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- [00:00]
A
This is the GaryVee audio experience.
- [00:05]
B
Gary, good to see you.
- [00:06]
A
Great to see you.
- [00:07]
B
I have a lot of people that, like, follow on social media, and I don't have the answers, but they're like, how do I become an influencer? And mostly what I've been able to say is, I'm gonna talk to Gary Vee real soon because you don't want. You don't want my advice, but I consume so much of what you put out.
- [00:21]
A
That's very kind.
- [00:22]
B
So if someone had that basic question of how do I start and be an influencer, what would you tell them?
- [00:30]
A
The two things that always stand out for me are passion and knowledge. So let's name it the PK Framework. Right. Like, I think there's only two ways to become someone that people follow. You're so passionate or talented. I think we can add a T in there. Like, you're just so inherently funny and so talented. I think the reason I always go to passion is there's a lot of people that are talented, but if you don't have the passion to get there, the drive, the energy, it's too hard. It's actually too hard right now. Currently, as you probably know, 4 billion people are trying to become famous. I think we can Both agree that 4 billion people have not achieved it. It's actually shockingly easy and shockingly hard to make it right now.
- [01:18]
B
What's the easy part?
- [01:19]
A
The easy part is distribution's been commoditized. There's no gatekeeper. You know, when our grandpappys were growing up, if they wanted to be known, they had to go to Hollywood or New York and someone had to discover them, say, yes. So many people gate kept distribution. The Internet is now distribution. And if you're Sally Pants McGee in Peru right now, and you. You have a smartphone and an Internet connection, you have the ability to start making content that for some whatever reason people give a crap about. And that is a level of meritocracy that I think is intoxicating. So that's changed dramatically.
- [01:57]
B
I feel the same thing with music because I live in Nashville. A lot of new artists or artists that maybe aren't new but haven't hit yet, they're talking about, hey, how do I make it? And it's like, you have every opportunity. Because even 10 years ago.
- [02:11]
A
Correct.
- [02:12]
B
It was. You had to be signed to a record label because you had to have distribution.
- [02:16]
A
That's right.
- [02:16]
B
But now it's universal distribution.
- [02:19]
A
Yes. And the previews were there a long time ago. I don't Know what just happened? But it triggered me to a story. Mike Boyd, who is a very senior executive in my marketing company in the music division, met my brother the first day of College back in 2009, or, excuse me, 2005. And my brother calls me and says, this kid knows everything about music. I said, challenge him. Tell him to tell you a musician right now that eventually will get famous. He told him. Three years later, we're driving to a Jets preseason game, listening to Hot 97, and my brother freaks out and I don't know why. And he's like, oh, my God, Gary, do you remember my freshman year when you said thank you so much to ask Mike Boyd who's gonna pop? It's this person. That person was Soulja Boy. And Mike Boyd found him on MySpace.
- [03:11]
B
Really?
- [03:12]
A
Really. So even back in 056, you know, I think back to young jock Rick Ross, all gold everything, how that song for Trinidad James blew up. You started to see some cracks, but now, to your point, like, TikTok is real discovery. Every A and R is living on there. They want to see it work before they take the risk. It's not going to a bar at two in the morning and being like, Motley Crue is going to make it. And so, yeah, I mean, I tell artists all the time and I have a lot of fun receipts on the Internet. Gonna dochi, sweetie, people that were so early in their careers where I'm like, you have a shot, but this is what you need to do. And it's the answer to your opening question, which is, and this is gonna hurt a lot of people's feelings. Quantity is a secret part of the equation that everybody who has pride does not want to admit is true. There's this inherent conflict between quality and quantity that so many artists and ideological individuals want to uphold. But the truth is, quantity is an incredible ingredient in breaking through. It is really at bats at making the piece of content that changes your life. And I'm a very big believer in it. Now, many people will make 10,000 pieces of shit and never make it. Quality has to be a part of the equation. But you'll appreciate this. Quality is subjective. What is handsome, what is attractive, what is fun? Right? Quantity is not. And while we have this era of social media where you can post something with nine followers and get 4 million views, I hope everyone understands that is out of control. That is a mitzvah. That is a wild phenomenon. And I think many will regret when they look back at their lives, realize they were born during a time of Opportunity and merit that was never pre available. And I actually predict there'll be an era where the glasses or some other medium will come along and change our world. And that the cell phone with the Internet, with social media was an incredible gold rush of opportunity for people that had passion, knowledge or talent. Hopefully a mix of the three. And that's how you become the LeBrons and the Beyonce's. And I think that's where we're at right now, brother.
- [05:35]
B
I think when you say quality, some people will be intimidated by the word going. I don't know if I have quality or if it's good enough. To me, what I would often say is change the word quality for compelling.
- [05:46]
A
Yeah, that's fair.
