Effective Marketing Strategies For 2025 l On Brand with Donny Deutsch

Summary

The GaryVee Audio Experience

Episode: Effective Marketing Strategies For 2025 l On Brand with Donny Deutsch
Host: Gary Vaynerchuk
Guest Host: Donny Deutsch
Date: August 31, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Gary Vaynerchuk sits down with advertising veteran and former agency owner Donny Deutsch to dissect the future of marketing heading into 2025. Together, they candidly unpack the disconnect between Fortune 500 companies and the rapidly evolving digital landscape, diving deep into attention, organic content, platform strategies, and the cultural and generational shifts that are reshaping how brands connect with consumers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power of the First Second in Content

• Timestamps: 00:00, 13:35
• Gary emphasizes the critical importance of capturing attention in the first second of any social media video, noting that users make lightning-fast decisions when scrolling.
• Quote:

  "The first second of your video on social media is a staggering variable of its chance of being successful."
  — Gary Vaynerchuk [00:00]

• Strategy: The initial second gives hope, but the next 3–4 seconds are crucial for engagement. Visual cues, unexpected sounds, or compelling thumbnails are true differentiators.

2. The Waste of Corporate Meetings and Time

• Timestamps: 01:30–02:39
• Both agree corporate meetings are routinely too long and inefficient.
• Quote:

  "I believe almost every corporate meeting is double the size of what it's needed."
  — Gary Vaynerchuk [02:07]

3. Social Media’s Double Standard for Marketers

• Timestamps: 05:03–07:56
• Gary recounts a frequent scenario: C-suite execs decry social media's societal power but fail to invest in it as a marketing tool.
• Quote:

  "You just told me social media is putting democracy... on its knees. You don't think this sells lipstick?"
  — Gary Vaynerchuk [06:44]

• Organic social media creative is now, by far, the most important skill in marketing, yet it remains undervalued at traditional companies.

4. Shift From Traditional to Organic Social

• Timestamps: 07:56–09:26
• Donny and Gary reminisce about the old agency model—TV first, digital last—compared to today's reality where granular, organic content comes first.
• Gary: “Is now the most important skill set and variable in all of marketing.” [07:35]
• They stress that attention has shifted, the “big idea” still matters, but where that idea is distributed has flipped.

5. Organic Social: Platforms, Algorithms, and Meritocracy

• Timestamps: 11:39–13:35, 17:39–18:22
• Every major platform now rewards quality content, regardless of the creator's prior following—a true meritocracy.
• Quote:

  "Your first piece of content could literally reach millions of people if it hit with the audience."
  — Gary Vaynerchuk [10:54]

• Seven major platforms matter (Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube Shorts, Snapchat, LinkedIn).
• The iPhone is the new TV, with its seven “channels”; winning on each requires the right strategy and story.

6. Practical Social Media Advice

• Timestamps: 14:12–16:02, 21:22–22:02
• Gary provides actionable tips:
  • First second must be visually or emotionally arresting.
  • Content Targeting: Create for micro-cohorts, not broad demos. “Consumer segmentation, but not 18–35. That’s ludicrous.”
  • Algorithm Tactics: Use carousels, trending sounds, foster engagement by prompting Q&A within your community.
• Quote:

  "For the first time in marketing history, the creative is creating the reach."
  — Gary Vaynerchuk [27:16]

7. Disconnection in Corporate Marketing

• Timestamps: 19:07–25:22
• Legacy brands and major agencies focus on legacy metrics, fake numbers, and “vanilla Frankenstein” creative; upstarts and small players outmaneuver them.
• Fake Impressions: Major PR firms sell “impressions” that have little real value.
• Upstarts (Logan Paul’s Prime, Poppy, Dr. Becky) use these new rules and often outpace legacy brands.

8. The Opportunity for Individuals and Small Brands

• Timestamps: 31:08–32:10
• Enormous white space for nimble brands: organic social gives any entrepreneur the same weapons as the giants.
• Quote:

  "You can actually fight with the biggest companies in the world. If you start a pretzel brand or a peanut butter or a deodorant, your fighting chance is so much stronger."
  — Gary Vaynerchuk [31:49]

9. Authenticity is Non-Negotiable

• Timestamps: 31:54–32:10
• Younger audiences, especially Gen Z, sniff out inauthentic brand behaviors immediately. Don’t try to copy; be yourself.

10. Generational and Cultural Change

• Timestamps: 34:12–36:05
• Discussion pivots to the entitlement of younger generations, especially young men, and the role of parenting, accountability, and hunger in success.
• Excellence now is less about privilege and more about adaptability, empathy, and authentic drive.

11. The Importance of Good Parenting and Growing Up Hungry

• Timestamps: 36:31–41:20
• Both reflect on childhoods, earning success, and instilling principles in their children. Gary credits his immigrant upbringing, mother’s tough love, and father’s insistence on honesty for building his work ethic and character.
• Memorable Story:

  Gary recounts being caught by his father for inflating his sales numbers in their family liquor store, learning that “your word is bond and no embellishing.” [40:29]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Social Media Meritocracy:

  “Now it’s a complete meritocracy. … BMW today does not have the same power it used to with money. If you’re good at making content on social… you can win.”
  — Gary Vaynerchuk [27:44]

• On Old vs. New Advertising:

  “Current Fortune 500 advertising looks like vanilla Frankenstein. It has all these particles that are disjointed and they don’t really understand…”
  — Gary Vaynerchuk [16:43] “And the ones that tell the best stories win forever and ever.”
  — Donny Deutsch [18:19]

• On Awards and Agency Motivation:

  “When I would see somebody in my office going through awards books…what the fuck are you doing? What am I doing for you? It’s not what I’m doing for me.”
  — Donny Deutsch [18:31]

