Legacy, Attention & Building Something That Lasts in 2025 | GaryVee x Maury Povich Conversation

Summary

Podcast Summary: Legacy, Attention & Building Something That Lasts in 2025 | GaryVee x Maury Povich Conversation

Episode: Legacy, Attention & Building Something That Lasts in 2025
Host: Gary Vaynerchuk
Guest: Maury Povich
Release Date: May 16, 2025

---

Introduction

In this compelling episode of The GaryVee Audio Experience, entrepreneur and media mogul Gary Vaynerchuk engages in a deep and emotional conversation with the legendary talk show host Maury Povich. Together, they explore themes of legacy, the evolving media landscape, the essence of attention in today’s digital age, and the profound impact of parenting on the next generation. Their dialogue intertwines personal anecdotes with insightful observations, offering listeners a rich tapestry of experiences and wisdom.

---

Evolution of Media and the Currency of Attention

Gary and Maury delve into the transformation of media from the golden age of radio and television to the fragmented and rapid-paced landscape of today’s social media and streaming services. They discuss how the concept of attention has shifted, becoming the ultimate currency in the digital era.

Notable Quote:

Maury Povich [00:03:22]: "I would argue that we're still living it. Obviously we've had the support of the visual of video, but when people talk about their favorite quotes from a movie, they're not talking about the visual part, they're talking about the words."
(Timestamp: 03:22)

Maury emphasizes the enduring power of storytelling and verbal communication, highlighting that despite the visual dominance of modern media, the essence of conveying value remains unchanged.

Key Points:

• Transition from Radio to TV to Social Media: The conversation traces the shift from radio as the primary source of information to the rise of television, and now to the dominance of social media platforms where attention is fleeting and constantly contested.
• Attention as Currency: Both agree that in today’s world, capturing and maintaining attention is paramount, likening it to a form of currency essential for success in business and media.
• Day Trading of Media: Gary introduces the analogy of day trading, suggesting that media strategy now requires constant adaptation and real-time decision-making, much like the fast-paced environment of financial markets.

Notable Quote:

Gary Vaynerchuk [00:30:45]: "You've taken day trading and applied it to everything... It's every day we have to be remarkable at making pictures and videos and running media dollars through the pipes of the social networks that now dominate society's attention."
(Timestamp: 30:45)

---

Building Legacy Through Entrepreneurship

The duo explores the concept of legacy, emphasizing the importance of building something that endures beyond one’s lifetime. Gary shares his entrepreneurial journey, including early ventures in trading cards and pivotal investment decisions.

Key Points:

• Entrepreneurial Roots: Gary recounts his formative years selling trading cards in New Jersey malls, which laid the foundation for his business acumen and understanding of market demand.
• Investment Insights: He candidly discusses his investment regrets, notably passing on an early investment opportunity with Uber, illustrating the inherent risks and learning curves in entrepreneurship.

Notable Quote:

Gary Vaynerchuk [00:16:17]: "Travis came and said, we'd love for you to invest... The truth is, Travis and Garrett Camp, who actually came up with the idea, they were actually incubating it and somebody else was going to run it... I made a crucial mistake in passing twice in the angel round."
(Timestamp: 16:17)

Gary underscores the value of embracing mistakes as integral to the path of success, advocating for a mindset that views every setback as a learning opportunity.

---

The Impact of Parenting on Self-Esteem and Development

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on modern parenting practices, particularly the proliferation of eighth-place trophies and their unintended consequences on children’s self-esteem and resilience.

Key Points:

• Critique of Eighth-Place Trophies: Maury argues that these trophies may instill a sense of indifference and entitlement, potentially leading to anxiety and depression.
• Balanced Parenting: They advocate for a balanced approach where parents encourage resilience and toughness without veering into harshness, promoting a middle ground they refer to as “Meet Me in the Middle.”

Notable Quote:

Maury Povich [00:38:21]: "I believe eighth place trophies have led to incredible self-esteem issues, anxiety, and I would argue, and this is tough territory to go into, I would say teaching human beings indifference."
(Timestamp: 38:21)

Gary concurs, suggesting that fathers today can adopt a more assertive yet supportive role, drawing from his own upbringing to reinforce the importance of discipline and genuine affirmation.

---

AI and the Future of Media

The conversation takes a forward-looking turn as Gary discusses the transformative potential of artificial intelligence in media creation and consumption.

Key Points:

• AI-Driven Content Creation: Gary envisions a future where AI can generate content that replicates the voices and styles of public figures, potentially creating media well beyond human lifespans.
• Ethical Considerations: He raises concerns about the implications of AI in preserving and manipulating personal likenesses, emphasizing the need for thoughtful navigation of these technologies.

Notable Quote:

Gary Vaynerchuk [00:32:45]: "You will be making content 100 years from now. I'm being dead serious. Your image, your name, image, and likeness... on the other side, it will spit out us talking with the logic of our lives deployed against current events."
(Timestamp: 32:45)

Maury reflects on the rapid pace of technological advancement, acknowledging both the excitement and the anxiety it engenders about the future of media and personal legacy.

---

Personal Stories and Family Influence

Gary shares heartfelt stories about his immigrant parents, particularly his father's relentless work ethic and the emotional bond forged through shared struggles and triumphs.

Key Points:

• Immigrant Legacy: Gary discusses his family's journey from Belarus to New Jersey, highlighting the sacrifices and resilience that shaped his own drive and values.
• Parental Impact: He speaks poignantly about his father's stoic love and the profound influence of his mother’s encouragement, which instilled in him the belief that he was capable of anything.

Notable Quote:

Gary Vaynerchuk [00:33:47]: "Making my parents proud is the framework of my life. This goes back to why I'm so grateful. My father is a Soviet father... The first time I ever went to my dad's store to work... he did say he loved me and that was fucking huge."
(Timestamp: 33:47)

Maury echoes these sentiments, sharing parallels from his own upbringing and the pivotal role his parents played in his personal and professional development.

