Why You Need a Goal Big Enough to Scare You | Ep. 949

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Why You Need a Goal Big Enough to Scare You"

The Game with Alex Hormozi | Ep. 949
Date: February 19, 2026
Host: Alex Hormozi, joined by Layla Hormozi

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Main Theme & Purpose

In this episode, Alex and Layla Hormozi reflect on Alex's widely-discussed Tony Robbins interview, addressing questions from listeners about vulnerability, ambition, purpose, masculinity, and impact. The pair discuss the importance of moonshot goals, emotional connection to impact, public versus private persona, and their personal experiences with goals, struggles, and family planning.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Behind the Scenes of the Tony Robbins Interview

• The Robbins episode generated more engagement than any in years ([00:02]).
• Alex describes being nervous interviewing Tony, especially after losing his prepared intro ([01:11]):

  "I hit the thing on my phone because I had kind of scripted out a nice intro, and it deleted as I did it. And then he was there, so I was like, well, fuck..." – Alex ([01:17])

• Layla notes that Tony is a “force” in person and that being nervous shows you care ([01:24]).

2. Public Persona vs. Private Self

• Alex discusses the difference between his on-camera business persona and his real-life self:

  "Behind, like, closed doors, you walk around this place. I do fudge with everyone… I do fuck with everybody. Yes." – Alex ([06:16]-[06:23])

• Both Alex and Layla highlight how filming in front of team members influences how vulnerable or relaxed they feel ([04:42]-[05:27]).
• They observe that much of their output is intentionally practical, not emotional, and is tailored to their audience—often young men in business ([03:39], [08:24]-[08:47]).

3. The 'Grindset' Image, Suffering & Utility

• Alex addresses perceptions that he’s always "hardcore" or miserable. He finds purpose and satisfaction in doing hard things:

  "I've defined my value by utility, not by my enjoyment." – Alex ([10:56])

• Discusses happiness vs. utility using the example of monks vs. entrepreneurs ([11:12]):

  "I would rather be like, I'll sacrifice my enjoyment of life to make the world better. And I think on some level, like, I feel more satisfied with that..."

• Tony Robbins encouraged balancing impact with emotional fulfillment; Alex admits he struggles to emotionally connect to large-scale impact ([25:36]-[27:43]).

4. Vulnerability, Masculinity & Social Expectations

• Layla brings up how men are only “allowed” to be vulnerable after achieving a certain level of success; for women, toughness and vulnerability are both rewarded ([16:49]-[17:26]).

  "You only get rewarded for showing that side... once you get to a certain level" – Layla ([17:11])

• Alex reflects on the double standard and the challenge for men to display vulnerability before success ([17:36]-[18:38]).

5. Moonshot Goals & Emotional Ties to Impact

• Layla emphasizes the motivation and fulfillment that come from chasing bold, concrete goals ([22:20]):

  "I think both of us feel more alive when we have like a goal like that...it's not about the money…it is about who you become accomplishing them, and that you feel like you're doing greater good for others." – Layla ([23:02]-[24:11])

• Alex’s challenge: finding ways to feel emotional highs from impact, not just logical satisfaction ([25:36]-[27:43]):

  "I have no emotional connection to it [the impact]...and so also part of it was like the expect, like, where's the watermark for how, how emotionally invested I get?" – Alex ([25:36])

• Both talk about the need to create feedback loops, measure goals, and inject stakes to generate emotional resonance ([33:10]-[35:30], [48:32]-[49:09]).

6. Reconciling Competing Priorities

• Layla discusses her own struggle to balance obsessive work goals with personal health and life ambitions ([29:09]-[30:54]):

  "I have these other goals that...don't help anybody but me, and...they will detract from this one."

• Both agree there’s no single formula for reconciling work, impact, personal life, and fulfillment ([30:25]-[30:54]).

7. Business, Relationship, and Personal Brand Boundaries

• Talks about why they deliberately avoid making relationship content, despite its popularity ([20:05]-[21:09]).
• They have high standards for their own relationship but don’t want to position themselves as gurus ([21:09]-[21:35]).
• Perception gets skewed by what content algorithms reward ([19:39]-[20:05]).

  "My input ratio is nine to one. Like, maybe nicer or more neutral or whatever, but, like...the brand can appear far more lopsided because of the algorithm, not because of my inputs..." – Alex ([19:39])

8. On Having Children—Personal Disclosure

• Both open up about their fertility journey, IVF struggles, and the pressure/questions they face ([37:41]-[44:45]).

  "We did IVF...and it did not work...I had a lot of issues...So, like, when [Tony] said that, I was like, I could tell you the whole story, but it'll take like an hour." – Layla ([37:41]-[38:53]) "We are both open to children entering our lives. We do not have them right now. And if they do not come, our lives will be great. And if they come, our lives will also be great." – Alex ([43:04])

• Layla shares regret that the “wait to have kids” cultural narrative made her wait until it became physiologically harder ([39:35]-[40:37]).
• They stress to listeners the importance of freezing eggs/having options and dismiss judgmental comments ([44:45]-[45:33]).

9. Pain, Suffering, and Achievement

• Distinction between pain (part of the process) and suffering (mental narrative) ([51:58]-[53:23]):

  "I want to pick goals that pain will not dissuade me from pursuing." – Alex ([52:27]) "If I'm going to experience pain either way, I'd rather have the pain be worth it." – Alex ([53:19])

• Layla adds, “You can handle it. I tell myself that, like, this year, especially, like, with so much physical pain… and you can handle it.” ([59:29]-[59:41])

10. Analytical vs. Anabolic Alex

• Refers to Tony Robbins’ joke about “Analytical Alex” and “Anabolic Alex”; Alex confirms he has different states:

  "People love that...Do you actually experience that split? ...When I'm in the gym, I am quite literally anabolic Alex." ([56:00]-[57:21])

• Both agree home and work personas are different by necessity.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On impact vs. fulfillment:

  "It's not about the money...it's about who you become accomplishing them, and that you feel like you're doing greater good for others." – Layla ([24:11])

• On duty and success:

  "To whom much is given, much as expected. And, like, I see that if I had a proverb for my life, that would have been it." – Alex ([63:10])

• On the purpose of teaching content:

  "My content for someone like me who's just like, just tell me exactly what to do." – Alex ([08:47])

• On pain and progress:

  "If I'm going to experience pain either way, I'd rather have the pain be worth it." – Alex ([53:19])

• On the challenge of vulnerability for men:

  "You're only allowed to show weakness when you are not weak as a guy." – Alex ([17:50])

• On controlling what you can:

  "You can create the conditions for success. You cannot decide if success occurs." – Layla ([47:01])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Nerves/interviewing Tony Robbins: [01:06] – [01:57]
• Public persona vs. private self: [03:34] – [06:25]
• Defining utility & success: [10:56] – [12:10]
• Balancing vulnerability & masculinity: [16:26] – [18:38]
• On moonshot goals: [22:15] – [24:11]
• Emotional ties to impact: [25:36] – [27:43]
• Reconciling business vs. personal life: [29:09] – [30:54]
• Fertility journey & public assumptions: [37:41] – [44:45]
• Pain, suffering & goal pursuit: [51:58] – [53:23]
• Encouragement over instruction: [59:29] – [60:29]
• Five key words for the Tony interview: [62:36] – [63:32]

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Conclusion

This episode pulls back the curtain on Alex’s mindset after his viral Tony Robbins interview, addressing listener curiosities with honesty and nuance. Alex and Layla offer a unique blend of practical ambition and personal vulnerability, discussing everything from business goals to private struggles with health and family—demonstrating their belief that goals should make you grow, scare you, and mean something personal, not just professional.

Final message:

"It will be painful. It will be more painful than you expect. And that's okay." – Alex ([59:26]) "You can handle it. I tell myself that, like, this year, especially, like, with so much physical pain, like, I was just like, this is going to suck. And I was like, and you can handle it." – Layla ([59:29])

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For anyone chasing something big—this conversation is a masterclass in integrating ambition, resilience, and authenticity.

Transcript

[A]

My Tony Robbins podcast just posted a couple days ago and got more engagement than any video on my channel for the last two plus years. And I got tons of questions about, like, what's happening next, how I plan to pursue, you know, the promise that I made of getting a hundred thousand guys to 100,000 and a bunch of other stuff. And since Layla and I spent a lot of time talking about it before, during, and after the podcast.

