to buy is that we have to reinforce this brand loop where every time we have these hundred customers, their lives improve by so much. They create these amazing stories for us. They bring their friends. And then over time, because we have supply and demand, right, As a nice little X factor here, the price would continue to go up as demand increased, right? But we're keeping supply fixed. Now. The ratio, which is what I recommended for them, I want to say it kicks the can down the road. And what I mean by that is they're just going to get better and better just because you get more practice if you're the person who's got the X factor. And so they're going to get more practice. So even though people are going to get shot glasses of them, it's going to be more and more concentrated shot glasses, which means they can keep dividing it over and over again as they get better and better. And so the value proportion actually can stay fixed as they improve. Ultimate version of this is, look at Tony Robbins business, right? We got one guy and he's on stage in front of 10,000 people and they all pay $5,000 to be there because he can command that price because he's so good on stage that people are still thrilled even though they're in an auditorium of a zillion people. In the ratio business, the business that you're really building there is they're just continuing to do what they're doing and they're just going to be able to drive more and more profit in the business.

[Kyle]

And we personally enjoy the events probably the most out of everything else we do in the business.

[Alex Hormozi]

This would probably be my view. My V2 would be, can we just sell three a year? And then I would just basically position it as, listen, right now you're not spending the money because, and you know you should. This will guarantee that you have it. And also you split up the day so it's 50, 50. So it's like we're going to be doing some stuff together, but like it's also yalls vacation, so take the day. The thing is, like, it's okay because you block like the values. You made them block the time and come out and do it. Make a cool experience.

[Ariel]

When Alex said don't worry about Key Man Risk, we felt a sense of relief because we felt like we had to just take what we do and go multiply it with other people. But realizing that we can just not have to worry about that right now. And focus on what it is that we do best and grow the business in that way. Makes it feel a lot more simple and allows us to again, just do what we love to do and serve the people that we love to serve.

[Alex Hormozi]

I think this is view one, but let's solve the money thing here. If you're willing to do two days a week, then that would get you to 120. So that takes you to 3ish million.

[Kyle]

That's better than five days a week.

[Alex Hormozi]

At what we're currently at. Yeah, yeah, love that for you. Okay, so this to me is this is no longer the back end offer. This is just the offer. That's thing one, by the way.

[Kyle]

For the record, we do like serving our clients, so it's not like they're bothering us.

[Alex Hormozi]

Of course, of course, of course. Yeah, clients, they're very happy to deliver and they're very grateful. And congratulations for everybody who got the $5,000 thing. It will never be sold again. The second thing is going to be our acquisition model. Okay, so you guys are doing the five day challenge. So if I wanted to make the lowest risk bet, my lowest risk bet would be run the playback again and now sell the thing that you should have been selling this whole time.

[Kyle]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay. If I wanted to be spicy, which, why not? My spicy version of this is you run date night and you make it two to four hours and then you just put pitch right at the end. So the reason that I'm a big believer in this is that there's a certain amount of information that someone is that is required for someone to make a decision. We can spread that in five hours over five days or we can do one five hour session. If I had to pick between the two, I'd rather do the five hour session. And main reason is because like I can weave a lot more things in. I get like you're kind of like in state, you're in flow, it's top of mind. You're like there rather than having to remember each time to come back to this thing. And so you'd also have twice as many people that you'd be pitching to if your position is a date night. No one's, oh, I'm going to do this date night for 60 minutes. It's not date night. So I think having it be extended, you already have permission based on the nature of what a date night normally is. So this all makes sense. This is your activity for the evening. We got you covered. This has already been demonstrated across lots of industries that just super Long single day or half day events can be incredibly compelling for selling very high ticket things. When someone gets three or four hours with you in person, they get a pretty decent vibe about you and your expertise and whether they want to make a buying process decision.

[Kyle]

So they would actually do a real date night engine. Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

And we're just talking through different.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. And I think you do it. I'm like, this would be like break all the Internet marketing rules, but you do it like a Friday night. Yeah. Now if that's hard, then it's like you could test it and be like, it's Thursday night. But from all the math that I've seen, doesn't really matter what day you run it. So you can believe whatever narrative you want, but at the end of the day, I don't think it's going to matter. Okay. If we to do it tomorrow, I would say just run the play you already know it's already built out and then just offer the better offer. So what we need to do here, and this is actually super common, a lot of businesses you have to pull cash flow forward. So number one, one of my preferred methods is you can do layaway. Right. Which is you can pay on whatever plan you want, but you won't get delivery until you pay X amount. Like until you pay a third. We don't start. But you can pay, you can make it as flexible as you want. But a lot of people are like, I'll just pay a third now and then start the payments.

[Ariel]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

And then that way you can pull out more of that cash up front.

[Kyle]

So we wouldn't even start the service until we get to that.

[Alex Hormozi]

Got it.