---

Heartbreaking Sports Moments

In a lighter yet deeply personal segment, Gary and Maury reminisce about significant sports moments that left lasting impressions on them, intertwining these memories with reflections on broader societal changes.

Key Points:

• Gary’s Memories: He recounts his father's passionate support for baseball and the deep disappointment when the Washington Senators moved, underscoring the emotional ties to sports as a reflection of community and identity.
• Maury’s Observations: Maury shares his own experiences witnessing historical sports events, emphasizing how such moments encapsulate the zeitgeist of their times.

Notable Quote:

Gary Vaynerchuk [00:44:15]: "My father would just rail on him, unmerciful with him in the papers... The Washington Redskins came on the field in their colors, burgundy, gold and Caucasian."
(Timestamp: 44:15)

This segment serves as a poignant reminder of how sports can both unite and divide, reflecting larger societal narratives and personal identities.

---

Conclusion: Embracing Legacy and Adaptability

As the conversation wraps up, Gary and Maury reiterate the importance of building a lasting legacy through adaptability, resilience, and the mindful cultivation of attention in a rapidly changing media landscape. They encourage listeners to balance ambition with humility, embracing both successes and failures as integral to personal and professional growth.

Final Thoughts:

• Optimism in Media Consumption: Gary advises fostering positivity in social media interactions to shape a more optimistic digital environment.
• Balanced Approach to Life and Business: Both emphasize the significance of maintaining a balanced perspective, valuing hard work, and staying true to one’s values amidst external pressures and evolving trends.

Notable Quote:

Gary Vaynerchuk [00:28:29]: "If you're looking for positivity, you can find it... fear never wins in the end."
(Timestamp: 28:29)

---

Key Takeaways

• Adaptability is Crucial: In the face of rapid technological advancements, staying adaptable and responsive is essential for longevity in any field.
• Attention is the New Currency: Understanding and harnessing the dynamics of attention can drive success in the digital age.
• Legacy Through Resilience: Building something that lasts requires embracing both successes and setbacks, using each as a stepping stone toward enduring achievements.
• Balanced Parenting Matters: Fostering resilience and genuine self-worth in children is vital for their long-term mental health and success.
• Embrace Positivity: Cultivating a positive digital footprint can influence both personal well-being and societal trends.

---

This episode offers a profound exploration of how personal histories, media evolution, and the pursuit of legacy intertwine in shaping our present and future. Through genuine storytelling and insightful dialogue, Gary Vaynerchuk and Maury Povich provide listeners with valuable lessons on building something that truly lasts.

Transcript

[A]

Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Gary Vee Audio Experience. On this one we're sharing Gary's appearance on the iconic Maury Povich's podcast. Gary and Maury share a raw and surprisingly emotional conversation about everything from legacy and hustle to media history, missed opportunities, and what the future holds. They go deep on the evolution of media and its progression over the years. Why attention is the ultimate currency, how eighth place trophies might be hurting our kids, and so much more. Let's get right into it.

[B]

Today's guest is someone who needs no introduction, unless of course, you've been living under a rock and didn't have wi fi. He's a digital pioneer, an entrepreneur's entrepreneur, a five time best selling author. He is the owner creator of VaynerMedia. But more than anything, he's somebody who speaks from the gut, leads from the heart, and never backs down from the truth. Gary Vee, welcome to On Par with Maury Povich. Wow.

[C]

It is my great honor. Thank you, sir.

[B]

No, okay, so I'm starting out in this world. Okay, maybe I've done seven or eight of these things. You are a master at it. So what do you think the most important thing is?

[C]

The thing that you were a master of long before I was a master of it. The reality is that when you think about podcasting or social media content or communicating, it's all the same thing. Sure, there might be some slight nuances, but why you had your iconic career. What's working for me is it starts with bringing value. And value comes in all forms. Some people provide value by being remarkable journalists and interviewers.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Other people are good at being interviewed. When I think about acting, some people are incredibly classic actors who can crush on Broadway down the street. But others are incredible on the silver screen, though they can't do great on snl cause their improv skills are not as good. Value comes in all shapes and sizes. Beauty, humor, intellect. The secret to podcasting or any medium is are you able to actually give them, the audience, something of value? I think that's something you've provided divided for decades. And that's why this is not any different. It's just a slight tweak.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Does that make sense?

[B]

Yeah. In a modern world. In other words, people now, probably more people now are listening or watching podcasts.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Than are watching traditional tv.

[C]

But to me, that's fun. And we were just talking before we set off. We're doing radio, you and I. Oh, sure. This is radio, my friend.

[B]

Do you know that I. Oh, I. I did radio for the four, first four years of my life. Okay. Before I could get into television. Because we were talking back then in the early 1960s, you couldn't get on television without first being on radio.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

So I hung around a radio station and I ended up.

[C]

Built your craft.

[B]

Yeah. Then I believed. Still today, after 60 plus years of this, the idea of radio and painting pictures with words was the unbelievable moment and method for anybody who wanted to get in the business. Painting pictures with words.

[C]

I would argue we're still living it. Obviously we've had the support of the visual of video, But I would argue when people talk about their favorite quotes from a movie, they're not talking about the visual part, they're talking about the words. And so, yeah, I agree with you. I mean, I think about this a lot. I think about baseball and how beautiful it is on radio and boxing and horse racing. And you start to understand why in the 30s, 40s, 50s, those sports did so well in America. I am a die hard football fan.

[B]

Right.

[C]

American football. Obsessed with my beloved New York Jets.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

It is dramatically more interesting to watch a football game with watch and audio than it is to just listen. Same with the Knicks. And those sports were not as popular when radio was primary. So, you know, painting pictures is incredibly important, but the subject matter also has to be conducive to that medium. And that's what I think a lot about.

