So What’s Next? | Spotify Video Exclusive

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: The Game with Alex Hormozi

Episode: So What’s Next? | Spotify Video Exclusive
Date: December 1, 2023
Host: Alex Hormozi
Featured Guest: Mark Manson

---

Episode Overview

In this dynamic episode, Alex Hormozi sits down with renowned author and thinker Mark Manson shortly after Manson's highly successful book launch. They explore what’s next after hitting such a high milestone—diving into actionable advice on behavior change, environment design, redefining winning, and maintaining brand integrity. The discussion unfolds with a mix of deep insight, lighthearted banter, and candid reflections about the future of both business and content creation.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Post-Success Mindset: “What’s Next?”

• Timestamps: [00:00]–[00:10], [12:38]–[12:50]
• Discussion: The episode kicks off with the perennial “what now?” question after a major goal is accomplished.
  • Mark hints at ongoing projects and emphasizes continued growth:

  “More better. We will do more of what we were doing before. We will do it better...I have two big projects: my third book and One of Zero.” — Mark Manson, [12:50]

---

2. Environment and Behavior Change

• Timestamps: [01:02]–[03:34]
• Insight: Mark shares wisdom on how to rewire life and habits, drawing from behavior psychology and environmental science.
  • Notable analogy about changing environments to successfully break habits, referencing Vietnam veterans:

  “People were doing heroin in a different environment and then they changed their environment and then they never went back to the environment that they did heroin in.” — Mark Manson, [01:50]

  • Key takeaway: “Starve the negative things in your life; sometimes you need to remove yourself from unhealthy contexts.”

---

3. Operationalizing Mental Models

• Timestamps: [02:45]–[03:34]
• Insight: Mark explains his process of turning vague concepts (like patience, love, confidence) into actionable, measurable definitions.
  • Example about love:

  “How much are you willing to sacrifice to maintain the relationship? That is how you can measure love.” — Mark Manson, [02:59]

---

4. Book Launch Strategy: Living the Message

• Timestamps: [03:34]–[04:29]
• Discussion: Mark “proves the concept” by applying his book’s own lessons to its marketing.
  • “With each book, I wanted to demonstrate the concept of the book with the book itself...I will show you that they work because I will use them to market and promote the book.” — Mark Manson, [03:46]
  • Details: Leveraging ads, a vast affiliate network, and creative incentives.

---

5. Brand Philosophy: From “One of One” to “One of Zero”

• Timestamps: [04:29]–[06:09]
• Explanation: Mark introduces “One of Zero,” a concept that goes beyond being unique—striving for the unprecedented, for what’s not even possible or defined.

  • “It was doing what no one else would do...doing things that you’re not even sure you can do yet.” — Mark Manson, [05:25]

  • The phrase embodies going past the expected and breaking conventional constraints.

---

6. Packing & Work Habits: Efficiency and Minimalism

• Timestamps: [07:30]–[10:22]
• Anecdotes: Mark details his minimalist, optimized routines for travel and daily life to maximize focus and output.

---

7. Redefining “Winning” and Sustained Motivation

• Timestamps: [06:10]–[07:30]
• Personal Growth: Mark discusses his biggest personal breakthrough: redefining what it means to win—not by external rewards, but by his own highest standard of effort.

  • “I had to make winning working as hard as I could on something...If that is what winning is, then I can only do it for a few things.” — Mark Manson, [07:07]

  • Key insight: Shifting reward structure from short-term external validation to long-term self-assessed effort.

---

8. Podcasting & Content Creation: Depth over Algorithm

• Timestamps: [10:24]–[10:38], [12:05]–[12:16]
• Advice: Mark critiques creators who lose themselves chasing trends:

  “Not being them. Basically getting taken over by the algorithm and then like, talking about blue trees when they don’t actually fuck with blue trees.” — Mark Manson, [10:24]

  • Advocacy for authenticity and long-term brand building.

---

9. Comedy & Philosophy: The “Truth-tellers”

• Timestamps: [11:00]–[11:36]
• Personal Interests: Mark admires comedians and philosophers, calling them society’s truth-tellers and expressing interest in moving toward comedic content.

  • “Comedy and philosophy are probably my two great interests...philosophers and comedians, I love what they do.” — Mark Manson, [11:12]

---

10. Staying at the Top: Avoiding Repetition

• Timestamps: [12:05]–[12:38]
• Peer Discussion: Friends and industry peers warn Mark not to become a repetitive “content machine,” emphasizing that being the best requires evolving and not stagnating.