• On Parenting:

  “You can’t send your kid to Africa to build a school and think they’re gonna have gratitude and humility. All you can do is raise kids that have good principles and you continue to remind them that it’s not their money.”
  — Gary Vaynerchuk [37:21]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | Why the first second in social content matters | | 02:07 | Corporate meetings waste time and resources | | 06:44 | C-suite hypocrisy: Social as threat vs. opportunity | | 07:12 | Defining organic social creative | | 10:54 | Social media's new meritocracy | | 13:35 | Why the first second and hook are make-or-break | | 17:39 | The “seven channels” on iPhone parallel TV’s early days | | 19:07 | The rise of “vanilla Frankenstein” creativity in agencies | | 21:22 | Micro-targeting: Creating for cohorts, not generic demos | | 27:16 | “Creative is creating the reach” — algorithm and engagement | | 31:49 | Leveling the playing field for individuals and upstarts | | 32:33 | Advice to Fortune 500s: Change or be disrupted | | 34:12 | Generational shifts and entitlement | | 36:31 | Parenting, privilege, and raising driven kids | | 40:29 | Gary’s liquor store story: honesty in business |

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Episode Tone and Dynamics

• Energetic, candid, and irreverent: Gary and Donny share a trusted rapport, blending humor with hard-hitting insights and plenty of f-bombs.
• Nostalgic but forward-looking: Both reflect on “old school” ad days and meeting culture, contrasting it with today’s dynamic social landscape.
• Humility and empathy: Gary shares personal stories about upbringing and values, revealing the heart behind his hustle.

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Summary

For anyone looking to understand where marketing and brand building are headed in 2025 and beyond, this episode is both a tactical playbook and an inspiring call to arms. The clear message: "day trading attention"—agile, authentic, and truly audience-first creative—wins in a channel-agnostic world where the first second on a phone screen could make you a household name. Ignore these lessons at your peril whether you're a new entrepreneur or a Fortune 500 Goliath.

Final Word:
“Stay authentic, obsess the first second, tell stories that matter, and never bore your audience—or yourself.”

Transcript

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The first second of your video on social media is a staggering variable of its chance of being successful. First second, because as you know, so.

[Donnie Deutsch]

What then has to happen? Because in a second nothing can really be accomplished.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It seems like not. But tonight when you just happen to like look through your phone, pay attention for a second, be like, yeah, like a second or two. I got the, like, I don't care, I don't care. I don't care. Oh, pretty person. I stop. Oh, loud noise. Oh, visual. The thumbnail. Like you'd be surprised. It's real strategy. But then the next three to four seconds really matter because you're really like that first second gives you 100th of a hope. And then the next three, four seconds really can either hook them or not.

[Donnie Deutsch]

I'm here with one of the smartest guys in the room, whatever room he's in. Gary Vaynerchuk is kind of a legend at this point. He is the CEO of VaynerMedia, he's the chairman of Vayner X. He's probably, I would say, the leading mind on what the fuck is going to happen next. I think I just kind of summed it up. He's got something like 45 million followers across his platforms, 300 million impressions every month. He's got a new book out, it'll be a bestseller. Just about every one of his seven books has been a bestseller. This is the seventh day trading Attention how to actually build Brand and sales. A new social media world. As an old media world guy, I'm excited to talk to him. Gary, how you doing, my friend?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'm well, brother. You look great.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Thank you. I'm trying 67. It's no joke.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You really look.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Thank you, thank you. Meanwhile, let's talk the.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What are you giving up? What are you giving people? Stress instead of taking.

[Donnie Deutsch]

I don't. You know what it is? I'm not in the agency business anymore. That's why I don't, I don't have to sit those three and a half hour client meetings when I know how they're going to end in 90 seconds and I want to blow my fucking brains out.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know, I literally was just in a meeting two hours ago and said to a client, the reason I usually leave meetings is if I already know the outcome, what am I doing doing here?

[Donnie Deutsch]

And you always do. And by the way, meetings that like, they're like particles and atoms every. I love when they schedule meetings two hours. If you scheduled it for 15 minutes, not only would you save an hour and 45 minutes you'd probably get better, faster, more linear thinking.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Oh, my man, we are really alive. I've always loved you, but, boy, does that one hit. I really believe, actually just to give people value here. I genuinely actually believe this without hyperbole. I believe almost every corporate meeting is double the size of what it's needed.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Time and people and time and people.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

By the way, it's why I have a lot of. I do a ton of 15.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And in. In many environments, including my own career for a long time. Those were 30s. And look, when you're trying to accomplish things, to get things done, that adds up in a very nice way.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Let's talk about the most important thing first. What do we think about the jets pick last night?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I was pumped. You know, last night was a tricky night. The Knicks lost to the Sixers, so it was a little grumpy in that. But, you know, I have a sports agency, Vayner Sports, and we. We recruited Olu for two and a half years. So we know the kid inside out. I think he's really good. I'm super pumped with.

[Donnie Deutsch]

That's great. That's great. One other just quick political thing, because we're not gonna talk politics, but you were born in Belarus. You immigrated over here in three years. And just thoughts on what's going on in the Ukraine or just from a guy who's just kind of comes from that region, you know?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Bro, you know what's so crazy? Like, I was a really poor student, rare, by the way, for immigrants coming to the US during the 80s in that era. But I was always very good at history. I got really good grades in it. By far my best grades besides gym class. I was a gym class hero. And.

[Donnie Deutsch]

By the way, they didn't even give grades in Jim. It was like pass or fail.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Hold on. Get it. Give me this, please, if you don't mind. No, can you grab it? It's the top one. I'm going to show you. I know this is probably audio.