[B]

It's very interesting when you talk about that, because I believe that there's more of a personal relationship to a sport from the radio broadcaster than the television broadcaster.

[C]

I think that's right.

[B]

Because the radio broadcaster is like a member of your family.

[C]

Yeah. The intimacy is incredible. And you're relying on it because it's the primary source and it is, in that scenario, the only source of information. To your point, there are people who watch sports with the sound off or with music playing in the background. I can visually see that Patrick Mahomes threw an interception. Fifty years earlier, I would have had to listen to Scully tell me that someone hit a home run, that Gil Hodges made an error. I had to hear him say it. You know, Harry Carey had to tell me that the Cardinals at first were doing good or bad, and then later the Cubs were doing good or bad. Once television came along, a secondary sensory entered the equation and. And it changed the intimacy of that relationship.

[B]

So when you're working in your father's wine and liquor store.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Do you have all these ideas that you have now? Did you have any idea you know, coming from Belarus as a. As a toddler and growing up in New Jersey and working your father's store, that you would be this.

[C]

Yeah, you thought that. Yeah. But it's not because of me. It's because my mother did such a great job.

[B]

Oh, it's your mother.

[C]

Of course. You know, when your mother is telling you you are capable of anything, you believe her.

[B]

You know what my mother would say?

[C]

What?

[B]

Wait till your father comes home with you.

[C]

By the way, my mother gave me plenty of that. The reason I was such a good kid and was disciplined was because my mother, though she built my self esteem to the skyscrapers. Let there be no confusion, she was not parenting in this modern world. There were consequences and ramifications for behavior that she did not believe was proper. So there was plenty of wait till your dad gets home. But what there was always was. She did a couple of things, very importantly. One, she reinforced behavior heavily, verbally. So, for example, yes, I'm a successful entrepreneur, but I will tell you that I associate as a nice guy much more. And I will tell you that that is completely also formed and factored by not only my DNA, but by how I was parented when I was doing nice gestures. I can sit here and feel how I felt eight years ago, 41 years ago, when I opened the door for an elderly lady at a McDonald's in Plainfield, New Jersey. The way my mother reacted to that gesture, you would have thought I won the Nobel Peace Prize.

[B]

But at the same time, I understand you went to work at a mall. You lasted one day.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, like, you know, the reality is that I could. I'm an entrepreneur. You were born to do what you're doing.

[B]

I think so.

[C]

I know so. You're just not doing six decades of it and wanting to do it right now. It's in you. Same for me. Like, there was never lemonade stands, baseball cards, comic books. Shovel. Like, it would snow. Maury, it'd be a snow day.

[B]

Right?

[C]

Every kid in my neighborhood. This is the 80s in Edison, New Jersey, everybody's outside playing.

[B]

Right. What were you doing? Working. Shoveling.

[C]

Yeah, of course. I was trying to convince Robbie Turnick and Eric Godfrey and Andy Greco and Marissa Byrd. I'm like, no, let's not sled. Let's not make a snowman. Everyone get their shovels. We're ringing doorbells, and we're gonna make some money. It was in me.

[B]

You talked about baseball, trading cards.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

As a kid, you were doing this.

[C]

Yeah. You grew up in an era where People were putting Mickey Mantles in their bike spokes. I grew up in an era where for the first time ever, in the late 70s, into the early 80s. Wait a minute, are these worth something? Is this a form of art, an antique? Is this a collectible? And I was right there in the mid-80s, late 80s, and then into the early 90s, right as I was starting to mature as an entrepreneur. And so at the age of 12, 13, I'm not going to baseball card shows to buy cards. I'm buying a hundred dollar table and setting up at that age. At that age. And I will tell you that as I sit here Today, I turned 50 in November. As I sit here today, I would argue that more than half of my foundational business skills were formed in the malls, in the firehouses, in the Elks clubs of New Jersey, where I did shows as a preteen and as an early teen. You learn. You know what's amazing about business? It's similar to sports. Mommy and daddy can't hide you, right? You can't hide. You play sports. If you strike out four times, you struck out four times in school, in corporations, in politics, in university, you can hide, you can, you can paint a fake picture in sports and in business, you can't hide. And if I had a good or bad show, I couldn't hide. And it taught me. It was suffocating excuses. And I learned a lot of skills in those early years.

[B]

So here's my trading card, my baseball card experience. I love baseball cards. Baseball was, of course, dearest to my heart. Of course, Starting in the 1940s, I started collecting baseball cards. It's so far back, Gary. Black and white.

[C]

Yeah, no, I know, I know. Black and white. I know.

[B]

And I had them all. And I had them in a huge shoebox. Potato chip can. Huge.

[C]

Yeah. They used to make those huge potato chips.

[B]

I go away to college, mom throws them out.

[C]

Yeah. The classic story.

[B]

I mean, I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it.

[C]

Jackie Robinson, rookie card.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Garrick tyco. Yeah, yeah. 48. 48 Leaf is Jackie's rookie card.

[B]

Is that right?

[C]

Yeah. 1948 Leaf.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

It's so fun to talk to someone like you. And when I talk to the kids that are growing up in the hobby, they don't realize that these were not considered collectibles at that time.

[B]

No. We played games with.

[C]

Yeah, against the wall, close to the wall. Flip.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Yeah, No, I know. I know the history incredibly well. And that's why they're valuable for the Hundreds of thousands or millions that were printed. All you kids ruined them all. So there's only hundreds of copies that are left that are in good shape, and that becomes the classic supply and demand. And then as kids like you grew up, knock on wood became successful. What happens? You want a little piece of your youth.

[B]

Oh, right.

