← The GaryVee Audio Experience
The GaryVee Audio Experience
The Future of Attention: Live Shopping, AI & The New Rules of Business | The Burnouts
01:24:39
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- [00:00]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Every social platform. Just like they all have stories, they're going to have live shopping because they're going to have to compete with the reality of the consumer behavior, which is people love buying in live shopping formats. And so if you look at Abercrombie and Fitch, they completely saved their business by doing live shopping on TikTok. Yes, of course, having the biggest K pop star in the world push Levuvu starts a spark. Like that's not enough. You know how big the Chinese e commerce economy is. So I think this has already happened. Like, this is not me predicting. Hey, podcast. Before. Before you go to the podcast, I've got a big announcement. I know several years ago a lot of you bought 12 books of 12 and a half to get the NFT, the book games NFT. I also know that a lot of people have dropped off on their journey with veefriends, which is a massive mistake because what we're doing on Burn island and what we're doing on base with book games is remarkable. So you need to go to vee friends veefriends.com oldbooks go to vfriends.com oldbooks with an S. You will go to that landing page and we will help you explain if you are trying to figure out where your NFTs are, how to bring them over to the website and how to start activating them so that you can start using them for all the incredible exchanges and draws and raffles and experiences that we're doing for people that actually own the book games. So please go to vfriends.comoldbooks where you can start your journey on reactivating your book games. Journey. This is the GaryVee audio experience.
- [01:34]
Phoebe
Do you think we'll see a huge peak in content creators as AI lays off more jobs?
- [01:39]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Listen, I wrote a book in 2009 that basically said everybody was going to content create. And then secondarily now with AI, with AI people, we're going to have more than 8 billion people. We're going to have 800 billion people because 792 billion of them are going to be fake people. So yes, I believe in supply and demand. Like, yes, there will be way more competition. But that's just like the punchline of the way it is.
- [02:07]
Sofia
Well, I was watching your podcast with Cody Sanchez where you were talking about live shopping and whatnot as like an undiscovered kind of idea of the attention economy. So I was really interested in like, what you felt like was areas where young people should be focusing, where there could be a Lot of opportunity.
- [02:23]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah. I mean, I think to that. Let's talk about that point. I think there's a lot of young women. Let's start with women, given this audience. Let's just go down that path who want to be a content creator, want to be a podcaster, want to have a career. Because I've been following content creators and influencers since 2005, I have a lot of historical context. And what I know about that historical context is there's different content creators for different eras. When Instagram first came out, it was first for people to take pictures and there was a picture app. First it was like for photography, and then it started to become a social network, but the only option to post on it was pictures. So who rose very quickly in that early era, models both male and female. Right. And so if you were good at taking photos, sure. This is not lost on any women listening right now. Some people photograph better than others. And so if you were a human that photographed attractively and you understood what was going on in Instagram, there was a whole movement of people who monetized quite a bit. Then video was introduced and it changed the dynamic of that platform. Live Shopping has happened. Right now, Live Shopping is huge. There are probably 5,000 listeners right now of this podcast who aspire to be a creator or influencer. And the destiny has them not winning that game. They're not good enough and they will not make a million dollars a year or 500,000 a year in brand deals and affiliates and all that. However, that same human, that same girl that I'm using the analogy of right now, if she went to Live Shopping because she is a good salesman and has gift of gab and has depth of knowledge and can hold a conversation and enjoys the streaming IRL dynamic of like, not only talking about this Prada product, but she's also naturally good at seeing that Karen said something in the comments and can jump with her and then back to this. She's destined to be a remarkably financially and emotionally successful Live Shopping personality.
- [04:28]
Phoebe
So should we put Live Shopping in the FIA app?
- [04:30]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes.
- [04:30]
Phoebe
You think so?
- [04:31]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I do.
- [04:32]
Phoebe
But if our vision is being like the AI personal shopper, do you think Live Shopping is going to be a key part of that? Because I feel like TikTok is also really hopping on the live shopping.
