The Business Game No One Tells You About. Hormozi Hotline. | Ep 966

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Game with Alex Hormozi
Episode: The Business Game No One Tells You About. Hormozi Hotline. | Ep 966
Date: November 7, 2025
Host: Alex Hormozi

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Episode Overview

In this dynamic "Hormozi Hotline" episode, Alex Hormozi answers live business questions ranging from understanding enterprise value, structuring offers for better cash flow, improving SaaS and content businesses, to handling sales and operations scaling. The rapid-fire Q&A format reveals practical and unfiltered business strategies, featuring actionable frameworks, relatable analogies, and Alex's trademark bluntness about entrepreneurship realities.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Understanding Enterprise Value vs. Cash Flow

Timestamps: 00:01–05:40

• Enterprise Value Matters When Basic Needs Are Met:
  Alex breaks down why real wealth in business isn't just about cash flow, but about building an asset (enterprise value) that can be leveraged, sold, or borrowed against.
  • "There’s levels to this game. If you want to move up levels, you need to play a different game." — Alex [03:24]
• Enterprise value enables:
  • Tax-advantaged net worth growth.
  • Access to loans/credit.
  • Attracting investors.
• But cash flow is king if you're not past survival or basic comfort. Alex emphasizes meeting your immediate and family needs first before focusing on valuation games.

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2. Marketing & Retention for SaaS and Startups

Timestamps: 05:40–06:14; Relevant in multiple answers

• Four Core Growth Options: Outreach to known/unknown contacts, paid ads, content, or hiring it out (through agencies, affiliates, customers, or employees).
• In the early stage: Focus on revenue retention before pursuing viral or paid strategies.
• Value Equation:
  Alex explains his "Value Equation," centering around dream outcome, effort/sacrifice, and probability of success.
  • "You ask them to buy it, and if they pay you for it, then they have found value." [06:09]

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3. Accelerating Cash Flow in Service Businesses

Caller: William (Assisted Living) [06:14–10:11]

• Pulling Cash Forward:
  • Add setup/onboarding fees or require multiple months upfront.
  • Bundle ancillary services (moving, transportation, extras).
  • Customers are less sensitive to one-time fees.
    • “People are very sensitive to the monthly fee... less sensitive to one-time fees because it’s only once.” — Alex [09:09]
  • Upsell during a transition period as wallets are open and families are seeking solutions.

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4. Lead Qualification & Customer Avatar in Agency Models

Caller: JT (Wholesaling/Real Estate SaaS) [10:22–18:29]

• Problem: Low close rates, unqualified leads, fear that more qualification will reduce volume/increase costs.
• Solution:
  • Add lead qualification friction to funnel; this increases profitability and protects reputation.
  • Define your “avatar” (ideal customer profile) based on your best spenders/lowest churn—consider demographics, quantifiables, and geographics.
  • “When you accept everyone, you ward off people who can actually afford stuff.” — Alex [14:55]
• Action Steps Summary:
  • Profile best customers, add qualifying questions, align advertising/messaging, and funnel only the right leads to your sales team.

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5. Retention for B2B Services (Architecture Example)

Question: Emiliano (Architectural Firm) [18:30–21:08]

• Key Insight: “Chunk up” a level to find sources of recurring revenue—focus not on end-clients (e.g., buildings) but on recurring referral partners/contractors who provide ongoing work.

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6. Scaling & Valuing Apparel Collaborations

Caller: Liam (Anime Apparel) [21:09–29:42]

• Business Model: Explains collaborating with TV/IP brands for apparel drops; challenges with inconsistent cash flow and scaling acquisition.
• Key Issues:
  • Variability in IP value/performance.
  • Seeking more predictable lead costs, higher margins, potential acquisition.
• Advice:
  • Build predictive data models to forecast drop success.
  • Expand to influencer/creator collaborations: Use ambassadors/micro-creators in niche markets for wider, recurring reach.
  • “Mr. Beast can drop a T-shirt and do your entire year’s revenue in a day.” — Alex [26:03]
  • “I think the ambassador program is smart... you build your own TikTok shop of T-shirts via ambassadors...” [28:18]
• Acquisition Reality Check: Big acquirers care about scale; make your business defensible via exclusive rights/data/massive presence.

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7. Platform vs. SaaS for Property Inspection

Question: Listener (SaaS vs. Platform Play) [29:43–31:57]

• Key Point: Platforms are hard/expensive; most should opt for B2B SaaS unless aiming for massive (trillion-dollar) upside.

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8. Patents & Defensibility

Caller: Rowdy Adventures (Patent Holder) [31:58–33:03]

• Reality: “Patents don’t mean shit unless you have a legal budget to defend them.”
• Focus: Launch and scale before worrying about copycats; only defend vigorously once cash flow allows.

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9. Content Membership & Churn in Niche Markets

Caller: Sam (Real Estate Social Media Membership) [33:03–42:12]

• Current Stats: $20K/mo revenue, 12% monthly churn, ~300 members, $49/mo.
• Challenges: High churn, slow growth, possible market constraints (real estate agents).
• Advice:
  • Analyze stickiest customer segments (e.g., active agents).
  • Offer strong annual prepay incentives (equivalent to LTV but pulls cash forward).
  • Test higher-ticket "managed" upsells to diversify.
  • Learn more before pivoting—success is often about getting specific and tweaking value props/offers to the right sub-segment.
    • “It would behoove you to learn which types of Realtors churn versus the ones that don’t... there’s probably two or three characteristics that separate them.” — Alex [41:14]

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10. AI & The Future-Proof Service Model

Question: Video Editor (AI & Job Security) [42:12–43:37]

• Message: Don’t fear AI—embrace it as leverage to scale your business and productivity now; laggards/late adopters still make money.