[C]

Nostalgia is incredibly ingrained. And so you want to go back, and all of a sudden you can. I mean, me in my 40s was able to go back and buy the trading cards that I could have never dreamed of owning.

[B]

I mean, I still remember the faces, of course. I mean, not necessarily the names. Stars. Yeah, Just old names like Augie Galland and Luke Apling and people like that. I mean, it just.

[C]

I don't think you can communicate to someone under 30 what baseball meant in America when you were growing up.

[B]

Oh, yeah, it was.

[C]

I mean, the World Series.

[B]

Football was a secondary thing.

[C]

Distant. Yeah. I mean, professional football didn't exist in most. Like. It was just. It wasn't on TV. The 1980. How about this, Maury? The 1982 NBA Finals. 82, right. Game three. I believe I could be wrong on that. Sixers, Lakers was aired on CBS as tape delay.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

That's how not popular the NBA was in 1982. They didn't even air it live.

[B]

I think Brent Musburger did this.

[C]

Of course he did. He was amazing. And so, you know, I think that people don't realize there's an ebb and a flow. You also grew up in a time where the heavyweight champion of the world in boxing was arguably the most famous person on earth.

[B]

No question.

[C]

Right.

[B]

When I was a kid, sure. I was listening to the Lewis fights, of course, Billy Kahn, Joe Louis fights.

[C]

Iconic. I mean, look at the goosebumps I'm getting. That's how much I enjoy that history. I mean, and this is actually the whole punchline of my thesis in business and marketing, attention shifts over time. What is popular, what medium? You just said it was a. I don't think people understand. When Joe Louis fought, the whole country shut down and was by their radio.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

Now UFC mixed Martial arts is more popular than boxing. And it's not happening on the radio, it's happening on streaming service. It's not even happening on television. It's not even happening on network tv.

[B]

It's.

[C]

It's not even happening on cable. It's happening on what is called a streaming service, which sits on top of the Internet. That would have been uncomprehendable when you were a teenager. So that's What I remind these kids now and everybody who's standing outside this studio right now, if they're listening. Do you understand in 50 years how nothing like the iPhone will seem like an archaic rock? And that is what I spend my time strategizing around.

[B]

Do you really think you can see the future?

[C]

No, I don't think I can see the future. What I do think is that I have an incredible passion and grounding in history which allows me to use those pattern recognitions to have a stronger insight of what may be true. And then when you layer on top of that that I refuse to be ideological or overly emotional of how I make my money today, which protects me.

[B]

What do you mean by that?

[C]

Well, I'll explain. The biggest reason people don't adjust to the future is because they don't want the future to happen, because it screws up the way they're making their money now.

[B]

Is that why we have Bitcoin?

[C]

I think we have Bitcoin for many different reasons, but it is why people like Jamie Dimon at Chase crapped on Bitcoin, because bitcoin's dangerous to banks. Got it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Humans, when they have financial interest, when they have emotional interest, will demonize new things that can make the way they make their happiness or money vulnerable. Makes sense. It's human behavior. But in that is the opportunity for the entrepreneur that is agnostic or unemotional of how they got there. I do not put yesterday on a pedestal.

[B]

Yeah, but it's very interesting. You sound so sure of yourself, and yet there are tons of mistakes you made.

[C]

Well, I'm so sure of myself because I know I will make unlimited mistakes. Also, let's. If I may, I apologize. I'm talking about a very narrow thing right now that I've put a lot of work into. My many of my mistakes were because I hadn't swam that pool before.

[B]

For instance, you were an investor in Uber, but not early enough in a.

[C]

Way that would make your head spin. The only human being that I acknowledged in my first book that I ever wrote, besides my family, was the co founder and CEO of Uber, Travis. And yet, mistake number one. There's a great saying. I'm sure you've heard it many times. Scared money doesn't make money. I had bought my first significant apartment in Manhattan weeks before Uber came across my desk. I was not sitting with the kind of liquid that made me feel comfortable. Don't forget, I'm an immigrant. You've always got to have a little bit of cash under the bed, right?

[B]

Right.

[C]

Travis came and said, we'd love for you to invest. The truth is, Travis and Garrett Camp, who actually came up with the idea, they were actually incubating it and somebody else was going to run it. At first I passed because I didn't have the kind of liquid that I felt comfortable making a high risk investment like that at the time, even though I was doing much of that behavior before. And then Travis decided to run the company. This is somebody I unbelievably believed in.

[B]

Did you know him personally?

[C]

I knew him personally cause I was growing up in what was called Web 2.0. We were investing and speaking at conferences together. He had a prior startup that was in the Napster space. So he was a technologist for a long time at that point. And he was ambitious and he was hungry and he was smart and. And yeah, I made a crucial mistake in passing twice in the angel round. And for context for the listeners, if I wrote a $50,000 check like I normally did at that point in my life, it would be worth $540 million today. Yeah, brother, it's a dagger. You know, listen. And by the way, that's a fun one to tell as a story for everyone here. I would tell you the thing that has me happiest in my life, personally and professionally, is my capacity to be comfortable with this incredible truth, which is I will make mistakes daily. Daily morning.

[B]

This is what I've found out over the years. Successful people, very successful people love to talk about their failures.

[C]

I love losing.

[B]

That's terrible. What is that? The next best thing from winning.

[C]

It's it. I like, I'm in love with micro losing because it's the foundation of macro winning. Right. Let me break it down. When I think Uber, it depends on how you want to quantify that. Many would listen and be like, you missed out on a half a billion dollars that you could have. You took two, you know, you took two putts at it. Two short. Two short putts. Maury like to put in golf terms. Cause I know you love it so much. I already knew Travis for years. I was in the circles. I understood it. When I tell you I missed two four foot putts in a row. I'm up one stroke in the Masters on the 18th hole, four feet from the cup and I miss both putts.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I view that as a micro loss because I'll put that into context of. Let's use Rory, who just completed his career Grand Slam. Look, we can speak about Rory choking that Masters.

