Marketing, Patience and Building Brand in 2025 | Do This Not That

Summary

Podcast Summary: Marketing, Patience and Building Brand in 2025 | Do This Not That

The GaryVee Audio Experience – September 22, 2025
Host: Gary Vaynerchuk
Guest: Event Marketing Entrepreneur ("Jay")

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the evolving landscape of marketing, with a focus on the rising importance of brand-building over pure sales attribution, the shift from “social media” to “interest media,” and practical strategies for creators and marketers to adapt in 2025. Gary Vaynerchuk offers no-nonsense, actionable advice, highlighting the pitfalls of traditional approaches, the power of authenticity, and how to bridge brand and sales for business growth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Biggest Mistake in Modern Marketing: Amplifying Weak Content

[01:29–03:27]

• Problem: The guest admits to “boosting” poor-performing event ads with paid spend just to juice numbers or save face.

• Gary’s Take: Amplifying content that failed to perform organically is “the single worst thing on earth” in marketing.

  “You are literally taking money and throwing it into a garbage and then lighting a match and burning it to the ground.”
  – Gary Vaynerchuk [02:24]

• Insight: Recognizing and changing this behavior is foundational.

2. The “Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook” Philosophy

[03:27–05:02]

• Clarified: Gary emphasizes true giving (“jabs”) must be about value, with “right hooks” (asks) only following authentic contribution.

• Key Nuance: You aren’t entitled to conversions just because you’ve delivered value.

  “The entitlement that just because you’ve given a bunch of good content, someone’s gonna buy your…anything…is audacious and manipulative.”
  – Gary Vaynerchuk [04:13]

3. Turning Winning Content into Conversions

[05:17–08:24]

• Challenge: The guest wonders how to convert high-performing “jab” (value-based) content, which doesn’t have immediate calls to action.

• Gary’s Solution: Sample your own “hits” (successful content). Take a winning piece, re-edit it with added personality and a call to action, and amplify that version.

  “You’re sampling your own hit…You’re taking a jab and converting it into a right hook using my old terminology.”
  – Gary Vaynerchuk [07:55]

• Practical Tip: Add your face/commentary to the video, signal the offer, and naturally segue to the ask.

• Result: You maintain what made the content appealing while adding conversion potential.

4. Brand vs. Sales – The Attribution Myth

[08:24–10:48]

• Critique of “Last Touch” Attribution: Assigning sales success to the last step (like an email or Google ad) ignores all brand-building that led up to it.

• Gary’s Insight: Sales tactics are often over-credited because they’re measurable, but true demand comes from brand affinity built over time.

  “Nobody’s buying a Labubu right now and sticking it on their purse because they got cookied. They’re buying it because of brand…the psychology of brand.”
  – Gary Vaynerchuk [10:35]

5. The Overmathification of Marketing

[10:59–12:03]

• Historical View: The pendulum swung too far toward data/attribution (“math”) in marketing, sidelining creative intuition (“art”).

• Gary’s Perspective: Effective marketing blends both math and creativity, adapting in real time to where attention and culture move.

  “We are too in the era of math right now. And the beauty is 50/50.”
  – Gary Vaynerchuk [11:49]

6. Authenticity & the Rise of “Interest Media”

[14:16–15:31]

• Shift: Social platforms prioritize content based on user interest, not follower count.

• Implication: Anyone can build reach if their content is truly authentic to their interests, regardless of starting size.

  “If you love Bon Jovi and you just go fucking ham on Bon Jovi content…the AI is now that I have 800 followers on that third post…a level of opportunity for society, for happiness and commercial success…that people cannot see.”
  – Gary Vaynerchuk [16:15]

• Follower Counts Fade: The role of follower counts is dimming; passion and authenticity dominate.

