Howard Lutnik's Emotional Journey | #1 of 2024 Top Podcasts

Summary

The GaryVee Audio Experience: Howard Lutnick's Emotional Journey | Episode Summary

Podcast Information:

• Title: The GaryVee Audio Experience
• Host/Author: Gary Vaynerchuk
• Episode: Howard Lutnick's Emotional Journey | #1 of 2024 Top Podcasts
• Release Date: January 1, 2025

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Introduction

In the premiere episode of "Howard Lutnick's Emotional Journey," hosted by Gary Vaynerchuk, listeners are taken on an inspiring and heart-wrenching narrative of Howard Lutnick, CEO of Cantor Fitzgerald. Presented by Mike from Team Gary Vee, the episode delves deep into Howard's transformation from facing profound personal tragedies to becoming a prominent figure on Wall Street. This summary captures the essence of their conversation, highlighting key moments, lessons, and Howard's unwavering resilience.

Early Life and Personal Tragedies

[00:39] Howard Lutnick opens up about his devastating childhood, losing both parents within a short span:

"My parents died when I was young, mom when I was 16, dad at 18. So that sort of starts the process."
[00:39]

He recounts the harrowing details of his father's untimely death due to a medical error and his mother's battle with cancer, describing the overwhelming challenges he faced as he and his siblings navigated life without their parents' support.

[01:57] Howard shares how his college stepped in to support him after he had to drop out to take care of his brother:

"My college takes care of me."
[01:57]

Career Beginnings on Wall Street

Howard details his initial foray into the business world, starting with a summer job that eventually led him to Cantor Fitzgerald. His early entrepreneurial spirit is evident as he discusses hustling to make money during his youth:

"I was always figuring out how to make money."
[09:15]

He explains his strategies for networking and building relationships, emphasizing the importance of energy and perseverance in climbing the corporate ladder.

Rise to Leadership

Through a series of bold moves and strategic investments, Howard narrates his ascent within Cantor Fitzgerald. A pivotal moment comes when he becomes the president of the company at just 29 years old:

"At the age of 29, I become the president of the company."
[47:19]

He highlights the significance of building a team based on mutual respect and shared values:

"We only work with people that we like. That's the rule of common ground."
[50:42]

Overcoming Adversity and Lessons Learned

[05:31] Howard shares profound life lessons learned from his mother, emphasizing the joy of living and resilience in the face of adversity:

"Today is the joy of life. Right here, right now. This is it."
[05:31]

He discusses his battle with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, reinforcing his commitment to maintaining happiness and living fully despite life's challenges.

Gary interjects with reflections on modern parenting and the importance of independence, drawing parallels to Howard's upbringing and its influence on his worldview.

Defining Success and Cleverness

Howard challenges conventional notions of intelligence and success, advocating for cleverness and people skills over traditional academic prowess:

"You just need to be really clever."
[32:29]

Gary echoes this sentiment, underscoring the paramount importance of interpersonal skills in achieving greatness:

"People skills, man. If you could tell me can I be great at memorizing shit for a test to get an A or have outrageous people skills. It's a fucking thousand to zero in the favor of people skills."
[33:29]

September 11th: A Defining Moment

The conversation takes a poignant turn as Howard recounts his experience during the September 11th attacks. On his son's first day of kindergarten, Howard was at the Cantor Fitzgerald office when the tragedy struck:

"The world is black and silent. So I stand up... I am alive."
[51:53]

He vividly describes the chaos, loss, and his desperate attempts to save his colleagues, culminating in the heartbreaking realization of the immense personal and professional losses incurred that day.

Key Takeaways and Reflections

Throughout the episode, Howard Lutnick's journey exemplifies resilience, strategic thinking, and the power of building meaningful relationships. Key insights include:

• Resilience in Adversity: Overcoming personal loss to build a successful career.
• Networking and Relationships: Leveraging connections and maintaining genuine relationships as a cornerstone of success.
• Redefining Intelligence: Valuing cleverness and people skills over traditional academic measures.
• Living with Purpose: Embracing each day with joy and determination, regardless of circumstances.

Conclusion

Howard Lutnick's Emotional Journey is a testament to the human spirit's capacity to triumph over adversity. From the depths of personal tragedy to the heights of Wall Street leadership, Howard's story is both inspiring and instructive. This episode not only sheds light on his remarkable career but also imparts timeless lessons on resilience, strategic networking, and the true essence of success.

"Living every day because this is the joy. You don't die, you lose. The joy of living."
[05:31]

Listeners are left with a profound appreciation for Howard's journey and eagerly await Part Two, which promises to continue exploring his impactful legacy.

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Note: This summary is based on the transcript provided and captures the key discussions and notable quotes with corresponding timestamps.

Transcript

[Mike]

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Gary Vee Audio Experience. I'm Mike from Team Gary Vee, and today I'm especially excited to share with you an episode of the podcast. In this one, Gary sits down with Howard Lutnick, CEO of Kanter Fitzgerald. Howard's journey from personal tragedy to becoming one of Wall Street's most prominent figures is nothing short of inspiring. In this episode, we'll explore the lessons he learned from building a multi billion dollar firm to overcoming adversity and leading through some of the darkest moments in our nation's history. I hope you all enjoy this episode. Make sure you come back tomorrow to listen to the second part of this incredible conversation. Enjoy.

[Howard Lutnick]

My parents died when I was young, mom when I was 16, dad at 18. So that sort of starts the process. You lose one parent, it's one thing. You lose the second parent, it's a whole nother thing. Family pulled out. You think, okay, all the uncles and aunts are going to come jump into your rescue? No, no, no. They were afraid we'd be sticky. You know, they'd invite us over and we'd never leave. So at my dad's funeral, my dad gets killed. September. So my mom dies of. Of cancer. Long Island. Classic Long island breast cancer. Dad has cancer, goes in for his first chemotherapy shot. We had no money, so we went to the local hospital and nurse makes a terrible mistake, gives him someone else's dose and kills him on the table.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Jesus.

[Howard Lutnick]

September 12th, 1979. Okay. So at my dad's funeral, September 15th, my dad's brother says, hey, you want to come over for Thanksgiving? I'm like, isn't that, like, November? Why aren't you worried about how I'm going to eat, say, tomorrow night? He was like, just let me know if you want to come over. Never spoke to the guy again. Guy didn't care. My sister's 20. I'm 18. My brother's 15. Three of us. That's it. On her own. Not really any money. Sell the house. Just try to figure it out. And that's. And that's how we start the world. So my college takes care of me.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Howard Lutnick]

Steps up in a crazy way and says, we want you to come back because I was dropping out, take care of my brother. Dropping out. Gonna run, like, my dad's travel business. He had a travel agency, like, run his travel business. Like I have any clue at the end of 18, like, I don't even know what a check looked like.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Right.

[Howard Lutnick]

My favorite thing was the only checks I'd ever seen were my mother's checks. They had like a sunset on them.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yep.

[Howard Lutnick]

So I thought, yeah, you get a sunset check.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Howard Lutnick]

And then one day I was sitting with one of my friends and he had like a regular blue checkbook. And I was like, I got this little sunset thing. I got boats. And so Haverford small school in Pennsylvania calls me and says, listen, come back. We want you to come back. We got you and we got you. And they and I went back. So I ended up having the life I was going to lead. I put my brother in a boarding school.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. I was going to ask you where did.

[Howard Lutnick]

And he lived with me on the weekends. So he was with me on the weekends. And he's 15, turning 16, trying to pick up chicks.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You want to. Yeah. You want to talk about learning life fast? Being 15 on a college campus every weekend.