[Kyle]

But they can still at least put their.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yes, you could do an onboarding call or something like that if you want to. Just to be like, hey, congratulations, we're excited to have you. You know why I do this community. But we're not going to start doing the deep dives and all that stuff until, until you, until you pay. The way that that would help solve the cash flow issue is the idea is that most people would be like, screw it, I'll just prepay the first quarter now. That's kind of option A. And I would just recommend doing ask for the quarter up front, which is basically the way that works is it's 9k down. And the reason we do this is because the deep dive we do is really intense and it costs us the most out of everything that we're going to provide for you. All right. In terms of our time, basically, you Sell that. And then I would just immediately start the payments, whatever it is, 2,500 or $3,000 per month after that. But I would start immediately. It's not like you pay 9. Don't have to pay. And then you have the next thing because then you're going to have a churn. Okay. The thing here is then you downsell layaway. So if they're like, I can't pay the 9k now, no worries. Just make 3 payments and then we'll kick you off. And that's cool because you're also probably gonna come up soon to one of the event dates. Cool. You're preparing this. You're gonna be doing a vacation anyways. Might as well just like think about like a savings. I don't think we need to complicate this any more than that. Basically, the fast action bonus is you start now and we do the deep dive immediately and you'll qualify to come to our event. So if we have an event in two months, everybody who prepays can attend and gets the deep dive. Yeah. And you're always gonna have one within four months anyways. If you're doing three a year.

[Ariel]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay.

[Kyle]

So the only way they come to the event or get the D dive.

[Alex Hormozi]

They got it.

[Kyle]

At least 1k is paid.

[Alex Hormozi]

Got it. Okay. Next thing is we're gonna go acquisition. All right, let's do ads. Right now what I want you to do is also offer a $2,500 rebate. As soon as they sign on and do their first date night, they make a video of them doing the date night and what the experience was like. And so then you can use all those for ads on the front end.

[Kyle]

Oh, I love that.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. So you give them a rebate. So it's like it's 32, 5, but you get $2,500 back as soon as you send us the video. And it's just. And it's. And you obviously give us permission to use it. Don't talk about money. Just talk about the experience. Talk what it's like. Okay.

[Kyle]

And you would add the rebate costs on top of the.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. And then you take it. Got it.

[Kyle]

I got it.

[Alex Hormozi]

I'm a big believer in making ad machines in every business, which is like, I want to have the normal function of the business create the marketing for the business. I want a fusion reactor. I want something that can just self sustain. I don't want it to have inputs that's always me to drive the business forward. And so whenever I can, wherever I can In a business, I want to create some way of documenting stories, narratives, emotions, outcomes from customers. Think about how it works in sequence. One person advertises, that's me, that starts the engine. Customer comes in, customer has great experience. That experience gets documented, that experience gets advertised. That experience from that customer gets the next customer. So the only thing that's really required to get the business started is me just doing one big marketing push. And then after that, the snowball rolls on its own. Okay, so if we're looking at these ads, do you guys ever run video?

[Ariel]

We've tried, but it hasn't performed as well for us.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. So I'll tell you a secret about video. Video has higher volatility than images do. But your best ads will be video, and your worst ads will be video. Oh, fascinating. So video outperforms images if they're good videos. Images outperform videos if they're bad. You guys make content, right?

[Ariel]

Yes.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, so can you pull up their Instagram real quick? What's your best one recently?

[Kyle]

The one to the top, right?

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, there we go.

[Kyle]

To any man who's married to a strong woman, here's a new lesson I've learned about masculinity. Your wife's strength does not have to compete with your strength. It actually complements your strength. The strength of your wife does not threaten your manhood at all. In fact, the more you encourage her to flourish in the areas that God has gifted her in, the healthier your relationship will become. So when you lead from this place, a place of collaboration rather than a place of competition, you actually become the strong man that you and she wanted you to be in the first place.

[Alex Hormozi]

Love this. So now all we do is take that run as an ad and then put a 5 second CTA at the end. My wife and I've been working together for this many years. If you're a couple of an entrepreneur and this resonated with you, come attend. We're doing a four hour date night. It's gonna be awesome. Like, we're trying to do the world's biggest night. Either way, it's gonna be a blast. It's absolutely free. Just put in information, we'll send you a couple texts to remind you and we'll see you there.

[Kyle]

Perfect.

[Ariel]

Love it.

[Kyle]

Love that.

[Alex Hormozi]

What I want you to do is, because you guys are cash constrained right now, is how many pieces of content are you putting out a week?

[Ariel]

Like two.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, so what I want you to do is get to at least one a day.

[Ariel]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

You're gonna use that as your free testing ground, you're gonna take your highest performing clips and then run those ads and just slice a CTA at the end.

[Kyle]

Got it?

[Ariel]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay. Okay, Perfect. So we're gonna. We're gonna repurpose best performers. Did you get any business from that? No. Is there any post that you've made that has gotten business?

