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- [00:00]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I was really, really good at baseball. One day after a game, I struck out. In the car ride home, I kind of just tried to say that the reason I struck out was that the sun got in my eye. I believe many modern parents, A, let that go. B, sometimes add to it. My mother was like, there was no son. You struck out. This is the GaryVee audio experience.
- [00:27]
Liz Vaynerchuk
So, as you know, my mom and I, we wrote some children's books. And they're kids books, but really they're secret stories to help with hard conversations, what we call productive conversations, what you might call kind candor tools. And we really lead with empathy. And so there's all these business guys like Elon Musk. My mom sent me a quote that was like, empathy is the fundamental weakness of society. They say shit like that. I want to know, how are you counteracting that sentence in your home, in your business, in your everyday? That empathy is the weakness of our society.
- [01:04]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I mean, me personally, I've been pretty loud and aggressive for over a decade publicly, on an almost weekly basis that I think empathy is one of the great human strengths of our society.
- [01:19]
Avery Vaynerchuk
So, you know, yeah, we set you up for that. Because. Because exactly. Like, when we hear really powerful people spreading messages like that, like, I'm like, okay, yeah, cool. And now.
- [01:36]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah. I mean, ladies, I think, look, from my perspective, the world is entitled to the think what they think, right? Like, I surely put no one on a pedestal, let alone someone who's made a lot of money, like, or like. So, like, when I hear if that's Eli's quote, right, Like, I just, I take the counter, right? But I take the counter on the complete other side too, right? There's people that I think have created extraordinary amounts of entitlement and wah wah culture. And I kind of sit in this really funny spot where like on both sides of, let's say the warmth versus the hardcore or the this versus the that, or let's just get right to the punchline, the right versus the left or the like, you know, I am of a place where, like, do you know what my reaction is? I feel bad that Elon believes that.
- [02:42]
Avery Vaynerchuk
I know.
- [02:42]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Like, I feel like, oh, damn. Like, clearly, you know, I don't, you know, obviously Elon is more political than I am, so that might just be posturing for an agenda that I'm unaware. I don't know if that is his belief. Right. I know unlimited people on both the left and right that say many things they don't actually believe in, which is the thing I most disrespect in life for other reasons. But any human that thinks empathy is a weakness is deeply emotionally confused. That is my personal opinion.
- [03:13]
Avery Vaynerchuk
Well, I think guys like Elon, I also feel empathy and compassion for someone who is believing that or even spreading that message. Because, you know, our origin story, the first book that we wrote, the children's book, is called Captain Complainer. And so the kids that grow up that are the Captain Complainers, I think a lot of times are what I would think maybe Elon was, which is, you know, where they're feeling sort of out of control inside their bodies and they're acting out on the outside and they're complaining a lot and their behavior
- [03:54]
Liz Vaynerchuk
problems feels contrarian, but really it's dysregulation. And so what?
- [04:00]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Could be. Could be. Yeah, could be. I would also take a different point of view, my personal opinion. The biggest complainers I know, and I mean, I know them, I'm talking, I've known them for 40 years, 30 years, 50 years by a country mile, are not people that are struggling with internal trauma or ADHD or dyslexia or like something is triggering something. There are people who had parents that overcompensated and created enormous entitlement and rewarded complaining versus accountability. These single. Like when you said Captain complaining, I thought you were going in such a different path. Like the top 30 captain complainers in my life, which is like me really knowing, let alone the 10,000 DMs I get a day, the hundreds of thousands I know of through my life. I'm talking to 30 people. I know everything about their parents, their DNA, their life. The top 30 complainers I know had parents that created complete entitlement.
- [05:15]
Liz Vaynerchuk
But you know what's interesting is my mom, I would say that she didn't create that. And my brother was the kid. That's who Captain Complainer is based off of.
- [05:24]
Avery Vaynerchuk
And he is wonderful.
- [05:25]
Liz Vaynerchuk
And he is not a Captain Complainer anymore. But when we.