- [04:41]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Well, TikTok is the foundation of this TikTok ByteDance in Asia. Do you know that in Asia, 30%, by conservative standards, 30% of all E commerce transactions in China are happening on Live Shopping? Do you know how Big the Chinese e commerce economy is. So I think this has already happened. Like, this is not me predicting like TikTok in the US whatnot. And like, by the way, meta's gonna do this and Google's gonna do like every social platform. Just like they all have stories. They're going to have live shopping because they're gonna have to compete with the reality of the consumer behavior, which is people love buying in live shopping formats. And so if you look at Abercrombie and Fitch, they completely saved their business by doing live shopping on TikTok. Right. If you look at Pop Mart, yes, of course, having the biggest K pop star in the world push labubu starts a spark. But when you look at like, that's not enough.
- [05:41]
Phoebe
So we're gonna build out a live shopping.
- [05:45]
Gary Vaynerchuk
But that strategy may lead to you deciding not to put it in the app because it's distracting. It's not on strategy. It's okay if you don't, but I don't think it's okay for you not to debate it when you understand it's a significant human behavior.
- [05:59]
Sofia
Yeah, well, I mean, I think it's interesting because even YouTube shorts has now added the ability to add an affiliate link so that you can monetize on videos that you're putting out. So I think it's just generally the intersection of commerce and also media is becoming more prolific. So if you're talking about a product, why would you not link it into that video so you can also monetize on it?
- [06:19]
Gary Vaynerchuk
The elimination of friction is like always the right answer, right? What you're talking about correctly is like, why did people, like, see like, oh, I love your. If somebody's watching right now, loves your pants, right? Why do they have to, like, spend like real effort to either find it? Like we, the tech stack is getting to, especially with AI and everything else we're here, like, they're watching. They're like, oh, that's so cute. Boom. Out in like, that's the name of the game.
- [06:47]
Sofia
Netflix is doing it now too.
- [06:48]
Gary Vaynerchuk
There's no reality in a decade where things aren't more advanced, easier. The old adage of convenience is king. Is remarkably true. Like, we get annoyed when our food delivery is five minutes later than it said it would be. Like, do you understand that you were laying on your couch, double clicked on your phone, had your food. Like, you used to have to. Like, I'm of the age where, like, it was cool to just be able to call a restaurant and have them delivered and you have to Go to your kitchen and find the menu and call the place. And can you please stay on hold? I'm like, sure. Better than driving to the pizza shop. And driving to the pizza shop was a convenience 100 years ago, because before then, you had to make the pizza. Like, everything progressively gets easier for us. And we're about to go into the most significant, easier, lack of friction era since the Internet, which is this era. Like, we are going into an era where your. Where your agents, your agents are going to buy the clothes for you without even deciding you like the pants. Your refrigerator as an Internet of things with an AI overlay is going to realize you always buy this almond milk. Literally, the carton of the almond milk is going to be tech oriented to understand the weight. The fridge is gonna be able to feel the weight, is left with one more pour, and it's gonna reorder the almond milk for you. And so a lot of people listening right now, like, that sounds terrible. What do we like? I mean, this. This is what people do. They're like, that sounds terrible. There's a romance to go to the store.
- [08:21]
Phoebe
The washing machine was first invented. They're like, what are the housewives gonna do? Like, they're gonna be so bored. The suicide rate for women is gonna go up.
- [08:30]
Gary Vaynerchuk
The same thing for the typewriter. When a typewriter was invented, they're like, we're gonna lose the craft of our penmanship. And let's take it to the extreme. What about this beautiful thing called electricity? The term demonizing things came from electricity. When electricity came out and was available in homes, instead of candles, people did not put it in their home because word on the street was electricity was made by demons were in it. It was demons. That's how like, unbelievable. Just 120 years ago, the concept of that. And so we demonize things. And so, I mean, it's like, for all the kids that are listening, only 20 years ago, the concept of online dating was something that nobody talked about. Only 20 years ago, the concept of online dating was, like, taboo. Like, people were meeting on match.com in 2005, but made up stories to their friends and family that they met at a bar.