[Kyle]

The closest we got to that was a podcast interview that we did where the podcast hosts themselves loved us so much, they hired us to go some.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, got it. So what I would also do is I want you to take that podcast and slice it up and run the moments as both organic and ads. I love that. That's the ad side that I would do. Now obviously, I think you should also make normal ads following the standard advertising process that we outline in our lovely leads book. You can still do the images. I would just run a. A ton more of them. Like how many images were you running for this?

[Kyle]

Normal campaigns we do probably like 12 to 16.

[Alex Hormozi]

So I would probably bump the N on that to like 100 on images. Just. Cause like you just have no idea. Literally just open up your iPhone. You have probably a gazillion images of each other and hanging out. Literally run all of them. Okay.

[Ariel]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

Just all of them on the image side. And then this with the organic. That will give you a good amount on camera roll. There we go. Okay, so I think if we just did that, you'll probably be good to go.

[Kyle]

Same ad copy, that is.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. Your highest perform. The copy usually needs to change very little. I'll tell you a secret. For school. Last year, we spent tens of millions of dollars on ads and we never changed the copy once. Wow.

[Ariel]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

Once the copy's right, you just keep changing the creative because it's like this is the message that resonates. Now we just need to get it in front of different people in different ways. Different hooks in terms of the creative, but like the actual words on the copy more. Let's do funnel, which is not really existing. Okay. So I do think that part of the reason that yalls show up rate is so low is because you don't actually have a page.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

So lead form, opt ins tend to be the lowest quality overall. I would bet that you could probably get somewhere in the order of 25% if you ran them to a funnel. Now that being said, you'll get cheaper opt ins here, but you won't necessarily get cheaper sales because you track cpa.

[Kyle]

Right.

[Alex Hormozi]

Have you ever done it to a funnel or no?

[Kyle]

Yeah, actually the Reason why we currently run lead form ads is because when we tracked the CPA all the way to the back end, the leads that opted in through the lead form were the lower cpa.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay.

[Kyle]

And higher qualified too, which is weird. Like, even our agency, we've never seen this, but okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

It's not common. Was that one campaign that you did that on?

[Kyle]

No, we split tested it for a year.

[Alex Hormozi]

No way.

[Kyle]

Because I even thought I was like, this makes no sense.

[Alex Hormozi]

It doesn't make any sense. Well, then I'm not going to mess with it. At the end of the day, the actual percentage shows and things like that don't actually matter. Only thing that matters is cost to acquire. And would we be okay with a $1,500 CAC on a $2,500 thing? Yes. Would it be cool with a $2,500 CAC on a $2500? Yeah, sure. And now that we have the 9K, we're going to get way more of those up front. So you hear the common theme between probably a lot of these different kind of episodes that I run with business owners is that there's many things that could potentially improve in the business, but there's usually one or two that are the big levers on growth. And for Kyle and Ariel, it's the offer and the creative. So make a better offer, make better creative. Better creative gets us better leads. Better offer gets more than to buy. We sing happily ever after as Butterworth draws my bath. For now, I'll say this. I don't want you to change it. I want you to stick with what we have. Make better ads, have a superior offer. The main test that we have to basically make the decision on which we will by the end of this is do we want to run the same play again or do you want to run the four hour date night?

[Kyle]

It's hard because we've been just following, here's what works. Let's just keep doing what works until it stops working. And now we're like, well, shoot.

[Alex Hormozi]

Well, it has stopped working. Yeah, exactly. Now, I'll bet you that the messaging of the five days probably converts because your conversion has been fine. It's been like attendance and stuff. And so for me, I'm like, okay, well, I do think that there's probably way more people running five day challenge stuff. And so that's fairly typical. If you were to run it as a date night, I think that's a unique angle that is unique to your business. You can still do the same amount of kind of presentation time as you normally would. Probably slice some stuff out too, because you don't have to do intro outro every time. So it probably is three hours of quality content out of five. So that's like, great. And then you can just do a wrap up pitch at the end. If you change nothing, you'd have twice as many people there for the pitch. If the date night converts better than the challenge, then it'd be even more.

[Kyle]

How much of this is like a date night fun activity versus, like what we do during the challenge, which is. Is very like tactical, heavy objection, handling sales, you know, all that kind of stuff.

[Alex Hormozi]

Well, you still provide value in the front, of course. Right. So just do that. Okay. And you can probably reframe the front a little bit. Literally just the introduction and the rest of it can probably be the same. If I started and I was like, hey, everybody, welcome to date night. If you're anything like us, date night is not business or fun. It's both. And so we're gonna do that together. All right, so let's start. And then you're in. Right. So it's. I think. Yeah, There you go. We've just merged it now. Perfect.

[Kyle]

Okay, that's a great.

[Alex Hormozi]

You literally just need a frame.

