How To Make Strategic Content To Sell Any Product

Summary

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Podcast Summary: How To Make Strategic Content To Sell Any Product

The GaryVee Audio Experience with Gary Vaynerchuk
December 22, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode is a dynamic roundtable conversation hosted by Gary Vaynerchuk, featuring multiple entrepreneurs and business leaders. The discussion centers on how to create strategic content to drive business results, especially for startups and direct-to-consumer brands. Gary offers specific, actionable advice on content strategy, overcoming mental hurdles, maximizing social media and video, audience targeting, and business decision-making. The tone is supportive, energetic, and frank, with an emphasis on patience, experimentation, and using content as a vehicle for business growth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Content Cross-Pollination and Legacy Building

• Garage Sale Content & Business Impact: Gary opens by explaining how seemingly unrelated content (e.g., garage sale videos) generates business for his agency, VaynerMedia, by reaching decision-makers indirectly ([00:00], [13:57]).
  • Quote: “My garage sale content…leads to business for VaynerMedia... Content is never a bad thing.” — Gary Vee [00:00], [13:57]
• Content Forces vs. Old Media Rules: Gary rejects the old-school notion that you must niche down or maintain a single brand persona. He stresses experimenting and blending interests since “humans are multiple things” ([14:35]).

2. Combining Personal and Professional Brands

• Indoor Cat/Outdoor Cat Dilemma: A female entrepreneur discusses struggling with translating her introverted energy onto social media.
  • Gary identifies idea generation and fear of judgment as common issues and champions authenticity, even starting from a “focus group of one” ([06:43], [09:49]).
  • Gary on patience: “If it’s an altruistic, emotional point of view, it's completely based on patience. I wanted to reach everyone to start in 2009. Very few people were watching. More people watch now.” [11:05]
  • Advice: Don’t be afraid to blend content types (HR, personal finance, etc.). More connections mean more opportunities ([15:41]).

3. Content Strategy Tactics for Social & Video

• Green Screen Content: Gary extols the value of “green screen” videos — using headlines as prompts to comment on in your expertise, which works well on TikTok and creates easy entry content ([07:02]).
• Repurposing Video to Written Content: He encourages filming videos even if you’re text-inclined, then transcribing for multiple uses ([22:10]).
• YouTube Shorts Tips: Title repurposed Shorts for search rather than just content accuracy since YouTube is the second-largest search engine ([17:44]).
  • Gary advice: “Title it for search. You might make a video that lightly touches on taxes, but title it ‘how to file your taxes’.” [17:44]

4. Content Frequency & Platform-Specific Adjustments

• Frequency: “I want you to post four times a day. If you’re doing three times a week, you’re leaving reach on the table.” — Gary Vee ([20:22])
• Copy & Context Matter: Repurpose videos but change copy for each platform’s audience. Slight changes in title or thumbnail can make big differences in performance ([31:11], [32:33]).
  • Gary: “There is no comparison when you can make [content] for a platform. But the copy — that’s mundane, that matters…Thinking like ‘this person’s on Instagram versus TikTok’ matters.” [31:13], [32:33]

5. Paid vs. Organic and Community-Driven Marketing

• Word of Mouth & Virality: The BIA brand founders share their strategy of building a “mid-six-figure” business almost entirely through organic content with no paid spend ([25:14], [25:28]).
  • Gary: “You can’t get more conservative than zero [paid marketing].”
• Virality = Ad Fuel: When something goes viral organically, run paid ads behind it for greater impact, even if the content isn’t salesy ([28:43]).
• Retention Marketing: For subscription products, directly reach out to lapsed customers for research and content opportunities ([34:25]).
  • Gary: “Videotape the interaction of you saying thank you… Don’t try to sell, just build the relationship around the content… Real market research time.” [34:25]

6. Strategic Content for B2B and Capital Raising

• LinkedIn for B2B: Use LinkedIn for highly targeted content, especially when seeking investment or strategic business partners. Tailor content to specific job titles (e.g., COOs of Fortune 500s) ([36:52], [39:17]).
  • Gary: “You could literally target the CEOs of the Fortune 500 CPG companies with creative, which is bananas.” [39:17]
• Narrative for Fundraising: When fundraising (equity/NFT platforms), the financial story and business credibility drive conversions more than mission storytelling alone ([37:23]).
  • Humanize and personalize outreach, not just mass-emailing via tools like Sales Navigator ([41:01]).

7. Business Development and Scaling Concerns

• Hiring & Team Building: For those feeling isolated as founders, Gary recommends first looking within your team for senior leadership, investing deeply in those who could step up ([49:02]-[50:47]).
  • Gary: “Always first choice... You know a lot [about people you’ve worked with], when you hire from outside, you’re guessing.” [49:02]
• Content Focus for Agency Owners: Don’t just showcase influencers’ work for your agency — use their content as B2B ads targeting decision-makers (e.g. CMOs) on LinkedIn. Green screen and commentate for credibility ([52:26]-[52:40]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Mixing Content Interests:
  "Nobody cares enough. That's ego. ... The only people that are telling you to niche down are people who sell niche courses and have never built anything for real." — Gary Vee [14:35]

• On Patience and Slow Growth: “There is no hack. I’m not gonna be able to tell you, be like, well, you know, like for example, green screen. Why am I saying that? Cuz green screen is over. ... The algorithm is clearly seeing that, so it’s helping with organic reach.” — Gary Vee [11:05]

• On Repurposing and Experimentation:
  "If you have a piece of content you really like...retitle it, change the preview screen, change the copy, go again three months later, six weeks later..." — Gary Vee [33:11]

• On Community-driven Brands:
  “An influencer can only love your product so much compared to you.” — Gary Vee [26:25]

• On Overcoming Fear in Business Scaling:
  “The little fish can always succeed. There’s not enough sharks in the world to fill up how big the sea is.” — Gary Vee [47:36]