- [05:27]
Avery Vaynerchuk
He's 28 now. Yeah, yeah.
- [05:30]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I mean, I mean, to your point. Yeah, to your point, I get it. But let me explain something that's worth looking at. You got a different version of your mom than he did. I know this as a parent. I know this as being the child of a parent who, as you probably both know, because you know a little about me, I put on the pedestal as the greatest parent of all time, my mother. But I will tell you that if I brought her here and said, mom, did you parent me exactly the same way that you parented Liz and aj, she would say absolutely not in hindsight. So yes, but don't forget we all have different DNA. You had a certain DNA that might have been a perfect dancing partner for your mom. I sure did for my mom. Whereas my sister had a different one that created a different version of my mom. I see this too, by the way. You want to hear the wildest thing of all time?
- [06:29]
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- [06:55]
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- [07:26]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I'm good at creating entitlement. I created lack of accountability in all my companies. I have it in me too. Even though it's the thing I believe in the most, I couldn't see it because sometimes kindness and empathy, like anything, loses its way. So obviously I have no context of what I'm talking about here, of what mom did, what with you versus your brother. But you know, a lot of times it's the reaction of the parent to the natural DNA of the child that creates the framework, not just the DNA. Hey everybody, Hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast. That's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show, but follow the podcast. It'll make my mom super happy.
- [08:06]
Avery Vaynerchuk
Well, I was going to say, you know, the entitlement is. I wouldn't call it entitlement. I would actually push back on it. That what happens is, is when a kid is complaining about everything like kids are, you know, even if you're wired a little more towards the negative. So I would say my first kid. Exactly to your point. I was a different version of me when I had her brother. He's three and a half years older than her and I was learning I had never been a mom before and I had a baby that cried all the time and I was just trying to make him happy. Constant, constantly. And I was learning, you know, I knew a lot more. Three and a half years later she was born and she came into the world wired differently, of course. But I think that what happens is, is, you know, I was like a dog with a bone reading all these books, trying to figure out like, why the hell is my baby crying all the time? Why is my kid so fetchy? You know, Like I really. And it was. My husband was like, what the hell are you reading now?
- [09:09]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Was he colic?
- [09:11]
Avery Vaynerchuk
He was, he was colicky. He was I think responding to me being like, I, I'm not ready for all this. I think I was stressed. He was stressed. I think he is a more introverted person naturally. I think he had a sensitive nervous system and I think sounds were louder, smells were smellier and that's how he was.
- [09:36]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Which are actually superpowers in the end
- [09:39]
Avery Vaynerchuk
it which have turned in.
- [09:41]
Liz Vaynerchuk
He's.
- [09:41]
Avery Vaynerchuk
His self awareness is off the charts as an adult.
- [09:46]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I mean, I mean literally, this is what I'm playing with as I'm talking to you. Literally, me, me, me too. I cried my entire childhood.
- [09:55]
Avery Vaynerchuk
Yes, he's. He, he was wired in that way. And so I was like, I got to figure this kid out. And I think what you call entitlement, I call parents that are so uncomfortable with their kids discomfort that they're. And I did this at times. They're jumping through hoops to try and make them happy and they're not holding them accountable to sit and build that
- [10:22]
Gary Vaynerchuk
stress tolerance which is the definition of entitlement. You're talking about the actions that led to it. I just, you know that you just defined you like actually Google it. Like, listen, by the way, I just want to take a step back because I like talking. I'm much more obsessed with talking in general than actually something direct. Cause boy, oh boy, is there nothing harder than being a parent. You love these little fuckers more than life itself. Like it's all easy to talk about on a podcast, but then you're in the trap. I mean, you should have seen me last night because my 13 year old son is crying about the Knicks loss as we're walking out of Madison Square Garden. Like I could talk in theory. All you want. All I wanted to do was like, don't worry boy, it's gonna get like, I get it. So I want to take it a little away from your Son. And your specific situation for me, if I may. But I will say in that last exchange, there's a million variables. Why? Why it happens. A million. Right. Yeah, but. But I will say humbly, it all leads to the actions that do create the thing.
