← The GaryVee Audio Experience
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome Back to the OGs of Playmaker. Original presented by DraftKings. And we have a very special guest in the building today. A lot of people don't know what we in. When me and Mike talk about doing podcasts, we didn't want to do athletes originally. You know, we wanted to kind of stay away from athletes. You understood we know sports, we could talk about sports all day. So this is a very special opportunity for us. He built a $60 million Y business. Serial entrepreneur investor who bet on Facebook, Snapchat, Twitter early. He runs a media empire. I'm not even gonna bring that jets up. We gonna go for the jet. Gary Vee in the building, ladies and gentlemen.
- [00:37]
B
Thank you, my man. Thank you, my man. It's a pleasure to be with you.
- [00:40]
A
So, I mean, we got a lot to cover, so this is very exciting for me. I very rarely have people on that. I can learn something from that. I mean, we have a lot of athletes on. Athletes. Can't tell me I did. I mean, I know a lot about that. But for me, obviously, being born in the Soviet Union now, what was life like? Because I know where I'm from, I'm from Liberty City. We think we got it rough. Yeah, tell me what rough really is.
- [01:02]
B
You know what's funny is I think about that a lot because I grew up, so I moved to the States when I was three and a half, four, So I didn't really live in the shit my parents lived in either. But when we came to America, we were broke. You know, I lived in a studio apartment with five, six family members in Queens. And then I grew up in Edison, New Jersey, went to Martin Luther King elementary School. And so. And then I was a terrible student and went to a straight up hood college, Mount Ida College, where all my boys were on financial aid, came from this fucking hood hood. And I was just telling you off camera, one of my boys just turned 50, grew up in Brockton. Like real shit. And it was funny growing up in that culture. And I was a jersey boy. East Coast, 80s, 90s, urban culture was getting so cool. You know, having my Adidas with no laces in sixth grade was the apex of my life. And because of the stories my parents told, my parents didn't have both my parents grew up in a house that didn't have a bathroom in the house. Like they had to go to the outhouse. Like, the Soviet Union in the 50s, 60s, 70s was like America in the 20s, 30s, and 40s. And so. And then my parents raised. And I was the oldest from the old country. I have two siblings that were younger. What I got brought up with was a real framework of just being grateful for what we had versus being envious for what you don't have. As you know, especially growing up in sports, your situation, I know enough because I'm a big sports fan and I know a lot. You know, a lot of guys grow up with so little. And there's only two things that happen when you grow up so little. You either become grateful for what you have and become hungry and ambitious, or you become cynical and you get fucked up and you get angry and you let jealousy and envy become your fuel. So I got lucky in that I wasn't jealous when on Christmas, all my friends around me got more. Because even as my family was growing out of poverty into a middle class life through my childhood, my mom kept it real fucking poor. She didn't buy like, my mom wasn't in the business of buying shit. Money was for food, even clothes. My dad worked at a liquor store from second to eighth grade. Every T shirt I had was fucking Hennessy Budweiser. We didn't buy clothes, we definitely didn't buy soda because my dad got it from the liquor store. We just didn't spend money. So real quick, by the time I was seven, eight, if I wanted toys. And then definitely by sixth grade, when Nintendo came out, video games, my mom was on some gangster shit of like, yeah, on your birthday, maybe I'll get you a little something. I did not get toys in my childhood outside of my birthday or Hanukkah. It just did not happen. And so it made me hungry. I started selling lemonade when it snowed. Instead of making a snowman. I was like, fuck it, grab a shovel, get three bucks, get five bucks. And so it was obviously how my life has turned out. I was entrepreneur from the get. I, it was written, but I put in the reps as a kid because of my circumstance. My son is an entrepreneur. I can see it in him, but he's not. He, he's sitting courtside at a Knicks playoff game. My first Knicks game was the last row in the arena.
- [04:44]
A
Yes.
