The Hard Truth About Growth Most Founders Avoid. Hormozi Hotline feat. Leila Hormozi | Ep 918

Summary

The Game w/ Alex Hormozi — Ep. 976:

"The Hard Truth About Growth Most Founders Avoid" — Hormozi Hotline feat. Leila Hormozi

Release Date: December 10, 2025
Host: Alex Hormozi
Special Guest: Leila Hormozi

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Game is a fast-paced, high-impact advice session where Alex Hormozi and Leila Hormozi—two of the most influential voices in business and entrepreneurship—take live calls from founders, marketers, media creators, and operators. They dissect real growth problems, debunk common misconceptions about scaling, and illuminate the hard truths that most founders ignore on their path from $100M to $1B. The Hormozis’ signature directness, wisdom, and humor shine as they tackle issues ranging from client acquisition, churn, offer optimization, content scale, team building, and more.

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Key Discussion Points, Insights, and Memorable Moments

1. Scaling a Performance-Based Marketing Agency (Joshua)

[00:28–10:06]

Situation:

• Joshua runs a niche agency for kitchen/bath remodelers, $8k/month revenue, $7k profit.
• Operates a pay-per-show model: $1k setup fee, $500-600 per qualified appointment.
• Wants advice on scaling and whether to ditch former (tree service) clients.

Insights and Advice:

• Sample size is too small:
  “You need to get more data... at that point, that sample size is so small.”
  —Leila Hormozi [03:12]
• Don’t kill cash flow:
  “I don’t think you should cut your cash flow. You only have like four customers, right?”
  —Alex Hormozi [02:04]
• Watch your margins for scale:
  “Your cost per show relative to the revenue per show is kind of low... My fear is when you take this to scale, you’ll be less efficient and your margins are going to compress.”
  —Alex Hormozi [04:02]
• Go upmarket ASAP:
  “You’re going to want to earn the right to go up market as fast as you can.”
  —Alex Hormozi [04:56]
• Avoid serving clients outside your ideal avatar:
  “Don’t try to serve an avatar that isn’t best for you... that’s the biggest mistake people make.”
  —Leila Hormozi [05:41]
• Retention and Predictability:
  “Customers who retain the most are the ones who understand how much they’re going to pay.”
  —Leila Hormozi [06:28]
• “Ask onboarding clients what their budget is... you need to show them you’re OK spending as much as they’re comfortable to start. You can coach them up from there once you get buy-in.”
  —Leila Hormozi [07:25]

Memorable Moments:

• “Number go up. Good.” —Leila [09:13]
• “Literally just add a zero to what the people that you’re trying to attract are, and you will make significantly more money and love your life more.” —Alex [09:17]

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2. Scaling a Local Media Newsletter (Jaz)

[10:09–17:37]

Situation:

• Jaz runs Winnipeg Digest, a city-focused newsletter/media company.
• 110k audience (40k on the list, 70k social), $10k/mo revenue, $6k/mo profit.
• Concern: Running out of advertisers or “ad space” as they grow.

Insights and Advice:

• Don’t worry about running out of advertisers:
  “There’s 110,000 people in the city... You can for sure get enough advertisers.”
  —Alex Hormozi [11:28]
• Ad space is constrained by audience size and CPMs:
  “You’re not going to run out of ad space... You’re going to have to make sure you’re pricing your CPMs appropriately.”
  —Alex Hormozi [12:18]
• Stay focused rather than niche down or branch out:
  “I want you to just do more. You need way more.”
  —Alex Hormozi [14:36]
• Multiply ad inventory by splitting lists:
  “If you triple your list size... you can send 12 emails to these people, 12 emails to these people, and 12 emails to these people. List A, B and C... and you can charge that many more times.”
  —Alex Hormozi [17:13]
• Monetize with SLO (Self-Liquidating Offer):
  “Offer a 10 pack of guides... Like magazines do it once, make that 10 pack $37... If you can get 1 in 37 people to buy, your cost of acquisition is zero.”
  —Alex Hormozi [15:53]

Memorable Quotes:

• “I feel like I just changed your life.” —Alex [15:47]
• “Do more of this. All you have to do is add a self-liquidating offer on the front end, you’ll be able to grow the hell out of your media.” —Alex [16:54]
• “What? A holiday lights company? That sounds awful.” —Leila [16:54]

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3. Team and Fulfillment Bottlenecks for a Niche Coaching Business

[18:02–28:35]

Situation:

• Caller runs a remote sales coaching fulfillment business (45 communities, $2–4k retainer per client).
• Stuck as the only operator; not scalable.

Insights and Advice:

• Two staffing models:
  1. Full-time junior hires — Fewer to manage; limit is they’ll eventually leave to start their own biz.
     “They see this as a learning opportunity, not an earning opportunity.”
     —Leila Hormozi [25:02]
  2. Fractional/part-time coaches (alumni) — Easier to find, harder to manage but less key-person risk.
     “If you lose one, it’s not a big deal.”
     —Leila Hormozi [25:30]
• Alumni as coaches:
  “Take your most successful alumni and say: hey, want to make extra $5k/month and give back to the community?”
  —Alex Hormozi [26:42]
• Premium 'screened' talent upsell:
  “Have a tier that’s $2,500 or $5,000 per head—and these ones are screened by me... That could add $150k to $300k a month.”
  —Alex Hormozi [27:47]
• Memorable moment:
  “Call that a money model right there. I should write a book about that.”
  —Alex Hormozi [28:21]

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4. Plateaued Online Bootcamp (Brian, Tarsity I.O.)

[28:52–35:35]

Situation:

• Brian's coding bootcamp (adults, $9,200 per student), plateaued at 30–40 students per year.
• Most leads from podcast (10k downloads/mo), has 30k LinkedIn followers.

Insights and Advice:

• Not enough top-of-funnel:
  “No one knows you exist... Podcasts are very, very difficult to grow because there’s very low suggestibility.”
  —Alex Hormozi [31:50]
• Repurpose and amplify content:
  “Instead of making more podcasts, make more LinkedIn content... Repurpose that content, turn posts into YouTube longs, shorts.”
  —Alex Hormozi [32:01]
• Lead magnets:
  “Give the first module away for free—something really valuable... you’ll get way more leads.”
  —Alex Hormozi [33:14]
• Organic first:
  “You have so much meat on the bone with organic right now... I’d 5x down.”
  —Alex Hormozi [35:19]

Memorable Quotes:

• “Video turns into audio much easier than audio turns into video.”
  —Alex Hormozi [34:54]

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5. Optimizing the Offer for a Pest Control Company (Josh)

[36:02–39:37]

Situation:

• Josh owns a brick & mortar pest control, $1M/year, wants to get to $5M.
• Bundling all services increases close rate, but decreases upsell potential and margins.

Insights and Advice:

• Follow the data—don’t overthink:
  “If your close rate’s fine when you have the bundle, sell the bundle. Unless there’s some other major problem.”
  —Alex Hormozi [38:41]
• Simple solution:
  “Raise the price on the bundle... tack on 20 (percent), double your margins. They won’t even know.”
  —Alex Hormozi [38:52]

Memorable Quotes:

• “We have this thing everyone wants to buy, but it has lower margins. Well, especially going to upscale, they don’t know the difference.”
  —Alex Hormozi [39:13]

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6. Agency Growth and Exit Strategy in Martial Arts Niche (Paul)

[39:52–50:26]

Situation:

• Paul’s agency for martial arts schools ($420k revenue/$100k profit/year), stuck due to churn and volatile clients.
• Considering pivoting into brick & mortar kids education or continuing agency.

Insights and Advice:

• Understand retention and market volatility:
  “Martial arts studios... have high churn... That volatility is reflected in your business and volatility is reflected in your business creates a business that is not valuable.”
  —Alex Hormozi [43:06]
• Leverage your acquisition skills in higher-retention industries:
  “Find an industry that already has a product/service people don’t churn out of... Apply your skill there.”
  —Alex Hormozi [44:21]
• Match your skills to opportunity level:
  “You have a Level 8 skill using on a Level 3 opportunity... Can you get a Level 8 opportunity?”
  —Leila Hormozi [45:57]
• Linear versus exponential thinking:
  “Pick an opportunity that’s worth the pain, because it’s going to be pain no matter what.”
  —Leila Hormozi [47:47]
• Just Start:
  “I’ve never felt ready before I tried something. You get ready by starting.”
  —Leila Hormozi [48:52]

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7. Early-Stage Creator: Scaling YouTube in the Outdoors Niche (Devin)

[50:51–59:27]

Situation:

• Devin has a small YouTube (2k subs, 250k monthly views on shorts), wants to quit job and earn $10k/month.
• Posting isn't consistent; wonders if he should monetize/grow other social channels.

Insights and Advice:

• Consistency is everything:
  “YouTube is a game of consistency... If you want to get to great, it’s consistent improvement over time.”
  —Leila Hormozi [53:02]
• Long content for depth:
  “Make longs to deepen your influence... Just repurpose shorts into longer videos.”
  —Alex Hormozi [51:52]
• Ignore monetization until hitting consistency:
  “I wouldn’t even think about monetizing right now. Just get out one short a day, one long a week.”
  —Alex Hormozi [54:05]
• Environment is key:
  “Put yourself in an environment where it makes it easy to achieve your goals, not hard.”
  —Leila Hormozi [55:22]
• Elimination of alternatives:
  “Commitment is the elimination of alternatives.”
  —Alex Hormozi [55:44]
• Build confidence through keeping promises to self:
  “If you can't stick with a commitment to yourself, you degrade the trust you have with yourself.”
  —Leila Hormozi [57:12]
• Social pressure and loneliness:
  “Expect people around you to think it’s weird, not cool... In order to be exceptional, you have to become the exception.”
  —Alex Hormozi [58:31]

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8. Rapid-Fire Mini Q&A and Tactical Advice

[59:32–66:00]

Hiring the right person:
“Be the right person.” —Leila Hormozi [59:32]

Marketing agency for churches:

• Start with outreach, get 10 success stories for referrals before charging.