[Kyle]

That's it.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. So what's your upsell percentage from the in person events that you have now?

[Ariel]

So our in person events, we've held two so far. Last year was the first time we had the lower ticket offer.

[Kyle]

We focus way too much on production and provided value and like barely pitched.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yes.

[Kyle]

So we weren't that intentional. So therefore I think we only sold one of the higher tier program at our last event, which covered the cost, but it'd be great to like do a lot more.

[Alex Hormozi]

How many people would you close in general? Out of the people we attended, it.

[Kyle]

Would be like 1 out of 50.

[Alex Hormozi]

No, but what about to renew on the lower ticket thing?

[Kyle]

We didn't.

[Alex Hormozi]

Oh, only one person total. Yeah. No. Okay. You definitely didn't pitch. Okay, got it.

[Kyle]

We didn't pitch. Yeah, no, it was. We went too soft. And I know you say that you're gonna pitch, pitch. If you're not, don't. We screwed that up.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. So how many days is the event? Two. All right, so number five is me renewable. So this is me just planning ahead. If you just do the stuff we were talking about, like, the business will probably already triple or more. Not triple. Sorry. If it's 3 million, then it would more than that. Like 7 or 8x. Okay, so you've got day one, you got day two. Intro is going to matter a lot. It's one of the most important things of an event. It's just blowing people away. Be on top of it. It's a lot of little details.

[Ariel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Greet them by name. Have specific facts about their business, about their marriage that you bring up to each person. I would try and have a list of people that you can tag so that. Do you have help for these events?

[Ariel]

Yes.

[Alex Hormozi]

Take the list of people who are going to be there. Break them into different rosters. Be like, you're on A, you're on B, you're on C, you're on D. You can give different lanyard colors so that they can basically know, oh, this is green, this is blue, this is yellow, this is orange. And then you're in charge of yellows, you're in charge of reds, you're in charge of oranges. Make sure that you tag all. And they have a little list and they have the two facts they're going to bring up to them. They're like, damn, these people are on top of it. And so that's the in between. So you'll have your intro, you'll have meet one, meet two, and then you have your break M3, M4, and then you'll probably have your pitch. And then you'll have another Intro Again, sorry, M1, M2. And then you'll have lunch. And then I think here is where you do a soft re pitch. And then you do M3, M4, and then wrap. That makes sense.

[Kyle]

Makes a lot of sense.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. I would say here I would do a dinner of some sort. People who buy. Get to go to dinner with you guys. So reserve a nice place. So that gives them immediate reason. And then here, this can typically be shorter. So this can usually be like 15 to 30 minutes. That's just. Hey, my team tells me X, Y and Z from yesterday, so I wanted to handle some of those things up front for you, But I'm going to try and frame this in a way that's still valuable, and so it'll help you with your business too.

[Ariel]

Okay.

[Kyle]

Yeah, I like that.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

So teach while simultaneously overcoming objections. Got it. And that's what the re pitch is.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yep.

[Kyle]

Now, for this pitch, would you do, like, the full hour?

[Alex Hormozi]

You don't typically need to. Oh, okay, Cool. I'm a big believer in, like, just provide value. I think stories and narratives are really powerful here. Frameworks, things like that. And then basically at the end, I think just having, like, if today was Valuable. Do you mind if I just tell you a little bit more about what we do? Sure. And then you're talking 15 minutes, stacking close. That's it. You basically just make the offer, let them know how to get it, call to action, and then come to dinner.

[Kyle]

With us for everybody that does it.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yep.

[Kyle]

That's a huge relief because in my mind, I'm like, every single thing we do from start to finish, we have to structure in a way to, like, lead to it.

[Alex Hormozi]

But for right now, you haven't sold anyone. And so we're gonna start with just selling and having a clear offer and then just asking again, and we're gonna leave it there for now.

[Kyle]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

Of course, if you weave in some, like, in the examples that you use in each of the meaty sessions, you're like, hey, like, you want to weave in the different avatars, both psychographic in terms of what are the belief systems that these people have? And then also what are the typical problems that they're dealing with, because that'll be different too. And I'll bet you of the three, if I had to pick for diversity, that would be the one I would want to make sure I had the most diversity in. The biggest one is going to be the diversity of objections. These ones, their business was crushing it, but the marriage wasn't. The other ones, their marriage was crushing it with their business is actually causing problems, because if they just had that right, they'd be good to go. Other ones, let's talk about kids, basically hitting the different things that someone's gonna bring up.