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On behavior change:

  “If you were to think about yourself as that horse, then it’s like, okay, well, what is the equivalent of the bloodletting, the dehydration, the starving that you can put yourself into, get the behavior you want.” — Mark Manson, [01:15]

• On authenticity in content:

  “They got a lot of likes and they’re like, maybe I’ll start making more stuff on blue trees…then they’re like, oh, I’m like the Blue Tree Channel. But, like, I don’t even care about trees.” — Mark Manson, [10:34]

• On redefining winning:

  “It’s easy to make the Instagram clip, but it’s hard to live it.” — Mark Manson, [07:06]

• On “One of Zero”:

  “One of one is doing the things that only you can do. But one of zero is doing things that you’re not even sure you can do yet.” — Mark Manson, [05:48]

---

Section Timestamps (for Deep Dives)

• Post-launch and future focus: [00:00]–[00:10], [12:38]–[12:50]
• Behavior and environment: [01:02]–[03:34]
• Book launch/marketing meta: [03:34]–[04:29]
• Brand philosophy / "One of Zero": [04:29]–[06:09]
• Work ethic/redefining success: [06:10]–[07:30]
• Content authenticity: [10:24]–[10:38]
• Comedy/philosophy: [11:00]–[11:36]
• Peer feedback & legacy: [12:05]–[12:38]

---

Conclusion

This episode is a blend of entrepreneurial lessons and philosophical frameworks, as Mark Manson and Alex Hormozi explore how to sustain excellence beyond a big win, operationalize abstract concepts, and stay true in a world driven by algorithms. The emphasis on self-definition, intentional environment design, and authentic long-term creation makes it a must-listen for anyone navigating business, creativity, and personal growth after achieving a major goal.

Transcript

[Interviewer]

You just spent two years of your life dedicated to this book and blew the launch out of the water. So what now?

[Mark Manson]

Today we're going to be going to four different podcasts to talk about what's next for the brand and beyond. Thank you. Can I have a piece of gum? Oh, it's your last one. I'm not going to do that to you. No, no. I will never take a man's last piece of gum. No. It's crude and unusual. Thank you. The last piece is always a holy piece. I would have done this with him and, like, split it. Lady in the Tramp style, my man. Yeah. Let's rock.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Your wedding ring is rubber.

[Mark Manson]

Yeah. The other ring, it would, like. It would get a little tight while I was sleeping, and I would end up taking it off while I'm asleep, and I'd be like, where is it?

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Mark, you are ridiculously good at writing instruction manuals for how to make money. But if people don't know how to think and they've got a life structure that doesn't make any sense, and they're wasting time on social media or even just a friend group that is going nowhere fast, what advice do you have for them to get back on track?

[Mark Manson]

One of my favorite quotes from B.F. skinner, who was a behavior psychologist from way back in the day, was, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. He said, well, if you bleed it out enough and you starve it and you leave it in the sun and you put the water right in front of its mouth, he's like, I can veritably guarantee that I can make it drink. And so if you were to think about yourself as that horse, then it's like, okay, well, what is the equivalent of the bloodletting, the dehydration, the starving that you can put yourself into, get the behavior you want. So starving has a negative connotation, but we can also starve out the negative things in your life. Like, you can starve the alcohol, you can starve the friends. And I think the easiest way to do that is to get out of the environment you're in. I think this was in atomic habits in Vietnam. I think it was like 10% of troops or something were taking heroin when they were over there in the 70s, and they thought there was going to be this massive problem when they came back to the States. But when they came back to the States, almost no one continued the heroin habit. And so going from Vietnam, where you're doing Heroin, to the US where you're not taking heroin had a 90% success rate, whereas the inverse is true of recovery centers in the United States. Today. People go there and 90% of them relapse when they go back home. And so the difference is that people were doing heroin in a different environment and then they changed their environment and then they never went back to the environment that they did heroin in. To be fair, I think the reason a lot of people kind of like some of the content that I put out from a money making perspective is how can I operationalize this word, right? So like patience, for example, is one that people throw out a lot. But for me, defining patience was helpful, which is figuring out what to do in the meantime. Like, that's patience. Like we're like, I'm not patient. It's like, no, you just need to figure out what to do in the meantime. I think these are like mental models around using emotions to fuel the behaviors that you want. So me defining amorphous terms like confidence, winning, respect, loyalty, sadness, anxiety have come from my own desire to understand the words and reading the dictionary definitions and feeling like they don't provide much and they can't help me. What is love? And you know, people are like, it's a feeling that that doesn't help me. How do I operationalize this word love for me? How much are you willing to sacrifice to maintain the relationship? That is how you can measure love. You could use an example of like, man, that guy works on that piece of crap car all the time. He must really love it, right? Like he's willing to sacrifice a lot to maintain that thing. To the same degree, many people would sacrifice everything for their kids. Now there's plenty of times where they don't like their kids, but they'd be willing to die for their children. You might be willing to die for your country. And so when I define these terms, it has been out of my own self interest to learn how to navigate life better.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

You just did a book launch. It was unreal. I mean, really like blew people's minds, set a standard or what did you demonstrate in the way that you did that that other people don't understand.