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11. Scaling Physical Product Distribution (Robotic Cotton Candy Machines)

Caller: (Robotic Cotton Candy Entrepreneur) [43:38–52:34]

• Model: Entrepreneurs buy machines to place in locations, but bottleneck is securing those locations.
• Outbound and Sales Operations:
  • Cold email and cold call are working (1/100 email conversion with $7,500 profit per sale).
  • Main constraint is operational: need to separate “setters” (lead generators) and “closers” (deal finishers).
    • “My immediate next action…go from 100 emails to 5,000 emails a day. That’s what I would focus on.” — Alex [51:57]
• Tactics:
  • Automate and scale outbound with SDRs or AI dialers.
  • Structure sales team efficiently: a few setters can drive huge results for a handful of skilled closers.
  • “The returns on this are stupid... I love this business.” — Alex [49:24]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There’s levels to this game. If you want to move up levels, you need to play a different game.” — Alex [03:24]
• “Patents don’t mean shit unless you have a legal budget to defend them.” — Alex [32:36]
• “When you accept everyone, you ward off people who can actually afford stuff.” — Alex [14:55]
• “My immediate next action…go from 100 emails to 5,000 emails a day. That’s what I would focus on.” — Alex [51:57]
• “Use AI to get as much leverage as you can… maybe you could 100x your scale using technology rather than fearing it.” — Alex [43:16]
• “The obvious thing that everyone says [when struggling to grow] is ‘It’s the avatar.’ … The market leader has 5,000 people. It’s not that many.” — Alex [41:00]

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Segment Timestamps

| Time | Segment / Main Topic | |-----------------|-------------------------------------------------------| | 00:01–05:40 | Enterprise value vs. cash flow | | 05:40–06:14 | Startup marketing/retention | | 06:14–10:11 | Cash flow for assisted living business | | 10:22–18:29 | Lead qualification, avatars, and churn (Agency/SaaS) | | 18:30–21:08 | Revenue retention for architecture firms | | 21:09–29:42 | Scaling an entertainment apparel collab business | | 29:43–31:57 | Platform vs. SaaS for new B2B products | | 31:58–33:03 | Patents, IP, and legal defensibility | | 33:03–42:12 | Niche content memberships & when to pivot | | 42:12–43:37 | AI adoption for freelancers and service providers | | 43:38–52:34 | Scaling robotic vending operations (cotton candy) |

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Final Takeaways

Alex’s answers universally emphasize:

• Simplicity and brutal clarity: don’t overcomplicate with hypotheticals—find what works, scale it up rapidly.
• Digging into data/customers to identify your best opportunities.
• Focusing on leverage—be it enterprise value, technology, or well-designed teams.
• Learning from operations before pivoting—success is more about refinement and process than constant reinvention.

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If you’re building or scaling a business, this episode is a crash course in thinking bigger, validating with math, and staying relentlessly practical—even as you level up to the most lucrative (and challenging) games in the business world.

Transcript

[A]

Let's talk about whatever. And by whatever I mean ideally keyman related topics. You don't understand the value of enterprise value. Of course you build net worth without taxes, but it's fictional numbers that can't liquidate. I like cash flow, hard cash. Thanks to blcctgj. Let me tell you why enterprise value fucking matters. Enterprise value is important for a variety of reasons. Enterprise value dictates how valuable something is. So Stripe, for example, is not publicly traded, but people are willing to invest money in it. And so the founders can get liquidity. And so what you want is to be able to spend something. But the thing is that that comes from the position of not of already not having enough. So let me explain. Once a business actually has enterprise value, it usually has already generated or had the ability to generate more than sufficient cash flow for the owner. Which means that all the excess cash flow that the business generates is going to be transferred to the owner in a tax inefficient manner. And so then what happens is that you want to have growth in your net worth that isn't affected by taxes, right? And so if you say I want cold hard cash. Cool, bro. You want to pay your rent, I get it. After you're done paying your rent and after you pay your house off, and after you pay for your parents house and after you pay for their cars and your kids schools and all that, there's still cash flow coming in. And then you're like, well, I want to upgrade all my cars. Okay, great. And then I want a vacation. Cool. Cost 100 grand. If you want to be a fucking baller, okay, then what? Then you want the most efficient tax vehicle for building wealth, which is your enterprise value. Guess what else you can do with a high value enterprise? You can take loans against it, you can get lines of credit, it becomes an asset. You can raise capital on that, right? And so said differently, there's levels to this game. If you want to move up levels, you need to play a different game. And you have to graduate. If you can't, if you don't know where your rent's coming next month. Fuck enterprise value being super real here. Fuck enterprise value if you have those things satisfied. And the vast majority of my content I try to make. For business owners who are trying to get bigger, who are trying to scale, enterprise value becomes increasingly important. Basically, the bigger you get, the more you satisfy your needs and the people around you's needs. At some point then it becomes about the game. And to be clear, I'm not saying this game is the only game worth playing, and there's not other games in life that are worth winning. But in the game of business, net worth becomes the objective measure. And so that's how that works. Cool. Okay, let's do next question. So, Alex, as a software dev trying to grow a startup app, what do you recommend? I mean, that's like saying, how do you advertise? Honestly? Read this book. Pick one of the core four, which is either going to do outreach to people you know, outreach to people you don't know. You're going to do paid ads, you're going to make content. The other four things you can do is get an agency to do that thing for you, find affiliates to do that thing for you, get customers to do off a viral loop, or you have employees that do the first four on your behalf. Those are your options. Which one would I pick if I were you? In the beginning, you actually care more about revenue retention. And then eventually, once you have revenue retention, then we have to figure out whether it's going to be viral growth or it's all based on like, I can keep everyone who comes in past month 12, but the issue is that no one knows about my stuff. And then it just becomes a cact ltv ratio problem. It's just math after that. Okay. The problem, the hard part is obviously keeping people. Okay. Can you clearly define how to find out what is valuable to your marketplace? Yes. You ask them to buy it, and if they pay you for it, then they have found value in it. And if you're like, what? How do I know how to define value? I actually wrote a book on that too. I actually made an equation for it. So the value equation has four components. One is the dream outcome, which is what is the thing that people ultimately want. And then the other three variables are things that detract or pull away from that dream outcome. And so if I can give you this dream outcome, let's say that you want to get a six pack, you want to be in shape, and I say it's going to take two years. So it's going to be slow. It's going to take time from you every single day. It's going to be. It's going to take a long time, and it will take you a lot of time. So that's two elements of time. It's going to cause you to have to do things that you don't want to do, and it's going to cause you to do stop doing things that you do want to do. So you Stop good stuff and you start bad stuff. And on top of that, there's a chance that you might not hit it. Even if you do all these other things, right, and you take all this sacrifice, it's. Is that a valuable thing? It's kind of. But I basically described the fitness sale to you. You got to work out, you got to stop eating tacos, you can't drink on the weekends, right? It's going to take multiple years and it's also going to take you time every single day. You're going to be sore, you're going to be tired, all this stuff, right? And then on top of that, you might try this whole period of time and you might have terrible genetics. And so all that to say it will. That's why you have to spend an hour arm wrestling somebody to sign up for personal training. On the flip side, If I sold GLP1, which is a diet drug, right, and they have a new drug that's coming out that they're going to pair with GLP1, which is like a muscle preserving drug, so you can literally keep or maintain or gain a little bit of muscle on this drug while also starving yourself. Then you have a better physique and it takes no willpower and you just take this drug. So it's fast, it's virtually guaranteed because it requires no willpower and it gets you the physique you want. Which one's more valuable? Which one do you think would be harder to sell? Probably the personal training one. And so fundamentally, this is how you differentiate value. Hopefully that answer your question. All right, hotline. Let's rock and roll. All right, who we got? Hello, you're on speaker. What's up, man?