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Timestamps for Critical Segments

| Time | Segment & Highlights | |----------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | Gary on how diverse content (garage sale) leads to business | | 06:43 | Discussion: struggling with social media & "finding voice" | | 07:02 | Green screen content: overcoming idea blocks | | 11:05 | The importance of patience in content growth | | 14:35 | The myth of "niche down"—more content, more connections | | 17:44 | Tips on YouTube Shorts and search-focused titling | | 20:22 | Content frequency: post more aggressively | | 25:28 | BIA brand founders: Growing with organic content | | 28:43 | Run paid ads behind viral organic content | | 31:13 | Adapting copy by platform; thumbnails and titles matter | | 34:25 | Retention: Calling lapsed users for research & content | | 36:52 | LinkedIn strategy for B2B and capital raising | | 39:17 | Targeting decision-makers directly with LinkedIn ads | | 47:36 | Overcoming fear and mindset in scaling your business | | 49:02 | Promoting from within & building company culture | | 52:26 | Using influencer content as LinkedIn ads for agencies |

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Final Takeaways

• Diversify your content: Don’t be afraid to show all sides of yourself and your business. There’s no downside to giving people more reasons to connect with you.
• Patience matters: Building brand and reach is slow; there’s no shortcut, but content is a compounding asset.
• Strategic documentation: Use green screens, repurpose video, tailor copy by platform, and treat distribution as a science.
• B2B can be creative: Use hyper-targeted content (especially on LinkedIn) aimed at decision-makers, not just broad brand awareness.
• Build your team: Grow leaders from within for trust and context, but also hire externally if the internal team lacks needed strengths.
• Mix mission and math: When raising capital, compelling financial narratives are key—ideals alone don’t close checks.
• Retention and research: Personal outreach to lapsed customers doubles as market research and content fuel.

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For more actionable content strategy and behind-the-scenes marketing advice, follow The GaryVee Audio Experience.

Transcript

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

My garage sale content. It is scary if you look carefully under the hood, how my garage sale content leads to business for VaynerMedia with Fortune 500 companies. Because the people that are consuming the garage sale content are the children of the executives who are making the decisions to go with VaynerMedia content is never a bad thing. This is the GaryVee audio experience.

[Female Entrepreneur / Podcast Host]

I'm going full time on my personal brand thanks to you because last year you told me to get onto TikTok and I did and I hated it. But I still hate it. But here I am. So, yeah, Personal finance.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yep.

[Female Entrepreneur / Podcast Host]

And then I also have a podcast that I co host which is more in the like navigating the workplace, employee advocacy, that type of thing. And I'm trying to figure out how to put those two things together. But yeah. Vancouver, Canada and now putting all my time and energy into.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Good for you. Awesome.

[Troy McDonald]

You know Jeremy very well. Jeff. Jeffrey.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

Hi, I'm Jeffrey.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I can't say hi to Jeremy. It's good to see you, brother. How you been?

[Troy McDonald]

We're going to give you a walk and talk back to your office.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Awesome. I loved it last time.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

I'm Jeffrey Travis, founder of Zeal Comic Con and we're a virtual reality studio that produces virtual reality experiences. Our mission is to move people through.

[Troy McDonald]

The magic of universal storytelling.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

So we produce VR content, but we also have a technology that is a.

[Troy McDonald]

Motion pod that eliminates motion sickness, makes experience far more immersive with synth and haptics.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

And primarily we're building a network of.

[Troy McDonald]

Virtual reality theaters in places like museums, tourist centers.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Interesting. A lot of B2B. Yeah, makes sense. Awesome. Pleasure. Where are you from? I'm sorry.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

Based in la.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

La. Awesome.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

So I'm Kaya, this is Yasmin. We're sister in laws. We have a company called BIA that helps women from all the way from puberty through menopause. So onset of menses.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Interesting.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

Balance their hormones and it uses who foods. So we're all about food is medicine. I think like 80% of women have hormonal imbalances and don't know what to do. They're giving band aids. Like I should, I don't know if I should say the camera, birth control, things like that. And we want to give them like an actual solution to their problem.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I love that.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

And we launched last year, only direct to consumer, subscription based and 100% self funded.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Wow. It's awesome. All Whole Foods.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

All Whole Foods.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'm such a buyer of this thesis.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

It changed my life. And we're like, we gotta get this out to more women.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I have a disproportionately educated girlfriend when it comes to whole foods. I'm like stunningly educated through osmosis. I'm well more prepared to help you now than before, so can't wait. Good for you. I think you really. There's real upside in that other than DTCC businesses are very hard. There's that part. We'll talk about it. All right now this whole side of.

[Troy McDonald]

The table comes from Canada. So we're gonna start with these folks in the middle who are all one group here. Christine, wanna go ahead and say hi to Gary and introduce your peeps.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Hi, Gary.

[Christine Lewington]

So I'm Christine Lewington, CEO and founder of Pip International. This is my daughter Shelby, she's in charge of marketing. And this is Troy, he's here for hi Fi. So what we are is we're an ag tech company and we extract the protein out of yellow peas. So plant based and it's a clean plant based protein and we're going to disrupt the industry because pea protein tastes like and ours does not.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Fascinating.

[Christine Lewington]

So we have large companies, I can't say them on camera that are at the table and how do I close them and how do I raise the real money? Because I just. Right now, currently the guys are commissioning our $30 million pilot facility and we're growing to the 200 million. I bought the land, everything else is engineered and we're going big because you can't go small. You want tens of thousands of tons. You just do a little bit. And so I've partnered with hi Fi who does things that you, I think are going to understand the NFT raising money. So I'll hand it over to Troy.

[Troy McDonald]

Yeah, quickly, Gary. So I'm Troy McDonald. I'm the chairman and CEO of Pifi Corp. Small US public company. Big company. We've built a securities token offering platform for clients very much like that. She's become an investor in our company as well. Agritech Green Tech. These things that are essential to humanity. These private companies are looking to do capital raises and they're going to be using our platform to do security token offerings. We have a new form of NFT. We think we can take NFTs from being most of them being foolish to be very serious. And we actually have a new form of security token offering, completely legally compliant in the US EU and now in Canada.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You have to be accredited investor or.

[Troy McDonald]

No for some types of offerings. For her first offering, yes, it'll be A reg diagram, level 6C, but we'll also be doing reg A and not need to be accredited.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Understood.