[Howard Lutnick]

So he's sleeping in my dorm room.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Howard Lutnick]

And trying to pick up chicks on the weekend.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Just to bounce around a little bit. You know, in hindsight, that's a lot to go through. You know, it's really interesting. I've always, you know, since we've gotten to know each other more recent times, like there's a kind of instant connection you have with people. I am very fortunate that that did not happen to me. But I would argue my parents losing parents at a very, very young age was foundational in how I see life. I grew up my entire childhood fearing my parents death. And I mean, not like normal people who, like, it crosses your mind. I mean, like it was the major backdrop conversation I had with myself my whole life. My mom lost her mom at 6 in the Soviet. My parents grew up in the Soviet Union. So like, let's start that like, you know. And then my dad lost his dad at 16. And it was just a huge currency in my whole life. My mom lost her dad when she was 21 too. So she like very quickly was down to zero. And my grandma, my mom, my dad's mom was around a part of my life. But it's interesting, even though I wasn't the affected of it directly, it was a huge factor in how I see life. Of the three of you, how did you all take that moment?

[Howard Lutnick]

Well, my mother, they gave her six months to live and she lived years, but she lived like a tornado. She was like, really? I got six months, let's go. And she'd go to India and just blow out and come back two weeks later, walk in the door and start yelling at me that I didn't do my homework. I'm like, hey, where you been? And it was like war zone. But every once in a while, like I'd be sitting in school and the vice principal would come over and go, howard, Howard, pull me out. It's classic. What is it? He goes, it's your mom. And so I go running outside and she's in the car and I'm like, what? You okay? You okay? Because she had terminal cancer, she's gonna die. She goes, yeah, let's go. And we go to the city, we go to art galleries, right? Then she'd take me to the opera, right? And then after the opera, we'd go get bombed at the local bar, right? And I mean blitzed. And I'm 15 years old and I'm blitzed out of my mind. And then we drive home to Long island, where we lived, what I called Rodeo. Roll down the windows, right? Woo hoo. Like try and. Just because she wasn't worried about dying, I guess she wasn't worried about me dying either, which is little.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And by the way, kids, just to give you context on this era, no seatbelts either.

[Howard Lutnick]

No, no, no.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Just so everybody understands this is real.

[Howard Lutnick]

Rodeo, baby, no seatbelts.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And let me give you something else that was happening on that highway as they drove from New York, like throwing the McDonald's out the window. That's how we disposed. It's crazy to think about some of the social norms of the 70s and early 80s. And anyway, nonetheless, so that was it.

[Howard Lutnick]

So I learned to live. Live every day. So let me give you a hint. Today is the joy of life. Right here, right now. This is it. You know, never be depressed. I. I had, I had non Hodgkin's lymphoma. I had cancer. And people would say, how are you? I'd say, I'm good. Because every day I'm alive, I'm going to make sure I'm happy. And I'm living my life because this is the joy. You don't. My view. I learned it from my mom. You don't die, you lose. The joy of living.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I believe in that shit, brother. My relationship with complaining is built, is built on this thesis. Listening to what people complain. Dad, don't be mad at me. I know you always say, like, you give mom all the flowers and you razz me, but this is true. There was one time that I got pushed so far with my dad being upset about dumb shit that I said to him, you know, Dad, I mean, and this is like just for context for everyone who's listening like after a million things my dad has said in his life that he's complaining about in business, normally, my dad is funny with business. He takes everything personal. I take nothing personal. So you can imagine our combos. But finally, there was one time and I said to him, I said, dad, you know, I really wish something bad happened to our family just so you'd have something actually worth complaining about. That's how visceral I am to complaining. Based on this thesis, everybody complains about dumb shit, and then something happens in their life that's worth complaining and they get really reset.

[Howard Lutnick]

Correct. So I learned. I learned how to live from my mother.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Howard Lutnick]

And then. So I was always focused on living because I learned it. I learned it when. When I was 16.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Howard Lutnick]

You know, and so formidable years.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

A lot happens in 14 to 18.

[Howard Lutnick]

So when my dad got killed, and the second one, you lose the second one, you're in hell. You're literally in hell. It smells like hell, tastes like hell. I didn't know what the hell to do. Yeah, I mean, I'm, you know, my sister's 20. I'm 18. I didn't know what to do. And it was a disaster. Yeah. Everything about my life that day was a disaster. The lawyers stole our money. It was everything. Like, you have kids with no one protecting them, and you just get shredded. Okay. You just got shred. I don't have any money to begin with. And whatever little money we had was shredded. Okay? So me, my sister, my brother, we just live.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Was your sister in college at that point?

[Howard Lutnick]

So my sister was in college. So basically, he goes to boarding school near me, lives with me for one year. She graduates and goes to grad school. And then she takes him and he goes. She goes to Syracuse grad school. She gets a JDM mba, and he lives with her and graduates from the public high school right by Syracuse. So he just goes to the public high school, and then he just wants to be me. My brother, he just decides he wants to be me, and so he joins. He goes to Wall street because I was working on Wall street at the time, and then eventually joins me. But that's the thing about my story is I was really focused. I really understood things. And there's lots of stories about how I made it, but I got all the way to the top of the world.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, let's. Before we go getting top of the business world and things of that nature, take me back prior to these incredibly challenging events, prior to that five. You know, when I think about my professional career, so Much was happening at 5, 7, 9, 11, 13. That and I now look back on and be like, oh, this shit makes sense. Of course I fucking. When it snowed and everybody wanted to make a snowman, I'm like trying to convince Robbie Turner or Eric Godfrey or Andy Greco or one fucking kid in my neighborhood of like, let's grab a fucking shovel and ring every fucking doorbell in Edison, New Jersey. Like, of course it was in me. You know, obviously you had these traumatic and life shaping events and obviously you had a mentor and your mom that you just described about living. But your mom was there obviously in those years as well. Were you that person at 6, 9, 10 and 12, before these adversities came? What was 7 or 10 year old, Howard?

[Howard Lutnick]

I was always figuring out how to make money. Yeah, always. So I'll give you an example. I would buy a pack of baseball cards.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Y.

[Howard Lutnick]

Okay. And then I would take all the old cards and I'd make new packs. And some had one new card and some had three new cards and some had five new cards. And I sold them, you know, so that when I sold out all these.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yep.

[Howard Lutnick]

Right. When I sold them all out, I made like 3x the pack. But you took risk.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Howard Lutnick]

You know, for two cents you might get five cards, which is way better. Or you might get one and get blown out. Right. And so. And I would sell these cards and I of course sold T shirts. Remember the famous ones with like the arrow? I'm with you, stupid.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes.

[Howard Lutnick]

Like those. I sold those. I basically, I did all these things. I just hustled to make money all the time. I used to have carnivals in my house.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Or bad at school.

[Howard Lutnick]

Oh, I was, I was a square. Okay. I was good at school. I played, I played tennis. So I was serious sports. And, and I was good. My. My sister had fun and lived a good life. And my, my brother just lived through like a world of shit with my, with my family, you know, and health and stuff like that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And were you good at school because you were serious about tennis and you wanted to be on the tennis team or school came natural to you or you wanted to make your somebody proud? Your mom or dad or something altogether different?

[Howard Lutnick]

I think it was. They had enough. They didn't need to deal with me. Okay. I didn't want them to have to deal with me.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Your sister was having enough fun that you saw them dealing with her and you're like it. I just don't want them to deal.

