Becoming a Professional Gamer at 13 | A Conversation w/ Mongraal

Summary

The GaryVee Audio Experience Episode: Becoming a Professional Gamer at 13 | A Conversation w/ Mongraal Release Date: December 10, 2024

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of The GaryVee Audio Experience, entrepreneur and host Gary Vaynerchuk sits down with one of the most iconic figures in the esports and gaming community, Mongraal. The conversation delves deep into Mongraal's inspiring journey from quitting school at the tender age of 13 to becoming a professional Fortnite player, his experiences with major tournaments, the challenges of balancing youth with professional gaming, and his insights into the ever-evolving gaming industry.

Mongraal’s Journey to Professional Gaming

Mongraal, whose real name isn't disclosed in the transcript, began his foray into Fortnite at the age of 13. Over seven years, he honed his skills, which eventually led him to take a significant risk:

[01:24] B: "That was a big risk, like huge risk."

At 13, Mongraal made the bold decision to quit school to pursue gaming full-time. This leap led him to sign with Team Secret, marking his entry into the professional esports arena.

Convincing Parents and Family Dynamics

One of the most compelling parts of Mongraal's story is how he navigated familial concerns:

[03:14] B: "I remember, like, it took months and months for it to get to the point where I could quit school."

Initially, his parents were hesitant about his decision to pursue gaming professionally. The turning point came when Mongraal secured a contract with a salary exceeding $10,000 annually and participated in the prestigious World Cup, enhancing his credibility and demonstrating the viability of a career in esports. This success not only validated his passion but also alleviated his parents' concerns.

Building a Streaming Career

Beyond competitive gaming, Mongraal ventured into streaming on Twitch. He emphasized the importance of being exceptionally good at his craft:

[05:38] B: "If you're the best player, people will watch you regardless of anything."

Mongraal's philosophy mirrors that of traditional influencers, where excellence in one's field naturally attracts an audience. Unlike many streamers who rely on charisma or entertainment value, his focus was purely on skill, which resonated with viewers and helped him build a substantial following.

Burnout and Taking a Break

Despite his success, Mongraal faced burnout after several intense years of gaming:

[08:09] B: "I was just doing it too much for too long and I wanted to experience life like I was at that age where like, I want to go out, I want to see stuff."

Recognizing the toll that constant gaming was taking on his mental and emotional well-being, Mongraal decided to take a two-year break. During this hiatus, he traveled solo to countries like Japan, Singapore, Greece, and Spain, seeking personal growth and a fresh perspective away from the competitive pressures of esports.

The Comeback

Mongraal's return to the gaming scene was both strategic and serendipitous. His hiatus coincided with Fortnite's OG Season, which reintroduced some of the game's classic elements, creating a perfect environment for his resurgence:

[13:21] B: "It was perfect. That's exactly what I needed. And then from there and I haven't stopped."

Upon his return, Mongraal resumed streaming, dedicating up to 10 hours a day. The alignment with Fortnite's new chapter amplified his comeback, leading to renewed popularity and success within the community.

Diversifying: Dookie Dash and NFTs

Expanding his portfolio, Mongraal engaged with Dookie Dash, an NFT-based game that blended gaming with blockchain technology. The game centered around collecting keys tied to Bored Ape NFTs:

[15:55] B: "The winning prize was a key. An NFT."

Mongraal not only played the game extensively but also secured a key, which he later sold to Adit Weisman for $1.6 million, showcasing his ability to leverage gaming success into substantial financial gains beyond traditional streams.

Advice for Aspiring Gamers

Mongraal offers valuable insights for those looking to make a mark in the gaming industry:

[18:00] B: "Anything you put your mind to, you can do. ... Everything is in the mind."

He emphasizes the power of mindset, dedication, and the belief that with enough effort, one can achieve success in any chosen field. His journey serves as a testament to the importance of perseverance and self-belief.

Insights on the Gaming Industry

Discussing the current state and future of gaming, Mongraal shares his predictions:

[19:57] B: "Fortnite's going to have kind of like its second prime ... GTA 6 is gonna be one of the biggest things coming out."

He anticipates Fortnite regaining its prominence and eagerly awaits the release of GTA 6, expecting it to set new standards in the gaming world. Mongraal also touches upon the evolving landscape of streaming platforms, noting the rise of multi-streaming across platforms like Twitch, YouTube, and TikTok.