- [04:45]
B
You know, going crazy for Bernard King. Last row. So, you know, people that are listening, of course it's nature, nurture, of course we all got our DNA. And then we got who are our parents? What was the circumstance? What was the neighborhood? When I think about my success, I think about first, my mom. She built me on some real shit, you know what I mean? Like, she really built me like that. Next, the next Place. And then my. Of course my father too, but he came later. I'll get to that in a minute. But the next place I go to, why I got to. Where I got to is Edison fucking New Jersey. I believe the terroir. I grew up in the wine business. There's. There's a term called terroir. It means like where the wine comes from. But it's not just location. It's like bigger than that. It's like religion. It's like the fucking bees that buzz around there. You see what I'm saying? Like the fact that there was a factory and the fucking smoke. Like the whole essence of the place, not just the phys. Physical location. I credit the terroir of the eighties in New Jersey as making me. Because. How old are you? 45. Perfect. I'm 49, about to be 45. Respect. 44. Hold it, hold it. You know, we grew up in those 80s, early 90s. Like, you know, the reason so many kids talk so much shit these days is cause people don't fight like they used to.
- [06:16]
A
I told my son that all the time. He talk a lot of shit. I said, well, you gotta learn to fight before I start over talking shit.
- [06:21]
B
It's real. These kids are keyboard warriors on Twitter. Cause there's no ramifications. I used to walk the hallway. You look twice before you said some shit about someone. Cause if you said some shit about someone and they saw it, it was flagpole in fourth grade in my school, we were like fucking UFC and Don King. There was pay per view every second day after school, flagpole.
- [06:44]
A
Listen, when you said it was named Martin Luther King, you already knew. I knew.
- [06:48]
B
Yeah.
- [06:49]
A
Only Martin Luther King is in the hood. Ain't no motherfucker Martin Luther King's in Beverly Hills. And none of that. When you said Martin Luther King school, I was like, yeah.
- [06:56]
B
And I got real. And I'll tell you where I got real lucky. My Martin Luther King. Yes. Martin Luther King schools are where they're at, but we had some real diversity. I found my second grade picture, I didn't even remember. You know, you got that lower class white kid, but we had Asian kids, we had Indian kids, we had black kids. Later, when I got older, I think again, it's in me because I love people, to get along with people. But in hindsight, I got lucky. Like when I went over my friend Brian Chen's house, I got exposed to that Asian culture. When I went over to my friend Rashid's house, his mom was half. He was half black. Half Indian. When I look back, I'm like, oh, shit. Shit. I got real, real lucky. And then my parents really tipped it off. And in high school, I moved to rural. Rural. Rural New Jersey. Like, straight hunting. Like, I. First grade, first day of eighth grade, I moved in eighth grade right before high school. It was like the ninth day of school. I walked in, there was not a single boy in school. I was like, yo, what's up with this? Hickville boys don't have to come on Fridays. My homeroom teacher said, what are you doing here? I'm like, I'm confused. Where are the guys? Cause the girls were there. He's like, bro, it's the first day of hunting season.
- [08:10]
A
Oh, shit.
- [08:11]
B
I was like, what? Cause Edison didn't have no rifles and deer and shit. So I just got very fortunate in how I grew up. How do I think about the Soviet Union? How do I think about my childhood? Adversity is the foundation of success.
- [08:28]
A
Wow.
- [08:28]
B
That's how I think about it.
- [08:29]
A
None of that. Adversity is the foundation of success. And you talk about the hustle, and.
- [08:33]
B
You say, you shovel snow, lemonade, trading cards, blow pops, all the shit we all know, Bracelet, anything that could. Because you know, it's. You can't be hungry when you're fed.
- [08:48]
A
Yeah. Can't be hungry when you're fed like that, right? Can't be hungry when you're fed, but.
- [08:54]
B
Fuck, when you're not fucking.
- [08:56]
A
Can't be fucking hungry when you're fed.
- [08:58]
B
That's real shit.
- [08:59]
A
Fuck is that? Herb always whining and complaining. You can't be hungry when you fucking.