  “I do believe within a half decade the following count might not even be publicly seen…merit should reign.”
  – Gary Vaynerchuk [17:58]

7. “Best Practices” Are Often Outdated

[18:50–19:31]

• Criticism: By the time “best practices” are mainstream, they may be useless. Strategy is a living, breathing process.
• Gary’s Framework (PACK):
  • Platforms: Where’s the attention?
  • Algorithms: How does the content get prioritized?
  • Culture: Are you plugged into what actually matters to target groups?

8. Pop Culture as the New Strategy

[22:40–24:14]

• Marketing Success: The fastest-growing brands track and move at the speed of culture.

• Prediction: “Brand strategists” are being replaced by “pop culture strategists” – those who are plugged into micro and macro trends across all demographics.

  “Brand strategists are going to get replaced by pop culture strategists…current consumer relevance strategists.”
  – Gary Vaynerchuk [21:55]

9. The Power of Niche & Community

[24:14–25:16]

• Key Point: To win, marketers must understand and respect micro-communities—whether it’s Love Island fans, regional subcultures, or demographic slices.

  “If you don’t know those things right then you don’t know how to market to them.”
  – Gary Vaynerchuk [25:14]

10. Riding Cultural Trends and Micro-Moments

[25:34–28:02]

• Analogy: To capitalize on major trends, you must first play in smaller ones—“catch all the little waves” to eventually surf the big one.

  “How the fuck are you going to catch the big wave if you’re not in the water trying to catch … the little waves?”
  – Gary Vaynerchuk [27:31]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Not Boosting Bad Content:
  “You are literally taking money and throwing it into a garbage and then lighting a match and burning it to the ground.” [02:24]
• On the Jab/Right Hook Philosophy:
  “The concept of give, give, give is brand. And then you’re gonna convert a certain part of that audience.” [04:13]
• On Brand vs. Attribution:
  “Nobody’s buying a Labubu right now … because they got cookied … They’re buying it because of brand … the psychology of brand.” [10:35]
• On Follower Counts and Opportunity:
  “Good news. You missed nothing.” [18:20]
• On Pop Culture Strategy:
  “Brand strategists are going to get replaced by pop culture strategists. Current consumer relevance strategists.” [21:55]
• On the Need for Cultural Immersion:
  “If you don’t know those things … then you don’t know how to market to them.” [25:14]
• On Trend Surfing:
  “If a brand’s scared…‘we don’t want to waste our time jumping on every trend that lasts an hour’—well, what about when it becomes the trend?” [27:47]

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Noteworthy Timestamps

• [01:29] – Guest outlines event marketing challenge: boosting bad content.
• [02:03] – Gary’s blunt response about amplifying losers.
• [04:00] – Explaining “Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook” and the importance of sincere asks.
• [05:35] – Specific consulting advice: remixing hit content with subtle asks.
• [08:24] – Why “last touch” attribution is broken.
• [10:35] – “Psychology of brand” trumps chasing direct sales metrics.
• [14:16] – Social is dead; interest media and algorithmic recommendation reign.
• [16:15] – Opportunity in niche obsession and authentic content.
• [18:50] – Why “best practices” are generally bad for marketing.
• [21:55] – Emergence of the pop culture strategist.
• [25:14] – Cultural literacy as competitive advantage.
• [27:31] – Trend surfing analogy explained.

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Conclusion

Gary Vaynerchuk’s unfiltered commentary in this episode serves as both a wake-up call and a practical playbook for modern marketers. Key takeaways include abandoning the amplification of weak content, leveraging what works organically with smarter editing, understanding the deep divide between sales and brand, and getting hyper-attuned to cultural and subcultural movements. The future is less about vanity metrics and formulas — more about cultural fluency, authentic interest, and dynamically remixing what works.

**For marketers, entrepreneurs, and content creators aiming to succeed in 2025 and beyond, “do this, not that” means:

• Prioritize authenticity
• Study and engage with culture
• Remix successful content thoughtfully
• Let brand-building lead the way
• Ride small trends to catch big waves.**

Transcript

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Podcast nation. Before I get you into today's podcast, big announcement. As you probably heard at this point, because I had John from Stan on the show, I am an investor advisor to an incredible startup called Stan. Stan Store. I'm sending you right now to GaryVee.com GaryVee.com Stan, go check this out. We've done a GaryVee Stan store challenge, which actually has a weekly call with me.