[Troy McDonald]

Thank you.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Hi.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

So I'm Nunu, originally from Portugal, living in Canada for eight years now. Influencer Marketing Agency. 90% of our business is focused on promoting gaming. So we do dedicated videos, integrations in the most organic way possible. Because I've been trying to do it on a different way from those other platforms. So we have been growing and I hit kind of a threshold that I didn't know where to go from here. So I was approached few times for people to try to acquire my company. I didn't know what to do. And then I booked Matt Higgins on Intro. So I met Matt and he said, like, you're crazy. You're not going on that direction. You're going to learn how to build your second tier of your company, your management team that you don't have at the moment, and you will grow your business and definitely you will need, like the 4D help.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's awesome. That's very nice, Matty. It's funny. Very cool. Where are you based?

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

Kingston.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And do you rep the talent?

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

No.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You rep the brands? Yes. Understood. Cool.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

Cool.

[Troy McDonald]

Let's go back to the.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Let's rock and roll.

[Female Entrepreneur / Podcast Host]

Yeah. So I have a podcast called It's Time to Lean with. I co host with a friend and that is all about career, you know, like employee stuff. But then really my personal brand, which is what I'm trying to. Trying to grow. I'm struggling. I got on TikTok, I started, you know, doing all the, like, repurposing the content. And what I've realized is that I'm more. I'm an indoor cat and social media is requiring me to be an outdoor cat. And I'm like, struggling to figure out how to, like, find my voice.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And why do you think, well, let's break it down because it's gonna matter for everyone in the room. So introverted versus extroverted, or however you want to paint it. Let's go higher. Are you worried about judgment? No.

[Female Entrepreneur / Podcast Host]

I mean, I don't really give a fuck about what people say. I just.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Do you not have the ideas? Cause that's something that I've struggled with. Yeah, that's something I've been thinking a lot more about. And some of you consume my content for a long time. Even my own team is hearing this for the first time. Even Andrew, who films me. Like, I've been thinking a lot about the ideas. I've come to realize that I took for Granted how easy ideas are for me. We talked about this the other day for Vayner and Sasha. So this is one of the reasons I've started doing Green Screen content again. Making assumptions that some of you are paying close attention to me and others aren't. Green Screen, have you seen this where I take a headline from an article and then I'm over it and I'm talking. Early on when TikTok was popping something, I said that I stopped talking about that. I'm gonna start talking more about is these platforms are now helping people with training wheels. Like when I first started YouTube, it was like camera post. Now with all the filters, all the features, the music, the this and that, these platforms are really trying to put you in a position to be able to make the content. The reason I like green screen a lot is for a lot of people here. No matter. I just listened almost every. Actually, I'm taking this back. Everybody here can speak as a commenter on top of an article within their field, whether that's private equity or influencer marketing or food or food or raising capital. Almost everyone here. I woke up, had an idea. I think having a grudge might be the great poison of our society. I've been thinking about this lately a lot. That if you actually are a human being who is currently sitting with a grudge, that it's actually destroying you on an everyday basis. So I was interested in that. And normally the way I would do it would be I would make again, I think all of you know, like grudge. I branded post, white title. Grudges are bad. Away we go. What I did instead with this new behavior, and I've got a point here for everyone, is I googled articles about grudges, scientific and things of that nature. Now I'm a little scared because I know I don't want to be a headline reader and just take something that might be a bullshit article. So it's a little challenging. But this is lightweight enough. It's not like I'm making a scientific claim or, you know, like, you know. And so one thing that I'm trying to tap into for you is potentially the concept of is it the ideas? Indoor cat, outdoor cat, speaks to putting out stuff. Most common people are actually insecure about judgment and whether it's physical appearance, do they really know imposter syndrome, things of that nature, or. Or just really are at that place in their life where two or three negative comments can really throw them into a snowball. I could sense that. So then it might be about the Ideas.

[Female Entrepreneur / Podcast Host]

Yeah, because I know what I did and my whole thing is I want to help other women who are just like me.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'm going to jump in here. What you've done is a. The only thing I do for a living for the last 15 years is based off of what I've done. I've just gotten good at making it more macro than a focus group of one. Yeah, it's the starting point. The only thing that you need to do in those scenarios is not be fearful of, well, wait a minute. This is I. And understand how much of this is we. Like even 4ds. This is a meta situation. I'm answering your question, but trust me, I'm throwing this at everybody because there's different versions of it for everyone. So I think, not fearing, speaking from a place of one and understanding how most things are universal and just changing some of the words of I to. We may give you a starting point. Yeah, let's keep talking. This is why we have this. Yeah.

[Female Entrepreneur / Podcast Host]

Well, it's.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Is it. Are you lacking patience for us to get there?

[Female Entrepreneur / Podcast Host]

No, I have all the time in the world. It's really, for me, more mission driven. Like I just want to reach more women, more moms, people that are, you know, I don't have a finance degree.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, you.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

Well, you just taught everything myself.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, you will. If it's an altruistic, emotional point of view, it's completely based on patience. I wanted to reach everyone to start in 2009. Very few people were watching. More people watch now. How about the fact that in 2022, I know that I haven't even begun reaching how many people I want to reach. Yeah, true, right? It was only the last couple years that I'm translating my content into Portuguese now people in Brazil and Portugal know who I am and they didn't 24 months ago. So, you know, I think a lot of times if you're truly coming from a selfless place, if you are, and I think all of us come from some version of selfish and selfless place, it's being a human being, then we really are talking about patience because there is no hack. I'm not gonna be able to tell you be like, well, you know, like for example, green screen. Why am I saying that? Cuz green screen is over. Indexing that video of me talking about grudges would have gotten 400,000 views on Instagram for my current situation, the green screen will get 1.7 million. So that's a tactic that I love because one, it's working for people on the other side. Two, the algorithm is clearly seeing that, so it's helping with organic reach. Three, it will help a lot of you make a piece of content in a way that maybe you couldn't. Otherwise you have a thought. You don't know what to do in a one minute video, but if you Google an article, green screen it and then speak what you were thinking about that subject matter, now you do have a piece of content. I have a 30 person content team. Andrew will tell you that now is probably like, wait a minute. Gary's basically now just doing green screen. He's doing it by ourselves. Like, are our jobs in trouble? Like, he doesn't need us. That's powerful. That's powerful and very powerful for a lot of people here. Because I, you know, everyone's like, easy for you, Gary. You have a team. I'm like, but I didn't have a team for the first eight years of my content creation. What about that part of the story? So what else?

