Why Live Streaming has Taken Over 2026

Summary

The GaryVee Audio Experience
Episode: TBPN Interview - DRAFT
Date: July 30, 2026

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Overview

In this lively episode, Gary Vaynerchuk (GaryVee) returns for his third appearance on TBPN, engaging in a spirited and fast-paced conversation with the hosts about the evolving landscape of the creator economy, the power of social platforms, the rise of alternative sports leagues, the enduring value of collectibles, the future of watchable content, and the interplay between technology and culture. This episode is loaded with strategic insights, historical analogies, and Gary’s trademark blend of practical business advice and motivational energy.

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Episode Highlights & Key Discussion Points

1. Conviction and Correct Calls in the Digital Age

• Gary’s legendary predictions: Gary reflects on his well-known early bets on Facebook and Twitter (00:56), noting that conviction comes from observing consumer behavior dispassionately and not letting ego or finances color judgment.
  • Quote: “I don’t let my audacity or my current financial situation or what I would like to happen financially dictate my observations of the consumer.” — Gary (01:15)
• Platform agnosticism: The success wasn’t about picking the specific winning platform, but about understanding that social networks and user-generated content would win (03:35).
• Creator opportunity: The discussion highlights how the democratization of distribution lets anyone build presence and both hosts and Gary celebrate the term “bozo” to describe their approach (“can we bring ‘bozo’ back?” 04:40).

2. Rise of Social-Driven Content and Alternative Media

• Traditional gatekeepers bypassed: Hosts and Gary discuss how TV is now adapting to the reach and influence of social-native creators and streamers (05:34).
  • “TV is now coming to them and saying, hey, could we work something out?” — Host (05:34)
• Niche shows and genres: Explosion of shows addressing specific markets (e.g., car dealers, crypto), with various platforms finally recognizing this opportunity (06:08-06:21).
• Entrepreneurship and media: Gary emphasizes the opportunity for knowledge- and charisma-driven creators to gain influence outside legacy media, underscoring meritocracy (08:26).

3. Longevity in Business: Comparing Athletes and Entrepreneurs

• Business as a long game: Contrasts the finite nature of an athlete’s career with the open-ended potential of entrepreneurship (09:56).
  • “If I was an athlete and I was great, I’d be wrapping it up... and I own a sports agency now. I feel for these kids. They’re 35 and like, ‘what now?’” — Gary (09:56)
• Warren Buffett & Charlie Munger: The hosts note legendary investors’ most productive years were from age 50 to 90, linking business to a lifelong pursuit (11:09-11:25).
• Alternative sports leagues & investing: Gary explains his success investing in new sports leagues (Pickleball, Slam Ball, Wiffle Ball) due to understanding social attention and cultural participation (12:07-12:38).
  • “The reason I invested in Pickle is Pickle highlights even seven years ago, massively over indexed on social.” — Gary (12:33)

4. Cultural Adoption, Watchability & Technology in Sports

• Why some sports ‘cross over’: The group unpacks why sports with high participation (like Pickleball, Soccer) sometimes become spectator phenomena while others don’t, analyzing factors such as watchability, participation, and storytelling (13:26-14:29).
• Tech’s impact on sports: Discussion shifts to technology, automation, and AI’s effect on sport (VAR in soccer, AI in Formula 1) and the perennial need for ‘romance’ and imperfection in competition (18:27-20:26).
  • “If we get all the way to full AI robots and everything’s 100% black and white… the league’s gonna learn that we as humans need a little romance. Need a little gray.” — Gary (19:02)

5. Storytelling, Layering, and Rivalries in Modern Sports

• Making sports sticky: Storytelling and ‘layers’ are essential for engaging audiences—calls for more immersive or behind-the-scenes coverage (e.g., miking up jockeys in horse racing) to drive broader appeal (22:15-22:45).
  • “We want layers, we want stories, we want to get captivated. Everything is about that.” — Gary (22:24)

