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- [00:00]
A
Every little kid now can sit and literally be in their room and have the power of 13 employees. That's insane. So you have to become incredibly good at vibe coding or using AI tools to scale you to get better information. But what you would learn if you're 50 is like, I'm going to actually do it because I need to know it well enough. Cause this is a skill that's gonna be so important that if I always outsource it, I'll never really know it. So I'll never be able to judge it over the next 10 years. This is the GaryVee Audio Experience.
- [00:33]
B
Gary, thank you so much for coming on, like, sincerely. Obviously we've known each other for seven years or something like that, and I've been a fan for a decade and it's just such an honor to have you. So thanks for being on the show.
- [00:43]
A
Yeah, happy to be here, boss.
- [00:44]
C
Cool.
- [00:44]
B
Well, you are seen as like a. I don't even know how to say it. You're seen as a titan in this culture world and someone whose opinion is very much so trusted. So to get started, we got some hot topics I want to ask you.
- [00:56]
A
Get right into it.
- [00:56]
B
We want your vulgar opinion.
- [00:58]
A
Okay.
- [00:58]
B
Please don't hold back.
- [00:59]
A
I won't.
- [00:59]
B
The context on this one, you may have seen it on social. One of the most viral moments of all time at a Got Soul event is Meek Mill negotiating at our event and bartering for a pair of sneakers. The same thing's happened with Fat Joe, it's happened with other celebrities. And there's a huge discourse over should celebrities, rappers, famous people be negotiating with resellers for prices on their sneakers or should they just take the price? So should rappers and famous people be negotiating for their sneakers?
- [01:23]
A
It's none of my business. Here's what I mean by that answer. I obviously have seen that in a negotiation, there's a two way marketplace and there's an exchange happening. Some people, if they bought an expensive pair of rare Jordans, are gonna be as a reseller. And I've been. By the way, what's crazy is I've been on both sides of this as a kid. There were people with clout and importance negotiating with me. And then I became someone who could do that.
- [01:51]
B
Right?
- [01:52]
A
I don't. I. Let me break this all down. Cause I think everyone will agree with me that's watching what two men or two women or a man and a guy do in a transaction deal is really ultimately none of our business. Like, I understand we live in this world now. Where everyone thinks they should have an opinion about every fucking thing. I don't live that life. Here's why. The answer is yes or no. If I'm a reseller, if I'm selling something and Meek Mill is at my table and it's being filmed, I may see that as an investment for marketing.
- [02:29]
B
Right? That was his argument.
- [02:31]
A
Is that his argument? Yeah, he's right. Like there are companies that pay Meek to wear stuff, tons of money. The fuck is a reseller not doing it for his ability or her ability to clip it and run it for their business. On the flip side, if somebody in the comments of this said, gary, no, no, no. Like I fucking worked hard. Fuck Meek Mill. Fuck Gary Vee. I'm like, bet you're allowed to do that. On the flip side, Meek, he's allowed to be like, yo, give me this. He's allowed. Like in real life. It's not like that's illegal right now. Some people might have feelings about that. Why are you using your. He might say, well, because I really think this person is getting value. It's also on the follow up, if I give Meek a free pair of sneakers, if Meek's then putting on seven emerging artists onto my shit and I become that dealer, well that feels better. But that needs to be pre negotiated too. I can't just assume Meek's gonna do that in that negotiation. You can't be mad at Meek. If you believe in capitalism. The dealer's allowed to say no. A lot of people have asked, do you know how many people on my come up asked me to do marketing for free? Cause I needed them. Everyone. I said no every time because I knew I was gonna become who I was gonna become. But in pockets I've done stuff and a lot of times I'll do shit for free before the person even asks. Cause in the micro, I think it's worth it. So long winded to your answer. None of my business. My opinion, I'm agnostic. I think it can and cannot work. And I think every dealer and every celebrity or person with audience are allowed to do whatever they want.
- [04:18]
B
Got it? Okay. So no, hard. Yes. No, it's okay.
- [04:22]
A
Well. Cause I don't think, I don't think, you know, I guess if you like Gary, I'm not letting you off the hood. I would say yes, everybody can do whatever the fuck they want.
- [04:29]
B
Okay.
- [04:29]
A
You know what I mean? Like in essence, I think I am saying this again. It's not like someone's punking him. It's not like Meek's not like my bodyguards are gonna beat the fuck out of you if you don't give me this sneaker, you know what I mean? Meek's allowed to use his equity, which is his fame, to negotiate if he chooses to. Some people will look down on that and say, that's not classy. I'm someone who puts out all of my marketing for free. Like my best advice for free. Tons of people sell it. Close discord, close. Telegrams, fucking courses. Everyone's allowed.
- [05:05]
B
Right? So let him do what he needs to do.
- [05:08]
A
Yeah, I mean, I don't. Again, other dealers are always worried that some precedent is being set that's gonna take away their money. Yeah, that's who's right. I get that.
- [05:21]
B
And I think one other argument and we can go on to the next.
- [05:24]
A
No, no, I'm interested in this.
- [05:25]
B
That was one part was like, oh, don't use your fame. You know, it's bullying. You know, this, that.
- [05:29]
A
But then another, there's no bullying if the other person is like, willing to say no. Like, instead of bullying, how about.
- [05:35]
B
Nobody's putting.
- [05:36]
A
It's not. We're not talking about fourth graders, right, in science class. We're talking about fucking people that decided to buy a table and sell in a fucking commerce environment.
- [05:45]
B
Right. The other argument was Meek Mill's a multi millionaire. He should just pay the price.
- [05:49]
A
I don't impose my opinions of what people should spend their money on.
- [05:52]
B
Right. I personally think he should.
- [05:55]
A
I think there's a lot of people that have that opinion that are dealers that make a million dollars a year that don't tip people.
- [05:59]
B
Right? Yeah.
- [06:01]
A
Like this concept of should imposing your perspective on what is virtuous in the world on other people blows my mind. The same people that are Meeks and multi millionaire that make 200,000 a year slinging jewelry, cards, sneakers, and then fucking don't tip. People at a restaurant are doing the same shit.
- [06:19]
B
Right.
- [06:20]
A
It's all relative.
- [06:21]
B
It's all different scale.
- [06:22]
A
Again, I just, you know, unless someone's doing something illegal. I struggle to get into the virtues. Cause virtues change. I believe in tipping. Not everyone does. They're allowed. They might have grown up in a different environment. I believe in charitable events. I'm very charitable. I don't publicize it, but I write real checks.