- [09:03]
B
It's true, by the way. I don't even judge kids. Like, I don't judge it. It's their reality. In fact, I admire the fuck out of rich kids that go hard. I actually think they got a different gear altogether. You know, we, those kids, for kids like you and I, who built our shit, we got judgment for those kids born on third base, all that shit. But in real talk, as I've now, as I'm getting older, I'm like, damn, man. I actually, in a weird way, respect those kids that go hard. Cause they. It's almost like they're playing a game they can't win. Regardless, you imagine. Listen, you and I have lived our lives. I'm sure of it. That both of us will confirm to all these kids watching right now, we're grateful that we were in our spot because we were too competitive and hungry. That if we were our kids and people could take Away from us on some bullshit. Just semantics that would hurt. I worked too hard for shit to be taken away from me. And now that I've lived a little bit, I've watched kids that had a lot that really worked like that, that really fought off, that really tried. I mean, I see it in my own children. They're the only two that don't really fuck with Gary Vee like that. They're trying to be on their own two feet. I respect it. I respect it. I've seen kids change their last names. I've seen kids like. And when I was growing up, I had so little, I was like, man, why are you doing that? You're so lucky. In reality, if you're a winner, the last thing you want to do is be put in a position where your work is undermined because of where you started.
- [10:37]
A
You just gave me. You just made a great point because you said, you know, your two kids up there, everybody fuck you with Gary Vee besides your two kids. And the same thing with me. I got three boys and it's like I feel like I'm the coolest dad in the world.
- [10:50]
B
Look at you.
- [10:51]
A
If I can't give you advice, who can you go to? Of course I've seen everything but to win. But it seems like my kids kind of fight that. But the point that you made is now it makes sense to me is like they want to create their own land, they want to create their own path, they want to do their own thing. So I'm sitting here being selfish, thinking like, fuck you, Aegon. Who better to listen to than me? But in their mind, it's like, you just want to do it our way.
- [11:13]
B
My big thing is when I see other people I admire that are speaking similar songs, because your boys will listen to me quicker, even if we're saying the same shit with slightly different words.
- [11:25]
A
Crazy.
- [11:26]
B
Yeah, it's fucking the flight of man, you know, Just like it is what it is. And then they really come around as they get older. You know, you and I have the luxury of being middle aged at this point. We appreciate things about our parents, our uncles, our grandparents that we couldn't comprehend when we were 13, 15. Cause we didn't fucking know the score. Back to sports analogy. These four teams right now, right? Like they've watched the finals, they've had success at other levels, a lot of these kids, right? But like until you're in Game 6 of the NBA Finals, places you've been where, 13 seconds left, like you don't know until you know Right. You like that? That adage of, like, I really don't think someone really knows themselves until adversity hits. Someone once said to me on a business trip when I was a kid, it was real deep fucking. It's crazy. How old was I? 20. This happened 25 years ago. It's. It pierced my soul. I was 25. I had just started running my family business three years earlier and completely blew it up. Changed my family's life. Was building it for my family, too. Doing it right. Like I was one of those rare breeds where I was putting my dad on more than he was putting me on. I was feeling myself. I was feeling like the man because I was really built. Like I'm talking about, of the family, because I'm building the business that we're eating on and I'm working the hundred hours a week. But I wasn't flexing or anything. I was just listening to a different story. But this is. I'm giving you my mindset. When this was said, it struck me to the core. This man who was like 48 at the time in business, said some nonchalant. Everyone just talking over dinner, over wine. He said, a man does not become a man until his dad dies. And I never forgot it. And I'm very fortunate, very grateful that I'm not in that position yet. Pops is. Just spoke to him 15 minutes ago. Complain about some dumb shit like he always likes to about. He's always, my dad is a fucking gangster. But it really struck me, and I think for a lot of people listening, my biggest observation to the audience that listens to this podcast is the reason I pump all the content I put out out there is I think we're not grateful enough. And I think we're soft. And I mean it. I think we complain about dumb shit. For example, I just was working on something on the flight down here from New York. I'm on the board of something called Charity Water. We build wells for fresh water in Africa and parts of Asia. As we all are chilling right now, all of you behind the scenes, and you and I Right now, 800 million people on Earth. 10%. There's 8 billion people on Earth. 800 million people on Earth do not have access to clean water. That means they can't get to clean water within six hours. And the way they get there, by the way, in most of those tribes, is the woman puts a fucking bucket on her head. That would make most athletes in the NBA struggle to carry on their head for an hour. And she walks seven or eight Hours with it, fills it with water and then brings it back. And we're out here complaining that our, like, Instagram following isn't going up. Or like, why don't I have a Lambo? Or like, why can't I get into 11? Like, people crying about dumb ass shit. So I think that for the men and for the ladies, but for the men here, like, stop acting tough until A, you got punched in the mouth and figured out who the fuck you were, and B, when all the responsibility of your family is on your chest, you know, And I think we need to. We need to get our perspectives right. That's what drives me. That's why I am not silent and just building my businesses. That's why daily I am putting out videos and putting out stuff because I want to contribute in a positive way to the conversation. And I think most of the shit that's out there is nonsense.