[B]

Hi, this is William in Michigan. How you doing, Alex?

[A]

William in Michigan.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right. What's up, man? Tell me about the business.

[B]

Yeah, so I'm in the wife and booties for seniors business, the assisted living memory care business. And the main problem we have, sales are good, but it takes a long time to get the ltv. So they stay within a year, at least in our business. But I'd like to find out a way to bring the cash forward. So it's kind of like, you know, we're getting cash, but it takes two, three months for us to really get good profits. And then of course after that, doing really well. But how are we bringing that cash up forward and present it ahead of time?

[A]

Are you billing insurance or you're billing private?

[B]

Private, no insurance.

[A]

Okay, got it. So do you bill monthly or how do you bill.

[B]

Yeah. So we build, you know, the first of the month and a lot of times we look to collect first and last month's rent and last month's rent is fully refundable on a 30 day notice. But it's similar to like an apartment building.

[A]

Yeah, got it. So I would have honestly all. There's really only two options that are like immediately available to you or I guess three. So number one is you could have some sort of setup, enrollment, onboarding, some sort of fee like that that you could put into the upfront payment. That's thing one. Thing two is you could require first three months up front. That's option two. Option three is you can add on additional service that many of them need and then you could contract that out. So let's say that what are the other things that someone has to buy in order to begin your service? I'm guessing there's some sort of moving costs or moving services, right?

[B]

Yeah, there's like ancillary like transportation.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Beauty, hair and nails, stuff like that.

[A]

Yeah. So basically what we do is just create a bundle that many of those people immediately need to buy. In addition to. Have you read the Money Miles book?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I'm reading through it and I bought the course too.

[A]

Oh, awesome. So big picture, one of the first stories I tell in there is a guy who owns a storage facility and so he gave a free month of storage away. So very similar business to yours. Not saying that you give free month, but same idea. It's like, well, what else do you need to have? When you have a storage unit, you need a lock. Oh, you need boxes. Oh, you need insurance. Oh, you need maybe a bigger unit. Right. And so all of these things pull cash forward and so, well, not the bigger unit, but the other ones do. And so same degree. It's like, okay, can we sell insurance on top? Can we sell the move in services? Can we sell the boxes associated with that? You know where I'm going with this?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I think people will have some, some sort of elasticity. Like people are very, very sensitive to the monthly fee. Right. They are less. But people are less sensitive to one time fees because it's only once.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

So we just need to create that one time fee for people and it'll be even more profitable obviously if it's not just a fee, but it's also tied to stuff they already have to get solved. And if they do it through you, then it just feels easier.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Does that help?

[B]

Yeah. Something else I was thinking about too. It's like, even furniture, we have it fully furnished, but maybe we could give them, like, buy extra furniture. If they want a nice queen size or upgrade on their bed, we could offer that to them, too. That's something that just popped up. I didn't talk about that.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. So we just look at all the other problems that a customer has that they're going to pay somebody to solve. Because you're at a transition point in someone's life, so money's coming out of their pocket and it's already. The wallet's already open. And if you can, especially because this is such a stressful time for many families, if you can just say, like, if you can just say, we'll handle everything. Just pay us this extra fee, we'll make it easy. Many people will just give you that money, and then I think you would pull forward all your. Your cash flow to act to our customers.

[B]

Awesome. Okay, well, sounds good, Alex.

[A]

Appreciate you, William.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right. Have a good one, man. Do we have somebody on here? All right, we got some boats coming in. What's up, man?

[B]

Howdy.

[C]

How are you?

[A]

Howdy. What's your name?

[B]

My name is jt.

[A]

Jt. All right. Jt.

[B]

Yes, sir. Brother.

[A]

Tell me about your business.

[B]

I run, like, a real estate company, Closure, and it handles the marketing and sales for, like, new wholesalers and people getting into the business. They can scale faster and learn the process while they earn it.

[A]

Okay, so you generate appointments and leads for them?

[B]

We generate the leads for them and we send our sales team on the deal. So basically, we are running, like, the entire front end and the back end. So they're basically running the marketing, but they get to learn while they do the process with us.

[A]

So why this genuine question, like, why do you do that versus just, like, doing wholesaling?

[B]

I do it because it fixes the cash, Our cash conversion cycle. Like, we're able to. We're able to fix the, like, the liquidity issue in wholesale because the days on market is so long. We're taking it down to where we can, like, become way more profitable if we do it this way.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. You could raise money and just do it. Side note, but. All right. Okay, so what do you want to have happen that's not happening when we're.

[B]

On, like, sales poll with people, basically, they agree on the price, but a lot of the times, like, they can't afford the first payment or they can't get approved for financing. And I'm like, is that a sales problem or is it, like a lead problem? And should we just collect whatever cash they have or. No?

[A]

Well, how are they going to afford to pay for the marketing too if they can't pay for. Is that what you're saying? They can't afford to pay for the marketing?

[B]

Yeah, so they can't afford to pay for the marketing.

[A]

What's the revenue stick? What's the stick in this business? Like how, like do people stay for years doing this with you? Like, what percentage of customers are here 12 months later?

[B]

No, it's mostly not that they're here 12 months later. It's like the onboarding. So the LCD is roughly like 35,000 within like 90 days. But over time, like the only thing they really stay for is like the CRM if they use it.

[A]

Okay, so you white label go high level or something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Okay. So the issue is that what's your LTV to CAC right now?

[B]

So right now our CAC is roughly like 5,000, but we're, we're at 35, like 35,000 ish LTV.

[A]

Okay, so you're 7 to 1. Okay. So I mean that inherently is okay. So what stops you from doing more of what you're doing?

[B]

Nothing's necessarily stopping me. Our close rate is just super low.

[A]

Okay. I would probably just throw in lead qualifications on the front end. It'll just like decrease the frustration of your team. You'll probably increase your. Well, obviously you'll increase your close rates if you take out the disqualifieds, but it'll. You'll close more in general because the sales team won't be beat down from hearing no all day.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'll tell you this, man. You will make significantly more money by adding qualifications to a funnel. Like I almost, I have almost never. I'm like, I'm trying to think of a time where me adding qualification friction made me less money. Your metrics will change. So like your so not CAC and ltv, but your LTV might change. But said differently, like your cost per call or cost per click or you know, whatever metric you use there will probably go up, but your CAC may go down and your LTV will certainly go up.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I would just add more qualifications in the process and then do more.