[Mark Manson]

With each book, I wanted to demonstrate the concept of the book with the book itself. Since the concept of the book was to advertise and to get lots of leads, then I thought it would be appropriate to advertise and get lots of leads. And I used every method in the book I ran ads for. Even though I didn't need to run ads, we still got 137,000 people from ads. We had affiliates. We got 104,000 people there from affiliates. We had 27,000 affiliates promote the book. We had customer referrals. People sent their friends there. So I had an incentive that if you just get 10 people to come, you'll get two bonus chapters that aren't released with the book. And so, you know, the next book, I'll try and continue that meta theme of, I have concepts in this book, and I will show you that they work because I will use them to market and promote the book.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Tell me. On a no strip, it says, be one of zero. What does that mean?

[Mark Manson]

So one of zero is a brand that I am really passionate about the concept. 1 of 0 actually came from my media team. We talk about content in general as one of one content. We try to make content that only we can make. And that's actually one of my big marketing rules, is that say what only you can say, show what only you can show. As we were approaching the event, the team learned more and more about what we were gonna be giving away and how much we were putting into it. And they were like, dude, this isn't even one of one. This is one of zero. And that statement just clicked. And then every. Everyone latched onto it because it wasn't about just doing what only we could do. It was doing what no one else would do. You look at one of zero, one divided by zero from a mathematical perspective, it's undefined. And I think a lot of that is stuff that I resonate with, which is doing work that no one else will do is doing the things that other people will tell you not to do. And foregoing the shoulds and the must and the have to's that people around you tell you to do because they want to project their life and their expeditions on yours. But you want to live in direct contrast to that because you want to be your own person and be beyond definition and let your actions be the only thing that define you. One of one is doing the things that only you can do. But one of zero is doing things that you're not even sure you can do yet. Appreciate you, man. Chick Fil A action. What is the Chick Fil A order? I go 12 count grilled nugs, 4 count fry tenders, and then a spicy chicken deluxe no cheese with chick Fil A sauce and ranch. That's the go to. If you could only choose between one sauce out of every restaurant, it would be no. It would be most Al Khyar, the Persian yogurt sauce.

[Interviewer]

Go with the roots.

[Mark Manson]

Yeah. I mean, it also has nutritional value. It's yogurt. It's got protein in it. Fat. It's refreshing. What's the sign of a good podcast interview for you? Number one is my rapport with the host. If we're comfortable, then automatically the conversation is going to be better. The second thing is how much they know about me and our stuff. If I'm doing, like, recaps, it's less interesting. If I were to do a third and fourth thing, it is quality of the follow on questions. Because there are some people who have, like, these are 12 questions that I will ask Alex. They ask a question, I answer the question, then they say question two. And then they don't dive deeper into it, which to me makes it almost makes it seem like they're not listening, because then it's not a conversation. It's really just like 12 short clips. The last one is really their ability to let silence exist. I will say that I have noticed this about the best podcast host, is that, like, they will ask a question and then I might answer, and they will just. They will just sit at the end of that and then give me another second or two, and then I might add something to it that might be the real nugget or crystallization of thinking. And if you have a really rushed cadence in terms of how the conversation is going, it becomes more difficult to have thoughtful responses. Oh, wow. What's up, stud? How's it going, man? Good to see you, man. What have you learned in the last year? The hardest work I have done has been my redefining winning. I think for me, that is, like, that has been my big unlock for how much effort I can put in to make better and keep pushing. So I think one of the hardest things as an entrepreneur or just an individual is shifting how you define winning for yourself. And it's easy to say it and say, of course I'm in the game, I'm winning. It's much harder to actually believe that. And so it's easy to make the Instagram clip, but it's hard to live it. And what's been interesting for me is that I feel like it's unlocked a different level of work ethic. I thought that the fear of the gun to your head was still the strongest motivator, and it is in the short term. But if you need to run a marathon, then you need to have something that is going to sustain for a longer period of time. Like, punishment is always stronger. The short term reward is always Longer than the long term. And so we have to redefine how we reward ourselves for the work we do. And so since I don't believe in legacy, and I don't believe that in 5,000 years people are going to remember who I am, I had to make winning working as hard as I could on something. How do you measure working as hard as you can? Tough. I think about a future version of myself who has all the context of my current situation, my skills, the information available to me, the resources I have. And that man, that future man, knows what perfect work looks like, which is how much effort can I put into this thing and not be distracted and continue to chisel away at this project? It's very hard because it means there's very few projects that I can do if I have that level of work as my new standard. And so if that level of work is the standard, and that is what winning is, then I can only do it for a few things. There's just a lot of things I'm not going to be able to do, which is sad in some ways, but I think a necessary trade off. Because, like, we have one human life hair band, no strip ready. I tested a zillion different bags. To get the bag that I have, I wear one pair of shorts and one beater. If I want to conserve space, I can do two to one. So I can do two beaters per one pair of shorts. I can wear shorts twice. I know I'm risque like that. I bring no strips, and I usually have one flannel or button down that I bring with me. And I wear the same shoes that are appropriate in all venues. I can wear them to gym. I can wear them to a restaurant. I can wear them on stage. That makes packing take less than a minute for me. And that's how I like it. And so I can pretty much work until the moment we have to leave. And I just throw my two beaters in and my shorts and I'm good to go. The first time you put them on, you're like, this is not gonna make it better. If you ever have breathing problems, whenever you've got, like a good line of. Of air, you're like, don't with it. You know, like, just let it go. So you go here to just destroy all of the good stuff, and then you take your first breath and you're like, I didn't know I could breathe so well. I didn't know the air could be so sweet. The studs. What's up, man? What up, council? We need to do something about billionaires.

