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- [00:00]
A
The algorithm, first of all, is just consumer attention. So on the record, I am only making things to fuel the algorithm because my interpretation of the algorithm is if it gets views, it can only get views if it's actually relevant to customers, not the industry. Two on the record, I have a brand called Veefriends, which is like a Disney, Pokemon, Marvel World. We are faster and the creative is better. So AI when used properly is going to be faster and is going to be better if you define better as content that actually gets views that sells product. This is the GaryVee audio experience.
- [00:48]
B
I'm really honored to be here to talk about AI and creativity. It's sort of the topic of the moment. We spend a lot of time thinking, but also writing about this topic. And we've got a great panel which I'll introduce in a second. But our sort of thesis about AI and especially brands right now is that this can is sort of like the inflection point where brands go from curious tinkers to actual developers and programmers regarding AI and creativity. So I think that's a really interesting, you know, place where we should start. We have speed and scale, but is that useful really ultimately, when you're trying to reach consumers and then you've got brands who again are starting to lean more into it. They've sort of broken from the fear and fetish cycle that they've been with AI and creativity and are actually doing some really interesting things. So, but let me introduce the panel and we'll get right into it. We have Resh Sidhu, who is the vp, Adobe Brand Studio.
- [01:52]
A
Peter Clack.
- [01:54]
C
Yeah, man, yeah.
- [01:56]
B
Grace Gao, who is a CMO of Snap. And then of course, Gary Vaynerchuk, CEO of VaynerMedia. Okay, so let's start with an all play. What are people doing now with creativity and AI that really isn't useful? What's. What are they stuck in terms of legacy behavior that they need to break from really quickly? Gary, do you want to start?
- [02:19]
A
Sure. I'm always excited to talk about what people are doing that's useless, which is a shocking percentage of everything that's happening here this week. My early read on what I'm seeing, and let's maybe break down this because I think this will frame up the conversation. There's this industry which is very corporate Fortune 500. You have to be incredibly empathetic of what these new tools mean. The legal departments, compliance, blah, blah, blah. Then you've got, let's call it smaller businesses that are going from 0 to 50 million in revenue and the way they're using it and then human, individual, creative people, solopreneurs. I think the thing that our industry is doing poorly is they're not extracting the advantages of AI as a thinking partner. They're just basically doing what they would have done in a conference room with magazines and post it notes and markers which looked like, let's all ideate and come up with some creative work. But what it was code for is one or two of us at the end are just going to make what we want to subjectively make and we're going to waste a lot of time and money and energy. And they're bringing that same energy to AI, which is they're basically imposing. They're not coming with curiosity or creativity. They're coming with subjective audacity and insecurity and are just using the AI to make the thing that they want to make, thus rendering this extraordinary tool and tool set useless. And that is the biggest mistake that's being made. It's not what they want you to think. All the creative agencies out there, they're gonna pontificate to you with the hopes that you write this. They're gonna say AI slop. And it's not high fidelity and it doesn't have soul. That's not the problem. Almost all of advertising is slop long before AI came along.
- [04:29]
D
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- [04:59]
A
What the issue is is not using the tools to the magnitude. And I would say looking at our wonderful global chief strategy officer, I would say strategists, even more than creatives, have the biggest upside to use these tool. As someone who self identifies as a strategist, when I have a hypothesis or a curiosity of what consumers are doing, I used to spend hours and hours and hours using the Internet, whether it was Reddit or Google or social media to sharpen my consumer insights. The ability to use AI to get to real answers quickly. I'm asking such crazy prompting. Like in the late 40s, what happened in cosmetics that I mean like really crazy shit that I could only dream of coming up with after 15 hours of research is now getting to better answers in 15 seconds, which then becomes foundational to whatever creative interpretation I want to make. So it is not the AI slop. It is not using the tools properly.
- [06:06]
B
Grace.
- [06:08]
E
Yeah, just building off what Gary said, I think there's an over pivot on the tool itself. Like we're talking too much about the tool and being in awe of the tool versus still holding us all at a higher standard of what we're creating. You know, I think that there's just too much conversation in regards to like, AI made this, Did AI not make this? Versus actually still having everything that we've always been in the industry for is like, does it still hold up to the standards of us as a creative industry?
- [06:37]
A
Well, I would say, if I may, Grace, if I may, because that was really interesting, that last part. That last part is something I can't get out of my head, which is how much of the energy of this whole week is about us making work for us. Right. Held up as a creative industry.