- [09:31]
Sofia
Now everyone meets on Hinge. I think it's so interesting that you say this because I was reading about you talking about your regrets of missing out on Uber and you said that one of the biggest things it taught you with just that convenience was king and that people were willing to pay to be able to save time on stuff.
- [09:46]
Gary Vaynerchuk
That one was even perceived time. My brother Took the first Uber in New York and the first week of Uber in New York. Because the conversation with Travis and Garrett that I was having at the time was like, yeah, this works in San Francisco. Cause San Francisco's transportation sucks. Well, this work in New York, subway taxis. And I remember the first Uber I took, I ordered it from my office. I was like, this is so cool. Coming down and I standing there and literally eight yellow cabs drive by with the light on. I'm like, fuck, I'm losing time. But like the perception that I was gonna gain time. Yeah, convenience is the ultimate king.
- [10:22]
Sofia
Like, where do you think there's opportunity for that with AI for like, what is worth doing yourself versus what should you be outsourcing?
- [10:29]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Well, I think. You know what's fun about that question. This actually could take us down a really fun path in this podcast. I think it's an individual thing. I think one of the things we're all struggling with in society right now is like, everyone's trying to impose their opinion on everyone else. Like, for me, I want AI to do absolutely everything so I can have as much time to be creative and to be with my friends and family. That's for me, there's nothing I'm gonna be sad about. And by the way, if I am sad about it, let's use my almond milk thing. If I'm the kind of human being who cannot wait for Saturday to wake up, work out, and then go and take a nice one hour stroll to the supermarket. Because I enjoy touching the tomatoes and I enjoy the interaction with other human beings in my local market. And it brings me happiness to pick which peanuts I want. Well, then I can. But for me, Gary, that is not interesting and I'd rather have that hour back. And so I think what AI is going to do is create unparalleled optionality. And so if you like to mow your lawn, well, mazel tov, mow your lawn. And so I think where this will go, and I hope people get more thoughtful about this, is there is no wrong or right outside of the most egregious things. And I think we have to get better at understanding. Like, I'm not gonna demonize somebody if they use AI for something that I'm not gonna use it for. And I think we've become incredibly judgmental.
- [11:58]
Sofia
Like what?
- [11:59]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Like, I just think people think everything you should, you should do this, you should do. Like the word should, even the way you asked it, like the word should has become incredibly powerful. Like what? Everyone has their two cents on everyone's fucking business.
- [12:11]
Phoebe
You know, I'm really excited for about AI. I'll tell you my, my fear, my main fear, and this is true in every, you know, digital revolution we've seen, whether that's the Internet, whether that's electricity, is that the third world gets left behind. I'm really worried about that personally. That's my fear.
- [12:26]
Gary Vaynerchuk
My other thing, real quick, just to jump on that, that was a very common conversation about this when it came out. And yet it went the other way. The mobile device had a tremendously positive impact on Africa. Will be an incredibly big topic over the next 30, 40 years.
- [12:45]
Phoebe
I would argue that it was not the cell phones that were as if you're arguing that the cell phones are the modality for the digital payments then.
- [12:51]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes, I am arguing that. Okay, that's fair, but I mean think about how profound that is.
- [12:55]
Phoebe
They are way ahead of us on digital payments.
- [12:57]
Gary Vaynerchuk
But in terms of it also connected people to the world.
- [13:00]
Phoebe
Yes, but in terms of actually benefiting their economy. If you think about the mobile phone as an invention of whose GDP it actually affected.
- [13:06]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes, but you're talking about a much more interesting conversation and a complicated one, which is the technology is not the punchline, it's government warfare.
- [13:14]
Phoebe
That is fair.
- [13:15]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know what I mean?