[Ariel]

Okay, okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

We all have unspoken, limiting beliefs, and the difficulty is recognizing them. I think this is in my book, my favorite quote of all time that will likely be on my tombstone, which is the value equation, which is we question all of our beliefs except for the ones that we really believe in and those we never think of to question. And so I think it's such a powerful statement because we are limited by invisible chains of our own making. And so many times in my life I've been living inside of a cage that I didn't even know existed. And so they are enslaved to this business right now because of their beliefs about the fact that it must be this way or that there is no possible alternative reality in which they could sell people and help them in a non one on one scenario. And all I wanted to do is just bring in evidence from other scenarios where people get more help from being in larger groups, not one on one, so that people could not be ashamed. But these Blocks exist all over the business. It could just be from the price or no one's gonna like these ads or no one's gonna wanna buy this offer. It's like you don't know until you try it. And if you're not sure, just look around. Because if you're in a tremendous amount of pain, then you should be incredibly motivated to disprove the belief that you have that there's a way to solve this problem.

[Ariel]

Now, when you say renewal, are we renewing into the lower tier offer or.

[Alex Hormozi]

Should we try to. No, I think you should only ascend for the existing. And I would just let them know, hey, we're sunsetting this and so you guys bought a year or whatever it is. And so the nice thing is that it's super light on delivery for you guys anyway, so it's not a huge deal and I would sunset it. So those are the big five. Cool. So I'm gonna recap them for you and then we'll put this in above.

[Kyle]

Quick question too. On the renewals, like, would you do a specific incentive?

[Alex Hormozi]

Incentive for renewal? Would I have an incentive for immediate renewal? Yes. So I'll give you a couple different ones that you could think of that you might think is more compelling or less. You could say, hey, for everyone who renews today, we'll buy you first class tickets to the next event or all three events next year. Love that. I actually like it because the experience really does start when you leave home. And so it's like you've got champagne on the plane, you're getting mindset. And so what's the total net cost on that? It's like six grand maybe. So you can keep the price the same and you can add that in. Or you could say a very classic fast action bonus or something like that. Just knock five grand off the price for immediate renewals.

[Kyle]

Okay, so renewals for the high ticket and then lower tickets is where sunsetting would just be ascension.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay. In between right now, add in the quarterly and the deep dive. Okay. For now.

[Kyle]

And people will pay 25k for that, for sure.

[Alex Hormozi]

I mean, the only other things are modules. They're not using calls they don't care about.

[Kyle]

They do love the slack though. You know, they gotta ask us a question.

[Alex Hormozi]

Well, the thing is, is that there's things that people might love after they buy, and then there's things that people will love before they buy. I'll give you an example. So at Planet Fitness, they have like a pizza night once a week. I think it's Tuesday or whatever. It's like, you can get pizza. The reason they do it is because they're like, listen, at the very least, you can come get pizza here, and it's gonna be cheaper than this membership. You just get free pizza. So it gets people to buy, but then people. No one even eats the pizza because they don't go to the gym, because they feel guilty. But the thing is, this is a great little shtick. The reason someone buys isn't always necessarily the reason someone stays. Now, if people haven't been ascending, then the slack is. Takes up your time, but it's not causing them to buy again.

[Kyle]

True. Yeah, true.

[Alex Hormozi]

It's just a time suck.

[Kyle]

So from the outside looking in, the slack isn't necessarily a selling point as much as it is a something people like afterwards.

[Alex Hormozi]

The reality of it is that you have reinforced them messaging you all day. True. So they message you, and then the latency between you responding then reinforces them doing that, which means the grand. Probably not super active. Your slack messages are super active.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

And so it's like, we want to redirect all of that activity to the community, because think about all the value that lives in all your slacks right now. It's to no one. So if someone's going to ask you a question, I'll answer for everybody, because that question is not one of a kind. Now, the other piece that I would break that you pierced the veil on is we set this up with one on one two days a week. You guys are Christian, right? Okay. The amount of church relationship communities where it's 10 people in a room, 20 people, 20 couples in a room, and they get up and they talk. You have aa super personal. People get up in front. I think it's a belief that you have. But, like, couples problems are couples problems. So here I was, hidden her from behind. They're not gonna. They're just gonna be like, we're having trouble in bed. And everyone knows what it means. Because the flip side of how I would sell it is, listen, one of the hardest parts of being a couple preneur is it's lonely. And so wouldn't it be nice to know that the struggles that you have are struggles that other people share too? And to be clear, I would use the exact examples. I'm not gonna be saying, like, what are the positions you're rotating through? Like, have you brought a friend in? I'm kidding. I'm saying, like. Like, you're. It's like, all right, well, she threw her wig on, you know, but like, no one's like clutch my pearls, they're married.

[Ariel]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Do whatever you want.

[Kyle]

Right.

[Alex Hormozi]

And so I think it's a belief thing. Yeah. And it's like you're not talking erectile dysfunction, you're just talking about the relationship. Yeah. And those are gonna be commonalities and I think that long term they'll probably feel more kinship for the idea that they're struggling from the same business issues. And the business advice you give helps everybody. The relationship advice you give helps everybody. Now there is a ratio where it stops being small group and becomes one to many.