- [06:43]
B
Others don't.
- [06:43]
A
Others don't. I do not think someone who's not into charity is lesser than me. I don't wanna peacock you notice. I mean, I bring it up now, we're having a conversation. But I don't Make a lot of content about my charitable right. In fact, I'm very quiet about it. And I definitely won't judge another man or woman just cause they have a hundred million. Like I just, I don't know when everyone decided they were God.
- [07:04]
B
Social media has done that. Everyone does that.
- [07:06]
A
No, social media exposed that.
- [07:08]
B
Okay.
- [07:08]
A
People sat in their kitchen tables and were God.
- [07:12]
B
It couldn't be more true. Next one. I think I already know your answer to this, but people will definitely disagree, which I'm on your side. I know your answer. Are resellers entrepreneurs?
- [07:24]
A
Yes.
- [07:24]
B
A lot of people say no. They're just hustlers. They're just taking advantage of a market. They're not really on the market. The definition of an entrepreneur Business.
- [07:30]
A
Well, I think it is a business, like if you buy and sell something. I mean, I think it's the actual. I don't know if anyone could argue, like what's the. Can someone like ChatGPT or Claude, what's the definition of an entrepreneur? The official Webster let's play right now. I mean, in my mind it is.
- [07:47]
B
I wouldn't agree more.
- [07:48]
A
To me it's, you don't have a job. You work for yourself. You pay for your dinner and your rent through your money. I view entrepreneurship as independence. Yes, sir. Entrepreneur is someone who creates, organizes and runs a business, usually taking on financial risk and hope of making a profit. That's it. I mean, how are you not taking on a risk? You are not, you know. Now if you're saying I have a job and my side hustle is reselling, then you're both ish. It's a side hustle. But anyone, in my opinion, if you listen to that definition, takes the risk. If your whole life, the way you pay for your roof over your head, the food on your table, is based on buying and selling product. If that's the definition of a reseller, well, I would argue that's an entrepreneur.
- [08:30]
B
Okay.
- [08:31]
A
And I would argue that it's an entrepreneurial venture if you have a job and it's your side hustle. Anyone who's saying it's not. First of all, I don't think it means anything to debate. I don't care if somebody thinks I'm an entrepreneur or not. There's also that for every reseller who actually cares if somebody else thinks they're an entrepreneur or not, that's a whole nother conversation for another day, which is like, who gives a fuck?
- [08:55]
B
Yeah, I, I agree. Okay, next one. I think people will definitely disagree or agree with this One, too. You obviously have gotten in the trenches. You've done the garage sales, the whole thing. You've talked a lot about that hustle culture, reselling, you know, flipping world. Is reselling a better call? Or actually, let me rephrase this. So is rephrase. Is reselling a better business education than going to college?
- [09:20]
A
Yes, because supply and demand and buying and selling and learning how to market and create sales and marketing. DNA is a better education because you're doing. And a classroom is listening.
- [09:34]
B
Right.
- [09:35]
A
But, like, working. I think working at a retail store as a cashier is a better education in business.
- [09:42]
B
And a lot of the business teachers now, I went to Babson, they say the number one entrepreneurship school in the world for 30 years. And I'm very happy that I went there. But a lot of those entrepreneurship teachers didn't even start a business or don't run a business themselves.
- [09:53]
A
Yeah. And I've spoken at Babson multiple times and other places like, listen, I'm not listen. I love people learning finances. Like, I think colleges do a good job. And by the way, it's not that I'm mad at college. I just think what you learn from college is very learnable in an AI Back and forth today. And what you really need to learn is, like, the trenches. Like, again, you can watch football film, you can read about football, but you have to get on the field and, like, play football to be a football player. Player. I really do believe entrepreneurship is like that. I'm not against the education. But you went to Babson. I go to all these schools and watch what they're learning. Like, you're learning case studies, and you're learning theories, and you're learning good information of, like, this is what you should do. But there is no should in entrepreneurship because the world changes. You were taught when AI did not exist. Right now what? Hey, everybody. Hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast. That's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show, but follow the podcast. It'll make my mom super happy. Entrepreneurship is true sports. It's merit. The field changes. You can learn basketball. But then Wemby comes along, and he's seven. Seven. And he's got wings standing like, you gotta play dip. Like, I just believe in that. When we talk about entrepreneurship and business, you have to adjust to the reality of the marketplace. I do not think college is built for creatives and entrepreneurs. I'm not against people going to college when their parents pay for it. I hate when Creative or entrepreneurial kids go to college in today's environment and take on staggering debt.
- [11:23]
B
Right.
- [11:24]
A
I do believe most real entrepreneurs will tell you they learned more in the trenches than they learned in school. It's not school's fault you can't keep up with the market.
- [11:32]
B
Of course not. No, I completely agree.
- [11:33]
C
And I think it just boils down to just experience can't be taught.
- [11:37]
A
Correct.
- [11:37]
C
That's plain and simple.
- [11:39]
A
Listen, I was destined to be a very successful entrepreneur. I had it. Fucking boy, I had it. The lemonade stands, the card shows I learned in the trenches. But bro, Gary V like me sitting here today against 25 year old Gary, who fucking built a monster business for his dad. I'm just better.
- [11:56]
B
You've been in it.
- [11:57]
A
I'm just too much inexperience, too much pattern recognition. I figured out my kryptonites along the way. Like, experience really fucking matters. And unlike sports, where your body breaks down, like, do you understand that if LeBron was still physically as talented as he was four years into the league, what he'd be doing right now with his information?
- [12:16]
B
Right.
- [12:16]
A
But that's not how sports works out. But it is how it works out in entrepreneur land. You have no idea how much better you guys are gonna be in a decade. You're gonna be like, that's gonna be laughable. And I didn't really believe it when I sat in your seats. Meaning, like, I thought it was a natural talent like Kobe, like Serena, like. But it's very real.
- [12:34]
B
Well, I think everyone starts in a different point and then the time in is just gonna grow.
- [12:39]
A
Actually, let me stand on some business that I haven't historically, I've talked a lot about being a nice guy. You know, nice guys finish first. All that stuff I put out there, the propaganda that some of the players make fun of me for, it was funny. We were just talking. There's something else. Your reputation becomes your moat. One of the things that's going on with me now is just a lot of people in real life, not on social media, know how nice of a guy I am. And that is giving me a lot of business opportunity.