[B]

Yeah, we're gonna sit down. I'm gonna ask Alex some questions about it that you guys had that I found, looking, looking through the repost, looking through all the articles people have written about it. So hopefully this can answer a lot of the questions.

[A]

And I'm going to ask Layla questions back. We will converse.

[B]

So I thought it would be fun to ask you questions about the podcast. And just like, honestly, the questions I had and the questions that I think people were asking, because I read through a lot of the comments, I saw a lot of the things that people were posting online. And so I wanted to ask you selfishly, because I want to know some of these answers, and then I think these other people would like to know the answers too. Is that cool?

[A]

Sounds so cool.

[B]

We're going to find out. Were you nervous when you were interviewing Tony?

[A]

Yeah, I was nervous in the beginning. I think there's two things. One was right when I started the podcast, I hit the thing on my phone because I had kind of scripted out a nice intro, and it deleted as I did it. And then he was there, so I was like, well, fuck. So I was like, all right, what was I about to say?

[B]

That when you were like, it. Delete. And then you were like, he doesn't give a fuck.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. I was just like, there's no point. Like, here we are. So that was one. And I think that just probably carried a little bit into it. And then, yeah, I think it just came down to, like, I just cared. You know what I mean? Like, I wanted to. I didn't want to waste his time. I wanted to make sure that it was good. I also. You were there, so I wanted to make sure that, like, you thought it was good. And there's just people that I cared about who were. Who were there. And so I just wanted to make.

[B]

I mean, I would give a. Yeah,

[A]

that's what I'm saying.

[B]

I mean, I don't know if anyone's, like, been around Tony, but he's a force. I mean, like, he is. He's. He is who he says he is. And I think he's an incredible person. He's.

[A]

We've been with him three times, and, yeah, he's the same way. He's always like that.

[B]

I've always been a fan. I mean, it's been like, 14, 15, 6. No. Oh, God, I'm old. It's been.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Oh, my God. It's only 20, 17 years. Yeah. That's so scary.

[A]

You were. You were watching at age 5?

[B]

Yeah, I was a baby. Yeah. Yeah. No, I. Because I saw people were like, oh, is Alex nervous? I'm like, dude, of course. Of course you get nervous. What do you mean? You want to do a good job. You care. I feel like nervousness is when you care. Yeah.

[A]

I think part of it is, like, I'm a big fan of prep. Right. And so, like, anybody sold a launch, Like, I prepare. I practice lots and lots of times to make sure things sound flawless. And, like, going into something, I feel great about it because I'm like, I have done this so many times that I'm bored of doing it, and that's when I know I'm prepared. But with that one, I had prepared, and then it got deleted. So I was like, that sucked. But also, it's like, you don't know which way it's going to go. So there's just always, I think, a little bit more stakes.

[B]

You know, a lot of people, I was, you know, reading through the comments. There are a lot of comments watching the podcast. They're like, are you okay? Oh, my God. Like, are you miserable? And I think it's interesting because, like, as your wife and business partner, even this is not what I get most of the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and so I'm curious, like, why do you think people who watch a lot of your content, why do you think there's a perception that you're like, what is it? Like, grind?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Work yourself to death. Do you think that's an accurate perception? Yeah, is my first question.

[A]

So, one, recording, you always want to be as natural as possible. The problem is there's always that extra variable, which is that, one, it's being recorded, and two, for me, at least in my set, it's like, I have five people behind this camera. And so there's fundamentally, it's a different condition than just, like, you and me being in a room, doing whatever. Right. So, one, there's different conditions. Yeah. Calm down. Right. Second, is that the nature of the people in the room? So I have a disproportionately young male crew, and we're actually Working on this because consciously, subconsciously, I want to make sure that it's valuable for them because they're humans and they're in the room. And so I tend to just probably think, yeah, probably. That's how I think about.

[B]

I walk in and I'm like, fuck, yeah.

[A]

No, my reporting studio looks like the Death Star, which I hate. But that's another topic for another time. But like, I want to make sure that it's, it's like good for, you know, good for them. And so a lot of them need more of that. I think they're like, then like, hey, everything's going to be awesome. Enjoy life.

[B]

I mean, it's interesting because like, if I walk into the sales, the sales den, I'm like, get to work. You know, you're like, it's a different energy you've got to put into it. So, yeah, and I get that it's actually interesting because I was sharing with the team that was shy. Like when I first started making content, everyone would be like, you're so intense. You're like a robot. I had like a 19, a 20 year old, all these dudes who like, I didn't feel like I could be vulnerable in front of them or talk about anything. Like, it was just like, I felt like. And I'm like their female boss that I already want to make sure they're taking seriously and respecting. And like, it was just a lot of. So I think there's always an element that I, I remember making the team aware of. I was like, do you guys know it's very awkward for me to film in front of you with some of these personal things? And they were like, why? I was like, because my job, we ain't like that. Because I'm not an influencer. Because I'm your boss first and foremost.

[A]

Yeah, right. Ye.

[B]

I'm not the talent. And I think that's a very interesting dynamic. So, yeah, I think that'd be a huge unlock for you is having somewhat estrogen in the room.

[A]

Yeah, we're working on getting at least one estrogen in the room for now. But then the last part of the question was like, are you always this, you know, are you miserable or are you always this hardcore? Which I think are separate questions. But no, I don't think I'm miserable. Um, I, I mean, you know me better than anyone. I feel like I'm. I actually feel like I'm just very. Even for the most part. Like, I don't. I think that's most. I think I have high I have low peaks and I have low valleys.

[B]

I think that in front of a camera, you act. You have more neutrality than I think you're more playful in real life.

[A]

That's fair. Behind, like, closed doors, you walk around this place. I do fudge with everyone.

[B]

That's with everybody. You, like, crack jokes the whole time.

[A]

I do fuck with everybody. Yes. This is true.

[B]

Like, I feel like if somebody followed you, the camera, they'd be like, is this for real?

[A]

Oh, I. So one of the biggest. I don't know if you know this, so one of the editors, I was like, why is this taking so long? Like, honestly, like, during the shoots, like, editing out all the. The raucous shit you say, that's completely not HR compliant.

[B]

I am aware of that because people tell me.

[A]

And to worry about it as we get bigger as a company, like, if this gets out, I'm not politically correct. FYI, if anyone didn't know, we would have never guessed. Yeah. Right. So. But am I hardcore? I think there's portions of me that are hardcore for sure, when it comes to doing the work. Absolutely. And I think part of it is, like, what do I think for specific business content? I think a lot of times the stuff I put out is the stuff I feel like I needed, which was like, it's okay for things to suck. Like, if things are great, you don't need someone to tell you it's okay that they're great. I think it's more important to hear that it's okay that they suck.

[B]

Yeah. I don't disagree with that. Like, I think they think that they still suck. Even when you get to your level. That's hard.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it's like, people. What do people aspire for?

[A]

Yeah, I hear that.

[B]

Gotta let them know that, you know, I'm not that miserable, you know?

[A]

No, like, yeah, I mean, this was. I mean, this was. The crux of the whole interview was just like, the. Like, I think I have. I have no problem with how my life is. Tony, then, as any, you know, salesperson would say, is like, well, you asked that question, which means you want more. It's like, well, of course I'll always want better. I'll always want more. But I'm not dissatisfied with my life. I. I will always strive for more. I mean, the nature of the question kind of. I feel like led there.

[B]

I feel like that. And he said. He said he washed your content.

[A]

Did he?

[B]

Yes. Oh, play that clip.

[A]

Yeah. Fact check. Fact check.

[B]

He said, I've seen some of your content.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He said very analytical.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, sure.

[B]

I think it's interesting because it's like this. I don't. I mean, I don't know if this is. But like, for me, it's like, okay, I'm trying to teach people things about business. I'm not assessing the emotional, vulnerable side of myself when I'm doing that. But then. But then your brand becomes big enough that people are like, are you not a human? And you're like, oh, my God, I was trying to teach. When I'm in teaching mode, it's like a different mode than human mode.

[A]

Well, yeah. And to that end, for me, again, like, the making the content that I wanted or needed was. I personally struggle with vague language. And so I always try to be like, well, what is. What do I have to do for joy? What do I have to do for heart? What do I have to do for passion? Otherwise, I don't know what it means. And so that's why I have to spend like so much time trying to define things. Otherwise, it's like I could just shout at the camera and be like. Be passionate. But it's like, what does that mean? I don't know what that means. And so that's. And to be fair, that was some of the nature of the questions that I had with Tony. But I've tried to make my content for someone like me who's just like, just tell me exactly what to do.