[Ariel]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

So basically after like I would say 7ish, it's now not enough individual time. I think if you guys did one on four and he did the four 90 minute sessions.

[Ariel]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

I think you'd be fine. It's harder to go from one on one to one to many. So if you're going to change it, I would just change. Okay. What do you guys think?

[Ariel]

If we are currently doing like weekly group calls and slack, there's almost a constant flow of question answering and things like that. If we're just going to quarterly calls and the events, there is none of that. It's almost just the experience of coming together at the events and then getting the strategy each quarter. Do you think there would be any pushback from people not being able to ask questions on the strategy that we map out every quarter?

[Alex Hormozi]

Maybe. Okay, comma, how much does it matter? And so I think again, a lot of this comes down to framing. And so if I'm going to work with someone, for example, I'm not going to be like, hey, hit me up whenever. Because the thing is, that doesn't serve you because that means that I'm making all your decisions for you, which means that you never learn. You also never learn how to prioritize. If every single thing, you just outsource your decision making to me, which is not a good life for me or you.

[Kyle]

And that has happened.

[Alex Hormozi]

Of course it has. And so the thinking process that I would have is by doing it this way, you'll be fully focused on the fewest things that matter most. Anyone can give you more things to do. It's about doing the fewest things that make the most impact just as much as is for the relationship, as much as it is for the business. Because like your wife, I could probably give this list of 10 things. But if you just said thank you for doing the dishes every single day and maybe pick up the kids once a week, get her some flowers, if you just do those three things, the marriage is fixed. Let's just think about how do we remove everything that's preventing you from doing that. So I think a lot of it, it would shift subtly in of terms of how you're presenting it in the pitch. But I would call that out if you're the type of person who's like, hey, I want someone to tell me exactly what to say to my wife every single day. Here's the thing. I'm not married to your wife. You married your wife. And so if I were to do that, I would be doing you a disservice because you're never gonna learn. I'm just gonna be chatgpt for you for relationships. And you know what you should use ChatGPT for? It's not bad, these day to day things. What we're here for is for the big decisions. Yeah. That's where we provide the most value.

[Kyle]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

Because if you look back on your life, there's a handful of decisions that created the life you have. And we want to make the next handful of decisions exactly what they should be to get to the life you want.

[Kyle]

That's fantastic framing, because I've even told her too, that my brain feels like chatgpt because I'm basically answering questions all day long.

[Alex Hormozi]

Terrible to live.

[Kyle]

Yeah, it absolutely is. Along the same lines of that though, the best case studies we've had of couples, and we're very blessed to say that we have 20 videos of just amazing case studies of people making more money and going on for date nights. I don't know if that would have been possible had we not held them accountable to taking the steps and stay focused. Because between one quarter to the next, I mean, you know how much can shift in people's shift priorities. People get distracted, whatever. So how do we mitigate that part?

[Alex Hormozi]

So I'll give you escape valve and then another frame. Okay, so escape valve, if you want. Which is who here has seen or heard of who Wants to Be a Millionaire? So everybody had three lifelines. One of them was call friend. One was move the statistical. So for us, you've got four, nine one one calls or two, if it's a 911 emergency, then by all means, let us know and we'll figure it out. But that way it's on an escalation basis. Again, the goal here isn't for them to be dependent on you. The goal is for them to learn the skills so that they can get to where they want to go. Anyone can give you a lot of things to do. But that assumes unlimited resources, which you do not have. And so, realistically, all of you guys here, let's just be honest, you're gonna dedicate maybe 5% of your time to this. So we want to crush that 5%. So we get the 80%, 180% benefit from it. Yeah, that's the value strategy. Yeah. Yeah.

[Kyle]

And that makes 100% sense, too, as to why people aren't renewing because they feel like they haven't used all of the resources. So it's actually hurting us both angles. Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Of course, Planet Fitness figured this out, but there was this huge amount of big health clubs, right? And they had racquetball courts, they had swimming, they had basketball, they had weights, they had cardio. But when they did their research, they found out that 80% of people just used the cardio mostly, and then a little bit of weights. And so they said, cool, we'll just cater to the 80% and we'll dramatically be able to reduce our cost to open and be able to reduce the price and transfer that to the customer. And so what happens is when health clubs are charging $59 a month, $89 a month, people are still only using those two things for. For the most part. And so we think, oh, I'm going to add more stuff to provide more value. But all you do is create a larger discrepancy between consumption and lack of consumption. Look at all the stuff I'm not using, which means I'm not getting my money's worth. Rather than thinking I'm getting all this for $59, they're just thinking, I'm only using 20% of my $59. And so it doesn't matter what the price point is. People still cancel because they just think that they're not using as much as they should.

[Kyle]

100%.

[Alex Hormozi]

So that's why, when I went back to the bonuses, we want to make sure that the things that we're putting there are absolutely going to be used because they're valuable.

[Kyle]

Yes.