- [13:06]
B
Right? Yeah. Cool. All right. Those are some of the hot topics.
- [13:09]
A
So that's another thing I'm just saying, for all the kids, one of the reasons it's good to be a good person and not scam people and not fuck with people is when you get to 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, you're trading on your reputation. That equity's enormous when you get to the big leagues.
- [13:23]
B
Yeah. At scale.
- [13:24]
A
At scale, it matters.
- [13:26]
B
Cool.
- [13:26]
C
All right.
- [13:27]
B
Yeah.
- [13:28]
C
And you mentioned the kids and you also mentioned tying all this in. You know, your past experience. You've been in the trenches, you've done it all. But you mentioned today's world is much different than we grew up. Especially when you grew up for sure. So now I want to ask you, how does someone become rich in today's world? Reselling.
- [13:44]
A
I mean, it's easier than ever. Like, I think about this every day. Like, how dead I am that I didn't grow up in your guys era. Like, I would have cooked. Fuck, man. I couldn't even imagine being 16 right now. Vibe coding and using Claude and all these AI tools, using my Insanity of Passion 15 hours a day, being in the trenches, making relations. I mean, it's all the same shit. It's just super tools, right? Like, I had flea markets and the malls of New Jersey. Then there was ebay, which I dreamed to wish I would have had. Then there was StockX and eBay. Then it was discord and social and telegram. And now it's AI. I mean, you've gotta be AI usage. Like every little kid now can sit and literally be in their room and have the power of 13 employees. That's insane. So you have to become incredibly good at vibe coding or using AI tools to scale you to get better information, to scale your relationship. I would sit down right now and create an app that automatically DMed every person on earth.
- [14:50]
B
Oh, I'll pay for it if you make it. Hit me up.
- [14:53]
A
What you're still thinking. This is what's so crazy. How old are you?
- [14:56]
B
26.
- [14:57]
A
This is how fast the game moves. 16 year old, you listening to this? Would know you could build it. But because you're 26, you already are old enough to not think that I could build the app.
- [15:08]
B
No, I know that I could build it. My focus isn't there.
- [15:10]
A
We're tunnel vision and what we want. But what you would learn if you're 50 is like, I'm going to actually do it because I need to know it well enough. Cause this is a skill that's gonna be so important that if I always outsource it, I'll never really know it. So I'll never be able to judge it over the next 10 years.
- [15:25]
B
Right?
- [15:25]
A
Did you see what I just said?
- [15:26]
B
Learning it is huge.
- [15:27]
A
But did you see what I said? Yeah, I get it. Because now you're gonna have 50 kids that are gonna DM you and be like, I can build it. You don't Actually know enough to make the best decision. One of the things that's made me very dangerous is. Cause I do the things I can judge the kids, right? So you start to realize it's worth your hundred hours, even though you're busy as fuck. If it's worth my hundred hours, it's definitely worth your 100 hours. And you start to prioritize the trenches.
- [15:52]
B
Right? Okay.
- [15:54]
A
Makes sense.
- [15:54]
B
No, it makes sense. It makes sense. So how do you get rich reselling, you say? Lean into AI.
- [15:59]
A
Yeah, I think that's clearly one. I mean, like, diversification. My big theory. And you guys know this. You watch me do it publicly that the sneaker kids were going to crush with cards. More inventory, less weight. It worked. I was right. I think there's more categories, like if. And by the way, passions. Like, I'll give you one. Getting into music, physical music. Cassettes, DVDs, CDs. Like, you see what's going on with, you know, you know, Skis. Doing some stuff. I think Aoki did some stuff. I just think everything is gonna.
- [16:28]
B
That's essentially exactly what our expansion is. Like, we've talked.
- [16:31]
A
Correct.
- [16:31]
B
Started with just sneakers and now expanding into all these things. Because all these worlds now. And it's something we're gonna ask you later on, actually. They're all intersecting now more than ever.
- [16:39]
A
This was my theory.
- [16:40]
B
The person that is into sneakers.
- [16:41]
A
Yes, this was my theory.
- [16:42]
B
Enjoys trading cards.
- [16:43]
A
You guys see the video? This was my theory.
- [16:44]
B
So I guess I would ask you then. You know, we've talked more extensively behind the scenes about the gotsoul expansion. I'd love to hear, like, your candid thoughts on where Got Soul's going with this expansion to a culture festival.
- [16:53]
A
It's all gonna come down to execution. What do I think? I think everyone should do everything. It's what I'm trying to do, right? I, like, really have my hands on everything. Like, things that people don't. People don't know that I have a very successful, hot TV production company. You guys don't even know that. I don't talk about Vayner Watt at all. We're about to sell three major shows. Like, there's gonna be a massive show on abc, and it's gonna be Vayner Watt. And you're gonna be like. You're gonna hit Tyler and be like, is that Gary? Like, vaynerwatt. So I'm in TV now with AI Music. I'm like, I'm gonna have the number one rap album in the world. What do I think? I think that your bravado and confidence and prior receipts give you a chance of pulling off what I think you're trying to pull off. Which is like, why wouldn't you be the most important event covering all the genres of interest? Why wouldn't you?
- [17:40]
B
Right, Yeah. I mean, I think it's a no brainer for us. I think Gotsold's positioned the brand in a unique way and already had all these other worlds prior that have come under our roof. So yeah, it's almost a no brainer. Like you said.
- [17:51]
A
Yeah. Why wouldn't you add vintage clothing? Yeah, we have it correct. Why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you add stamps and coins? You will when you eventually think it's worth your operational. I think everyone should achieve to as much TAM as possible the addressable market. Right, tam. I'm obsessed with tam. Like when I make things like veefriends. I built veefriends. Not just to get 8 year olds that collect Pokemon. I'm also making gummies. I wanna be General Mills. Like Flintstone vitamins and Count Chocula fucking cereal. I always talk about Veefriends 3 to 93. I want kids watching cartoons on YouTube. Kids. And I wanna fucking make adult fucking Pampers. Like the pens with fucking, you know, like, you know, like a character on it. I don't give a fuck. Like why wouldn't I want to sell to 9 billion people?
- [18:44]
B
I think that's another piece of advice for the resellers though. Like even for a lot of people.
- [18:47]
A
Watch.
- [18:48]
B
If you're just selling sneakers right now, or you're just selling trading cards, or you're just selling vintage clothes, like you should be exposed into all these worlds.