6. Collectibles and Their Impact on Pop Culture & Business

• Rise of collectibles: Gary is deeply invested (both financially and emotionally) in the rise of collectibles as a cultural and economic force (23:45-25:05).
  • “In 10 years, every Fortune 500 consumable product, apparel, CPG will have a collectibles marketing strategy.” — Gary (24:57)
• Case Study—Pickleball: Live demo on the value of Anna Leigh Waters’ Pickleball cards on eBay (27:14-29:24), illustrating how niche athletic superstars can ignite new collectible markets.
• Collectible culture vs. traditional investing: Young people increasingly prefer buying collectibles over shares of stock or art, seeing them as both investments and cultural capital (31:24).
  • “Collectibles have eaten up the pop culture energy of what young 20 year olds would do with public stocks.” — Gary (31:24)

7. IP Building and Long-Term Vision

• Gary’s IP play: Drops a big reveal about building “the next Disney Pokémon Marvel”—Veefriends—during the AI era, believing this will be his legacy business move (32:55-33:18).
  • “I am building the next Disney Pokémon Marvel all in everyone’s faces. It’s called VeeFriends. Building an IP business during this AI era is going to end up being one of my savviest moves.” — Gary (32:55)
• A generational run: The hosts toast to being at the start of a multi-decade business legacy (33:18-33:24).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You think you two handsome young bozos would have gotten on CNBC?” — Gary (04:10)
• “Back to you guys… what you’re already like, the whole theme of this interview… TBPN for sports with talent like you guys is ESPN’s biggest nightmare.” — Gary (07:34)
• “When we get so binary… we all want a little romance. We need a little romance.” — Gary (20:26)
• “I think collectibles have eaten up the pop culture energy of what young 20 year olds would do with public stocks.” — Gary (31:24)
• “I am building the next Disney Pokémon Marvel all in everyone’s faces. It’s called VeeFriends.” — Gary (32:55)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:56 – Gary reflects on his most accurate predictions and approach to observing trends
• 03:35 – Social platform success is about the human element, not picking the brand
• 05:34 – Social creators’ influence draws attention from traditional media
• 09:56 – Longevity and thriving in business compared to finite sports careers
• 12:07 – Gary’s playbook: betting on sports leagues based on social media signals
• 13:26 – What makes a sport watchable & how history and technology interact in media
• 19:02 – Technology in sports: humans crave imperfection and ‘romance’
• 22:15 – Importance of storytelling and immersive experience in sports growth
• 23:45 – Gary’s deep-dive on collectibles and the market’s future
• 27:14–29:24 – Live eBay search for Anna Leigh Waters collectible cards
• 31:24 – Collectibles overtaking stocks and art among younger generations
• 32:55 – Gary lays out his VeeFriends plan as the next pop culture powerhouse

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Tone & Style

The episode is informal, high-energy, and philosophical—typical of GaryVee’s style—with frequent banter, deep dives into strategy, and a mixture of motivational one-liners and hard-won advice. The hosts provide strong chemistry and ask incisive, practical questions, making it equally entertaining and insightful.

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Conclusion

If you want an inside look at how to spot the next big thing—be it in technology, media, sports, or collectibles—GaryVee’s blend of consumer-first thinking, historical context, and relentless optimism offers a roadmap. From how to pivot with changing platforms, to why collectibles are the new stocks, and why sports need both story and spectacle, this episode is packed with actionable wisdom and high-octane discussion.

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Recommended for:
Entrepreneurs, creators, marketers, collectors, or anyone curious about the seismic shifts reshaping culture and business in the 2020s.

Transcript

[A]

This is the GaryVee audio experience.

[B]

You'll love to see it. Well, we have Gary Vaynerchuk, creator of Veefriends, back on the show. Third time. Love catching up with Gary V. We'll go all over the place. Creator, economy, AI, open source building stuff. How you doing, Gary? What's up?

[C]

There he is.

[A]

Men.

[C]

Men.

[B]

Men.

[C]

Men.

[B]

Well, I think it's a meh you're doing. Oh, you're doing. Meh, meh, meh.

[C]

What's happening?

[B]

Okay, I wanna start with. Unless you have something to kick right off with, I wanna start with something like, I've been seeing these videos of you from, like, years and years ago with just these crazy, crazy, accurate calls about the future. What victory lap do you like to take the most? What's the one call when you think back where you're like, damn, I really nailed that one. Social.

