The Game w/ Alex Hormozi — Ep. 976:
"The Hard Truth About Growth Most Founders Avoid" — Hormozi Hotline feat. Leila Hormozi
Release Date: December 10, 2025
Host: Alex Hormozi
Special Guest: Leila Hormozi
Episode Overview
This episode of The Game is a fast-paced, high-impact advice session where Alex Hormozi and Leila Hormozi—two of the most influential voices in business and entrepreneurship—take live calls from founders, marketers, media creators, and operators. They dissect real growth problems, debunk common misconceptions about scaling, and illuminate the hard truths that most founders ignore on their path from $100M to $1B. The Hormozis’ signature directness, wisdom, and humor shine as they tackle issues ranging from client acquisition, churn, offer optimization, content scale, team building, and more.
Key Discussion Points, Insights, and Memorable Moments
1. Scaling a Performance-Based Marketing Agency (Joshua)
[00:28–10:06]
Situation:
- Joshua runs a niche agency for kitchen/bath remodelers, $8k/month revenue, $7k profit.
- Operates a pay-per-show model: $1k setup fee, $500-600 per qualified appointment.
- Wants advice on scaling and whether to ditch former (tree service) clients.
Insights and Advice:
- Sample size is too small:
“You need to get more data... at that point, that sample size is so small.”
—Leila Hormozi [03:12] - Don’t kill cash flow:
“I don’t think you should cut your cash flow. You only have like four customers, right?”
—Alex Hormozi [02:04] - Watch your margins for scale:
“Your cost per show relative to the revenue per show is kind of low... My fear is when you take this to scale, you’ll be less efficient and your margins are going to compress.”
—Alex Hormozi [04:02] - Go upmarket ASAP:
“You’re going to want to earn the right to go up market as fast as you can.”
—Alex Hormozi [04:56] - Avoid serving clients outside your ideal avatar:
“Don’t try to serve an avatar that isn’t best for you... that’s the biggest mistake people make.”
—Leila Hormozi [05:41] - Retention and Predictability:
“Customers who retain the most are the ones who understand how much they’re going to pay.”
—Leila Hormozi [06:28] - “Ask onboarding clients what their budget is... you need to show them you’re OK spending as much as they’re comfortable to start. You can coach them up from there once you get buy-in.”
—Leila Hormozi [07:25]
Memorable Moments:
- “Number go up. Good.” —Leila [09:13]
- “Literally just add a zero to what the people that you’re trying to attract are, and you will make significantly more money and love your life more.” —Alex [09:17]
2. Scaling a Local Media Newsletter (Jaz)
[10:09–17:37]
Situation:
- Jaz runs Winnipeg Digest, a city-focused newsletter/media company.
- 110k audience (40k on the list, 70k social), $10k/mo revenue, $6k/mo profit.
- Concern: Running out of advertisers or “ad space” as they grow.
Insights and Advice:
- Don’t worry about running out of advertisers:
“There’s 110,000 people in the city... You can for sure get enough advertisers.”
—Alex Hormozi [11:28] - Ad space is constrained by audience size and CPMs:
“You’re not going to run out of ad space... You’re going to have to make sure you’re pricing your CPMs appropriately.”
—Alex Hormozi [12:18] - Stay focused rather than niche down or branch out:
“I want you to just do more. You need way more.”
—Alex Hormozi [14:36] - Multiply ad inventory by splitting lists:
“If you triple your list size... you can send 12 emails to these people, 12 emails to these people, and 12 emails to these people. List A, B and C... and you can charge that many more times.”
—Alex Hormozi [17:13] - Monetize with SLO (Self-Liquidating Offer):
“Offer a 10 pack of guides... Like magazines do it once, make that 10 pack $37... If you can get 1 in 37 people to buy, your cost of acquisition is zero.”
—Alex Hormozi [15:53]
Memorable Quotes:
- “I feel like I just changed your life.” —Alex [15:47]
- “Do more of this. All you have to do is add a self-liquidating offer on the front end, you’ll be able to grow the hell out of your media.” —Alex [16:54]
- “What? A holiday lights company? That sounds awful.” —Leila [16:54]
3. Team and Fulfillment Bottlenecks for a Niche Coaching Business
[18:02–28:35]
Situation:
- Caller runs a remote sales coaching fulfillment business (45 communities, $2–4k retainer per client).
- Stuck as the only operator; not scalable.
Insights and Advice:
- Two staffing models:
- Full-time junior hires — Fewer to manage; limit is they’ll eventually leave to start their own biz.
“They see this as a learning opportunity, not an earning opportunity.”
—Leila Hormozi [25:02] - Fractional/part-time coaches (alumni) — Easier to find, harder to manage but less key-person risk.