Posting daily for fitness content:

• “Look at the content you hate, ask why—there’s your piece of content.” —Leila Hormozi [60:19]
• “Don’t dunk on people. Make better stuff instead of tearing others down.” —Alex Hormozi [61:05]

New event companies vs. entrenched competitors:

• Use “small dog” frame: “It’s not my company vs their company, it's me vs employee #86—they won’t care like I do.” —Alex Hormozi [61:44]

Monthly vs one-time offers:

• Test both, compare earnings per click (EPC). Upfront cash matters for cash flow, test for LTV.
  —Alex Hormozi [63:30–65:58]

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9. Scaling a Senior Care Center: Outcompeting Questionable Actors

[66:13–72:19]

Situation:

• Dan runs a center for seniors/disabled adults; wants growth but faces competitors who pay (illegally) for referrals.
• Must market to: a) members, b) caregivers, c) referral sources (physicians, social workers).

Insights and Advice:

• Don’t dwell on the “illegal competitor” narrative:
  “That’s just something taking up room in your mind... toss it out.”
  —Alex Hormozi [68:46]
• Prioritize high-leverage referrers:
  “If a doctor’s office can mean 200 patients, go there.”
  —Alex Hormozi [70:17]
• Master affiliate/integration playbooks:
  “Read the affiliates chapter in $100M Leads... launch and integrate: get them to send an email to all their people. Offer to hang at their office to meet patients after.”
  —Alex Hormozi [70:53]
• Creative “placement” Vs. kickbacks:
  “You can rent space at the office—different than a kickback—so you’re compliant.”
  —Alex Hormozi [72:13]

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Raise the price on the bundle... tack on 20, double your margins.” —Alex, [38:52]
• “Don’t try to serve an avatar that isn’t best for you.” —Leila, [05:41]
• “You get ready by starting.” —Leila, [48:52]
• “Commitment is the elimination of alternatives.” —Alex, [55:44]
• “You have a Level 8 skill using on a Level 3 opportunity... Can you get a Level 8 opportunity?” —Leila, [45:57]
• “Small dog frame: It’s not my company vs their company, it's me vs employee #86.” —Alex, [61:44]

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Key Takeaways From the Hormozis

• Focus on fundamentals: The biggest bottleneck is almost always getting more (better) data, more leads, higher-quality clients, or improving basic offer structure—not fancy tactics.
• Move upmarket fast: Avoid getting stuck with low-budget, high-churn clients. The same ops team can serve much bigger, higher-value clients with less stress and more profit.
• Retention > Acquisition for value: For exit-scale and long-term wealth, choose business models (or verticals) with natural stickiness and high customer retention.
• Consistency compounds: In content and business alike, nothing substitutes for consistent, high-volume execution.
• Don’t overcomplicate it: When in doubt, keep your offerings simple, play to your strengths, and don’t “solve” problems that aren’t confirmed by data.
• Think bigger: Most founders have skills that exceed their current opportunity. Find and pursue exponential opportunities, even if you don’t feel ready.

For more in-depth tactical frameworks, check resources like $100M Leads and $100M Offers, or the free courses and podcasts at acquisition.com.

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Episode Structure

• [00:01–10:06] Performance Marketing Agency scaling problems
• [10:09–17:37] City media/newsletter scale and monetization
• [18:02–28:35] Fulfillment, team, and monetization in coaching
• [28:52–35:35] Bootcamp plateau: marketing and funnel issues
• [36:02–39:37] Pest control service: offer and pricing optimization
• [39:52–50:26] Martial arts agency churn, exit strategy, linear vs exponential
• [50:51–59:27] Content creator (YouTube): scale, consistency, and environment
• [59:32–66:00] Rapid-fire Q&A (recruiting, content, pricing frameworks)
• [66:13–72:19] Senior care: overcoming shady competition and activating affiliate referrals

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Hormozi Hotline delivers direct, honest, and immediately actionable business advice in a refreshing, no-fluff style. For entrepreneurs at any stage, it’s a relentless reminder that “the fundamentals are the shortcut,” and the fastest growth comes by attacking the real problems founders most want to ignore.

Transcript

[Alex Hormozi]

Guys, I have a special, special treat for you. This is, this has only happened one other time in human history. This is historic. So you guys, you guys are going to get this. And it's come from downtown Vegas. My lovely wife, Lady Layla herself, Queen Lei has come to join us and spit some fire on her mosey hotline. And we're going to be taking the calls together.

[Joshua]

First of all, thank you for this opportunity.

[Leila Hormozi]

Thank you.

[Joshua]

So yeah, my name is Joshua. I run a performance based marketing agency called asnuts for kitchen and bathroom removals and outdoor living companies. Currently at 8k per month, profit is 7k. We work on a paper show model and position them for high end projects. So not like discounts etc without retainers or ad spend on their end. So we take the risk there. Right now it costs me around. Yeah, right now it cost me around $250 to acquire a customer. On the last. That's where I ran the app. I have a $1,000 setup fee and I charge 500 to $600 per qualified appointment show. To get them one appointment show. Yeah, to get them one appointment show. It costs at the worst times. Like I'm aiming for 210. If I don't get them at least 10 appointments in the first month, I refund them the setup fee. Now currently, to let you know, I do have two clienteles but I have three other clients still in tree service.

[Alex Hormozi]

Which I kept for cash flow because.

[Joshua]

That'S what I ran before. And my question is, from just what I told you guys now and from your experience, what do you see which I currently don't see. So what would you do in my position to absolutely like scale this or maybe do differently?

[Alex Hormozi]

Are you keeping the customers.

[Joshua]

Until I'm basically, I wanted to keep them until I'm at 10k sufficiently in remodeling and then completely ditch.

[Alex Hormozi]

So the question was, I mean I don't think you should cut your cash flow. You have, you only have like four customers, right?

[Joshua]

Currently at.

Five.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, so you have five customers and that means that if you're doing $8,000 a month. You said 8,000 top line, 7,000 bottom line. But you said your cost of getting a show is 210 on 500. Those margins don't make sense. What am I missing?

[Joshua]

So for the 8k, I'm not basically.

Counting in the 200 which is lost it just counting the 300.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay.

[Joshua]

The one guy I'm currently, the one guy I'm currently onboarding. So I only have one guy currently on it. Yeah, the other guys currently on onboarding.

[Alex Hormozi]

And when you say guys on onboarding, you mean a client?

[Joshua]

Yeah, the one company I'm currently onboarding to get them into the $500 thing. I got his $11,000 setup fee, basically, but he's not actively.

Yes, currently I'm looking to scale this now, but.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, I mean, go for it. I know you're going to.

[Leila Hormozi]

Well, I was just thinking that we have to run some more water through.

[Joshua]

The well, so I need to get more data.

[Leila Hormozi]

You need. Yeah, you need to get more data. I mean, at that point, that sample size is so small. I think we need to focus on getting a bigger sample size.

And then we can go from there.

[Joshua]

I understand.

[Jaz]

Well, what is, what would you say?

[Joshua]

What is just your opinion about the model, the offer? And, you know, I'm running this because all other agencies are basically running this paper appointment and. Yeah, yeah, they, you know, and they pay for the ads, but, like, the trust is really low in that market. So I was thinking about doing that.

[Alex Hormozi]

Dude, I think everything's fine. I think everything's fine. The, the. I would say one risk that I see that's relatively significant is your cost per show relative to the revenue per show is kind of low. I would say the guys who I see, like, really murder it are at like 20%. So you're, you're at like 60. Sorry, 40. So I would, I want to see if we could drive that down because my fear of the business is that when you take this to scale, you'll be less efficient and your margins are going to compress. That's like, I would say, like, that's kind of like my biggest red flag overall. The model of lead costs and arbitrage, there's nothing wrong with it. I've seen some massive agencies that run that model. The next issue that you're going to run into is the types of businesses that you're serving. So you're going to want to go up market for people who can spend 50,000, 100,000, $200,000 a month in ads. That's. That's what you're going to want to go after, because the volatility of your business is going to be predicated on the volatility of their business. So when you go after, and this is super common for small business owners, for everyone who's listening, is like, you go after. If you go. Most people who are poor, I'm not saying you're poor, but like, most people are starting out in business, go after other people who are Also smarting starting out a business, because that's where your confidence level is. But their business, they don't know anything either, right? So it's the blind leading the blind. And you're like, what's wrong with my business? All these people are churning. And they're churning because they don't know what the hell they're doing in their business either. And so you're going to want to earn the right to go a market as fast as you can.

And if you have five clients that pay you what they're paying now versus having five clients and each one pays $100,000 a month, you could run the same ops and have 100 times the revenue.

[Leila Hormozi]

I was going to say the next. The next thing that you're going to want to realize is that like, we've done the pay per show model and we also had a software that used to enable the pay per show model. There's two things that you want to watch out for, which is one, when you're doing pay per show, a lot of times the businesses are gonna think, well, if they show, but they don't close, why the fuck am I paying you? And so then you're gonna be really tempted to be like, oh, can I just help them sell these people? I'm just gonna also, maybe I should start a sales agency and close these motherfuckers. That's the next thing that's gonna happen. The second piece to it. And by the way, don't do that. Go upmarket instead. Cause people that are upmarket have their own sales team and they understand that concept that even though you get somebody to show, it doesn't mean that they're guaranteed to close. You still need to have trained salespeople. So do not give in to the temptation. Don't try and serve an avatar that isn't best for you more. That's the biggest mistake people make, which is like you're serving an avatar that isn't your best avatar and you try to go above and beyond for it. You just don't want to do that. The second thing is that, okay, that's like. I feel like that's like 2010.

[Alex Hormozi]

That was good.

[Jaz]

That's fine.

[Leila Hormozi]

The second piece is that with the paper show model, here's the place where it goes wrong, which I saw firsthand, which is why agencies had churn with it, which is that.

Customers want to be able to predict how much money they're going to spend with you. So if you look at churn and you look at customer retention, the Customers who retain the most are the customers who understand how much they're going to pay. And so one thing that you can do is you can give people a range estimate or you can give them a heads up different times through the month as to how much you're going to be billing them. Now it seems contrary because you think, okay, well if I tell them how much they're paying, they're like, oh my God, that's so much. But the reality is actually if they get a bill that's unexpected, that is like it looks and it's like once you get one unexpected bill from a company, it's like by the second one there's a 50% likelihood that they're going to turn. So think about how you can communicate with those customers. Maybe it's every other week, maybe it's every week to show them what their tab looks like.

[Alex Hormozi]

Increment of revenue.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah, or by increment. That's a great one too.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, just like every 5,000, whatever. Every thousand and five, 5,000 they spend. You just let it, you just automatic just letting them know that this is happening. We can turn it off whenever you want.

