Episode Overview
Title: Great Marketing Won’t Save a Bad Product (Business & Marketing Chat)
Podcast: The GaryVee Audio Experience
Host: Gary Vaynerchuk
Date: December 16, 2025
This episode is a deep dive into modern branding and marketing—what works, what fails, and why building a truly great product is more crucial than ever. Gary Vaynerchuk is joined by Alison (founder of Poppy) and another moderator to discuss the brutal realities of the marketplace, the art and science of branding, leveraging social media, and why humility and adaptability are essential for business growth. The conversation blends practical lessons with war stories from both entrepreneurship and big-brand experience.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Great Marketing Can’t Save a Bad Product
- [00:00–00:23, 06:44–07:34]
- Gary opens by bluntly stating that strong marketing only exposes a poor product faster:
“All that good marketing does against a bad product is speeding up everyone knowing that your product sucks.” — Gary Vaynerchuk [00:07]
- This motif is echoed later in the episode:
“One of the great mistakes... small businesses make is they may be so good at marketing... but their product sucks.” — Gary [06:47]
- Gary opens by bluntly stating that strong marketing only exposes a poor product faster:
2. Branding That Bites: The Art and Investment of Building Real Brands
-
[00:23–03:52]
- Branding requires true investment, not just visuals or mission statements.
- Gary notes many in business undervalue branding because its impact is often less immediately measurable than sales.
- He points out the high failure rate in brand marketing ("95% of marketing campaigns are very expensive failures" [02:22]).
-
Alison’s Brand Transformation
- [04:14–06:42]
- Alison discusses pivoting from “Mother Beverage” to “Poppy” after Shark Tank feedback.
- She emphasizes the need for both product and brand—Poppy took nine months off for a deep brand exercise:
“A lot of people think building a brand is just... I know my mission... there's so much more... our brand book is like 180 pages…” — Alison [04:38]
- Branding must emotionally connect—“Move it from the head to the heart.”
- Example: Positioning Poppy as "soda for the next generation" and using packaging, color, and nostalgia to drive the point home.
- [04:14–06:42]
3. Sales vs. Branding vs. Marketing
- [00:28–03:52; 07:52–12:31]
- Gary: Branding is “harder... because it’s gray, it’s art. You don’t see it show up right away. There’s a level of trust.”
- Notes the struggle with measuring brand ROI.
- Small businesses often think in the short-term; branding requires long-term consistency.
4. Day Trading Attention: The New Marketing Reality
- [08:25–12:31]
- Gary’s recent book “Day Trading Attention” is about obsessively following where customer attention shifts.
- His career was built on identifying underpriced opportunities—from early Google AdWords to present-day live social selling.
- Urges: “Every person in this room is literally one post away from things being different now...” [11:41]
- Tactical focus: Master the key platforms (Instagram, TikTok, YouTube Shorts, etc.), pay attention to content format, thumbnails, the first three seconds, and more.
- Social media is the “lowest cost, highest upside” for building business today.
5. Mistakes Entrepreneurs Make in Branding
- [13:10–15:31]
- Alison extols taking risks and leaving “20% for cultural relevant moments”—move fast, experiment, and don’t be afraid of unclear ROI.
- Wins come from rapid response, embracing viral moments, and cultural partnerships (“official soda of the Lakers” even without point-of-sale presence).
-
“A really big mistake that brands do is not taking enough risk... take way more risk. At least 20% more.” — Alison [15:23]
6. What Big Brands Do Wrong
- [16:10–21:25]
- Gary critiques legacy paradigms in large corporations:
“Big brands are still running marketing departments based on a book that was written in 1991... It was written in a world where television commercials could penetrate culture.” [16:16]
- The “potential reach vs. actualized reach” fallacy—measuring exposure rather than insight or engagement.
- Many Fortune 500 campaigns suffer from “subjective opinions making trillion dollar decisions” [19:31] and lack humility.
- Instead, brands must chase true relevance and attention, which increasingly lives on social and digital platforms.
- Gary critiques legacy paradigms in large corporations:
7. Balancing Core Community with Scaling Up
- [21:25–27:00]
- Alison details Poppy’s struggle and eventual strategy to expand their target audience from core “Poppy girlies” (Gen Z women) to men and new markets.
- They partnered with male-dominated sports (Lakers, Inner Miami) and gaming influencers but segmented their social media feeds to avoid alienating their base.