[A]

Like, if I'm being honest, like. Like. No, it's like. It's crazy. Too bad I wasn't making the videos back then. Like, just my complete conviction on Facebook and Twitter, completely unearthing and changing the world. Yeah, no, it. It's ironic timing. I met with someone today I haven't talked to, like, 12, 13 years. You know, retired gentleman. I met him early on. He's like. He's like. It's crazy how much you believed in that stuff and how dismissive we all were. But there's, you know, listen, the only. One of the few things I really do well in business is I don't let my audacity or my current financial situation or what I would like to happen financially dictate my observations of the consumer. I don't think I'm smarter than anyone or have a bigger knack. I think you have. Now, let me give some flowers to you boys. You have some of the greatest people on here. Right. You guys have crushed. You've also gotten much better at your actual job interviewing because, you know, I'm a day one with you guys, like, so I just want to give you some flowers. You guys are getting better and better.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All these brilliant people you have. It's not that I know it better, I don't know it better. It's that I'm willing to completely change course of what I think is working for me, or I'm willing to lose all my money. To be historically correct. I'm not talking about things that I want to happen for my financial interest. I'm talking about what consumers are actually doing.

[B]

Do you think you are more bullish?

[C]

Well, and the Other thing is that

[B]

than like the actual platforms, like, because, like, when I look back at some of those calls about, like, the pivot away from the. There's this one where you're like, looking at the newspaper and you're like, nobody's going to use the newspaper. They're just going to get their news online from other people. And it's like a very accurate prediction. But, but, but it's like that distinctly wasn't coming from, like, Mark Zuckerberg in 2008. He was just saying, like, I built this cool website, like, it's fun.

[C]

I'm connecting the world.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was connection. What I, you know, I think that I know when you go read Crush it, the first book I wrote, I wrote in 2008. Also in that time, I am fully predicting. And you guys know this. We've talked off, like, I predict, like, literally. There's parts of the book that talk about what you guys are doing right now.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. No, we're super early in the live streaming too.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And don't forget, we just came out of Friendster and MySpace failing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So my thesis wasn't necessarily. Now, look, I thought Mark was generational because I'd spent some time with him, and I ended up being very right about that. And I thought Twitter was incredibly unique. So I was bullish on those platforms, but I was incredibly agnostic to your point, whether it was called Facebook or Twitter or the many things that failed along the way, Socialcam, Peach, vine, you know, like LinkedIn or YouTube or Twitch or TikTok, it didn't matter. Apps that connected people on top of the Internet, I knew had to win because of the network effect of scale and no gatekeeper in between. You think you two handsome young bozos would have gotten on cnbc? You would have had to wait.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I knew that you could just do it.

[B]

Bozo.

[A]

And then it's like sports.

[B]

We love the term bozo. Underrated. Underrated. It's not. It's like only slightly derogatory, but it's like, not totally. Not a bad.

[C]

I do identify as a bit of a great word.

[B]

Yeah, it's a great word.

[A]

You know, you guys have become very influential and definitely the people watching are very influential. Can we all collectively put our hands in the pot and all bring bozo back? It would be really enjoyable.

[C]

Golden retrievers are kind of bozos.

[B]

No, no, no, no.

[C]

We have talked about golden retriever mode.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, better installation. Jordy, sorry I cut you off.

[C]

Well, yeah, I think. I think what Was interesting about your call is you were bullish on the platforms. But the take wasn't just you should invest in Facebook. It was like you should just put stuff out every single day. And you've been remarkably consistent with that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And it was, it was real for three guys like us that could go from zero notoriety to a lot. And literally the most famous people in the world right now, you know, at least a third of them are either streamers or purely on social. They have no television, they have no, you know, theatrical. They have no other platform.

[C]

Yeah. TV is now coming to them and saying, hey, could we work something out? You clearly have demand for your content. We want to get it on our platform.

[A]

I started a company a couple years ago called Vayner Watt Watt. It's a TV production company and we are bombarded by the distributors for me to get access to the Stephen Bartlett sort of Hormozy's or the Cody Sanchez is or the like, it's all here. And what's crazy is like YouTube, for example. Right. There's 900 genres that should be doing what you're doing right now.

[B]

Yeah, we just talked to some folks who are doing this show for Europe specifically, and there's one that's for car dealers and there's one for crypto and there's a whole bunch of different sort of like. And it's not even like we were the first live streamers, obviously. We just took the.

[C]

Still the funny, you know, the craziest, the craziest thing. No one has done TVPN for the market. Open like you're in New York. Yeah, you're in New York. You start at.

[B]

I know someone that's working on it.