[Female Entrepreneur / Podcast Host]

Well, what else is. So I have this podcast and I'm, I'm trying to figure out how to cause all of my. Yeah, weave it in. Because all of my, like, professional experience is in leadership. Like HR employee. You know, I was a manager, you know, so. And I really. Most companies are like, shitty. Most managers are shitty. And most employees, like, don't know what their rights are. They don't know what they can ask for or what, you know, how to go about it. And so I have this whole thing which is really sort of skills, like my whole career, which I love talking about, I love, you know, having.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So why are you doing the podcast?

[Female Entrepreneur / Podcast Host]

Because I love that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Good.

[Female Entrepreneur / Podcast Host]

And I have like so much deep knowledge. Knowledge on, on that. But it's completely different from the personal finance stuff.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's. Okay. So let me give you, let me, let me give you an, Let me give you an insight. So my garage sale content, it is scary if you look carefully under the hood, how my garage sale content leads to business for VaynerMedia with Fortune 500 companies. Because the people that are consuming the, the garage sale content are the children of the executives who are making the decisions to go with VaynerMedia. Content is never a bad thing.

[Female Entrepreneur / Podcast Host]

I often, I just, I wonder if, I think like, if it takes away from.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Nobody cares. Nobody cares enough. That's ego. Nobody's watching those two places and be like, I'm gonna take away from this. They don't give a fuck. Okay, good. That is just pure ego. Like, nobody cares. By the Way you just gave the number one argument why everybody who cares about me in business doesn't want me to do 90% of the things I do. Carrie, you can't make a fucking video that's yelling into the screen about receipts because the jets won a football game. You're undermining your intellect. I'm like, no, I'm not. The end. We have a lot of classic thoughts that were built on the old media and distribution framework. Humans are multiple things you can be. Yes, like who? The only people that are telling you to niche down are people who sell niche courses and have never built anything for real.

[Female Entrepreneur / Podcast Host]

Yeah, I hate that. I like hate that shit.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So don't do it. Correct. I would tell you to do more shit.

[Female Entrepreneur / Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like start a third podcast talking about kites. I'm being dead serious. I believe the more you give the world to attach with you. There are people who are attached to me. Cause they're jets fans. Cause they like garage sales, because they like wine, because they like business. Because they love modern blockchain technology. Cause they like I give. Think about how I'm doing it.

[Troy McDonald]

It's all be friends.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I mean, it's everywhere. And like it's complete. Like there is no logic to to it. By old points of view, it becomes an energy cost game, not a strategic game. If you don't have the energy to do both, that I respect. That becomes logical. Right. We only have so many resources, financially or emotionally. But if you have the capacity. Notice how quickly I said great when you said I love it. I didn't want to hear anything else because that is an energy driver, not sucker. People actually don't understand this. When I tell people to do a piece of like you should do a Star Trek podcast, they see it on surface level the way I say it, which is like somebody else might be a Star Trek fan. And then they may give you business. What it really is in disguise is you love Star Trek so much that that hour each week is giving you energy for your other 60 hours. My obsession with the New York jets, and I'm realizing right now. Cause we've been so bad for so long and now we're actually having a decent season. I forgot because it's been so dreary. I forgot how that felt. Four hours on a Sunday drives my entire week. So I think you need to be doing more. It's just that the content has to be strong and strategic across the board. And that's what four Ds will teach out of like the S and sock. But that theory is not true. It's more that you just have to make more content of the thing that you want to monetize. Got it. It's not decrease the leadership thing. It's add more to the financial thing. Okay.

[Female Entrepreneur / Podcast Host]

I love it.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

Awesome.

[Female Entrepreneur / Podcast Host]

I'm gonna keep doing what you tell me to do.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

There you go. All right, Jeffrey, by the way, YouTube shorts.

[Female Entrepreneur / Podcast Host]

I'm repurposing to YouTube shorts. It's like, a hot mess.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, it's only. Cause it's early number two, and this is very big for all of you. Remember when you title your YouTube shorts video, even if it's not directly obvious to what the content you put out, if you're repurposing from TikTok, title it for search. Cause YouTube is the second biggest search engine in the world, right? So you might make a video that lightly touches on taxes, but you might title the video how to file your taxes. Got it? Cause you're doing it for search. All right. Hey, everybody. Hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast. That's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show, but follow the podcast. It'll make my mom super happy.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

So, you know, I have ideas. I just started a campaign to start posting on LinkedIn three times a week.

[Troy McDonald]

I want to start a podcast where.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I interview the filmmakers who come to.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

Your content because I'm very active.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But remember, when the Target is a B2B decision maker, that's the sizzle. But make sure back to, like, jab, jab, jab, right hook for every filmmaker, because that's cool. Try to have somebody on the show once every two or three times. That is an actual decision maker that you're trying to reach, because you'll be able to use the content from that episode as ads against decision makers. And she or he's gonna say something that is disproportionately gonna resonate with the people like her or him. So where people get caught is they think their thing is boring, and so they go for the cooler thing. Right? You thought properly, I'm gonna do a podcast. Who the fuck cares about the, you know, like, the licensing fee or the structure or some of the hardware? That's boring. What's cool is the fucking the movies, right? On the flip side, you're doing it for marketing, and you're trying to shoot fish in a barrel of a very small group of people. I still believe that one of the biggest things B2B companies need to do is make their content Strictly for the cfo. Strictly talking about why their thing saves their company money. Even if it's like whatever that is. That's why I love hr. All these dopey, dopey business people like disrespect hr. That's where all the money is. If you have retention and good culture, all the hidden gray of the money you're making versus the black and white all the CFOs pay attention to. It's not even a fair race. It's a tortoise in the hare. Nonetheless, give that some thought. Okay? Right.