This is built for everyone who's been.

Affected, honestly by my overall content. The tech stack, all these features, and the minimal costs per month that Stan Store has built is really the tool that was needed for this world that I envisioned when I wrote Crush it, when I wrote Crushing It. And this overall thing I'm thinking a lot about lately, which is the individual empire, right? This creator entrepreneur slash entrepreneur creator economy that I think is gonna eat up the oxygen. Very honestly, the. The thing that so many of you want in your life and the reason so many of you are not there yet, is you've got the strategy for me. You've got the ambition within yourself, but you don't have the tools for you to fully maximize it. And I believe you can find that at Stan Store. Stan Store. But specifically, I want you to sign up for it through my challenge because I want to get access with you. And plus, there's a bunch of cool things. So if you want to go see those cool things, go to garyvee.com Stan S T A N Now to the podcast.

This is the GaryVee audio experience.

[Podcast Guest]

I have this events business. We put on events, and we're doing something stupid. Okay? So what we do is we'll go out there and we'll put ads on social media, on Instagram, or content on social media, Instagram, LinkedIn, whatever, and the ones that are trying to get people to register and stuff. And mostly when they're not doing well, what we do is we put ad dollars, we amplify, we boost them with ad dollars to try to open almost hide. This crappy creative that we've made is amplification of paid ads on social media. Epically stupid.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So, first of all, the fact that you asked that question in the way that you asked that question, I wish you could. I wish you actually did put a USB in me and see what was going on with my chemicals, because my heart smiled so hard, because I've been very loudly and effectively, but not directly enough. This is something I've literally thought about this summer, which is this fall, I need to make black and white direct content that the single stupidest thing in the world of marketing and business and pop culture is amplifying content that clearly did not do well because it didn't do well organically, because A, you're trying to convert something like ticket sales, or B, because you're so deeply insecure and you don't want something that has 800 views, and so you want 40,000 views because you are literally taking money and throwing it into a garbage and then lighting a match and burning it to the ground. So, yes, you are doing the single worst thing on earth, comma, the fact that you now know it, whether you saw a clip or you read it in a book, makes me so happy because I am desperate to be a positive contributor in some way, shape, or form. And it sounds like you are now ready to no longer do that anymore. So kudos to you.

[Podcast Guest]

Well, okay, that makes me feel really good other than the being stupid part, which I agree with and my wife would agree with. But here's the part that. So I read the book, I love the book, and. And here's the part I'm confused by. So one of the things you're really known for and how I got all hooked on, on your content is this idea of jab, jab, jab, right hook. Meaning for people out there who don't know, Gary's really coined this whole thing of where you. You give, you give, you give with your content. It's. You're providing value, providing value, providing value. And then you hit with this hook and say, by the way, why don't you work with me or buy this thing or do whatever?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And the key there is you ask, you don't take. I always like to clarify here. You give, you give, you give, and then you ask. And when they do not deliver on your ask, you do not feel bad or sad or mad at them. Very key nuance to my model that I'm passionate about. Right. Like the entitlement of thinking just because you've given a bunch of good content that someone's gonna buy your sneaker or your wine or your trading card or anything else that other people sell is audacious and manipulative. The concept of give, give, give is brand. And then you're gonna convert a certain part of that audience. So, yes, I'm deeply passionate about that. So.

[Podcast Guest]

So. But a lot of times we were putting content out there, and you have your winners and losers, and in my case, we're amplifying losers because we don't want them to be losers. The problem is, right, the Problem is our jabs are winners. I mean, you know they're winners because they're like value. So the thing. But the value ones, like if I put out a piece of content and it does really well, that one's not asking for anything. So it's not converting to pipeline or sales that fast.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Not black and white. Last attribution. Yes, subconsciously it is. Right, Right. Like that's called brand. One is sales, one is brand. So yes, heard and I know where you're going. Keep going. So there's the question. So now what?