[C]

Yeah, we know a couple people. But the fact that we're 18 months in and no one saw what we're doing. We go live at 11 Pacific, so we're going live at noon. The market has been open and.

[A]

Which is an indication of your laziness. You guys should wake up.

[C]

We do wake up early, but we do a team workout and it's more,

[B]

it's more an indication of our, of our fascination with private markets versus public markets. And, and like longer term, less quarter by quarter, less day by day market moves and more 12 to 18 month fundraising cycles for private technology companies. And so I think that my natural interest is in the private markets and the earlier stage technology. So if I was trying to cover, you know, the day by day in the market, what oil's doing and how that's affecting, you know, GE And Boeing, I would just be a little bit less sharp than if I'm talking about, you know.

[A]

And honestly, that's what, you know, back to crush it. Back to you guys, back to all of this. What you're already like, the whole theme of this interview, the fact that people that are watching that are deeply sports like you. TBPN for sports with talent like you guys is. Is ESPN's biggest nightmare.

[B]

You know, sort of have it right. Isn't Pat.

[A]

Of course, of course.

[C]

I mean, but they have to pay him like 60 million a year.

[A]

And Pat had to be lucky enough of all the serendipity that left led to that. There are 913 Pat McAfee's and I mean, and Pat's incredibly charismatic and talented. You guys are as well. But the long tail of knowledgeable or charismatic individuals is quite long. Now everyone has a different upside. Right. Like, like again, somebody could replicate this exact show.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if they're really just much sharper and more entertaining, they will take market share. That's just how it works.

[C]

Well, the other, the other thing about sports versus business that's interesting is like sports, there's so many people that played sports, whether it's college or professionally, and then they stop being able to play at that level and they're like, well, what's the best thing I should do? I should just talk about the game that I love.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Whereas in business, you don't get to a point where you're better at talking about it necessarily than doing it. There's a lot of people that that could.

[A]

Well said.

[C]

And so.

[A]

And there's another thing. I just turned 50 and like, literally this morning, like, no bullshit, I'm like, am I starting to enter my prime?

[D]

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[B]

profit, that's such a great philosophy. You're just like, I'm having whatever the inverse of a midlife crisis is. That's me.

[A]

You know what's funny?

[C]

Wait. Is the generational run just begin. I love it.

[A]

But man, I really like and it's funny. And I have a funny feeling, especially given the incredible nature of your Audience. I think when that was just delivered a few minutes ago, there's just a lot of people that really understand it because, you know, my whole life and probably many others watching, you wish you were an athlete, but if you were an entrepreneur, you kind of realize at 30, you're like, wait a minute. If I was an athlete and I was great, I'd be kind of wrapping it up or, like, thinking about post. And I own a large sports agency. My brother and I own a very large sports agency now called Vayner Sports. You know, I feel for these kids. This is what they were meant to do. They're 35 years old and they're like, what do I do with my. You know, like, just like, really?

[C]

No, I know. It's. I truly. I feel so blessed to have always been obsessed with business. Like, I never. I never came close. You know, I got very into surfing, but I never like surfing as much as business. And being. Having a love for something that you can do for a lifetime even more. So people say, like, oh, you should play tennis, because you can play it, you know, you know, basically indefinitely. But it's like, well, you can. You can do deals for Truly for life.

[A]

That's a good segue.

[B]

Yeah. This is what we always. We always bring up.

[C]

Segue.

[B]

Sorry. Well, one thing. We always. We always bring up Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger. It's like the greatest. The greatest run of that career happened from like 50 to 90. It's like, that's so long.

[C]

But wasn't it more like 70 to 90 or like 80 was.

[A]

It was like 60, like. That's right. So segue. You just brought up tennis. I've done incredibly well. I think this is important for a lot of people. Again, I'm always the audience. Alternative sports league investing. I think you guys. I think there's some more fun stuff you guys could be doing about that. It's gone really well for me.

[C]

Yeah. Alexis. We had Alexis on. He has the running league, which is cool. We had the founder of Enhanced Games on.

[B]

There's some article in the Journal today. Is Padel the next pickleball?

[A]

Right. So Pickle was a huge win for me. Right. I bought a team for 500,000 pre Covid. They're trading at 16 million right now in our major league pickleball league. Well, right.

[C]

So do people watch pickleball?