[Troy McDonald]

Okay, sounds good.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

And then the other thing I was wondering about is just in terms of calibrating the breadth of the message. So if I start writing posts I want to create content I can get very.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

This is a strong. I get very specific and and talk.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

About what the message is for both.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And this is again, this is the sub. You know how we talk about subconscious bias now in society? Like you don't realize but you have these feelings and I'm trying to get people to be okay with that because we're just human beings. We grew up in our circumstances. And the question the quicker we realize we do have it and the quicker we also don't judge people for having it, the quicker this world can get nice. Everything is and it's unbelievable how deep the subconscious bias of OR is in business. If you're posting three times a week and you know I want you to post four times a day, but if you're doing three times a week, think about what you're asking. You're doing 12 posts a month and there's not the like what comes to mind is am I gonna seem very inconsistent? This goes back to the ideology of like there's nobody's Gonna read all 12 to begin with. Who are we looking inconsistent to again, what is really starting to. And it's amazing. It's right off the bat on both of these. We have a major, major issue with over believing academia and under believing reality the concept of who's consistent about anything. Of course you're a human being and you have your values and what have you. But all of us as parents and operators and human beings have to adjust to reality at all times. We also should start championing people's ability to change their mind. That is my greatest strength. New data, new decisions, new information, new life situation, new observations. You're not going to bother anybody if you go high sizzle metaverse and then come down hardcore nerdy motion sickness technology.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

But then those people aren't Gonna see.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The other one and go like, oh.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

This is so pedantic, right?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Do you believe humans work that way? Yeah, like that's right. I mean, to your point, one of the. I almost think that the reason I'm doing some of the stuff I'm doing is to go to the extreme. I'm like a very well respected businessman who's wildly not respected by the establishment because they see a video of me buying a T shirt for a dollar and give zero fucks. Because there's no reason to. All you're trying to win on is relevance to as many people as possible. The people that will eliminate you because you're talking about multiple things are the least interesting people on earth. You're just trying to get people to consider you. And the way to get more people to consider you is to touch on more things. You're not the encyclopedia, you're not BBC. And even those things we've seen evolve, right? Like even CNBC or like, you know, like even like Wall Street Journal. Like they, if you look at the history of publications, needs to expand for relevance, even though they started as something very narrow. It's the inevitable chess move. Nobody's gonna eliminate you. Cause you touched on two different things. This goes back to how I think it really works. I would challenge you to, to also add to your content what fly fishing taught me about business. And make the whole first 17 sentences about fly fishing. Cause you love it. Or darts or hockey or rock climbing or surfing or chess. We need connection points when we're going through that stream on LinkedIn. I'm more likely to stop if you're talking about knock hockey than if you are talking about the metaverse. You see where I'm going? Do you have a sense before we run out of here, do you have a sense of which communication style suits you best? Audio, video or written word? Probably written word or video. I mean, I don't mind being on camera. Well then if that's the case, you should do video and then transcribe. Have an intern or lowest cost transcription, right? Think about the double benefit if you're willing to do video. I mean I have a lot of. I've written five New York Times best selling books and have never written a sentence of it. It's all out of my mouth. Video, transcribe to book, even the last book. Cause I did during COVID literally my team visited me at my apartment. I just talked, we just filmed it all. And now you have much more content if you film it that you can use in other Places. So I would definitely lean into the video and transcribe it to the written word. Even if you directly are doing an article, speak it if you can and let that be the written thing because then even the video becomes extra. Now all of a sudden you're at 12 a week instead of 12amonth. That's how you get there. Make sense? Yeah. Cool. Cool.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

Well Gary, thanks for having us. You've been a huge inspiration to how we built Leah. We've listened to Tanya Fordy so it's.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

An honor to be here humbled.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

I'd love to give you just a bit of plan so you have more context. But we launched last year. I think the first year was us really figuring out do we have product market fit. We've hit that. We're a mid six figure business right now. We're profitable. We're reinvesting every dollar in so we're.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Barely profitable for customer acquisition.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

No, we have not done any paid marketing.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

No.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

All word of mouth. Yeah.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

So that's kind of how we built the business and kid on it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Share more about.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

Yeah, we both heard one of your podcast one night and the next day decided we're doubling down on content. So we're doing about three, four pieces of content per social platform. We have a newsletter per for Instagram that I understand.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

3 or 4 per platform per week. Day.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

Per day.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So how many what total per day? Oh, 12 to love. Love you. So pumped with you and it's working.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

Oh, it's been wonderful.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Did everybody hear that? Yeah. Three times a week. Go ahead. There we go, my man. Progress.

[Female Entrepreneur / Podcast Host]

We're doing a little bit of influencer.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

Marketing in the beginning and then we decided to double down our own content.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

Working way better.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes.

[Female Entrepreneur / Podcast Host]

So it's been fun.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know how like, you know like I always tell people in this one, they're always like Gary, why is that? I'm like, you know how you love. We all love children. Like children. We universally all agree like we love this seven year old. We love our children more. An influencer can only love your product so much compared to you.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

Yeah. So newsletter about to start a podcast which we'll probably put on YouTube and we're trying to decide all of that right now.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You want to talk about that for half a sec? Because it's super important. I think you'll do well.

[Female Entrepreneur / Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

We started to record content. We're trying to decide, we're interviewing a lot of experts but we also want to do our own original content. So we started recording but we haven't.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Figured it out when you say your own original. Just you guys on the show. Yeah. So I would do both in one show. Let me tell you how to figure it out. Back to and versus or think in segments. I think the show should start with five to seven minutes of you guys think about Regis and Kelly. Like they like banter in the morning. Like guest, guest, guest, guest, close the show. So I think the way you should do it is do six, seven, eight minutes of you guys. 30 minutes with the guest. Six, seven minutes of you guys to close out. Maybe that one has like a little segment or a little game or hot take or you do something with each other or like for name association or whatever and then you're done. Then you have the post production for all of it segments.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

Yeah.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

And the way we're thinking about it. So YouTube for sure. And I have a podcast. I've been doing it for like two and a half years weekly. Personal. Just passion of mine that gives me energy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Love that. Thank you.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

And we had some help interviews and we saw it really works. We now want to double down on YouTube, I guess for us. Like, I don't know if I'm being too conservative with our marketing dollars. We have not spent anything. Like, what do you think? How do you think we should prioritize?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, you can't get more conservative than zero.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