[B]

In the past, he almost choked.

[C]

It Again, I was paying attention this time, but he didn't. And now he has a career Grand Slam. And now Rory forever will be considered one of the great golfers. Right. I kind of view the same thing with what we're talking about here. Micro losses. Choking at a, at a major in golf is considered a major loss, unless you win other championships, then it becomes part of your lore.

[B]

Well, he has other chances.

[C]

Correct. That's the key for me. I'm going to have plenty of more flubs. I've got plenty. But the reality is I'm going to have enough wins to offset it. And most of all. And here is the whole punchline, my friend. I'm playing the game.

[B]

Yeah, you're in the game.

[C]

I'm in the game. Do you know what I love so much for you personally right now? Why I emphatically said yes to this. I'm so fucking happy for you that you're on the court. No, I mean it. I admire it. I look forward to doing it myself. I look forward to referencing this when I'm of your age to someone else. This, what you're doing right now is, is the actual punchline. Not the Emmys, not the accolades. You know, this.

[B]

I. I never, ever, ever read good or bad notices.

[C]

I get it.

[B]

I'd never it. It. I mean, I'm doing A Current Affair years ago. It got pounded.

[C]

I remember.

[B]

I got pounded from the critics. You know what kind of tabloid trash I remember started the talk show. Do the DNA. This is the worst. This is over the edge. This is not right. You're exploiting people. I tried to defend it. I didn't care. Just didn't care. I knew what I was doing. I knew it was for the best, and that was it. Now I started in talk shows in the 90s. It was the golden age of daytime talk. 12 of us. I remember 12 of us from Oprah and Donahue and Geraldo and me and Jenny Jones, Joan Rivers and Sally Jesse rapping.

[C]

I mean, it was every. I mean, it was everything. It was massive. Massive.

[B]

Ricky Lake went on and on, right on and on. You think this, right now, today, is the golden age of attention? Why?

[C]

Well, I would argue that was the golden age of attention as well. I would say this is the golden age of human beings that do media and creative within social networks is the comp to what you and your contemporaries were doing on daytape television in the 80s and 90s. Attention has always been the golden age. Right. You know, when Walter Cronkite was on at night Right. Almost the entire country watched him.

[B]

20 million a night.

[C]

Just think about that.

[B]

20 million a night.

[C]

When Johnny.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I mean, geez, some of these numbers are mash, right? I remember when Seinfeld's last episode was coming and everyone's like, will it beat mash? And I was running around my. I was a senior in college. I was telling them, and I was calling my dad. I wanted people to know how much I knew about this. I'm like, it has no shot. And everyone's like, why? And I said, cause the Internet. But most people in mainstream media didn't understand how many humans were already on AOL chat boards and on bulletin boards. And there was just no chance that Seinfeld could hit that number because too much of the attention was fragmented to new mediums. But in 1980, when JR got shot by Dallas, there was no Internet.

[B]

You got a good history, Maury, my.

[C]

Brother, when I tell you this is one of the great moments of my career because of how much I admire your career, but it's also what you represent to me, which is your career spanned one of the great half centuries of media history.

[B]

It's true. I'm very aware, I mean, not true that I mastered it, but it was true. I was there.

[C]

You were there, and to your credit, you gave it a real run, my friend.

[B]

Wow, thanks.

[C]

You gave it a real run. And so. But what that actually means is you represent something that I've always grown up enjoying, which is spending time with people who lived it. The reason I have such a good history is even in my teenage years, I would sit down with a 50, 60, 70 year old stranger and ask them questions. Where were you when JFK got us out? McCarthy. What was he actually doing? World War II. When you're reading the paper, what did they say was going on in Germany? And I would just listen and listen and listen.

[B]

Curiosity is amazing. It's the skill in this business, in television. For instance, in my first job, I had this guy who, I mean, he basically was my patron. He was my patron. He was, he was the general manager of a local television station in Washington where I first worked in the 60s. And I, I was so fascinated with television. Not just doing it, but all aspects of television. And so I said, I, I want to learn about it. He says, my door is open. You can come in here.

[C]

What's his name?

[B]

His name was Bob Bennett.

[C]

Bob Bennett.

[B]

He was unbelievable. I mean, he lived until he was in his 90s. And, and I'm telling you, he. And he would, by the Way later on, when I was bouncing around, getting fired, and he was the guy that I used as my reference. He was the guy that the next station owner would call and say, should we hire this guy? I mean, he's been bounced around in a couple of cities already. And he would always stand up for me, but he allowed me. I watched all the sales meetings. I watched him talking to the president of then Metromedia, which became Fox, all the time. And he was arguing with him about the business. Should we put this show on? Should we not put this show on? What are we going to charge for this show? What are we going to do? And I learned more about the television business listening to him and just asking him questions than I did at any time in my life. And later on, when I was doing A Current Affair, I was the only talent that could go with the salespeople to the various general managers and sell the show because I had a good background of the business. Talent never gets the background of the entire business. They just do their thing.

[C]

I know, I know. It's incredible. Maury, actually, you just inspired me. If I may just twist it around and ask you a question, Growing up in that era, which on air talents, either in radio or television, looking back now or at the time, did you really admire their interviewing skills? Who do you think really had it like that? You were just like, wow, she or he. They really command it. They're leading the guests properly. They're setting up the guest. Who are some of the. You know, I love giving flowers.

[B]

Right.

[C]

You know, that's why I asked you for Bob's name, I think. You know, I just like the idea of maybe Bob Bennett's family.

[B]

Hearing M. Bennett. He was unbelievable. I mean, I wouldn't have had a future without him. I mean, I had been dead in the water in a couple of places that I worked.