- [15:47]
A
I wanna rewind. Cause you talked about your business and building your dance business and where we started to where it was. But you visualize YouTube as an outlet to build a business. And you were ahead of the game with that. Talk about that and also piggybacking on what you said because you might just say a man doesn't become a man until you lose your father. Which is crazy because I thought I was a man until I actually lost my father. When I lost my father, it was at that point I realized my life. I knew everything to do. I wasn't confused, I wasn't lost, I wasn't concerned. I literally knew exactly where my job was. I knew what I had to do, I understood my responsibilities. I. I was no lack with my father.
- [16:36]
B
How old are you?
- [16:37]
A
I'm 44 now. My father passed when I was 40.
- [16:41]
B
Sorry, it's tough early.
- [16:42]
A
I lost my stepmother, I lost her father. So you, Ross, is now the cancer. But for me, crazy thing is, everything was different until I lost my father. When I lost my father, I think everything caught up with me at once and I had to reach out and I had to do my therapy thing just good for you to get that balance and find myself.
- [16:57]
B
How do you.
- [16:58]
A
I was part of being a man 100% growing up. And then all of a sudden, like I said, I'm looking around and I was not confused about what I need you to do best, saying so he prepared me for that and I was the man that he prepared me to eat. So he absolutely swat on from that. But just talk about how you visualize me too, being that outlet to build.
- [17:14]
B
And grow in 2003, taking a step back. My dad had a local liquor store. He lived his American dream, had nothing, saved every dollar. I already told you, my family didn't buy anything so we could save, save, save. And then eventually my dad bought a small liquor store in Springfield, New Jersey. Immigrant life, you know, I was 14, I started working there, stocking shelves, the you see at the gas stations. Like immigrant. Built a nice business for himself, got to live, support our family with that. I came in and I knew, you know, I knew, like I like talking to athletes because I love sports so much, but I wasn't gifted physically that way, but mentally I was gifted that way and I knew. And when I say I knew, I knew at 14, 15, and this is before you're in the same general age group as me. You know this business. Men weren't cool like that. That wasn't a cultural thing, rappers, athletes, but being a businessman, that'd be like fine. But it wasn't like cool like it is now. But I knew that I was going to be world class in business at that age. I knew it. And I grew up real immigrant. What I mean by that is immigrant kids really understand this more than hood kids. Immigrant kids understand you do it for your family. It's not even about you. So I grew up where I was like, my mom's the best of all time. She's just done so right by me. My father's worked his face off. I haven't seen him like that, bro. My father and I slept in the same house every night for the first 14 years of my life. I got six to 10 memories of him from zero to 14. He woke up and left for work before I woke up. And he came home from work after I went to sleep seven days a week. Seven. So I had this crazy guilt and gratitude that I wanted to do right by then. So I decided, like, decided. I remember calling my mom, crying, crying. When I was 18, I was a grown boy being like, mom, I know that I'm destined for big shit, but first I'm gonna really build this business for dad. Like I was like, I'm just gonna give up my twenties and build this business because I think I can and I want to give back to my family. So that's what I did in 1996, 1997, I launched one of the first E Commerce wine businesses in America, winelibrary.com the Internet was crazy. That'd be like me telling you all, let's build AI robots and have them sell shit on Mars right now. That's how crazy the Internet was in 96,7. Cause it hadn't existed yet. And so like, people were just like, what is that even. I did that from 1998 to 2003. I ran the business. In those five years, the business went from 3 million a year to 45 million a year. Completely changed my parents life. I bought my car at 16. I bought it at a garage sale with my money for $580. That is the first car I had. My brother's 11 years younger than me. He got a brand new lexus on his 17th birthday. That's how much our life changed in that decade. In 2003, I'm cooking and I'm like, really building. And I go to my computer guy, as I called him, he was a developer. I go, yo, I want to make videos and put them on the Internet. How do I do that? He's like, we have to host them this and that. So he did the work. He came into my office like a day later. He's like, here's how much it would