I know I probably need some help, but. And should we be spending. Where should we be focusing on marketing? I mean, doubling down on YouTube.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like that makes sense when you guys have tell me a good war story of a piece of organic content that went viral. Go.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

Which one are you gonna. I mean we have a few. But one on Instagram, it was like over a million. It was this like cocktail mocktail that we did.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You should take that video and run ads against that, against target audiences. Because the algorithm, AKA the human beings, everyone's like Mark Zuckerberg China. It's fucking humans responding to shit. These platforms are very simple. They just want people to stay on it for as long as possible so they can run ads. So they're not like Zucks isn't pushing propaganda of like you loving VR. They're just fucking math. And so for you, that mocktail should be turned into an ad.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

Even if it's not like, because we do a lot of education. So even if it's not our specific product. It's a healthy hormone friendly.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Correct. It's giving people awareness to your brand. It might not be sales oriented. Like you might run $1,000 against it and get no Sales. And you'll be like, fucking Gary. But meanwhile, what I know is that you did get sales. You can't attribute it to it. So now people feel fond towards you. Three weeks later, they decide to buy it. They just go to the website because they know who you are, but you can't point to the ad and you're like, the ad didn't work. Well, the ad's definitely going to work because it already went viral. People are interested. I'm incredibly bullish on everybody here running ads after it succeeded on organic. That's something that we haven't lived in for a long time because it's not how the platform's worked. So we have it way better than we did the last 10 years. We had to guess and run money, or run micro money, see if it worked, and then poured fluid on it. Now the algorithm does a better indicator if it's going to work than even our micro ad spend. So, like, to me, if you're gonna test some stuff, test it on the things that go viral on your 12 a day.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

Okay, got it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes. At some point, the holy grail for DTC businesses is to find scalable math that works in CAC and ltv. The problem is most of them aren't actually working profitably. They're using VC money to subsidize their underwater CAC and ltv. And then there's eventually funny game of chicken of can you sell it before your math runs out? Which is a fucking challenging game and one that I don't like to play because it's like a fake business. See how the B got going? Because he knows that's what he sees every day. Right. They're on the other side trying to decide is this sustainable or is this a moment in time? And da, da, da, Keep going.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

Yeah. And I mean, one thing that we're not doing right now, we're doing three to four pieces of content, but we're using that same content on different platforms and. And that's gotten us to where we are.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Are you changing the copy?

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

We are.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Good. So you'll take the same vid. Yeah. So, like, that's a quick hack that can really help a lot of people here. It's the same video, but the copy's different because the audience is different on TikTok than it is on LinkedIn than it is on Twitter. So something to think about. Just copy changes or just slight little edit changes?

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Can matter.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

We've been doing them a little bit for years.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

YouTube, like the things that people search on shorts.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And what are you seeing?

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

Ish, some traction. But I think, yeah, we're also gathering, we're talking to Joe, maybe making content exclusively for YouTube.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Look, even I have a repurposing model with context. But like there is no comparison when you can make for a platform. Because when I'm saying, hey, TikTok versus hey everyone, there's a noticeable difference. It just, you know, I'm running a ton of businesses, so it's hard for me. So I get it, but it's real. But the copy for sure, don't mail that in because it doesn't take a lot of time. You know, like there's certain things that you can mail in, AKA like you just don't have the time or resources, energy. But the copy, that's mundane. Like, yes, I know it's easier to control C and control V. But like thinking like this person's on Instagram versus this person's on TikTok matters copy in.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

The description and title. If you have it on the.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, if you're in the editing mode and you can change the title like titles every. The thumbnail and titles. I mean, I don't know if you saw the viral video of Mr. Beast. Like he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on the thumbnail. Now he's playing at the single highest level. But I understand I'm spending millions of dollars on a team that is doing the same thing. In theory, it's. It's actually scary how much the title and the thumbnail works. Which is why if you have a piece of content, keep this in mind that you really like. You just feel good about it and you post it and didn't go, retitle it, change the preview screen, change the copy, go again three months later, six weeks later, four weeks later.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

Well, I feel like we have a.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Product that, I mean, how much is it?

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

It's 45. So we have a one month bundle because you take it daily. It's a daily thing to support your hormones. So it's 55 for one month and then you can get three months, which drops it down to 45amonth.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And there's no one year.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

We don't have a one year.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Why?

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

No reason.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What I like about one year is people forget to unsubscribe and like, like things of that nature and like, you know, like, it's definitely worth debating. You have longer tail, you know, to re. Get somebody to. To get somebody to re up at month four versus the amount of people that forget or are passive or neutral or Apathetic to it for one year is a lot of money. How big is your drop off after three months?

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

The average right now for our users is 4.8 months that they're with us.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. I literally think if you go to 12 months instead of three months, that that number would be 9.7 months. And if you're ever gonna go raise.

[Troy McDonald]

Money, they're gonna want to scale up.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. They're gonna be scared shitless of that if you're gonna raise capital. Yeah, yeah. It's just too expensive to re engage. What are you doing with your lapsed users? I got something really good for you. I got a real good one for you. Ready?

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

Yes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think that you should call on speakerphone every single person who's no longer subscribed and once was for three months. I think you should videotape the interaction of you saying thank you. Not try to sell them to re up, but just to build a relationship around the content. And when you have successful conversions, you ask them if they will allow you to put out the video of this successful reconversion. I think there's something there. There, there. Well, first of all, the reason you should do it is market research. I'm adding content creation and reactivation of business. And I think you're small enough still where you could just grind that.

[Kaya or Yasmin (Sister-in-Laws, founders of BIA)]

Yeah, totally. Oh, we are all about radical customer support.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. So calling, literally calling and saying, I just want you to. I just. We just want to thank you for ever being on our service and just hopefully it brought you some value and hope it sprung you into action theoretically. Whether, you know, we're obviously aware that you're no longer using us, but I hope it's sprung you into a better you. Thank you. So I used to do this quite a bit for Wine Library. The most fun part of the phone call is when you're done just doing love and good. And there's this awkward three second pause because they're waiting for you to give them an offer to reactivate, but you don't try it, even if you don't record it, which is probably the biggest friction of everything. I just told you. I think the market research you'll get to why people unsubscribed. Like by the 19th call, if they all said the berries were the problem, you're like, oh, should we even have berries? Like it. Like it's real market research time.