- [05:47]
B
It doesn't have to be that you're the greatest guitar player or you're the greatest speaker. I don't feel like I am a technically a wonderful speaker, but I can sell at theaters. I can do a national. I do a national radio show. I do the show on Netflix. I'm not a great speaker, but I can say things that people find compelling or I can tell my story that I find compelling. I think that's what quality is to folks. How are you?
- [06:10]
A
How does it resonate? Whether you use the semantics of changing the word quality to compelling, it comes down to self esteem versus insecurity.
- [06:21]
B
What do you mean?
- [06:21]
A
I'm wildly insecure, which is often one of the ways to get to the top. I think about this all the time. It's wild to see extreme and then even high levels of insecurity or confidence get you to a place. I would say that if you tell someone who's scared when Gary said quality, that if they're insecure and you're telling them compelling, they're still like, well, I'm not compelling. They just change the word, you know? My question very simply to start off this podcast immediately is when are you all willing to get the fuck out of high school? When are you ready to not live your life based on some random person's comment or your neighbor thinking it's silly that you're talking about skateboarding even though you're a 48 year old dude? Like, when are you ready to just jump into the pool, kiss the girl, ride the bike without training wheels? Like, when are you ready to be grown and see through something that's in your belly? You feel like you want to be out there. By the way, on the record, I don't think everyone should be out there. I'll tell you something interesting about me. Had it not been a vehicle for my business hopes and dreams. I don't even know if I would be a person that had social media. I don't know if you know this. I'm one of the most prolific content creators of the last 20 years. I share nothing personal. I'm actually wildly, inherently private. You know, I was born in the Soviet Union. I grew up in a household that privacy was high valued. Had this not been about using notoriety and awareness to create opportunity for me professionally and for business purposes, I actually understand why so many people would never attempt to be known. I would have been one of those people. In fact, I never thought I would ever be known. I thought I'd be a business person. The calculus of the world changed. The Internet, YouTube, Twitter kind of really allowed me to see it. I was in the right place mentally and strategically at the right time. But yeah, I mean, I think this is a self esteem insecurity game. To your point, if you have enough insecurity, you use it.
- [08:26]
B
It's a weapon.
- [08:27]
A
It's a weapon. You want to prove everyone wrong. If you have enough, if you got lucky like me, where your circumstances of DNA, where you grew up and ultimately the parents you had, and specifically for me, my mom, mine's like the other side of that pillow. There's like a self. There's such a extreme level of contentness and curiosity and I just feel good. And at some level I feel guilty. I feel like my mom did so right by me that I kind of use Gary Vee to do right by the world. It's almost my homage to my mom now.
- [08:57]
B
You talked about what was easy. No gay Cubert, but what's the hard. You said it can be easy and hard at the same time.
- [09:05]
A
Oh, it's hard because you're competing with the entire fucking world. There's someone prettier posting right now. There's someone smarter, there's someone more compelling with their words. There's someone with more tenacity. There's someone with more grit, there's someone with more opportunity, circumstance, serendipity. This is pure merit.
- [09:23]
B
What do you find about people that succeed in art and that can be music? It could be any kind of influencer. What do you think the through line? Is there
- [09:33]
A
something out of whack?
- [09:35]
B
Yeah, that's what I say.
- [09:36]
A
Screw loose. It's the right string. Yeah, that's right. Now here's where it gets. I think, you know, I feel like we're vibing. I think you're gonna really resonate what I'm about. To say, if those screws are loosened the right way, then you have sustained success. If the screws are too extremely insecure, like, they're just levels. If you're like blisteringly insecure, oftentimes when you get that validation financially, you get the guy, you get the girl, you get the house, you get the fame, it all fucking. That's why we've seen so many people burn. They had the wrong screw loose. And so. But yeah, I think something enigma, something out of. You know, I know I can speak for myself. I got fortunate that I was going through the school system in the 80s where they couldn't have diagnosed all the things they feed pills to kids. For now, I was completely out of control. I didn't pay attention for shit. I was too passionate about my sports cards and my lemonade stand and being social and being friends, and I didn't give a fuck about Saturn or the periodic table.
- [10:41]
B
But that worked out for you and for me in a bit of an outlier type way. Like, I was that kid who got to have Napster and having. And I grew up in the south, where until Napster, you got what was at the stores.
- [10:58]
A
Correct.
- [10:59]
B
And what was at the stores was mostly a little bit of hip hop, a little bit of rock, but mostly country. And I grew up on country music, but I had Napster now.
- [11:07]
A
And so you got so much exposure.
- [11:08]
B
I got everything. And then even with podcasting, I was 21 or 22, and I was one of the youngest to do like a morning show on a major market. And people were like, this kid's so ahead of his time because he's podcasting in 2008. But it was. No, I was just in my 20s.