[Howard Lutnick]

Yeah. And they didn't have to deal with me. So I was just like, you know, I just was fine, okay? I was fine. And. And you learned.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

How much did the neighborhood raise you? Like, like, did you play outside a lot?

[Howard Lutnick]

Forget about that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I don't mean like the 50s and the 40s, but like, like, like, like, were you outside constantly?

[Howard Lutnick]

Yeah. When you were. When I. Where I lived until. Until we moved in the sixth grade, you would just be on the street. You'd be playing football on the street. You'd be. Everyone would pick the name of some, you know, Dallas Cowboy or someone, right? And they'd.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I hope Joe Namath got a little bit of love in that area.

[Howard Lutnick]

And you'd yell, car. Right off the street, car go by. Sorry. So that's, that's the way it always was. So, you know, and then we moved to, like, more suburban. Suburban, you know, where there was no one else on the street. So then you just rode your bike anywhere, and then what you would do is you just ride your bike.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yep.

[Howard Lutnick]

Right. And your parents didn't have any idea where you were? They never knew. And you just come back when it was dark.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

My mom literally had no clue where exactly I was from 1982 to 1989. She knew I was in the general vicinity, but she would literally open the door and yell. Yeah, like, like full fucking. Like out of a fucking, you know, throwback sitcom. Would literally open the door and yell about lunch. And then, like, the way it worked, it was like out of a fucking Wonder Years episode. She would yell, and if we were more in the left direction towards Eric Godfrey, then my sister's friend Denise's mom would hear it and literally open her door and then she would yell. If we were up top, closer to Robbie Turnick's house, Robbie's mom, Eleanor, would hear it and she would yell in case we were by Bobby Duffy's. Like, it was like fucking crazy. And I really, genuinely believe that, that we're trying to blame a lot of things for where the anxiety and all this is, but the over coddling of knowing everything about your kid, every second of everything. We are totally. We were growing up like, I don't know, fights and getting hit by a stick and like fucking reconciling shit without parents was. You were learning how to function.

[Howard Lutnick]

My wife has never had a minute when my kids were younger than 18 where she didn't know where they were.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Howard, I'll be honest with you, like.

[Howard Lutnick]

One minute, not even one minute.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'll be honest with you. I'm aware of, like, how modern parenting last 30 years has been. How about the fact now that it extends way past 18, the amount of people I've met who have a fucking app on their 23 year old to know exactly where they are physically at all times is fucked up.

[Howard Lutnick]

That's crazy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And it's not. It makes a 23 year old feel like they're no shit. They're acting like they're five. No fuck, they suck at work. They're fucking zoo animals. They can't live in the jungle. They're fucking being tracked by their fucking 59 year old parent. They're 24 fucking years. They're on the payroll, they're being tracked. And then you're upset that they can't stand on their own two feet.

[Howard Lutnick]

No shit.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You created a fucking bubble, baby. I think the neighborhoods really shaped us fair.

[Howard Lutnick]

I think kid, I didn't really think about that until just now. You're right. You're making my childhood where my parents, they had no idea who we were. And we just came back at night, right when it was dark. I had to come back. I had to be at home within 20 minutes of darkness.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Howard, There was a fucking thing on all our TVs when I was growing up that said it's 10pm do you know where your children are? Howard, I just need everybody to understand this.

[Howard Lutnick]

Kids.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's right, kids under 30. If you're listening, listen to me. On television, which, remember pre Internet, it was life. It's the. It's no phone, no Internet. Television was life. 80 million people would watch an episode of MASH at 10pm There would be this like public service announcement commercial in the 80s that would come on and be like, it's 10pm do you know where your children are? Because we, because sometimes they forgot that we hadn't come home yet.

[Howard Lutnick]

Be a parent, that's right. At 10 o'clock, be a parent. Try to pay attention. Be a parent.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I mean, it's crazy. Anyway, I was just curious, like I really do think the east coast and listen, the west coast got their skater swimming, surfer version of this. But fucking 60s, 70s, 80s, New York, New Jersey, Long island, state island, like just that outside and it was just fucking rough. Like I just think, I really think until you get punched in the face, you're not fully like a functioning real man. And I think that, and that's figuratively or no.

[Howard Lutnick]

The bus, the bus was a war zone.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

War zone.

[Howard Lutnick]

War zone. You go on the bus, the bus driver, you know, my kids, they have no idea we had war on. The war on the back of the bus.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

When modern bullying became a thing in the last 20 years, I was like, oh, this is sad. Let me get up to date on this. When I dug under the hood, I'm like, oh, you mean every day of 1st to 12th grade? It's just we're in a very different era. And it's. By the way, what concerns me is it's so obvious. It's similar to what happened with the Roman Empire and every other empire. A lot of what Europe's shortcoming. Europe has amazing strengths, but a lot of its shortcomings, it's just sustained prosperity. It's. It's hard to be hungry when you're fed.

[Howard Lutnick]

All right, so I graduated.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Talk to me about the transit. Yeah, I'm glad you were.

[Howard Lutnick]

So I graduated from college, and friend of the family connects me with Bernie Kanter. And I get a job. Okay, and I get a job.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But educate everybody. You know, you're in your own world. Tell everybody. So before I get a job, 99% of people are like, who's Bernie Cantor? They're looking at a job.

[Howard Lutnick]

So before I get a job, I have a summer job, and I get that summer job. A friend of my family gets me a summer job, and he puts me in a company that's on Wall Street. Okay, It's a brokerage company on Wall Street. I don't know anything about it, but it gets me a job. All my friends go to Europe for the junior year abroad, and I go to work. So I get an apartment in the city by myself, and I do, like, a summer sublet. Used to go to the Village Voice, and you look at a sublet in the back and the classified ads. I mean, people don't have any idea. You look at the newspaper and. And I get this apartment and I go to work.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What year is this?

[Howard Lutnick]

This is. I guess it's 80, 81 kids again.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I love doing this for the audience. New York's a fucking shithole. Just so you understand, 1981, 80 New York. It's the New York you think it is. Like, all the kids that come and intern here that are still a little bit in a bubble, and they're like, oh, New York is way less scary than I thought. 1980, New York was a fucking shithole. The city was bankrupt. It was a mess. This is right before the Reagan thing kicked in. This is like a tough New York.

[Howard Lutnick]

Yeah, it was fun, but, you know, so I got a job, and I. And I'd go. And I go work there, and I had a summer job, but I stayed for the whole semester. So I worked there six months. So I wanted to work. I didn't want to, like, look at it like a movie. I wanted to do the job. And so I pushed to do the job.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And then at that point, Howard, just to educate me, did the Wall street gig. Was that like, yo, you go here, you make money. Was the brand of Wall street epic? Or like, where was the brand of Wall street at that moment epic?

[Howard Lutnick]

That was your way out. So when you had no money, right?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

All the street kids in Brooklyn, the.

[Howard Lutnick]

Bronx, it's like when you think of private equity now or the way to make big money, it was the way out, right? So you just thought Wall Street.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's what I thought.

[Howard Lutnick]

So I was just thinking, well, but I didn't know, like you said the word Wall street after that, I had no idea, right?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You knew that I could have been anything, right? Wall street equals money. But you had no idea. What the fuck?

[Howard Lutnick]

So you could have the worst job or the best job. I was just rando, whatever I did. So I got this job and I just wanted to do the job. And I figured out that the boss, right, just figure out how to get in with the boss. So I just figured out how to get in with the boss. I would write the boss notes saying, do this, this is happening. Did you know? This is happening, this is happening. And at the end of my six months working there, the. The boss calls me into his office. He'd never spoken to me the whole friggin 6 months I was there. Never. I would send him notes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You're allowed to say fucking on this podcast.