[Troy McDonald]

Christine and Team Pip and Hi, Fi.

[Christine Lewington]

All righty. So I guess we're in a little bit myself here before we talk about the raising Money on an NFT platform is we're B2B.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Christine Lewington]

But now I've been forced to B2C a little bit because consumers want so, so dramatically. So talking to the big guys, big multinationals, they're starting to realize they need our pea protein to reformulate all the way through. Like all of Korea's on board, they're all wanting to swap out soy protein with our pea protein. So how do I put the message together? And I'm not going to say we don't actually go on tick tock and stuff yet, but it's okay, you know, what's that?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I mean, if you were, if you were B2B up to this point, TikTok is not the logical place to go.

[Christine Lewington]

Yeah, yeah. And so little bit of LinkedIn being cautious because we're small and big guys are watching and wanting to stop me. So how would you sit and go, okay, what's my marketing approach? To get the knowledge to, to get the radical fans, as you said, behind it. So when we approach with hi Fi here and do this NFT launch, we get those investors that come behind it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'm sure hi Fi will tell you, like the conversion of, you know, the. What's really fascinating about the crowdfunding, the jobs act, this whole genre of the last 10 years is it's great on paper in the way that a lot of our ideologies are like our fans are gonna, but like, you know, and I'm sure they have plenty of case studies through this. Like the narrative is when people invest, even micro levels, they want a return on their investment. That's very important because you can get very caught in the ideology of people want pea protein in the world for a better place. When they're writing a check, they really do want it to return. Even when you look at over the counter stock in the popularity of Nike and Starbucks and Tesla and Netflix, there's really fascinating psychology in like how people invest. They'll do it for proxy, they'll buy 5 shares, feel good that they love Puma. But you know, I think couple things. One, the thing that's gonna make them convert is the financial story, not the ideological story of like why soy is bad or this, that, the other thing. So that's very important because I've watched every single Kickstarter, every single Indiegogo, every single modern NFT fundraising thing. People think, they think the consumer cares more about the story than they do outside of the occasional Robin Hood where it's a memeification Reddit gamestop thing, which is much more deeply in the human psychology of Fuck the man than it is to give a fuck that it was GameStop. You've gotta make sure it's about the actual business story. So that's one very curve ball that has to be grounded in. So another thing real quick that you said, that's important. I have historically seen that people are scared to put out too much content cause the big guys are gonna squash them. But by them not putting out the content, they don't get the awareness for the thing they wanted to get done. And one thing that we all know about the big guys is they're slow and they'd rather M and A it anyway. Right. Notice how many giggles we just got. Right, right. We just all know that. I get it. I think that's the boogeyman. I think what you need to do is dismantle it on LinkedIn. I really do. Because LinkedIn will service you twice. They'll service you for the business development deals because you're making content that you know you're going to target. I mean you could literally target the job. So who are the, what's the job title description? What's the, what's the job one holds in the big companies that works with you? What are they? The Chief what COO? The fact that you can literally target the CEOs of the Fortune 500 CPG companies with creative is fucking bananas. Like LinkedIn didn't get caught up in the issues that Facebook did. So their targeting is still remarkable. And so now if you know this video or this article or this image is going to be targeting the coo, well then you know what you're going to say. Which then becomes the same game of what you're going to say to the general population of LinkedIn and YouTube shorts is where I would go. Because of the search capabilities on the over the counter play that we're about to get into.

[Troy McDonald]

Yeah, we have two Navigator subscriptions for this kind of targeting.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's right, that's right. But that is sales. The navigator is spam email at scale. I want content. Like the reason it took people a long time with LinkedIn was LinkedIn obviously started as recruiting and then when it got into marketing it was lowest common denominator email marketing. Let's just spam the fuck out of all the people with the right titles and get lucky. Right? We all were receiving end of this. We all know what I'm talking about. Where LinkedIn got cool and interesting and I started talking about it was three, four years ago when it started acting like Facebook. Right. Sales navigator to me is what I told those two wonderful ladies to do which is go very one on one. People forget that humans are animals. This is back to your tummy and your gut. Humans are animals. None of us are confused by a bulk email. We don't even consume it. And the people that do, like you probably don't want it to be doing business with if they got tricked by a bulk email. Right. So I think on the sales part you go one on one. I'd much rather go one on one there. Hey Don, saw you went to Duke because you looked at their LinkedIn Go Devils anyway, like you know, like. And then on the content you go broad.

[Troy McDonald]

What do you think about the story of traditional bricks and mortar meeting fintech? So here you have a very conventional bricks and mortar business. Our pilot facilities, 19,000 square feet. She's building a much bigger one, right?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes.

[Troy McDonald]

She's coming to the fintech space now we have across all we have traditional manufacturing business with innovation coming into which is an innovative business itself.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, I think, I think that will be more challenging is my intuition only because if you really look under the hood the smart money already understands that our technology is like talking about the Internet. Like when I first did winelibrary.com like people wanted to write that article like liquor store has website. That was a story that's like right. The reason everyone's giggling now is that's insane. And I think at some level I get where your energy's coming from. I just don't know if you're gonna get buy in from anything that's gonna get significant reach because I think most of the business publications that I've been in this storm for the last two years, 18 months, the kind of cat's out of the bag of like this is a macro technology. I think your spidey senses are right from like normal people still haven't grasped that. But the media, like the business media does understand that and I'm not sure like P Warehouse goes to blockchain is like gonna like completely compel them. But again I don't want to be the beacon of. No, I think it's worth a shot. If you're asking me the question. I don't think it's the story the same way it was 18 months ago. I do think it's time for us to get serious about what NFTs are is definitely gonna be a universal story. My biggest passion though is for you to pound the content to why you have a good Business. Cause if you're banking on hi Fi, which I know you, but you have to. Yes, exactly. He wouldn't be here. Correct? No, but yes. Which is a perfect answer of a real operator. You would really like this to be a financial execution of money raising. It's going to be based on how much you can compel the masses to think you've got something good.

[Christine Lewington]

Yeah. And so like we, So I have investors obviously at the table, of course, devil to dance with. So if this was something that we haven't tried it. So we're going to test it with a soft raise of 5 million to 10 million, whatever. And we have people at the table.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That are going, I totally get it.