[Leila Hormozi]

So I think another piece that you could also ask is when you're getting the sale, when you're onboarding them, ask them what their budget is. I know it seems contrary, but it's like if you want to get them to spend more money with you, you also need to show them that you're okay spending as much as they're comfortable to start. Does that make sense? And you can coach them up from there once you get buy in?

[Joshua]

Yeah, okay, yeah, that makes sense. I currently, what I currently do is I built like this lovable thing where I put in the numbers so close rate, average contract value, etc. And basically I do that on the sales call though.

[Alex Hormozi]

So that's a big nugget.

[Joshua]

That's great onboarding because then I can always like weekly tell them like, hey, this is how much you should spend and that's what you should expect in the long term to get a return. So thank you for that. I mean if you were me here, how would you think about going from 8k per month right now to 50k in this exact model as fast as.

[Alex Hormozi]

Possible and Opera S just sustainably. Dude, we answered it. So I want to ask you what do you think we just said? Just I want to make sure you retain.

[Joshua]

That I need to get more data and it's just sell more problem.

[Alex Hormozi]

And.

[Joshua]

And that I should not switch my business model and get done to basically convince me to get them to sell. And also make sure that they know.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

How much they get charged.

And go up market.

[Joshua]

Yes.

[Leila Hormozi]

Off market.

[Joshua]

The one thing I want to. What do you think about the Avatar? 1 million above? Because I don't think anybody. Just go have an opinion on this.

[Alex Hormozi]

Just go up. Just. Just like in your ads or your outreach, look for people who are doing 10 times those numbers.

[Leila Hormozi]

Number go up. Good.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, Big number. Good.

[Joshua]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, cool. Like, thank you. Literally have the same size you have in terms of headcount. Literally, just add a zero to what the people that you're trying to attract are, and you will make significantly more money and love your life more.

Okay, cool. Yeah, thank you. All right.

Should I increase that up to.

[Leila Hormozi]

No, I don't think yet. Dude, it's five people. Yeah, you got to get more water through the well. Also, there's a, like, for everybody listening. Like, it's like, okay, increase your prices. But, like, you haven't even gotten to the threshold of delivery. So until you get to a point where delivery is stressed and you can see how your team and how your company operates when you are stretched when it comes to your client load, do not increase your prices. You increase your prices when you know that your product and your delivery is rock solid. So we got to get more water through the pipes first.

[Joshua]

Thank you very much.

[Alex Hormozi]

I appreciate.

[Leila Hormozi]

Next caller.

[Alex Hormozi]

Next caller.

[Joshua]

Hello.

[Leila Hormozi]

Hi.

[Jaz]

Yeah, super nervous right now, but thank.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

You for the call.

[Alex Hormozi]

You should be terrified.

[Leila Hormozi]

What if I'm nervous?

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Jaz]

My name is Jaz. I run Winnipeg Digest. It's a local newsletter slash media company. An audience of 110,000 people in Winnipeg.

[Alex Hormozi]

Sweet.

[Jaz]

So that's about 70,000 on socials. 40,000 newsletter list in the last 18 months.

[Leila Hormozi]

That's awesome.

[Jaz]

We right now do. Yeah, thank you. We do about $10,000 in revenue right now. 6,000 profit through local advertising.

[Leila Hormozi]

Is that per month or per year?

[Jaz]

That's per month, yeah.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

And then.

[Jaz]

And then we currently have six annual advertisers, mostly paying about 1,000 per month, with two paying 2,000 per month. And then the rest of the revenue comes from single one off ads. My question is a little two part. So the first one is, how do I scale to a million without running out of local advertisers in the future, which I'm afraid of, or running into a supply constraint because we only send out 12 newsletters per month. So basically we have 12 primary. No, we send out 12 newsletters per month. So it's three per week.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay.

[Jaz]

Every Monday, Wednesday.

[Alex Hormozi]

And these are digital, right? Yeah, these are.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

These are digital emails.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, got it. Okay.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

And are you. So that's my point then. Yeah. So I would not be worried about running out of advertisers. There's 110,000 people in the city. There's. You can for sure get enough advertisers. That's not an issue. So put that one away. You running out of ad space is more, more possible.

So you have how many people here?

[Jaz]

Yeah, so we have 40, 000 on the list.

[Alex Hormozi]

The city is a million people.

[Jaz]

Yeah, so the city is a million people. The 110000 is what our audience size is. So it's 70, 000 on social media.

[Alex Hormozi]

You have so much room. You have so much room. So much room.

[Jaz]

Yeah, so that's kind of. So okay, so if I have room then kind of growing perspective, then I'm afraid that we'll run out of ad speed. So we'll run into a supply.

[Alex Hormozi]

No, you're not going to run out of ad space. You're going to have to make sure that you're pricing your CPMs appropriately. So said differently, if you have, you know, 250,000 of the people out of the million in the city on your newsletter, you could charge a trip. I mean every ad would be. You'd be, you know, $100,000. Like it would be a lot. You know what I'm saying? So. Yeah, so the space itself obviously have limited you. Don't you want to send your entire newsletter? It's just all ads, right?

[Josh]

That's not going to work.

[Alex Hormozi]

The way that media scales is via impressions and quality of impressions. And so you can charge more for the same space. That's, that's what you have to do. So it's like how do I scale this business? You get more eyeballs, but it's like.

[Jaz]

There'S not that or like I don't know if there's enough businesses that can pay me to like $100,000 per ad.

[Alex Hormozi]

You know, in for sure businesses. Well, again you're. You're selling 12 ads a month. You're $1,000 a month in. In advertising is not like many businesses can. Can do that. Many businesses can do five or 10.

Like my dad used to run. My dad local business owner, right? He used to spend 10, $15,000 to be in like Baltimore Digest or something. Or Baltimore is whatever. Like one. Yeah, one magazine per month went out. He spend $15,000 to be in that thing for like a half page, right?

[Jaz]

So, okay, yeah, so that kind of, that kind of semi. I guess that kind of answers my second question too, which was like it was either, okay, should I expand to new cities, stay in the current one, but niche down. So let's say go start another one, but say Winnipeg Real Estate Digest or something. Right. Or just keep.

[Alex Hormozi]

I want you to keep scaling this way. I do not think it's worth you splitting. Splitting your attention right now. I think you have way more, way more impressions to capture. The other piece that you want to consider here though is like you're sending a newsletter. Is like, are there other places you can. Like you have 70k on social. It's like we can charge for posts, we can charge for stories, we can charge for YouTube video integrations, we can charge for news. Like, I would rather you do all that stuff first before even considering for now.

[Jaz]

Okay, but what you would say the next step would be to niche down after like a certain.

[Alex Hormozi]

No, I don't even want you to.

[Josh]

Think about niching down.

[Alex Hormozi]

I want you to just do more. You need way more.

[Devin]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay. And then.

[Jaz]

Okay. And from a acquisition standpoint of subscribers, we are currently running Facebook ads and acquiring subscribers as like a dollar forty. Okay, so that's kind of. So my question then is, do we continue to scale Facebook ads? Because right now it takes about like three months to break even on a subscriber.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, so you already know. Yeah, I mean, that's fine.

[Jaz]

Yeah.

[Josh]

Okay.

[Jaz]

And so keep stealing Facebook ads in total.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. You can also sell people longer, you know, periods of time on the front end.

And is there.

[Jaz]

And is there like a front end offer? Like, because I know a lot of people in the space try and try and achieve like negative costs for acquiring a subscriber.

[Brian]

Right.

[Jaz]

So having some sort of a front end offer, would you say I should still continue to just push B2B advertising.

[Alex Hormozi]

Or you can push B2B advertising as you do your Facebook ads. So people opt into the newsletter, just have something called an slo, which is self liquidating offer on the thank you page.

Okay. Do you have anything on the thank you page that you sell them?

[Jaz]

No, nothing right now.

[Alex Hormozi]

I made about to change your life. I'm about to change your life. You ready?

[Joshua]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

I want you to offer a. A 10 pack of guide to Winnipeg's best restaurants. Guide to Winnipeg's best new spots. Guide to Winnipeg's best ski dessert. Best dessert. Like literally just put a. Put 10 different kind of like magazines do it once. Make that 10 pack like 37, put it on the thank you page. If you can get one out of 37 people to buy it, your cost of acquisition to zero and then you can scale the thing to the movie. So those would be physical, like physical things.

[Jaz]

Digital guy.

[Leila Hormozi]

You can make it digital.

[Alex Hormozi]

It's fine.

[Devin]

Okay.

[Jaz]

I was literally about to offer that for free in our welcome sequence.

[Josh]

So there we go.

[Jaz]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

And yeah.

[Jaz]

Okay. No, I think that kind of answers.

[Alex Hormozi]

I feel like that was pretty good.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

Yeah, we know.

[Joshua]

That was three use of Blade.

[Alex Hormozi]

No, like, I mean I've been, I've.

[Jaz]

Been like going back and forth with like, oh, should I start a Christmas holiday lights company on top of this?

[Alex Hormozi]

No, dude, no.

[Leila Hormozi]

What? That sounds awful.

[Alex Hormozi]

No, it sounds horrible. Do more of this. All you have to do is add a self liquidating off in the front end. You'll be able to grow the hell out of your media. You can charge more, you can get more advertisers in. Done and done. You can also, to your concern, you could also parse your list, right? So let's say you triple your list size. If for some reason you can't find advertisers, you can pay more, which I wholeheartedly reject. But just to show you that you can still be creative here, you can say, I'm going to send 12 emails to these people. 12 emails to these people. And 12 emails to these people. List A, B and C. Because you made the list three times fake and you can charge that many more times.

[Jaz]

Uhhuh.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, got it.

[Jaz]

That answers, I think all my questions.

[Alex Hormozi]

Thank you. All right, Rock and roll, man. Appreciate it.

[Jaz]

Thank you so much. Bye bye.

[Alex Hormozi]

You should take this one.

[Leila Hormozi]

What are the questions that we're prompting people with?

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, I feel like I smashed that one.

[Leila Hormozi]

You're. I'm not going to answer a marketing question. So tell us what the next caller is.

[Alex Hormozi]

Hopefully it's a people question. They'd be like people. They're alive.

[Leila Hormozi]

Anything but marketing.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, anything.

[Leila Hormozi]

Anything but marketing. I can help answer. I'm not gonna.

[Joshua]

What's up guys?

[Alex Hormozi]

What's up?

[Leila Hormozi]

Hey.