[Howard Lutnick]

Oh, you can't. Okay, just.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I could sense how hard I knew a word.

[Howard Lutnick]

I'm a guy in a, you know, I'm a guy in a strip.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I get it. But I know who you are, and I just want you to know that you found a very good place to be. You could get away with all of it. Go ahead.

[Howard Lutnick]

All right. So then he doesn't talk to me at all, whole time. And then he calls me in the last day and he takes his desk out and he's got every note I wrote. Wow. And he starts talking to me about this and this and this and this and this and this and this. So it was really good.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Epic.

[Howard Lutnick]

And then he offers me a summer job next year, right? So I get a summer job next year. So I'm cool, I'm golden. And here's that big moment I learned during those six months. I was getting direct deposit, where they put the 250 bucks a week that I was getting paid into direct deposit. They put it right in the bank. Yeah, right. So when I go back to college, right, they. They send me the pay stub, and I'm like, no, no, no. I call the boss up. I said, no, no. I. I went back to school. You got. You got to stop it. He goes, you coming back this summer? I said, yeah. He goes, ah, keep it. So I thought he was giving me 250 bucks. No, 250 a week. He kept paying me the whole semester. And when I got the second check, I went to the dining center and I leaped onto the table and I did the Hulk. I was like, Yeah, I got 250 bucks a week. A week. I took girls. 1980, I took girls out to restaurants. I took girls to restaurants. I bought gas for a car.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I was like, wait a minute.

[Howard Lutnick]

I was the king.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Going to restaurants. 250 bucks. With inflation in 1980, in the middle of nowhere, Pennsylvania, I'm surprised you didn't buy fucking restaurants. I mean, it was a lot of money.

[Howard Lutnick]

So it was. It was so I was like, the man, okay? Because I. I would. I would buy all the beer for everybody. It was like, fine. I was great. And then I went back that summer. So that company sells. Buys a division from Bernie Kanter, okay? From. So. So Bernie Kanter is like this famous industrialist guy, right? Famous Wall street guy. Rockstar. Largest collector of Rodin's in the world. You know the Thinker. Yeah, right. Like, he's the man. There's a wing named after him at the Met, okay? And he sells a division to these guys. These are just regular Italian guys, and they. And they buy the company from him and they invite me during that summer to work on that deal. So I'm sort of in the room like the young guy. Like, whatever. I'm just younger. But I'm a pet of the boss because he likes me now, right? So Bernie Kanter sees that I'm a pet of his, so they call me up and they offer me. They say, whatever he offers you, when you graduate, I'll pay you double.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Wow.

[Howard Lutnick]

So they were offering me like 20 grand, right? So now I'm going to make 40 grand going to Canforce again.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I need everybody to hear this. 1981 or two or whatever year we're talking about. 40 grand was real money, real numbers.

[Howard Lutnick]

Yeah, yeah, that's real money. It's like making 100 now. It's like 100, but it's different.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And you know this because you definitely you know this better than I do. But 100 now, with the way everything has played out, with all the money that was printed a like, it's. I just want everybody to know it's a lot of fucking money. At 22 years old in 1981. Go ahead.

[Howard Lutnick]

All right. So I walk into Canter Fitzgerald. So I take the job there. Cause they offer me double. And I see this guy, and he's a rock star.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And how big is the brand? Cantor Fitzgerald disappoint in Wall Street.

[Howard Lutnick]

It's a great middle market guy. Meaning he's not Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley. But he's like the next level down.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Right?

[Howard Lutnick]

It's respect. Yeah. And it's the number one bond firm in the world. Okay? So I go in there and I'm like a big swinger, right? I think they love me. And I go see them. I'm a hot guy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Come on.

[Howard Lutnick]

I got. Pay me double. They love me. And the guy says, listen. So they send me into the president's office, who I've never met before. So he sits me down, he goes, listen, we hired you. Cause we hate the other guy. And we knew you were his pet and we couldn't give a shit about you. Just get the fuck out of my office.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I love it.

[Howard Lutnick]

So I walk in like I'm a big swagger. And I walk out like he just steps on my face and pushed me, like. And I'm like, rude kiln.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I've always thought. I've always thought from afar. And it's fun to say this to you now that your life would be a real movie. I'm so pumped. I really hope that scene is in the movie. Cause that's a fucking epic scene.

[Howard Lutnick]

Cause I was. My ego was so big. And then I'm like literal roadkill. Like I'm the squirrel at the end. Like, I just got smashed.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Actually, I want to make this a learning moment for a lot of people. No bullshit. Don't hyperbolize it. If you don't remember. You don't remember. But I'm just curious, Real talk. How much did it crush you? Like, for real? For real? Kind of just for the afternoon, for a week, or did you say, you motherfucker, I'm gonna have your job? Like, how do you handle it? Actually, no bullshit.

[Howard Lutnick]

I was just stunned. I was just crushed. Like, I had no. I didn't see it coming. You know, it was like. I'm like this. I got the view. I got the view. I get the view. And it just hits me, like, right from Here in the side of the head. And I was like, why didn't you look that way? Like, I had no idea what's coming. I was like, total, total, like slammed by a two by four in the head. And I was like, wandering around. So I'm running around the firm. I felt like, you know, like, you know what it did, like a Seinfeld episode, you know, just wandering around. I've got the Pinsky file, you know, Like. Like nobody cares about me.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Howard Lutnick]

So I had to go find myself a job in the firm. Like, literally, I walked around the firm trying to find a job, and they're paying me 40 grand. They don't give a crap about me. I know I'm going to get fired, right? I'm just going to get fired. They just wanted to just mess with the other guy and screw. They didn't care about me. I was just. I was just dirt.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Did you think about finding someone to latch on to, like a mentor? Like, well, that's, that's like value in you.

[Howard Lutnick]

So this, this is the first lesson, okay? So you go into the trading floor, and the trading floor is just this vast, like, football field with people, okay? And I said, all right, what the hell am I going to do? Like, I'm lost and what the hell am I gonna do? So I said, all right, first lesson. Find the winner on the floor. And no one's helping me, okay? So, no, I can't ask someone who's the winner? Who's this and that? Find the winner on the floor. So I start walking around and I'm watching.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yep.

[Howard Lutnick]

Okay. So I pick real quick.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I apologize, Howard. Real quick. Kids, again, this is the blessing that you don't realize you have. There's unlimited free fucking content on the Internet that will teach you act absolutely everything. And now with AI, you can ask it and get it in a nanosecond. This is literally an era where you have to, like, do what Howard's talking about. Like, now everything is at your fucking fingertips. Perfect can give you 97 answers. He could have DMed a thousand firms and gone somewhere else. No, he had to literally walk around a fucking football field and just look.

[Howard Lutnick]

At humans, look at human beings and try to pick the winner. Okay? So then I try to pick who's the winners, right? Try to sense, like, who's the big dog in the room and who's the winner. And I walk up to him and.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I asked how long it take. How long were you watching? Three days, two weeks, A month?

[Howard Lutnick]

No. No. Because if I didn't If I didn't have a job within 48 hours, I thought I was fired.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's what you thought?

[Howard Lutnick]

Yeah, because this guy said, I don't give a crap. So you.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You get. You. You're walking around in a daze for 30 minutes. You wreck.

[Howard Lutnick]

You.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You kind of calibrate, I better get a job.