[C]

I love it.

[B]

I would say, first of all, I go all the way back. Edward R. Murrow legend, the McCarthy hearings, it's everything, that whole era.

[C]

I don't think people understand how profound that era was. You know, I was born in the Soviet Union.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

So I especially was interested in what was going on with communism and capitalism and all those stories. So I know that.

[B]

I mean, he was the first person who stood up. Yeah.

[C]

He changed the course of history.

[B]

Right. And, you know, and what's going on today, I don't know. First of all, I don't think a single person can change it.

[C]

No, not the same way. The media landscape's different because of media. That's Right. Because it's fragmented.

[B]

So if everybody. If half the country, at least half the country, believes that the news is fake, then it is. Is that right?

[C]

Sure. That's how life works. How you see it is how it is. It's why I push so much optimism. My biggest theory. I was at an event last night with a bunch of kids who were building future AI companies.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

And this young lady came up to me and she said, gary, you're such a light of positivity. Like, what do we do in this time where me and my friends, all we get is negativity in mainstream media and even in our news feed. In our feeds and social media. And I looked at this young lady and I said, you are the news feed. You are the algorithm. I said, if you go home right now and you type into Instagram and Facebook and TikTok, positivity, good, happiness, optimism. And you search that in the search bar, and then the videos pop up and you like them all, and you leave comments on them all. The next day when you wake up, the videos that are gonna be in your feed are going to be positive in life. Maury, one thing I've definitely learned, and I think this will resonate with you. Cause you've had some spins around the sun. I believe that humans find what they're looking for.

[B]

Yeah, I think so.

[C]

If you're looking for positivity, you can find it. Unfortunately, right now, the politicians, modern parenting. We're in an incredible era where fear has a lot of momentum and fear is having its moment. But I know something that history has taught me, which is fear never wins in the end.

[B]

No. Here, I want to talk to you about these, please. Day trading. Attention. Really?

[C]

Yeah. The media landscape you grew up in, the speed in which it was innovating, radio, then television, print, direct mail. Things were happening in decades.

[B]

It's true.

[C]

I'm aware. Things are happening in hours here now. So back to. It's so fun to hear your context that I did not know about you, your sales. You lived it. You watched how brands integrated into television. First it was product placement, or it was named by a ge. Had Ronald Reagan on tv, Right. Kraft, all that. Then we got into commercials. It changed. The content was the content. We'd had breaks. Then the advertising would happen. That took decades. Now, within the phone, within these social networks, the way that the algorithm works on Facebook today is different than a week ago. Than a week ago. Let me give you a for instance. If you're trying to promote this podcast and the team outside is Trying to get more people to listen. If they post a picture on Instagram today of me and you.

[B]

Right?

[C]

That might.

[B]

Or first of all, you got 400.

[C]

I get it, I get it. But I'm just saying algorithmically, you post it on your account and a certain amount of people will see it, not your followers. The way it now works, anybody can see it if they post a 1 second video of you and I instead of the picture. And a one second video in theory is a picture. It's one second. It's just looping. That piece of content will reach 300,000 people instead of 30,000 people. That strategy of understanding how it works that requires day trading, like behavior, not mutual fund buying behavior.

[B]

So you've taken day trading and applied it to everything.

[C]

To media, to creative and to advertising, to both sides of the business that you understood. You understood a show had to put on and you understood that Procter and Gamble wanted to get in there somehow, whether product placement or whether TV commercial. I've applied what happened on Wall street where people became day traders when the Internet showed up. Versus let's plan for a week. We're gonna buy, you know, BMW stock and you might think about it for a week or you're gonna buy GE to hold forever. Right?

[B]

Sure.

[C]

You know how that's. Everyone grew up. I'm saying in media, it's no longer let's spend nine months to come up with the commercial and then run it. It's every day we have to be remarkable at making pictures and videos and running media dollars through the pipes of the social networks that now dominate society's attention.

[B]

And so where do we get this? Meet me in the middle. This is children's book. Come on, Gary.

[C]

Really, Maury, I am trying to reach all 8 billion people on Earth. That is the agenda. And I don't know if you know this, but I got a little bit of a Jersey potty mouth. And I'm not going to be the guy that an 8 year old child is gonna resonate with. Cause she or he may not even see me. Cause they won't have social media until they're 14 veefriends. These little characters, right? These are the trading cards. This is my Pokemon, this is my Marvel. I am going into the chapter of my career, Maury, where I want to be Walt Disney. I want to be Walt Disney. I want to be Stan Lee. I want to be Jim Henson.

[B]

So therefore you're going to be an animator.

[C]

Therefore I'm going to create characters you can do.

[B]

I've just Learned this. You can do animation now for, like, 1 50th of what it used to cost.

[C]

AI, brother. AI. You cannot comprehend where artificial intelligence is taking us in a media landscape. It's profound. You will be making content 100 years from now. I'm being dead serious. Your image, your name, image and likeness.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Your family. It depends on how you decide to navigate this. You have the rights, but many of us, you and I included as public figures, will leave our name, image, and likeness to our families. And with artificial intelligence, and for guys like you and I who've put out so much public information, the LLM will be able to take everything you've ever said publicly.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[C]

Stick with me. I'm not done yet.

[B]

Oh, God.

[C]

You will put it into a large language model, and on the other side, it will spit out 25 years after you and I are no longer on Earth. It will spit out us talking with the logic of our lives deployed against current events.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

You may be doing current affairs in 200 years.

[B]

I'm getting scared. I'm getting really scared. But let me ask you. You've been talking a lot right here, and I'm glad you did. Okay? Do you ever say at the end of the day, God, I'm so tired of talking?

[C]

Yes, I do, brother.

[B]

I'm just so tired.