[B]

So I guess that, I guess that's a fear of mine. Receipt for the employment to go up, cost per employment to go up, but basically it should make it more profitable because we're not talking to unqualified people, Correct?

[A]

Yes. Because listen, if you let some of these minnows in, right, it's not a good Fit for them, it's putting it's their last dollar. Like you should not. Like you shouldn't do it ethically anyways, but like outside of ethics, because that never convinces anyone if they're making money. It's not good for the business, it's bad for the sales team, it's bad for reputation. And fundamentally, like when you accept everyone, you ward off people who can actually afford stuff.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And like, I guess like you said, you're big on lead magnets. So we do provide like a really in depth training guide. Like really in depth. But the issue there is the majority of people who come in are not qualified at all. So should I add more qualifications to that too?

[A]

So you can add. Qualify. What is the lead magnet again?

[B]

The lead magnet is a training. It's like all of our SOPs. Like all of our SOPs.

[A]

All of our.

[B]

Basically for our entire company.

[A]

You can have the SOPs there, whatever. Just add an extra box that says whatever the qualifications are that you know are required for somebody to be a good customer. So like for example, at the book launch, people could opt in to show up to the launch. The launch functionally acted as a lead magnet in this scenario. I still ask for people whether they owned a business and if they had a business, what revenue level they were at. Because I don't have no need for leads in a CRM who are not business owners above a certain size to get a call from my team. There's no point. It's a waste of their time, it's a waste of ours. They should just use all my free stuff and so just add a qualifier on the, on the front end.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then only call those leads and then have the thank you page sort leads, the best leads to the sales team and then the worst lead, just send them to an automated thing that maybe self liquidate some of the ad spend.

[B]

Okay, so on the qualification question, would you put like something vague? Like we have right now we have a qualification question like are you willing to invest in your.

[A]

No, but that's not a qualification question. Dude, that's, that's like do you have a pulse? And a credit card question. I'm saying you have to. You need to figure out who your avatar is. Have you read the Lost Chapters book?

[B]

The Lost Chapters book? No, I haven't read that one.

[A]

First chapter of the Lost Chapters book is finding your first avatar. All right. The process that it walks through in the book in that first chapter is you need to look at the customers who have spent the most with you and stayed the longest. What are their characteristics? So we look at their demographics, like, who are they? We looked at their quantifiables, like, do they have a certain income level? Do they have a certain amount of kids? They have a certain family. And then I look at geographics. Do they live in a certain area? And so when I have those three things put together, then I know that it's like, okay, it's actually conservative Christian males, you know, 35 plus, who are married is actually my best avatar. And it's like, great. So that's what we're gonna make in our ads. And your big fear right now is if I make more qualifications, my cost is gonna go up. But it's not, dude, because you're gonna need to advertise to the right type of customer, and you'll get those people to opt in, and then you will go get them to buy more expensive stuff. It's everyone's fear. Everyone's fear is going from general to specific. But when you go specific, you get the right people.

[B]

Okay, so actionable steps are just like the qualification question and making it specific to the avatar.

[A]

So in order, it will be determine the avatar by looking at all the customers that you have. You want to look at who they are, what quantifiables they have, geographics, and if you can, bonus points for sales process. Did they consume anything else in the sales process? They have a different experience than the people who didn't, who aren't worth as much. Once we have that data, we then weave that into the advertising in terms of call outs of who the avatar is. We weave that into the landing pages, weave that into the. The dropdowns for the questions and the friction that we add in the funnel, we add that into the VSLs. If you have a VSL, I'm sure you do that. That tells them about the process, and it begins with the pains and the hook of that specific avatar. You do all that stuff.

[B]

You.

[A]

You will for sure convert more. Okay, cool.

[B]

Thank you, brother.

[A]

You bet, man. Have a good one, dude. All right, so it looks like. Ooh, what does it look like? Let's let me see if any question. Okay. What you think are the best revenue retention opportunities for an architecture firm? What would it take to get there started from scratch? All right, Emiliano, I'm gonna give you. I'm gonna give you some game. So some businesses like yours, you need to chunk up a level to figure out revenue retentions. So what does that mean? So I'll give you an example. So, Alan, See, the universe knew, Alan. The software that we ran at the beginning, I was trying to sell lead nurture services to brick and mortar businesses, SMBs. The problem with lead nurture services when you have an SMB is that they have inconsistent lead flow. And so as soon as they're like, oh, this is great, but how do we get leads, right? And they're like, oh, no, this is a whole nother problem. This is a different business. And so then we had the smart idea of like, well, what businesses already have leads? And the answer to that question was businesses already working with agencies. And so then I said, oh, maybe agencies are really our customer. And so that's what we figured out, was that agencies would bring customers in and they would churn those people out. But they. Let's say chiropractor agency has 10 chiropractors that pay $2,000 a month. Mini itty bitty agency, right? They've got 10 chiropractors paying $2,000 a month. And let's say every month they lose two chiropractors and they gain two chiropractors. I can rely on that agency to use my software month over month over month to with each of his chiropractor people, even though the logos of the people inside of his little ecosystem will change. But my revenue retention on the at the agency level was super good. So why did I tell that story? Because it's an analogy for you, Emiliano, which is that your architecture firm, you're thinking about it at the house level or at the building level, right? If you chunk up a level which is like, okay, who are the referral partners or who are the people that you do business with on a regular basis? Is it contractors? Is it. Who are the people referring you business? And so once we find those people who, who you're doing business with a regular basis, we want to demonstrate that we're retaining them rather than the pro at the project level. So you chunk up and then those become your nodes of revenue. And so you then have your acquisition or your sales motion is going to be geared around how do I advertise and acquire more of these referral partners. And I know each referral partner is worth X and it cost me Y in order to acquire them. And I can retain them significantly more than I can for the individual products or logos that they're bringing on that help, Emiliano. That's how you do it. Okay, Next caller. Hello. What's up, man? What's your name?

[B]

My name is Liam. I'm 24. My business is going to do about 6 million in revenue this year. And we do apparel for TV shows. Unlimited time.

[A]

Exclusive drops a pair. Okay, so you do. So you partner with the. You partner with Shark Tank, right? I'm saying hypothetically. So you partner with a TV show and then you make Shark Tank merch, and then you drop. They drop that merch on their show and you deliver.

[B]

We market it ourselves. We drop it through our channel. So it's a collaboration, but it's all through our own channels.

[A]

But you obviously get to use their brand in the advertising. And. And then you do some sort of, like, split on the profits, I'm guessing. Yes.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Okay, great. So you're doing 6 million. What's internal revenue? Or rather, what's gross profit and then what's internal revenue? So that's kind of three numbers there.