[Howard Lutnick]

I better get a job. So I go in and I'm just looking, and I find a guy who I think is a winner. Okay? I just pick, okay, that's a guy who's a winner. Because you could see other people are, like, grabbing. Listening to him and stuff like that. So I walk up to him and I said, what kind of coffee you like? And I just get him coffee. I go out and I just get him coffee. Right? And then the first.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Another fun thing, kids, good news. Coffees were, like, 12 cents back then. Like, didn't have any of this fucking bullshit. $7 fucking.

[Howard Lutnick]

No, no, it was black coffee, 25 bucks. I just went to the coffee machine. No, no, there was no downstairs.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Got it.

[Howard Lutnick]

There's no downstairs. I thought it was Starbucks.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Oh, I thought this was. No, no, it was 1980s coffee. I thought you went downstairs to the fucking coffee, like, vendor, like the hot dog guy, and gave him a quarter and brought up a fucking coffee.

[Howard Lutnick]

No, I went. I went. I found the coffee over there. I just brought them coffee machines, okay? And then what I realized is some guys would treat me. So I started doing that. I picked, like, five people because I didn't know what to do, and I just would get them coffee.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Howard Lutnick]

And I'd say, look, I'll do whatever you want. I'll do any. Any chores, you want, anything. Because I have nothing, right? I have nothing. So the only thing I have to Give is energy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

100%.

[Howard Lutnick]

That's all I have to give. So I'd say, look, you know, but you got to take care of me. And what? Some people would just walk by me the next day and they'd say, you know, black with sugar. They thought I was a coffee guy. Of course. And so. And then I dropped that guy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Howard Lutnick]

Because he's. He thinks he's the coffee guy. I'm not the coffee guy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

He's not in.

[Howard Lutnick]

And then I found someone who I liked, okay? And he decided he liked me. So he said. He said, sit down. Okay? Then I had a job. He'd sit down. He said, sit down. And then what was that? My job. Rick Chapman.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Rick.

[Howard Lutnick]

Rick Chapman.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Rick.

[Howard Lutnick]

Rick Chapman and Rick Chapman. So. And here's what he did. He Said, where did Rick live? Actually, in New Jersey, because I mowed his lawn.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Do you know what town? I'm a Jersey boy. I'm actually genuinely curious.

[Howard Lutnick]

I don't remember standing. No worries, go ahead. I mowed his lawn once because he said, if you mow him along, I'll do this for you. Because what happens is he became transactional.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Howard Lutnick]

Which is so.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Which is a gift for you.

[Howard Lutnick]

Oh, it was.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That was the greatest thing that ever happened.

[Howard Lutnick]

Because what was I doing? I was buying an education in exchange for energy. It's great, right? So I would mow his lawn, I'd pick up his dry cleaning, I get his car washed. But what he did was he called his best client and he said, you go get your young guy. Pick your favorite young guy. I'm gonna bring my young guy and we're gonna go out to dinner. And he takes me out to dinner. And I tell you what, Rick, his client, when he was retired, called me up and said, you know, he sure could buy a steak, right? Because he's biting on his. You know, remember he had great. You had a great expense account. Then you got to like really nice restaurants, buy really good wine. So he takes out me and the other young guy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So you must have loved.

[Howard Lutnick]

Oh, yeah, loved it. But I knew, okay, there's a 23 year old on the other side. He's mine. Okay? I'm going to be his best friend.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Love.

[Howard Lutnick]

Okay, I'm going to be his best friend. And I was just his best friend, no matter what. Okay? No matter what. So I said to him, when you trade, someday you're going to trade. Because he's had a client. It was called Salomon Brothers, was bought by Citibank. So it's part of Citibank. And they were the best traders in the world. They said, when you trade, you got to call me, just ask for me, just give me. And I'm his best friend, and I'm following him around and buying beers and, you know, on Saturday night and stuff, I just go out with him like I'm his bestie. And. And that's when I learned to cut the line. Because what happened is on Solomon Brothers line, the top guy, Rick, okay, he's got a Mercedes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yep.

[Howard Lutnick]

Right? The next guy's got a Chevy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yep.

[Howard Lutnick]

The next guy's online. Online. Online. And when you want the Mercedes, you're going to be 46, right? You're just online. And this guy's gonna retire. You blow up. But I said to the 25 year old, call me so he gets the, he gets the call to start trading, right? And he picks up the phone to Canada Fitzgerald, which is the place you trade. He says, I want Howard. And this guy stands up and this giant trading floor goes, who the hell is Howard? And I'm like, me, me. I'm Howard. And I literally go running across the trading floor, right? And pick up the phone from Peter Hirsch, okay? And Peter Hirsch does my first trade. And I just blew past this guy and this guy and this guy. I'm now second or third in line, right? Well, I should have a Chevy, right? And I'm on his phone trading with Peter Hirsch because I worked him from the day I met him. He ends up becoming the boss of sale of all trading at Salma Brothers because he was a winner. And that was lucky, right? But his favorite guy, he picked the.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Favorite guy and I picked the favorite guy. You're talking about the single variable of business that people don't talk enough about. I have 45 Peter Hersh's to your point of luck. I have 157 people that I thought were going to be Peter Hirsch that didn't end up being Peter Hirsch. But net. Net, here's a news alert. You just need one or two, let alone 45.

[Howard Lutnick]

Correct. So I had. So I just worked it so that he introduced me and then that created me cutting the line and other things I would do. I go to, I go to bar night with my friends, right? So I'm well dressed because I work on Wall street and you go to a bar at night with your friends. And I go to like bridge brother. Jimmy's up, right? It's like your feet, the barbecue. I know, yeah, your feet stick to the floor. And I would walk around, find other people well dressed and ask them where they worked and buy them a beer. And, and, and my friends were like, what? What are you doing? And I'd say, look, I don't know anybody. I need to meet people. I don't know anybody. So I meet a guy and he'd say, he's in advertising. Any friends who work on Wall Street? He goes, yeah, yeah, Chuck works on. Yeah, he works Goldman. He goes, hey, Chuck, this idiot wants to buy us a beer if you say hello to him. And I'm like, fine, I just buy him a beer. So one of those happened. I met one of those guys, he worked at Lehman Brothers, by the way. Every firm I talk about, they're all, I'm so old, they're all out of business.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like every firm is coming, gone you know, but I'm 48 and I know all these icon firms. When I was building the wine business, these were all my customers.

[Howard Lutnick]

So this guy works at Lehman Bros. And that company that these guys bought, Bernie Kanter, it's going public and Bernie Cantor's really interested in it and Lehman's doing the deal. So I asked my friend who I met at Brother Jimmy's, just buying him a beer, I said, can you get me the. That, you know, the early draft of the document? Because my boss would really like to read it. He says, well, you know, it's. It's secret, but it's an early draft. I mean, it's not illegal or anything. It's just an early draft. The company doesn't want you to see them undressed before they're ready and all, you know, set to go. And so he drops it off to me at 6:00 at night. He says, I just need it 6:00am in the morning. And I go to my. My boss's Bernie Canor's house, and I. And I give it to him. He goes, where did you get this? I go, I know people who did. I know. I knew the one guy. I met him at Brother Jimmy's, but I bought him a beer. And that's how, like. So Bernie Kanter thinks, oh, this kid, he knows people. He's working it. You know, I was always. I was always working.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Energy's the right answer, Howard. You know, it's funny, I don't use that word, but it's the answer, right? Like when I think about that story from Kanter's angle, like, it's who I was and it's what I'm attracted to when I see it in others. It's not super complicated. It's what coaches appreciate in athletes. It's just fucking life. Like, effort is a fascinating variable in the game. It's just so goddamn obvious who fucking wants it.