- [18:54]
A
And I would say if you do it based on passion, then you'll really crush. So there's people flipping sneakers, but they love music way more. They should spend 50 hours understanding what's happening with vintage music materials. DVDs, CDs. Excuse me, CDs, cassettes, records. Like if you love music, like, love it like you're hardcore and like you had an older sister that was into like Grateful Dead and fish things. But you're a hip hop person and your girl's fucking, you know, Hispanic and she's into rig like it's your life, you love it. Like, why don't you spend 50 hours understanding how to flip music posters and tickets and memorabilia like you like it more than sneakers. That's. By the way, the reason I knew sports cards was gonna work is the overlap of kids that were flipping Sneakers that liked sports was high. The overlap of kids flipping sneakers that were gambling on sports apps was high. I knew sports cards was the mapping.
- [19:49]
B
Is sports cards a bubble?
- [19:50]
A
No. It's been around way longer than sneakers.
- [19:54]
B
True.
- [19:54]
A
It's been collected for 100 years.
- [19:55]
B
Do you think that there's any chance.
- [19:57]
A
No. Do I think the market could be frothy? A bubble to me is like something that bursts and dies. Right. Can it be frothy? Sure. So could the stock market, so could gold, so could bitcoin, art, everything. I mean, sneakers were. But they weren't like when sneakers were at their apex before the card movement. It wasn't that it was a bubble. It was that people didn't anticipate trading cards coming in and taking some of the market. Thus once you take the market, if the demand goes elsewhere, all of a sudden it changes. Can something come along and take away from the sports card market? Yes. I think comic books are underleveraged. I think toys are underleveraged. So that might, it might all grow, which is my theory. Just collectibles like Labubus, vintage clothes, handbags like the girls are in now. The girls are in now more than ever, More than ever. And gonna continue to grow. The 50, the 40 to 60 year old dude who grew up with it heavy in the 80s and 90s with me more than ever to this day, I'm getting pinged by very wealthy people saying I'm finally ready to. I just sold a piece of property to create liquidity. I've got 800,000. I'm going into collectibles. I collected cards and comics. Is there anything else I should be looking at? Gary? These are just friends, acquaintances, like we haven't even started.
- [21:15]
B
No, I agree. I mean, you're seeing people like Kevin o' Leary who's spending all this money and people are putting together asset pools now, investment funds. So it's funny because you talked about that what people call as a bubble of the sneaker market. And you know, I agree that if something doesn't pop completely, it's not a bubble. Right. It just has the corrections. Right. So I guess I would ask you now, like going back to a hot topic, the number one narrative now that we see on social media in the world, to the, the sneaker world, their sneakers are dead.
- [21:40]
A
That's crazy.
- [21:41]
B
In your opinion, are sneakers dead?
- [21:43]
A
Well, you know this because we actually had a regular business meeting the other day and I told you that I might be entering and buying some of the top stuff because of my assumption, because I've not really been paying attention. My assumption is, well, it has to be a little softer than it was because all these new things have entered. I don't understand how people don't get. Sneakers have been part of our pop culture forever. They haven't been collected forever. You know, sneakers looked more like trading cards. Trading cards really didn't get collected. Collected, collected, collected as valuable until like the late 70s by my subjective decision. People collected, some people got it. But you started seeing the late 70s, like shows Beckett. Like it started to happen. Then it really popped in the mid-80s. Sneakers, you know, they were unbranded. Then we had the Converse and the Chucks and like nobody was buying Jordans on release, being like, ooh, if Jordan ends up being really great all time. Nobody was saving them, which is why they became valuable.
- [22:37]
B
Right?
- [22:38]
A
But now it's a forever game. It will ebb and flow. And I think it's cycles. Like I don't like to predict, but I find it unlikely that sneakers aren't red hot. More so than cards or NFTs or comics or toys in some 20 year window. I don't know if it's three years from now, I don't know if it's seven years from now. But it's too culturally important and it's on our feet, it's more functional. Like I don't collect sneakers like that, but I buy sneakers to wear, right? So that's more functional than a trading card or a comic. You get the double play with sneakers, you get the collectability and you get the flex. Sitting courtside, going out on a date, you know your boys, you know how it works. Like when I walk in the airport, I'm looking at people's feet and if they got a proper. Like both me and some other guy was wearing the Ben and Jerry's Nike thing one day and we just fucking, you know, dapped it up like a sports jersey.
- [23:29]
B
Correct.
- [23:30]
A
It absolutely is. So I know that it's not the red hot collectible right now in youth male culture, the way it was five, seven, whatever the apex was, it's definitely not dead. And in fact, if you're a long term collector, investor, flipper, like I am, you want to buy on down cycles.
- [23:48]
B
I think now is the best time.
- [23:50]
A
I mean you literally heard it from me in real life. Off the record, at our last meeting, I've never meaningfully collected sneakers. I'm like, oh, I should go and get three to five all time pairs. Cause I'm sure this softer right now because of all the attention to the other asset classes.
- [24:05]
B
1000% people are give me, educate me,
- [24:07]
A
give me a all time top 10 sneaker that was red, red, red hot. Let's say right before things started to move how much it was and how much you can get it for. Now give me one example.
- [24:17]
C
I would know right off the top of my head a 1985. Obviously the age or 19. Jordan one.
- [24:21]
B
The Chicago.
- [24:22]
A
Yeah, the red and black. Yep.
- [24:23]
C
Chicago Jordan 1.
- [24:24]
A
The one that was banned.
- [24:24]
C
Yep, yep. That's the bread.
- [24:26]
A
Okay, got.
- [24:27]
C
So the Chicago is the white and red one.
- [24:28]
A
Got it. Respect. Understood respect.
- [24:31]
C
1985 model. Either the bread or the Chicago.
- [24:33]
A
No, give the Chicago. Give it the real one.
- [24:34]
C
The Chicago would go anywhere from, anywhere from 20 to 40,000 brand new, which is obviously rare and all that.
- [24:42]
A
Yeah, of course. Right in the heyday and yeah, in
- [24:45]
C
the heyday, in the peak of sneakers right now you can get a pair for probably if you can find it, 10 to 15,000.
- [24:53]
A
Yeah, it's awesome. I mean if I heard that right, somebody on earth did pay 37k for a pair. How many years ago?
- [24:59]
C
That was five years ago.
- [25:01]
B
Not even.
- [25:02]
A
Right. And now that same pair could be had for 7k.