[Christine Lewington]

Right. We're setting it up for success. But you know, I have the 50, $100 million players over here. They're coming in, but then they want to take your company.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Of course. This is so much. You have much more leverage this way. Of course.

[Christine Lewington]

Dip over here, dip over here.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The only way you're going to do that is have mass amounts of people interested in the business and that comes through the content about the business. Like why it's a good business. Like why the cons and where you bleed it into where you want it to is. The consumer trend is showing X. Yes.

[Troy McDonald]

That I noticed when we told the story together about sort of the tale of two CEOs innovating. It blew up for content. The fact that we, we have, we had a blended news release together on LinkedIn.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It shut off and, and, and yes, yes. You see where I'm going. It's just so common for us to go. It's always. And more. The cost of entry is so low. The back end of it is so high. Why wouldn't. I mean, why wouldn't we.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

I'll be way more focused on the business and less on the content.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I already had like, no problem. I'm thrilled.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

And Joe.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. We're talking about building out the infrastructure.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

I should start like a podcast and start getting like those decision makers on the podcast so I can get like more content. So I can. But in terms of the business.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

So when I got to this threshold, I feel that I'm a little alone in those decisions of my own business.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Makes sense.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

And I don't have that second tier of management. And I got scared. Scared of what? Like I'm in a big sea, lots of sharks. I'm a little fish making myself out there and successful out there because I've been growing year after year. So I got scared. So the first question would be how do you know when you should sell or you should just keep investing on yourself or building that second tier team.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It's a very personal question. First of all, there is no, unlike a lot of the questions here where I think there's a real path. I always believe one should sell if they want to sell. Let me break that down. The thought of ever selling any business I've been involved in has been zero. We sold Empathy wines because my partners were of the life cycle where both of them were on the precipitous of getting engaged and starting their next real chapter of their lives. And the dollars associated with selling it were high and it was gonna change their lives. But I was like devastated. Cause I just never even wanna have a company that I don't wanna have forever. But if you are tired or interested in something else or just wanna put the dollars in, but selling out of fear cause you think something bad's gonna happen is not a good thing. Reason to sell.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

That was pretty much every. So when building like.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Because I'll tell you why the little fish can always succeed. Because there's not enough sharks in the world to fill up how big the sea is. It's a really big propaganda that sharks have scared small fish into. There's just too much out there. And Influencer marketing, there's unlimited brands and unlimited gaming influencers, let alone influencers for the rest of your grandchildren's life. What are we talking about? Right.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

The toughest part with that is one of the biggest advantages of working with merchandise. Influencer has been like we really care about our clients and the fact that we are on the same side of the brand and less on the side of the talent gives us the advantage. And with always understanding that we don't want to change the type of content of the content creator so we respect his content. So that's not what we are there for. But on the other side, we are not a talent agency that we are going to the brand and say we have this talent that can promote your product.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I agree.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

So the biggest thing goes with the motto of my company is we connect brands with audiences, not with influencers. So way more important than finding an influencer. Is it?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I understand the business model very well. Yeah.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

Amazing. So in terms of building that business, should I invest in preparing the people that are already working with me and bringing. Bringing them up, promoting them to Always first choice.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Always first choice. Because when you're homegrown you have context. When you're working with people for a length of Time. You know a lot when you're hiring from the outside, you're guessing, right. But the question becomes, do you feel confident in anybody who's internal or do.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

They have the skills?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, the question becomes, do you feel confident in them because skills are teachable? What about the will or just the way they work with you or who you think they are as a human being? How many employees do you have?

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

I just readjusted.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No problem.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

18. Only 12.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Good. It's smart. There's a lot going on. So of those 12, when we're talking like this, who do you feel like? How many people of those 12 do you feel like? Can you really actually grow.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

That work?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, yeah, that you think about these 12 and you're like, I could see in four years, him or her or him actually being quite senior.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

I would say that they are all.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Good people.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

Devoted to what they do.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

If in three years you have to go away for a year, in three years and you have to go away for a year, of those 12 people, how many do you think can grow into someone you feel you could trust to keep an eye on the house while you're gone for a year?

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

I trust them. I just don't know if they have the skills. But you already said that I can get them the skills, teach them.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You can.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

I would say I have, like, people inside that I can.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, those people that you're thinking about need to get an obnoxious amount of your time, not your clients. The biggest mistake a company of this size does is is they spend most of their energy on getting new clients or with their clients or scouring influencers when they should be spending all their time with the 12 people. When I think about this organization, how we got to 1,500, 2,000 people, it was because of the time I spent in 2011-2014 with 100 of them, which 39 are still here 10 years later. That's the organization. I also think that you hiring one person that fills the gap of this insecurity curiosity pondering that you're feeling is very, very, very good. And I would hire it from something that is exactly like you. Meaning hire them from an organization where they're the number two or the number three, which is probably even better, that does similar work, whether they represent the talent or the brands. Because I think just feeling your energy, you need to scratch that itch. Just that one first person to be not having a right hand is very discomforting for a leader. I always had that right. I was, I. I recruited my best friend Brandon, to be that with me. And I had my cousin Bobby and I had my dad. And then when I started this, I had aj, right? Then we started bringing people in, James, when AJ was going through his transition. So one final question, please.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

We have like, in terms of our content, what we have been producing in terms of reels and TikTok has been focused on the influencers or what influencers have been doing with us.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Right.

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

But that doesn't get us to the point.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No. What the influencers doing with you run as ads on LinkedIn against CMOs in Canada of brands is what you should be doing. Did you get that?

[Nunu (Influencer Marketing Agency Founder)]

Yep.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What the influence, the work, the content that the influencers do. Then you post. By the way, you want a good one. You green screening video of an influencer doing work with one of your brands and speaking to why this was well integrated or what brands should be looking out for and then posting that. So you green screen it on Instagram. You post it on Instagram, it's gonna get 13 views. You then take that video and post it on LinkedIn and write 15 sentences or 4 or 5. 5. And you make it towards CMOs or heads of media agencies that will get you business. Hey, everybody. If you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention and thanks for being part of this journey. See you later.