[Podcast Guest]

So now it's so I do I do I amplify the winners that may not be the ones converting to sales or do I amplify?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Let me give you one right off the bat. I love this is more consulting session than podcast because I'm enjoying it and I, I'm so pumped because, like, even in eight seconds, this is gonna crush for you. You ready?

[Podcast Guest]

Yes. I need it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Your clear charisma and sense of humor is one of your biggest attributes. You know that besides your hair, you know that your personality is what you got, right?

[Podcast Guest]

Right? Yes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I can literally.

[Podcast Guest]

All I got. It's all I got.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

We've literally been here for eight minutes and it's as clear to me as the sun will come up tomorrow. Here's what I want you to try, okay? The next time you have a piece of content that does well, that's a jab, right? A high value piece of content, I want you to then take that piece of content back home and post produce it. I want you to take that piece of content and then slightly tweak it. Let me tell you how I would do that. I would have whatever video you have that did well. I want you to then make an edit where you, your face, you, you, me in the bottom left hand corner with a cutout. As long as the bottom left hand corner wasn't critical to the piece of content. I want your little head to be in there while the video's running. This is the edit I want you to make.

[Podcast Guest]

I'm doing it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You're literally. I'm going to reenact it here. Obviously for people that are listening, you won't be able to get this. But follow me, everyone. If you're watching visually, this will be easy. This is literally what you're doing while that video is playing. You're like.

[Podcast Guest]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And then you're pointing up, you're pointing a finger to the audience saying, wait for me, I'm about to jump in. We're all watching this video and then you're gonna go buy some tickets for me for this event.

[Podcast Guest]

That's it. In their face. I love it and it will work.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Here's why. That piece of content already proved that the first three seconds, the fir. The next ten seconds work, right? So, you know you have something that works. Now you've added an extra element of intrigue and of like, what the hell is this dude's head doing in the bottom left hand corner? Then you're going to obviously not do exactly what I said. You'd be like, hey, thanks for watching that. What this is about is our big event on October 19th. There's a link. So you're going to take the original piece of content that did well organically, showed consumer relevance and interest. You're going to DJ it. Why do you think all these EDM guys have the hits they fucking? And what Puff Daddy's career was built on? I know that might not be politically correct these days, but that sampling, these were already fucking hits, right? You're sampling your own hit. And if you see where I'm going.

[Podcast Guest]

I like the analogy of sampling because if I was, I have no music abilities. I couldn't even sing a bar mitzvah. I like the idea of pulling in the winner and just tweaking it a little bit. And that's what I amplified. That's the plan.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You're taking a jab and you're converting it into a right hook using my old terminology. And if you run media against the right kind of target, against creative that has already clearly worked with where you're editing it in a way that didn't disrupt what made it work, you will fucking crush.

[Podcast Guest]

All right, I love that. And you know, you touched on something, and I believe attribution is total garbage. You touched on Last Touch. It's garbage, right?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Because for 20 years, Google got credit for things that other mediums were doing because Google became de facto place you would go. Kudos to Google, great business. But people over invested in search because I would see a. I'm looking at a billboard in Manhattan right now. I would see that and it would be a second. And then I would go to fucking Google and be like, Medical Club 49 or whatever. And then back home at Marketing Land, they're like, oh, Google worked and the billboard does it.