- [11:23]
A
You just knew.
- [11:24]
B
I was just doing it naturally because of my age, by the way.
- [11:27]
A
And you know what's funny? I am one of those weird ones where I act down, like, just because I'm a consumerist. Meaning, I also was podcasting back then. I didn't have the serendipity of age. I had the obsession of being consumer centric. I demonized nothing. Do you know how many people have become their grandma? You made fun of your grandma back in the day for not having a cell phone or using AOL Instant Messenger. And now you're doing the same thing with AI because you're grown. You're demonizing the new shit, motherfuckers. You became your grandma. Hey, everybody. Hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast. That's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show, but follow the podcast. It'll make my mom super happy. Like, you literally made fun of her 20 years ago for not knowing how to use the new shit. And now you're like, fuck AI. It's like, it's. It's. It's not right.
- [12:19]
B
And I've made the comparison to when streaming was happening. People were screaming at it because, no, this is. We're Discworld. When downloading was happening. AI is now that 100 and now.
- [12:33]
A
To be fair to everyone who's demonizing AI, this one's big.
- [12:38]
B
Didn't they say that about when Napster or Limewire or we can.
- [12:43]
A
That that was a small. That was an industry that was upset about losing its money. This is more like electricity and the Internet itself. This is a. This is a technology that's gonna affect literally every single person. Like, right now as we're filming this, there's six of us in the room. Every one of us. What we do for a living is going to be affected by AI over the next decade. Now, I'm the person that believes if the six of us are good enough, we adjust. We adjust. You know, where was everybody when the search engine was invented and 100,000 yellow pages salesmen got blown out? Where was everybody when Amazon was ravaging through local bookstores? The reason everyone's on tilt right now is I don't know if you saw all the commencement speeches, right?
- [13:32]
B
They booed every person that said AI.
- [13:34]
A
I was so glad I had one. Two years ago, I would have been dead. Now I'm good. Cause I'm improv. I would adjust and be like, yeah, yeah, you're right. Fuck AI. But these people stuck to their script and were getting murdered. People are scared. And I'm empathetic to that. It is never exciting to be like, can I lose my job? How do I pay for my kids, my rent, my debt? I just ask everyone if you stumbled on this podcast and you just happen, you know, you could have been anywhere. You're with us right now, walking the dog, in the gym, in the car. Use AI. Don't fear it. Because if you put your head in the ground, somebody using it is gonna take your job. Not it. And so I just implore everyone to play with it. Cause it's an inevitable. Like, technology laughs at human opinion.
- [14:19]
B
It always has.
- [14:20]
A
It always has. It laughs like, do you know how stupid Metallica looks historically? Like, do you know how bad that receipt for Bill Gates has got his own headaches? But, like, the receipt on him on Letterman. Like, everybody who tries to fight technology's advancements because they're worried about their money always looks silly. So for me, it's kind of like if you love the game, you gotta love the game, not what it does for you. I like, feel like I bring this up a lot. Train's a big Star wars nerd, so I think he knows where I'm going. Cause I use this analogy a lot when Obi Wan's like, willing to die to Darth Vader for the better cause of the Jedi game. That's how I feel as an entrepreneur. If AI was the technology that was going to come along and fuck me up right now and destroy all my businesses, I'm ready. I'm ready to go back to a studio apartment in Queens and rebuild. Because I can't love the game. I can't love capitalism and entrepreneurship and merit and truth and the game only when it benefits me. I have to love it purely. And so I've been really enjoying all these entrepreneurs and capitalists and free market people be exposed for bitches. I love it. I love all these people. Like, it should be merit. It should be merit. But now that AI might come and get them, they're like, wait a minute, where's the reg? Yeah, when you're getting fucked, you're like, where's the regulation? It's like the whole thing with the. It's why the fuck the police thing was never gonna work. It's like, police, police. But then when you're getting fucked, you're like, motherfucker.
- [15:50]
B
Yeah. It's like, no taxes, my house on fire. I need the fire department. Yeah. When it comes. Do you think people that are creating AI have humanity in mind at all? Like the same Altman?
- [16:01]
A
Ish. Ish. I think it's really fun to create villains. I think people need like, I think just how humans are. We want to villainize people. I think a couple things. News alert. Do I think people have self interest? Yes, I do. But do I think people are inherently direct pieces of shit and want death to everyone? I do not. Of course there's some tough people that have come along in history, but I don't think Sam's sitting there and being like, oh, this is awesome. I'm gonna get all the money and everyone's gonna be fucked. First of all, I think the technology's so, I mean, if you really know what's going on.
- [16:36]
B
I don't know what that means to really know. Cause I feel like I kinda know. I don't know If I really know.