Intergenerational Perspectives

As someone who broke into professional gaming at a young age, Mongraal finds joy in mentoring the next generation:

[22:43] B: "It's actually really fun because I see myself in a lot of the upcoming pros, so I actually have a chance to give some advice that I wish I had back then."

He actively engages with younger gamers, offering guidance and support, which not only helps them navigate the challenges of the industry but also provides him with a sense of fulfillment.

Future Plans and Personal Growth

Looking ahead, Mongraal expresses a desire to remain within the gaming sphere while also exploring entrepreneurial ventures:

[24:13] B: "I've got some, some cool, cool ideas I want to do and try. If I fail, I fail, but I just want to try them and see how they work out."

His focus remains on accumulating life experiences and wisdom, ensuring he remains adaptable and continues to grow both personally and professionally.

Final Thoughts and Key Takeaways

As the conversation wraps up, both Gary and Mongraal underscore the significance of perspective and self-belief:

[25:05] B: "I really do believe everything is in the mind, like, and you can actually achieve anything you want to do as long as you believe it and you, you do your best at it."

Gary adds:

[25:24] A: "It's fucking perspective. Like, if you decide life is good, it's good. And if you decide life is bad, it's bad."

This closing sentiment highlights the overarching theme of the episode: the transformative power of mindset in achieving one's goals and maintaining mental well-being.

Conclusion

Mongraal's journey from a young gamer passionate about Fortnite to a professional esports figure and successful streamer offers invaluable lessons on risk-taking, perseverance, mental health, and the evolving dynamics of the gaming industry. His story serves as inspiration for aspiring gamers, entrepreneurs, and anyone striving to turn their passion into a sustainable and fulfilling career.

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Connect with Mongraal: Find Mongraal across all social and streaming platforms using the handle Mongraal.

Transcript

[A]

This is the GaryVee audio experience. VaynerNation. How are you? Very exciting podcast today, especially for a lot of you that are into Fortnite and gaming and streaming or have kids in it. We have one of the icons. But more importantly, the reason I'm excited to have him here is I think he's living a very thoughtful journey as a young man and I think it could help a lot of you. And so the iconic mongrel is with us today. Brother, how are you?

[B]

I'm good, man. I've never been bo.

[A]

That's actually what I want to get into and why I wanted to do this podcast. But before we get into that sentence and how, I think it affects not just people that are going to make content on social or try to be Internet famous or a gamer or public figure, but even all the people that are just trying to achieve or stay afloat. We'll get into that part, but before we do, I want to give you two to three minutes just to let everybody know who you are and what you do and just to set the tone. And now go into my questions.

[B]

So I've been playing Fortnite for total of like seven years, but I took a two year break. We'll probably get into that a bit. So, yeah, seven years since I was 13. I quit school, I started playing Fortnite full time, then signed to a team. Team Secret. That was my first contract. And then obviously the side stuff, I've done a bit of crypto, you know that as well, the Dookie dash stuff, that was pretty big. That was during my break. Yep, that was, that was crazy. I had so much fun.

[A]

So at 13 you quit school and become a professional gamer.

[B]

That was big risk, like huge risk.

[A]

How did that go down at home? Like, explain, because I think a lot of parents are probably now perked up and listening, what's going on at home? Mom, dad, what's the situation?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, obviously both of them weren't really keen on it. They didn't, they didn't like the idea. I don't think any parent is going to really like the idea.

[A]

You go to them and say what? Like I actually want to go into details this. You go to them and say, mom, dad, maybe even noticing I've been playing games, somebody wants to pay me full time to be a full time gamer or had they already known? I really want to paint this because I think it's actually going to help a lot of parents.

[B]

It was two things that tipped the scale. The first one was when I Signed that contract and I actually started getting a salary. And then the second one was when World cup got announced, which was, I'm pretty sure, the biggest tournament in esports. And with those two things, that's why I kind of told them, like, this is just the perfect timing. Like, I have to. I have to do this. I don't think I can qualify if I'm still in school six, seven hours a day. I have to go full time for this, you know, this duration of period for the World Cup.

[A]

When you signed the contract, they needed to sign it, Right? How much was that for, if I may ask?

[B]

I don't know if I can say the exact amount, but it was over. It was over 10,000 a year. So for 13, that's, you know, not bad at all.