[B]

Yeah, I get that.

[A]

And I think, because if you're in that frame, then you're going to be thinking through that lens, like, how do I break this down?

[B]

Yeah, it's interesting. I think what I learned from. Well, what was your biggest takeaway from that piece of content doing so well?

[A]

I think that the intro had a portion of it just saying, like, I could have tried to make this some algorithm thing, but I just wanted to ask the questions I wanted to ask. I think that framed the conversation differently than maybe some of my other content. And I think on some level, probably if I had to guess, it'd be relatability. I think a lot of people, independent of whatever your achievement is, everyone has reached micro peaks and been like, is this it? And whether that's like you hit a billion dollars, you hit $10,000, or you graduate high school or you graduate with a PhD, you win an award, whether it's the Nobel Prize or best for your little community, like, it still feels it's a win, you know what I mean? And I think a lot of people have worked hard, had the thing they want to have happen to what degree, whatever, and then been like, is this it? Or, and, or is this right? And I think a lot of us just want to know, like, we're on the right path. And I think that's what probably like the crux of that interview was for me was like, I have always defined my. I've defined my value by utility, not by my enjoyment. And I've. And I mean, to be fair, I mean, it is very much a worldview of mine.

[B]

Do you define success by utility rather than.

[A]

Yes, absolutely. Because I remember when I was in college when I was really obsessed with happiness and positive psychology. I think the terminology, one of the

[B]

first things you told me on our second date.

[A]

Yeah. And because I took the hypothetical extreme of like, what is the happiest person in the world? It's the monks, the Tibetan monks that meditate for 16 hours a day. They're four standard deviations. Measurably, they're the happiest people. Four standard deviations above the norm in terms of subjective well being. But when I thought about that versus Steve Jobs or Elon, somebody who I think at least by their own admission are relatively miserable people, but they've helped so many people. I'm like, which one would I rather be? And I think maybe it's a hero complex, but like, I would rather be like, I'll sacrifice my enjoyment of life to make the world better. And I think on some level, like, I feel more satisfied with that and I can, that, that pushes me through things. Whereas if I'm in the hills meditating with no belongings and no responsibilities, I'm sure that I could increase my subjective well being. But like, so what?

[B]

Like, that's avoidance to a degree.

[A]

Yeah. And to be fair, I'm sure, I'm sure we're gonna have to bed monks in the comments. It's not what it's about, but. No, but then. And then, of course, Tony's a great, like, well, how do we, you know, how do we do both? And I think that was the nature of the question was like, can I, can I continue to have the impact that, that I believe that we're, you know, we're building towards.

[B]

Well, we've talked about this for the last year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because all this stuff happened with my health a year ago and we did start having that conversation. There's not something we've really. Well, I don't think you've talked about how quick would happen.

[A]

I don't know what your health.

[B]

No, just like our talking about being able to Spend more time with each other. Have more time. You see my family and your family more. Like some of those things, like, those have been conversations that we've had. Has that you haven't, I don't know.

[A]

I don't think I've talked much about it.

[B]

Yeah. So I thought it was interesting because it's like he was asking these things and I was like, I actually feel like we've both made a lot of progress in the last year, despite it being, I'd say the first half year was, like, fairly shitty.

[A]

Quite shitty.

[B]

It was probably a shady year.

[A]

I had a local minimum.

[B]

I also think that the good thing about pain in any regard is that it makes you stop and reflect. And I think, like we both said, like, like, I tend to get very obsessive over things. I think you are obsessive over things. We probably both reinforce each other's obsessiveness. It's worked out and it's worked well. But at some point, you know, at least for me, I was like, I, I want to have a little bit more of the other stuff too. And not because I, like, want it, want it. Like, I think I, I, I get so much reinforcement of work. Probably cause we work together too, and my dad works in the business. Like, it's, I love the people we work with. Like, it's fun. But I was like, I think that I will be able to sustain over a longer time horizon. This, if I don't, if I prioritize a little bit more of these other

[A]

things, the trouble I have is, like, I don't think I will. Tony brought up, like, you'll have this explosion of energy, this explanation from output perspective. I do not suffer from lack of energy. I can work for a very long time per day and days in a row. And I also think, because the thing that I struggle with is, I think about 2,000 years ago, I think about a farmer in the field just doing rice patties for the entirety of his life so that he could provide for his family. And I just don't see that as a bad life. Like, I don't think that guy, like, sucks. I think there's a lot of honor in that. And I think this is where, like, Tony brought up the duty thing. He's like, well, if, if you define this in a certain way as a good thing, and I do define duty as a good thing. Like, I see a man's duty to his family, to his company, to the, the people that are around, like, I see that as something, if anything, it's probably one of the things I'm most proud of is fulfilling what I believe to be my. My duty. Like, I'll put my brick in the wall. Like, I will do, like, and then I will die, and that'll be fine. And somebody else will put their brick in the wall above mine. And I'm good with it. And so, I mean, this. That was the whole. I mean, that was the whole conversation because obviously Tony has helped more people more successful than me do better in some way. And this is. This is kudos to you. Like, before I had the conversation, you really just reminded me you're like, dude, just be open. You know what I mean? And so I think it can be tougher, you know, I think for guys in general to be more open also, like, in my content especially, it's like, I have a bunch of young dudes behind the camera. I'm not like, hey, guys, let me bear my heart to you. And so. But no, just your queuing beforehand. And honestly, you being in the room, like, think about how many times that we've actually recorded in the same room. It's not often like this. Like, you've been in the, like, the room. Room for recording. Like, I don't know, two or three. I mean, not a lot of times. Right? It was actually all because of you. That's why I did well. That's. That's. I think that's really my biggest takeaway of why the content did well was that you knew that. All right, great.

[B]

So I think.

[A]

I think we got it. I think we nailed it, right? We got it. Okay.

[B]

No, no. Yeah. No, I understand. I mean, I think about it because I'm like, it's. It's tough for guys because if you. I mean, like, I was talking to you about this because I said. I mean, I'm just completely transparent. I told you. I was like, I think that you could be a little bit more vulnerable and, like, share a little bit more of, like, how you feel, because you look how you look. You've accomplished what you've accomplished naturally.

[A]

Good.

[B]

You have, like, a very. You've accomplished things that are incredible, and you've done a lot of really hard. But if I were to tell that to, like, all dudes, and I was like, you should be a little more vulnerable. Like, I. I mean, even to me, as a woman would look at some of them and they hadn't accomplished those things. They didn't look like you. They hadn't done all this hard shit. And I'd be like, that's a Little weak, you know? Some weak.

[A]

Right? It's real. No, super real. Super real.

[B]

Yeah. And so it's interesting because, like, I think right now when I look at, like, women, I feel like I get rewarded for being tough, and I think I get rewarded for being vulnerable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think for guys, you only get rewarded for showing that side or even is accepted.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Once you get to a certain level, like, if. If Tony Robbins cries, nobody gives a fuck. They're like, he's an amazing human. Like, it's not even a thought. It's just like, he.

[A]

He's a 6, 7 billionaire. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. And I see you the same way. Like, if you choke up, it's, like, actually incredibly meaningful and moves people. I don't think. I know.

[A]

Cry more. Why don't I cry more? I cried at our wedding.

[B]

So Alex cried at our wedding. I did not. I didn't know what was happening.

[A]

Yeah, it was dead on the inside.

[B]

No, I was excited. It was. It was the first time you ever cried in front of me.

[A]

Yeah. I was like, you're in now.

[B]

But I do think that's hard for guys. I mean, I think in general, it's

[A]

a change in behavior, though, because, like, what. Like, what took you to get you here doesn't get you there. Whatever is like, you're only allowed to show weakness when. When you are not weak as a guy. Like, if you have. If you have, like, it's. It is. It's 100. I mean, it's a double standard. It is what it is. But, like, if a guy's, you know, a loser by. By societal norms, you know what I mean? Them being like, oh, my God, like, things are hard. People are like, bro, you need to just, like, lose some weight, get out of the house, do something before you're, like, allowed to do that. Like, of course you're sad, like you have nothing going for you. But at a certain point, like, I guess. I guess at some point it flips where you just seem intimidating.

[B]

Unrelatable.

[A]

Unrelatable, yeah, it's a better word.

[B]

Do you think that there's a difference between, like, your public Persona and how you actually are?