- [16:39]
A
Well, if you really know what's going. I appreciate that. If you really know what's going on, I will tell you. Cause I'm fortunate to run in some pretty interesting tech circles. They're all scared of how big it really is. It's kind of a little Frankenstein. It's like this monster is pretty. And if you look, it's not hard to look this up. A lot of the leaders of all these companies do talk about, like, hey, we're trying to figure it out. Like, this is big. Big. And so look, I'll be honest with you. I'm much more concerned about governments than I am about entrepreneurs. Like, everyone's like, oh, Sam Altman. And then when we have like police dogs with missiles on their backpack, AI dogs running around like, let there be no confusion, everyone, like Anthropic and OpenAI and all these companies, they're very powerful. You know what's more powerful? America and China and Russia. Like, I think what we're fearing, the governments. The thing I'm most interested in is what does full scale surveillance and police state look like in society.
- [17:41]
B
Like planners, kind of what it sounds like to me now, like how the government chooses. That's AI and they're in there.
- [17:47]
A
And it's just like. I just think people forget that government. For example, on the jobs thing, let me bounce around a little bit less daunting if we have 30% unemployment. Let me give you the news alert of what's gonna happen. The government's gonna print cash and people are gonna work three days a week. And by the way, news alert, 90% of people are gonna love it. Let me say it again. Remember how much everyone loved Covid. You sat at home playing video games and drinking fucking champagne and the government sending you money in the mail. People loved it. I didn't love it. I fucking hated it. But again, you and I are sitting here for whatever reason, like I think. And by the way, what if extreme capitalism led to a form of socialism? Like, let's call a spade a spade. How many people on earth, let's just use America. How many of the 330 million people would love to. To work three days a week and make the same amount of money because the government's subsidizing it because they're taxing the 10 companies that made all the money? I have a funny feeling a lot. And I have no judgment on that. I wouldn't like that. I want to create, I want to build. It's in my blood. But I don't know, there's some really interesting untold stories that are going to play out here in the next 20 years, and I'm curious. But honestly, real talk, I'm optimistic. I know the last five minutes a lot of people got spooked or worried. I just would not underestimate the human being.
- [19:08]
B
What you're saying now reminds me of the conversation that Elon Musk was having. I've seen him have it in a couple different places where he talks about how in years there will be a living wage. It will be just that. AI will do the jobs, people will be able to stay at home. There's no reason to save for retirement. And he's acting like this is happening in 10 or 20 years. But it is wild to think that we'll call it super capitalism, because my brain could result.
- [19:33]
A
You like that, right? I've been playing with that line. I'm like, wow, what if extreme capitalism triggered a form of socialism? I'm like, that's a brain Fuck. After all, 100 years of debating this, that was the outcome. Yeah, I mean, I never saw that 10 years ago. It looks very, you know, the Plinko board, like, what path are we gonna take? It's definitely one of the paths, especially if you understood how money is made. You know, if you really go very highbrow and very thoughtful. The world is predicated on weaponry, which then allows a country like us to print money in perpetuity based on nothing.
- [20:11]
B
We have more weapons, bigger weapons.
- [20:13]
A
You got it right. Like, it just goes back to third grade. The kid that grew, did you have a friend that, like, was fully his full size by fifth grade? Yeah. Big shout out to Garrett Van Fleet. Garrett Van Fleet, known in our parts of Western Jersey as first to touch net, last to touch backboard, was a monster in sixth grade, has not grown since. We're that monster in sixth grade, like, and so is China right now. And, you know, that kind of keeps the world at bay because everyone's scared. And who would have ever thought that atomic bombs were actually going to lead to peace? That's the most counter take ever. If we're sitting and doing this podcast in 1949. And that's why I actually think this whole AI demonization reminds me a lot of the atomic bomb. It is one of my hypothesis. I don't know if I'm right or not, but I don't think a lot of people in 1950 thought the atomic bomb was going to be the anchor to unprecedented peace.
- [21:10]
B
It's the ultimate checks and balances.
- [21:11]
A
There you go. So what if AI became the ultimate balance to work life balance. Wow.
- [21:18]
B
So would AI within countries, in your mind, could that. Is it a race within countries to have the ultimate AI because then you have the biggest atomic bomb.
- [21:27]
A
Yeah, but I think they get commoditized. You know, you hit a certain level, much like atomic bombs, where it's like, maybe, like, I'm not educated enough. Maybe our atomic bombs slightly better than China's or vice versa. But the punchline is, they're both the fucking atomic bomb. I think AI is going to. You know, everyone's like, which model? I think it's like, big data in my marketing world. Eventually you realize that the IRS and Visa and MasterCard and Walmart, like, everyone had enough data that it kind of got commoditized. I have a funny. And you see it now, right? It's not like I have to predict on this. Like, most of this shit is like, oh, today Nano did this, and tomorrow open. Like, it all feels like there's 13 that are all Hicks Field versus, you know, Runway. Like, it feels like all of them are kind of like one upping each other every fucking week. And they're all just, like, gonna be fucking epic. And like, what a brain fuck. Like, for example, I think I'm gonna launch a music album because of AI I have a lot of things I want to say, and I'd be a great rapper. Big issue. I have no musical talent, but the words I say are very much in that vein, which I think has led to my popularity. And I love hip hop, and I want to make it for myself. And then I just might leak it and sell 40 million albums.