[Alex Hormozi]

Tell me about the biz.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

Yeah, so I run a company where I essentially help remote high ticket sales coaches with their fulfillment by providing job opportunities and then coaching for their students slash clients on best application processes, interview support and prep and things like that.

[Leila Hormozi]

So you. Which part of the delivery do you.

Can you hear me? What part of the delivery do you do?

[Unidentified Female Coach]

So I like post the job opportunities inside of their community and then I do group coaching calls once a week with some of the clients and then dm support, answering people's questions, reviewing their application videos and things like that.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay. What do they do? They're responsible for sales.

[Joshua]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

So they're sales coaches. So they're teaching people the sales side of things. And most of them, before I come into the business, are doing part of the, you know, helping them land jobs, but often are struggling with having enough job opportunities. And the coaching part of actually teaching people what to do properly to get hired.

[Leila Hormozi]

Got it. So they're really good at getting the clients. They're not good at getting the clients the opportunity. So you bring them the opportunities you're responsible for the second funnel.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

Exactly.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, great.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

So I guess, like, the bottleneck that I have is we currently have 45 communities that we work with.

[Leila Hormozi]

Wow.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

We work on our retainer model. We don't charge the businesses anything for the recruitment services. Not really recruitment services. It's just like posting their opportunities in the community. And so the sales coaches pay us a retainer anywhere from two to $4,000 a month. And I run the entire business and fulfillment. And so I guess my bottleneck is that the business is not a business, it's me.

[Alex Hormozi]

For placements. When you get them opportunities.

No.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

So it's just like a flat retainer.

[Alex Hormozi]

Model, providing the job opportunity you're providing. Let me say differently. These guys get jobs at businesses that need salespeople, correct?

[Unidentified Female Coach]

Yes.

[Alex Hormozi]

So who. Those businesses. You just give them people for free.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

Exactly. So I don't charge the business anything so that. That doesn't become a bottleneck so that I can have as many job opportunities as exist in the world.

[Leila Hormozi]

So it'd be like I would come to you and say, I need remote salespeople, and you would be like, I'll give you some for free.

Yes.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

So let me know anytime you need sales reps.

[Leila Hormozi]

I mean, I wouldn't do it because I wouldn't believe that you were any good.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, there's that.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

Well, we have anywhere from 500 to 600 job opportunities that we post a month. So we've got a lot of people who do trust us.

[Leila Hormozi]

I. You get what I'm saying? Okay, so what's the problem?

[Unidentified Female Coach]

Well, just that I guess I'm bottlenecked by. I have no team and. And we have 45 clients. And so I'm not sure where to find the right talent, how to incentivize the right talent. But the fulfillment side, like coaching, finding the right opportunities, I guess I just don't know what direction to go in to scale beyond where we're at currently.

[Leila Hormozi]

So let me ask you, in the business right now, where do you spend most of your time? Is it on sales? Is it on fulfillment? Like which piece?

[Unidentified Female Coach]

Yeah, I don't really spend very much time at all on sales. It's. It's pretty much all on fulfillment. So I guess, like liaising with businesses who are looking to hire sales reps. Yeah. And answering questions and getting on group coaching calls with the students of my clients.

[Leila Hormozi]

How many group coaching calls a week are you getting on?

[Unidentified Female Coach]

Currently around 20 per week. So a little less than half of the total clients we work with have that. That as part of the services I provide.

[Leila Hormozi]

Gosh. Okay. And then of that time, the rest of the time you're spending dming people essentially, like answering questions in the group.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

Exactly.

[Jaz]

Yeah.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay. And then what would you do if you weren't. If your time wasn't being taken by doing either one of those things?

[Unidentified Female Coach]

I think it would just mostly be be acquisition, finding more clients and making bigger, better connections with, with businesses and people that hiring sales reps consistently.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah, I think the first thing that you should try and get off your plate is the questions. Because if you can bring somebody on and you can train them on answering the questions in the group, that's like a. It's almost like they're onboarding to then take over calls from you. My question is, when you're on the calls, what is the. Like, if you were to tell me the top three things that you're teaching them on the calls, what would those three things be?

[Unidentified Female Coach]

I mean, I think the, like, the application videos would be the number one thing. But the, the majority of those calls and answering people's questions is all like, personalized. So it's based on their situation and their past experience. Because I work with some people that have a ton of sales experience and some people that, you know, this is going to be their first ever you know, go at sales. And so it's mostly personalized, like how can we frame the experience they do have or the lack of experience in the right way to be able to help them land a better job than they have currently or their first job.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yes, it's essentially a lot of career coaching to a degree, just in like a less traditional sense.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

Yeah.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, so you're looking for somebody that can essentially be a career coach for the sales remote sales opportunity peeps.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

Yeah, pretty much. And I think that struggle is, I don't know who has the understanding of the industry and I guess enough expertise and obviously I can coach that. But to have authority in Those conversations that isn't a great sales rep who could make a lot more money selling than helping people get jobs.

[Leila Hormozi]

So there's two different models that you can think of when you think of a coaching business like this. And I think this goes for like any coaching business in existence. We've talked to so many and I've helped structure multiple teams like this. Like, there's really two models that work and there's trade offs in each one. Meaning like you kind of just want to pick your problems. And so I'm going to describe each one and you can tell me which one you think you would rather have the shit that comes with it. The first one is that you hire people that are going to be full time. The downside of this is it's going to be harder to find those people because they're competing with these other opportunities. So just like what you said, it's like they could go make more money somewhere else. Which means the type of people you're going to find are people who directly want to learn from you and they see this as a learning opportunity, not an earning opportunity. And they one day want to open up a business similar to yours. So there's two downsides here, which is one, they're going to be competing in terms of cost. And so they're looking at these other opportunities. They're not going to come in for super cheap, even though they're trying to learn, because the anchor is just very high is what they can earn elsewhere. The second side to it is that there's going to be a finite timeline on this because they're coming in to learn. And so once they feel like they've learned enough that they can go off on their own or go do something somewhere else and learn more, they're going to do that. However, the benefit is that it's less management for you because if you bring these people in, you probably only need a couple of them literally to take care of all the clients that you have. And you get a ton of discretionary effort from them because they're full time employees with you and they're trying to learn. So they want to go above and beyond because they're trying to acquire the skills.

That makes sense. That's the first model. The second model absolutely is easy to find and also hard to manage, which is find people that essentially are doing what you just described. They're already those coaches making a lot of money, but they want to make more money and they want to have influence. They like the status, they like the teaching and so as a side opportunity, they can do this for 10 or 15 hours a week, maybe even less. And so then what you would do is you would get more of those people say you need based on, you know, 20 calls a week plus whatever. Say it's 40 hours, maybe you need four or five of them to cover you. You pay them a lot less. You get them fractionally in part time. The downside to it is that it's going to be more management from you because you have to build out a schedule. You're going to have to make sure that they're all, you know, clock in clock, whatever, all the compliance. And so I would say that if you have a hard time finding the people, then maybe go with the model where you have the part time coaches coming in. I would say the other upside to doing the part time is that if you lose one, it's not a big deal. You can replace them fairly easily. There's a lot of key man risk in the first model. And so if you don't feel like you're like going to really be great at retaining them, I typically tell people to steer away from that model. Let me.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, I'm going to piggyback on that. So the nice thing with the partial model that Layla just outlined is that one, you're placing all these salespeople right now, and you already have a history of placing a lot of salespeople already. Right. And they already went through your training and whatnot. And so I would say, take your most successful alumni and say, hey, want to make an extra five grand a month and give back to the community that you came from. Many of those guys would probably say, sure, I'd happily do it because, you know, five grand. Because a lot of, you know, salespeople, they get tired of selling all the time and so this gives them a little bit of a break and feel like they're giving back. Yeah, exactly. So I actually really like that model. And given the fact that you recruit all these salespeople, I don't think it'd be that hard. Second, because they would kill me and eat me up inside to not at least say it. You can double your revenue really easily. Can I tell you how?

[Unidentified Female Coach]

I would love to know.

[Alex Hormozi]

So I hear where you're coming from with the, hey, I want to have as many opportunities possible so I can find as many places as possible. So making it free is a way to do that. I hear you there. But you probably know of all the candidates you have that there's probably 10% of them. That are killers and are going to do well. Right?

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right. Have a tier that's 2,500 bucks or $5,000 per head that you say, hey, all these people are free. I personally screen these ones and give them a blue check mark from me. And these ones are 2,500 bucks or 5,000 a pop. So if you get 600 placements a month is what you're doing. If 60 of them are paid at 2,500 or 5K, that adds 150 to $300,000 a month to the business.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

That makes a lot of sense.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay.

[Leila Hormozi]

You're like, I gotta get that one out.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

I definitely need to implement and call.

[Leila Hormozi]

That a money model.

[Alex Hormozi]

Call that a money model right there. Right there.

[Leila Hormozi]

You should write a book.

[Alex Hormozi]

I should write a book about that. Does that, that help? So that way this solved your. Your deliver model and that solved your money model. Rock and roll.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

That's awesome. Thank you, guys.

[Jaz]

Thank you.

[Alex Hormozi]

That was a fun one. That was good. That was nice.

[Leila Hormozi]

A little spice.

[Alex Hormozi]

I had a little spice of life. That was fantastic.

All right, let's do next following. Let's rock and roll. Who else we got?

[Brian]

Hey, I'm. I'm Brian.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

Hey, Alex.

[Jaz]

Hey.

[Joshua]

Leila.

[Leila Hormozi]

Hey.

[Brian]

Going on. So I run a online coding boot camp for adults called Tarsity I.O. and I'm @ a pretty frustrating position where we've like basically plateaued at around 30 to 40 people per year. We have pretty good reviews. People seem to like us. I do pretty much only organic through a podcast and around 30,000 followers on LinkedIn. And I'm just wondering, how do I hit this magical 100 people per year.

[Alex Hormozi]

Target? What do you.

[Brian]

Charge?

[Alex Hormozi]

$9200. So now you're under is what you charge and you've got 30 to 40 people a year who are buying.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yep.

How long have you been doing.

[Brian]

It?

This business has been around for about five years and I've been running it for the last.

[Leila Hormozi]

Two. Did you buy the.

[Brian]

Company?

Yes, I did. My seller financed.

[Devin]

Purchase.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah. Okay, understood. And last year, was it also at the same.

[Brian]

Number?

Basically.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

Yeah. Like.