[A]

Yeah, not on purpose, but I think I thought about this a lot. But basically, one, I'm making almost exclusively teaching content when I'm making stuff. And so it's like, I'm not, like, spending my day teaching people. That's not, like, really what my time is. It's in this micro thing. Because we're trying to maximize the value per second for anybody who's who's consuming it. The other thing is that content, that If I make 10 pieces of content and one piece of content is, like, more hardcore, and if there's a need or demand for hardcore content, that one piece of content will get 100 times the views as my other nine. And so my input ratio is nine to one. Like, maybe nicer or more neutral or whatever, but, like, I might emote, but from a more grindy, you know, grindset mindset perspective. Because, like, stuff does suck a lot of times. And my big belief is, like, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just part of getting there. And even Tony said that too. He was like, listen, it's not always sunshine and rainbows when you're pursuing things you want. It just is what it is. And so I think preparing that and if anything, like, being the extreme version of that, so that hopefully it's like you prepare as hard as possible so that life is easier. But that One video gets 100 times the view. So from a representation perspective, the brand can appear far more lopsided because of the algorithm, not because of my inputs or my desire.

[B]

That's a really good point. I think I've had that. Because, like, I remember you were on Twitter.

[A]

Everyone thinks we have relationship content. And we had to. I mean, the people who are listening to this don't know this, but, like, we had to. We had to limit, like, marriage, make relationship content. Well, probably some people, but, like, when you and I do, like, posts together.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, for the first, like, few that we did, those posts outperformed our norm by, like, 10x because it was like, has a relationship. Yeah, everyone has relationships in marriage. And so all of a sudden, and we had to, like, tell our team, like, no, we're not trying to be.

[B]

Yeah, I remember that.

[A]

The relationship or marriage people.

[B]

I'm trying to be a relationship guru.

[A]

No, exactly. But also to your question of, like, well, does it represent reality? Well, of course not, because we're purposely curating. Like, we're just talking about business because we don't want to. We don't purport to have perfected. You know, we've only been together 10 years. Right. Like, there's plenty of people been married for 40 years, and they have more context on the stuff than we do. And we. It's not like we really act. I mean, we study. I mean, of course we, you know, we invest in our relationship and we study and we read stuff. But I wouldn't say, like. I would say our business acumen is superior. To our relational acumen.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

We spend a lot learning and I think we're more comfortable saying that. And so that's what we talk about. Like, we're big believers in proof. And so it's like we have a lot of proof here. So this is what we talk about in our content. But it doesn't mean that the content is everything. But people's perceptions are what they see, which I can understand.

[B]

I also think we have incredibly unrealistic and high standards of what good enough. That. And we're probably better than most of the relationship gurus. But I'm being honest. Like, I've just. I. I can say that at this point.

[A]

That's right. I can say that.

[B]

Yeah, it's fine.

[A]

We've made it a decade. We've got our first double digits.

[B]

It's also like the amount of time you spend together, the experiences you have together, the things.

[A]

We did this math. We did this math. We've had the equivalent of like a 60 year marriage for the average couple that spends two hours or three hours a night together.

[B]

We haven't told each other.

[A]

Yeah, I know. Well, yeah, you never know.

[B]

Every day be slipping that cyanide into that.

[A]

And cheese Layla would definitely kill by poisoning.

[B]

By poison.

[A]

I think. I think so. Well, I have some questions for you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, go for it. So what do you want to know about my. My non. Interview with Tony?

[A]

Well, I was gonna say what part of. What part of it hit the hardest for you because you said you cheered up. I couldn't see because I was interviewing.

[B]

But, like, I think the part that resonated made the most sense to me was him talking about Moonshot goal. Because I think, like the book launch was that for you. I think that you have this ability to set a very, like, descriptive, tangible goal on something very big. And I think that that's actually really important. And even though when you're like, working towards it, you seem like you're not sleeping well, you're doing all this stuff. Like, I still feel like you are happier doing it. And I, like, prefer you doing that, even though it's worse for me.

[A]

So this is what.

[B]

Because, like, we spend more time together when we're not charging towards something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I think both of us feel more alive when we have like a goal like that. And like, I. I need goals like that too. And so, you know, for me, it's like, I think that. And also just say, like, I see a lot of, like, there's a struggle for men right now. I think in general, and women and relationship is whole stuff. Right. I think, like, guys need a quest. They need something to do. Like, they need to have something that they're working towards. And I think that a lot of I was talking to somebody earlier saying, like, I think that sometimes they're punished for that by people that they're with, by their other, by society, for, like, trying to accomplish something and told, like, that's wrong and it's materialistic, or it's all these things. Like, it's all this stuff. But I don't think it's about. It's in my opinion, because I like having those goals. It is not about the money. It is not about the outcome. It is about who you become accomplishing them, and that you feel like you're doing greater good for others. And I think for me, that's a very, like, masculine part of myself. But I feel that way with the company. For example, like, leading the company, doing all the things I do here. Like, that feels incredibly gratifying, like, more than anything. And it's often painful in the short term, but it pays off in the long term. And I get to see the fruits of my labor. I think watching that part of the interview and weaving it in with all the other content I've seen around him, I think what he's really good at is incentivizing people to build out these very tangible goals that are above what they thought was possible. And I think it's something that you did with the book launch that I think, like, the unlock is, what's that next one for you? And it's something that's more tangible from not just the business value standpoint, but also the impact standpoint. I think that it's basically like, how do you marry the two into one goal? That was like, my takeaway. It's like, the goal is kind of like John Mackey. He had his book, you know, he's the founder. Yeah. And it has the star of, like, basically, how do you make it a win for the community, the business, the client, the customer, the partner, et cetera? It's like, how do you create that moonshot goal that does all those things? I think we're at a point now where it's like, it's not even interesting unless we have something that can not just be impressive from a business standpoint. Like, I tell team all the time, it's like, I know we can build a $10 billion company doing private equity doing all this, but, like, I have zero interest in that if it doesn't make the world better in some way. How do we do that? And so that was like my biggest takeaway from things that I took for myself and things that I took for you. Just observations, like, hopefully I'd say inspiration for other people watching it because I think a lot of people are just, they're too scared to set those goals because they're like, what if I fail?

[A]

My big takeaway was actually maybe like a tiny, small comment that he made, but it was about creating the emotional tie towards it because from an impact perspective, we set the. I was saying, I want to do 100,000 men to 100,000, but school, we've got already several hundred thousand people who use it to literally pursue that end. The amount of people who messaged me after the podcast being like, I'm already one of those guys, like, here's my 100,000. Here's my. You got me there. I, you know, I became a millionaire because you, like, we get stopped in the street all the time, like, I'm a millionaire because, like, we get that a lot. And so it's not about, of course, it's about the impact, right? So you have the, the business outcome. You have the impact outcome. Like, we donated, you know, 3.6 million books at the launch. So like, there was the impact side of it. And people, every day, thousands of people every day are books for free because other people paid for them, like, which is awesome. But I have no emotional connection to it, right? And even when somebody stops me in the street, it's a, it's a 60 second conversation and I love seeing it. And I'm like, that's awesome. But I'm not like, drawn to tears. And so also part of it was like the expect, like, where's the watermark for how, how emotionally invested I get? And I know Tony said he still, you know, appreciates everything. And I think I always have this hard time of, like, there are acceptable things to say in that setting. And like I, in, in another mood, in another day, I would probably say exactly what Tony said and be like, and every time someone comes up to me, I'm always grateful and it's always amazing. But just like, I think Tony even said this, but like, you get used to everything. And so, like, how do you not get used to things, including the impact? And so for me, it's like, it doesn't change anything about what I'm going to do. We're still going to do that. Because what I want to, like, my logical brain will still be there at night being like, we're doing a good job, we're doing good stuff. But it would be great to have some of the quote, emotional highs that go with it. Which my then meta takeaway from that was that you need novelty in the impact itself in order to not have a hedonic adaptation to it.

[B]

Well, and when you accomplish a lot of really big stuff, you get acclimated to big reinforcers. And then it's like people who speak on stage all the time and they're like, everyone's clapping and they're like, I feel nothing. It's like that's just being a human getting used to the stimulus. So yeah, no, I get that. Just gotta go. Just getting bigger.

[A]

Which I feel like is the basis of a lot of the stuff that I talked about. It's just like, yeah, it's do the boring work. It's, you know, it's suffering is finding goals that your worth is worth suffering for. Right. And obviously Tony was against that definition, but that is real for me and I know, and I know it's real for a lot of other people.