- Gary credits the rise of “interest media” (algorithmic delivery based on content, not followers) and how detailed platform knowledge gives brands new options.
8. (Not) Learning from the Big Guys
- [27:00–31:08]
- Gary insists 0–100 million startups shouldn’t copy Fortune 500s—they have different resources, risk profiles, and incentives.
- However, brands should “reverse engineer” big company needs if an exit is desired:
“You could learn about what the big guys want to buy...” [27:49]
- Cautions against “corporate thinkers” trying to launch startups—skills don’t always translate.
9. Riding Viral Momentum & Community Building
- [31:41–35:35]
- Alison shares the story of launching with a Shark Tank update during COVID, using TikTok and digital-first strategies for explosive growth (“from $5,000 to $250,000 on Amazon” [32:22]).
- Big wins arose from moving quickly, investing in Super Bowl presence, and maintaining buzz through relentless digital activity.
- Advice: “Feel cringe, get online, do these things... community is the core of who we built.”
10. Community: The Secret Weapon
- [36:00–40:15]
- Gary: True community building is about consistent engagement—don’t post and ignore replies.
-
“Community is like working out... you can’t talk about it, you can’t read about it... Y’all either went to the gym this morning or you did not.” — Gary [37:21]
- His entrepreneurial journey was built replying to every comment and tweet for years.
- Remarkable brands are made by “going all in on community and engaging with them.”
11. Final Advice: Go Beyond Ego
- [40:40–42:01]
- Alison: “Do not let your ego get in the way of growth.”
- Gary: “Humility is the secret weapon of the successful. It’s not seen often... humility’s easily balanced with confidence.”
- Alison emphasizes knowing your superpower, building your team for support, and being willing to give up control for growth.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
“All that good marketing does against a bad product is speeding up everyone knowing that your product sucks.”
— Gary Vaynerchuk [00:07, 06:47] -
“Branding is harder because it’s gray. It’s art. You don’t see it show up right away... there’s a level of trust that has to come along with it.”
— Gary [03:10] -
“A lot of people think building a brand is just, okay, I know my mission... there’s so much more... our brand book is like 180 pages.”
— Alison [04:38] -
“Every person in this room is literally one post away from things being different now.”
— Gary [11:41] -
“A really big mistake that brands do is not taking enough risk... take way more risk. At least 20% more.”
— Alison [15:23] -
“Big brands are still running marketing departments based on a book that was written in 1991... the problem is, it couldn’t factor in the fragmentation of the media landscape.”
— Gary [16:16] -
“The disease destroying Fortune 5000 land is potential reach versus actualized reach.”
— Gary [18:58] -
“Community is like working out... Y'all either went to the gym this morning or you did not.”
— Gary [37:21] -
“Do not let your ego get in the way of growth.”
— Alison [41:17] -
“Humility is the secret weapon of the successful.”
— Gary [41:20]
Key Timestamps Reference
- 00:00 – Opening: Great marketing exposes a bad product
- 04:14 – Alison on Poppy’s rebrand and emotional branding
- 08:25 – The importance of attention and how to “day trade” it
- 13:10 – Top branding mistakes: Not taking risks
- 16:10 – What big brands do wrong (legacy thinking, measurement problems)
- 21:59 – Balancing core audience with expansion
- 24:45 – “Interest media” vs. “social media”
- 27:20 – Is there anything to learn from the big brands?
- 31:41 – Riding Shark Tank viral momentum and investing in community
- 36:00 – Community building: Real engagement, replying to every comment
- 40:40 – Final advice: Humility, dropping the ego
Episode Takeaways
- Great products and great branding must work in harmony—one without the other will fail.
- True branding is a deep, ongoing investment that goes far beyond visuals and slogans.
- Social media isn’t optional—it is the primary battleground for attention, risk-taking, and community formation.
- Reply, engage, and use digital platforms aggressively and personally to foster loyalty.
- Ignore most of what big brands do—play your agile, risk-taking game, but learn what interests them for potential exits.
- Ego kills adaptability; humility and knowing your strengths is the secret to scaling.
In summary:
This episode lays bare the realities of competitive business in 2025: Agile risk-taking, relentless digital engagement, humility, and an obsession with customer attention are the core drivers of modern brand success—far more than big budgets or flashy campaigns. If you’re building a brand or rethinking your marketing strategy, the playbook is here: Focus on product, invest in brand, reply to your customers, and never believe your own hype.