- [22:37]
B
Do you feel okay with the booing at the commencement speech that will happen to you if you make an AI album music?
- [22:45]
A
Yes. Which is why I wouldn't do it until I felt the world felt that that was okay. Like, I want to do it now, but I have a very good feeling. Not only would I get booed, I might even get stabbed, and I prefer not to get stabbed. And very honestly, I'm too empathetic because I love the music genre and I love my. All of those artists. So many friends and so many people I admire. I know it's not the right timing now, and I want to understand what the culture, what humanity feels about it, but the technology's there, and I know it's gonna happen. It's already happened.
- [23:19]
B
If we go less existential.
- [23:21]
A
Yes.
- [23:22]
B
And I got a lot of people from the states that I live in, Tennessee, Arkansas, Iowa, Alabama that are watching this going well, AI doesn't really affect me, but I would love to know how it could affect me positively. How can somebody that has a normal job going in, grinding away, how could they use AI to benefit their lives?
- [23:39]
A
I mean, a lot of ways, I mean, I think, you know, first of all, it's just opportunity. You know, again, it's Internet, it's social media, it's pure opportunity. So I think first you just gotta spend five hours using AI to educate yourself about AI. It's very meta.
- [23:54]
B
So just getting on like, yeah, just like.
- [23:58]
A
And by the way, like, you know, listen, I have offices in Chattanooga, Tennessee. I do a lot of stuff in Minnesota. Like, I'm. I've been very middle America out, even though I'm a Jersey boy my whole life. I don't think this is a middle America versus coastal versus first world country versus third world country. I think this is just mindset. There's unlimited people in middle America that are ready deep into Claude and OpenAI, and there's unlimited people on the coast that are demonizing it. This is just a human binary thing of. Are you an optimist or you a pessimist? Right? And I think if you're an optimist or if you're in the middle, if you're purple, not red or blue on this right now, I hope this is the podcast that just gets you to download it, at least taste it. I'm not even gonna get into harnesses and personal computers and OpenClaw and all the shit I'm already doing and others that are very off the charts doing. I think just using it for information. But when we get into agentic agents eventually, just so everyone knows, in 15 years your AI is gonna be shopping for you, reordering stuff for you. I think the biggest pro for AI. Let me just curveball this because I want everyone to hear this. This is often the singular thing that gets people to look at this technology slightly differently. The biggest pro is what it's doing in medicine. Here's a trade. Let me ask a very simple question. If I told you that this is how life would have worked out if AI was not invented like you're just seven years ago, you won't lose your job. You won't.
- [25:28]
B
I like it.
- [25:29]
A
But your daughter's gonna be diagnosed with a deadly disease that was unable to be found without AI and will pass away at 13 years old. I don't like it. Correct. I just have a funny feeling everyone's gonna trade the job part for the health and well being and the extra decade with their mom and the extra 60 years with their daughter. And I'm incredibly ecstatic about AI medicine. Cause people's lives are about to be saved at an unprecedented level. So I'm very bullish on that. And as far as the job part, where does accountability come in? Right now you're listening to this podcast. You are being told information that you should put in the work of 50 to 100 hours to know how to use AI. And that will help you either create a side hustle or get another job. Now the question is, are you going to do it or are you tired of lazy, non motivated, indifferent and you're not gonna put in that hours. And this is your strategy. And if you're listening at home, I've just crossed my fingers and I'm about to do the whole. I just blew a lot of air in my mouth, big cheeks. Is this your strategy? Cause that is not a strategy when there's a big technology. And people should know that if you're grown, if you're over 40, you watch what the Internet did you watch what social media did you watch what the iPhone did? You should not be delusional to how big of an opportunity and how much of a risk is in play with this new technology.
- [26:48]
B
It scares a lot of people because I think that's what gets the most. It's going to strain the most, those videos being fed the most because more people are commenting on them. The videos of AI doing good do not hit as hard because again, they're not getting the same.
- [27:04]
A
As someone who's been putting out content that is good for the last 20 years, I'm very aware that people peddling negativity and hate do better than me, that are peddling love and optimism. I just don't care.
- [27:15]
B
I guess my point is a lot of people are just seeing all the negatives with AI because those videos do better and they're served more.