[Podcast Guest]

Yeah, it's total crap. Like, I spend a lot of time in the world. I do a lot of different media, but one of the media is email. And my clients like, oh, these email campaigns are crushing it compared to whatever I go, even though it doesn't help my business, I'm like, no, the email didn't work. It was just the last thing they got, the last stop on the train. You're assigning value to crap.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's because brother, there's a big confusion in our industry about what is sales and what is marketing. Right? Email and Google Adwords are much closer to sales DNA than organic social content, which is much more similar to what worked in the 50s and 60s on television. You had the attention of the consumer on a medium you story told and it affected them. What people don't understand is that sales is what you do when you're not good at branding and marketing. And listen, I love being a salesman. In fact, you may know this since it sounds like you've done a deep dive. Probably the thing I'm most excited about in the world right now is live social shopping. Yeah, that's fucking qvc. That's sales to the umph. I believe in sales and marketing the most. However, I did not buy in the 80s and 90s and 2000s all that Nike stuff because somebody last touch attributed me, somebody cold called me. Nike sent me an email. I bought it because of brand. Nobody's buying a Labubu right now and sticking it on their fucking purse because they got cookied and we followed them around the Internet and we made them, suffocated them to buy a Labubu. They're buying it because of brand because if they put it on their bag they're in the know and they want to feel in the know. That's called the psychology of brand.

[Podcast Guest]

In a lot of ways the, the, the media that's measurable is the, is the most ridiculous meaning. Like it's getting credit for way too much just because it happens to be measurable.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well now you're talking about the, the accommodation of corporate marketing, which is really sad. We've sucked out the creatives and we've implanted the mathematicians, which is fine. I'm a big believer in purple. I'm not red, I'm not blue. I'm not just art, I'm not just math. I actually think the reason math has gained momentum in marketing is because the artists went too far. And like everyone who wasn't good enough to be in Hollywood went to Madison Avenue and used their brand's money to make the commercials that they wanted to make for themselves, not to sell fucking soap. So I understand why we have the era of math. It was actually the artist's fault. However, the problem is we are Too in the era of math right now. And the beauty is 50 50.

[Podcast Guest]

Oh, I, I, I totally agree with that and I love that. And side note, what would be the odds of you ever walking around with a Labubu somewhere attached to your being?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Pretty high if it was a collaboration with Vee Friends and Labubu.

[Podcast Guest]

I should have known that. I didn't know that. That's amazing.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Only, like, I definitely am not usually quote unquote, on trend. Occasionally I'm so me that seven years later it becomes the trend. But I am not trendy. So the high. If Labubu comes calling and says, we'd like to do a Labubu Vee Friends collaboration now that I'm building this marvel Pokemon world and I need to win in things that look like Labubu. But otherwise, you know, it's funny, I, I get, I just did something the other day where they were giving me way too many flowers of like, setting all these, like, being on trend. I was like, I didn't, I didn't set that train. I didn't, I wasn't on trend. Me dressing down and me cursing was just me being me. And then like, the world evolved and it became a little more common in the business world. That's not me setting the trend nor being on trend. That's just I stepped in shit.

[Podcast Guest]

Well, I personally thank you because hopefully I think you actually started the trend. So I went from wearing button downs and frigging khakis. So I don't even own that CR crap anymore. So I owe you. Thank you.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I really, I really am happy for all of us. Like, by the way, this is the weirdest. You want an exclusive? Jay, I literally had weird feelings recently saying I want to wear like a suit and tie proper 1950s for a year, just for the of it, you know, like, just for some fun. But no, it, it is nice that the casualization of society has penetrated the workforce. I do think there's some romance lost in that. You know, I actually understand people who put like, dressing like, back to back to authenticity. Like, it's authentically running through my mind that I might just want to do that for the fun of it when I'm 90. To look back at that era, not for any other reason. I love the people right now that are overly dressed because I'm like, good for you. Like, that's your fucking jam. And in fact, just like tight clothes and baggy clothes. Pendulum swing. I'd be shocked if in 15 years we don't see a big movement. 5 years 9 years, 13 years. A big movement to proper attire coming back because we've all got tired of fucking ball caps and T shirts and baggy shorts as well. So I could see all of it happening.