- [13:16]
Phoebe
Think about where data centers are being built now. That's going to be a huge, huge money machine. You know, we're in a gold rush and the shovels are going to matter, the picks and shovels are going to matter and the picks and shovels are only.
- [13:25]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes, but that is not the technology's fault. That becomes a conversation of geopolitics, the BRICS alliance versus the us like you start getting into real conversations.
- [13:32]
Phoebe
But my concern more is that like people aren't the US and for other first world countries are going to have access to these tools to chat GBT to progress themselves forward and then you're going to have, you know, someone who's born in a village, who doesn't have access to to a laptop, is gonna be nowhere near their counterpart who's just the same amount of intelligence as birth somewhere else.
- [13:50]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes, but you're talking about the flight of the human race, right? We can bring that to pavement and concrete and the industrial revolution that becomes a forever game.
- [14:01]
Phoebe
That's why I said it's with pain.
- [14:02]
Gary Vaynerchuk
But let's talk about that. Unlike 1900 when the industrial revolution created exactly what you're talking about at a profound scale because the 18th century had far less infrastructure. Right? So that was even I would argue that industrial revolution is even more profound than the revolution we have going on now. Unlike that in 1891, when you're born in the outskirts village of Chile, you have no idea what's going on in the world. Your entire world is a five mile radius. The child that today is born in a third world country is in a place where they become educated of what's going on in the world. There are people right now in third world countries consuming this podcast and they will hear something that one of you two say that may spark the beginning of inspiration that allows her to decide where she wants to live when she's 18.
- [14:56]
Phoebe
The thing I am really excited about, and to hit on that note, the thing is that most people live and die without ever seeing a doctor. And if you live, look at the amount of doctors per capita that you have or just per people. Like when I was working in Rwanda at Partners in Health, and they have one of the best health systems in Africa. They have these public health workers who, for the entire village, serve their entire village's health needs. Oh, and by the way, they're unpaid. They just get a cell phone and go around and help everybody. But the amount of, you know, if we can supercharge doctors within third world countries, that will be huge. And the stuff that they're doing with.
- [15:28]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Like call centers where you can call.
- [15:30]
Phoebe
In and then they can instantly like prescribe something and you just come and pick it up, or they can take notes for the doctor and ship out the prescriptions. I think that stuff is gonna be so, so important because if you can expand the amount of people who can touch a doctor, that's gonna be huge.
- [15:43]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Listen, I'm empathetic this last five minutes of this podcast, I'm incredibly compassionate, empathetic and understanding to people viewing things that are going on in the world and about to go in the world. From a concern, from a cynicism standpoint, my argument always is, what if you just took a step back and also decided to look at it from an optimistic standpoint? This last 30 seconds that you just talked about is incredibly important. None of us, none of us, not any one of the 8 billion of us, is in a position to fundamentally make the world exactly how we want it to be. That is not how things work. My argument is, if you look over the last 200 years on everything, every single issue, I'm incredibly proud and optimistic about the human race. I want everybody to hear this because I have a good sense that a lot of people here don't have A lot of context on me. I want them to also understand it is not lost on me that there's tons of terrible. This is not delusion coming out of my mouth. I'm not looking the other way. Of course there is profound, profound amounts of things going on around the world that are not fun from every angle, from every country, for every race and gender and age group, there's just unlimited things. We all as humans pick and choose which ones bother us. I'll give you one that's very weird for me. I am devastated by the collective disrespect of the elderly. We have gone through an incredible 25 year window where we put youth on a pedestal, looking young, acting young and just whiz kid. The fundamental inherent disrespect of 20 and 30 year olds around the world towards 80 and 90 year olds is unprecedented in the history of time. Pretty much forever. The elder. I'll explain. Basically from the beginning of time until about 50 years ago, the elders in our family, we took so much in their words. Our grandparents had so much say it mattered. We listened to their wisdom, to their life advice. Today we make jokes about them because they don't know how to use technology. What do I mean? It is not common practice for many 25 year olds that are listening right now to really seek out and sit down with an 80 year old that is not their grandparent to talk about life. That was dramatically more common 100 years ago. And so we've completely lost wisdom. And in fact we're shockingly disrespectful. What am I talking about? I'm talking about every time I'm at an airport 50 years ago, a 26 year old man would get up and let an 80 year old woman sit down in his seat when she walked by. And I watch every day that not happen anymore.