[C]

I fall asleep so fast and hard, and I sleep like a baby. Because you're right. I leave it all on the field. I am putting out a lot of energy emotionally, verbally.

[B]

You don't feel overwhelmed?

[C]

No, I feel grateful.

[B]

Ah.

[C]

I do. I feel grateful. I was God given.

[B]

And your parents, what do they think of your success?

[C]

They're immigrants that came to America with $100. What do you think? I lived in a studio apartment in Queens the size of this room, with seven family members for the first two years we were in America. What do you think? They think it's everything to them. And honestly, it makes me emotional even sitting here. It's everything to me. Making my parents proud is the framework of my life. This goes back to why I'm so grateful. My father is a Soviet father. He was. I mean, my father was born in 1953.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[C]

In Belarus. Right there, we're talking five, seven, eight years.

[B]

Stalin dies.

[C]

Or right before Stalin died. My dad remembers when Stalin died. My dad is born in Belarus, don't forget. Very close to Germany. We're not in Siberia. We're talking about eight years removed from everyone in the village getting murdered by Nazi Germany invasion. He's in the backdrop of Stalinism, which was worse for Russian Jews than even Hitler. He's born into a mother. I knew my grandma very well. She stayed with us all summer. My whole childhood. My grandma, I knew every. I mean, I lived. My grandma lived with us from May to September my entire life till I went to college. She was an incredibly insecure, negative woman. I'm not mad at her because I knew her mother. We immigrated with my great grandma Anya. She lived until I was 17. I knew her very well, and she was super negative. And I'm not even mad at her. I didn't meet her mother, but I have a funny feeling I know what Babushka Anya's mom was like. So my father is cynical. He doesn't trust. He married an angel. And then I was his therapist for 25 years. Not only his partner in a liquor store. And he's a very different version of himself. And I'm so proud of him. Changing is hard for all of us. But my father wasn't distant. He wasn't even there. My father slept in the same house as I did every night of the first 14 years of my life. They took no vacations.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

I didn't sleep anywhere else. No sleepovers. Immigrants don't do that. He and I slept under the same roof for the first 14 years of my life. Maury. I don't know if I have 20 memories of my father pre 14. He woke up before I woke up. He got home after I got home. And he worked 363 days a year that way. There was two days off, Christmas and New Year's. And he slept the entire day. When I tell you on Christmas Day, my father. We're Jewish, so it was Hanukkah for us. But on Christmas Day, my father slept until 7pm Right?

[B]

He was at home.

[C]

Fucking guy. Worked 150 hours a week for the entire year up to that moment. Would eat dinner, go back to sleep, go back to the store. The next morning, New Year's, he'd wake up a little more. Cause he got sleep a week earlier. But here's to my dad's credit. My dad was distant, didn't talk. The first time. I tell this story a lot. The first time I ever went to my dad's store to work. We lived 45 minutes away from the store.

[B]

Oh, that's.

[C]

My dad moved out to West Jersey. He wanted farmland like the old country. The store was in Springfield, New Jersey, 45 minutes away. I get in the car, we drive 45 minutes on Route 78 in New Jersey to the store. My father does not say a single word. My father was not very. Is now more. But at that point in his life he was incredibly non verbal in the scheme of things. Kept to himself, very introverted. And when he did talk it was negative. But. And this is where I'm going with this long story, he did say he loved me and that was fucking huge.

[B]

You know, it was in my family. It was just automatic. You knew it. He didn't have to say it.

[C]

Well, that's right. There was something. It's not like my dad said, my mom said it 43 times a day, but my dad would say it and it means something. And by the way, I would argue one of the more interesting things to look in society right now is I would argue many fathers have overcorrected in the other direction. You know, I think a lot of dads could take a.

[B]

Like you get a trophy even if you lose.

[C]

My brother. You know you're talking about my favorite subject, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Do you know that I believe 8th place trophies has caused incredible harm. I'm now going serious on something that seems silly. I believe 8th place trophies have led to incredible self esteem issues, anxiety and I would argue, and this is tough territory to go into, I would say teaching human beings indifference, which is what an eighth place trophy does.

[B]

Yeah, in a way. Yeah.

[C]

Is the seed that leads to very dark depression and even suicidal thoughts.

[B]

What?

[C]

Let me, let me play you the path. If nothing matters, if it doesn't matter. If you look at the psychosis, once nothing matters, you start going down a very dark path. Life doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. And then it becomes I do not matter. I would say this to final thought to bring it back a little lighter. I believe a lot of fathers today listening to you and I could actually take a page out of your dad and my dad's playbook. I mean, we don't want what happened in the 40s and 50s where dads were like fucking nowhere to be seen.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But dads need a little more backbone. Dad's teaching boys to be men. Dad's toughening up a boy a little. I believe in that shit.

[B]

Yeah, but you don't want to go too far. No. But you don't want to be that guy on the sideline.

[C]

No, of course not.

[B]

SCREAMING and shouting.

[C]

The problem is we've gone completely the other way. And this, by the way, is why my book is purple. And this is why my kid's book is called Meet me in the Middle. I believe that We've become way too left, way too right, way too blue, way too red. And the reality is all the magic sits in the purple.

[B]

Believe it or not, I think when it comes to politics, independents are going to. They're gonna rule the roost, God willing.

[C]

Because what's happening now is not sustainable. We're tearing each other apart.

[B]

Okay, so now we come to what we call the 19th hole. Okay, I'll give you the opportunity to ask me a question.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

I have no idea what you're gonna ask me. And I'll try to answer. Or not.

[C]

You ready?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What was the most heartbreaking sports moment of your life, preferably that led you to tears? What was the biggest heartbreak you ever had in sports history?

[B]

Okay, there are two of them. Okay, same thing.

[C]

I'm pumped.

[B]

Same thing.