[Podcast Guest]

Well, I'm doubling down. I go Men's Wearhouse and buying equity in there immediately. You know what you should do, Speaking of this, because it kind of leads into it. You basically have said out there that social media is kind of dead or dying. It's really interest media. So like if you started an account today, zero followers, okay, it was just you wearing suits like on a TikTok account and you posted videos. I'm wearing a suit today. Is the world today because it's now what you call interest media. Is that going to do better than people that have followers of a zillion followers?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It will do better if that human. Are you talking about me? Me Gary Vee or me just like you, Gary Vee?

[Podcast Guest]

If I wore a suit or a random person wore suits, like who gives a crap?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Would me for sure. Because once you have a platform, you have a platform. Hence why brand matters. But. But anyone like literally a 29 year old listening right now who's never made a piece of content, if it's in his, in this scenario, or hers for that matter, soul, this is what's so cool about what's actually happening that I think a lot of people don't see. We throw around authenticity and passion and transparency so much and, and often, unfortunately the people that throw it around a lot of times are like the least authentic.

[Podcast Guest]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But what is very clear to me as someone who I would say is a human anthropologist and really does spend a shocking amount of his time watching, I would say that if it was in my soul that I like passionately care about being dapper and I think there's incredible self esteem value. When I put on a suit and I go into Superman mode versus when I'm Clark, if that's my essence and I can communicate that while I'm building that account. Yes, that person will crush. If I'm doing it because I'm listening to this podcast, I'm like, oh, here's an angle, right? And when you're chasing money, if you're investing in crypto because you think that's where the money is, if you're investing in real estate because you think that's where the money is, if you're cannabis collectibles, social media marketing influencers, AI, if you're chasing because that's where you think the money is, versus quadruple downing on what fucking gets you going. You will be vulnerable when you triple down on what gets you going. You know, my breakout moment in my career was giving a keynote speech in 2008 or nine in the Javits center and I said, if you're a fan of Smurfs, smurf it up. If you love alf, start making content about alf. At the time it was about blogging and doing Twitter. Now this interest media algorithm led social media economy where the attention of full society is overscaled on social. If you love Bon Jovi and you just go fucking ham on Bon Jovi content. The fact that for 15 years of social you would have 80 followers after a year. And now the fact that when I post my third Bon Jovi video, it will find people that have a propensity to give a fuck about Bon Jovi, because that's how deep the AI is now that I have 800 followers on that third post and I'm starting to build my world. That is a level of opportunity for society, for happiness and commercial success. That is a level of nirvana that I think people cannot see in this moment where we've decided to cloud social as bad, not good.

[Podcast Guest]

Well, along those lines, and I couldn't agree with you more that this idea of interest media that forget about your follower count. Follower count is only social proof to decide whether or not, yeah, there's some.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Lingering brand equity on it. I do believe within a half decade the following count might not even be publicly seen. I think it will continue to diminish and importance in this rise of AI interest media algorithms.

[Podcast Guest]

Yeah. And I think that's a good thing.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, I would say. Well, I would say it's a good thing for day one people.

[Podcast Guest]

Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I would say for people like myself who've bled for 15 years to build a fan base, it'd be like email marketing. Okay. Yay. You know, you spent your whole life building a million person email list and now the market says, and Google comes out and says, now with Gmail, everyone has a million. You know, I'm sure the people that work their tails off. But I agree with you, I think merit should reign. You know, and I think I understand what you're saying. And, and from a place of people dwelling that they haven't followed what I've been talking about for 15 years and they missed the boat. Good news. You missed nothing.

[Podcast Guest]

Well, along those lines though, because in marketing there's always this thing, best practices, which it's nails on chalkboard. I literally hate the phrase best practices. I said, by the time it becomes a best practice, it's an anti piece of crap. And the problem is with this idea of interest media instead of social media, if you try to say, what are the best practices? And then you follow them, then you're not going to be playing the interest media game. Isn't. Is that. I mean, do you think best practices. Pretty much, yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Listen, I'm a fan of where you're going, comma. I think of this, like, imposter syndrome. Like, that term drives me crazy because we came up with a new term for the word insecure.