- [18:39]
Phoebe
Well, that should happen if a guy's a good dude.
- [18:41]
Gary Vaynerchuk
But by the way, how about not just I understand it should happen, it did happen. But by the way, let's not just pick on dudes. I watch un. This is the point that I'm trying to make. I don't think anybody of the other 8 billion people on earth should be upset or concerned or worried about what I'm saying. But I'm telling you right now, if this is like a weird thing and you're listening to everyone at home, just pay attention for the next 48 hours of like how a 70 and 80 year old is being interacted with by both men and women in their 20s and teens and 30s we've lost completely any kind of grace or respect towards the elderly in our society. And so, like, I'm passionate about that. I think that's interesting. I think that's a mistake. I think that's hurting us more than we realize. But I can't impose that on everyone. I'm not mad and think everyone's a piece of crap for not thinking about the 70 and 80 year olds in society. What I'm saying is overall technology, you know, penicillin, concrete, the tractor, overall technology has done a lot more good than bad for the human race. If you're willing to look at things in 50 and 100 year windows. To your point, is the AI going to be written in a biased manner? Is, you know, are we leaving behind, you know, some. The answer is, of course, humans are inherently flawed. There's going to be shortcomings. And my concern is that we're at the highest levels of hypocrisy. There's nothing the three of us here can talk about, or the three behind the camera, or the 8 billion people where we can judge and point fingers at people for what's wrong. But we rarely talk about what we suck at.
- [20:21]
Phoebe
Oh, my God, I suck it so much.
- [20:23]
Gary Vaynerchuk
But I mean, we. But you'll appreciate this, you and I, and maybe you, you know, like, we may talk about silly things we suck at. Oh, I'm bad at, like, I leave my clothes on the ground. We don't talk like, people aren't out here being like, you know, you know, I cheat on my taxes, like, no one's here, Nobody's going on a podcast and be like, you know, I beat my partner. Like, you know, nobody's going on. Like, what I'm saying is humans make mistakes and we've become incredibly judgmental. Everybody's got a hot take, everybody's got 2 cents and they don't even know these people. Like, when people have hot takes on people, you don't really know them.
- [21:00]
Phoebe
Yeah.
- [21:00]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And so these are like fun things to think about.
- [21:02]
Phoebe
What do you think?
- [21:03]
Sofia
Yeah. The reason why, like, I was curious for your perspective on the elderly is because also before we started rolling for this podcast, you were talking about, like, oh, I would hire a 12 year old if I just generally that there's so much opportunity in people who are younger, who do have an understanding of the current world that we live in. We live in a very different world than someone who is 80 now.
- [21:21]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Correct.
- [21:22]
Sofia
Grew up, like, without AI and without an understanding.
- [21:24]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I mean, you're sitting with somebody who's 49 years old. I went through all of my high school years without the Internet 100%.
- [21:31]
Sofia
But that's why, like, I think there are very legitimate criticisms of, like, for example, with our government.
- [21:36]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes.
- [21:36]
Sofia
If someone who is 70 or 80 is in charge of so many different things that they have no understanding of to me as a young person, like that does, when I look at election, all of that, I think those are areas where it's very legitimate to be able to have legitimate criticism.