- [27:23]
A
And I'm asking people to be fucking adults and do 360 work and be accountable. They're listening to us right now. I'm telling all of you right now, verbatim, that AI is likely the best thing that's ever happened to you. Now what? Now you get to decide if you believe me or if you believe someone else. I would just tell you that. Let me tell you my 20 years of receipts. I've made content for 20 years giving you all the angles of opportunity for yourself. And I've told you the whole time that I cannot help you. You can Help yourself. Now, let me tell you who's peddling all the stuff that's scaring you. You're not capable. I'm gonna scare you and vote for me. Or give me your money and I'll help you. You decide who you wanna listen to. That's some real fucking talk.
- [28:09]
B
Yeah, I agree with you because I've been able to see the advantages of it. I also understand the fears of it, because that's what people are being fed the most. Because that's what's getting the most reaction.
- [28:18]
A
Yes, but at what point is there accountability?
- [28:20]
B
There's not.
- [28:21]
A
Well, listen, I understand we're in the greatest era of pointing fingers and we don't like to point thumbs. I have a problem. You're grown. And you will pay the consequences of your actions. If you literally are not willing to be accountable. If you do not want to put in the work to take advantage of these opportunities, maybe there's an argument that you should lose.
- [28:41]
B
So survival of the fittest a bit.
- [28:44]
A
Listen, I'm a big fan of balance. I am as purple as Back to, like, middle versus coast. Like, you will not find a more purple fucker than me. I am Grimace.
- [28:55]
B
In my head, I had Grimace.
- [28:56]
A
Really nice. I know that some youngsters might think Barney were a little. How old are you?
- [29:02]
B
46.
- [29:02]
A
Man, you look. He looks. You guys are pissed, right? He looks too good. No, really, you look a lot. I didn't realize. So we are grimace. Under 35 year olds probably thought Barney. But I'm very purple, so I'm not one of these, like, fuck it. Like, I believe in, you know, some levels of, you know, government and some levels of. But I think we. I think both sides are so off the reservation right now. Everyone's fluorescent blue radical red for the same reason.
- [29:31]
B
Right? That's what gets shown to us. Oh, yeah.
- [29:34]
A
Bad news, everyone. I'm about to say something that's gonna hurt your feelings. You're all the same. You know that, right?
- [29:38]
B
Yeah.
- [29:38]
A
You're literally actually the same person. You're just on the other side of the coin. But you are on full tilt that you believe someone's gonna save you. How about that shit? You believe someone's gonna save you. They've both tricked you. That this is what's bad and I can help you. And let me break that down to what that makes you. A loser. Sorry. If you think fucking a president or a governor or a mayor is gonna save your life, you're in big trouble. And I feel bad. I'm sad. That's Why I put out so much content. I'm desperate for you to understand you're in control and you're capable.
- [30:18]
B
I found that sensibility is not the most shared. Like, it's the enemy of being entertaining. Therefore, it is not the most shared because it doesn't keep people on social media.
- [30:27]
A
Yeah. I mean, again, I think that's accountability time. Like, this whole idea that. What you're saying right now, I so understand. But just to remind you, pre Internet, pre social media, people chose to turn on CNN or Fox. People chose to read the New York Times or the New York Post. People have made these choices for a long time.
- [30:45]
B
They weren't as polar then.
- [30:47]
A
Well, by the way, again, I don't. I got F's in school, but I got A's and B's in history. Like, the 1960s were super polarized.
- [30:55]
B
I don't know about the 60s.
- [30:56]
A
No, no, you didn't live the 60s, but you're a smart dude.
- [30:58]
B
Well, I.
- [30:59]
A
Like, what are you, like, confused right now? You don't know? Like, help me here. You're confused about the 60s. You don't know anything.
- [31:04]
B
I do know, okay, 60s. And I have talked to people that are older than me and said, hey, what's more divisive? Vietnam, the 60s, or today?
- [31:12]
A
Do you know how humans work? When you're older? You think it's more extreme. It's also recency bias, bro. Everyone was getting shot in the 60s.
- [31:25]
B
Yeah. I mean, we haven't had a kids date for sure.
- [31:28]
A
Not only that, it's all of them. It's mlk, rfk, jfk. People forget that Gerald Ford had multiple assassination attempts on him. Reagan bleeding into the early 80s, Lenin, it was. I mean, you can't even comprehend the racial tension. We still feel it. Think about where we're at with racism and racial tensions today. You understand the insanity that was the 60s, I think. And here's what happened. The 70s and 80s is called fatigue. I'm actually really pumped. I'm gonna put it on wax right now. Cause I'm gonna clip this shit in 15 years. We're starting the earliest process of fatigue right now.
- [32:13]
B
But fatigue could be seen as a positive.