[C]

Please tell me in detail both baseball? Yeah, of course.

[B]

To me.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Okay. My father thought baseball was the greatest sport in the world. And the no good son of a owner of the Washington Senators baseball team moves to Minnesota in 1961.

[C]

And I know where you're going next. The Baltimore Colts.

[B]

The Baltimore Colts.

[C]

I could not comprehend. I was thinking about a Game 6 World Series loss. I had forgotten. I walked right into that. You, your generation of Washington fans had the ultimate Dustin. Could you imagine everybody who's listening to the podcast, Dustin, My camera guy's here. I just have to ask him. I'm breaking the fourth wall. Could you imagine 15 year old me waking up in the morning and the New York jets have announced they're moving to Los Angeles. That's what happened to him. Both his football team.

[B]

What about those people who remember the Dodgers movie?

[C]

That's the one. The Brooklyn Dodgers, that west. It's incredible.

[B]

So then the second one was, forget the Colts, we get a new team in Washington in 1961. My father was responsible for getting an expansion team and they moved 10 years later to Texas.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

So now therefore, and this is the greatest disappointment, was it the Senators?

[C]

Both times.

[B]

Both times. Both times. So that's 1971. My father's favorite sport is from 1971 till after he dies. There's not a team in Washington.

[C]

Right. And then Nationals.

[B]

And then the Nationals come, you know, 2005. And to have my father pass without a team coming back, he was so upset. I mean, you have no idea how he ranted against the commissioner of baseball. How can you not have a baseball team on the nation's capital? How can you not?

[C]

Was he able to like the Orioles or was that sacrilege?

[B]

He covered them, of course. By the way, he was the only person in the stadium who was there when Lou Gehrig announced his retirement and Cal Ripken breaking his record.

[C]

He was in the stadium for both.

[B]

Both.

[C]

That's insane.

[B]

Both.

[C]

That's iconic. Would your dad talk to you about sports a lot?

[B]

Oh, oh, yeah.

[C]

What was, what was his like, what was his go to story or two? He's like, you should have, like, from his childhood, even before he covered it or when he covered it, when he would talk to you and be like, maury, you should have been there. You can't imagine how good X was. Or you won't believe how we all felt when y happened.

[B]

Dempsey Tunney, 1927, Chicago. And he's there with Ernest Hemingway, Damon Runyon.

[C]

It's unbelievable. Oh, my God.

[B]

Grant and Rice. And he's scared because he's 19 20s, 22 years old.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

I'll tell you one of his great lines. The Washington Redskins were the last all white football team.

[C]

I'm aware.

[B]

A racist.

[C]

I'm aware.

[B]

George Preston Marshall. And my father would just rail on him, unmerciful with him in the papers. In the papers. He would write things like this. The Washington Redskins came on the field in their colors, burgundy, gold and Caucasian.

[C]

He would write that, right? Jesus.

[B]

And then he would write, also, Jim Brown integrated the Redskins end zone five times today. Wow. That's. Was. That's him. Did he put the knife in? And you wouldn't know it until you read it.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

So that's it. Okay. Anything else?

[C]

My go to question. I want to ask you the biggest moments, you know, for, you know, someone my age, 9, 11 was just, you know, those moments in history that take every piece of oxygen out of your body.

[B]

Absolutely.

[C]

When was the first time you were rocked to your core by a world news event?

[B]

I can. I can see this today. It's 1945. My mother has tears in her eyes. The first time I've ever seen my mother cry at the Death of H. FDR.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That day.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

In 1945.

[C]

Yeah. He was such a. He was everything to us for everybody. Of course. He was everything.

[B]

Especially immigrants, especially getting us through the depression.

[C]

I mean, I mean, it's just. It's everything. So that was the one that was. You remember?

[B]

Oh, my God. I still do. I mean, at 6.

[C]

And then after that, Kennedy.

[B]

Well, I was there with Kennedy. Meaning in terms of. I was at Andrews Air Force Base covering as a radio reporter. Jackie Kennedy coming off that plane in that bloodied pink suit when they Flew back. Yes.

[C]

No, you were not.

[B]

Yes, I was.

[C]

You were physically there covering it at.

[B]

Andrews Air Force Base.

[C]

You watched.

[B]

Covered the whole four days of. Sure. Of course, that was my first.

[C]

What world event or US Event do you think has kind of gotten lost a little bit in history?

[B]

I'll tell you which one, please. Because I was there.

[C]

That's why I'm asking.

[B]

And you will. And you will understand this. The fall of the Berlin Wall.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was there covering it for A Current Affair.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That was the biggest moment ever. Ever.

[C]

I mean, especially. You're right. Especially for me.

[B]

Because for anybody who grew up in the second half of the 20th century, it was.

[C]

I mean, look at the goosebumps I'm getting. I don't. You're absolutely right. I don't think people understand.

[B]

Your parents must have.

[C]

Oh, Maury. It was the biggest event in my household for a month. It was inconceivable. It was inconceivable the Berlin Wall would ever come down. And then, you know, moments later, the Soviet Union falls. That was even. I mean, obviously we're from there. That was. That would be. For everybody who's listening. That would be like, tomorrow you wake up and North Korea has had a coup and it's a democracy, and you can now fly next month or this summer to North Korea to check it out. That's the comp for everybody who's like, what are these guys talking about? I don't get it. There it is. You wake up tomorrow and all over social media, North Korea has fallen. There's been an assassination of the dictator, and we're free. South Korea has come in, The US has come in. EU has come in. And good news. This summer, North Korea would like to welcome everybody from around the world that's not been able to see our beautiful place. And you are literally planning a trip with United Airlines to go to North Korea and check it out.

[A]

Thank you, everyone, for listening to this episode of the GaryVee audio experience. Be sure to tune in on Sunday for an allnew Micro V. We will see you soon.