[Brian]

The. It had a pandemic, you know, plateau. It went up to like 50 or 60 people during the pandemic when it was the. The software developer market was really hot and now it's kind of gone to like 30 or 40. We're, we're priced under most other coding boot camps and we're much more personalized, but it just feels like. Yeah, it just feels a little stuck at this point where Are your.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

Leads coming from getting experience.

[Brian]

Bad. Almost all through a podcast I do that has about 10,000 listeners per month. But it just feels like it. It's frustrating. Like, that's a lot of people.

[Alex Hormozi]

But it's like no one's actually 10,000 uniques. So there's 10,000.

[Brian]

Downloads. It's 10,000.

[Alex Hormozi]

Downloads. Right, and how many pods do you make a.

[Brian]

Month? Yeah.

Two per.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

Week. Yeah, eight.

[Brian]

Per. Eight per.

[Alex Hormozi]

Month. Yeah. So call it, you know, it's 1200 per episode downloads, and not all downloads are.

[Brian]

Listens.

That's right.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. Right. So you might only have a thousand people. Right? You might only have a thousand or five hundred or six hundred people. And yes, we read the chat, by the way, and there's only 500, 600 people who are actually listening. So the fact that you're getting 30 or 40, that actually sounds like you're getting. Yeah, you're getting 5% of your podcast to.

[Leila Hormozi]

Convert.

Okay, so, guys, has your podcast grown in the last.

[Brian]

Year?

Yeah, it did, but I think that was, like, from doubling the amount of episodes. So I think it was like.

[Alex Hormozi]

I was looking at it like, oh.

[Brian]

Great, I'm getting more.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

People. Yeah, I think that was the.

[Brian]

Issue. And so I've been trying to, like, explore LinkedIn. I'm like, okay, I have like 30,000 people on LinkedIn and then trying to write post daily with, like.

Not as many as I think most of the people come from the podcast. And we ask people, hey, how'd you find out about it? It's almost always in the podcast. There's. There's like, I'd say, let's say 25% come. Come through LinkedIn, and that's about.

[Alex Hormozi]

It. All right, so you have a marketing issue. No one knows you exist, and.

It'S great that you have a podcast. Podcasts are very, very difficult to grow because there's very low suggestibility. So you would want to take. So I see podcasts and like, email list, for example, is very middle and bottom of.

[Leila Hormozi]

Funnel.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. And so you need more top of funnel awareness type stuff. So LinkedIn works. That's fine. But I would also be looking at. I mean, I know it's just you, but I think you just need to make way, like, instead of making more podcasts, I think you need to make more LinkedIn content for sure. Because that's where a lot of people like. I think that's a good place. I think X is also a pretty good platform for people who are trying to, like, buy, you know, coding stuff. Also Repurposing that content super easy. Between LinkedIn and X is almost all words. But beyond that, if you take the words and then you make videos of those words, shorts or longs, combine the best three or four or five LinkedIn posts you make and then make those into longs for YouTube. If you combine all those things together, you'll get significantly more traction. Beyond that, I'm assuming, what's the. What's. How are people actually buying from you?

So I see a LinkedIn post or you're good. I see a LinkedIn poster podcast. What do I. What's my what. What gets me to take.

[Brian]

Action?

Oh, okay. Like at the end of each episode, I'm like, hey, you know, go to plugdatt IO and fill out this.

[Alex Hormozi]

Application. Yeah, okay. So thing one is we need a better lead magnet. So it'd be like, I would say, you have your course thing. I would say give the first module away for free.

And say, hey, like, learn how to do this in under 60 minutes. The first, like, the one thing that's really valuable, like, oh, my God, this is amazing. And then all you do is all those people get that thing for free. You'll get way more leads. You can call them up and then sell them.

Because a direct ask of, like, go apply is.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

Tough. Yeah, for.

[Alex Hormozi]

Sure. Right? Super bottom of funnel. Like, you have a very bottom of funnel business. And so that's why it's not growing, because everything is about just.

[Leila Hormozi]

Conversion. Yeah. I was also thinking, like, we've had a lot of companies that we've worked with that are in this space, and the ones that I've seen that have had the highest revenue, they actually, they make YouTube videos. So the reason I think it works well for that is because, like, it's a very. Like a lot of people that get into coding, like, they like watching a lot of videos on coding. So it's like listening to it is very different than, like, watching it. I almost feel like you could take your podcast and literally just turn them into YouTube videos. I think that you'd get a lot more buy in, there'd be a lot more trust and. And then you probably honestly get way more lead flow that way. Cause it's a platform that's easy to grow on compared to podcasts. So it's like, I wouldn't stop doing the.

[Brian]

Podcast. Yeah.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah. In conjunction with what Alex said, I think the thing I'm thinking is just like, you're putting a lot of effort into a channel that's not going to give you a Lot of.

[Alex Hormozi]

Return.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah. Like my podcast and Alex's podcast, like, that is like the. It's the one thing that probably comes from, like, I would say, like, if we want to do it the right way, it would take a ton of effort and be difficult to distribute across other channels. Optimized for those channels. Whereas YouTube, if you made YouTube videos, you could take that and put that across Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat, LinkedIn. Like, it's. It's such a better source piece of content that when you're ready to scale again, you could scale that across so many different platforms versus the podcast. Always just.

[Alex Hormozi]

Audio. Video turns into audio much easier than audio turns into.

[Leila Hormozi]

Video.

[Brian]

Correct?

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. So.

[Brian]

Yeah. And that's probably keeping it going.

[Leila Hormozi]

Good.

[Alex Hormozi]

Totally. Tldr. Two things you need to do. Thing one, get a better lead magnetic. Thing two, you need to advertise way more, which means you put out higher volume of content across all platforms, especially ones that have high deliver, high.

[Brian]

Discoverability.

Yeah, no tracks. And so you probably wouldn't do ads at this point.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right? No, I think you just. I think you can post goal organic. No, I think you can. You have so much meat on the bone with organic right now. I would do. I would just double. I wouldn't double down. I. I'd 5x.

[Brian]

Down.

Okay, I appreciate.

[Alex Hormozi]

That. All right, man. Rock and roll. Appreciate.

[Brian]

You.

[Alex Hormozi]

Cool. Hey, thank you. All right, later, brother Simon. Appreciate the shot for the book. I'm glad you like it. He's referencing money models. It's also free on my podcast for those of you who are broke. It's also a free course on my site for those of you who are also broke. It's also there. You don't even have to opt in. You can just watch it. But we're here now, so let's do this. Next caller is Renwitha Nick Collar. Okay, let's body slam.

What's going on, guys? Can you hear me? Yes.

[Joshua]

Sir.

Going.

[Josh]

On. My name is Josh. I own a brick and mortar pest control company that focuses mainly on recurring service plans, residential.

[Alex Hormozi]

Clients. Yep. So currently my constraint is optimize my offer. I feel like there's room for improvement. Optimize your.

[Jaz]

What?

[Alex Hormozi]

So.

My constraint is optimizing my offer.

[Leila Hormozi]

Offer.

[Josh]

Okay. For.

[Alex Hormozi]

Improvement.

[Josh]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yep. So I've been bundling basically all the services into like a mother of all bundles type of deal. Yeah.

I basically can't upsell with that.

[Josh]

Since I'm bundling everything and margins get.

[Alex Hormozi]

Tighter. But my close rate does.

[Josh]

Increase.

But when we don't Bundle, the opposite happens. Close rate margins do increase along with upsell potential. So my question is, which of.

[Alex Hormozi]

The two would you deploy to scale.

[Josh]

The quickest currently on a million dollars? Start the business a year ago.

[Alex Hormozi]

Looking to get to 5 next.

[Leila Hormozi]

Year. My question is, you said close rate decreases when you take away the bundles.

[Jaz]

Right?

[Josh]

Yeah. So basically with the. That bundle, I basically just cancel and yeah, pretty.

[Leila Hormozi]

Much. I'm curious, do the customers. Do you sell less of a specific type of customer? Like in terms of like income range or type of house or something like.

[Josh]

That?

It's all upscale, like. Yeah, basically upper, upper, middle to higher clients. Is that what you're asking.

[Leila Hormozi]

Me? Yeah, I was just trying to understand if like there's a specific type of customer that's more attractive that you're not getting when you switch, that you lose with the switch, but that the ones that you're getting are going to have a. A greater ltv. So it's like kind of worth the trade off. But I was trying to understand if there's a difference of.

[Alex Hormozi]

Customer. Yeah, it's so the.

[Jaz]

Customer.

[Josh]

Basically.

Yeah, it's.

[Alex Hormozi]

Like. So the customers are pretty much the.

[Josh]

Same. It's really not going to.

[Leila Hormozi]

Change.

[Josh]

Okay. So I pretty much, I'm focusing on like hired customers that's willing.

[Leila Hormozi]

To.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. Let me push back real quick. So you said your constraint is your offer. I would say. How do you know.

[Joshua]

That?

Well, so, well, Coke, because of.

[Alex Hormozi]

The. I felt really, honestly, it's like.

[Josh]

That close rate, it drops when we, when we don't bundle and when we do bundle, it goes.

[Alex Hormozi]

Up. I mean the business is rocking and rolling. It's doing great. Honestly, I don't. I'm just wondering if that is the constraint. It doesn't sound like the constraint.

Like what's like why is the.

[Leila Hormozi]

Business not double in.

[Alex Hormozi]

Revenue? Like. Yeah. What's stopping you right now? I mean, you said your close rate's fine when you have the bundle. So sell the bundle. Okay. Unless there's some other major problem.

So the only thing is that the upsell potential drops. So the LTV does drop. Well, then why don't you raise the price on the.

[Josh]

Bundle? Yeah, I guess could just raise the price in the.

[Alex Hormozi]

Bundle. I mean, it's like love this for.

[Josh]

Us. I will raise the price on the.

[Alex Hormozi]

Bundle.

This is great. I'm glad we, I'm glad we had this chat.

Okay. We have this thing that everyone wants to buy, but it has lower margins. It's like. Well, but you. If you're especially going to upscale, they don't know the difference. So, you know, tack on 20 and then probably like double your margins. They won't even.

[Josh]

Know. Yeah, you're.

[Leila Hormozi]

Right. The.

[Jaz]

Limit.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yes. This was.

[Josh]

Fun. Appreciate it. I'm gonna be seeing you guys in.

[Leila Hormozi]

December. All.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right. Fun don't Rock and roll, man. We'll see you out.