- [25:05]
C
At our last event, a pair was for sale brand new in the box. 1985 for 15,000.
- [25:11]
A
Great. So to me again, when I go and do my journey. Cause I haven't and that will be tough for me. Cause I hate Michael Jordan. So I may not buy that. But to me that gets me excited. Cause I'm like, okay, it got to 37. It's 15. That means it definitely 37 has been established. There's gonna be inflation. I'm gonna catch it at a different time. Oh, that's a $55,000 sneaker. On the next red hot cycle. Inflation time. Things change. Oh, that's good. Arp. That's how I think about it. Oh, I think I can make 40k in a 10 year window. The problem is most people listening aren't playing with a big enough bank to make big investments and go to sleep. Everyone's flipping respect, but you flip your way up to be able to go buy some things to invest in. Right. That's how I think about it.
- [25:56]
B
Speaking of kind of analytics behind all this.
- [25:58]
A
Right.
- [25:59]
B
Another thing, when people talk about, oh, the sneakers, you know, the sneaker game is dead. This is what's happened. Do you think that StockX is responsible for, for the sneaker game having the hit that it did?
- [26:08]
A
Absolutely not.
- [26:09]
B
A lot of people say yes because it made it A all about the money and less about the love. What do you think about that?
- [26:14]
A
I don't believe that's the case.
- [26:15]
B
I agree. I mean, Josh has been on the pod. Josh Luber.
- [26:18]
A
It's not even about Josh or StockX. It's just about people blame things for things they've done. Right. Like, let's go back for the love. With all due respect to the white heat moment of five or six years ago, the percentage of people that were in there for the love is now being romanticized.
- [26:36]
B
Right.
- [26:37]
A
The reason it's changed is not StockX. It's that those same people who didn't love it went to another thing because they're just chasing the arbitrage of math of money.
- [26:45]
B
Well, so that's actually the next question. It's like in general, and I think this, this isn't even just for sneakers. This is for trading cards, collectibles, everything.
- [26:52]
A
Right.
- [26:53]
B
Do you think that people who collect collect for the love or do they just collect for the money?
- [26:57]
A
I think people that are collectors collect for the collecting. I just think they're a small percentage in every market.
- [27:02]
B
Right. Is that wrong to collect or be a part of this just for the money?
- [27:06]
A
You think this isn't the Soviet Union? How is there wrong?
- [27:10]
B
I don't think so either.
- [27:11]
A
Of course not. Because you're maturing and maybe you never did. No, I don't know. But I can tell you, like, how can I impose? This goes back to politics. Like, if you grew up in a heavily Democrat or Republican family, right? And like, and your family values were built around an ideology, who am I to tell you that you see the world wrong now there's wrong and right. And I think we can all agree on some things go a little too far.
- [27:39]
B
Right?
- [27:39]
A
But like the concept of convincing people to see the world exactly the way you see it is laughable. And so that's how I see collecting and flipping. Like collectors that shit on people that are flipping and say they ruin it. I understand why. If you're a collector and you just want to own something, it sucks when it's red hot with flippers because now it's 40k instead of 4k. Right? But that's called capitalism. That's called the world.
- [28:06]
B
I agree. And I think going to your point, you were saying a bit earlier on
- [28:09]
A
the flip side, real quick, if I may, like flippers who get caught with the bag because everybody left to go flip something else. They were part of that whole ecosystem. They can't shit on the game. They were exposing right if you get caught with the bag, that's on you.
- [28:24]
B
I agree. And, I mean, you knew that there was a risk. We talked about risk. We talked about risk earlier. And I think one thing that you were saying earlier is a lot of people who are collectors, they say, oh, it's so expensive now. I hate the resellers, but now that everything's lower, they're not buying the things that they say they want.
- [28:37]
A
Well, this shit's expensive. Like, I don't blame someone not spending $15,000 on a pair, but. But yeah. Yes. I think the most. Like, if we wanna get to the punchline, yes, I believe most people on Earth are bitches. But that's okay because, like, you know, like, I'm surrounded by friends and family that are complainers. Right. I get it.
- [28:58]
B
People are gonna complain no matter what.
- [29:00]
A
That's right. I just don't think about that shit. Right.
- [29:04]
B
Joy, I want you to ask the Nike thing. Cause we're talking about complaining. If you go down a little bit.
- [29:09]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [29:09]
A
I think the format you guys are doing, this. We're hitting a lot of stuff. This is fun.
- [29:12]
B
And I don't mean to cut you off. I just want to get.
- [29:14]
A
I like what you're doing.
- [29:15]
B
Okay.
- [29:15]
A
Notice what I just said.
- [29:16]
C
And we mentioned, obviously, the whole Nike thing.
- [29:18]
B
Right.
- [29:19]
A
Okay.
- [29:19]
C
And I mean sneakers. And so obviously, Nike being the leader.
- [29:22]
A
Yes.
- [29:23]
C
In the sneaker world. I want to ask you, obviously, Nike, you've probably seen online and throughout stocks
- [29:29]
B
and stuff, price shows.
- [29:30]
C
Yeah, Nike is down right now.
- [29:31]
A
I don't need to look at. By the way. I'm not paying attention to the conversation. I actually have no idea the stock price. I just know because I look at people's feet, right. I mean, fucking five years ago, every single person had a fucking Nike Panda on. Like, I just look at people's feet. Right. Like, the dominance of Nike six years ago, and it was. Dominance has now been completely decentralized. With the running shoes, with the Reebok, with New Balance. Like, it's just. It's incredibly obvious.
- [29:59]
B
But anyway, I'm gonna ask you about that specifically in a second. But I want you ask yourself.
- [30:02]
C
But my question is gonna be, obviously, you just said everything about Nike. What would you do in today's world right now? What would you do as the CEO of Nike to bring the stock price back up?
- [30:13]
A
That's a great question. I think Nike got caught in a lot of different ways. I think Nike's positioning was always two things. Sports performance, and then they had culture with Air Jordans And Air Force Ones. When they had the heat of the heat with Air Force Ones and culture, they stopped supporting the retailers. They started wanting to go direct. They wanted to keep. And so they hurt a lot of relationships. Right. Then they also got out, innovated some of the running companies, cloud and all that. Like, they started making shoes that people liked better.
- [30:47]
B
Right.
- [30:47]
A
I think Nike needs a full reset. I'd probably do an M and A deal. If I was actually the CEO. I'd probably want to go out and buy something to give us a jolt. Buy what? I'm so not paying attention to apparel. I would go, what would I buy? I actually want to answer this. I would buy.