[A]

Yes, that's why. That's why I invest. So I have a little bit of a secret of why I think I'm doing well. Because I'm doing well. With this wiffle ball league that is starting to get some juice. We got some great owners in that. I have one little advantage. It's back to this and we've had some meetings off camera and you guys know I'm like pretty in the weeds with like how communication and marketing works. The reason I invested in Pickle is Pickle highlights even seven years ago, massively over indexed on social.

[B]

Oh, sure, yeah, right.

[C]

Like, yeah, but, but the. But the thing is I do wonder if that's so. So Dana White has the Slap Fighting League, forget what it's called. And that's something that does incredibly well on social. But I don't know anyone, even hardcore MMA fans. It's like, can't wait for the card this weekend. I'm going to watch live.

[A]

But two things. One, ish on incredibly well on social. You have to, you know when, when you. Because I've looked at that as well and a lot of it is driven by the TKO machine much more than, you know, the organic nature of what I'm saying.

[C]

And seeing somebody that's about to get hit in the face is like naturally scroll stopping, even if it's not a good.

[A]

There's also something that people don't realize about sports that matters if you're going to watch it, which is your capacity to participate in it. Yeah, right. Like, like, like people a lot when people try to zing pickleball, they're like, yeah, everyone's playing it, but is it a business? And I always like, literally, those are the articles that were written about tennis and golf 50, 60, 70, 80 years ago. It's like, it's funny. By the way, back to your first question. The other thing I do pretty well that I hope other people do, so I'm saying it out loud is I really use history along with paying attention to people. So, for example, the biggest sports in America in the 20s and 30s were horse racing, boxing and baseball. Those sports were very good on radio. But football is not a great radio sport.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

Football exploded with the television. If you look at the explosion of the football, it came along with television. And so back to streaming what you guys are doing right now. One of the reasons I'm invested in the sailing league, slam ball, you know, picking pickleball, Wiffle ball.

[C]

What's slam ball?

[B]

Slam balls. Trampolines.

[C]

You don't know what, dodgeball and trampoline?

[B]

No, no. Basketball with trampolines. So everyone can dunk and do like bath flips and stuff. It's crazy.

[A]

All right, I gotta, I knew I didn't need. Just like you guys didn't need CNBC to be like, you're the right on your talent. Our all these alternative leagues do not need ESPN or, you know, Fox Sports to say yes, people can see this stuff through these platforms and that's going to continue in an AR VR. Like we're going into an incredible era of opportunity and meritocracy.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Real quick, everybody.

[A]

Hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast. That's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show, but follow the podcast. They'll make my mom super happy.

[C]

What was your reaction to the World Cup? Do you think that flopping will. And flopping culture will, will forever prevent America from actually getting into. Do you think that's a bottleneck to growth?

[A]

Not a bottle. Americans are hypocrites. We love basketball. SGA is the greatest flopper of all time.

[C]

I don't watch enough. I haven't watched enough basketball to, to have even seen SGA flop. But I feel like the, I feel like in Europe they appreciate that, the drama and it's almost like the acting of it all. But then you watch the replay and it's like, you know, Americans that are used to watching, you know, some corn fed linebacker run through a guy and the guy just gets up instantly. You know, it's hard to then go watch somebody flop and completely fake an injury.

[A]

I think that soccer players at this point have this incredible 4 to 7% Academy Award like acting capabilities that probably piss people off. But I agree with you. I'll use football because football is a sport that people hate when they first see it and then they become infatuated with it because it stops and starts. It stops and starts. Especially the world immigrants coming to the US when they're used to soccer, which is flowing, they hate it. And then inevitably within a decade, they love it because you start falling in love with all the little nuances. And I would say for Americans, the nuance of flopping is annoying. Especially with the NBA. It's been a big topic, by the way, So I think especially this season. So I think some of that energy came to it. But look, I mean, I'm a little older than you guys. Everybody who's over 50 knows this. The strides that America has made in its interest in folks football, aka soccer over the last 30 years is profound. FIFA, the video game, had a huge impact. Being able to watch the Premier League in America on Saturday mornings had a huge impact. And, and it's a Great sport. And I already am excited for the next one.