cost. I don't want to make this up because I want to keep it real, but I'll give you what it felt like. He said some shit like, if an hour is watched on our website, it's Gonna cost us $10,000 to host those videos. It was something I could not afford no matter what. So that was it. It just got put on the side. I wanna give him his flowers. His name's Eric Kastner with a K. He was my lead developer. Two years later, I'm working on some shit. We sat closer than you and I are sitting. That's how small the office. Close. No bullshit. Closer than you and I are sitting right now. We sat. He taps me. He goes, check out this site. It was YouTube. I go on it. I'm like, what is this? He goes, you remember the video thing? I was like, yeah. He goes, on this site, we can upload it and we can host it on the website. It'll cost free. They're taking on the costs. I'm like, bet. The next day I call my brother. I'm like, this thing's gonna be crazy. He's a freshman in college. I'm like, you need to start a video show about the Jets. So he started. This is a fun fact, Staphon. You might not even know this. My brother AJ was actually the first vlogger. He did like 7 or 8 episodes of Jets TV. He did some videos, but it's not what he. Yeah, respect. But he didn't want to be about that world. He was more into like the business side. So he was done pretty quick. And I kept looking at YouTube. It was getting bigger, but it was all pirated shit. In its first year, it was like south park clips, Family Guy clips. Nobody was making original videos. Then there was this guy named Ze Frank. Z e Space Frank. He was making videos. There was another show called Rocket Boom. I was like, there's something. This is gonna be something. So I. On February 21, 2006, less than nine months after. Yeah, less than nine months after YouTube came out, I made my first video of wine. Library TV changed the course of my career. Wow. I knew. I wrote a book a couple years later called Crush It. My first book. If you were to read it today, it's crazy. I wrote that book in 2008. It came out in 2009. That book's 16 years old. Basically, I completely predicted content creators, influencers making money on the Internet. And at the time it came out, it did extremely well. But critics panned it for being not realistic. One news outlet said, this guy's such a snake oil salesman, he's trying to tell you that people are gonna make 100,000 a year on YouTube. LOL. LOL. It's crazy. It's crazy. And so, yeah, YouTube video. I always knew that video was gonna win. Video always wins. And I knew would just be a matter of time before it was real on the Internet back in the early 2000s and YouTube came.
- [23:48]
A
So as you go from Wyoming media to venture capital, different things like that. Like what's the bridge? What was the bridge?
- [23:56]
B
The bridge was that actual moment nine months later or within that year. YouTube sells for $2 billion. Two billion in 2007 after you purchased your first video. Yeah, about a year later. I don't want to get the timing wrong somewhere quick. I think it was the next year. YouTube sells to Google for 2.1 billion to again. I want the kids that are listening right now to understand. 2.1 billion in 07, I would argue would be like a hundred billion, maybe even $500 billion deal today. Numbers were different. We didn't print all that money during COVID The world was different. Everyone's shook. I read an article in the Wall Street Journal and in there, it's the first time I'd ever seen the term. It's. It was writing the article of YouTube this incredible exit. And then it said, angel investor Ron Conway is set to make XYZ amount of money on his 100,000 or I don't remember the number $50,000 angel investment. I was like, what the fuck's an angel investment? So I went to Google, I typed in angel investment. I read it and I remember because it was one of those moments that you'll always remember in your life. I remember I had the big ass computer screen and I'm reading it and you know how you can like see your reflection in your screen with the right lighting? I remember reading it and then I looked in the screen and looked at myself and I said, motherfucker, you're gonna be an angel investor. And I promised myself. Cause at that point when YouTube sold like that, I was like, fuck man, I got some sort of gift and I'm not making paper on it. I was right about email, I was right about the web, I was right about Google, AdWords. And now I'm right about YouTube. I'm good at seeing shit. I said, I'm going to promise myself the next time I feel that shit, I'm going to angel invest. Because I had a little bit of savings. About six months later I had that feeling. I saw a new startup and I was like, this is it. And I wrote my first angel check and that was Twitter.