[Howard Lutnick]

Yeah. So people think you need to be really smart to be successful. And what I say is you just need to be really clever.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Howard Lutnick]

Okay. If you're really clever, and I would.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Argue that you can be successful. Well to your. But I would say that's semantics, because what you're actually saying, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, and it's funny, I use clever a lot. I think you're talking about kind of like the way art. You know, we're in enough of a similar era. Like, we grew up, unlike the kids today where, like, what college you went to and what your grades were, were the Binary indicator of your horsepower. And you and I grew up in a little bit, brother. Can you do me a favor? Actually I really want. This would make me happy. You were good at school. But can you grab that top? Can you grab that. Are you transcript? This is my report card. I just want you to look at it while I say this and then we'll go back to you like I. It's bad. Yeah. Show the ladies you suck. Yeah. Look at the bottom. Look at my class rank. I think, I think it depends.

[Howard Lutnick]

That is hysterical.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It depends on how. It depends on how you define smart. Right? Like you know, for me, one of the things, you can put it anywhere. One of the things that was very obvious about this and I want every kid to hear this. People skills, man. If you could tell me can I be great at memorizing shit for a test to get an A or have outrageous people skills. It's a fucking thousand to zero in the favor of people skills. Yeah, like right. Like it depends on what is smart. Clever to me is just slang for being smart about the actual shit that fucking matters.

[Howard Lutnick]

Humans. You're smart about people, which is what matters. Right. So if you can get someone who's smart and clever, game over then.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Game over.

[Howard Lutnick]

That's what a billionaire is. Okay. A billionaire just has both those things they don't have. You can make huge amounts of money with one and you're a professor with the other. Yeah, right. If you're super smart, you're definitely a professor.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Howard Lutnick]

Okay. Because you're super, super, super smart. But you don't have the other parts. If you have both. Oh, it's another world.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Let's keep going on this story because it's a lot of fun. Where does the next tipping point happen in your career?

[Howard Lutnick]

I have a. An idiosyncrasy of my life, which is I'm a reader. Okay. I mean I have to read the thing. I have to read the thing. It's now the bane of my existence. Meaning I can't sign the end of a document without reading every friggin word.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

This is probably tortured at school, right? Because reading comprehension such a variable in that game. And so you have very strong reading comprehension.

[Howard Lutnick]

Yeah, really strong.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's like if I listen to something or see something, I will never forget it. If I read it, it doesn't fudgeing even I have none.

[Howard Lutnick]

So when I read the reverse. When I read something, it goes into bad is in the document. It comes on me like it's in. It's physical. When I read It. It's physically on me. So, like, I could be reading something and I'm angry. Like, it's making me angry, and someone's looking at me going, why? Why are you so angry? No, you should see what this says. And they're like, what, what it says? Why would that make you angry?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'm like, the intent.

[Howard Lutnick]

That's just the way it is. So, you know, so I. A friend of mine mentions something to me that there's this. There's this railroad and. And the railroad. When the United States of America was being built in 1897, the United States of America decided they wanted to industrialize the country. And it took. By eminent domain, it just took people's land and it brilliantly built the Northern Pacific Railroad that went from the Atlantic to the Pacific, and the Southern Pacific Railroad that went from the. Right. And it just built railroads across the country. And. And I. And the guy mentioned, he goes, you know, this land is probably worth a fortune. So I go. I go to the library and you do microfiche, which basically was like a negative. And you put it on, like a light box and you read it. I mean, now you just go to an iPad and look it up like. Like this. But then you had to go dig it. So I dig up the. The deal, and I find that all this land, Union Pacific Station Philly, Union Pacific Station, San Francisco, Chicago, and all the mineral rights going all across Montana, all the way through all this land is in this company called Burlington Northern. And they got it for free. And they issued $150 million worth of bonds. And by the way, if you want to understand interest rates, in 1897, they issued 3% bonds doing 100 years and 4% bonds doing 150 years. So interest rates have been between 3 and 4% forever for frigging 130 years. So when people say, oh, aren't they so high? You're like, no, this is like ordinary.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What about 1980, when you started your career?

[Howard Lutnick]

Oh, 12, 14, 16. So I go to Bernie Cantor. I walk into his office, right? So he doesn't really know me, right? But I'm like, just doing this stuff.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

How many years in decanter are you? I'm 25, so still fucking early as shit.

[Howard Lutnick]

Three years. And I go, okay, here's my idea. Here's my idea. We take over Burlington Northern. It's about $4 billion, okay? Then we sell the railroad, okay, for like 3 billion. And we'll lose a billion. And then we'll have all this land that I. My genius, 25 year old self who has done absolutely no work and hasn't called a single frigging person, okay? So I have no, I say this land is easily worth $4 billion, okay? Because it's all this land, the mineral rights, $4 billion and, and we make 3 billion. What do you say? What do you think? He says, get the hell out of my office, I'm listening to you. So I keep, every day I pound on him and ultimately he gives me $2 million to invest. So I buy these bonds, interest rates are 12% and I, and I buy them for like 63 cents on the dollar because 3% if you buy it cheaper. The math is you get your 12%, okay, because you bought it cheaper and they go up in value over time, so whatever. So I buy $2 million worth. But I'm not the only one who knows this. The chairman of Burlington Northern announces he's going to retire and he's going to take the land out of this trust, which I read about, okay? And he's gonna put 300 million in US treasuries in and take the land out, okay? But I read the documents and I know what the, what the documents say. And I also, when I was planning this, I called all the bondholders, I knew every bondholders name because I wanted to control the land, to do this whole deal with Bernie Kanter that I made up on my own and no video, so no one knows it's a 25 year old making the calls, right? So then I say, you can't do it. So I call all the bondholders and I say, give me your proxy. I hire a shithead lawyer, okay? I don't know anybody. I hire some lawyer and we write a snarky letter to Burlington Northern saying, you can't take the land. It's in trust, you just can't touch it. General counsel of Burlington Northern calls me on the phone. He says, what do you got? I go, I got $2 million worth of bonds I bought at 63 cents. He goes, all right, here's the deal. I'll give you 2 million bucks, you keep your frigging bonds. I want to take the land. And then because he's going to put Treasuries behind it, the bonds are going to go up to two and a half million. So I'm going to make two and a half million dollars and a $2 million investment in six months. No risk AA bonds. No one's ever made any money in double A bonds. They move like a tortoise running across the street. You say, this baby's going to run across the street. Right. There's no money in it. So I walk into Bernie Kant's office. So now you believe me. I just made two and a half million bucks on a $2 million investment in six months. No risk. They just paid for land. Now, to Bernie Kanter's credit, he says, all right, what do you think I should do? I said, they're going to split this land off. This land's worth a fortune. I told you. It's worth $4 billion. I'm still making it up.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Howard Lutnick]

Okay. I still haven't called a single person.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Howard Lutnick]

He gives me 100 million to invest. He buys 100 million of Burlington Northern stock. They announced they're going to split the company in two. Burlington Northern, the railroad, and Burlington resources, the land. Dupont comes in and pays $6 billion for the land. The stock goes up, doubles as it's doubling. He sells as fast as he can. He makes $100 million, okay. And he gives me a bonus of $1 million. 25 years old, my friends are like, he made 100 million. You only got a million. I'm like, what do you got? What do you got? I got 1250 bonus. How about I get a million dollars?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I just need everybody understand this is 1983. Now four.