[A]

But I assume for parents, they would have said, you're only 13 years. Yes, this is a nice number, but it's not like a million dollars. How are you able to get them to get you? Like, I really am fascinated by this. And again, 13's extreme. There's a lot of parents right now with 17 and 18 year olds who don't want to go to college and they're struggling with it. They've consumed my content. They know I believe that university is definitely not for everyone. And in fact, in America, we take on so much debt. It's crazy. Like, you had such a line in the sand. You said, mom, dad, I'm literally going to skip school. Like, you have to. Were you able to just get them there or did they have a feeling that you were that talented?

[B]

I'd supp. Pushed them a lot. I remember, like, it took months and months for it to get to the point where I could quit school. But maybe they just saw the passion. Maybe when they looked in my eyes or they saw how much I was dedicated, they realized, like, this is just something I have to do. That could have been their full process. I don't know exactly, but I was just so fueled.

[A]

You joined this team and then World Cup. Tell everybody who doesn't know what World cup was, where it was, what the prize money is. Obviously we know it well because for many of the people that don't know, give them that.

[B]

Yeah. World cup was a LAN hosted in New York City. It was for 100 players, solos and duos. The total prize pool was 30 million. I think first place in solos was 3 million, and then first place in duos was 3 million split. I got like 13th or 12th in solos, sixth in duos. So it was a nice amount it was like 4, 25K, I think. And that's when I was 13. So that's like a ridiculous amount, you know, to earn on your own.

[A]

You get your parents to buy in. You're making this small but meaningful for a 13 year old, but small to quit school, I would argue even me as an entrepreneurial dad, I'm not sure I'm letting my 13 year old quit for that small of a number. But then it cashes out because how many months later was World Cup?

[B]

Probably not a lot. I'd say within six months.

[A]

So within six months you're in New York City, in Queens. Right. I think it was there. Right where the 10 is where the US Open is played. And at the end of that weekend, you're coming home with US$425,000.

[B]

Yeah. It's ridiculous. It's crazy.

[A]

And so how do your parents feel that?

[B]

I don't know. They were, they were ecstatic. Man, they were so happy. I think that was. That probably lifted a weight off their chest, you know, because like you said, I agree, like 10,000 a year or a bit more than that is not a lot, you know, for a 13 year old. Like. Well, it's a lot for a 13 year old, but it's not like enough to leave school, you know, like you still got a long time ahead of you. So that probably, you know, eased the weight on them and then from there everything just took off.

[A]

Was that 2018, 19. When was that?

[B]

I think it was 2018.

[A]

Right. Okay, so you're a young chap now. Your parents probably are worried about a different thing. Now you're 13 and you have a lot of money, which is a whole, obviously a whole different dynamic. What happens next? You come home next?

[B]

Honestly, it was just back home and back playing every day. There was no.

[A]

At this point you're playing. Are you playing on Twitch?

[B]

Yeah, streaming on Twitch.

[A]

And are you building a following? And it exploded post tournament because you did so well.

[B]

Yeah, just that's what I've always said in a podcast before. Like if you want to blow up on any game, the number one way is just to be the best player. That's just how it is. Like if you're the best player, people will watch you regardless of anything. So that was kind of my mentality.

[A]

Friends that are listening, a lot of you know about influencer marketing and everything going on. What Mongrel is talking about is in the esports profession, you kind of have like the best players and then you have people who occasionally and rightfully explode because they themselves are entertainers or Star Power. Right? They may not be a great player. In fact, the, the, the, the whole thing has evolved into like for example, I, Gary B. Given who I end am and ended up, if I was 16 today, I don't know if I'm the best player, but I could play like a retro game and talk entrepreneur. I could play Paperboy for Nintendo and talk about Entrepr while I'm playing Paperboy. And I would have blown up for being Star Power Influencer, but not for best gamer. What Mongrel's talking about here is a lot of kids ask how to get big and he's saying you don't even have to be like for say charismatic. If you're the best, it's going to work. I would equate it to, to make this make sense for people that aren't following streaming gaming, think back to Pete Sampras and Andre Agassi. Pete Sampras literally was just the best. He was about as interesting as a piece of paper, but he was the best and thus that mattered. There are gamers who are just the best. They may not be the most charismatic. And then you have a group of people that are both and they become superstars. Yes, Mongrel. Is that a good breakdown?

[B]

Perfect. Literally exactly how I would say it.

[A]

All right, so now you're back home, you're 13. Are your parents letting you have access to this money? Or are they saying, we're going to hold it because we don't want you to blow it on bubble gum and porno tapes or whatever the year old will do with it?