- [25:51]
A
So just for the people that are an angel investors is when you're investing.
- [25:56]
B
Early, you're the angels. You're basically the first monies in before there's institutional venture capital money. You're the fifty and hundred thousand dollars smaller checks just to get someone off the ground. Later they'll go for a series A venture capital round. So it's high. I mean, listen, Facebook, Twitter, I really, really won. There was others, you know, Uber. I really lost and really won. So Snapchat. There was a lot of wins, but 98% were losses. Like, don't get excited about angel investing if you don't have paper like that. Like 98% are losses.
- [26:35]
A
I think you understand that.
- [26:37]
B
That's. Why do you think I'm fucking taking this moment to fucking break it down? You know? You know what I mean? Like now, now the reason it works is when you hit, you hit. You know, when you're making 3,000 times your investment back, you can lose a lot of so but it is, I wouldn't call it gambling. I would call it extremely high risk investing. My last point on this and we'll bounce. I still do angel investing, but now I only invest if I like both the jockey and the horse. Oh, I used to do it if I liked the horse. The horse. I call the idea if I like the idea back in 0, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, probably into 13, I would invest. The mistake I was making was I didn't realize. I would look at something and be like, oh, shit, I know what to do with this. I'll build it big. But when you're putting money and you're not in control, now I gotta like the Jockey too. I need to like her or him. I'm like, does she have the stomach for it? Now I'm analyzing the person because I got caught on. All those Harvard kids, all those Ivy League kids came with good ideas, but they got fed. They got to Harvard because grandpa made a donation. They got to Harvard because they're a great fucking student. But being a great student doesn't mean you're a great entrepreneur. So I had to learn those lessons in my 30s and 40s.
- [27:57]
A
Great point, great point. I asked about the Uber because it was. Yeah, because I do my research, so obviously I do my research. When you came on, it's a conflicting story. You lost, you won.
- [28:07]
B
It's not conflicting. I lost and won. In my first book, I just mentioned Crush It. I. It's your first book. You're acknowledging the most people in your life in the first page. The only people I acknowledge is my family and then one random ass dude, Travis Kalkinick, who was the co founder and CEO of Uber. Travis was in between companies when I wrote Crush it and I sent him an early copy and he really helped me with it because he was just chilling. He invest. He actually. Garrett Camp, the founder of a company called StumbleUpon is actually the gentleman that came up with the idea of Uber. It was originally called Uber Cab. I was actually in the room in Paris when he literally pitched the idea for the first time. Garrett was involved. They were looking for a CEO. It was a side project. This is real talk. Yep. Two entrepreneurs that already made it had an idea. They went out and found a third guy, Ryan Graves, a hustler kid, to run it because it was a side project, because they were doing other shit. It started off real strong in San Francisco. Travis came in and decided to be the CEO because he saw it was going to be big. He asked me to invest. You know why I love this sale so much?
- [29:25]
A
Why?
- [29:26]
B
Because it confirms one of my favorite sayings in life. Scared money don't make money.
- [29:33]
A
Ooh, shit. They say that everywhere. They say that in the business offices with the CEOs and in the hood at the dice game, bro.
- [29:41]
B
They say that everywhere, bro. This moment is my watershed Statue of Liberty in A career that spans 30, 40 years, if you count my kid hustle. The amount of times I played Scare money was almost zero because I came from nothing, so I was never scared to go back. But I bought my first big boy apartment in New York, and I had no fucking liquid. I just bought it. I was going to have my second child, and I had no paper. I had a little bit, you know, that immigrant little bit, you know, like, gotta have a hundred thousand in cash somewhere. But, you know, like, I was not. I was not with paper. So when Travis came and said, I want you to invest in Uber, I was like, fuck. I was like, I'm gonna have to pass to his credit, which is why I love him so much. He came back because we were boys. He came back three, four, five weeks later. He's like, bro, I was in San Francisco for a talk. I was in that grassy knoll. Every time I pass it by, I'm like, fuck, that spot. He's like, please be in. I was like, I just can't. I said no twice. If I had written the normal $50,000 check that I was writing back then, 2550, you're talking about 3, 4, 5, 600 million now. So I pass. About a year and a half later, or a year later, they were in their next series A. Like, instead of. I would have gotten in at like a four or eight. I don't remember the number. Under $10 million valuation. About a year and a half later, I did invest. It might have been at 100 million or 80 million or 120 million. And I did. Well, I mean, I made millions and millions of dollars when it went IPO on $100,000 investment. But, you know, yeah, I mean, like, I'm grateful that I have a career that I can sit and talk about moments where I passed on a twice that would have resulted in, you know, a half a billion dollars in paper. And to me, like, on the other side, looking at all your reactions, I've been telling the story for a decade. I know how people react. I react too. But, you know, it's like, you know this as an athlete. When you're in the arena, it's just, next play.