- [31:06]
B
If Gary Vee was the CEO of Nike, Panini, you'd buy Panini. You'd get in sports cars, maybe.
- [31:12]
A
Well, they don't have sports cards. They don't have the licenses.
- [31:14]
B
Oh, right. Anymore.
- [31:15]
A
Like, Panini's an interesting one because I could probably get it for a lot less than it was worth. I could get into another category, maybe Funko.
- [31:24]
B
So you wouldn't buy in footwear? Like, you wouldn't buy in on Cloud, or you wouldn't buy something like that?
- [31:27]
A
I wouldn't buy there because that's my core competency as Nike. They have enough money allocated to R and D. I might fire my head of R and D and hire the head of R and D from on Cloud. Right. But I would. I would, because I would have more. And I don't know everything about Nike, but I would have more confidence in my ability to innovate the next sneaker than I would creating net new categories for us.
- [31:52]
B
Okay.
- [31:52]
A
I would invest if I. Here's the problem. If I was actually the CEO of Nike, I wouldn't have enough time to do what I would want to do because I'd get fired first. Meaning I would invest in blockchain.
- [32:02]
B
Wow.
- [32:02]
A
You know, I would do. I would diversify the company to win in other areas. Again, I would have confidence that we could make better sneakers. I would probably hire somebody from Chanel or like, whatever is the hottest fucking, you know, apparel business right now. The best creative director. I'd probably hire them, you know, to, like, bring in that culture a little bit into our. Into our. Like, we're in such a bad place with Air Force One. You know, I think they own Converse.
- [32:29]
B
Yeah, they do. They do.
- [32:30]
A
I would probably try to use Converse to combat Reebok and New Balance and let them play like a challenger brand mindset.
- [32:40]
B
Okay.
- [32:41]
A
So you could see kind of where I'm starting to map out my plan.
- [32:43]
B
Okay, okay, Interesting. So you didn't even talk at all about Nike's footwear specifically. Because I think one thing I want to get your opinion on, and this is another hot topic, is Nike's brought back like Joey talked about the Chicago one. They did a lost and found version of that. But they brought back a lot of these really grails. So like an undefeated Jordan 4. It was a really friends and family shoe.
- [33:02]
C
And Joey, it went from being a $40,000 shoe because it was so limited when it first came out years and years ago to now you can buy
- [33:10]
B
a pair on soccer for $250 because it wasn't released.
- [33:13]
A
So my question is, right, so what they did wrong there was they thought because that's out there. Let us get the short term economics of everybody who wants to buy it. But what they killed was the secondary market which actually is driving a lot of their primary. And so they thought short.
- [33:26]
B
I don't think Nike understands that either that that secondary market.
- [33:28]
A
Well, they could watch this clip like Nike. There it is. Like, you know, you're like. Notice how weird I went. I went to conversation to act like Challenger. I believe that our R&D department definitely can compete with any other fucking company. But let's get our shit together. I went to left field. Shit like another collectibles ecosystem because we have the money because we're a big company. Right? Yeah. I think they're too narrow. They want to extract the value out of the secondary market which actually hurt them in the long term.
- [33:56]
B
Yeah, I agree. So the punchline to that, so Nike bringing back all these crazy sneakers that were super exclusive.
- [34:01]
A
I would have never done that.
- [34:02]
B
That was the question.
- [34:02]
A
That's a really bad idea.
- [34:04]
B
I couldn't agree more.
- [34:04]
A
That's a really bad idea. Now what they should have done was they should have bought up all the originals in the secondary and then created ways for people to get them through supporting their short term business. Whoa. Got it.
- [34:19]
B
That is interesting.
- [34:20]
A
Right? So what if every new Nike, so they launch a new Kevin Durant and they tie it into legacy and they say in the Kevin Durant they come up with a new seal on boxes. So it's more like a trading card. And there's golden tickets following legal sweepstakes laws. And every one of us knew that we could get an actual $50,000 pair cause we bought the KD.
- [34:41]
B
This is the GaryVee effect.
- [34:42]
A
Well, yeah, this is like you have to think in those ways. Wow. And that would only work For a little while too. But it's definitely smarter than it sounds like what they did.
- [34:51]
B
I agree. People say bring it back for, you know, let people have. Have access to it. I disagree.
- [34:55]
A
No, because what built Nike's great window five to seven years ago was the secondary market.
- [35:01]
B
Right. Okay.
- [35:02]
A
When you're a company that tries to eat up all the oxygen of all the economics, they fucked. And if that's what they did, which it sounds like, did they do that with a lot of things?
- [35:11]
B
Yes, they did.
- [35:11]
A
Okay. Let me tell you what they then did because I don't like talking when I'm not educated. I wasn't aware. Now I'm a little bit aware. What they did wrong in this five year window was they destroyed two more. They destroyed their retail market. Third party retailers weren't getting the allocation of the hardest stuff. They were controlling it. And they killed the secondary market that was creating heat for their overall new stuff. And now they're left with neither.
- [35:32]
B
Okay.
- [35:32]
A
They have to rebuild that trust with both the retailers and with the collector community.
- [35:36]
B
Okay. We don't have a ton of time and we love you for these long answers. I need like 15 second answers.
- [35:43]
A
I'm allowed to follow your lead. Go.
- [35:45]
C
All right.
- [35:47]
B
Faces of the sneaker world. You know, we had Michael Jordan, obviously retired. Virgil. Rest in peace. Kobe. Rest in peace. You know, Kanye.
- [35:52]
A
Kanye. Yep.
- [35:53]
B
You know, all these people who are faces of the sneaker world who got it to this point are no longer the face of the sneaker world. Who's the next face of the sneaker world?
- [36:00]
A
No idea.
- [36:02]
B
Does the sneaker world need a face?
- [36:03]
A
It doesn't hurt. It doesn't hurt.
- [36:05]
B
Okay.
- [36:06]
A
Doesn't hurt.
- [36:07]
B
Okay.
- [36:08]
A
Oh.
- [36:09]
B
Could Adidas overtake Nike?
- [36:11]
A
Everybody can overtake everybody. That's the coolest part of business. You know, it depends on what time frame and things of that nature. But everyone can take over everybody.
- [36:20]
B
Okay. Is supreme making a comeback? Could it be ever what it was?