[B]

Well, I think one way I think about it just alternative is I, I'm like, life is 50. 50.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Make the 50 shitty worth it with the 50 good being, doing good enough. You know what I mean?

[A]

It's like can't always be stunning. It's can't always be sunny.

[B]

Yeah, sunny. No matter what path you take, whether it's to flip burgers at McDonald's or to build a business that feeds a billion people, 50% of your life is gonna be shitty because that's how the human brain works. And so how do we make the other 50% as good as possible?

[A]

I think about that and not finding a problem with rain.

[B]

Yeah. Like not saying it's a bad thing to have hard stuff and like go through hard times. Yeah, yeah, I agree.

[A]

So let me ask my, let me ask my second question. If you could have asked Tony a follow up question, what would it have been?

[B]

Oh, shit, I didn't think about that.

[A]

Ah, see, I'm off the cuff. You know, I had questions. You didn't expect shift.

[B]

I have an internal conflict which is like, you know, as you know, which is like I have this side of me that's like super obsessive and goal oriented and I feel like, and not just goal oriented for the sake of achieving goals, but like I, I didn't, I like helping people and like I, I do feel the impact and I like watching somebody succeed in the company and coaching somebody and seeing somebody like, become a great leader. And seeing all these people like, that is super rewarding for me. And I get super obsessive about it, and I forget about literally everything else, including myself, my body, relationships, et cetera, which, you know, and that's fairly easy for me to do, and it also is really rewarding. And then there's the other side of me that's like, I have these other goals that I have in life, but they don't seem like they serve a greater good and they don't help anybody but me, and they will detract from this one. And I think sometimes, you know, it's like I'm. I've shifted of, like, okay, I'm going to a season where, like, I'm still stewarding the company and we're doing these things, but I also have these personal things that are going to detract from this. This goal. And I don't know how to word this question, but it's almost like reconciling. What is a better use of your life, right? Yeah.

[A]

It's like, literally conflicting priorities. Like, it's very easy to continue down a path if you have aligned priorities. Right. If you, like, you can make an argument that working out and eating healthy is going to help you in business because you'll have more energy and you'll be in less pain, blah, blah, blah. Right. But it's when the. When achieving the big thing comes at a price of something else, that then you're like, wait, I also want this other thing. Where do I make the trade? And what trade is perfect? And I just don't think there is actually an answer.

[B]

I don't either. And I think I want someone to give me one because it feels like this, like, two lives that I see. And I'm like, I don't want, like, I think I want a mix. But it's like, okay, well, what does. It's just like I'm in a transition phase for sure. So I think it's. I would want help managing that, which I would probably take a lot of time to think about how I would ask the question, because I'm not really sure.

[A]

So I think I saw some of the comments as well, which is like, so. So now what? Like, so what are you going to do now? Or what are we going to do now? Because I see us in the same boat together. I feel like I could actually consolidate my. Like, if I had to take the whole interview and say, like, what were the boiled down? Like, what. What was it I consolidated it to? I have Everything you want. I have the money, I have the impact, I have happiness. You don't have what you want. And so I am a trusted resource to helping you get it. And so that creates the initial motivating, like, why I should listen. And then the instructions of how to unlock unlimited power, unleash the giant within, was think about something that you've had an emotional tie to in your past that you want to help other people who had that same experience that's very big, and allow that thing to orient your behavior going forward so that when you take action from here on out, it's in alignment with that big thing which lights you up, even if the minutiae of what you're doing in the moment might not be, you know, sunshine and rainbows.

[B]

So technically, what does the next year look like for you, Mr. Al?

[A]

I think the actual plans that we have right now to achieve that, and maybe it means we need to make the goal bigger. Like, you and I have had a lot of conversations about this since the. Since. Since Tony and I talked. And I think the thing is, it's like, it's not just the goal. It's like, there has to be stakes. Yeah, there has to be stakes.

[B]

You have to create the stakes, right?

[A]

Because, like, if I said, like, yeah, it's like, there have to be, like, there has to be stakes. Like, I don't know how to. Like, for me, and I'm sure that's part of his thing and we only had 60 minutes or whatever, but, like, that's what kind of, like, makes it real for me, like. Or what? Because if you say, like, I want to help a billion people, then he's like, oh, like, you can break down. But even, even then, it's like, school already has a few hundred thousand users as is, and they're all marching towards that 100,000 goal. The amount of content that we put out. We have 22 million people who follow our stuff, not including the ones who haven't literally hit the button to subscribe. And so do I think that point something, something percent of them, Right? So it's like, I could make a pretty logical argument. I think that we might have already made that impact. It's just like, do I need a way to measure it? Which is a part. That's a thing. But I think he told the story about him with going in, like, the. The sex trafficking trenches and trying to, like, negotiate with the human traffickers or whatever. And that was where he said, like, if you help a million people, you don't feel It. But if you help one, like, you do feel it, which in some way felt like there's some conflict or something that has to get reconciled between the big goal and like, the feeling of the impact which comes from the one person.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I think I get that. Yeah.

[B]

Because I think about, like, people here that, like, I'm working, I'm helping develop as leaders. Coaching.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's so much more rewarding to see their behavior change than, like, I get thousands of messages that are like, here's how you help me. But I don't feel it, but I feel it with the people here.

[A]

From a. From a business behavior perspective, there's probably one large thing that we will do that will change, which, you know, we've talked about, and people will find out soon enough that we made big moves there. But the orientation of our entire lives I don't think will change. Because this, this are the way we live our lives now is because we read Conscious Capitalism and we thought about this during the year that we took off after we sold the company, the first, you know, the first big sale. And we're like, what do we want our lives to be about? And it was all about, like, how do we do? How do we. How do we contribute? How do we grow? And that's what the, you know, the thesis of acquisition.com was, to make business education successful for everyone. Because that was something that we had both, you know, benefited from. And so in a lot of ways, like, we have built the business to create impact. What I feel like I have lost or I've been deficient in has been. I need to. I need to purposely create. Yeah, I need to purposely create emotional associations and ties to the smaller components of it.

[B]

I have some really good ideas for how we'll do that in the next couple years, too.

[A]

So I think that's like, like what will change as a result of this, this podcast. There's one big business move we'll do, and then I think it's going to be injecting feedback loops to quantify the outcomes and to emotionalify the. The outcomes.

[B]

That's fair. Anything, personally.

[A]

I mean, those. I mean. What do you mean?

[B]

I don't know, like, outside of business that you would change.

[A]

What else is there?

[B]

You are. Have so many things outside of business that. Well, specifically gyms and working out what you're obsessed with. But your second. He cheats on me with his, like, little. Is it like the gym dealers at night? He's always looking at gym equipment late at night. I'm Just like, what are you looking at? He's like, this new squat rack that came out from whatever line.

[A]

I'm like, look at this feature. Look how sick this is.

[B]

And he's like, dude, look at this pulley.

[A]

Look at the bearings on this thing.

[B]

Yeah, look at this rip, dude, look at that, babe. Look at that.

[A]

Like, literally at night, I have my good day formula, which is on my wall, which I live by, which is like, eat food with people I like, work out with people I like, and write something. And I try to live by that for the most part. And that's been like. That's the stuff I get a lot of joy from. But those are all inputs, not outputs. And I think he was talking about the output, the impact.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I think it's just like, there's right now, okay, here's the easiest visual. Right now, our life is pure throughput. It's like we put tons of energy here and then there's impact and money that comes out the other side. And I think what we're talking about is like, how do we draw a line or a loop that brings part of that back to the front again to speed the cycle up, rather than like. I think that's probably the difference quote push, where it's just purely driving from whatever force you have to this outcome. And until you let the outcome itself become reinforcing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right now, the outcome itself is not emotionally reinforcing.

[B]

I get that. And I think it gets harder as business gets bigger. You have to intentionally create those things. Yeah. What do you think about the comment he made about having kids?

[A]

What do you think about the comment that you had about having kids?

[B]

It's not fair.

[A]

Uno, reverse.

[B]

Well, I mean, honestly, listen to it. I was like. I mean, I've shared publicly. I don't know if actually, no, I don't think I should. It's publicly. We did IVF a year and a half ago, two years ago, like a little over a year and a half ago. And it did not work for whatever reasons. And then after that, I had a lot of issues. Like, it just didn't.

[A]

There she came from, though.