- [32:05]
A
Yes.
- [32:06]
B
It's just like, you know, you can hear the crowd booing. You know, you can hear the announcer's takes. You can see the hot takes on, you know, on the shows and the radio. But, like, what am I gonna do, cry? I'm still working like this, what I never had. And in a weird way, and I think people that get it will really get it on the other side of this podcast. I'm happy it didn't happen. Not because I would have been any less hungry. It would have changed the complete foundation of my light. And I think in the butterfly effect, I'm like, not to make me feel better, but because of how I lived, I'm like, okay, that would have happened, but then this would have happened. This. In a world where I sit here today, healthy and happy, I'm like, who knows? I might have had to go to Tokyo for a business meeting cause of that. And maybe I wasn't paying attention crossing the street and got hit by a car. Like, I think for people to cry about spilled milk if they're in a decent spot is crazy, because every little subtle decision changes the outcome of your life. And so, yeah, it's a super L. I love it because it's on a thesis I believe in, you know? And so I like losing on some truth, you know? And that's that. It's a fucking L. No, I'm with you.
- [33:20]
A
I can't miss what I never had.
- [33:22]
B
That part. That part.
- [33:23]
A
If I never had it, it wasn't mine.
- [33:24]
B
That part. That part.
- [33:26]
A
But you said you go with your gut. Yes, in these things, but you have Facebook, you have Snapchat, you have Coinbase. You have all these different things.
- [33:35]
B
My gut's good.
- [33:36]
A
As I was just gonna say I had. Your guts are amazing. But how are you identifying these things?
- [33:40]
B
Pattern recognition.
- [33:41]
A
The ball is all this coming to you. And I like to stay up to. Like, I'll tell you when everybody's sleeping. That's when I My crazy.
- [33:48]
B
Me too.
- [33:48]
A
That's when I called my business manager, Sylvester, and wake him the up, and.
- [33:51]
B
I'm like, I'll tell you how I do it. Let me bring up something that it was funny you just brought up Sylvester. Cause when you just said, I call him at 3am Makes me think about how I talk to Mike Boyd, who's my music plug. What I do for a living in real life is I watch culture. Not just the culture, black culture, which is obviously the foundation of pop culture, but every culture. White boy culture, Korean girl culture, K, pop culture, Europe culture, Ibiza culture. All cultures. Yeah. So what I try to do, where I think all the secrets are, is by knowing everything. I mean, everything. So I had something go viral recently, you know, Dochi.
- [34:39]
A
Yes.