- [36:24]
A
100,000% supreme. Is biggest. Is represents one of the biggest thesises I have that once hot, always in play to be hot again.
- [36:34]
B
Got it. Could it be bigger than it ever was?
- [36:36]
A
Harder. Harder. Harder to be like, you know how big it was you guys probably were. Yeah, harder. But look what Crocs did. Crocs took over the world in a different way in the 90s. Way bigger. And had a really good run. I think it's starting to slow down a little bit. But like three years ago. Yeah, you saw that. You guys got to see that. I mean, no cool kid would Wear a pair of Crocs for a decade. Right now, no cool kid really wants to wear Supreme. It'll be away for long enough and somebody's gonna reboot.
- [37:03]
C
Okay, my question to that is now my follow up to that is Supreme. Obviously, it's Comeback. What's your thoughts on Chrome Hearts? Come back right now.
- [37:12]
A
I'm not educated enough.
- [37:13]
B
Okay.
- [37:13]
C
Okay.
- [37:14]
A
I just don't know. I don't like answering things. I'm not educated about Chrome Hearts enough to really know 100%.
- [37:19]
B
Okay.
- [37:20]
A
By the way, that's maybe the most important everybody who's watching. Like, that might have been the most important part of the whole interview. Like, I am very convicted with my takes and things of that nature. But so many people are trying to build personal brands right now and talk about shit they don't know. The I don't know is so powerful. I hope that what I just did, where everyone's like, whoa, Gary Vee's not on. No, I'm not. I'm just still a human.
- [37:45]
B
Right.
- [37:46]
A
I don't know everything. I know a lot. Cause I watch pop culture enough. But more of you should say, I don't know or I'm not sure or I'm just starting to figure out. It will really benefit you.
- [37:57]
B
Got it. Okay.
- [37:57]
A
Anyway, a few more. Sorry about that.
- [37:59]
B
We saw Logan Paul's Pokemon card.
- [38:01]
A
Yes.
- [38:01]
B
Sold for over 6 million. What's the next collectible asset that could sell for that high of a figure or more?
- [38:07]
A
I'm very bullish. Comics I haven't started buying, so I hate to put it out publicly because I'd like to get some. But I think comics are sitting in a really good spot. Also, the mix of comics and cards, something I have been buying that I'm obsessed with is vintage fictional character trading cards.
- [38:21]
B
Okay.
- [38:21]
A
1940, Superman's graded rookie card. Could get crazy. It's in the hundreds of thousands. I think it'd be 20 million. I'm very bullish on that. I think cards in comics are really sitting pretty. I do think video games, toys, music, physical collectibles all have a shot. And I do think clothes, including sneakers, all have. All of these things are in play. They're all in play.
- [38:45]
B
Next one. Traditional assets like real estate and stocks or non traditional newer assets like trading cards, sneakers? What are you investing your money into more today?
- [38:54]
A
Me personally? Yeah, the latter.
- [38:56]
B
Okay. Do you think that new age collectibles are a better investment than real estate, stocks, and traditional investments today?
- [39:02]
A
I actually think old collectibles are a better investment than new Age, collectibles are dangerous.
- [39:06]
B
Okay, so collectibles in general, are collectibles a better investment than traditional investments like stocks and real estate? Yes or no?
- [39:12]
A
In a macro. Today it's even. Let me explain what I'm gonna explain. In a macro. It's even. Stocks and real estate have the equal opportunity to be remarkable as collectibles. First, the fact that collectibles is even in this conversation is bonkers to everyone. Second, it's been proven over the last five years that there's a lot of exciting things that have happened in collectibles. But don't get it twisted. Like, people have made real money in playing Miami properly. People have made real money in playing Nvidia. Yeah, like you could have bought a fucking Michael Jordan rookie card. Or Charizard. Nvidia worked. We make the mistake of saying everything in the macro. Here's the third part. I get much more joy out of owning a collectible that goes from I bought it for 50k and it goes to 2 million than I do from owning 50,000 in a stock that goes to 2 million.
- [40:02]
B
It's more of a gotcha, essentially.
- [40:04]
A
Yeah. It's just for me personally, it's more enjoyable. It's not more. More of a flex for every person, but for me, it's more enjoyable. And that's why the fact that that was even a conversation is wild. Is wild. But you can lose a fuckload of money in all three. 100%. And you can make a lot of money in all three and know your shit. If you really know real estate and you don't know collectibles, or if you know stocks, focus on what you know.
- [40:29]
B
Got it. Everyone watching out now. Everyone watching right now that thinks, oh, you're cutting them off. We're going quick. We only have limited time.
- [40:34]
A
Yes, he's doing the right thing. And I cut off everybody when I podcast. So I'm good with this.
- [40:37]
B
Got it. Is celebrity dead? When it comes to influence and collectibles,
- [40:42]
A
I don't know if it's dead, but I'm glad that it's more thoughtful.
- [40:45]
B
Okay.
- [40:45]
A
I don't think people blindly will. Like, I even feel comfortable starting to. I stopped talking about specific things. Even the fact that I just brought up vintage fictional characters. Spider Man, Thor. I wouldn't have done that for three, four years. Cause I was scared that people would speculate on my work.
- [41:00]
B
Right.
- [41:01]
A
I'm starting to be a little more comfortable talking about things I believe in and like, because I know people won't blindly follow me.
- [41:07]
B
Okay.
- [41:08]
A
That's good.
- [41:08]
B
Right?
- [41:09]
A
Right.
- [41:09]
B
Okay. What's the one thing that the collectible culture is missing right now?
- [41:18]
A
Time. It's just a matter of time.
- [41:22]
B
Okay.
- [41:22]
A
It's gonna get so much bigger.
- [41:23]
B
I agree.
- [41:24]
A
So we're seeing that female thing. I just referenced it. We're seeing some of those $800,000 OG guys and girls going in for the first time. We're seeing people be smarter and not just buy something. Cause I tweeted it. Or Aoki or Logan Paul. Like, everything's getting better.
- [41:40]
B
We're just getting started.
- [41:41]
A
Yeah. It's just time for it to mature and get cleaner. Get rid of all the riff raff, have it more professional.
- [41:47]
B
Got it. Okay.
- [41:49]
A
Keep going, keep going. I'm in charge always. He's just keeping me educated. Got it.
- [41:55]
B
We're getting pretty much now. If you were Gotsol's head advisor, what's the one piece of advice you would give us?