- [11:37]
Avery Vaynerchuk
Yeah.
- [11:37]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Like, there's so many. I mean, I know. I mean, it's so funny what's racing through my head right now. And I won't share because it's other people's businesses, but social skills, where it was fine until 6, but then, oh, wait a minute. You're not so likable in school or bad grades or something happening in the household or one that I've got in my mind that breaks my soul. One of the parents dying prematurely and then the single parent is overreacting properly. This is so much trauma. Like there's just a million things that can happen. But when you melt it down, even in the. You know, I think about the reverse. I think about people that I've watched get to the other side in more adverse situations, but where the parent, for some reason had the ability to draw lines in the sand. It's really fascinating. I would argue, if I may, that that whatever the circumstance that lead to it, including the natural DNA of the child, making it easier to do it or not, there is nothing harder than to be disciplined and hold a child accountable when you're a parent. I will die on that hill. I will die on that hill. Comma. There's nothing more black and white to me that. That's the punchline. And how you get.
- [12:57]
Avery Vaynerchuk
And how the word entitlement to me feels triggering like. No, it feels like it has to do with when I think of people of privilege and feeling entitled to the car on the 16th birthday.
- [13:13]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I understand. And I would. And I would argue that that's your definition. Makes sense. We all interpret. For me, entitlement is an expectation for others to do something. When you wawa.
- [13:25]
Avery Vaynerchuk
Yeah, okay.
- [13:26]
Gary Vaynerchuk
When I wawa.
- [13:27]
Liz Vaynerchuk
No, I agree.
- [13:29]
Gary Vaynerchuk
When I wawa. From the luck of my draw, there's never been a day in my life that I can recall where I expected someone to do something about it besides myself.
- [13:40]
Avery Vaynerchuk
Right.
- [13:40]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And Captain Complainer is complaining because they expect other people to do something about it. Yeah.
- [13:47]
Liz Vaynerchuk
We're calling attention to something that's happening in them. And I think, you know, you said something about, you know, you parent each kid differently. And it's true in our books, like our first book, Captain Complainer, it's a dysregulated kid or maybe an entitled kid, as you would Say, and then the second book, Screaming cis, is when I would react to Captain Complainer. And then the third book is My Little Brother, which is Beginner Brave. And that's uplifting and that's mom kind of knowing exactly what to say.
- [14:15]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah. And by the way, it goes in again, like, you know, for every parent that's listening. I just hope this is encouraging and honestly grounded in truth. It goes a million different ways. I mean, like, you know, again, I'm an immigrant, so I've heard this version a lot. So many immigrant parents have talked to me about actually getting it right the first time because they were grounded in the old world. And then as they got Americanized, they went in reverse of what you just said. The amount of parents I've talked to that if like, you know, now we're talking over a third glass of wine, you know, you're getting real with friends or new acquaintances, and they're like, I actually got it wrong along the way because as more success for our family happened, I. I got away from what I learned in Colombia or Poland or India, and Kid three got the reverse. But it's all still back to the same thing that I believe, which is what is boundaries, what is accountability? What is tough love? So interesting, right? Because it ends with love. And I think we blurred kind of discipline with abuse. Right. Like, what is today by modern parenting standards, like, unacceptable was mundane 40 years ago, and I think a lot about that. And by the way, not everything we do today is wrong or not better. Much of it is better. I think we do, though, have to look at things, sitting here and saying, me, I, my brother, my sister, your brother. That's silly. That's like seven people. I think if we take a step back, I think we can all agree that the average 20 to 30 year old in society across the world is in a different place than we were 40 years ago. And this excuse that it's the algorithms or social media is a convenience to, I think, a bigger trend, which is global prosperity at scale. And I don't know, we all love to make fun of fourth generation wealth, wealthy kids as like Nepo babies and look at them and da, da, da. But we don't realize those things are happening in our natural families as well, because every generation hopefully is a little bit better or the world's a little bit better. And so, I don't know, there's a lot to think through on this subject matter that excites me. You know, you can tell, like, I love nerding out with you too. Yeah. And I love jamming with you guys. The times I've been able to, like, this is an important topic. And I will say, I think we all know the answer is to find the middle, to find the balance. Like, we all know that. We all. To whatever extreme you might be on. I think there's been a lot of overcorrection in the last 40 years.