[Donnie Deutsch]

No, no, it's video also. It's video also.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Nope. Nope. On the other wall. The other one closer. Nope. There you go. That one. Top one. Bring it. Yeah, I need this. This is very important. I'm sorry, everyone who's listening, but I just grabbed my report card from high school.

[Donnie Deutsch]

That's. Jesus.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It's a really small print, but I'm going to show you.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Okay.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

There's only four A's on the report card in four years of high school. And they were all.

[Donnie Deutsch]

That's amazing. Well, good for you. My friend, that's something to be proud of. I love that you still have the reporter. You should be proud of it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So, anyway, to answer your question, look, the world has always been complicated. Unfortunately, one of the man, when I tell you I love humans, I love man. I love man. I love humans. I really do. You've gotten to know me through the years. I really like people.

[Donnie Deutsch]

You care.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I like them. But unfortunately, it's been proven over time that humans do have an incredible tribalism and are deeply ingrained in trying to find ways to not like each other. Gender, race, religion. I mean, even now, what's going on? Generational warfare. Like, you and I didn't grow up in an era where boomers hated Gen Z to make Gen Z and boomers go at each other. The world has a very good way of getting us to go against each other. And I like it when it's silly like the Knicks and Sixers and I hate all my Philly friends for a couple weeks.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah, that's good stuff.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's silly stuff. That's, you know, that's fun banter, but unfortunately, people take that to real life stuff. And so what's going on? I mean, you have incredible wants and needs of a small group of individuals to recreate empires, to find reasons to hate, all grounded in deep insecurity. And it's really too bad. And to segue into what I know we're about to talk about. It happened twice again today, and it happened 12 times this week. You go into these big meetings. You and I were fortunate when we were running, you know, when you ran your agency, where I'm at now, most of the meetings you're gonna have are with CEOs and CMOs and like, it's the bigwigs, right? You're in a lot of meetings, but you're in a lot of meetings with the bigwigs. And when I tell you, and a lot of them become your friends, just like through your career. And, you know, the first five, ten minutes, as you get the, you know, back to wasting time in meetings, people settle in and right away they're going into the politics of everything. Of course, that's the era we're in. It's more like the 60s. But it's funny, I have these CEOs and CEOs of the biggest Fortune 500 companies in the world spend the first five minutes as they put, you know, milk in their coffee, talking about how, God, we, you know, TikTok should be banned, or, you know, social media, or like, you know, all this stuff of like the power of Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg this, or Elon Musk this. The power of changing people's perception on things, which is what marketing in comms is. So the first five minutes, Donnie, they tell me that these platforms are too powerful, must be regulated or shut down. And I see you know where I'm going. And then we go into the meeting and they're like, ah, Gary, I don't know if we should be investing that much into social media. I'm like, you just told me that social media is putting the democracy of America, one of the most powerful things in the world, on its knees. You don't think this sells lipstick?

[Donnie Deutsch]

That's amazing. They still.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And that. And I will say this only because it's like an honor to say it on your show, given your career, I'm even not surprised. But it is very clear as we sit here today together, organic social media. Creative Organic social media. Creative defined.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Organic. You're talking about what. When you people are posting their own stuff that they created, you know, but.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Coca Cola and BMW and Donnie Deutsch and Gary Vaynerchuk and the Knicks. The post, the organic creative.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Not with paid amplification like you and I grew up with, with where you make a good 30 second spot, then you pay.

[Donnie Deutsch]

That will drive content, will drive it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Is now the most important skill set and variable in all of marketing. And when I tell you on a good day, Donnie at a, at a church in Dwight at an Audi, at a pick any of them Toyota on a good day. It's the 25th most important thing that these companies think about.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Incredible.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And that I'm actually shocked, you know.

[Donnie Deutsch]

I'm out of the business because to me it's almost such obvious price of entry at this point. Like I always used to think, I think back to presentations I used to give. And you'd start with, you know, the strategy and everything and then you'd show the big TV campaign, then you go into newspaper and at the very end it's like, okay, here's the source. And I would assume it's completely opposite at this point. Like if I was running an agency, I would always start with the granular, with the. So I mean, because that's just the fucking world.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, but you were also good at what you did. Meaning, you know, you and I, even though we ended up having different chapters in our careers on the Madison Avenue game, I believe that our. This is why I think we've always kind of intuitively. And then we got to know each Other more. We just care about where the attention.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like when I think back to the big Idea, right. That's actually where we first.

[Donnie Deutsch]

That's where you was. Was that your first TV appearance? Big idea.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes.

[Donnie Deutsch]

I love. Very proud of that. I'm proud of that. That's a feather. My cat.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I was very honored to be on that. That when we, you know, that I remember watching from afar and I'm like, this guy gets it. Like, he was smart enough to be on this platform. That's the, that's where all the business attention was. And, and you weren't an ad. You were the actual content. It's funny. One of the things that you would get a kick out of, people say to me, you know, at these stages, at Cannes Lions, at all this stuff or industry stuff. Gary, I get it. I get it. But man, people still watch sports, bro. On tv. You watch sports, Gary. I'm like. I'm like. You're right, I do. I'm like. But I don't watch the commercials.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think the super bowl is the most underpriced ad in marketing right now.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Today, because it's the only fucking place where people lean into the advertising. And beyond the obvious exponential that you get in everything, it's. It's literally. It's the day America not only doesn't turn away from advertising, leans into advertising. It's the only time it happens. And by the way, it's bullshit as far as the award shows and everything else. Completely different. Completely different.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, that's right. The. The. The best ad in. In television is the Super Bowl. The worst ad is the Grammys, the Oscars, and the AFC and NFC Championship game.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah. Because you're. You're paying. You're paying, you know, not super bowl dollars, but second. Second best of super bowl dollars. And it's being consumed like an ad on any other day. Like you're watching csi.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's right. Yeah, that's right. And so, you know, it's, It's. You know, these are the things. But what's interesting is everybody is really missing what you. And I think what came intuitive to us, which is first you have to know where the attention is and are you able to even get it right? The reason organic social, just to get very nerdy on anybody who's into this social changed three years ago. It used to be like email marketing when I was building. Get as many people to follow you as possible, like I did, and then a percentage of them would see it.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Now, Donnie, you actually, this might get you pumped. You might have to decide to get crazy and get 8 billion people to know who you are and get like you would be. You would crush the new social media.