[Howard Lutnick]

No, this is 86. I'm 25 again.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'm just sad because money got weird because we just printed a fuckload of it in the last 20 years.

[Howard Lutnick]

And that's the answer, by the way, all inflation is.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You just do not understand how much a million million fucking dollars is in 1986. Like 100,000 a year in 1986 is profoundly wealthy. The way you think of someone who makes 2 to 5 million a year now, it is that big of a Delta. You don't understand.

[Howard Lutnick]

That's insane.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Can I say one thing to the three of you? I have bad news. I like. Actually, I'm a businessman for a living and I have a hard stop in 10 minutes. So I have bad news. Going to have to do part two. We're only at 20. How old are you?

[Howard Lutnick]

25. No, no, right now, 63.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, we're only at fucking 25, so. Fans. I know. I just want you to know there's going to be a part two. If I have to go somewhere, you come back. Because I want to keep this going, but I'm not going to be able to. So, like, okay, go ahead.

[Howard Lutnick]

All right, so then we haven't even.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Gotten to, like, all right, anything yet, okay? Just so everybody knows. But now it's going to be like Star Wars. We're going to do three episodes.

[Howard Lutnick]

But now I'm a rock star, okay?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

A massive rock star.

[Howard Lutnick]

Rock star. So now I'm 1986, too.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So the Reagan thing's in full effect. New York's out of control. It went from a shithole to really becoming what. The precursor to what New York is now. You must be out of control.

[Howard Lutnick]

Turn. Then there's a stock market crash in 87, right?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

October, Black Friday, right?

[Howard Lutnick]

Stock market crash in 87.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Actually, I don't want to skip over that. So you make this massive sitch in 86. You're, like, rolling. Now you're, like, envisioning everything, correct? World domination, how big of a. Like, how much did you get fucked? Cause you might have not. Cause it might have not.

[Howard Lutnick]

I get fucked.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So Black Friday, you weren't in a situation where that really destroyed you, but did it scare you of, like. Oh, wait a minute. It's not always just up, up and up. I might, like. Was that something you took note of?

[Howard Lutnick]

All right, so here's. Okay, so in April of 87. Of 87, right?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Because it happened in October.

[Howard Lutnick]

Interest rates. Interest rates start leaping, okay? They go up 100 basis points in 87, 1% up. And they're going up, up, up, up, up. And I'm thinking, this baby's gonna crash.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

This baby being what?

[Howard Lutnick]

The market's gonna crash. The stock market's gonna crash. I go to everybody, say, short the market. Short the market. Short the market. So I. And the firm won't let me short the market because who am I? I'm nobody. So they're not letting me do anything, right? So I can't do anything. So I start borrowing money from everybody I know to short the market. Jesus Christ. Okay, May, June, July. I borrowed money from my grandfather, which bad news if you can't pay him back. And I borrow from everybody, okay? And the market keeps going up, and you don't remember, but In August of 87, the market hits absolutely new highs. And I am absolutely, completely and totally broke in every way. All the money's gone. Everything's gone. I bet it all interest rates are flying. I'm saying, this baby's going to crash. And it's hitting new highs, new highs. And I am broke. And I borrowed money from everybody and shorted it. Stock market breaks in October. But that's the way the world works, right? It comes after you go broke. But one friend of mine, I borrowed money from Him. And he was a stockbroker in California, and he bought options that matured at the end of October. And he hit and I. And it hit. And I earned enough money to pay everybody back, and I lost all mine. But imagine I borrowed 10,000 bucks from you, and I walk in after it crashes, and I go, huge. I give you a 10. You're like, oh, Howard, you killed it. Meanwhile, I had to go back to my grandfather, borrow money to pay rent. And you know when you go to your grandfather and say, I need money to pay rent, and it's really painful. So.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Because. Did you. That million bucks you made in 86, you. You invested it?

[Howard Lutnick]

Oh, no, I bet it. I bet it. Because I was definitely a break. And I was completely right. But the moral of that story is timing is everything. Timing is everything. So I was. I was busted. But then I do another one in 1988 where interstate banking comes. So a friend of mine tells me that interstate banking outside, basically, you could only be a state. Remember, Citibank was New York City Bank.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Howard Lutnick]

Because you could only be in New York.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's right.

[Howard Lutnick]

Right. You could only be state by state. And they were going to break that up. So Pennsylvania says, okay, we're going to let outsiders in in a year. So I figure out, okay, why don't we buy a crappy Pennsylvania bank that's got nice locations, it'll definitely get acquired. So I go to Bernie Kanter and I said, okay, here's my idea. And this time, he doesn't mess around. He goes, all right, let's go. Let's go. So it's 1988. He says, let's go. Not only does he put 100 million in, but he tells all his buddies, because, you know, when you're rich now he's confident you want to do.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I get it.

[Howard Lutnick]

He puts all his buddies in for 50 million bucks. And we buy this company called First Pennsylvania. Six months later, it gets bought by Gerard National bank for 12. We pay 6, buys it for 12. Bank of New York comes in right after Interstate bank comes and buys for 18. 6, 12, 18. We go up, straight up, triples his money. He makes 300. But he put up 100. He gets 300 back. So he's a profit of 200. Guess what? He gives me two bucks. And now I got money again. He's back. I got money back. So basically, I got money back and I got money again. And now. Okay, he liked me the first time. I made him money. He loved you the second time. He's loving Me. Okay? Now, whatever. I. Now I'm.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'm very aware why Steve Ross likes me. When you start putting up more than one win, it matters.

[Howard Lutnick]

That's what happens.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's right.

[Howard Lutnick]

Now he loves me. And now it's 1988, and now I'm on fire in the firm. So I'm managing his money. I'm managing all his friends money.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You're on fire.

[Howard Lutnick]

Doing every bed I want, I'm making. My income starts to double, okay? So if you could look back at me beginning with 40 grand, then I made 80 grand, then I made 160 grand. 320. 650. A million three. Now if you keep going, you know, if you double and double and double. So now I'm making, like, my normal job. I'm making millions a year. Millions a year. Plus I did this for this extra. And Bernie Kanter's in love with me, right? He's in love with me.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

How old's Bernie at this time?

[Howard Lutnick]

So he dies at. He dies in 1996 at 79. So, you know, he's in his mid-70s. He's mid-70s, and he's in love with me. I become like his. I'm totally. Now I'm not the kitchen cabinet, right? 1991, he fires the president of the company, the guy who told me you're roadkill.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That dude.

[Howard Lutnick]

Yeah. And he says, and he promotes me. At the age of 29, I become the president of the company.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Wow.

[Howard Lutnick]

And so I'm the president. Company. We're growing companies on fire. It's growing, it's rocking. And then, 1986, right? So the deal is in. The company is I hire everybody. Like, it's like you're hiring everybody. And everyone says, okay, what happens if something happens to Bernie? You know, Bernie Kane is like, the owner. What happens? And it's like, I control the company if something happens to him. And so if he dies, it's me. And you'd say, cool, all right, you're hiring me. I'm cool with that. He goes on life support, and his wife decides she's going to try to sell the company. And so we have a giant fight, and I go to my lawyer. What do we do? He goes, let's not snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. You have a straight flush. Just do nothing. She hires kex, this big PR company. And I get a call on Friday night. We have a big court date coming. And on Friday night, I get a call from the New York Times, this woman named Diana Enriquez, and she Says, listen, I've been working with Kexts for three weeks, and I'm gonna write the. Ripping a story that you're an asshole and do you want to talk to me or not? You're the COVID of Sunday's New York Times business section.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What year is this? 89.