[B]

It was a bit of both. I mean, they always let me know like throughout my whole career, like, my money's my money. But they also advised me when I was really, really young. But luckily I didn't have any and I didn't want to spend any money. I just wanted to keep and keep making more. There was nothing I wanted to spend money on.

[A]

So, right, you didn't want a Lamborghini, you just wanted to be. Were you focused on just being the best at that point?

[B]

It should add, to be honest, when I was like 13 to 15, maybe even 16, the money wasn't even the driving factor, it was just being the best player. Like that's just what I wanted to do. So I barely. The only thing I was spending my money on was takeaway and, you know, new PC and all that type of stuff. I wasn't spending on anything really. No holidays, no nothing. I was just sitting in my room, playing all day. And that's what I enjoyed during that time.

[A]

I get it.

[B]

Then what happens then around 17, 18, actually no, a bit before that, I win FNCs. And then I'm so burnt out after playing for four or five years straight, just every single day. So I take a two year or a year and a half break. I just start traveling the world solo again.

[A]

Back to what I know will be valuable to this audience. Take me to the weeks, days and months before taking a break because it was a big news even for me, who keeps an eye on everything in culture. I was aware of it before we got to know you at vaynersports and all that. Again, every parent or anybody who's over the age of 18 knows that 13 to 17, those are crucial years in the development of a human being. A 13 year old and a 17 year old or like two different human beings. You're maturing a lot. All these things. Probably some of the things your parents worried about of like not having the social, you know, elements of what school brings. Forget about the education. What leads you to that break? What, what, you know, how is it? Like, when is the first moment? Because I know at 13, 14, probably even into 15, it sounds like you're fucking pumped. You're just fucking playing every minute. I'm going to be the number one player in the world. Fuck, Booga, he won the tournament. All that shit. When does the crack in that start to be like, hey, I'm not as happy?

[B]

Yeah, I think like you said, it's when I just got a bit older. Like 16, 17. I've been doing it for four or five years straight, like every single day, no breaks. I was not going out with friends or anything. And it just got to a point where like, I realized I needed to get out.

[A]

Like, did you feel lonely?

[B]

Not really lonely. Not, not so much. I mean, I.

[A]

Were you bored?

[B]

Yeah, just like bored and burnt out. Like I was just doing it too much for too long and I wanted to experience life like I was at that age where like, I want to go out, I want to see stuff. I don't want to just be in my room all day. I haven't experienced anything for these four or five years. Like, I've done my job, I've done a really good job at work to get where I am now.

[A]

You're screaming all the day, all day. How do you announce this to your audience? And how long before you did it? Quit disappeared for a while. How long, like, were you like, okay, I'm gonna do it this day. And then you're, like, too scared to do it. And it was another month. Like, how long was that game?

[B]

I think I just slowly stopped streaming as much towards the end. Like, the last, like, three, four months. And then I kind of just went radio silent. I just. I just dipped and I just started traveling. Honestly.

[A]

Were your fans looking for you people?

[B]

Yeah, people were wondering, like, where I want when. I think I had done a few updates, but nothing major.

[A]

And where'd you go?

[B]

I went Japan, Singapore, Greece, Spain. I went to this Finko Capital Club. It's like an entrepreneurship thing. I wanted to get into that. I just wanted to explore, like, everything I've ever thought of, you know, just, like, get out of my system and just travel and just see the world a bit more.

[A]

It's an important question again for everyone. Do you think you were in a place of depression or was it just. Was it healthy? Were you like, oh, I'm starting to have, like, negative. Like. Like, just, I'm really sad. Or was it a little bit more of. You were getting into indifference and you lost your passion and you. You got ahead of it before it got into something worse and you did something about it.

[B]

There was a point where I was really sad because I got to, like, the position where I was financially, like, so stable for. So, like, I could be financially stable pretty much forever at that point. And I was so young. I still am so young, but I just didn't know where to go from there. I was just stuck. Like, I had everything I ever wanted to get right.

[A]

You're financially successful and professionally successful, and you haven't hit your 18th birthday. It allows someone to question everything. Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So what did you find in that travels?

[B]

Honestly, I need something to work on, otherwise I actually get super depressed. Like, I realized that, and that's why I've came back harder than ever. Because if I realize if I'm not working, I actually get quite, quite sad and quite depressed. I hate doing nothing all day. Like, there's nothing worse than that. So now I'm just so fired up. I just want to do stuff all the time. I never want to have any downtime.