[C]

What about, what about the intersection of technology and a game like soccer? I grew up playing soccer, reffing soccer. I've reft that was like, you know, that was. I would spend my weekends when I was 12, I'd ref like 20 soccer games because they didn't cap it. Like there was no, like you can only work eight hours. It was like you can ref as many games as you want because there was a shortage. So I'd ref like insane number of games in a day. And watching the World cup. And again, I'm a super casual viewer. I hadn't been watching soccer prior to the World cup, but it was fun to kind of catch up on it. Like, you know, there'd be an offside call and, or, or maybe there wasn't a call and then they'd run the tape and they figured out that the guy's hand, you know, elbow was slightly over the line and they'd call it, they'd take the goal back. And that, that to me, like part of, part of the, part of like what makes the sport great is there's just players that can finesse a situation and just be right on that line. So a ref couldn't possibly call it. And then to have a machine being like, you know, no, you can't. You, you, you could beat the ref, but not the machine.

[A]

Look, I think of this like marketing. I'll make this valuable to the audience who does not like sports.

[B]

This is slam ball, by the way.

[C]

I thought those were the Chinese robots first.

[B]

No, these are. Now we're watching slam ball. Best hits. Look at this.

[A]

Yeah, this, look at this.

[C]

Oh, all right, all right. Tell me this is electric. I can get behind this.

[B]

It's so insane.

[C]

Is this made to look like it was shot on vhs? What's going on here? Oh, okay. So it's been around for a while.

[A]

So I'll say I'll answer you like this to make it a little business terms hopefully help some people's marketing. There's a lot of people watching right now that become two one dimensional math performance marketers and they lose. In fact, you boys were one of my favorite executions to watch from afar because you guys played like me. You sell more on brand than on math. You guys were getting brand deals that were completely inappropriate because you sold on value, not on metrics. I think that that's how I think about technology and sports. If we get all the way to full AI robots and everything's 100% black and white. I think the league's gonna learn pretty quickly that we as humans need a little romance. Need a little gray, not black and white, need a little of a balance. And so just like I wish in political terms that everyone was purple instead of this garbage red and blue, we're in with the sports and technology and replay. If they can find purple, I think it's great. When they go too red or too blue, I think it's a problem.

[C]

Yeah. Even in formula. Even in Formula one, there's, you know, the drivers are having issues right now because there's air. Is deciding how much energy, fuel and how much power to. And they're all just getting angry because they're like, am I. Am I losing because I'm not as fast as my opponent? Or is my. Is the AI running on my car just not as dial.

[A]

It's. It's all these analogies. It's like, is dinner fun without the side dish? And. And, you know, the. The amuse bouche and dessert. Like, when we get so binary it. We all want a little romance. We need a little romance.

[C]

Okay. One more potential league. I want you to run. Run this down and let us know next time you're on what you find. But I have a theory that when every car on the road is autonomous that, like, driving on the track is going to have a resurgence in popularity because people are going to be. You know, it's so romantic. It's so romantic. There's so much great history around racing. Every person.

[A]

Everyone I know.

[C]

Yeah. Hit me with the counter.

[A]

But.

[C]

But I have a theory that, like, nat. Like things like net. Like there's something like a slam. Slam ball or whatever it is for driving.

[B]

Demolition derby.

[C]

I was driving yesterday. I was driving a. I was driving a dune buggy. I. I was like, on a trampoline. My buddy. And we were like, we were laughing. It was so much fun. We're driving around quarters.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. It's a more dynamic counter is.

[A]

I don't know if you know this, but we used to ride horses before the cars.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And I don't know if you know there's something called horse racing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That is pretty out there. And so the counter would be that we kind of just lived it with horses and horse racing. But the counter to my counter is what you said, which is. I actually think horse racing could be massive in this country if they put a contemporary for player on it. What UFC showed is like, it was an evolution of boxing with.

[C]

Oh, interesting. Yeah. You want, like, rally horse racing.

[B]

Sort of like UFC meets the Kentucky Derby. Like you can punch the other jockeys

[A]

or what about none of that. And it's more about. What about storytelling? What about.

[B]

Yes, yes. A drive to survive, that type of thing.

[A]

Yeah. Or like, or even when we're watching an actual horse race on a Saturday that's not the Kentucky Derby. Like if you turned it on and the bottom of the screen was actually a mic version of every jockey and you're learning like, we want layers, we want layers, we want stories, we want to get captivated. Everything is about that in every aspect of life.