- [16:52]
Avery Vaynerchuk
No, I completely agree with you. I think when we focus a little bit on the micro. The micro stories. And I've seen this just in the years I've been talking about, you know, being a parent, which I think really is being a good leader.
- [17:08]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes.
- [17:08]
Avery Vaynerchuk
Now I think parenting and leadership, it's
- [17:10]
Gary Vaynerchuk
one and the same.
- [17:11]
Avery Vaynerchuk
The same skill, the same game. Right. And I think a lot of times when we do talk about the micro, you know, people are thinking, hm. Because a lot of times when I coach people, they're like, I got more from that other person being coached about their scenario than sometimes when I'm in the hot seat.
- [17:33]
Liz Vaynerchuk
Taboo topic. Like, I. I feel like people are so scared talking about their fuck ups. Even though it's the most common shared experience. Like everyone has been a child. Most people are not most people. But a lot of people end up being parents. It's like talking about sex or money. It's weird.
- [17:46]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And yeah, I mean, it's weird because look, the greatest thing that ever happened in my life is some level of like, extreme. I don't give a fuck what you two think about me that I have. Like, I will kiss the ground my mother walks on. And you know, unfortunately, one day, like, we'll visit her at her final resting place and kiss that place forever. For me, not giving a fuck about what people think about me, it is the great unlock. Things are taboo because you worry about what people think about your sex life, your money situation, your parenting. It's what we do.
- [18:22]
Avery Vaynerchuk
Well, your mom, I mean, I've heard the stories that McDonald's story is all time. Yeah, it's. I was like, bow down to Tamara Vaynerchuk. Am I pronouncing her name correctly?
- [18:36]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You are. And she take. She. If she was here, she would say she'll take anything. Like Tamara. Tamara. Like, except Tuesday we used to have, we used to have a handyman that would come around and he literally thought my mom's name was Tuesday. And. And so she says she'll take any version of it as long as it's not Tuesday. Yeah, I mean, I heard that.
- [18:53]
Avery Vaynerchuk
McDonald's story, I want to say in 2017.
- [18:57]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah.
- [18:57]
Avery Vaynerchuk
When I Was trying to run a business and thinking I need to learn about marketing, and I wasn't. And I was really just interested in your personal stories. Yeah, unfortunately, I should have learned more, But I heard that McDonald's story, and I was like, this is a good boy.
- [19:15]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah. I mean, that's it. Yeah. Well, it's because you're smart about the most important. I'm the same way. I will know pretty quickly what the punchline of someone is if I can get enough details. You're absolutely right. You're like, oh, this is the byproduct of a mother that knew. Exactly.
- [19:33]
Avery Vaynerchuk
Will you tell the story? Sure, sure.