- [32:15]
A
I see it as a positive. It's a reset. I don't think it's like putting our issues under the rug. I think we've battled it out, you know, fighting. I don't know, like, you know, where you grew up. But, like, me and my. In the 80s, in Jersey, at Martin Luther King Elementary School, I learned it early, which is like you hate someone, you fight, and then weirdly, you're like boys. And I feel like in the macro, we've been fighting here for a minute now, and, like, I'm actually. Again, I'm an optimist on this. I believe in human beings. I think we will have a 70s and 80s to this 60s. I think people will be fascinated by the 2000-30s and 2000-40s, and I'm looking forward to seeing it.
- [32:57]
B
Yeah. My question has always been, is this super cyclical?
- [33:00]
A
Like, 100%.
- [33:01]
B
Exactly. Again, which is why I would ask about the late 60s, early 70s in that time period and compare it to now, because it just seems like it's then now, except with better technology.
- [33:12]
A
Yeah. Listen, it'd be naive of me to just say it's exactly the same. There'll be different nuances. Anything can happen. One person can change the course of history. Right? One president, one dictator, one coup d'. Etat. Like, I'm not gonna sit here and say it's exactly the same, but humans do repeat the same things over and over. If you go deep enough in history and like, yeah, I'm optimistic, man. I'll ask you a direct question. And then I'm just looking for the body language of the four behind the camera. I've noticed people that were red hot on politics completely calm down in the last two, three years. Just people get tired of yelling into the wind. You can only tweet so much anger. Like, eventually you're just gonna be lonely. And so, I don't know. I'm really hopeful, and I think there's a lot more understanding. For example, when I opened my Chattanooga, Tennessee office for my agency in 2014 and was looking at Des Moines, Iowa, Louisville, a lot of my employees and my clients were like, why are you doing that? I'm like, well, because, you know, I want to be in the trenches. Cause, you know, America's pretty different in the middle than the coast. And they were like, it is. I was so stunned by the naivete that there was, like, some real cultural divides. Like, just genuinely, literally clients, like executives at big companies being like, eh, it's not that different. I'm like, it's a little more different than you think. I like that we kind of know that it's a little bit different. And I like that. I can see people starting to blend. I just see it. Listen, what I do for a living is watch people at scale on the Internet, look at data, look at behaviors, read qualitative data, read the 4chan and the Reddit, send the Twitter, I just watch. This is what I like to do. It's how I think about business, how I think about life. I'm telling all of you, there's a crack in the anger, and I think it's beautiful, and I'm excited, and I hope it gets super momentum. Anything can change it, but there is a crack in the anger people are tired of. You know, here you are six years later, and you're like, man, I had a best friend for 22 years. We haven't talked in six years. For what? Because we saw the world differently. As if. You know what blows me away? Having the audacity to think every human on earth should see life exactly the way you see it. As if when I first came on the scene, public speaking, I cursed a lot. I've already been cursing here a little bit. When I went to the South, I went to Birmingham, Alabama, and I started doing my Gary Vee thing, and boy, oh, boy. And I remember, like, the host was a little bit, like, was trying to be mean to the crowd, and I stopped him. I said, no, no, this is a crowd that if you got raised by your grandma and were told, like, cursing is the devil, who am I just. Cause I grew up in the streets of Jersey where cursing was every third world. I didn't have the audacity, especially to go into someone else's home. I was in Birmingham. They weren't in New Jersey. And I think that we've forgotten how to respect the home you walk into. We've forgotten. And so if I have to take my shoes off, because that's your house rules, I will take my damn shoes off even if those aren't my house rules. And so courtesy, civility, lost art, that I have a funny feeling is in the early stages of bubbling up in a good way, and I'm seeing that trend.
- [36:39]
B
This has been a very positive last half hour, so I'd like to say thank you for that, because you have a positive feeling about AI. You have a positive feeling about where society is going. And I don't feel like you're just saying it for the effect. I feel like you believe it.
- [36:51]
A
Well, I have the luxury with you of you knowing my content enough that this is not what I've been saying about society for 12 years. Yeah, I do see it. I'm incredibly hopeful that it's true. I'm incredibly. I'm a street kid. I'm not naive that it can turn in a dime. We saw the horrific assassination attempt of Trump. Could you imagine if that bullet lands that changes the paradigm. Anything can happen. That's life. But I would say that I am optimistic. And I will say this to everyone. Here's a good one. I really hope, by the way, if what I'm about to say changes one person, then this is, like, the best use of my time. And thank you for the opportunity. If you're just listening for the last 20 minutes and you can feel like you're tired of fighting, stop fighting. I just think a lot. I think people are tired, bro. Like, how much hate can you deploy in one lifetime? Why? You gotta ask yourself why. I hate no one. I mean, I'm not pumped about a murderer, but my brain goes into, like, damn, whatever happened to that? Childhood really fucking sucks for that poor kid. Obviously, you can't condemn taking another person's life. But I don't default. Like, and then people are, like, wanting to, like, cancel and fight because you see some policy issue there. And by the way, we live in the United States. Move. Do you know how epic the United States is? This whole forefathers thing? They wrote it perfectly. Don't like Texas, go to California. Don't like New York, go to Florida. Don't like, you know. Don't like, you know, Connecticut, go to New Hampshire. Don't like New Hampshire, go to Tennessee. The fact that we have options and don't need. It's not like Europe. We're like, fuck you got. You know? Like, it's pretty cool, right? But stop hating people. What the fuck?