[Interviewer]

I am proposing that the city of

[Mark Manson]

Los Angeles ban billionaires from the beach. What do you think is the biggest mistake content creators make today? Not being them. Basically getting taken over by the algorithm and then like, talking about blue trees when they don't actually fuck with blue trees.

[Interviewer]

Right?

[Mark Manson]

But they did it because they did one blue tree post and people. Right. It had to. And so they got a lot of likes and they're like, maybe I'll start making more stuff on blue trees. But, like, then they go down that alleyway for six months or a year, and then they're like, oh, I'm like the Blue Tree Channel. But, like, I don't even care about trees. Like, that's not even stuff I like talking about. And so they can't actually sustain it because the biggest brands are built over decades, not days or weeks or months. Secret confession. The majority of my newsfeed, almost all of it, is comedians, and that's because I like comedy. And I think comedy and philosophy are probably my two great interests in terms of the things that I consume, because they are the two. The two truth tellers of society as philosophers and comedians. I love what they do. And I also think, like, what more philanthropic line of work can you have than to just bring joy to people? I think that's really cool. And I have a lot of admiration for the craft, and so I'd like to do more stuff in that arena if the comedic world will have me. As of this morning, both $100 million offers and $100 million leads are on Amazon charts. So top 20 books on all Amazon. We have two of them. We beat Harry Potter. Take that, JK. I'm kidding. You're amazing, and I'm a huge fan of your work. I would say American Chicken and rice is like, meh. That's why you got to go off the sword. You got to go Middle Eastern style. Some juju kebab. If you know, you know. Hello. Hello. How are you, bro? Good, man.

[Friend or Industry Peer]

You need to get back in the gym.

[Mark Manson]

I know. I cleaned out a little bit.

[Friend or Industry Peer]

The challenge for you is going to be you continuing to grow and experience and dig deeper into not becoming a repetitive. Like, everybody in this space.

[Mark Manson]

You know exactly what I mean.

[Friend or Industry Peer]

Because you are the best right now, and you've taken that title. It took you a while. You were like a rising dude coming up. I'm like, he's going to do it. He's going to do it.

[Mark Manson]

He's going to do it.

[Friend or Industry Peer]

Now you've done it. And by the way, when I talk to other people, this is kind of a consensus. It's not like I'm giving you some compliment. No one else has told you. I think you're the best right now.

[Mark Manson]

Thanks.

[Friend or Industry Peer]

And I say right now because that's

[Mark Manson]

not a title that you got to keep long term.

[Friend or Industry Peer]

You got to keep all arguing and fighting for it and scratching. But you're the best.

[Interviewer]

You just spent two years of your life dedicated to this book. You spent six hours every day writing it and blew the launch out of the water. So what now?

[Mark Manson]

More better. We will do more of what we were doing before. We will do it better. I do have my project, you know, One of Zero, that I'm working on in the background. At the same time, I still have my third book. And I think a lot of. A lot of people are going to make a lot of money from it, which I'm very excited about. And we'll, you know, get more companies in acquisition.com. but I have, I have two big projects that I'm working on. One is the third book, the other is one of zero. And those are kind of the two big projects that I have for the next two years.