[Howard Lutnick]

This is. No, no. Now we're all the way up to 96.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Just so everybody knows, even though the Internet is out in 96, like, it's the 1996 Internet, which is, like, it's still fairly small. And like, this business, like, this is the punchline of the. Like, every single person of any kind of anything in the business universe in the world, let alone America, reads the Sunday business section. This is a big deal, right?

[Howard Lutnick]

So I decide, you know what? Screw it. I'll talk to her.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Smart.

[Howard Lutnick]

So I sit down with her and talk to her, and she writes a story. With partners like these, who needs rivals, right? Her picture, my picture, and Bernie Kanter's picture, like, gigantic. And he's on life support.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yep.

[Howard Lutnick]

Anyway, I win the case in every possible way, and I buy her out. And then my son is six days old, okay? And I hold him up in Delaware. I'm in Delaware, where we settle, and I buy her out, and it's over. The company is now my company forever. Forever. It's my company. And I hold my new son up like Simba. And I'm like, hey, you know, like. Like, you know, that's it. And I'm like, you have no. I look at my little boy and I say, six days old. I go, you have no idea what a good day you just had. You have. He just hit it. And so then that was the day the firm was mine.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Wow.

[Howard Lutnick]

Okay. And then I went and hired everybody we loved. Because the rule was, if it's my firm, I'm only going to work with people that we like. That's the rule of common. I make that the rule of the company. And we work with everybody we like. So I say it this way. We all have the same rainbow friends. Now, think about your friends. Think on this side, smart, capable. You know, the Wooners and the ones on this side, crazy. Make you laugh in a bar harder than anybody else, but, you know, little why. And I'd say, just hire these. And that's my firm we hire. So my brother joins my best friend, joins my. My college roommate's brother, went to Harvard Business School. He runs banking. Everybody. I hire everybody I love, but I make that the rule. Not from me, of course. Everybody. So every. The Security guard hires so I don't have to worry about them. You know, if one of them has to go to a wedding, the other guy fills in.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know, it's just family business.

[Howard Lutnick]

That's the firm.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Family business.

[Howard Lutnick]

That's located on the 101st to the 105th floor of the World Trade Center. The planets are fucking building, you know, My friends get killed. I lose my brother, he's 36. Lose my best friend, Doug, he's 39. I lose my other best friend's brother. I lose everybody. Everybody. But everybody loses everybody. Everybody loses everybody. It's like. He's like, look at this office, right? And say, okay. Everybody dies, okay? And you're taking. I was taking my son to his first day of kindergarten. That's it. That same son. I'm in his first day of kindergarten. So I raced to the building. I raced to the building. And I get to the door of the building because I'm just trying to grab people.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What time did you go to the office prior to first day of kindergarten?

[Howard Lutnick]

Almost 7:30.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Howard Lutnick]

The show is on. All right. Your show is on. Okay. At 8:48. The show is on. Everybody who matters on September 11th is in the office. Not a holiday. There's no reason to be out. Everybody's there. Just. It was my first day of kindergarten for Horseman. My best friend Doug, his kid goes to Riverdale and he dies because it's not his first day of school. Everybody dies. Everybody's dead. And, you know, I. I get to the building. You know, I head right to the building. Right away, my phone keeps ringing. As it turns out, my phone kept ringing. I kept picking up as a flip phone and there was no connection. It was my brother calling. So I get my sister on the phone when I'm going downtown because someone. They tell me a plane hit the building. But I don't know, I haven't seen it, right? They just hit playing at the building. I figure it's like some stupid Piper Cub. Some guy clipped the building or Idiot. So I tell my driver, I said, just go to Fifth Avenue because you can see. I know you can see the building as soon as. And there's just flames, just smoke just pouring out of the place. And he starts crying. I said, let's just get there. Let's just get there. And, you know, I get my sister on the phone and. And she said, I spoke to Gary, my brother, and. And I said, oh, what'd he say? She goes, I got him on the phone and. And. And he called and I Said, well, thank God you're not. There he goes, I am there. I'm calling to say goodbye. I'm gonna die. Smokes pouring in. There's no way out. There's nowhere to go. I'm just saying goodbye. I gotta die. I tried to call Howard. I can't get through to him. Just tell him I love him. I'm sorry. That's it? That's it. So. So I. So I just go to the building and I'm just hoping people can get out. I'm just hoping some way there's people to get out. But I know they're all in there, and I know there's nothing they can do. And then I'm standing at the doorway of the building. I'm grabbing people, asking them what floor they came on. And, you know, in the highest floor I get to is like, 90, 92. And then I hear this sound. It's the loudest sound I ever heard in my life. It's like. It's like Titanic. Remember the movie when it breaks in half? That's the sound. I don't know what the hell's going on. So I start running. I got my suit and tie on, right? My shoes on, and I'm running as hard as I can from nothing. I have no idea what's going on. I'm just running my ass off. And I look over my shoulder and a black tornado's chasing me. You saw that smoke sort of rolling. And I'm running as hard as I can, and this tornado's chasing me. And then the tornado comes across this way, and I see the tornado coming, so I dive under a car and I hold my hand like this, and it just goes whoosh. And then the world is black and silent. And I didn't. I'm not clever enough to put something over my mouth. I have no idea what's going on. I'm thinking, son of a. I was uptown and I was safe. Now I'm gonna die. I'm gonna die because it's thinking about. It's black, and I'm holding my breath. I'm like, I can't believe I'm gonna die. I said, actually, I can't hear any sound. I'm dead. This is dead. I can't hear any noise. I'm outside. It's dead silent. So I take my fingers and I go like this because I can't see. My eyes are open and it's black. I stare myself in the eyes. I'm like, ah. I go, okay. Okay. I'm blind and Deaf, but I'm alive. So I stand up, of course I'm hiding under a car. Smash the livid out of my head. Now I'm bleeding off the side of my head. Self inflicted. So I climb out from under the car and I get up and it's pitch black. So what's the first thing I do? I start running. But of course I'm running. Pitch black. So what do I hit? Parked car. I go flying over to park. So now I'm bleeding, I'm limping. But all self induced, right? And then I realize, okay, okay. So now I'm walking like this in the dark. And then I see a flashlight. So I walk to the flashlight and there's a cop holding the flashlight, just holding up like this. So I put my hand on the back of his collar. So let's get the hell out of here. And he sits down. He just sits down because he's in shock because this thing went right through him, of course. And so I give it up. So I grabbed the flashlight out of the guy's hand and now I'm walking my flashlight, I find a. Like a. I think it was like a coffee republic, you know, some coffee shop that's blown smithereens. And I go in and I find a bottle of water and there's a paper towels. So I take the paper towels and then I put the paper towels under my arm. So I got giant flashlight, got the paper towels, right? I got a bottle of water. I start walking. As the smoke starts to clear, gets lower and lower and lower. My driver jumps on me from behind me, he's like, Mr. Lennon, you're alive.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You're alive.

[Howard Lutnick]

I can't believe you're alive. Because he was a. He's a retired detective. And he goes, you're alive. And I turn around, he goes, what do they give rich people, like flashlights and water? He's like, who gets flashlight and water? Like, where did you get this stuff? And then we walked uptown. And we just walked uptown knowing that they were all dead.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, I'm sure everybody was moved as much as everybody in this room. I really beg that we can do part two of this.

[Howard Lutnick]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Thank you.

[Howard Lutnick]

Thanks, man.

[Mike]

I hope you all enjoy this episode. Make sure you come back tomorrow to listen to the second part of this incredible conversation. Enjoy.