[B]

That came from it. And then about literally the week that I was supposed to start the next round with a different doctor and a different whatever was when I got really sick. And then that led to all my issues last year, and then I had to get surgery and yada yada, yada, and I'm still, you know, not back to normal. So, like, when he said that, I was like, I could tell you the whole story, but it'll take like an hour. It was interesting for me because, like, I think, you know, people ask us a lot. And so I kind of wanted to just like address it because I think for me at least, you know, it's. They're all address this. No, we don't have problems having children. Like, we have not. We had not tried up until a point. And then I said, I think it makes sense if we like, we have the resources and such, we can like have a surrogate if we want, or I can have them myself. And then we wanted to have the option.

[A]

Well, you also had like, your mom had hip issues and there's like G angles.

[B]

Yeah, it's all that stuff. And then because of the issues that I had, it was like, okay, well, it's a little bit more of like a high risk thing. So we wanted to have the option because I was like, okay, what if I have one? It's absolutely terrible. And then we want to have more. We could get a surrogate. So that's why we that. But I think it's interesting because it's one of those things where, like, I think people make a lot of assumptions. They're like, why don't you just. It is absolutely like a conversation that we're having. It's something that, like, my team knows that that's a goal of mine over the next year. But that's not really something I feel like sharing with people all the time on the Internet. But then because people.

[A]

But they're so nice.

[B]

Yeah, they'll just tell me it's from the steroids or the fact that I'm a fucking dude so I can rumors on Reddit. So I think that was interesting one because I was like, oh, I haven't talked about that. And I think it's just because, like, it's not a straightforward thing. And I think it's interesting because it's like one of those things that people ask us a lot. I was like, that's not a straightforward thing to say. Oh, yes or no? Oh, yeah, I should get to that. Or like, it is an ongoing conversation. I think there's a lot of people that we know that we're friends with that have very intricate conversations that don't share about those things publicly. And so I kind of wanted to say something publicly about it because I think in general, you know, thinking about it, I mean, I've shared with you, like, and I think we've talked about, like, it. I think that there was a narrative as I was you know, when I was 20 or whatever, that was like, just wait to have kids. Like, get your career in order, do all these things, et cetera. And honestly, I'm not sure the trade was worth it, because I think it would be easier, physiologically speaking, or. Or physically speaking, to have had children when I was younger. And now I waited. I had more health stuff happen, which makes it harder to have children, which then sucks. And I grew up with people telling me and honestly telling both of us, like, you guys should wait until you're 35 or whatever, like, it'll be fine. But I have lots of friends that are that age, and it's difficult on them, difficult on their bodies, difficult to have a successful pregnancy. And I think a lot of people look up. You know, women look up to me, and then they ask me these things, and it's like, I don't have a great answer, because I don't. I'm not sure I would do it the same way again. Because people like, do you want kids? I do want kids. I'm also scared that I'm not gonna be able to have them or that something will happen because of all this stuff and that I'm not going to be able to. And then I'm gonna be really excited for something, and it's not gonna happen. That's gonna suck.

[A]

And so then. Because everything that you say in content is going to get multiplied a million times over

[B]

you.

[A]

It's like. It's a. It's a thing that you have to want with an open hand, because it's like, you can't say, like, I really, really, really want to want to have kids. And then it doesn't happen. And you set yourself up for the. Just massive letdown.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And to the same degree, you can't be like, screw kids. We don't want to have kids. Because then, of course, everyone will just attack you because you're against humanity.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so there's really complicated. Yeah. So there. There's no actual response. I had someone ask me this a few months back. They're like, why don't you have children? And the response that I.

[B]

Tell me why.

[A]

Right. You know, literally I said, the response that I gave the individual was, I do not have children. And there.

[B]

Oh, I remember that.

[A]

Right. I was like. I was like, well, pick the angle. I was like, play it out. I was like, so let's say one of us or both of us has an issue. I was like, is either one of us going to expose our partner as the. The reason something can't happen. No, of course not. I mean, what kind of. What kind of spouse would you be, right? So it's like, you can't have that. And so you also can't say, like, oh, kids suck. That. Then they have that whole problem. And so all you have is. I mean, I guess you could say, like, we're trying. You could say that. But then it's like, you'll get like, where are the kids? Where are the kids? Where are the kids? You'll get those comments forever.

[B]

Let me hook you up with this.

[A]

Yeah. Did you have lemon? Yeah, lemon juice? Cayenne.

[B]

Stop working out. It's your nervous system. Like, everything from Sudway. I mean, I know I've had people send me fertility doctors. I'm like, I. This is not. I don't need this.

[A]

Right? And so all. All that I've just been able to come back to say is just like, it is true that you have. Have observed that we do not have children. Like, I don't know what else to say. We are both open to children entering our lives. We do not have them right now. And if they do not come, our lives will be great. And if they come, our lives will also be great.

[B]

Great. Yeah.

[A]

That's all we got. I mean, like, it's not actually under your control.

[B]

I know, which sucks. I mean, I made. I don't know if you remember, I vlogged my entire IVF process, and I was like, selfie style. They were in there. You remember when I went in for surgery, like, the whole thing, and I was gonna release it once. We were like, hey, and this is like, look, we have little baby hormozies. And then nothing. And I was fucking devastated. And then I was like, I don't even want to release the vlog because I was so upset. And then after that, I, you know, had a lot of issues from it because, you know, you find out there's. There's good doctors and there's bad doctors, and there's good ways to do it and bad ways to do it and whatever. And so it's interesting. Like, I was totally gonna be open about it, but then I was like, well, that's depressing. What am I gonna do? Post this vlog and be like, yeah, did it didn't work? You guys should not try this. Like. Like. Like, no, hope. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, I don't want people to lose that dream and to not try because. Doesn't mean I'm not going to keep trying. I just. You Know, have to wait until I'm in a space where my body can. Can do that, which is soon. But yeah, it was interesting on the. The kids remark because it is one of those things where it's like, there's. It's just. I think a lot of people struggle with how to answer that question and because it's not straightforward. So, I mean, I think your answer is a good one.

[A]

But yeah, Ed, for the comments on the Internet, it's like, notice she said this was two years ago. And so every single person who's asked and blamed us and taken shots at us, it's like, bro, just live your life.

[B]

I know, but I. I mean, I do think. I mean, like, I. I mean, I've said, like, I think that there is an entire narrative that my generation was under. It's really tough, which is like, you can wait to have children. And I tell everybody now that I know, please freeze your eggs or just like.

[A]

Or just have kids, whatever, and deal with it.

[B]

Listen, I go for the lowest ask. Okay. I'm like, listen, just freeze the mix, because it will just be easier when you are older. When. When. And if you change your mind. Yeah. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting or not wanting them, by the way.

[A]

Yeah, do whatever you want.

[B]

Like, people should do whatever the they want. But I think it's interesting when people make the assumption that you don't want them or don't try because you don't have to them.

[A]

I also find it kind of interesting with when someone's like, you should have children. It's like, let's. Let's whitewash this for a second. I'm not saying this is us, but I'm saying, like, when people say that to anyone. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Imagine a kid who had a parent who didn't want to have them. Would we want that for the kid? Probably not. And so it's like, we wish this thing because it satisfies like, they. They have their own thing that they're. They're wishing for.

[B]

They're being a good person.

[A]

Yeah. It's like, it's. It's about. It has nothing to do with.

[B]

I'm also like, for all of you that comment on that, like, that does not help people. Like, if you tell people, like, you should have kids, like, they don't want to have them anymore. Because Jared from Minnesota with a pickle jar as his profile said, you should have kids, bitch.

[A]

Like, oh, no. You know what? You did bring Jared's profile up, and I was like, you Know, he. He raises an excellent point.

[B]

Pickle. Jared had a good point there.

[A]

I hope so many.

[B]

James, go back in the kitchen, have some kids. And I was like, you know what? I should get back. So right in the kitchen and pop some fucking kids out.

[A]

So, yeah, that's the tldr of like, you should have kids. I mean, I would say we agree. Yeah, we've. We've been on. We're on the road, you know, we're on the road and we accept whatever. Whatever comes from that road.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's one of those things, like, at least it's taught me the last two years has taught me that there are things you can control and then there are things you cannot control. You can create the conditions for success. You cannot decide if success occurs.