[Podcast Guest]

Yeah, right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

We put makeup on the word insecure. I think best practices is makeup on the real world, which is you need to be strategic at all times. Right. So I get where you're going and I actually am a buyer that once it hits that status in corporations, it's garbage. Often, comma, every. The only reason VaynerMedia is dominating is on a daily basis. All I care about is the essence of what is the best things you can do to maximize relevance and awareness, to create consideration, to create purchase. And. And that I call pack inside of VaynerMedia. Platforms, algorithms and culture. Right. First you need to know which platforms have the attention. What's Spotify vs substack vs snapchat, spotlight vs facebook blue proper in feed vs instagram vs TikTok vs TikTok shop vs TikTok affiliate vs LinkedIn vs LinkedIn. Like, that is truly what I think I've committed my career to and has set me. Slash us apart. Next, algorithms. Within everything I just mentioned and the 30 other things I didn't mention. TikTok, YouTube, Shorts, Twitter. How do the algorithms work? How what creative gets attention? What formats? What are the things that will work? How Important are the 3 seconds versus not a lot of people became obsessed with the first three seconds. They don't realize the 10th second has now become uncomfortably important. Right. Things like that. And then finally, culture. Do you know what's going on with labubu? Do you know what Sydney Sweeney is going through right now with her campaign? Do you know? You know. Do you know what's going on with Aaron Rodgers at the Steelers? Do you understand if Sexy Red and Ice Spice are as hot as they were a year ago or not? Do you understand what's going on with Fortnite and Roblox? Are you aware of what the number one show is on Netflix or are you not. Do you know what's going on with denim? Are you aware that Gap is coming back or you are Not. Do you understand that KITH has become the establishment and things, you know, that are coming up, whether it's mad happy or the nude project, like, do you know shit or don't you? To me, in fact, in our industry, brand strategists are going to get replaced by pop culture strategists. Right? Current consumer relevance strategists. And so that's how I think about that, brother. So whether you call it best practices or best strategies or strategic blueprints or, you know, I call it ironically, I call it day trading attention to some degree, right? Like, to me, I'm trying to understand the framework of pack and I believe that the liquid deaths and the poppies and gaps resurgence and all these things, if you look under the hood, they are the people doing the things I'm talking about and everybody else is not. And that is why we are seeing catastrophic and super stupendous remarketing opportunities. When I say remarketing, I mean not remarketing. I mean market shifts on who the leaders are, who's doing revenue, who's declining in revenue. We're seeing extremes of growth and declines that we have not seen, seen historically in Fortune 5000 land because the game is so complicated now and most people have no fucking clue.

[Podcast Guest]

I couldn't agree more. It's almost like the brands that move at the speed of culture are the ones that really are getting that attention. You know, you can't just try to do all the different tactics. You just ralled off a million different things. Half the people listening and never even heard of kith, let alone know that KITH is now part of the establishment. I mean, that is how in tune you need to be, right? I mean, you need to be in it to be advanced in all of it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The end. I. I would argue that one of the biggest things that's going on at VaynerMedia is as we go into 2026. I keep talking internally with my leaders. First time I'm saying this publicly. I want to give you a scoop. Like there's going to be. Who are going to be the winners of the AI era AORs, right? And all I keep saying internally is like, we're going to be the winner of the AI era AORs. What do you need to do to be a great agency in that era? I would say pop culture strategy is at the tippy top.

[Podcast Guest]

Agreed. That's amazing. Yeah, listen, I watch way too much reality tv, so I'm, I'm in a good place, so I'm excited.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But you are in A good place. It's funny. Nima. Nima who works at Vayner X, director and strategist and creative. You know he was on a reality show. He's deep in the Bravo culture we talk about all the time. When we look at the metrics like understanding what's going on with Love island the last 90 days and understanding how to incorporate it into your ethos. Whether it's product marketing, comms, engagement, even something we call Cassie. Commenting as creative leaving comments as a brand, you know in certain places on the Internet was incredibly fruitful for business results.