[A]

I get it. I live that life. So you go away for a year and a half. Right. Or so. And this could be interesting for a lot of people who are listening, who've stopped doing something and then came back to it. How did that go down? Did you just show back up or did you make an announcement? Or how did the comeback come again for everybody's listening for a lot of your kids or for you yourself, this is a very famous esports player at the time. You know, it's, I'm telling you, it's the comp of like a very big athlete just disappearing and then coming back. I mean, I'm not going to make this comp for a million reasons because it's not the exact right comp. Plus I hate the guy. But when Michael Jordan came back after his hiatus, that was like a big ass deal, you know. Again, Michael is a one of one and I hate him. So I hate that I had to use that analogy. But it's a big one. The other person I hate did the same thing. Tom Brady. But like when you have these iconic good players come back, it's big news in the E gaming, esports, Fortnite streaming world. This was, you know, how was the news received? Did you make a big to do about it or did you just start streaming again?

[B]

It was quite, it was quite lucky actually because I came back and Fortnite announced their OG season or their OG chapter in December or November.

[A]

Okay, I'm sorry to interrupt you. I apologize. But I really want to keep the audience understand this. You had started having feelings that you wanted to come back and serendipitously Fortnite had decided to do an OG series to bring back some of its best player. Just kind of like go that route. So it worked perfectly for you.

[B]

It was perfect. That's exactly what I needed. And then from there and I haven't stopped.

[A]

And how'd you do in that OG season?

[B]

It was crazy. Like when I came back, bro, people loved him and like I was gone for one and a half, two years and I was streaming every day for like 10 hours. Like everyone enjoyed it, everyone loved it. It was like back in the old days, it felt like that it was so fun for you as well. Yeah. And from there just, it just, it just took off again for the next year and now I'm just in a position where I've never been happier with everything.

[A]

Actually. Let's bounce around a little bit here. I'll go back to the bigger theme at the end, but I'm going to bounce around because a lot of people are contemplating becoming gamers and streamers competitively, casually for brand deals, marketing business. Here's a very nerdy question for that. I think some parents or players are thinking about Fortnite has been your main game.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Have you tried to get great at other games and do you think it's possible like this Is something I've always am curious about. If you're great at Fortnite at the level that you are, if Call of Duty does a new game that takes over everyone's interest, if something Rocket League if. Or a new game altogether comes out, that is the most lucrative, do you think you have an overall gaming talent that can make you very competitive in any game? Or are these skills specific or does it depend on the player? Some can be multiply good at some things and other people are one dimensional. One game. That's the question.

[B]

I think it depends on the person. But for myself, I know I can go pro in any game if I try like I did with Fortnite. It was the same thing with Dookie Dash. It wasn't a, you know, a crazy intense game, but it was reaction times and it was the same thing. And when that started, I put my whole heart into it. Sixteen hours a day for three months again.

[A]

Yeah. Let's talk about this board ape. So now we're talking NFT Land Bored Ape. Yuga put out a challenge that was very, very exciting and had some things set up. I don't want to get any details wrong. So set up for everybody, the timing of this and what the whole thing was all about.

[B]

Yeah. Dookie Dash was like you said, a board ape game. It was where you had to go through a tunnel, dodge obstacles. It got faster as time went on and you had to collect like little, little points you had to buy. What was that?

[A]

I mean, the winning prize was what again? I don't recall.

[B]

The winning prize was a key. An nft.

[A]

A key?

[B]

Yeah, I feel, I'm pretty sure it was all speculation that no one knew what the key was going to do. But obviously bored ape A1 of 1 NFT is crazy. So that put, you know, a lot of hyper on the game. Yeah, I just played that for like three months straight.

[A]

And is it true Mongrel and I could have this wrong. This is actually. I actually don't know the answer to this question, but I thought I remembered because I didn't know it was you. I heard at the time in the headlines or on Twitter or somewhere was someone who was a collector had hired a professional gamer to win. Is that how it went down for you?

[B]

So many people did that. I played for some people's passes as well. Like a lot of people would play for other people's passes, get them scores and they pay for that. Yeah. But for my. My past, mine was all myself.

[A]

Oh, I see. And you were the winner. So that Key was you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And did you sell that nft or do you still have it, or how did that go down?

[B]

Yeah, I sold that to Adit Weisman. Really nice guy. Yeah. Sold it to him for 1.6 million.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I think was the final price a thousand eve, whatever at that time. And that was another thing was just. Just crazy, you know, Three months of grinding for that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But to the original question, like, I know I can go pro in any game if I put the time in.