- [19:36]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I mean, it's so simple. And talk about. I'm gonna get emotional because I want this so badly for everyone. This is why I like being a good person. I'm about to explain many stories, but I've never really said this. It kind of just clicked in my head. I will tell you why I want to be a good person, and it has to do with this story. This happened 40 years ago, and when I wait, I want to keep building this up because people are going to really find this fascinating. The level of mundane. Mundaness to this story is profound. I played a little league baseball game. We went to McDonald's after the game. For immigrant family like us that grew up with nothing, going to McDonald's was like flying private to Turks and Caicos. Me and my sister are losing our mind that we're even going to McDonald's. This is, like, profound. Like, that's how special it was. We go and I. I'm, you know, high energy. Who knows what the hell chemicals I have in me, Right? We didn't diagnose back then. And I, like, run ahead, and I just happened to open the door because I was a little bit ahead of my mom and sister. For an elderly lady, she walked in. If you understood the circus my mom created around that moment. You're such a good boy. You have a golden heart. I love what you just did. I mean, we talked about it the whole time. She just repeated what I'd done is profound. You would have thought I won the Nobel Peace Prize. That's it. That's the end of the story. That sticking with me and becoming a North Star is why I do what I do. It's why I'm doing this podcast right now, knowing that I might say something. And this is why I repeat the same shit over and over, knowing that I might say something when the person's ready to receive it. It is not lost on Me that my mom must have done that a lot of other times that are lost in the ether because I don't remember them. But knowing that we, the three of us, anybody else, the thing that motivates me to make content by a country mile is not what it's going to lead to in business, though I'm not against, is fully knowing that I might say one sentence at the right exact time for the person to hear it that fundamentally changes the course of their lives. Right now. Obviously a mother to a son at 10 is gonna have more weight than me being someone on the Internet. But I'm on the receiving end of unlimited messages that look like that. And it's very intoxicating and it is what has absolutely shaped me. And I will tell you that when I die, I need, when I get my five minutes on whatever Twitter is of the day in 50 years, God willing, I need it to be that he was a nice guy. I don't need it that he made all this money or that he did all these things. What's gonna. What drives me is my grandchildren hearing stories that no one knows about from people about things I did for their parents or grand grandparents. That is my North Star.
- [22:47]
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- [23:17]
Avery Vaynerchuk
Avery, will you read the intention that I wrote just for us at the top of our note preparing for this conversation?
- [23:24]
Liz Vaynerchuk
Yeah. She said intention to help even one person out there think differently about their kid.
- [23:30]
Gary Vaynerchuk
It's a great intention. It's super powerful. It's a life worth living. It's what everybody gets to in the end. I mean, it's incredible. Like I'm this full bled entrepreneur. Nothing excites me more than selling stuff, wine, collectibles, stuff that means nothing in the scheme of things. Though the emotions they invoke are kind of interesting to me, especially collectibles, nostalgia, all that stuff. I have all this such a materialistic, commerce capitalistic part of me, yet I hate all of it. Because I know it's what people do to hide up what's going on inside. So it's crazy. It's like, it's so wild. It's like Clark Kent and Superman. It's like this bizarro two sided life I have, which is like I spend my days trying to get people not to buy things to cover up emotional insecurities. And I spend my nights selling things, hopefully with a deeper meaning. Like, it's so funny. The two core things I've sold in my life, wine and collectibles, I actually think are really interesting. I think they're gateway drugs to personal connection. Like, obviously there's a lot of ways to use wine. If you drink nine bottles by yourself at night, that's really bad. But if you share one bottle with four friends and reminisce, I think it's a beautiful gateway to community. Collectibles. If you spend all your money on it, speculating, gambling, and then it hurts you versus it becomes a sense of community. You go to Comic Con and you meet your best friends. So like, everything in life is interesting to me that way. But yeah, I love your intentionality. I wake up every day with it, by the way. Every single day. I think there's a reason I look the way I look to when I'm, you know, I'm often misunderstood. I'm often overrated. I'm often underrated. When I'm really well analyzed one day, whatever the extreme AI is, that's perfect. I do feel proud. I feel like people will understand. I had a real purpose and agenda. It was always clear to me. I was the fifth grade president for a reason. I know what I want to do, I know why I want to lead. And it is not to fulfill a gap that was left in my childhood. It is almost like a gratitude guilt potion for knowing how good my childhood was that I want to give it and pass it on.
- [25:53]
Avery Vaynerchuk
Well, you, you kind of prove my hypothesis of like, your mom instilled that McDonald's message. Okay, so I, I teach this thing called pack leadership and I'm teaching moms like, this is your pack. It's pretty primal and you're the leader. So we're going to show up loving but also firm. And so to offset that McDonald's story, will you also tell the accountability baseball story?
- [26:22]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Of course.