- [21:53]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Oh, by the way, please. Thank you. I really appreciate that. Again, if I'm not being clear, I think criticism, by the way, everything is in play. What I'm saying is that that is appropriate. And then what I'm asking for all of us to debate is like, what are we then gonna do about it? Right. Like, I think we've gotten very good at commenting and adding our opinions and poking fingers and I'm just curious about where is everybody at with thumbs, to your point. If you think, if, let's say for you, the concept of 70 to 80 year olds running the country, you have the ability you to make a decision. You could decide to build this company and do this podcast, or you could decide to commit your life to changing the political system you're allowed to or because you're a proper human being, it's not that you have to be 100% here and 100% there. You may decide because you're passionate about this, to spend two hours a day on trying to have an impact on campaigns of 30 year olds and things that everyone's allowed. You know, for example, I also have a lot of, you know, I was born in the Soviet Union, I was born in the USSR in a really shitty place. And so I'm incredibly affected by where you're born. Right. So, you know, I spend a lot of my time on Pencils of Promise and Charity Water, which spend their time on trying to bring water to the 800 million people on Earth that don't have clean water access. And I build schools in Ghana and Guatemala where literally, if a school is not built there, the children sit under a tree with an elder statesman and read the same old book. I decided that was important to me. I don't think that makes me better than anyone. Not better than anyone. I'm just very passionate right now about accountability. We've become incredibly good because of the media landscape to sit around and talk about a lot of stuff. I'm hot on action and I'm hot on compassion and empathy of like, just a little more thoughtfulness. On why things are the way they are.
- [23:55]
Phoebe
I'm curious as to change since you've gotten married. Do you. Do you feel like there was a turning point in your career where you started to have this amount of self reflection or do you feel like you've always been this way?
- [24:03]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I feel like I've always been this way cause my mother is the single greatest human on earth. You know, my mom has so much humanity in her and the way she raised me, she championed and the luck of DNA. Like I've always been. I see this in my son. By default, empathy comes natural to me. So my brain does. It defaults into like, what's this mean to them? Like, I really struggle with people that are deeply selfish and emotionally like are just incapable of deploying sympathy, compassion and empathy. But I'm also very. And back to that empathy. I'm understanding like I think everything is allowed as long as your intent and your actions are trying its actual best not to hurt someone. The reality is like this is just life and there's a lot of variables to it and there's always things going.
- [24:56]
Sofia
On and I know we want to. I saw the note from Margot. Focus this conversation also, of course, on business.
- [25:03]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Okay.
- [25:03]
Sofia
That's like the primary focus of our podcast. But I do want to touch on something I thought that was really interesting was that you hired a chief heart officer.
- [25:10]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes, company.
- [25:11]
Sofia
And you've said that you think EQ is more important than IQ when it comes to managers. Can you talk about how you can relate empathy and all these different things to business?
- [25:19]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah, it's a great segue. I think we just got into all that rant around humanity. I would argue to the business landscape that retention of employees and them being happy while they're there is the single biggest variable if you're trying to build something meaningful long term. So you young ladies and many of the people listening, it is very in many people's minds to start and to sell it. Right. That's like. And that's interesting cause I'm a little bit more og like every business I've ever built is only I'm trying to build in perpetuity and leave it to my kids. It's very immigrant shit. Right. So when I started investing in Silicon Valley Startups in 2006, 7 one of the quick observations were like, wait a minute, they're not building companies, they're building financial arbitrage machines just to get to the exit. And so a lot of things I cared about were not as important. The thing I always cared about was the. I used to call it the atmosphere. Now it's called culture, right? Like, yes, VaynerX. So everybody who's listening, I have about a 2,500 person global marketing agency. My career 15 years ago took a weird shift where I started an advertising agency and on Madison Avenue, like Don Draper, Mad Men style, I put the flag in the ground that said, hey, advertising, you've got this all wrong. It's not television and search and direct mail and billboards, social media and content and podcasts and YouTube are gonna eat up the world. And I got laughed