- [34:40]
B
So I discovered Doch super early. In fact, during COVID I had Dochi on Zoom with all thousand of my employees at the time. And in that video, I Said to her, I think you're gonna become a superstar. And for some reason my brain said, and in fact, in 44 or 42, some weird number. 44, 42 months, the whole world's gonna know my guy. Literally 42 or 44, whatever number I said. Months later, she did the Grammy performance that blew her up. Dochi and Facebook are the same to me. When I see something that makes sense to me, that the world is gonna like it. The Cronut, that fucking little weird stuffed animal that all the girls are fucking rocking right now, Baggy pants. Instead of type like fashion, this brand, Siegelman Stables, Kith from afar, palace from afar. A music act, a new restaurant fucking, a fashion trend or a startup, it's all the same shit to me. It's just almost like the Matrix. It's like ones and zeros. And my whole body just knows that America is gonna fuck with this. And then that's when I start digging. So I'm out there just fucking reading, watching, listening, you know? And I got people. Mike Boyd's like, yo, this new Rigaton artist. I really think he's gonna be about that. I'll go and listen to it. And if I get the goosebumps, then I know we need to like fucking go. Like, I look at my DMs, I fucking hit up Bad Bunny in 2016. I'm like, you got it. Like, I see it. And of course I'm wrong sometimes, but not often because I. And definitely not the shit I say public. Cause who wants to be wrong? So I'm like, you, that midnight, 1, 2, 3 in the morning. I don't know, once or twice a week, I'll just get into my zone and I'll be like, what are all the fucking Euro drug head kids into right now? And I'll just go fucking watch. Or I'll be like, what are all the fucking Hispanic skateboarder kids in San Antonio right now that are like half into Wemby but half into fucking skateboard culture? Like, what are they fucking with? Or like, what are the Hamptons girls like? What. What drinks are like, is it going to be a spritz this year? Or is it going to be. I'm just curious as fuck, but with, with intent. I'm not curious for the sake of being curious. I'm curious because I'm trying to make paper. I'm trying to build an empire. And so I'm curious because I know in that curiosity I will unlock. And then you just get into patterns. And you get into patterns. Why Did I know Facebook was going to work? Because I watched Friendster happen six years earlier. I already knew social networks were coming. We just lived through MySpace. Tila Tequila was the most famous girl in the world for a few seconds. So I just knew it was coming. And then you look at Zucks, I was like, this guy's fucking different.
- [37:44]
A
You, you too. And the positive debt, I mean, obviously, you know, you have advice from, for obviously guys like myself or any guy that looks to bridge that gap, obviously. What would you say?
- [38:03]
B
Mix up your circles, get more like what I like about the modern athlete and you, your generation is the first one. And now the kids, you know this, you see the 18 year olds, they're all so much more savvy than you guys were coming up and they have you all to thank. Your crew, your crew, truly your draft class, the three before you, the three after. There was a maturity in your generation of not doing the same dumb shit that all the athletes before you came. The money was bigger, but the discipline was better. It was just different. I watched it. I lived watching it. The thing that I recommend to people, whether they are athletes or business people or just watching, y' all need to hang out with more different people. You know what I mean? Like, how do you learn? You spend time with you when I like, if I want to learn more about contemporary art, like, you need to hang out with Rasheed Johnson. That's like, what do you think? Like, like, and obviously I have access, but like, whatever it is, like, go hang out with people that know. Go hang out with people that know. Like the, like, when I want to know what's going on with stuff, I spend time with people that know. And I try to stay curious. And you try to mix up your circle. Here's another one. I'm very focused on giving people flowers. Like one of the things that we do not do well out of some old school pride shit. You saying someone's doing good shit doesn't make you lesser than.
- [39:28]
A
Yes.
- [39:29]
B
Doesn't mean you're a fucking glazer. Means you're a fucking nice human being. Giving flowers to somebody. What the fuck's the matter with you people? So one of you know, especially for someone like you, somebody out there with status, all the athletes that watch this, you DM someone you admire and be like, yo, I fuck with your shit. Doesn't make you lesser than what it normally leads to, especially if you're an athlete. Athletes need to know this. I'm 49 years old. I still feel 13 when I watch the Knick this Knicks series. Like, if fucking Josh Hart walked in here right now, I'd faint. Even though I know Josh like that. I'm in that place right now. Every athlete can reach out to any of the biggest business people in the world. Scientists, cooks, actors, and just be like, you know, you watch a fucking Netflix movie and you like that. And you want to learn more about Hollywood and acting, DM the actor and be like, yo, your performance was fucking fresh. Like, you know, like, people don't get it. Like, DM is. Are not just there to slide in and have some fucking, you know, late call, booty action. It's there to business, develop. It's there to learn. Like, we have the access we have to people. Today is insanity. Like, nothing makes me happier than to randomly DM somebody and be like, bro, that was a good game. Like, good. Keep moving. People are happy to get compliments. It's a nice gesture. So what do I think? Expanding circles.
- [40:52]
A
I mean, my og, the reputation that I have as an OG has partly been built off the end, because the gal, they don't know me personally, but they can DM me. I've had so many young guys at AEA shoot me a DM and just ask me questions on how to deal with certain things. Of course, use life, basketball, business, so many different things.
- [41:10]
B
Makes so much sense that that has been huge.