- [26:24]
Avery Vaynerchuk
The firm part. I love that.
- [26:26]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know, it's funny. They're very similar. They probably happened with it. You know, it's funny, maybe you have much more insight to it than I do, but like, this feels very like. I think there's a lot going on, like 8, 9, 10. You know, it's funny how much I feel like that was the era and it could be circumstantial we were getting out of like poverty into like, I don't know. But for me, a lot of the big foundational stories are what I'm about to tell you might have happened within six months of the other story in the same parking lot, the Bradley's McDonald's parking lot. Again, going to there after because my baseball field was very close to the shopping center and running errands and this one's blurrier. But I know the essence of it when I tell it. I talk specifically, but I want to really break the story down. Punchline of this is I was incredibly good at baseball as a child, me and my brother. Now my son looks like his son too. We're not big enough, we're not strong enough, we're not athletic enough to be like great sportsmen. But boy, do we have really good understanding, like fast brains and we have really good hand eye coordination. So all of us excel in our youth before it gets about size, speed, agility and athleticism. I was really, really good at baseball. Like, like I was one of 10 kids and now I'm just bragging. One of 10, 10 year olds that got drafted into the 13, 14, 15 year old league jumped all my friends. It was awesome. One day after a game, just mundane, I struck out. By the way, big shout out to John Longo. If you know John Longo who grew up in Edison, New Jersey in the early to mid-80s. He went to J.P. stevens High School and John Adams Middle School. This kid was a beast too. He's a big chunky Italian kid. And he struck me out. And in the car ride home, I kind of just tried to say that the reason I struck out was that the sun got in my eye. I believe many modern parents, A, let that go, B, sometimes add to it. My mother was like, there was no son, you struck out. And there was just something about it that just, it was, it was so. It was so big. It just. Back to complaining, back to excuses. It just started to teach me, like that's not what we're going to be about around here. She was the leader of the pack, you know, she held me accountable. I have a terrible report card hanging in my office right now. It's okay, we don't. I know I usually grab it. We're wrapping up here. But she grounded me every. My mother told me I was going to be wildly successful and happy, yet she grounded me every report card four times a year. Three. She kind of gave me a little pass for the last one because it was summer. She grounded Me every progress report that said I'm going to make a T shirt called in danger of failing. I don't know if anybody grew up in the 80s or 90s, and in their progress reports, they had a checkbox that said, in danger of failing. It'd be like, good, moderate. And then there will be a box, at least in my high school, that said in danger all the way at the bottom. In danger of failing. And my progress report, by the way, when I got into progress report culture, which was like, the middle report card, that destroyed me because that meant I was punished eight times a year, like, and it was in danger of failing. She grounded me every time. She also did something else that I kind of really think is real. And again, you guys can pontificate because I gotta run. She would not allow me to disrespect her at any cost. In fact, on the record, as a parting thought, this is real talk. I was scared to even think in my own brain that I was gonna disrespect her because I thought she could feel it, that I was thinking it, and that would get me in trouble. Forget about what we see today where kids verbalize it and do it.
- [30:34]
Liz Vaynerchuk
Couldn't even think.
- [30:36]
Gary Vaynerchuk
It's crazy. I'm 50 years old right now. I'm saying it, and I'm a little. Like, it's a little uncomfortable. Like, I hope she's not. Like, this is an angel of sweetness and love. And I could not comprehend disrespecting this
- [30:51]
Avery Vaynerchuk
woman because she was a pack leader. She embodied it.
- [30:58]
Gary Vaynerchuk
She lived it at, like, her lack of hypocrisy on her belief system is profound.
- [31:04]
Liz Vaynerchuk
That's amazing.
- [31:05]
Avery Vaynerchuk
Love it. Love it. Bravo.
- [31:07]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Love you. See ya.
- [31:09]
Avery Vaynerchuk
Thank you, everybody.
- [31:10]
Gary Vaynerchuk
If you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention, and thanks for being part of this journey. See you later.