[Donnie Deutsch]

All right, talk to me about it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'll tell you why. If you never even created a social media account for the last 15 years, even though I've been screaming about it, tomorrow, you create an account, and your first piece of content could literally reach millions of people if it hit with the audience.

[Donnie Deutsch]

So how does that ask you a question? Because I am on social media. Not to your extent, but I have a nice following. And some of my stuff just connects, you know, and all of a sudden I'll get, you know, 50,000 likes, and other times it'll be, you know, 1 20th of that. And I. And it's not. And I always go, okay, is this content? That much is. I think people are always looking for a secret sauce formula. You basically saying there isn't. It's all the plays.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The thing. What. What I would say. Is there? No, there is. I mean, I. By the way, that's the main reason I.

[Donnie Deutsch]

That's the book.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Right. There's real strategy behind it. But, like, look, I think nobody's been. I'm not sure how many humans on earth were more pot committed for the last 15 years to figure this thing out.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And every day I miss on things that I would have thought I would have hit on. So it's humbling.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Which is amazing. Which is a great way to play a game. It's like. It's like golf, Right?

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think of social media.

[Donnie Deutsch]

It's. Great analogy. Great analogy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Right.

[Donnie Deutsch]

You play. You're playing against yourself. Yeah. And it's a. And it's a tough game, and you.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Think you have a beat.

[Donnie Deutsch]

You hit an amazing shot down the fairway, and then you're in the fucking rough and you're all fucked up. Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know, I view myself as like a top golfer in the world that didn't make the cut at the Masters because I had a bad week. Right, right. Like it, you know, it is humbling. That being said, of course, people stumble into luck, of virality, and things of that nature. But just to take a step back before I go into detail, for every marketer, which I know a lot of will listen to this, it's really cool that there's so much science and art behind being great about this. And most people mail it in as matching luggage to their campaign. And so my framework that we believe in is pack platforms and culture. So if you don't understand. There's seven or so major social media platforms, right? Facebook and Instagram, TikTok YouTube shorts. TikTok for now. We'll see what happens here. YouTube shorts, Snapchat, LinkedIn is a place where you could go bananas, right? And all of these platforms now have for your pages just like TikTok did. Meaning their algorithms are now extremely over indexing towards the individual merit of the individual piece of content. Let me give you one immediately, Donnie. I think this is gonna change your social media game. I am surprised. But I'm gonna really pushing. It's going to be such an aha for you and everyone who's listening. The first second of your video on social media is a staggering variable of its chance of being successful. First, second. Because as you know.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah, yeah. So what then has to happen? It had. Because in a second nothing can really be accomplished.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It seems. It seems like not. But tonight when you just happen to like look through your phone, right. Pay attention for a second. Be like, yeah, like a second or two. I got the like, I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. Pretty person. I stop. Oh, loud noise. Oh, visual. The thumbnail.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like you'd be surprised. It's real strategy. It's, you know. But then the next three to four seconds really matter because you're really like that first second gives you a hundredth of a hope. And then the next three, four seconds really can either hook them or not.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah. So what gives tips for somebody out there. So what are the important. And there's no simple formula. But first second. First four seconds. Simplicity.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'll give you one right now. I'll just go through it right now in my phone on the spot because it's fun doing this with you. Like really being a practitioner. I'm just opening my Instagram, for example right now and like the first thing is like maybe a trade that something just happened. Sources. The 49ers have listened to calls for Deebo Sam. Okay, so now like that blue update.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like when I opened it, my eye went right there. The blue. Like this. You're gonna love this. It's. You know what's so funny? When people really listen to me in advertising, like the OGs that still in the game. Like, you know, it's funny, they. Let's say very senior people coming from very big companies that are coming here for the first time. A lot of them come with cynicism be like, let me see if this is all right.

[Donnie Deutsch]

And they're like, I Start to open.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

For an hour and they're like, wait a minute. This feels like very tried and true. I'm like, it is.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. Like, when I look at this, I imagine myself in the 1957, like in Madison Avenue going over someone saying, move that because it's not going to hit in the New York Post tomorrow because you need up. When they turn it, you got to stop.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It's print advertising.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah. The initial, the first second is print advertising. That's a great analogy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And so more like the way this update is.

[Donnie Deutsch]

By the way, you.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

If.

[Donnie Deutsch]

If that didn't have that word update in there, you would just. It would just be another thing. And you think, oh, maybe there's something new. I don't know about the NERs.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Ironically, this video is going to be of me in a second. Here we go. Yep. The post yesterday. Vine question. Right. So it starts with Elon's. Elon's post yesterday. Elon's post.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Those are the first words. That wasn't even me. I was on someone else's podcast. They did a good job. Elon's post yesterday.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Wow.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Right. This goes back to jingle copywriting.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

For radio.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah. Or. Or the burst in the ad that. It's just. We got to get you the first thing that you see, Donnie.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It's really wild. The only thing that's changed is the mediums. And the. And what ended up happening is now you have an entire industry at the Droga Fives, at the Wyden Kennedys, at the Crispin Porters. They're. They're derivatives of your early era and obviously the OG that we saw in Madman. And they're in this half pregnant environment of like half Mad Men era, half overvaluing. Big data. Don't even know what.