[Ariel]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

Anyone who's watching this, who has a product, you need to pay attention to this. So let's say that you have some sort of mini stack. I like the gym membership because it's the simplest example. Right? You've got a spa and you've got a pool, and you've got basketball court, you've got tennis, you've got weights, you've got cardio. There's all these things that we have for one low price of. Of 29, 99, whatever it is right. The problem is most people are only gonna use one of these things throughout their entire career. And so you might think, oh, I'm giving them all this value for $29. But what they're seeing is that they're not using this. And so this is now waste instead of even added value. And so it's much better to just give somebody 100% of what the only thing they want and charge them appropriately for it, because now they're getting 100% of what they desire.

[Ariel]

I know this obviously doesn't fix the straight problem of our delivery, but what do you think about doing, like, small group monthly instead of quarterly? So that way it's like setting the plan for the month, they execute on it, and doing it every month with.

[Alex Hormozi]

Four couples, you would have the same exact thing as the one on one situation.

[Ariel]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

It's easier to change a cadence than it is to change a ratio.

[Ariel]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

So if you wanted to start with, we do monthly, and it's one on four shells called. But you wouldn't do it, though. I just prefer to think like it forces you, and it forces them to prioritize.

[Kyle]

Yeah, I do like that.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

And for them to make decisions not reliable.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yes. Yeah. Come to us with the big decisions that are gonna affect your marriage and business. And our deep dive in the beginning that we start with is we're gonna be identifying what those levers are. That's what we want to talk about. What you're having for dinner on Tuesday, what cool date idea that you're gonna have. You've got resources for that stuff. You don't need me to tell you you should do clay pottery or wine and paint night or whatever you want to do. You don't need me for that. You could Google it. The things that I can actually help you with are gonna be the rare things that'll have the bigger, biggest impact.

[Kyle]

On the life, and that's the Highest leverage.

[Alex Hormozi]

Use 100% for everybody.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

And I'd be like. Because, listen, if we were to do it where it was one on one and it was every single week, we'd have to charge $200,000 for it. It wouldn't make sense. So this still gets you the 80, 20 of that, and then you get all your time back.

[Kyle]

I'm loving this.

[Ariel]

Yeah. No, I do, too.

[Kyle]

When Alex clarified exactly what we need to do, I feel like that's going to lead to even more bliss in our relationship because I'm no longer going to be tied to a lot of client delivery, even Though we love our clients, it's going to free up more time for us, and it creates a much simpler path to hit our goals as a couple.

[Ariel]

Yeah. And it allows us to feel like we can move, lock and step in the same direction towards the goal. And it's a lot of what we help our clients do, so it's cool.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Ariel]

What would you do with the people that are currently in that offer? Would you continue to serve them the same way? Would you tell them that we're making an adjustment? Like, how would you transition that?

[Alex Hormozi]

Here's the great news. Because you currently don't renew anyone.

[Kyle]

Just wait.

[Alex Hormozi]

Well, the thing is that, like, it doesn't actually matter that much. So you can continue to see it, like, always keep your commitments. Yes. You made a promise, you keep it done. But in terms of, hey, this is what we're doing going forward, then that's. It's a new agreement.

[Ariel]

Yep.

[Alex Hormozi]

New terms, New agreement. Yeah. Believe it or not, we've actually got completely stacked because we're good. And so because of that, we still want to help you. And we think this actually is. And here's the thing, and this is where I think people mess this up. They will try. They will apologize essentially for saying, hey, we were one on one. Now we're doing one on four. It's hard. We're just. No, this is better.

[Ariel]

Yes.

[Alex Hormozi]

This isn't as good. It's better. It's better because you're going to have other people. You'll hear somebody else's question be like, ooh, that's a good one. I should have thought of that. Or I didn't even think of that. Because the thing is that somebody might have already solved your problem and they're on to the next problem. And this also is why we don't need to meet as often, because you're going to hear a higher variety of questions being answered so that when you do have the next problem a month later, you're like, oh, Sandy. I remember what he said to Sandy. I'm just going to do that.

[Kyle]

That makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

All right, let's recap this. B number one new back end, slash front end offer is going to be 25k slash 30k. If they do a payment plan, we're going to do layaway as a downsell with three months, which is 9K offer up front. You can also do 10 if you feel like it. And that's gonna come with two times per year in person, one on four quarterly. You can do one deep dive. One on one. That's fine. So it's like we're gonna do the deep dive one on one with you, and then you're gonna get in the group. Okay, got it. One on one, deep dive and the group. All right. Second thing is we're gonna test date night angle. So we're just gonna take your five day, put it vertical, eliminate the transitions, and then crush it. Number three, ads. So I'm gonna split this into two, because I think so we basically more organic daily, which goes into ads +CTA at the end, 400 images from your camera roll. And then for renewal, you're gonna set it up and actually make the offer at in person. And the easiest way to do that is just asking when they're gonna come back. That's it. This is the next date. Let's do it. So I think that this is already a 5x on your price because you're gonna probably convert about the same amount of people, because believe it or not, fun fact. What matters more for the conversion is the first payment. So $5,000. This is $9,000. Really? You're gonna be positioning as 2,500 to 3,000.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

So the cash up front is gonna be more or less the same. This is me just trying to get you to believe. All right, first, I like this angle. This is the big kind of like unknown. This could be like a 1 to 4x. Okay. Because if this crushes, which I really feel like it would like, you might just have a whole new way of selling in the industry. If I were to enter this industry, I would probably enter this way. Yeah.