[Podcast Guest]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And when I say that what I just rattled off both Love island deep cut Love island knowledge and the concept of Cass C comments as creative leaving comments on Love island the content as a brand when you know not just hahaha but you make a joke that's an inside baseball Love island joke. When I say that as business impact it is not lost on me that 99.9999 of people in Madison Avenue Fortune 5000 land are not fully like either. Don't believe or don't even understand what I'm saying there. This is the great opportunity of the Madison Avenue ecosystem. We are about to reset at a level that people have no comprehension of and the people that are actually into popular culture. And when I say popular culture, by the way, I mean every one of the niches. What do 60 to 80 year old Mexican American grandmas give a fuck about right now? If you don't know those Nutellas and Novellos and all those things. Like if you don't know those things right then you don't know how to market to them.

[Podcast Guest]

Totally. I gotta tell you, I was blown away when I saw where I live that there were Love island watch parties at bars and restaurants in person I was like every marker needs to lock in on this crap. This is not like just some show on Peacock. This is like cultural movement here. It is wild.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

If you knew like I did, which is why I did all those podcasts. This is not where I went with this it for me personally. But if you knew six years ago that comedians skewing, right? We're going to become cultural icons. Sec frat boy like culture. Well and you had a brand to sell to 15 to 35 year old males, you would fucking annihilate.

[Podcast Guest]

Yeah. I mean it's like hawk to a. How the hell is like if you knew that that type of person was going to resonate with America. It's like yeah, that's what you need.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That down A little bit though. That was a viral moment, right? We've seen that before, right? Like double rainbow, the cold play, whatever. Yeah, I'm talking about, you know what's so funny? We just did something that might help a ton of marketers. Me talking about the overall genre of Southern sec, sorority frat comedians, the Theo Vaughn's, the Schultzes, like, like Shane Gillis. I talked about a half decade movement that a brand could really, really lean into. You talked about rightfully so I'm glad you did this about a micro moment of a trend. Many brands that we work with and friends that I have that don't work with me, but I have a lot of relationships in the industry, they get worried that everything is a hot tua thing. Gary, I don't want to follow trends because it's over. I'm like, no, no, a hot to a moment, to your point or whatever other moment becomes the seed of an eight year movement, right? So I'm recapping a six year movement that has happened and you're referencing a viral moment that could have, you know, obviously someone could have jumped in there quickly, done something. But there are two very different things. But unless you play the hawk to a thing and understand the hawk to a thing, you'll never get the long term thing if you're on the sidelines. I don't know how to surf or I'm a surfer, but I feel this could be a good analogy. How the fuck are you going to catch the big wave if you're not in the fucking water trying to catch up, like waiting for it and catching.

[Podcast Guest]

All the little waves 100% and they all kind of tie into each other.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'm sorry, hold on. I got a clip that I need that for my presentation. I like that. That's it right there. If a brand scared because they don't want to. Gary, we don't want to waste our time jumping on every trend that lasts an hour. Well, what about when it becomes the trend.

[Podcast Guest]

And they marry each other?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

They're tied to each other, deeply tied to each other. It's, you know, it's. You gotta eat the amuse bouche and the appetizer and then the main meal and then let's have some dessert and then if it's going well, like some after dinner drinks. But like, you know, like. So like. I don't understand. I do understand actually. It's. We started this podcast this way. The last 70 years of business in marketing land on Madison Avenue. We have used good working media dollars to disguise bad creative, but we couldn't see it because it was predominantly done on television and on billboards and in print. And now we live in an era where we can see it. And, man, does that need an adjustment.

[Podcast Guest]

This has been amazing. Incredible. I'm a bigger fan of you now than even before. Everybody go out there. If you haven't bought already, buy Day trading. Attention. I'm not just saying this because he's here. I'm telling you, this thing breaks down every kind of content format. It is incredible. Book day trading. Attention. Go out there and get it. Gary, you are awesome. Thank you for doing this and appreciate it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I wish you well.