- [42:01]
A
Hire faster and fire faster and promote fastest.
- [42:06]
B
Okay.
- [42:07]
A
You've got a lot of ambition. I know you a little bit now. I think you got it. You need more people. People is what is gonna make you more successful. You have to hire them to even know who are your boys or girls. Like, Right. If you don't hire someone, you don't know if they're good or not.
- [42:23]
B
Right?
- [42:24]
A
Right. You also, once you hire, you have to be able to make better decisions on if they're good or bad. Quickly, quickly. You know, you gotta give people a chance. If you're like, oh, Jeremy sucks, it's not like, oh, Gary told me to fire. No, no. Hey, Jeremy, I think you might suck. Let me tell you why I believe that you're fucking. Really? I could see what you're doing. You're really just hitting on the girls on the floor, like whatever it is. Right. Like you're trying to steal our clothes and do your own thing, which is fine. But you can't do that on my dime. Like you're just a pro.
- [42:51]
B
Okay. Hire fast, fire faster. That's the number.
- [42:54]
A
And promote fastest. If on the flip side, you hire Jeremy and he's fucking 15 hours a day when he doesn't have to fucking, you know? Yeah. Like people make that mistake.
- [43:06]
B
They try to keep people down.
- [43:07]
A
Yeah. They're like, oh, I'll say, oh, this guy's awesome. Oh, I got a whole year before I have to give him a promo or a raise. No, no. You show a fucking winner that you see them quickly. You can change the calculus. They're there with you for four years instead of a year. And a half. Got it right. So they've been seen last two things, this and that. By the way, all of that comes out of just how much money you take home. Right. Like the key is the reason I keep telling everyone to do what I'm saying is too many people want too much from their business. Early on, both companies that I built up were Massive Wine, Library and Vayner. I made literally 40, 50, 60,000 a year into my 30s.
- [43:44]
B
Yeah, okay, got it. We want to give you your flowers. Want to say this, I mean this in the bottom of my heart, like someone who's looked up to you for a decade. Right. And I remember we drove from Babson in a snowstorm just for you to sign those sneakers. You signed like 20 pairs for us and we gave a bunch away with our non profit and me and my friends got stuck in a snowstorm and missed class the next day coming to see you. And I had never been so nervous meeting anybody in my life. And why I was nervous, not because there was this person on the camera that I was going to meet and oh, okay, this is this big moment for the business. It's because is this guy going to be who I expect him to be? And you've been that. We've talked off camera multiple times. We've had meetings, all these things. You've been that times a hundred. And I just want to give you your flowers to say, listen, we've had the pleasure to build something that means something, to have these meetings. The vast majority aren't going to get to that point. What you give the world with no ask, with just give is going to pay exponentially. You know it because you, Steven, say it is selfish in the long term because it's going to pay back to you 100 times.
- [44:46]
A
Of course, karma's practical.
- [44:47]
B
The value that you've given to people like ourselves off camera, on camera is paying dividends to generations that you won't even see. And I just want to give you a thank you for myself from Joey, from our team, from our family, the thousands of entrepreneurs who will never get to say thank you. I just want to say thank you for everything you give. And that comes to my last question. You have literally millions of fans. People do this. S tier A tier. A lot of people now even say you're like the goat, content entrepreneur, goat social entrepreneur, you name it. For all those millions of fans that are out there that love you, that have watched you for years, what's your one message for all the fans back at home? That's Your camera right there. Don't even look at me. Tell them. What's your one message?
- [45:27]
A
That nothing you do professionally actually matters. Which is bonkers, right? If you just listen to that setup. The part of that setup that meant the most to me is people knowing I'm a nice human being and that I've helped matter so much more to me than the zeros in my bank account. I know the cliche response. Easy for you to say now that you have it. I got it. Because that's who I was. And the people that really have known me the whole time know you must live your life. Like, you have to hear me on this notice. Even in this interview, I said, if you love music more, but you make more money in cards and comics, go all in and learning music, because flipping music's gonna make you happier in your soul. What makes me happy in my soul was these flowers. There's no money I make that ever makes me feel better than the moment I just had. People knowing I'm a good guy and me knowing that, then it affects them so that they'll be a good guy to the girl or guy that comes and sees them in 15 years that I'm setting the framework, that I am literally one of the few people on the Internet that like, no, nice guys win. Nice guys win. Nice guys win. Be nice. Like, I know. I mean, somebody left a comment to a post I did yesterday that got like 1000 likes on TikTok that said, this is the king of time. Toxic positivity. And I laughed. I laughed that we live in a world where people really believe there's something called toxic positivity. I'm not delusional. Does anybody listen to what I say? Toxic positivity is slang for delusion. I'm selling you all delusion that life can be good or that it's nice out there or it's not as bad as you think. That is insanity. To me. It's the truth. But you've all believed the naysayers. You've believed the cynics, the politicians, the scared parents and teachers and bosses. You're allowed. But I'm telling you right now, fuck fear. Fuck fear and go get yours. And if you actually believe you can't because someone told you it's tough for your gen. Gen Z's fucked by the boomers and you'll never be as successful. Or sneakers are dead and you're fucked. Cause you got a closet and a warehouse. If you believe you're dead. Do you fucking understand? You're dead. I'm not saying this is the secret. All of this is hard work. I've got two admins and a whole team behind me looking over my shoulder right now. Cause I'm four minutes late. That's how valuable my time is. It's all fucking work. But I promise you, if you don't choose practical optimism, meaning you have to be optimistic that you can, because it's true, you can. You might have to go through therapy. You might have to cut all your fucking toxic friends out. You might have to stop popping pills and smoking weed. You might have to do a lot of shit, but you can. I know you can. I've been on the receiving end of thousands of you who weren't you, who were fucking already set up for winning. And it just had to be a little like, truth of love, like I didn't let you down and you kept listening. I've met thousands of not you. Fucking real drug use, abusing their girl, really fucked up. Hating the world only like trying to build out of fear and hate, not out of love and optimism. And I've watched my content and my interactions and many others that do what I do. Convert these people to straight gangsters. And that's what I want for you. I don't want you to have a shit fucking life. That's my rant. I do not want you to have a shit fucking life. And I promise you, it's this and that's that.
- [48:50]
B
Gary, we love you. We are so excited to do more with you. Thank you.
- [48:52]
A
Can't wait. Thank you. Thanks everyone. Everybody Fuming. Enjoyed this podcast. Please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention and thanks for being part of this.