[A]

To be honest, if somebody's listening right now from all these journeys, how old are you right now?

[B]

20.

[A]

Right. I mean, I'm sure that just, you know, like, some people walking and, you know, walking their dog, driving the car, gasping at, you know, how much life you've lived in this very short 20 years. But if we were to recap it, if this is like the final chapter of a book and you're trying to bring value to the world in all these twists and turns, and not just from a perspective of what you've been through, because you've started to lay that out here in this podcast, but for people that are, you know, from other conversations you've had with the parents of kids or the kids, you know, what are. What are the lessons learned, you think, from this journey so far?

[B]

I think my biggest lesson over the past 20 years is anything you put your mind to, you can do. And it's like, it sounds crazy, but I'm. I literally mean anything. Like, everything is in the. In the mind. It doesn't matter where you are, what, or what you're doing right now. If you can make yourself believe that you're in a certain place and you work towards that 100%, you'll always get there. That's genuinely the lesson I've learned so far, the biggest one.

[A]

You know, it's funny, I spoke in Dubai yesterday, and a lot of people from all over the different world, and those are always challenging stages for me to go on because I'm improv and I rely on the audience. And so as I'm, like, literally being introduced, there's, like 10,000 people in the Coca Cola arena in Dubai. I'm like, shit, what the fuck am I going to talk about? This is how crazy I do public speaking. I walked in and my opening line was like, look, this is. This whole game is perspective. I couldn't agree with you more in my 49 years. So now we got 69 years that we're trying to channel to everybody who's listening. It's fucking perspective. Like, if you decide life is good, it's good. And if you decide life is bad, it's bad. Point of your up and down. In those teenage, late teenage years, there was a time where you decided, like, oh, shit, this stuff sucks. Like, what do I do now? Like, the right. Like. And, you know, I think if. You know, I do think that the number one underrated thing in the world is people. I think we underestimate our cap. Our cap capacities, our capabilities. I believe that.

[B]

Yeah, me too. I think, like I said, everything is what you believe you can do and how hard. How hard you go at. That's how I think it is.

[A]

I agree, brother. What's going on in the general gaming space right now? Little update for the people thinking about getting into it, starting startups in it. What's the state of the union of gaming in your perspective? If you take a step back, what's hot, what's not? What are some of the trends? You know, Twitch, Fortnite, Call of Duty streamers, general streamers, gaming, gambling. Like, give us a. Give us a state of the union.

[B]

Yeah, I think next year, in my opinion, I think Fortnite's going to have kind of like its second prime. Even two days ago, three days ago, when there was that event for the new chapter that we reached, the record amount of players playing the game, which was 14 million in the whole, you know, career fortnight. I think next year it's gonna take off again like no other. And I also think GTA 6 is gonna be one of the biggest things coming out.

[A]

How long have we been waiting?

[B]

I don't know, bro. It feels like forever, but I think it's gonna be the next couple years now, hopefully.

[A]

So GT6, you know, obviously, literally my favorite joke is people commenting, you know, on social media, like, whatever happened, like, I can't believe this happened. And we. Before we got GT6, it will that. You know, when would do you do? You know, I could Google it. While we're talking, do you know when GT5 came out?

[B]

No idea. Probably over 10 years ago. Close to that number.

[A]

2013. So we're 11 years removed from GT5, which was a PlayStation 3, Xbox 360. I mean, is. Is this gonna be more of like, a Fortnite structure where people can be playing from all over the world? Like, is that how they're building it?

[B]

I have no idea, but I think they're gonna integrate a lot more stuff that other games haven't done yet. I mean, if they've taken so long to build this game, I Think it's gonna be pretty much perfect. And I think it's one of those games where as soon as it's released, every big stream is gonna be playing it. Every. Every person's gonna be watching it.

[A]

You think there's a chance it could be a flop?

[B]

I don't think so. Maybe like a tiny, tiny chance, but I think it's just going to be a huge success.

[A]

But is it a multiplayer like the Universe game, kind of like Fortnite is or no. Or you don't know.

[B]

It's kind of like a multiplayer game, I'm guessing. I mean, they also have the single player, but the GTA online stuff is going to be huge. And I don't know if it's true, but I've heard people talk and they're going to integrate crypto and all of that stuff into it, so with items and stuff. So I don't know how that's going to be okay. But yeah, I think it's gonna, it's gonna most likely take off, I assume.