[Donnie Deutsch]

They don't even know what the fuck big data is. That's the amazing thing in analytics. Yeah. What the fuck are you talking about?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What's. You'll. You'll appreciate this analogy. I think right now, current Fortune 500 advertising looks like vanilla Frankenstein. I call it vanilla Frankenstein because it has all these particles that are disjointed and they don't really understand because it's some of its new tech, some of it's yet like old school. They work. Everything's got to be on brand, which means it's the opinion of three people in a boardroom, and it's vanilla. If you're going to do TV first. When Toyota does its brand positioning. Toyota's current brand positioning, Donnie, is. Let's Go places, Right. That means, as you know, because you did this for a living and I've done it for a living, that means they can actually come up with anything, because in theory, let's Go places can be physically anything.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Right? Right. Let's go places. You can be anything. And that's the good news and the bad news about that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Bingo. And so it's all vanilla. So anyway, what my thesis that I'm putting on the industry is, look, there's seven. This is now the television, right?

[Donnie Deutsch]

Absolutely.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Not the radio. Right, the television.

[Donnie Deutsch]

He's holding up his iPhone. Okay, for those.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And on the iPhone, there are seven channels that matter, just like pre cable.

[Donnie Deutsch]

There was seven. There were seven. It was actually. That's ironic. Wow, what a great little tidbit factoid that we're in the same exact place. Seven fucking channels.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And the job of all of us, Donnie Deutsch and Gary Vaynerchuk currently, right this minute, are actually trying to be Lucille Ball and Bob Hope. Like as a personality, I'd like to be big on abc, NBC, cbs, and. And the brands are trying to do what Procter and Gamble did, which is integrate commercials in formula. And that's it.

[Donnie Deutsch]

And the ones that tell the best stories win forever and ever.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But the problem is Madison Avenue. Current agencies, they tell stories in the format of a commercial for PR or for an award at camp.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Can I just say this? When I was in the business, I always said, fuck awards. I like, I used to go to clients, say, you're not going to win awards here. The only thing I care about is fe or whatever, you know, something that's going to affect me, right? And when I would see somebody in my office going through awards books, at the time they used to put out work, I go, what the fuck are you doing? What are you like, I'm going to go client. Look at this creative award. No, no, what am I doing for you? It's not what I'm doing for me.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's because you were a businessman and you knew if their business was good, that'd be good for your business. But as you know, for creatives, if they win an award, they Then another agency wants to hire.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah, yes, yes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Right. So. But my big thing is the problem now is the biggest companies in the world are losing market share because they keep overinvesting in traditional creative and fake media reporting impressions. You know this. The PR companies, I mean, look, one of the companies I most admire, Edelman, right? Independent, global, big, sure. But like, you know, the, the Weber, Shamwicks, the Edelman, they sell PR impressions. They're fake numbers.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Just because you got to mention in a newspaper you didn't get 28 billion.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Impressions impressions you got, your name showed up in a newspaper.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

They take the circulation of a newspaper and multiply it by 40,000 in case somebody drops it at a bus stop.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

As if anyone even saw your mention in page 19 of a newspaper.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What is even a newspaper?

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. That's amazing.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So anyway, I think that marketing has gone from lots of smart thinking by lots of smart people. I would call it mutual fund buying. Like if you have an investor, like you do a lot of thinking, you get to a presentation, you make a decision. And now I think it's day trading. Like you're buying by the nanosecond.

[Donnie Deutsch]

So let's go back to some new, some news. You can use this. We started doing some practical stuff. So you're. I'm somebody, I'm starting a new business or whatever reason I want to, I want to build my personal brand. I want to what? And I now I know, okay, I'm supposed to go on Tik Tok. I'm supposed to go here. I'm supposed to go here. Now you've got every human being in the world playing in the same swimming pool. And so what are the smart guys do to win?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

They create cohorts. They know you're going to love this seg consumer segmentation. But not 18 to 35. That's ludicrous. More like, like let's talk about like talk about how I do it. I know that a certain group I always want to make content for are 22 to 25 year old men and women just getting out of college because I've come to learn through my journeys, very anxious years.

[Donnie Deutsch]

And I'm going to say it probably skews 65% met out of that group.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, it's actually, it's exactly okay. Very, very impossible. So for me, I know I'm making. So if I'm going to make a video, I know I'm going to talk about their dynamics with their parents. Maybe hey kids, get off the parents payroll because if you don't want your parents to have say in your life at 25, the only reason they have say is because they're giving you money. And the second you don't take money from them, you don't have to actually answer to them anymore because you're a grown up. But as long as you're taking money from mom and dad, they Have a little more say in your life because you don't want to upset them, because you don't want that faucet to stop. Because I knew who I was making that video for. I. That video is going to have a better chance of being successful because I'm not just trying to make a video for everyone that was made for that person.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Oh, wait, they call that targeting. Back when I grew up, you know, but.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But unlike when it was television, you would buy MASH because. Or Seinfeld or Dallas.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Now you're creating the content based on the audience for data.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So much better. You know, like, you know, and now you can target gender, race. It's unbelievable how you can make this stuff. And if you come from that. But then the other thing that happens is so for anybody who's listening, if you're a flower shop, you can literally run $30 on meta Facebook or Instagram on a three on a five mile radius of your store with your content. Five mile radius. So now you're doing direct mail plus television for the cost of nothing, Donnie. It's just nothing. And you post it. Now here's where it gets fun. It's the reverse of the way we grew up, Donny. You post it and the algorithm will take it and it will go. You posted it organically. If it goes well, then you pour money on it. So if you're a local business, you may want to pour money on it right away. Because look, if you have a great flowers video and you're in Short Hills, New Jersey, but everybody who's watching it is in California, Arkansas, your business is not conducive to getting that business right. You may want to do the paid media local, but if you're someone who's just trying to build brand, you have a dot com and you're selling all over the world your chocolate bar, well, you're just posting it. And if the seventh one does well, then you're taking your media dollars and you're amplifying it.