- [06:56]
E
Totally fair.
- [06:57]
A
Right?
- [06:57]
E
Like me.
- [06:58]
A
What just like burns me inside is like, I don't know about all of you, but I think marketing is supposed to help a business grow.
- [07:05]
C
Yeah.
- [07:07]
A
And so I think, I think it's a good point. And I think that's where I think it's an important point that you made. But when it goes too far, this industry makes for its industry. We're about to give ourselves a bunch of awards for work that did not help our businesses.
- [07:22]
C
Yeah, totally.
- [07:23]
A
Is anybody else, like, weirded out by that?
- [07:25]
C
Yeah.
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D
Yeah.
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C
But we've been doing it for over 20 years. So I'm like, but doing wrong shit
- [07:31]
A
for a long period of time doesn't mean we should keep doing it.
- [07:33]
C
But now's the time to say, with what's happening with AI, now's the fucking time. Because as a creative and funny story, Grace is my old boss at Snapchat. I'll tell you what the problem is for a creative. Trained as a graphic designer, came through the whole industry, love the Internet, self taught Brit, West London, inner city London. And I tell you what the fucking problem is for every creative is all of you marketers, our bosses, they're like, hey, Rash, and your wonderful creative team. Now AI is here. Press that fucking magic button. Make stuff faster and make it look fucking great. Nothing is faster and everything looks like shit. And so it all falls on the creative teams to go, well, what, what is actually happening right now? And the thing we should pull back from is say, why are we making the stuff we're making, ask the question, why? Why are we making it right now? And if you don't have a reason why, because does it actually impact your business or does it actually. Are you actually closer to what is happening in culture and your audience or you just making stuff to feed the algorithm?
- [08:37]
A
Yeah, but I would say the algorithm, first of all, is just consumer attention. So on the record, I am only making things to fuel the algorithm because my interpretation of the algorithm is if it gets views, it can only get views if it's actually relevant to customers, not the industry. Two on the record, I have a brand called Vee Friends, which is like a Disney, Pokemon, Marvel World. We are faster and the creative is better. So AI, when used properly, is going to be faster and is going to be better. Better if you define better as content that actually gets views, that sells product. Hey, everybody. Hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast. That's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show, but follow the podcast. They'll make my mom super happy. If you consider better a Creative Director at Droga5 Pontificating out of fear. If they think it's better or worse, it will be worse.
- [09:42]
B
Resh, what is, from your perspective, what is broken in the creative process that people aren't paying enough attention to?
- [09:50]
C
I think two things are really interesting right now from creative teams, and I just left Grace and joined Adobe for this particular reason, for this moment right now, because I don't think I spent a lot of time building amazing creative teams. All different types of creative teams that have adopted different technologies. Regardless of the technology, whatever came, I think diverse, very kind of, you know, hybrid mindset. Creatives can build amazing things. I do truly believe that. What I'm seeing is two things is obviously AI is great for creatives because it means creatives don't have to do the busy work. I call it the busy work. The stuff that used to take hours to do. We don't have to do that. The question is, okay, so what do you. So here's the thing. People think that creative roles are going to disappear. They're not going to disappear. They're going to change. If you take one thing away, your creative teams, their roles will change, not disappear. Everyone's like, we don't need creatives anymore, Ash. I'm like, all right, give you six months and when you come back to me, I can bet you a million dollars you will. Because creatives now can be better strategists, better thinkers, and they get closer to culture, closer to the work. They have more time thinking about the ideas and the things that they really need to solve. Why I can do more of the mundane stuff. That's the first thing. Second thing is, as businesses, you need to build the infrastructure. So we're hiring new roles. We're hiring what we are calling builders, system builders. Because if you want your businesses to implement AI, you have to bring in production ops and system ops, because the creatives aren't going to do that. We need to focus on the work and the creative. So we've actually hired production ops to come in at Adobe and actually streamline and think about what tools are we going to use? Do they work? Do they make sense? Do they actually make the process better?
- [11:41]
A
I assume you're going to use Adobe
- [11:42]
C
tools, All of the Adobe tools. But also, you know what I think we have to really think about? The Adobe tools are great. We also. Customer zero as a creative, how do we make them better so we can make everybody's workflows really good.
- [11:56]
E
But I would say resh. When you say production ops and system ops, which I completely agree with you, do you also feel that as a creative, you will also be able to do those yourself?