- [38:42]
B
End on, dad gang. We're talking about Free King. Yeah, yeah, tell me. Tell me more about that.
- [38:47]
A
This is a great American story. Like, just three buddies. Entrepreneurs built it. You know, I've had some success with fashion brands, Siegelman Stables. Another Hat Forward brand is Max I just got involved with early on in his career several years ago. And first of all, I just think, like, fatherhood is the coolest. I think a lot of people take a lot of pride in trying to be a good dad. I think we have an incredible rise of good fathering. In fact, I actually think fathering is finding a purple. I don't know if all of you are paying attention to this, but I love that, like, you could be nice, but you could also be like, cry when you lose and fuck 8th place trophies and be a man. And, like, you know, I talked to my son the other day. He's 13, and I finished the sentence with like, I'm not your mom. I'm here to be your dad, bro. Manned him up, embodied them a little bit. And it was awesome. And I just think fatherhood and being a dad is in a nice era right now. I really actually think it's one of the things that are getting to purple the quickest. I think that's gonna be beautiful for a generation of children. So this, this brand, this entrepreneurial venture, me getting involved in has been really fruitful because I love anything that is selfish and selfless. I love like, oh, this could be a good investment. I could make some paper for me and my family while also supporting something that if we make being a dad cool and being a good dad cool, well, that's just good for society. It's similar to beefriends. I don't know if you know what I'm doing with that. That's my Pokemon Marvel. Those are 260 characters. You know, fearless, fairy, ambitious, angel, empathy, elephant, patient, panda, where I get to be a 19. Back to you being 46. Do you remember our cartoons where he man would be he man, and at the end he'd be like, and remember kids, remember boys, be nice to your sister. I go rug and hug my sister because he man told you know, our cartoons had a message. And that's what I'm trying to do with be friends. And that's where I am a little bit in my life now. I get a lot of opportunities, but with this, I was like, seeing the pride. I've watched a lot of people wear this hat. I've talked to some people long before I even knew who was behind him. Like, hey, why do you rock that hat? Literally? And because I'm Gary Vee and I talk about this shit, people like crying. Be like, my dad was terrible. I want to be a good dad to my one year old. Like, really cool, gnarly shit. So I'm really proud of those guys. I'm excited to be involved, rev up the marketing, build a business look. I believe in the American dream more than anybody. I'm a byproduct of it. It is still uncomfortably real, even though people try to tell you it's not. And they're living it.
- [41:23]
B
Well, I appreciate the time. I'm also a kaboom guy because of you.
- [41:26]
A
Really?
- [41:27]
B
Yeah.
- [41:28]
A
Dude, can you guys have me back so we could just talk an hour on collectibles?
- [41:31]
B
Easily.
- [41:32]
A
I believe collectibles is on the pre dawn of joining music, sports and fashion as a lifestyle genre. Everyone's collecting something. Handbags, you know, Labubus, like vintage clothes for the ladies, watches, sneakers. I mean, but it's insane how big kaboom has gotten. If everybody doesn't know what the hell we're talking about. We're talking about an insert in Panini sports cards called Kaboom that have just gone completely ballistic. If you go to ebay right now and type in kaboom card, you'll be blown away. I lost out on a Brunson gold kaboom last week and I'm so angry at myself because I have deep pockets and I shouldn't have been a puss and I should have bid one more time and now I don't know if I'll ever get one. And if he wins a title here, which, please, God, please can we end with back to middle America. Middle America, I'm coming. The Knicks are playing the spurs in San Antonio or the Thunder in Oklahoma City. So I'm excited to see all of you. If you listen to the pot. When are you guys putting this out?
- [42:29]
B
Soon.
- [42:29]
A
Good. If you. If you listen to this pod and you see me in the arena, come and say hi, let's dap it up. Because we're like minded people and got a lot of love for you and so thank you for having me.
- [42:37]
B
Yeah, Gary, I really appreciate it. Big fan. Awesome, Gary. Thanks, man.
- [42:40]
A
That was a lot of fun. Yeah. Everybody, if you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention and thanks for being part of this journey. See you later.