[Ariel]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

Organic daily. This will just improve your ads. So this could be an easy 1.5x, maybe 2x if we're lucky, in terms of decreasing CAC. And then the renewal is just going to extend out the LTV long term. So that's going to be year two, year three, where this is going to matter. Gotcha. Okay.

[Kyle]

And just to clarify, the renewal, since we're doing this event in a month.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

It would be the renewal to the new style offer.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

Okay, Got it.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Ariel]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

This is a combination of couple of couples insurance and couples accelerator. Downside, you do absolutely nothing and you come twice a year. We could still absolutely change your marriage, and it'll be the moments that you remember most. On the upside, you actually do the work with us again. Use the examples I gave. Hey, I've been in church. The problems that you have aren't unique. And so one of the big things about shame is it Lives in darkness. It makes you feel like you're alone. Yeah, sure.

[Kyle]

Yeah, I know. That's great framing.

[Alex Hormozi]

I love that.

[Kyle]

And you also mentioned resources, too. If people have questions, hey, we have resources for that. Would you make that available?

[Alex Hormozi]

Have you defined shame and guilt? Because I think it's probably helpful. So shame is when you break other people's rules that you respect or care about. Guilt is when you break your own rules. So sometimes if your rules are the same as everyone else's, you'll feel guilt and shame. If you don't think what you're doing is wrong, but other people do, you'll just feel ashamed. And if you do something that isn't really wrong in other people's rules but is for yourself, you'll feel guilty.

[Ariel]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

And so I would explain that when someone's like, I don't want to be in these other people, I was like, let's just nail this. Let's just hit this on the head. Which is that you're afraid of being embarrassed.

[Kyle]

Sure.

[Alex Hormozi]

So why do you feel embarrassed? Because you think you're the only person who deals with that and it's self fulfilling. So I think we've done a lot of thought. We consulted our elders, and we actually think that we want to. We want to bring it to the light. We want more people together so that you realize that this isn't something to be ashamed of. If you have an issue and it's normal. And the only thing that's not normal is that people think it's not normal.

[Ariel]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kyle]

I love that. Reframe even the definition of guilt versus shame. I think it's perfect.

[Alex Hormozi]

How do you feel about the spine?

[Ariel]

I like it, love it.

[Alex Hormozi]

Do you feel like you can do it? Of course.

[Kyle]

So coming into this, we had a thousand different ideas of how we can grow our business. And we were so excited to hear from Alex because he has the perspective of a bunch of different business models and a bunch of different markets models. And now, having got to sit with him, we feel very clear on what is the next best step out of the thousand things that we could do. We feel very clear that we could take the steps that he gave, implement it, and actually have more time in the process.

[Ariel]

So even as a couple, I think what Alex equipped us with is going to allow us to be even more aligned on where we're going, even more fulfilled, and just allow us to help and serve even more couples. So we're super excited to put a.

[Alex Hormozi]

Little bow on everything that we're gonna do with Kyle and Arielle's business is number one, we're gonna have a new backend front end offer. Cause it's just gonna combine it into one offer. We're gonna do a little deep dive with one on four. So we're changing the delivery ratio to just give them exactly what they need and expand their supply capacity. Number two is we're gonna test the date night angle. I think it's gonna crush. We'll see. But I feel pretty bullish on it, especially when they gave me their reaction that date night was like people's most favorite thing. I'm like, unless to put that on the front end. Number three is just being more consistent with organic so that we can actually create more testing for free with ads because they're a kind of cash constrained business. So the easiest way to test ads is just post them, see how they do for organic, and then just add the CTA later. So anybody who's broke, like consider doing that. Number four is running a ton of images as statics for the ads. Because they had images that were working better. That's fine. It's usually because the videos they make suck. Not because images are more compelling than videos. Videos are for sure more compelling, but static images are better because people's imaginations fill in something that's compelling rather than a video that they know wasn't good. And then finally, we're going to build more recurring revenue in the business by having all the renewals occur in person, which is the highest likelihood of closing. And so with those five changes within the business, I think they're going to unlock a tremendous amount of growth. And if you liked this video, you're going to love this next video where I break down a different business so that you can use the same tax they did, make all the money, and then question the meaning of life.