[Leila Hormozi]

Here. Tell us how much more money you make in the.

[Alex Hormozi]

Meantime. Yeah, that'd be lovely.

You.

[Leila Hormozi]

Bet. Have a good.

[Alex Hormozi]

One. We have a next.

[Leila Hormozi]

Caller. Okay, let's do next.

[Alex Hormozi]

Caller. Who's on? Who's. Who's on.

[Josh]

First?

It is this.

[Brian]

Paul. So I run a marketing agency for martial arts schools. Oh, generation. And yeah, I offer lead generation and appointment setting services. I currently am at 420k in revenue, 100k in profit. And yeah, I guess the problem right now is that I kind of started this just doing freelancing. Kind of stumbled into martial arts on a whim. After having success with the client. I figured out like a repeatable system to get them results, get people showing up, get people coming up to the first class. And that's kind of where I'm at today.

I guess my problem right now is, you know, I'm selling three month contract and turns pretty high still. And I kind of just didn't really fix the churn issue. I kind of just started selling a lot and getting clients. And I have a good relationship with all of them, but I've been kind of stuck at this range. It's 35,000 per month for a while now. And clients just leave for a lot of reasons out of my control. Either A, I do a great job and they can't handle long coming in, or B, they don't want the patience to kind of keep going with it. And I think, do you want.

[Alex Hormozi]

To take this one.

[Brian]

Off? I don't. I don't run a muscle at school myself, so sometimes I have issues with skills and I can't really run and Charles, that. So I kind of just grew that agency on a.

[Alex Hormozi]

Whim. What do you want to have happen before I answer the question? What do you want to say? What's your.

[Leila Hormozi]

Goal? Yeah, that's the question I like to start.

[Alex Hormozi]

With.

[Brian]

Yeah. I think right now I'm trying to figure out if I should keep pushing on this or if I should pivot. And then like, I didn't really set out to start an agency. What do you want to have.

[Alex Hormozi]

Happen? What's the goal? It depends whether you should push your.

[Leila Hormozi]

Pivot. You try and make a certain amount of money, you try to sell A business. Do you want a lifestyle business? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, what do you want to end.

[Brian]

Up? I think right now, I think I want to learn how to make a lot of money and exit.

[Leila Hormozi]

And.

We can tell you.

[Alex Hormozi]

That. Yeah, that you will not.

[Brian]

Exit.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay. So the question is, can you learn something from this business.

And make money at the same time, or is there a better.

[Brian]

Opportunity? Yeah, I thought about potentially selling my book of business and then opening up and pivoting to some sort of brick and mortar kids education business. I mean, I've. I've kind of fleshed out the scripts on how to get parents and getting them invested into a martial arts program and the whole nurture sequence behind it. So I thought about investing the money because I've saved about a hundred thousand dollars in the business and I was thinking of kind of leveraging that into maybe investing in an actual brick and mortar and learning how to scale that. But I guess I'm just trying to figure out, do I, you know, in a good spot, should I push the agency, grow.

[Alex Hormozi]

It? You know, curious what Layla's going to say. And we'll probably have two different pieces. Like, we'll probably come at this from two different angles. So you'll get a double trouble on this.

[Leila Hormozi]

One.

[Alex Hormozi]

Sure. But I'll say this. Congratulations on learning how to generate leads in a market and work them and get them in. You've. You've learned acquisition super valuable, and you've learned it for a specific.

[Josh]

Avatar.

[Unidentified Female Coach]

Right.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay. That the next step, this business, like I can tell you where this is going to go. You would have to. You'd have to basically change this entire business in order to make it a bigger, sellable business, which is essentially the same as starting.

[Josh]

Over.

[Alex Hormozi]

If. And that's all based on your goal. Because the reason that you have the churn you have is because Marshall Studios in general tend to have significant, you know, they have high churn. They're typically not very good business owners. Not very good, but just they're small. Right. They're very volatile. And so that volatility is reflected in your business and, and volatility in their business. And your business therefore creates a business that is not valuable. Right. And so that's going to be based on them. The only way that you can get those types of customers who are volatile inherently to be sticky is to look at the things that those people already buy that they don't turn out of. So what are the things that they buy that they don't turn out of? If you were to stick with this, and I'm just using this as a mental construct and then I'll get into more specific examples of what I think you should do next. But big picture, you could. Their, their payment processor, they don't turn out of. Right. The CRM, they don't turn out of.

Their insurance. You know, I mean, like, like there's, there's things that they don't turn out. Marketing stuff they will turn out of left and right and center. Right. So I think that you have this whole kids education thing. If it were me, I would prefer you go and find an industry. If you want to do brick and mortar, which is fine. If you want to go brick and mortar, I would find an industry that already has a product or service that people don't turn out of, then I would apply your skill of learning acquisition to that business and then you'll be able to like, you can go and start acquiring businesses and then filling them up because you know how to acquire and those businesses will already have the stick in place and so you'll have the full.

[Leila Hormozi]

Stack.

What was your experience prior to this.

[Brian]

Business?

Well, I worked for a marketing company and I learned lead generation there and then I kind of just.

The company ended up getting sold. So I ended up, you know, trying to freelancing and I learned. Yeah, I took, I got my own client and then after I did that for about two years and here I am with a bunch of clients and I don't really know what the next step.

[Alex Hormozi]

Is.

[Leila Hormozi]

So. Okay, that's great to know that you came back.

[Alex Hormozi]

Background. Yeah.

[Brian]

Yeah. So I, I thought about getting into the kids education space because you know, I did martial arts because I came from a sports background teaching kids like different sports, specifically Frisbee, which was cool. And I guess I thought about, you know, buying some sort of like tutoring business or kids education and taking my marketing skills there and growing that some. But just because if my goal is to learn how to sell and sell a company is, I'm not sure if the agency space is there too. That's where my head that just.

[Alex Hormozi]

Find something that has high revenue retention, high.

[Leila Hormozi]

Stick. I was going to say you want to find something easy to market. Like I think it's really impressive that you've done what you've done for martial arts studios because we've worked with thousands and it's tough. So I mean I can say that objectively.

It's like you have a, you know, like a level eight skill that you're using on like a Level three opportunity. And the opportunities that you're kind of presenting, they're not really that much better. It's like maybe a level.

[Alex Hormozi]

Four. They're just.

[Leila Hormozi]

Different. I'm like, can you get a Level 8 opportunity to match your Level 8.

[Brian]

Skill? What is that for you.

[Alex Hormozi]

Guys? It's something that is revenue retention. I'm just telling you right now. It's something with revenue retention. Yeah. If you just solve for that. Because once you have revenue retention, if you don't want to acquire customers, you just grow a business. Every year just gets bigger. That's. I mean, the hardest thing is revenue.

[Leila Hormozi]

Retention. I just want to, like, open up your mind. You're looking at opportunities that are linear. I want you to look at opportunities that are exponentially different than what you're doing right now. And I think the reason you're thinking linearly is because, you know, without noticing, we have these beliefs, right. That we keep ourselves in these boxes. Thinking like, this is what I'm good at. The fact that you're very good at marketing, you need to find a great product that retains customers easily to market what that is. Maybe it does scare you or makes you nervous. You're like, I don't nothing about that. That's okay. You can figure it out. And the thing that I tell people a lot is it is just as hard to build a small business as it is to build a big business. Both of them are going to be painful. You're going to suffer. There's going to be late nights. It's also just as hard to build a. I would say like a more advanced business as it is a small business. I can tell you that from personal experience, like building a gym up to what it needs to be is as hard emotionally as building a large company like acquisition.com and they are hard in different ways. And they're also easy in different ways. So you're going to have 50% shit and 50% good no matter what opportunity you pursue. I would love to see you pursue an opportunity that is at least worth the 50% shit you're going to go through. That's something me and Alex talk about a lot, which is like, pick an opportunity that's worth the. The pain, because it's going to be pain no matter what this goes for everybody on the call. It's going to be hard no matter what. So pick one. Even if you're like, I don't believe that I could do it, you will figure out a way. And everybody does. Even when we started acquisition.com, you know, we didn't know anything about investing or buying companies or doing any of those things. And we learned along the way. It's just that you have to have the belief in yourself to just start. Like you're not going to feel ready for any opportunity that's exponentially different than what you're doing right now. You get ready by.

[Brian]

Starting. Got it. Just got to find a level 8.

[Leila Hormozi]

Opportunity. Literally I would go on, I would literally go on ChatGPT and I'd be like, tell me what an opportunity is. That's great. Revenue retention. Here's all the industries I've worked in. Here's all the skills. Where is something where I can get insane revenue retention that is five times more likely to sell and be worth something and make me, you know, maybe it's $50 million compared to these businesses I'm in right now? Just like, look at the list and then think like, okay, well like where do I have a 30 to 50% shot of success?

I mean, like, I don't know how to this. Like, I have never felt ready before. I tried something. I'm always like, I have no.

[Alex Hormozi]

Idea if this is going to.

[Leila Hormozi]

Work. I could totally fail. This could totally be done. And like that's going to happen no matter what. It's just like you're picking things that are small. And here's the thing that's even worse. You said you want to sell a business. Well then that means you have to stay in the game, which means you have to be.

[Josh]

Challenged.

[Leila Hormozi]

Right? If you pick something that you know you're going to win, this is like where high performers just die. And I can tell that you're a high performer is that you pick something that's too easy and then you get disengaged. And then you're like, I can already play this out, know where this is going to end up and I don't want to go there. And then you don't even want to see it out to sell the thing because you already know where it's going to go and it's not interesting.

Do you have anything you would.

[Brian]

Add? No, you're.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

[Brian]

Yeah. No. Last year I, I remember I was at the 10k rate and I, I watched a bunch of Alex's videos and he just said double ad spin and keep the course. And here I am a year later, double batch. Then kept the course. And I'm not, I guess just gotta find a, you know, high level.

[Leila Hormozi]

Activity. So also I would just say this, you're gonna learn more trying Something then you are going to learn thinking about it. We don't learn while we stay in our heads. We learn, we get out into the world and we do stuff. So like, think about a way, like, how could I test these opportunities? Can I be an affiliate of a company like this? Could I be an affiliate to an insurance company? Could I just come in and be a contractor to help build up this X company? Like you could literally just find one big client. Be like, I will do your in house marketing just so you can learn the.

[Alex Hormozi]

Business. Yep.

[Brian]

Dang. I would love to do.