“If you lose one, it’s not a big deal.”
—Leila Hormozi [25:30]
- Full-time junior hires — Fewer to manage; limit is they’ll eventually leave to start their own biz.
- Alumni as coaches:
“Take your most successful alumni and say: hey, want to make extra $5k/month and give back to the community?”
—Alex Hormozi [26:42] - Premium 'screened' talent upsell:
“Have a tier that’s $2,500 or $5,000 per head—and these ones are screened by me... That could add $150k to $300k a month.”
—Alex Hormozi [27:47] - Memorable moment:
“Call that a money model right there. I should write a book about that.”
—Alex Hormozi [28:21]
4. Plateaued Online Bootcamp (Brian, Tarsity I.O.)
[28:52–35:35]
Situation:
- Brian's coding bootcamp (adults, $9,200 per student), plateaued at 30–40 students per year.
- Most leads from podcast (10k downloads/mo), has 30k LinkedIn followers.
Insights and Advice:
- Not enough top-of-funnel:
“No one knows you exist... Podcasts are very, very difficult to grow because there’s very low suggestibility.”
—Alex Hormozi [31:50] - Repurpose and amplify content:
“Instead of making more podcasts, make more LinkedIn content... Repurpose that content, turn posts into YouTube longs, shorts.”
—Alex Hormozi [32:01] - Lead magnets:
“Give the first module away for free—something really valuable... you’ll get way more leads.”
—Alex Hormozi [33:14] - Organic first:
“You have so much meat on the bone with organic right now... I’d 5x down.”
—Alex Hormozi [35:19]
Memorable Quotes:
- “Video turns into audio much easier than audio turns into video.”
—Alex Hormozi [34:54]
5. Optimizing the Offer for a Pest Control Company (Josh)
[36:02–39:37]
Situation:
- Josh owns a brick & mortar pest control, $1M/year, wants to get to $5M.
- Bundling all services increases close rate, but decreases upsell potential and margins.
Insights and Advice:
- Follow the data—don’t overthink:
“If your close rate’s fine when you have the bundle, sell the bundle. Unless there’s some other major problem.”
—Alex Hormozi [38:41] - Simple solution:
“Raise the price on the bundle... tack on 20 (percent), double your margins. They won’t even know.”
—Alex Hormozi [38:52]
Memorable Quotes:
- “We have this thing everyone wants to buy, but it has lower margins. Well, especially going to upscale, they don’t know the difference.”
—Alex Hormozi [39:13]
6. Agency Growth and Exit Strategy in Martial Arts Niche (Paul)
[39:52–50:26]
Situation:
- Paul’s agency for martial arts schools ($420k revenue/$100k profit/year), stuck due to churn and volatile clients.
- Considering pivoting into brick & mortar kids education or continuing agency.
Insights and Advice:
- Understand retention and market volatility:
“Martial arts studios... have high churn... That volatility is reflected in your business and volatility is reflected in your business creates a business that is not valuable.”
—Alex Hormozi [43:06] - Leverage your acquisition skills in higher-retention industries:
“Find an industry that already has a product/service people don’t churn out of... Apply your skill there.”
—Alex Hormozi [44:21] - Match your skills to opportunity level:
“You have a Level 8 skill using on a Level 3 opportunity... Can you get a Level 8 opportunity?”
—Leila Hormozi [45:57] - Linear versus exponential thinking:
“Pick an opportunity that’s worth the pain, because it’s going to be pain no matter what.”
—Leila Hormozi [47:47] - Just Start:
“I’ve never felt ready before I tried something. You get ready by starting.”
—Leila Hormozi [48:52]
7. Early-Stage Creator: Scaling YouTube in the Outdoors Niche (Devin)
[50:51–59:27]
Situation:
- Devin has a small YouTube (2k subs, 250k monthly views on shorts), wants to quit job and earn $10k/month.
- Posting isn't consistent; wonders if he should monetize/grow other social channels.
Insights and Advice:
- Consistency is everything:
“YouTube is a game of consistency... If you want to get to great, it’s consistent improvement over time.”
—Leila Hormozi [53:02] - Long content for depth:
“Make longs to deepen your influence... Just repurpose shorts into longer videos.”
—Alex Hormozi [51:52] - Ignore monetization until hitting consistency:
“I wouldn’t even think about monetizing right now. Just get out one short a day, one long a week.”
—Alex Hormozi [54:05] - Environment is key:
“Put yourself in an environment where it makes it easy to achieve your goals, not hard.”
—Leila Hormozi [55:22] - Elimination of alternatives:
“Commitment is the elimination of alternatives.”