[Donnie Deutsch]

What percentage of clients that come in today have any idea about this when they walk in the door? I mean, they know. They know social media and this and that I got. But how many, what percent of clients actually understand?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You'll appreciate this. This is why I wrote the book. This time. We're in a crazy place. And this is going to make sense to you because I know you pay attention in the Fortune 500 ecosystem. Truly Fortune 500. Where? Where? Deutsche and Vayner, right? Zero.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah. Amazing.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Because they're KPIs, they're MMMs, they're MMAs. All the reporting, all the justification, none of it the systems. Right.

[Donnie Deutsch]

It's the, it's the, it's the upstarts that are, that are have it weaved into their formula.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'm breaking down for you from the Fortune 5001 to the Fortune 5000. Call that private equity back businesses, things of that nature. Five percent, it should be way higher. That set is missing the mark in the venture capital backed CPG direct to consumer businesses, 30%. That's why you see things like Poppy. That's why you see the Logan Paul and KSI prime energy drink. I'm sure there's been things with your circles people throw at you and be like, do you know this brand? Like these. Or personality Dr. Becky. Like these things that people are seeing that are hitting and then the crew that most knows it, which is wild, is individual human beings whether they're building it for their personal brand or they're very small.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Oh yeah, I would, I would go to my 16 year old daughter if I asked her how to do like if like okay, I'm not sure what I'm doing here. How do I do this?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And will show Crush is on the sea Impact culture. She knows what's happening. She's like dad, this Swedish candy store downtown is killing it. Or Ralph Lauren's, you know Mocha Mocha is like or the Cronut or, or Mad Happy is a hot hoodie. Like she'll know culture. What she won't know is that on Instagram right now it's better to post a two post carousel than just posting a video.

[Donnie Deutsch]

What's it to what, What's a two post carousel?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know when you post on Instagram and like there's multiple pictures or videos with.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yes, yes. Yeah. Okay.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What she won't know is I'll show you my account. You know, you look at my account, my grid and it looks like schizophrenia.

[Donnie Deutsch]

But that's what you, this is what.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Drives everyone crazy about me from the outside that doesn't know anything about social media. They think that this is off brand.

[Donnie Deutsch]

It's all, no, that's brand. That's your brand because that's where you're going to the, all these different places and you do, you, you are sometimes you're a psychologist, sometimes you're a business consultant, sometimes you're just a sports fan and all the above. You know that's right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What I also know is that 90% of the content is being. 96% of the content is being consumed in the grid individually, not people going to my profile and consuming grid.

[Donnie Deutsch]

That's really interesting. Yeah. What was that? What movie was that from? Aha.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Let me give you this. So like this. I also know that I have to use my. A trending sound on Instagram and the carousel has multiple quotes because it will show up. I know, I know that me talking about a green screen of something because that picture went crazy from the Knicks game. So I talk over it. Right. This format does well versus just posting the picture. I know this one does well because I'm asking people to ask questions and answer questions. Watch this data. Donnie, you're gonna love this. This is a post that I've created recently that's really working. Ask one group to ask a question, ask the other group in my community to answer it. This post has 2,298 responses. The post prior. The post prior to it has 313.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Right, right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That people engaging with it shows the algorithm that there's interest, which will show it to more people. You're gonna love this one. For the first time in marketing history, the creative is creating the reach.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yes, yes. That's well put. That's well put.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I mean, you know, you know, for you and I, that's like.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah, yeah, it's a. It's really dry. You know, there's an irony because to the average outside observer of quote marketing and selling, they would probably say, oh, I think it's the reverse now. It's being driven by the system in the pipes and that it's basically everything is technology now and everything is. Is the media. The media is driving the content. And ironically, more than ever, it's the content driving, driving the media.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

As you know, somebody had to say yes to the Donny Deutsch. Yes, Somebody had to buy. You know, you had Donnie Deutsch when you were running it. You had to buy the media to get that 30 second video of a big client of yours commercial. You were actually dictating it. Now it's a complete meritocracy. And everybody wants to talk about Mark Zuckerberg being the wizard of Oz or China manipulating the kids. It's a fucking meritocracy. People don't want to hear it. Listen, I was born in a communist country. I don't put anything past world powers, not America, not Russia, not China. But what people don't understand, taking it away from politics in the mundane. BMW today does not have the same power it used to with money. Right? Now, if you're good at making content on social, if you understand the principles, if you understand the first. Second, if you understand the copy, if you understand the tactics, if you understand the platforms. I'll give you, I'll give you one right off the presses. TikTok, excuse me, Snapchat has a part of Snapchat that is more similar to TikTok. Okay. I'm going to sign into my Snapchat because I would just want you to see it. So there's a part of Snapchat, right, that is called Spotlight, that acts more like TikTok and Instagram.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Right, Right, right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The organic reach on it is exploding these couple weeks because a lot of kids are starting to get nervous that TikTok is going to go away and they need a new home. They're starting to hang out at Snapchat and get used to it.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Will you explain to young people that it's a quarter of a trillion dollar business. TikTok is, is not going away. It will just be. There's too much money. There's too much American money, there's too much Chinese money. It will just be in a different, different hands.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Look, I will say this. It's. It went away in India. I, I, personally, Donnie, I'm going to take a different tack. I actually don't think China will if. I don't think China's going to allow by dance to sell it in America. Really? I think they want.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Interesting.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I believe it's in China's interest to create the social unrest in America.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Of course it is. That's. Well, that's the whole issue. Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, guess what.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

For China, $1 trillion is a pimple on the.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah, no, I guess you're right. I stand corrected. I stand correct.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know what I mean? I could be wrong. We'll see how.