[Alex Hormozi]

That. And use the cash that you have as you're saving so that you can be aggressive with your learning.

As in like that's your mistake so you don't have to worry about.

[Brian]

Living. Yeah, I, I've been, I've been doing the whole like Chipotle thing, frugal thing. I think that's my first time.

You guys, you guys. No, I appreciate.

[Alex Hormozi]

It. Appreciate you.

[Leila Hormozi]

Ma'.

[Brian]

Am. Awesome. No, I'll do the.

[Alex Hormozi]

Thing. I appreciate you.

[Leila Hormozi]

Dude. Yeah, we have another.

[Alex Hormozi]

Caller. Oh, a collar. We have a. A ringer is at the.

[Leila Hormozi]

Door. Someone has a ring. He you, bro. Who do we have on the.

[Devin]

Line?

[Leila Hormozi]

Devin. What up.

[Devin]

Devin? So I've got a small YouTube channel, like really small. And I, I just don't know where to go other than just make more.

[Alex Hormozi]

Content. What do you.

[Devin]

Say? I've watched y' all stuff. I don't have anything to sell.

[Alex Hormozi]

That. What do you make YouTube.

[Devin]

About? Should I have a.

[Alex Hormozi]

Product? What was that? What do you. What's the YouTube.

[Devin]

About?

It's hunting, thick and outdoors. I'm an.

[Josh]

Outdoorsman.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay. Oh, that's cool. And how many subscribers do you have? Reviews you get a.

[Devin]

Month.

So I've got 2, 000.

[Jaz]

Subscribers.

[Devin]

Okay. And last, in the last 28 days, I've gotten almost a quarter of a million views, mostly from short. I haven't posted many longs.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yet. Okay.

All.

[Leila Hormozi]

Right.

I post. What do you do to make money?

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. How do you.

[Devin]

Live?

I have a job. I work 40 hours a.

[Alex Hormozi]

Week. What do you like, what do you do.

[Devin]

Though? Put the damper on. I make lawnmower.

[Alex Hormozi]

Parts. Okay. I think you're early. So I do think that you should start making some longs. Because longs is what's going to depth in your kind of influence the audience. You want to. You want to demonstrate more expertise around hunting. And if you're like, I don't know how to do that. Just take three or four long, sorry, short concepts that Were good and just loop them together. Not, not literally loop them together. Just, you know, make a video that covers each of those, each of those concepts, you know, in tandem and work your way to a five or eight or ten minute video.

And I would start doing that. I just think you're. I think you're early.

[Devin]

Dude.

Okay, so just basically just be.

[Alex Hormozi]

More. Yeah. And do better too. You know what I mean? Like, I think you got to learn a little bit more about the.

[Leila Hormozi]

Content game, I would say. Like, what, right now are you spending all of your time making content for YouTube outside of.

[Joshua]

Work?

Just.

[Devin]

About.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Devin]

Yeah. Every minute I keep there, I'll.

[Alex Hormozi]

Do. Yeah, no, you're.

[Leila Hormozi]

Good. How long have you been doing.

[Devin]

It?

Well, I started the channel several years ago and kind of got very, very inconsistent. And then about two months ago, I decided to really get after.

[Leila Hormozi]

It. Okay, well, okay, I think then we can both tell you this, which is like YouTube is a game of consistency. Like, that's just, that's how the platform works. So I think the biggest thing that you can do right now is just be consistent because if you look at like how to go from just like, okay or mediocre to just like good, solid, it's consistency. And then if you want to get to like, great, it's like continued improvement while being consistent. So I guess the question is how many shorts and how many longs do you commit to making per.

[Devin]

Week?

So I was at one point I was doing one a day and I was. It was great. But I'm kind of back down to like three a week. Three and four a.

[Alex Hormozi]

Week. You mean for the shorts.

[Devin]

Right?

Yes.

[Alex Hormozi]

Sir. Yeah, I think. I mean, you do have to do more and you have to do it consistently. And I would just tell you that like right now you're not multi, like just for your own self. Do not consider yourself having done this for years. You've been doing it for eight weeks.

Yeah. So you're super early, man. Yeah, you're super.

[Leila Hormozi]

Early.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay. So I just like, I wouldn't even think about monetizing it right now. Like you just want to take 5am to 9am and 5pm to 9pm you're five to nine beginning a day and a day. And I put all of that into making sure no matter what I got out, I get out one short a day. And then on my weekends, I'm going to make sure that I get at least one long.

[Leila Hormozi]

Out.

Okay, what's your.

[Devin]

Goal? One more question. What's my.

[Alex Hormozi]

Goal?

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah. Do you want to.

[Brian]

Quit? Your.

[Leila Hormozi]

Job. Do you want to build a.

[Brian]

Company?

[Devin]

Yes. I believe if I can just replace my income from my job with this, then I could scale it up and I guess my number would be about ten grand a.

[Leila Hormozi]

Month. Okay. Would be, like, ideal.

What stops you from making one video a day? Like, you were, like, what, what.

[Devin]

Behavior?

Mostly just life gets in the way. Or I. You get talking and there's somebody, and then sun goes down and now I'm out of.

[Leila Hormozi]

Daylight.

So if you. If you want to ask yourself how to be consistent, the question is, how do you stop the things from occurring that make you inconsistent?

So it's like, do you have the right people surrounding you? Do you have yourself in the right environment? Like, those are the things that I think you want to be thinking about right now. Because I know, like, for myself or for Alex, when we were first starting out and like, making, just trying to get into business, I had to put myself in an environment where it made it easy to achieve my goals, not hard. Which also meant surrounding myself with people and a routine that made it.

[Jaz]

Easy.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay. Do you know how I define commitment? How? The elimination of alternatives.

You have to get rid of your other options. And I don't mean, like, you need to quit your job. I mean everything else that is not. You make. If this is what you want, and it's like, you could only know that, but if this is really what you want, then it means that you have to say no to everything else in order to truly say yes to this. Because every time you say yes to something else, it's saying no to this thing that you want. And almost always the things that we want to say yes to now are short term, long term. We say yes in the moment because it gives us a short term, short term, good thing, but it prevents us from the long term, long term, great.

[Devin]

Thing. Okay, so I was also thinking, should I post on Instagram, Facebook as.

[Alex Hormozi]

Well? I want you to be consistent with YouTube first, man.

All right, give me 12 weeks of consistency. You make one long and you make seven shorts. 12 weeks in a row. You do that and you're like, you know what? I got more. The thing is, is right now you have to do that volume so you can become more efficient. Like, you have to feel the pain of the inefficiency of being like, man, this is a lot of work. Because when you do that, all of a sudden you'll start getting faster, you start getting better, and your work output and capacity will go up.

And then you'll free up the bandwidth because you got more skills, you got more efficient that you can start looking at. You know what? I'm going to repurpose this on Instagram or repurpose this on TikTok or.

[Devin]

Whatever.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay. It's also like, just like really think about this in order to build a business to replace your income. Like, you want to build that confidence. And confidence is an output, not an input. The input to confidence is becoming incredibly consistent with something so you get the experience, experience which makes you competent and then it leads to confidence. And I think like, in general, if you can't stick with a commitment that you make to yourself, then you, you degrade the trust you have with yourself every day. And so like anything you do, it's not going to come out as good as it could be. It's always going to be harder, it's going to take longer if you don't repair that trust with yourself. So I think like right now, if you're just consistent with the posting, like, that is going to make you not just better at business and content, but just better person for yourself, a better, I would say, like, partner to yourself in doing.

[Devin]

This.

That's kind of funny because I was watching one of Alex's videos where he was talking about consistency and how it, how you get better by doing the thing over and over again. So I started doing that and I've already noticed that.

[Leila Hormozi]

Trend. I think right now it's good to steer a little bit. Like, I get obsessive over doing things consistently. Alex knows this. But I think you can steer a little bit in the obsessive direction right now. I think it'd be good for you. And then you can course correct that.

[Alex Hormozi]

Later.

And expect the fact, like, expect people who are normal and around you to not understand, expect them to think it's weird, expect it to not look cool. Like everyone goes through a cringe period. Like you're, it's going to be lonely because you're trying to do something that's very different. And I make that content where I say, like, in order to be exceptional, you have to become the exception. You're going to probably be surrounded by the majority of people in your life who don't want this, aren't interested in it, think it's dumb, think it's stupid, think it's you trying to be famous, you thinking more of yourself than you really are, all of that stuff. And you just have to just put that in on the shelf and get back to work.

Because, like, either they'll be right or you will. And you've got a long time to be.

[Devin]

Right. That's kind of what I.

[Leila Hormozi]

Was. All.

[Devin]

Right. Thank.

[Alex Hormozi]

You. Yeah. They'll be right for now and you'll be right for.

[Devin]

Good. Yes, sir. So just.

[Alex Hormozi]

Keep. Keep on. Keep on.

[Josh]

Baby. Keep.

[Devin]

On.

Thank you very much. You guys are.

[Alex Hormozi]

Awesome. You bet. Appreciate you, man. How do I go about hiring the right person? That is a very short question. That's a very long.

[Leila Hormozi]

Answer. Be the right.

[Alex Hormozi]

Person. Yeah, there you go. There's a short. There's your short.

[Brian]

Answer.

[Leila Hormozi]

Wow.

[Alex Hormozi]

Wow. Must be nice. I wrote an agency for churches. They have all cameras and equipment, but no editors. Basically a clear marker for. For taking. For backend media optimization. How Strike market to ministries. Honestly, I think they're pretty easy to market to. I think I would start with outreach first. Get some. I get my first 10, you know, testimonials so I can. And then ask them for referrals. And then once I have that, once your capacity gets taxed, you can ask them to start paying you because you can't keep doing it. And they're going to start getting hooked to the fact that they had good media. After they have good media, you'll convert some of them. Some of them you'll have to drop with the excess capacity. Then you can see. Start doing outreach using the Testimonials from the 10 people that you did it for free for. And in that process, you'll learn how to do the.

[Leila Hormozi]

Gig. I feel like in fitness content, it's not impossible to post daily, but I keep running of ideas to keep up with seven days a week. Here's my favorite way to make content. Look at all the content on fitness that you hate. And then ask yourself, why do I hate this so much? There's your piece of content. I do this all the time. People will send me, like, you should make this piece of content. Like, dude, it's disgusting. And then I'm like, why am I so disgusted by this piece of content? And I'm like, it's so cringe. Why? And then that is a piece of content in itself. So, like, look at what you see that why? You're like, why is this so bad? And then that becomes the content that you can make. And I think the best hack at.