—Alex Hormozi [55:44] - Build confidence through keeping promises to self:
“If you can't stick with a commitment to yourself, you degrade the trust you have with yourself.”
—Leila Hormozi [57:12] - Social pressure and loneliness:
“Expect people around you to think it’s weird, not cool... In order to be exceptional, you have to become the exception.”
—Alex Hormozi [58:31]
8. Rapid-Fire Mini Q&A and Tactical Advice
[59:32–66:00]
Hiring the right person:
“Be the right person.” —Leila Hormozi [59:32]
Marketing agency for churches:
- Start with outreach, get 10 success stories for referrals before charging.
Posting daily for fitness content:
- “Look at the content you hate, ask why—there’s your piece of content.” —Leila Hormozi [60:19]
- “Don’t dunk on people. Make better stuff instead of tearing others down.” —Alex Hormozi [61:05]
New event companies vs. entrenched competitors:
- Use “small dog” frame: “It’s not my company vs their company, it's me vs employee #86—they won’t care like I do.” —Alex Hormozi [61:44]
Monthly vs one-time offers:
- Test both, compare earnings per click (EPC). Upfront cash matters for cash flow, test for LTV.
—Alex Hormozi [63:30–65:58]
9. Scaling a Senior Care Center: Outcompeting Questionable Actors
[66:13–72:19]
Situation:
- Dan runs a center for seniors/disabled adults; wants growth but faces competitors who pay (illegally) for referrals.
- Must market to: a) members, b) caregivers, c) referral sources (physicians, social workers).
Insights and Advice:
- Don’t dwell on the “illegal competitor” narrative:
“That’s just something taking up room in your mind... toss it out.”
—Alex Hormozi [68:46] - Prioritize high-leverage referrers:
“If a doctor’s office can mean 200 patients, go there.”
—Alex Hormozi [70:17] - Master affiliate/integration playbooks:
“Read the affiliates chapter in $100M Leads... launch and integrate: get them to send an email to all their people. Offer to hang at their office to meet patients after.”
—Alex Hormozi [70:53] - Creative “placement” Vs. kickbacks:
“You can rent space at the office—different than a kickback—so you’re compliant.”
—Alex Hormozi [72:13]
Notable Quotes & Timestamps
- “Raise the price on the bundle... tack on 20, double your margins.” —Alex, [38:52]
- “Don’t try to serve an avatar that isn’t best for you.” —Leila, [05:41]
- “You get ready by starting.” —Leila, [48:52]
- “Commitment is the elimination of alternatives.” —Alex, [55:44]
- “You have a Level 8 skill using on a Level 3 opportunity... Can you get a Level 8 opportunity?” —Leila, [45:57]
- “Small dog frame: It’s not my company vs their company, it's me vs employee #86.” —Alex, [61:44]
Key Takeaways From the Hormozis
- Focus on fundamentals: The biggest bottleneck is almost always getting more (better) data, more leads, higher-quality clients, or improving basic offer structure—not fancy tactics.
- Move upmarket fast: Avoid getting stuck with low-budget, high-churn clients. The same ops team can serve much bigger, higher-value clients with less stress and more profit.
- Retention > Acquisition for value: For exit-scale and long-term wealth, choose business models (or verticals) with natural stickiness and high customer retention.
- Consistency compounds: In content and business alike, nothing substitutes for consistent, high-volume execution.
- Don’t overcomplicate it: When in doubt, keep your offerings simple, play to your strengths, and don’t “solve” problems that aren’t confirmed by data.
- Think bigger: Most founders have skills that exceed their current opportunity. Find and pursue exponential opportunities, even if you don’t feel ready.
For more in-depth tactical frameworks, check resources like $100M Leads and $100M Offers, or the free courses and podcasts at acquisition.com.
Episode Structure
- [00:01–10:06] Performance Marketing Agency scaling problems
- [10:09–17:37] City media/newsletter scale and monetization
- [18:02–28:35] Fulfillment, team, and monetization in coaching
- [28:52–35:35] Bootcamp plateau: marketing and funnel issues
- [36:02–39:37] Pest control service: offer and pricing optimization
- [39:52–50:26] Martial arts agency churn, exit strategy, linear vs exponential
- [50:51–59:27] Content creator (YouTube): scale, consistency, and environment
- [59:32–66:00] Rapid-fire Q&A (recruiting, content, pricing frameworks)
- [66:13–72:19] Senior care: overcoming shady competition and activating affiliate referrals
Hormozi Hotline delivers direct, honest, and immediately actionable business advice in a refreshing, no-fluff style. For entrepreneurs at any stage, it’s a relentless reminder that “the fundamentals are the shortcut,” and the fastest growth comes by attacking the real problems founders most want to ignore.