[B]

Gross profit this year we're gonna be running at about 10 to 15% and gross about 30%.

[A]

So $6 million is what you made. That's how many shirts were bought, right?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Okay, $6 million of shirts are bought. What do you sell a shirt for? What does it cost you? Fully loaded.

[B]

$50 for a shirt and it costs about 12.

[A]

Damn. Okay, okay, so you got 38 on 50, right? Is what. Is what you're making, right?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Okay, fantastic. Now, so what's that? That's 75% ish. Gross margin somewhere in there. Okay, so that's fine. Now, of that $38, what's the split between you and the TV show?

[B]

Each license is negotiated independently. It can range from 5% to 25%, depending on the size of the IP.

[A]

Oh, so they get 5%. So they would get two and a half dollars per shirt. All the way to getting 12 bucks a shirt.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, that's not bad. That's not bad. Okay, this is workable. So I'm just going to say, like, midpoint. Let's just say midpoint is 10 bucks. All right? We'll be aggressive with it. So 10 bucks. So you actually, at $28 per shirt on. On a $50 shirt, call it 25 with other shit. So 50% is what we're working off of. Okay, so what was net profit?

[B]

About 600k.

[A]

Got it. 10%. Okay, so what's the problem?

[B]

We've completely capped out on our. We do almost exclusively paid traffic on Meta and TikTok. We drive people to a wait list for the drop, we hype the drop up, and then we do a launch. And the pricing model, we base it off of what we can fire A lead for. And the problem is our cash flow becomes super inconsistent because each IP performs wildly differently in terms of how much rep. And some wait lists will convert at like a 25% waitlist to purchase ratio, some will convert at 5%. And so we need a more cost effective way to acquire leads because essentially we're just dead in the water at 10%.

[A]

Yeah. So I think that the big thing that's actually missing for you is predictive data. So you being able to say, like, you're like, well, they perform wildly differently. Well, the more you do it and the more data you track, the less wild it should be. Does that make sense?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So if you were to take somebody. I'll give you an example, a simple example. If somebody else were to go launch a book, right? And they have, call it 4 million, you know, YouTube followers, whatever, and I launch a book and I have 4 million YouTube followers, why is it that my book is gonna sell way more than theirs? Right. You should be able to answer that question quantitatively. And so that'll take a lot of the guesswork and the volatility around which brands you partner with and the power of the negotiation, because I'm sure there's some deals where they thought their brand was significantly more valuable than it really was, and there's probably other brands and this probably even sometimes more often the case, a brand that they don't think is that valuable at all and in fact is actually super valuable in terms of the people who are willing to buy. So thing one is predictive data. Thing two, have you considered going to influencers and doing this exact same model we have?

[B]

The big thing is emotional relevancy to the show or to whatever the IP is. A lot of influencers, they're not particularly well for something like that. Where it's like a really good example is the Nelkois with full send. Find a common audience. They have a hierarchy of brand over. They treat themselves like ambassadors. We've looked at it, we've interviewed you, but the numbers just never made sense to us.

[A]

Well, I mean, like, I feel like they should because you're taking premium TV shows, which have a lot of times smaller audiences than like, some big creators do.

[B]

You honestly. Right.

[A]

Mr. Beast can drop a T shirt and do your entire year's revenue in like a day.

[B]

You can dive deeper into the creator economy, leverage the already existing audience. We don't have to spend so heavily on ads.

[A]

Yeah. And they'll collaborate with you. And there's a zillion of them and a Lot of them don't make money and they're not going to be hardcore negotiators. Sorry, go ahead.

[B]

All of the IP we're collecting are in a specific niche. And as we retain a whole lot of the IP we can renew these releases over and over again.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And that makes us an acquisition target when we have all these relevant ip.

[A]

You mean just the T shirts that you're allowed to use and the ads that you can run for them?

[B]

Exactly. Because all the TV shows, they're anime TV shows.

[A]

Oh, word. I got it. So you're super niche. So the issue is what is issues that like it's not growing as fast as you want. And I mean, what kind of exit do you want?

[B]

I would like to get positions for like 4 to 5 x EBITDA within two years in the 10 x plus range.

[A]

Well, who wants to. Okay, I'm going to say it back to you. So basically like you'd want to make like 3 or 4 million bucks on a sale.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Who would be an acquirer for a business like this? Who's the buyer?

[B]

Big media distribution companies. There's a whole bunch of moving into westernizing this Japanese ip. There's some pretty big players. Multiple billions of dollars in space now.

[A]

Yeah, but if they're buying for the.

[B]

Company list and all the exclusive IP exclusive rights.

[A]

Yeah. I have two pieces of relatively kind of maybe bad news. Bad news number one is that multibillion dollar companies don't write $4 million checks. It's de minimis. It doesn't move the needle. The second issue is that the nature of what you do is not that complicated. I can just have the show and make my own T shirt. I'm not saying this because I want to blow your balloon up. That's not the. That's not my point. I'm just kidding because I want to help. So you're all in anime. I mean, I mean, what about anime creators? There's tons of those even in that niche.

[B]

Yes. This is what we're looking at doing next is building out a really solid ambassador program and scaling through it.

[A]

You could build, I think the ambassador program. So if we're talking about high leverage.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I think the ambassador program is really smart for a couple of reasons. Thing one is that each of the ambassadors themselves, once you. You can. They could go promote each of these other products and then make money. Like you build your own functionally, a tik tok shop of T shirts via ambassadors who are pushing them because they think the T shirt sick that's not that hard of a push and a lot of people would sell that. Right. You'll then see which ambassadors have the most pull. So you get early data and then what I was talking about earlier, with predictive data, you will then be able to say, oh, these here's. We have a thousand ambassadors of people who are micro and nano creators and maybe mega creators around anime and we're going to make T shirts for the top hundred of them and do drop so that every week we do two drops a week for these creators and they're going to go promote other T shirts for the premium brands that you were talking about the IP throughout the year. But you. But they themselves will do two drops for themselves which will pull away fucking harder anyways.

[B]

Okay, so to just to make sure I understand this, it would be partnering with larger creators doing drops relevant to their audience building relationship and then that would also double dip where they would promote for our exclusive IP releases as well. That's actually a really good idea.

[A]

All right, thanks.

[B]

I'm all the creators. All right.