[A]

What about streaming platforms? Is it still Twitch Heavy or have some of the other people been able to penetrate? What are you seeing?

[B]

A lot of people nowadays be streaming, multi stream, so YouTube, Twitch, tick tock, all at the same time? I think that is the wave. That's what I'm doing as well.

[A]

And what about emerging gamers? Like, is it fun for you as someone who broke out at 13 to be 20 and see like a 9 year old's popping up and like the old, like the fact that you're the OG and 80% of the audience listening right now on podcasts, you're half their age and are like, what the. Like, how do you feel when you see the 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 year olds pop up?

[B]

It's actually really fun because I see myself in a lot of the upcoming pros, so I actually have a chance to give some advice that I wish I had back then, which is actually really nice. I like seeing the upcoming Fortnite. I prose the young ones doing good and stuff like that. It's nice.

[A]

Do you answer DMS and messages here and there? Occasionally. When you can, just because you know they'll freak out and think it's cool and maybe they'll listen to you.

[B]

Yeah, all the time.

[A]

What about your general curiosities? We heard earlier about the entrepreneurial stuff. Like when you think about your 20s and then 30s and then 40, you know, I back to advice and living like I'm 49 as we're talking and it's Scary to me that I feel in my stomach and my soul the way I felt when I was 20. Right. Like I'm 49. And when you're 20, 49 feels old. I mean, I remember being 20 and my uncle and my cousin was 28 and I thought he was like older, you know, like, like a grown up. So it's not lost on me that at 29 years older than you, it feels much older. My parents were 20 years older than me. I'm 30 years older than you. But I can tell you when you get to 49, now that you've realized you're just about the doing, you're going to be very happy. Because at 49, I sit here and I'm like, okay, I'm at halftime. I have 49 more years to do shit. And it's intoxicating. And I think about all the things I want to do and the impact I want to make. How are you thinking about these next eight decades that you have in front of you? Do you think you'll get into some of those entrepreneurial things or do you feel like you're in the craft you're in for a while?

[B]

I think for now, for the next few years at least, I'm going to stay what I'm doing in the future. I've got some, some cool, cool ideas I want to do and try. If I fail, I fail, but I just want to try them and see how they work out. But for the next like 10, and even more than that, I just want to get as much life experience as I can, man. Like, I just want to be like, full of wisdom when I'm 60, 50, 40, and I just want to keep learning, keep experiencing new stuff and just learn as much as possible.

[A]

You feel like that traveling was very fruitful for you. Like you got out of it what you needed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And where do you live now? Still the uk?

[B]

Yeah, London.

[A]

And you like that?

[B]

Yeah, I love it. It's nice.

[A]

It's amazing. Final thoughts before I let you bounce here. Anything we didn't touch on, that you had hoped we'd touch on or anything that's popped up to mind while we've been jamming.

[B]

The perspective thing, I think that was such a key point. Like, it's so hard to wrap your head around it, but it really, I really do believe everything is in the mind, like, and you can actually achieve anything you want to do as long as you believe it and you, you do your best at it. I think it's all possible and everyone listening, like Whatever your goals are, whatever you want to achieve, if you truly believe you're going to get there and you give it your all every single day, you'll get there. That's just how I feel like, that's just how life works.

[A]

And if you don't actually tangibly get there, you will feel so satisfied because you fully went there. Yeah, you know.

[B]

Exactly. Yeah.

[A]

Which is a whole nother thing in your older years. Mitigating regret, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How can people find you, brother?

[B]

Mongrel, on literally everything that. That's literally it.

[A]

M O N G R A A L on social, on streaming. They can find you with that.

[B]

Exactly, yeah.

[A]

Brother. I wish you 200 more years of success. You're 20. You might get lucky and catch. I literally just got off the plane from Dubai and ran into a friend and we were talking quite a bit on the flight. And then as we were walking off, this literally happened eight hours ago. Six hours ago. I said we were talking about. Oh, we were talking about. He left his glasses on the flight. He's 54. I'm 49. And I was saying to him that my eyesight has gone. This is going to be important for you to hear because you need your eyes for what you do. And he was like, yeah, now we can't get the surgery. And I was saying to him, I can live with that, but if they invent some shit that allows you to live forever, but they say that you can only take it if you're under 35, like, if I miss that in my lifetime, I'm going to be really fucking pissed. I would struggle anyway. I wish you 200.