[Donnie Deutsch]

No, that's exact. By the way. That's exactly what, as a geo, As a geopolitical enemy, they should be doing. I mean, it sounds sleazy, but that's what we do. We're. It's us against them. And, and they're like, oh, wow, we've gotten into the minds where. We have in the. We get into the minds of young people. We're going to. Maybe we want to incite problems. So we're going to give 50 times more videos about Hamas than we are about Israel and get everybody going.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And listen, as you can imagine, this starts getting into territory that, like, for over a bottle of wine, you and I, I don't think people, People jump on headlines. And especially in this political environment, I don't think people are paying attention to what's happening on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook. And these are us based, by the way. That's the biggest danger of this whole thing. As someone who's born in a country, communist country, I tell my dear American friends that I'm an American. It's this, you know, historical truth. This is a slippery slope. First you ban something that's a foreign entity that's bad for America, and then you ban something in America that's bad for America.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Listen, you, you, you and I have been around the block enough to know, like, they forget about the briefcase that had the names of all the communists inside of America.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And the Trump. Right. They forget, you know, we're not gonna.

[Donnie Deutsch]

You and I could spend 97 hours on the politics of all this.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

97 hours. But I would say this because I know with us two on this, who's showing up for here? Let me say this for the marketers and for the entrepreneurs. For the entrepreneurs. Good news. The companies that Donnie and I have worked for and currently work for are missing the mark. They really genuinely are. You know, we're. We've done a great job and built our company, but we're still very small in the marketing ecosystem of a publicist and Omnicom and the holding companies. There are ungodly amounts of money being thrown directly in the trash by the biggest companies in the world. And so for the kids that are listening, this is the hugest opportunity ever, because you can actually fight with the biggest companies in the world. If you start a pretzel brand or a peanut butter or a deodorant, your fighting chance is so much stronger.

[Donnie Deutsch]

There was a complete barrier to entry. One thing that's so important that you talk about a lot that young people have done is authenticity. You know, you can't say, oh, this one's doing it that way. So that's the way to do it. That is, I think, more of the sniff test now than anything else.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

They smell it out like, you're not going to win, by the way, it's not fun to not be your authentic self. It's stressful, it's boring, it's not sustainable. You're absolutely right. So there's that. And then for the Fortune 500 CMOs or CEOs or the board members or C suite, look, the activist investors, you know, this, you know, big business land, the activist investors, they're going to figure this out pretty soon.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That most of the biggest companies are just wasting 90 cents on the dollar and they're going to come in and they're going to swoop in. And so I tell all the Fortune 500 CEOs and CMOs and I talk to them constantly. I'm like, you better fix this before it gets fixed for you.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah. What's the reaction to that?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Usually, you know, Donnie, I think you'll understand this because I know, I, I know obviously we didn't, we didn't cross paths at the same time, but this is what a lot of people revered about you as well. I think when you have the luxury of shooting it straight, that's what they.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Want because they don't get it anywhere else. That is the number one thing. They want someone to be honest with them.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think, I think a lot of the friendships you made and the ones I'm forming now, they knew we were right back. They knew you were right back then and they know that I'm right now. But they realize their system can't change. I met with 2, 2 people retiring from two of the five biggest CPG companies in the world this week. Separate companies. They don't know each other. They're both in their last six months. For years they would, I didn't really, I didn't know either. For years they told me they wouldn't even consider working with me because it seemed too crazy. This, that and the other thing. And they're like, it's so ironic, isn't it now, Gary, that I'm here in this office with you because I'm asking you for help for my next chapter because now I need it to actually work.

[Donnie Deutsch]

It's not just line items anymore. And for the next board meeting and I, I don't have the patience to explain to these 90 year old board members why we're moving all of our money in this way. So. And now, now it's got to work. That's amazing. That's great.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

When merit takes over, people go to social media. When politics of corporate America take over, people do television and billboards.

[Donnie Deutsch]

You've been a real advocate. You talked about young people, particularly young men. There's a lot, so many, so much data and study today about the disenfranchised trend, young men and all, how things are stacked against them. My good friend Scott Galloway just wrote a book about how the transfer of wealth going in the wrong direction in her. What's your fear? Give me your, give me the optimistic side of what you're seeing with young people.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The optimistic start side is very optimistic, but it starts with incredible accountability. There is not a capable young man and or woman, on earth, in the world we now live in, where there's less barriers stopping you from what you want than ever that won't get there on Earth. Donnie, the biggest issue with young men, if I'm gonna stay in the pocket of your question, especially in America, is they're entitled as fuck. Yeah, brother. I see killer 25 year old guys who are Hispanic, black, white, Asian Indian crushing right now, Donnie. But they all look the same. Their mommy and daddy didn't make it so goddamn easy for them.

[Donnie Deutsch]

We had the luxury, we had the luxury of being hungry, you know, 100%.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And even if we had like, you know, we grew up in an era where even if your parents had it solid, they made people, they made you. They were.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah, I grew up very comfortable. My parents didn't give me shit. I mean, they gave me a great education, access to a great education. And you know, then they were like, figure it out.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know, because they were smart enough to know that even if they were going to hook it up, if they just gave it to you. Like, remember in our era people borrowed money from parents.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah, borrowed, yeah, yeah, right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That was a very common thing. Right? You would borrow, you know, you'd get married and you'd borrow a little money to get an apartment and, and you'd pay your parents back.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That is a form, you know, that's an incredibly foreign concept.