- [12:06]
C
I think creatives are gonna have to grow that bleep up. Because you really have to be thinking about what is my role. I call it this new breed of creative. What is my role? Right now you don't have to master AI tools. And if anyone is saying they're a master, if you say you're a master, I'm like, fuck you.
- [12:21]
E
You're not.
- [12:22]
C
No one's a master. Because. Because the tools, I mean, just get it spicy. It's all right, we're all friends. But it's like mastering that. It's not for mastering the tools. It's just like being fluent in the tools, understand what they can do for you.
- [12:35]
A
I. I'm sorry to interrupt the. The concept of mastering AI tools. There's a lot of youngsters here. There's a couple of us with gray hairs there. This is going to. Especially if you're under 40. You're about to laugh. There was people in the late 90s that are like, I've mastered the Internet.
- [12:52]
C
It's so true.
- [12:54]
A
Like, like, to your point, there's no mastering. Like, the concept of AI is like no different than the concept of having a computer or having the Internet. This is oxygen. There'll be no conversation of like, AI in the way we talk about it today, in five years, because it's going to eat up all the oxygen.
- [13:13]
E
Like, like digital creatives.
- [13:15]
C
Yeah.
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A
It's like always the same grace.
- [13:19]
B
Brands are creating more content than ever. I mean it's a tsunami of content, but it's more content, better marketing.
- [13:26]
E
Oh my goodness. You know, is it true? I am vibing what Resh is saying as well as Gary is like, I think everything isn't going to. There's not going to be a disappearance of creative people, there's not going to be disappearance of marketers. It's just that it's going to all evolve and I think it's going to put a lot of pressure on all of us as individuals that we have to actually be multi talented. You aren't going to be just one function. You should be able to be able to do all these different things. But I think what I also love and vibe to everything is that even though maybe our roles are changed, there'll be fundamental things about our industry that still work, which is having a great human insight, having great briefs, holding up to high standards, us kicking the tires, us giving each other shit when the work is bad like that those foundational things still need to exist.
- [14:13]
B
Gary, earlier in this year you were one of the first people to say, I don't really want to talk to the CMO anymore, I want to talk to the cfo. How does that translate to getting better creative out of brands?
- [14:27]
A
I don't know if it translates to getting better creative. I think the last two questions are interesting. First of all, what is better creative? Second of all, is volume a good thing? This town will say it's a bad thing. I will remind this town that 60 years ago there was no content. That if, if they're mad at volume of content, they're part of the problem. Because the last 20 years created way more content than there was ever before. It's called evolution. Shit changes, distribution changes. The reason I talk to CFOs is, and talking more to CFOs is CFOs right now in the world. CFOs are on group chats with each other, making fun of everyone here. They think this is a joke. They're fucking pissed. There are many people that are not here that were supposed to be here. We got emails from them because their business is getting soft and their CFO told them they're not allowed to come. The reason we're talking to CFOs is in this moment of AI social becoming primary, not tertiary. There's a lot of confusion in the ecosystem and CFOs are very aware that they're wasting a lot of money and they don't like that. The reason I like talking to CFOs is the theme that I've been bringing to this panel is we can pontificate about ideology but to remind everybody like marketing. Why, why am I in love with marketing? I'm in love with marketing because even if your product, even if your product objectively by 8 billion people standards is inferior, it is communication and relevance that can actually help you grow your business to outsize your product offering. That is profound and it's why it's so important. CFOs are starting to really put the screws at a tight and level that I've seen over the last 20 years to ask their CMOs to start really proving, you know, brand lift study. Like how many more meetings can a CFO sit through where the CMOs like great news. Brand lift studies are greater than ever. Our consideration is up. We just want a can lion for most creative. He's like, motherfucker. We're down in sales. So I think the shit's hitting and this is why I'm so passionate to talk about this because now I've been doing this a long time. You start caring about the people you do business with and the rubber's about to hit the road and maybe they won't. They're not going to replace CMOs with AI, but they're definitely going to replace their CMO with a CMO that understands how to use AI and like that. This is an important moment in the industry and we, we need to wake up because drinking fucking rose to one o' clock in the morning here and being like I came up with that campaign 13 years ago. It's not going to cut it.
- [17:25]
E
But, but Gary, to your point, I think they're going to replace CMOs who still can't own move the business. Right? It's not alone. Just understand AI, you still need to move the business.
- [17:33]
A
By the way, no cfo, by the way, I on the record quote it, I could give a fuck about. I, I care about what it might mean to move the business. I don't care about creativity. I don't care about AI. I don't care about the big idea and I equally deeply care about all of them. But only measured and scored by business, not.