[Alex Hormozi]

Hand. And I'll piggyback on what Lila said when she's saying that. She's not saying dunk on people. She's not saying make reaction videos where you shit on other people. You probably like anybody who's followed our stuff, like Leila and I, we do not like, that's just. We don't operate that.

[Leila Hormozi]

Way. I think there's.

[Alex Hormozi]

Less. I think there's enough hate in the world. I don't think I want to add to that. So I just like, you know, tall poppy, right. You can drag everyone else down or you can lift yourself up. We are very much on the, like, just make better shit. And if you keep making better stuff, you will be known. I don't think there's any point in shooting on others, but it is good for, for.

[Leila Hormozi]

Inspiration. Yeah. Thinking about.

[Alex Hormozi]

It. Yeah.

[Leila Hormozi]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Cool.

I have an event company and has only been established for two months, but our competitors have been here 15 years. How do I get clients to trust me since they're comparing us to our competitors?

You're going to have to. Okay, so I'll give you the classic small dog frame. All right? So if you were to enter the gym space, you would have to compete against gym launch. And as a reminder, when I entered the gym space, I was the small dog, not the 800 pound gorilla. The small ones, the small, the teeniest of dogs, the itty bit. Itty.

[Leila Hormozi]

Bitty. Everyone compared us to everybody else. It was like every call I got on it was like, well, what about this person? Yeah, every.

[Alex Hormozi]

Time. So you have to, you have comparison only works in the vague, not in the specific meaning. They're comparing your company to their company. You need to reframe the comparison as comparing you to employee number 86 at that events company. So it's like, listen, they've been here. Like, you want to, you want to lean into it. You want to be like, listen, they've been here longer. They've got, they've got way more, you know, track recording experience. I was like, but you're just going to be a number to them. And if there's a problem, you're going to go to a Cal rep number six. And you're like, and they're not really going to care. And so it's not, is my company better than their company? The question you have to ask yourself is whether I'm better and more motivated to help you have an amazing event and experience. And as a new business owner who will do everything to succeed, compared to their hourly or salaried employee who clocks in and clocks out and doesn't care, that's who you need to compare against. And if that's the bet, I'll win 10 times out of 10. That's the reframe when you're starting out. All right, could you please explain how to Decide between a monthly. Oh, monthly subscription and what was it, I missed it.

And a one time payment. Yeah. Okay, cool. It's actually just a math thing, so.

It'S gonna ladder up to something called EPCs, which is earnings per click. All right, and so you get your earnings per click by say you have two lines on an Excel sheet. So this is pure math. 100 clicks to offer one, 100 clicks to offer two. And so if offer one gets 100 clicks and let's say you convert 2% of those clicks. All right, I'll just do the math in front of.

[Leila Hormozi]

You. We love when you do.

[Josh]

Math.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. All right, I'll be fast with it. All right, so we get 100 clicks on both of these. We've got A, which is our subscription, and we've got B, which is our lifetime. Okay, so let's say our conversion rate on this is 2% here. And let's say our conversion rate on our lifetime offer is 3% on the page. Whatever. All right, now our price for our subscription is going to be let's say $10 per month. And let's say that our lifetime offer is $50 one time. All right, that's it. Now our churn.

All right, our churn here, let's say that our turn on this is 10%. Okay? That means our LTV is going to be a hundred dollars.

So if we have 2 clicks, 2%, 2 clicks and we have 100 LTV, then we're going to make $200 in total, 100 clicks, which means our EPC is $2. If we're going through this one, our churn doesn't matter because it's lifetime, lifetime value is going to be $50. And so we got three clicks, which means we got $150. So our EPC here is going to be 100 divided 150 divided by 100, which is, I don't know, one and a half, I think.

So this would be our winner. All right, now the big caveat here is that it will take you 10 months to break even on that first offer versus getting five times the cash up front. So there's going to be a cash conversion cycle issue that you're going to have to deal with. Now these numbers actually don't make sense because realistically, you might have higher conversion at a $10 price point than 50. Then again, people don't like monthly recurring compared to a one time payment. It could be, it could go either way. And so if you're like, how do I pick which one you test Both you look at your earnings per click. The one that has the earnings per click that's higher is going to be the one that will make you the more money over time. And as long as you have the cash flow to sustain that, that's the one you do. If you don't have the cash to sustain it, then you have to start rejoicing. The money model. Read the green book. That's what it was all about.

[Leila Hormozi]

Boom. Snapshot.

[Alex Hormozi]

That. That's.

[Leila Hormozi]

Right.

Horosi Hotline, caller number.

[Alex Hormozi]

27. Next caller.

[Leila Hormozi]

Please. Did they hung.

[Alex Hormozi]

Up? They were like too hot. They were like, it's too hot getting out of the.

[Leila Hormozi]

Kitchen. Did you almost hang.

[Alex Hormozi]

Up? You almost hang up. You almost ghost us like Patrick, sw.

You hear.

[Jaz]

Us?

[Alex Hormozi]

Hello? Yeah. What's up, man? Tell us about the business. What's going on? What's the. What is the problem that you want to solve.

[Josh]

Today?

How's it going, guys? You still alive? They've been killing.

[Alex Hormozi]

It.

All right, tell me, man, what's your.

[Josh]

Name? So. So I run. My name is Dan. I run a center for seniors and the disabled day.

[Brian]

Program.

[Josh]

Okay. And most of our members are basically insurance.

[Alex Hormozi]

Based.

[Josh]

Yep.

[Alex Hormozi]

So.

You pick them up, you take care of the day, you drop them off. And you had day rates.

[Josh]

Right?

[Jaz]

Correct.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. Give them a meal. And the biggest issue that you have is that sometimes people don't want to come with you.

Is that the.

[Josh]

Problem? Basically biggest issue is, is growth. And in our area, we have a lot of kind of bad actors who are offering kickback and payment.

To join the service even though it's completely illegal because we are a federally funded.

[Alex Hormozi]

Program. Yeah. Yeah, super familiar.

So you're struggling with growth because you have illegal.

[Josh]

Actors.

That's not the. That's just an easy excuse to. To say, you know, but kind of the. The difficulty is focusing on. We kind of have three primary people to sell to. It's the actual person that will join the.

[Alex Hormozi]

Program.

[Josh]

Yep. A caregiver, either a mom or kid. Family needs.

[Alex Hormozi]

This.

[Josh]

Yeah. Or referral sources like doctors, social workers. So it's basically these three archetypes of people that, that we need to sell.

[Alex Hormozi]

To. Which one do you succeed the most.

[Josh]

With?

It's a good question.

The referral sources always seemed themed. Great. Because they have access to a ton of people.

I do in person lunches with them and do the whole song and dance. But to get a referral, it's very difficult because once again, people are also paying for referrals.

[Alex Hormozi]

So. But that's an excuse which we Said earlier.

[Brian]

Right?

[Alex Hormozi]

Correct. Okay, so let's just throw. Then just cast it out of your vocabulary for now. You're going to not do illegal things.

[Josh]

Right?

No, absolutely no. We've been in business for 20.

[Leila Hormozi]

Years. We do have competitors that do illegal.

[Alex Hormozi]

Things. So, like, it's like, it's a, it's a. It's like it's just something that's taking up room in your mind because you brought it up twice.

[Josh]

Already.

Absolutely.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right. Okay, so you're saying that you have these song and dance conversations and you're saying it's hard for you to convert from them saying, yes, you can come to our facility with a bus and pick up people and knock on.

[Josh]

Doors.

The pickups are from their house. That's when they've already become a.

[Alex Hormozi]

Member. Are you doing, are you doing multi family though?

[Josh]

No. Usually each location is a particular person. It's not like we're not picking up from like one place, like hundreds of people each. Each stop is one.

[Alex Hormozi]

Person.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah. And you've owned the business for 20.

[Josh]

Years.

Yeah, well, I joined about eight years ago as a.

[Alex Hormozi]

Partner. Okay, so can you take more customers than you currently.

[Josh]

Have?

Absolutely. Where we could take about.

Double, if not.

[Alex Hormozi]

Triple. Okay, so your demand, your demand constrained right now?

[Josh]

Yes.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. Okay. Domain can trade right now. So people don't know you exist. So we have to do more advertising in some way. So you said you have these three avatars. Do you know what one of these avatars is worth compared to the.

[Josh]

Others?

In a number of sense, no. But let's say if you advertise to one caregiver, that's one member and potentially a doctor's office is like 200 potential.

[Alex Hormozi]

Members. That sounds like pretty simple math to me. So what stops you from going to the physicians?

[Josh]

Nothing. I go to them. But to get consistent referrals. Surprisingly, we get referrals from people that I've never spoken to. Like we're in the local community, we're very well known. Yeah, but like they know us, they know our name. Yeah, but in terms of actually getting, getting a signature and getting a person to.

[Alex Hormozi]

Join.

[Josh]

Right. Very. So I don't have confidence in.

[Alex Hormozi]

That. You're good in the leads book, which hopefully you've read. Right.

The chapter that I want you to learn, like the back of your head is the affiliates chapter, because that's exactly what this is. So these positions are your affiliates and you are going to need like them. Just saying, yeah, sure, we'll refer people to you is not going to do anything. Right. Which you've already experienced. Yeah. So I prefer a launch, then integrate strategy, which is great. Why don't we send an email to all those people? Or if you want, I can hang out at your office, and after you meet with a patient, I'll meet with them after.

[Josh]

You.

That's.

[Alex Hormozi]

Interesting.

[Leila Hormozi]

Great.

Fam.

[Alex Hormozi]

Fam. Yeah. So you want to launch, which is, like, if you can get them to one to many, tell their audience about you. When I say audience, it is obviously their patient base. But, like, that would be thing one. That's the easy thing. Integration is what you want to have with an affiliate, which is how can you work in their existing flow so they have minimal change in business, but it ends up promoting you. So that's what. Let me send somebody to your office so that they can take this for you. Right. You can also say, like, you're worried about kickbacks. You can rent space if you wanted to and say, hey, I'll pay you $1,000 a month to put up a little. A little kiosk here. And that would be different than a kickback because it's not based on.

[Josh]

Performance. Interesting. I love.

[Alex Hormozi]

It.

[Josh]

Wonderful. You said you should go into business.

[Alex Hormozi]

Coaching. I wonder if you could do this professionally.