[Donnie Deutsch]

That doesn't exist. That doesn't exist. I wouldn't think to do it. So how do you do? So what's the talk to you as a dad now? So now how devoted you are to your kids. I've. I'm going to give myself a solid A minus as the dad. And where I, where I don't get an A is because my kids are, I have daughters, they're entitled and I, they're great kids. They. But they've grown up a certain way and I don't know how to put some of that toothpaste back in the toothpaste back in the.2.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, that's it. Look, I say to all my friends, and I've gotten very fortunate. I also live in an environment where my. I mean, I came to this country, lived in a studio apartment in Queens with seven family members. Now I go to courtside at Nick Gates. I mean, that is a.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Well, I had the pleasure of sitting next to you.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes, that's right.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Are those your seats or you move around?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I move around.

[Donnie Deutsch]

I'll see you, I'll see you at game five.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I can't Wait. Boy, I can't wait. I tell all my friends that have been forward especially, you know, you can imagine this will make sense to you. I have so many friends because they know my story and I know theirs. The ones that really, really didn't come from much, as you can imagine. They really struggle with this conversation because they're petrified of it. And I just tell all my friends, I'm like, you can't fake environment. You can't send your kid to Africa to build a school and think they're gonna have gratitude and humility. All you can do is raise kids that have good principles and you continue to remind them that it's not their money. I don't think there's anything else. I think, you know, you want them to be good human being because I.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Start with good human beings. That's your mate. Your main job is to be a good human being. Second job is to do your best in school. We'll go, we'll figure everything else from there.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I say, you know, I have a different thing with my kids. I can't bullshit. I put out 48 million videos that school doesn't matter. Right?

[Donnie Deutsch]

Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

School. I'm like, be self aware. My daughter is annihilating it in school in one of the toughest schools. And. And I'm like so proud of her. I just want them to be honestly, to be frank. I want them to be passionate about something, their life the way I am. And I don't need them to be an entrepreneur. They could be a nonprofit worker, they could be a farmer, they could be a hairdresser, they could be a coin trader. I don't literally happy but please have passion and be doing.

[Donnie Deutsch]

And I think what you're probably teaching them also because it's such a big part of you is, is giving back and caring and like so much of your content. And it's real, it's. I'm going to go back to authentic is. And I. When I see you talking to young people at conferences and you see like you fucking care. You want it to work for them. You're not out there selling shit. You're selling them and them on themselves.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Honestly, you'll appreciate this because I know you're the byproduct of good parenting as well. I got really fucking fortunate in the.

[Donnie Deutsch]

I did too. I was two for two. My, my mom was two for two.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I was two for two. Two. And I got it in the right order. I got my mom hardcore for the first 15 years because my dad was working in the Liquor store, the American drink for himself. So I got all that, all that love, unconditional love. But my mom held me very accountable, like, if I got out of line. See ya.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And then my father. I started working the liquor store every weekend, every summer vacation when I was 14. And I got the hard work, the kind of like. Like, just like the tenacity. And I'll tell you what my dad did. I like giving him this rose. I had so much gift of gab like you, right? That when I was 9 or 10, I could sell any. Forget about kids. I could sell any teacher and parent on anything I wanted to accomplish. And you don't know how to calibrate that power. And what my father did for me at 14, he scared me straight on the following. Your word is bond and no embellishing. I remember this vividly. I want to give my dad some flowers. He caught. We were. We were. We wrapped up the day in the liquor store. 12 hours. I'm 15, 12 hours, 9 to 9 in the store on my feet, no lunch, no breakfast. Like immigrants, right? He told me when I got there, you need to send that. Sell this Kenwood Chardonnay. He told me what to sell, right? He's like, I got to move some cases. This. I'm like, I got you, dad. I was me, right?

[Donnie Deutsch]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

We get in the car at 9, fucking 15, to drive home, close up the store, put the money away. He goes, how many. How many cases did you sell? I'm like, dad, I crushed today. I was like, I sold 29 cases. Okay? Next day, Sunday. I didn't work in the store. It was a Sunday. Monday, my dad in the. I'm sorry.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Tuesday.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I remember vividly Tuesday, not even the Monday, because I didn't see him that morning. And he came home late after I went to sleep Tuesday morning, because as I was going to school and he was going to work, he came up to me and scared me shitless. He goes, when I ask you how many cases, you tell me the real number.

[Donnie Deutsch]

You didn't sell 20, 27.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, no, it wasn't even that close. He said you said 19 and a half. What happened is I was gifted. Gab embellishment, man.

[Donnie Deutsch]

Then you start to believe your own. And you actually probably even talked yourself.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I was trying to trick. Yeah, I just thought it was 20. I didn't care to the detail, and I would always shoot high. It was like, you know, that guy like you. And it really helped me because I do wonder if I didn't have my father and I didn't have him from 14 to 18 when I was still moldable. That would have I been a worse version of myself. A little bit more bullshit a little bit more interesting.

[Donnie Deutsch]

So you got you got from both I got from both those I pinched myself. I just lost my mom a few months ago but I'm gonna let you go because you got your son's basketball game. What a pleasure talking to you. You one of my favorite guys around. You just. You fucking. You just fucking get it. You're just. You're decent soul you're loving what you're doing and it's I get pumped talking to you. The book is day trading attention how to authenticate actually build your brand when sales in the new social media world it is a must read. I don't care if you're a expert or ex expert like me or you're just starting out building something you need this book. This is a must read book. Gary Vee. Stay well my friend. I'll see you at the Nick game, all right?