- [17:54]
C
I can call you out, please. You care about creativity. Look at this place.
- [17:58]
A
I'm going to call you. Listening you look, did you hear what I said while you were yapping to him that you were going to jump.
- [18:04]
C
What did I miss?
- [18:05]
A
You missed.
- [18:06]
C
Damn it.
- [18:06]
A
Let me help you.
- [18:07]
E
You care.
- [18:08]
C
You care.
- [18:09]
A
I'm going to help.
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C
I've been at Vcon. You care.
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E
I've got it with Fresh. For someone who doesn't care creative creativity, you're. You're excellent.
- [18:15]
A
Yes, exactly.
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C
That's my help.
- [18:16]
A
I am fascinated by your inability to hear what I just said.
- [18:20]
C
And I missed it though.
- [18:21]
A
Let me say it again while you were yapping these guys, I don't care about AI, I don't care about creativity, I don't care about the big idea and I equally care about creativity, AI and the big idea, as long as it drives the business.
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C
I didn't hear that.
- [18:34]
A
I know you were telling him what you were about to do, which I love because I do that shit too. Yeah, dude, but I listen and talk.
- [18:41]
C
Tell you what though, the best creative teams do drive business. The best creative teams actually care about the details. The best creative. And I think. But here's the thing, but a creative need. Creative teams need better mentors. They don't need the douchebags drinking rose at whatever time talking about their 10 year old campaign. But creative teams need better creative mentors right now to be able to say yes, come up with a great idea, but care about the insight, care about the problem and look, did it actually move the business if it's. You failed that. We've been doing that.
- [19:11]
A
But listen, with all due respect to our wonderful industry, that does not have enough oxygen in the room and there's multiple reasons. One, and this is a good article for your world, we must talk about what happened in the late 90s when media and creative got separated into two different agencies.
- [19:29]
C
Right.
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A
See that, right? That, that's at the crux of this.
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C
Once it became this and not as fun. Yeah.
- [19:38]
A
And, and that's why if you look at Olaplex, who's in the room, like brands that built from the modern trenches, creative and media were together measured against a business result. And we put all those brands on a pedestal. We Gruens, Liquid Ivy, they all do the same thing. Media and creative together.
- [19:55]
C
It's really interesting, you know how we're thinking about Adobe and the creative team. So you know, Laura and Stacy hired me and they're like, come and think about what this new creative era is like. Look at the teams, the roles are changing, different roles, but beginning to think now like a media company, like an entertainment company. And when you start beginning to think like oh like that, you start thinking about the roles and the type of work that you're doing the type of mindset that you need in. In that. So, yeah, okay, I'll.
- [20:19]
B
I'll play. I'll start with Gary. In service of your primary objective, business objectives. What's. What do organizations have to be brave
- [20:29]
A
enough to call on the internal mmm? There's not one mmm or MMA in this entire town that's worth a penny. It's a complete farce. The entire industry in media is B based on borderline fraud and everyone's completely full of and extracting money out of the biggest brands in the world selling straight fugazi.
- [20:55]
C
Boom.
- [20:56]
A
All right, Grace, it's scoring your homework backwards to justify television.
- [21:05]
F
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- [21:07]
A
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- [21:09]
F
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- [21:11]
A
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- [21:15]
F
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- [21:40]
E
I. I don't even know how do I follow that. I think when we talk about bravery, maybe I will say, you know, on Snapchat, I'm still really inspired by this next generation of youth. Like when I see the amazing consumers or youth culture that is happening, I am so excited. Okay. And I'm also biased because I have a 15 year old and a 17 year old. They're like the most positive creative generation.
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A
Sounds like great mothering.
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E
No, try when? We'll try.
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A
Really.
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E
And so I think that would be the only say is like for. For bravery. If you can look at this youth audience and seeing how brave that they are putting themselves out there, they're trying to make a living, like they're trying to stay positive.
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A
They're actually creative.
- [22:24]
E
That is correct. Yeah. And so I think it goes back to again, some foundational things like look at your audience, look at this next generation of people. You'll find the actual inspiration in humans.
- [22:39]
C
The question, I mean, the question is you got to look at your current teams and people in there and say, the old God is dead and the new God is coming in and are you ready for it? You know, the king is dead. Long live the king. Or queen or queens, everybody.
- [22:57]
A
If you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention and thanks for being part of this.
- [23:07]
G
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