[A]

There you go, brother. Have a good man. I'm going to go chat. Okay, so I am starting a SaaS on property due diligence inspection services for buyers interested and serious about buying one or more property. Should I hire inspectors or operate a platform model? I honestly dude, I think you'll find out like, I think you like you'll take a bet. And I started Allen and was like, oh, we're going to build lead nurture for small businesses. This will be a home run. And then I found out that agency owners were actually our best, our best customer. So you'll probably depending on how different the I'll say platforms are significantly harder to build. So I think B2B SaaS is a way safer bet. I mean as a co founder of School, I can tell you it is not easy to do. And the hardest part is the part that School is already through. But it's the five years of going from, you know, every single person saying can I white label this? Can I white label this? And you having no real value proposites like someday this will be really valuable when it's a marketplace. But once you turn that corner because you make the product so good, then the marketplace component, if you're saying true a platform model. But I would the reason platforms get the multiples they do is because it's so, so expensive and so hard to do. I would prefer a B2B SaaS model if I was, if I was a betting man and it Was my life. N equals 1. You can't live 10 lives or 20 lives. I would probably, but if you're like, I have to be a trillionaire, then if that's the thing, then you got to go platform. Okay, okay. Actually, I'm gonna answer this other one. Rowdy Adventures. I have a patent that will be pending in eight weeks. What would you recommend to do in preparation for that? I've already been working on finding this cheapest manufacturer to get the property price parts down. All right, so I've got good news and I got bad news. So patents, believe it or not, don't mean shit unless, guess what, you have a legal budget to defend them. So I have a five person team, full time in house that all they do is take downs. Every week we take down 50, 100, 200 plus accounts. All those scam things where people try and sell my stuff or the impersonator account, like all that stuff that happens, like we have a full legal team that gets them delisted, gets their ad account shut down, gets them removed from social media, gets their Shopify pages down, gets their processes removed. That's a whole process. But that only works if you defend it. And so basically, in the eyes of the law, if you do not defend your patents or your ip, they, they're not that defensible. Also, like the idea like business is much more ruthless and cutthroat than you think it is because like people will just steal your shit and then say, what are you going to do? Right? And then it's going to be a multi. It's a long legal process to prove how close is it? Is this fair competition? There's a lot of other stuff. So having a patent in of itself does not in any way guarantee success. You're still going to have to market it. The patent has to be around something that truly is core, that no one else can reproduce around the product. And so basically you still got to start a business, you still got to make the business make money. And then when you have some of that money and you start to get successful, that is when the dupes will start flowing in the duplicates. And then at that point, you need to start allocating a certain amount of capital to continue to defend the ip. As far as we're concerned, until the business is successful, the patent means nothing. Okay, so who else we got?

[C]

Hey, Alex.

[A]

Hello, sir.

[C]

Hi, my name is Sam. My business partner and I run a membership site for real estate agents where they basically get daily social media templates, lead magnets, training videos, all this stuff to help them save time and get better at Instagram.

[A]

Okay, so it's a membership. What do you give them on a monthly basis?

[C]

A lot of it is just daily social media templates. So 30 days of content that they can edit, customize to their own personal branding post on social media. And then there's a library of like, little lead magnet things that they can customize again and use on their Instagram and training videos to help them set all up their Instagram, all that stuff.

[A]

But mostly it's going to be the content templates.

[C]

Yeah, it's a content membership.

[A]

Okay, got it. Okay, so how many people you got? What do you charge?

[C]

Yes, we charge $49 a month. We have just under 300 members.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And yeah, I mean, we do just under sort of 20k a month and we take home 75, 80% of that.

[A]

Cool, got it. So what's the issue?

[C]

Yeah, so my question is, what's churn?

[A]

Real quick, what's churn?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, hovers around 12%.

[A]

Monthly. Yeah, monthly. Okay, got it. Do you have any metrics that like, after a certain point, people continue to stick?

[C]

We've only been in business for just over a year, so it's hard to get that like 12 month kind of stick number. But monthly it's 12%.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you why this is important. If let's say it's 12%. Well, 12% is tough because that's like you lose all the customers by the end of the year almost. Okay, what's sales velocity right now? Meaning monthly sales units sold between, you know, 50amonth?

[C]

40, 50 months.

[A]

50Amonth.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, got it. Okay. You're still growing, but slow.

[C]

We're getting to the point where churn is starting to catch up with us.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And that kind of leads into my question being, you know, how do you kind of decide whether to push or pivot when there's sort of these structural challenges, or at least perceived structural challenges in your market, and you're maybe looking at a different market, a different niche that might be better for your business or for your offer, essentially, as in not marketing, as in not doing it for real estate agents, maybe doing it for a different market.

[A]

Why do you think this other market is going to be different than real estate agents?

[C]

Yeah, so I mean, generally real estate agents, from my perspective, there is a lot of structural volatility in terms of their income. And obviously with SMBs, that's a given. It's probably worth real estate agents, and they don't make a lot of money. There's not a lot of willingness to pay. And basically what we've seen in our market, there is a market leader with over 5,000 members, been doing it for six plus years now and a couple others with 1,000 plus. We are a late entrant into this market. This is something we started to do just because we thought we might as well pick proven business model. And we've seen other content memberships in other industries like accountants, one with aesthetic nurse practitioners start at the same time as us, have the same Instagram following. We've gone through their funnels and they've like 5x in terms of what we've been able to do growth wise. And we're wondering trying to figure out.

[B]

Why that is essentially.

[A]

Do you have full transparency into their numbers?

[C]

I have full transparency into a few of their. Just the amount of members they've had and the amount of Instagram followers they've had. I've kind of gone through their funnel a little bit. I know that they don't necessarily run.

[B]

A ton of ads.

[C]

Like it's not like they're doing a ton of ad spend.

[A]

For example, do you know what their churn is and how many members they have?

[C]

I can give you one example of one that has. We have like 50k on Instagram, they have 40k on Instagram. We're kind of friendly with them. And I know they have like 1800 members.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And that's, that's been a year. And their sales velocity from what I can tell is like 100 plus a month, maybe 150, 200 months.

[A]

Okay. And they start at the same time as you basically.

[C]

Yeah. Similar following all that. I mean the only they have no big competitors.

[A]

Yeah, well, I mean I think going to an underserved marketplace is not a terrible idea. The reason I'm like more okay with this is that you guys are still really early, you know what I mean? Like it's kind of. It's pretty much a brand new business. I do think that like is this business that you have fixable? Yes, if the market leader I'll put quotes around that has 5,000 people. Well, there's like a million Realtors, so there's lots of opportunity that's still there. Like no one really owns the market. So those are kind of the plus sides. I'm going to also bet that like to your point, it might not be that Realtor like Realtors, of course if you take them in aggregate are have volatility. But if you look at the top 5% of realtors, like they, they make, they're full time. Right. If you have a lot of part timers who are in there, then you have huge amounts of churn because they're not even, they're barely even business owners. Right. So you could probably fix our value prop, though. Yeah. Okay, go ahead.