[A]

Yeah. And I think it's been really good for us just defining the success by inputs again. It's like, are you doing the, you know, the exercises you need to do? Are you doing the, you know, all the health stuff you need to do? It's like, did I do it? Yes or no? Yep, I'm doing it. And to the best of my ability, to the best of the doctors that I have access to. This is what I know. And, you know, to be fair, we're super fortunate because, like, there's tons of people who are having the same issue, but, like, don't have the resources. And it's been confusing as hell for us in the process, and that's with all the resources that we have.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I see. I see it all the time and people message me about it, so I don't know. But yeah, that was what I thought about that piece. I was like, I just wanted to. I'd like to have a piece of content to just post and, you know, maybe 50,000 people see this and then the rest of the forget and opposite again.

[A]

But any follows from you guys, the moonshot goals that you put out there? Yeah, like, do you have a timeline for that? I think it was 36 months is what we said in the, in the podcast. And maybe I need to make it a bigger goal because, like, I think there's two things that are missing from the goal. So realistically, I think it will already be achieved in 36 months. So either, I guess, three things. So either it needs to be bigger,

[B]

but are you going to be able to measure it?

[A]

Right. So there's like. So one has to be. I think we have to be able to measure it in some way. And that is something that I'm actively Thinking about the second is there needs to be some. We have to manufacture, create the conditions that there is an emotional association on the micro level with that outcome. Right. Like, physics wise, I can't meet 100,000 guys. Like, if I. If I were to. If I spent a minute every. It wouldn't. It wouldn't work. Right. So it's like you have to just pull it down to say, okay, I'm going to follow 5 people, 10 people, and through that narrative so that I can extrapolate it out. Right.

[B]

I have ideas.

[A]

So that's. So it has to be measurable. We have to create the emotional tie. And maybe if we do those two things that already took care of itself and then I think adding in the stakes piece somehow, like, once we can measure it, then the emotional tie will both come from the stakes and the micro piece, because the book launch felt like it had tremendous stakes. You said this, but I am my happiest when I'm in the hunt. And so that's where, again, some of the grindset mindset stuff, maybe.

[B]

I hate that word.

[A]

I know. I do too. I know. But some of the more hardcore accept suffering, continue to do boring work even when you don't want to. Some of that stuff is. I think it comes from early on in my career doing things that I. I wasn't as enjoying of. And like, the things I work harder now. I think I work harder now than I think I did earlier on in my career.

[B]

Yeah, but you work really hard on things that are exciting to you too. Like, okay, let's just be honest.

[A]

Yes. I do not do things I don't want to.

[B]

Alex does not do things he doesn't want to do. And he does not work on things that he does not like working on. Like, you are. Like, it'll just burn.

[A]

Yeah, it will burn.

[B]

It will burn. Be forgotten about. Atrophy.

[A]

Someone. Someone will figure it out. Someone will figure that out.

[B]

Like, so it's interesting because, like, it's the grind set, but, like, you choose things that you think are worth. Like, I want to do this. Yeah. Versus, like, I have to. Like, I've got a. You know what I mean? Like, I think it's a little different. Like, you've been able to find things that you enjoy. You find the work stimulating, intellectual. It's challenging. It gives you skills that you.

[A]

Writing books is, like, Is the most fun I have. It's also incredibly hard to do it well.

[B]

And so it's interesting because I think that's a good, like, takeaway for Some people who might not think that, like, you are very selective about what you grind on. And with that, anything else.

[A]

Shy fuck Happiness.

[B]

Two books of brain part.

[A]

Mm. After the whole conversation, did it reprint

[B]

that in your mind?

[A]

Are you still. I think it actually. It comes down to defining terms. So as soon as he said it, he said he basically redefined suffering in a different way than. Or at least redefined passion in a different way than. Than. Than I probably would. He also said a lot of things aren't what you want right after he said that too. So, like, I think there's the headline and there's sub headlines. I would say my goal has never been to suffer. My goal has been to make something that was big enough that the suffering that I would be forced to endure would be worth it. Basically, because I've just always seen suffering as a fixed cost of life. Not that all of life must be suffering, but that suffering will be a part of it.

[B]

So I think that the difference is because he defines suffering.

[A]

I'm pretty sure, yeah, he is. Pain versus, again, this is where. Not semantic, but why. This is why defining words is. Is like what I spend so much time on.

[B]

I think it is widely recognized that suffering is usually defined as the narrative around the pain. Sure. And so for most people, when they think suffering, it's like elective. Pain versus pain is. It was.

[A]

It's first arrow, second arrow.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it is. It's the consequence of. It's the cost.

[A]

The judgment on the pain.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Suffering is the judgment, if that's how you want to define it. For anyone who's listening, I see pain as a fact of life. And so I want to pick goals that pain will not dissuade me from pursuing. And like, I really think about, like, the guy storming Normandy who's, you know, on the beach trying to protect freedom and his family. He for sure is going through pain. And he does it with a smile on his face because he knows it's worth it. And I don't see that that as in any way a life not well lived or not done purposefully. And so that's why for me, like, I minimize a lot of the inconveniences that I'll say that I experience because I believe what we are trying to accomplish is worth it. It's worth that pain. I also know that when I'm not pursuing things, I'm also in pain. It's just different pain. And so it's like, if I'm going

[B]

to have pain, what lame pain?

[A]

It's lame pain. And so if I. That's really good. And so if I'm going to experience pain either way, I'd rather have the

[B]

pain be worth is interesting because, like, I think that in order to have, like, life is like this. And it's like, when you're unwilling to feel pain, you're also probably unwilling to

[A]

feel, like, numb yourself.

[B]

You mean accomplishment, et cetera. Correct. And I also think, like, pain is the cost of success to a degree, because pain is usually learning. And it's like, you have to learn and try again and get feedback in order to succeed. And so I think pain is definitely the cost versus, like, suffering. I think if we define it as we just did, it's like the narrative around. It's like, that's definitely something you can control, which I feel like I learned a lot of this year. Like, I mean, literally, physical pain. And then what is my narrative around the physical pain? Like, I have had a lot of physical pain in the last 12 months. And it's like. But what do I tell myself about it? Like, I'm in pain right now. And I'm like, I just. I literally, it's. It's. It's almost like I've gotten to the point where it's like, I. Especially in the last couple of weeks, I've been able to, like, it's like background noise. It's okay, you know, it's.

[A]

It is funny because, like, the fact that you just brought this up so, like, this is just like, how little people have an understanding of, like, everything. But, like, you putting your feet up on my leg. Right. I see this as cute and endearing. I also know that you have physical pain. And so you changing up your leg position makes us be able to have this conversation longer. The audience has no idea of that. And so there's gonna be six comments of dudes, be like, layla's doing a power move. Or, you know, like. Or, like, isn't it weird that she has her feet up or, like, her socks? Like, just dumb. You know what I mean? And so it's like, I cannot wish for people to have unlimited context in a world that offers none. But I accept that it is. What?

[B]

No, it's just sweet.

[A]

I love you, sweetie, but, yeah, it's just like, this is not a power move. I know, I know. Like, of course. No, but it's just like, yeah, it's life.

[B]

Yeah, everyone. I mean, I was telling the team earlier this, but I was like, dude, everybody poops. Like, everybody goes through shit in life. Everybody is human. We all read on the inside. Like, we all have our shit. Money and success and fame don't change that.

[A]

No. But there are actions that you can take that increase the likelihood that the other things occur. Now you're like, okay, I'm not putting my feet up there. Did you have any other ones?

[B]

Yeah, a few.

[A]

Yeah. There was one man podcast where Tony talks about the two characters. Yeah. Analytical Alex and Anabolic Alex.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

So do you actually. People love that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you actually experience that split? And this is a question.

[B]

Of course. But you're barely ever Analytical Alex with me, unless we're in the work setting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then sometimes I'll text you, be like, stop being so scary.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I always say it. I'm like, stop. Stop yelling.

[A]

Don't yell at me.

[B]

Yeah. He's like, I'm not yelling. I'm like, I don't like this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think we're both actually very good at kind of state changes, like, when we get home. I think we're very good at, like, kind of switching back quickly. You also change almost as soon as you get back. And I feel like when you do that, you kind of, like, switch into, like, wife mode. Yeah, I never change, but, you know, ever. But no, I think we both have, like, little triggers that we can do. But it's like, also, it's like, you know, I don't, like, in some ways,

[B]

try and get rid of analytics. Right.

[A]

Of course. And also, like, I don't like my. Who I am to you is not for everyone, you know? Yeah. Like, it's. That's. That's us.

[B]

It's not like I act like I do towards you at home alone, or at least there in front of other people.

[A]

Of course not.

[B]

They would never take me seriously.