[B]

With two jockeys getting up in each other's faces and throwing down after.

[A]

You guys are looking violence today.

[C]

Okay, here's a, here's a hard hitting question. Do you think Big Boogie turned it down or was he capping?

[B]

That was a good question.

[C]

Do you think he potentially. Because we were trying to do that. John did the math and he said that if he was going to dental school for a decade and he had a bunch of dependents, it's possible the total package could have been in the $10 million range. But you cover nil stuff a lot more.

[B]

True.

[A]

You'll appreciate this. This is one of the rare moments where I get to do this and I always look for it. So thank you, man. I'm going to clip this. The answer is, I don't know. I've just not paid enough attention. I've been a little bit of a bubble. I'm very in. I'm in a very weird place right now. I've been in a seven to ten week cocoon around the collectibles industry becoming the collecting, becoming the next lifestyle genre.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so like my consumption of anything happening in pop culture is at an all time low the last two months because I've been in the lab, like in the lab on this thesis that I've been on for about eight years that I think is about to completely blow the roofs off of. Like for example, let me give you, for instance, to give you even more color again, always try to think about how to bring value to this smart show. We've started at VaynerMedia a collectibles marketing division just like there started, just like Coca Cola started a sports marketing division when the Olympics were getting important as a driver to consumption. I believe in 10 years every Fortune 500 consumable product, apparel, CPG will have a collectibles marketing strategy. I don't know if you guys saw lines around the door at Popeyes Chicken for the one piece collectible people Flooding to a Dodgers game to get the one piece collectible. I think that in differentiation in an AEO Geo, you know, agentic commerce world, differentiation around collectibles and community to get people to stop their normal pattern of what they're just reordering because they want to buy a deodorant that has a collectible of their favorite. I just see collectibles eating up because of what it means for community and analog and value and investment.

[C]

Yeah. And AI creates like insane. Is going to continue to create insane abundance. Like one example is everyone. Everyone can have a SaaS product now. You can make it.

[A]

Everyone will.

[C]

Everyone will.

[B]

What's the chain?

[A]

Everyone who wants to. Go ahead, brother.

[B]

What's the chain from? People are playing a sport. Is it watchable? Then it becomes a sport with teams professional. You identified some of the translation effects. Like, you know, is anybody going to watch golf? Sure. A lot of people play it. But will people watch it? Obviously the answer was Y. And that was true for football before there was a league and there was TV and the Super Bowl. Right. People were just playing it, by the

[A]

way, just for fun. Because I'm just nerding out.

[B]

Please.

[A]

Like everyone said there would never be a professional football league. That football was always good. College.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

In Notre Dame, the 20s, the 30s, like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like smart people that come on every display. Like those people back in the 40s and 50s. Like there will never be professional football.

[B]

Yes. But at the same time, there are sports that are played by lots of people. I'm thinking of like running. And running is not a massive. There's not the super bowl of running. Even though millions and millions of Americans go jogging and they participate in the sport, there's something special about competitive football that makes it the Super Bowl. Right.

[A]

Super bowl is very special. But like, you know, the New York City Marathon is a very cultural event with good ratings.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I think we're in the era where an entrepreneur watching this show right now is like, fuck it, I'm making a running league. And it might hit.

[B]

Yeah. So then talk to me about the translation layer from there. There's a sport that a lot of people are playing. If it's watchable, it becomes a big national sport with professional teams that we're all watching. At what point does it become. Is there a collectible culture around it? Because we're just in this early stages of like, pickleball has been played by a lot of people. It's now starting to be watched by people. As you mentioned. When will people be collecting Pickleball cards. Yeah.

[A]

Your production team seems really capable based on what I just saw.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Can the production team, before I leave in the next three or four minutes, put up ebay, type in Anna Lee Waters. Lee is L E I G H Anna A N N A space Lee, L E I G H space Waters. Then enter on ebay and then go to completed and sold items and then sorted by most valuable. If the team could do this, this

[C]

is a great challenge for the team.

[B]

Are you just trying to move some Anna Lee Waters merch right now? You're like. And then click purchase and then click check. I'm kidding.

[A]

But she is the star of our team.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

We do repayer sports. She's my. And she was our Joe Namath. She is our Larry Bird. Look at this.

[B]

We go now.

[A]

Hit on the left side. On the left side. Hit. Completed and sold.