[C]

Yeah, just in terms of our value prop, it's mean if you're a top 1% agent, you probably have some sort of social media manager or media team or a low cost alternative to that essentially. So it's kind of just a feature, not a bug, I guess, in our business.

[A]

Okay, zooming all the way out. What do you want to happen? Do you want to sell this thing to make more money.

[B]

Short term?

[C]

Make more money for sure.

[A]

That's what we're Right.

[B]

Cash flow.

[A]

The thing is that you're selling 50amonth, which is actually really not a lot from a sales velocity perspective, even the size of that market and that like, that is the problem. You could sell like if you have a million person marketplace, it's like we could be selling a thousand of these a month. Right. And then the churn, Even though it's 12%, it's like, well, we just know that we're going to get eight months on average times 50 bucks. So we're going to make $400 per customer. As long as CAC is, you know, $100 or less. Cool. We have high margins, we're good to go. And you just take the money and then you do whatever you're gonna, you're gonna do. That's like short term, you could do that. And I think targeting people who've done a sale within the last 30 days or something like that, maybe they're not the 1%, but they're like quote on the way, they're quote, reinvesting their business. And if they just had a sale in the last 30 days, they have some cash. There's some elements here that you can do also. Like, are you doing a big, do you do a big promotion for getting annuals?

[C]

Yeah, we try our best. We do two months off. We're starting to add other bonuses in terms of the annual as well to try to push more people towards annuals.

[A]

But yeah, right now LTV is eight months for you, so you might as well give four and pull the cash flow forward since it's equivalent and churn on those customers will be lower. Right, cool. All right, so that's thing one. Now to the larger question of like, should you go after a blue or a blue or ocean market. And in so doing, like, does that mean you're going to start another Instagram page and like build that whole thing up and do that game?

[C]

Essentially, that's the thing that we're relatively best at, the thing we've invested all the time into. It's something that I think we can do, but it's obviously going to take time and time away from everything else we do.

[A]

Okay, I'll tell you what I want. I don't think it's a bad idea. I'll say that. I don't think it's a bad idea. Like normally I just say like, no, stick with your existing thing. I do think you should stick with this thing a little longer. And I'll tell you why. I think that it would behoove you to learn which types of Realtors churn versus the ones that don't. And there's probably two or three characteristics that separate the people who do versus the ones that don't. Number one. Number two, I do think you do make a better incentive to get people to prepay for annual. Number three, is there a version of this business that like on top of this you sell some sort of maybe $500 a month thing as an upsell or $1,000 a month thing that does have have some sort of managed element to it that you have lots of AI and automation built into it so that you can do with high gross margin, right?

[C]

Yeah, definitely. Something we thought about just adding upsells, adding different offers.

[A]

Yeah. I can appreciate the simplicity of the business, believe me. I just feel like you have a lot more to learn from this before doing the next thing rather than just saying like, oh, it's the avatar. It's just because that's the obvious thing that everyone says and the market leader, and I'll put quotes here, has 5,000 people. It's not that many.

[B]

No.

[C]

And I've tried not to just say it's the avatar to the best of my abilities.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[C]

It seems like, yeah, it's the easy way.

[A]

So that's what I would do. All right, so I would try to learn more about the customers, number one. Number two, I'd have the annual prepay thing. Number three, I would start running ads and see what your cost of acquisition is with ads and having that strong pre pre prepayment thing. I would also have a self liquidating offer on the thank you page that could be even higher than just the annual. Right. Because that could just improve the funnel metrics overall. Maybe Like a two or three item. Yeah. And I'll say higher ticket with quotes here. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Like 197 to 397 somewhere in there, which might be like we have all these accounts. We'll tell you we're going to give you the 100 best performing pieces of real estate concept over the last year. I would buy that. All right. That's what I would do. I think you need to learn this game better and then you'll have more perspective and you might just break through and then just become the market leader.

[C]

Okay, thank you. Really appreciate everything you do.

[A]

Appreciate you too. Okay, Mr. Mosey, that's Mr. Mozi to you. As a video editor who's facing client acquisition problems, I get scared thinking of AI and if I even have a scope in the future, bruh. Why would you be scared of AI when AI makes your job a hundred times easier to scale? Like for the short to medium term there is tremendous leverage. Like the everyone knows quote knows that AI is going to come for everyone's job. Okay? Internet is going to disrupt every industry, okay? And it has. But guess what? There's also businesses that still don't operate on the Internet, still use fax machines. So like it's still going to follow an adoption curve of early adopters all the way to laggards. And some people never adopt it at all. And those businesses can still make money. Real talk. Some people use fax machines, still make money. Some people only do in person business and only use, you know, paper and clipboard, still make money. And so I wouldn't fear it. You always want to harness it. Because as long as humans can compete against humans with tools, that's how it's always been for the dawn of mankind. As soon as it's AI versus human, AI will win. And so as far as I'm concerned right now, use the AI to get as much leverage as you can. Maybe you could 100x your scale using technology rather than fearing it. Last caller. Hello, Senor or senorita.

[B]

Oh, can you hear me?

[A]

That's a senor, hello. Talk to me about the business.

[B]

So I do robotic cotton candy machines. Essentially that's our main product, robotics.

[A]

And what?

[B]

Two different people.

[A]

Hold on.

[B]

Robotic cutting, canning machines.

[A]

Robotic cutting and canning machines.

[B]

No, robotic cotton candy.

[A]

Like the cotton candy Robo cotton candy. Got it. All right.

[B]

Yes, you can put it like that. Exactly. Okay, so we have two makers that we sell to. We have entrepreneurs who buy our machine as an investment and put them in Locations. And then we have actual businesses who we do one of two things with. We place it there for free, give them a percent of sales, or they can buy it for their business. Now we're at a point right now where we have a bunch of entrepreneurs coming into the account who want to buy a machine, but they don't have enough locations to put them at. So what we're trying to figure out is. We're trying to figure out the best way to get locations.

[A]

I love this business. This is cool.

[B]

And we're trying to basically build an outbound funnel.

[A]

Dude, this is a cool business. I like this business. Okay, so give me, give me some. Give me some cotton candy money. Give me some cotton candy money. What does that. Obviously it depends on the location of foot traffic and blah, blah, blah. But what does the average cotton candy robo cotton candy machine make? I've been waiting all day for a.

[B]

Probably you're looking at.

[A]

Go ahead.

[B]

At a trampoline park. It's not amazing. It's about a thousand bucks a month. But at a higher tier venue. So think like museums, museum parks, water parks. We have machines that are doing 10 to 15,000amonth.

[A]

Okay. But average is 1,000.

[B]

I would say average is about three or 4,000.

[A]

Oh, okay. Average or median?