[A]

No. Right. Because it's like, I think when you're. When you're in your own private space or whatever, it's like, you can be more playful. But, like, if your boss was, like, playful, I'd be like, this. Is this guy serious? Like, yeah, of course there's. There's elements. There's no. On either degree. Like, it's. It's a balance. Right. Of having enough. Enough edge. And it's. I don't think it's a dichotomy that you manage. I don't think it's a problem to solve. Like. Like. And Tony. Tony brought this up. He was like, you can't run your business without Analytical Alex. Right. You can't run it without making logical decisions. If the person's not going to work out the rule. You got to let them know, like, it is what it is. You can't let every other person on the team suffer as a result of somebody else's being. And then the culture suffers a result because you're not holding the bar right to the same degree. If you do that all the time, people are not going to aspire to work for that person because they're like, this guy's a fucking robot. Now some people might be inspired to work for a buck. They're like, we're going to win. And I think there's elements that. But like having those little, those little slices that kind of peek in and out. But I think it's 80, 20 and it flips. Like, when we're at home, it's 80, 20 this way. When we're in the workplace, it's 80, 20 that way. Look. And for me, when I'm in the gym, I am quite literally anabolic Alex. Which is actually what made like when he asked that, I was thinking, when am I in the best mood? And so me and the best mood is when I'm in the gym. So, like, all the guys who have ever lifted in ACQ gym know that, like, when I'm there, there's a. There's a video of me doing a gym gym walkthrough with Kook. And the comments are like, I've never seen Alex. I was like, yeah, because this is like, that's not what the setting that you see me in. Because I mean, I got into fitness for a reason. Like, I was. I followed my passion. I did what everyone told me to do. But then as soon as I got into it, I realized that this has nothing to with the thing that I supposedly love. And so that's why I adopted a different worldview, which was that, oh, a lot of this will be painful. If we want to use pain rather than suffering, a lot of this will be painful. Is it still worth pursuing? And to me, the answer was yes. And so, okay, then I have to just take this as a cost and that's okay. And I think that was like, if I had one, if I had one thing that I would, that I could communicate to all the people who are like, in pursuit is that, like, it will be painful. It will be more painful than you expect. And that's okay.

[B]

I would add one thing. You can handle it.

[A]

You can handle it. You got it.

[B]

You can handle it. I tell myself that, like, this year, especially, like, with so much physical pain, like, I was just like, this is going to suck. And I was like, and you can handle it.

[A]

It handle it.

[B]

If anybody can handle it, you can handle it.

[A]

One of my lifting partners, big bodybuilder, he asked me because sometimes people during their reps and it's like, it's hard or whatever, they're like, you know, root me on, or like, you know, say, like, come on or two more or whatever, you know, you cheer the person on a little bit. He said, hey, when. When I start to look like I'm struggling, just yell at me, you're fine. And that was his thing. And so I always, like, I'd wait until. I'd be like, you're fine, you're fine, you're fine. And he's like, I'm fine. And he's doing these reps. But it's like, it's. To your point, it's like, you got it. You'll be all right.

[B]

Sometimes you just need someone to tell you that. I think we were talking yesterday, I was like, I just need you to tell me it's okay. Sometimes we just need reassurance.

[A]

I think more times than we need instruction.

[B]

Yeah, Encouragement.

[A]

I mean, even if you think about the whole thing, the whole metal. The meta conversation with Tony was. Was reassurance. Like, it's not like my path in life is going, I'm not going to stop doing business stuff. I'm not going to stop making business education. We're not going to stop helping businesses. Like, none of that's going to change. But I think a lot of what I was looking for is, like, reassurance that this is the one correct path. And I asked like, is there something that you would do differently that I'm doing? And he was like, I think you haven't prioritized enjoyment. And I think for sure there's a.

[B]

There's.

[A]

It's a. It's a problem to manage. Right? There's no. There's no. Like, this is the perfect ratio. It'll depend on the season, it'll depend on the context. But I think that was just a great us coming away with the. We have to be able to measure it. We have to have a feedback loop that creates some sort of emotionality and we need. And we added in. And I'm sure he talks about this just when we were having our discussion. Like, we need some sort of stakes. Was there any prep that you did? I think it's a question for me. I think Layla was part of the reason the podcast was so good was because, like, before she went in or. Before I went in, we talked, and she was like, I think, like, I think when I said I had these two options for what podcast to do, she definitely leaned into, like, you're gonna have an hour, an hour and a half with Tony. Like, just ask him what you want to ask him. And I think I was.

[B]

I also. I watched every podcast that he did with anybody else, and just seeing what he was interested in talking about, and I felt like what I noticed and what. Why I think he is who he is, is that he is most engaged when he's helping somebody. He feels useful rather than, like, you know, I think some podcasts are just asking him questions to get clips. And I think that is almost a disservice to him.

[A]

Right. Because he's just got. Yeah, he's just so good at what he does.

[B]

He's so good. And I think my thought was, like, if this could actually be a genuinely, like, raw conversation, I think it. It's great for both of you. And since, you know, I've stalked him since I was, you know, 12 years old and known you for a decade, I felt like I could, you know,

[A]

accurately weigh both parties.

[B]

Both parties, yeah.

[A]

So kind of following that, Alex, you mentioned at the start you were down five words for the podcast. Yeah. So all of the words. And why did you name those five? Oh, so I had. I think I had 10 or 11 questions. And then in reviewing it, I thought to myself, like, I'm not actually going to, like, pull my phone out and read these questions. Like, totally would break the flow. So then I thought, all right, well, how can I remember this while I'm, you know, having this conversation? And so the five words were. And I'm doing this from memory, but basically, duty was one of them. Fulfillment, impact, opportunity. There was another one, but those are, like, the. Some of the ones that I really wanted to understand. Like, how we solve the dichotomy between these things. How do you see what you feel obligated? And I see this is in a positive way, not a negative way. Like, what do I feel driven to do for the impact it's going to make? That's my obligation. Like, to whom much is. It was funny because he's my favorite verse in the whole Bible. Like, to whom much is given, much as expected. And, like, I see that if I had a proverb for my life, that would have been it. Like, I feel I've been given a lot, and so I want to be a good steward of that, and so I see that as duty. He does not like the word. But I'm very. I'm super strong. This is why I define terms so much, because, like, unless both parties agree ahead of time, this is why all legal contracts begin with a recital of terms and definitions. Otherwise, no one knows what they're talking about either way. Yes. So, anyways, those are the. Those are the words that I was most interested. Like, how do you go through opportunity selection? How do you balance the opportunities against impact versus, like, return on investment from a financial perspective, duty and fulfillment. And so those were kind of the elements that I. That I was. I was most curious because I feel like if I could answer that question or at least get clarity around it, which I did, which is like, we need emotional ties, we need stakes, we need to be able to measure it. That's like. That's my big thing. Well, I'll tell you what I got from some of the coaching stuff that he said, which was a couple pre frames for, like, anybody who has, like, an ego.

[B]

Do you have an ego?

[A]

Yeah, for sure. He was like, hey, this is my $0.02, and that's all it's worth. And then he gave his thing. I can't teach you shit. He's like, but I can't offer you. He said just a handful of framings that were like that to just kind of, like, soften the blow of more kind of direct feedback.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he. And he was checking back like, hey, I'm not trying. I was like. I mean, I was like, I'm here to learn, man. And I think a lot of people. I think one frame that probably surprised people because I saw that in the comments was they were like, oh, I've never seen Alex be a student. It's like, bro, how do you think I've learned everything?

[B]

I think I learned well. I also think it's like, you can't. You don't need to just learn from Tony Robbins. We learn from plenty of people.

[A]

Everyone who. Anyone who wants to teach. I'm here.

[B]

Yeah. 100.

[A]

And it's also like, just because you learn from someone doesn't mean you need to take everything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, not everything is the right lesson for you right now.

[B]

I think that's actually a really interesting one with, like, when I see people talk about in my content, like, well, I don't agree with, like, how she runs her marriage or something. And I'm like, I'm not. Then. Then fuck me. I don't know. I don't care. Tell me the off. Like, don't. Don't watch it. Like, what do we mean, like? I am not here to try and get you to be me. I'm trying to teach you certain things that I am good at. Like, you can throw away the rest. I don't have them figured out. Yeah.

[A]

This is a documentary, not a pulpit. Like, we are not preaching. This is the way that we want to live. Like that you should live your life. We say this is how we have lived our lives and this has worked for us. Use if useful, Sam.