[C]

Yeah. Real ebay. Ball knowers. No Dylan on our team. Big collector.

[A]

Nope. No, no. All the way down. I'm very hardcore. I'm very in the dirt on collectible culture. They're completed, Sold.

[D]

This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on marketplace and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for from a browse to a bike ride this summer. Find more on Facebook.

[B]

Where are we going? Hunting around for Annalee Waters.

[A]

Oh, show us this.

[B]

Show us this login. Show us the password.

[C]

So. So Dylan on the. On our team. Already got there.

[B]

There we go.

[C]

And he's seeing. Share Screenshot Anna Lee Waters, rookie autograph cards going for $8,000. 5,000. 5,000.

[A]

We've done a very good job with Anna Lee. We've made her famous. She's on Fallon, she's on McAfee. She's the face of the sport. Ryan Harwood at Vayner Sports deserves a lot of credit. We've crushed with her. She's the best player in the world. Pickleball is the only sport where a female can be the best. She's the best player in the sport, including the men.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Because, you know, that's what's interesting about pickleball. 80 year old grandmas are whipping 19 year old grandsons in pickleball. It's a different kind of sport.

[B]

And there is another sport where women outperform Men, certain equestrian in the Olympics, dressage.

[A]

I'm sure there's others, but this is one that people know. You could see 8 to 5,000. And I will tell you, 99% of the audience and everyone on Twitter right now, hit me up Gary Vee and answer this. 99% of the audience right now has never heard of her in their lives. So it doesn't take a lot to get to collectible because collectibles are niche, are tribals, right? Look what happened with Comic Con. 50 guys in a weird hotel in San Diego, right, in 1976 to now this last weekend. Millions of people going to San Diego. And it's a cultural phenomenon. So collectibles is when it flips over to pop culture. I would argue that athletes that are the most valuable are more pop culture than people realize. They're more superheroes than people realize. And when you're building a league, whether it's Conor McGregor and Ronda Rousey, whether it's Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Steph Curry, today, like you need a superhero. Joe Namath was the superhero for the NFL early on. He became one of the most famous people in the world. The jets had a huge upset in Super Bowl 3 and football was on its way.

[C]

Business collectibles, where do you think it's going? We saw Jensen Jack go for about a million. That was for charity for a friend, Justin Mares, his grants that he does collectibles.

[A]

I believe collectibles have eaten up the pop culture energy of what young 20 year olds would do with public stocks. So instead of buying 50 shares of Nike like my generation did, they're going to go buy a collectible. I think it's completely eating up the oxygen of contemporary art. So you guys, especially after your nice transaction or you know, continue to hang around people of wealth at a young age. Your contemporaries, people in their 30s, 40s, 50s, only 25 years ago, 30 years ago, are buying the hottest contemporary artists to put the art in the house. Much of that money is now going into $100,000 million dollar collectibles. Obviously, Michael Rubin, sitting on the top of the tops empire with all his cultural relevance has brought an incredible amount of pop culture energy to it. And kids, people forget trading cards are 100 years of collectibility. Now this has been a very long term asset class, but the numbers are just out of control. You see o' Leary wearing this, you know this even for you guys that are young, definitely people in my generation, people that collected cards as teenagers in the 80s and 90s, were nerdy people collecting cards are now cool. And once that switch happens, it gets really different really fast, and we're on that other side. And so you'll see. Collect. You know, Watch.

[B]

I want to know what's on your shirt.

[A]

I wasn't even. I was right. There you go. Look at the hell I'm wearing.

[B]

Are you going to the National?

[A]

Of course. Leaving tomorrow. I'm like, let me just make this so I can clip it. In nine years, I am building the next Disney Pokemon marble all in everyone's faces. It's called Be Friends. And because I have 13 different other jobs, no one sees it, and I don't speak about it that often, but building an IP business during this AI era is going to end up being one of my savviest moves.

[C]

Yeah, and the generational run is just beginning.

[B]

I love it.

[C]

Clip that. Clip that in a decade.

[B]

Clip that in five decades. 9900. Thanks so much.

[C]

Great to. Great to catch up.

[B]

Always great.

[A]

Let me know if I can help you.

[B]

We'll talk at the National.

[A]

Goodbye, everybody. If you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention and thanks for being part of this journey. See you later.