[B]

Average.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Median is probably about that range. There's a lot of outliers.

[A]

Okay. Okay, cool. Three to four thousand dollars a month. All right, I can rock with that. Four grand a month making 1,000 a week selling robo cotton candy. Okay, so can you supply all these machines to these people want to buy them?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, so you have the supply. All right, so then what again is the constraint here?

[B]

So the constraint is getting enough businesses who want for us to put the machine. We have entrepreneurs who want to buy it, but they don't want to buy it unless they have a location. So we need to find locations.

[A]

They need to find the location. They need to find the location.

[B]

So that's what we've been doing. But that's the main constraint. If we could find them locations, a, we could charge for it. And then maybe you just take it ourselves if it's a good location.

[A]

Well, that's what I'm saying is like if they like the value of the entrepreneur is that they front capital and work.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you just find the location, then you should just own the location. Right. Like, why bother to have in them there? It's like, why split it?

[B]

Usually we're looking for locations in their areas because it's a. It's A servicing thing.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Like, I don't want to have to hire a new guy in Connecticut for one location. Right.

[A]

To service the RoboScott candy machine to somebody else.

[B]

Yeah. It takes a lot to service.

[A]

Okay, fine.

[B]

What we do actually is we take a percent of revenue that their machine makes under their service. So that's the second line of business.

[A]

Okay, got it.

[B]

Either way, we're making money.

[A]

I love this business, dude. Okay, cool. So you just need to go generate leads for businesses that want to make money for no dollars down. And you're having trouble with that?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

How are you advertising?

[B]

We tried old ads like LinkedIn. Didn't work. Meta didn't work. The only thing you really. I've seen success.

[C]

Hold on.

[B]

Is owning the businesses or emailing them.

[A]

Okay. All right. Okay. So emailing is working. I'm not even going to touch the first statement that you said because I just want to light my hair on fire. Okay, I'm going to go off for a second, then we're going to circle back to this email thing for everyone. If you run meta ads and it didn't work, it doesn't mean that meta ads don't work for your thing. It means that your meta ads and your conversion process didn't work. Not that meta ads don't work. Okay, rant over, back to you. Emailing people and then asking them if they want free money has gotten response rates. All right, so what are the metrics of our outbound funnel for our robo cotton candy business?

[B]

What specifically you're interested in?

[A]

Walk me through the funnel.

[B]

Get about 2 to 3 to respond, and out of that, honestly, most will close because it's a really easy thing to sell.

[A]

Okay. You send 100 emails and you get two to three responses and you'll close basically any one response. So let's just say. Let's get really conservative here and say that you close one out of 100. 100 emails?

[B]

Yeah, sure.

[A]

Okay, great. So one out of 100 emails. Okay. And what's the cost of a machine?

[B]

About 15,000. But again, they're not an issue. Entrepreneurship.

[A]

15,000. Okay. What do you make on a $15,000 machine? Up front?

[B]

50%.

[A]

All right, so then what stops you from sending 10,000 emails a day?

[B]

One of the things I'm working, I'm working on doing that and building up.

[A]

Cold calling files and building a cold calling business side. Is that what you said?

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Those are the two that work the best.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, like, this is a great business. How can I help you're like, I send 100 emails which takes two seconds and I make $7,500.

[B]

Yeah, that is something that's a lot easier. My main focus has been for the past couple weeks has been the cold calling aspect. How do you help bring people on? How do you train them to do this? I watched a video acid you made. It was like an hour long presentation about like BDRs to like the ratio of those people to sales people. Can we kind of like just walk you through like the setup you would have for something like this? Because right now our salespeople control the entire funnel. They find the lead, they contact them and it's messy. There's nothing less things in the pipeline because people are busy closing deals.

[A]

Essentially everything's good man. You just have it. You have a process that works and you haven't scaled it up yet. I mean the returns on this are stupid.

[B]

It's insane. It's ridiculous.

[A]

So like you're winning. It's like you gotta hire some headcount. Okay. It's like every SDR can probably bring like. I mean, my God, dude. I mean this is absurd. I don't even know. I don't even know where to start, man. It's like, I mean we just have to like, you have to warm up domains. You have to have multiple domains. We have to send, we have to get to a thousand emails a day. We're gonna inbound 20ish qualified leads. Those 25 qualified leads are going to talk to one setter and you have one close. Like you don't need, like you don't even need to have an army to make this thing make crazy money. Let's say you had A team of four setters. One closer from this model, like four setters. Jesus. Four setters. You could get to 10,000 emails a day. So you get a hundred leads a day.

[B]

I'm glad you said that. So I think our problem is it's the opposite. We have four closers and we actually don't have a single setter.

[A]

Well then they got to work their leads.

[B]

Yeah, they hunt their own food, so to speak is what we say.

[A]

No, I'm saying like you need to basically, let me say it this way. They have to hunt their leads. You can hand them some leads that you generate from email outbound and do it as a round robin, first come, first serve, first person who grabs it as soon as you put it in.

[B]

Would you hire someone specifically for outbound for email and call same person? Like how would you go about growing that like the pipeline itself, the very beginning.

[A]

Well, the thing is, is that right now, given the size, like if the close rate on these deals is already so high, you could have the closers just work these leads. So basically everything that's email inbound, just hand them straight to a closer and boom, they close the deal. Right? That's all it is. Now they still have to work their phones and go get deals for themselves and that's fine. Like our closers still do two hours outbound every day because it keeps the, the short sharp and it keeps them appreciating the leads that we send.

[B]

Interesting, interesting. Okay.

[A]

Now SDR is though, dude. I mean you could get a list of just business owners work that. And there's also, I mean right now there's the AI dialers are getting exceptionally good, especially for this type of thing. But you could even do this old school. And so like fundamentally, either you can install SDR team or you can have an AI SDR team. You have so much opportunity. You, you have four sales guys. I would like my immediate next action, cause I'm only gonna give you one, is that I would go from 100 emails to. I would say I'd go to 5,000 emails a day instead of a hundred. That's what I would focus on. All my focus is how do we go from 100 to 5,000 emails a day?

[B]

Would you do it or would you have done.

[A]

No, I would do it. You can automate most of this stuff. You don't need them to do it. It can come from their account, but they're not doing it. That's it. You literally need high level email automation with some AI personalization on the front end. Warm up the domain, set up multiple names, one for each guy. Probably have backups as well, to send the emails to them. Each guy gets 10ish plus leads a day from these emails. Closes six. And you're at. Dude, you're at a lot.

[B]

Okay, copy that. I appreciate it.

[A]

All right. That was from Aussie hotline, so appreciate you all. Peace and blessings be upon you. Rock and roll. Provide value and don't break the law by.