at. And now we have one of the biggest companies in the entire industry. What you're referring to is Claude Silver, who first came to me as an account person. But I could just see that she was like me, like it was all about the people. And she actually quit. Cause she herself, in working for me, found her purpose and she thought she was gonna go be like a Sharma or whatever, you know, like, you know. And then luckily I was able to, a year later, convince her to come back and instead of being the account person, I made her the chief heart officer. And we made up that title because I didn't want our hr. At that point I realized that HR was like considered scary. I didn't know that about corporate America. Like they were the bad guys. I was like, that's the good guys, I thought. And so I want, I wanted to set a different tone in my company, that our HR department is actually your friend. In fact, one of the biggest things that happened at my company is in the boardrooms. My chief heart officer, Claude, has more juice and political clout and say on decisions than my Chief Financial Officer, Alan Harker, which is unheard of if you really know business. Like the CFO has a lot of fucking say. In fact, most companies, the CFOs running the company, not even the CEO, which is like a brain fuck for an entrepreneur like me. So, yeah, it's been great. We have unheard of retention in my company. Last night I had a 45 minute drink with Ben Allison. He's, you know, and I was like, how long you been here now, Ben? He's like 10 years like that in ad land in advertising, a year and a half, people are moving, jumping around. It's a pretty fucked up. In fact, one of the reasons I still love building VaynerMedia is the, in the. The industry's a little fucked up. It's not very good to its people, it's not very good at what it does right now. And I kind of am enjoying fucking it up. And the way I think about that is it's not just back to something we were talking about earlier. You know, what I like about my career and what I hope others have. This business is fun. Because if you really want to play it, it's a place you can be selfish and selfless at the same time. I love Vayner because in one point, selfishly, I'm building a very large company and it's going well. But in the other point, I'm really fucking up an industry that's fucked up to people. And now people are starting to have to copy me. Cause I'm winning. And the beneficiary of that is everyone who's gonna work in advertising that feels nice. And that's like the good side of business. The good side of business is if you're a good guy or girl and you're successful, people will copy you. And that's profound. And I'm a big believer in that. In fact, one of the only times I've ever been booed, publicly booed, was when I was giving a keynote speech at south by Southwest. And my opening line was, fuck Steve Jobs at the height of Steve Jobs. And like, literally dead silence and then booing. And I said, I understand, but let me tell you why I'm saying that. And I said, I have watched over the last 24 months, 10 of my friends who have startups go from being nice guys to being dickheads. Cause the word on the street is you have to be tough on your people to get the most out of them. And I'm like, I don't like that part. I like the innovation part. I like building great products, but I like certain parts. But we cannot allow. In fact, I'm actually thinking about starting a fashion brand called Nice Guys Finish First. I'm being dead serious. I want to champion good behavior in business. Cause I believe it is what wildly capable. There's unlimited people that are not known, many that are known, that are running great businesses and being very human to the best of their ability. The problem with business is in parenting. You can over coddle and you just have entitled kids. In government, you can over coddle. There's no fucking ramifications. In academia you can over coddle. And there is no ramifications in business. If you over coddle your team and your company, you will go out of business. And so business is hard because it's the closest thing to sports. It's merit. Like, if you guys don't do a good job this is gone, and you'll have to do something else. So business is, for me, it's very hard. As someone who is truly his mother's son, like, I've struggled for 25 years in firing people. My kryptonite has been, ironically, Gary Vee, the public figure, very canderous. Gary Vaynerchuk, the boss, not canderous. For 20 years, it was my kryptonite because I felt bad. Like, I don't care enough about the money or the business. I was like, you have. Like, could you. Like, you guys are gonna go through this. I'm sitting in my office and I'm like, sally stinks. Or Ricky stinks. I've gotta fire them. But fuck. Cause I'm out sewing my employee shit. I'm like, but Ricky's fucking dad just got diagnosed with cancer. Oh, it's so right. So I'm like, what the fuck do I do with that? But you also know that John just quit because he thinks you're an idiot because Ricky sucks and you're not firing him. And he's like, fuck this place. I'm going to Google. Business sucks. Cause it's real. It's sports. Sports and business have true ramifications. Academia, corporate government, parenting. Most things don't have merit. Like, if you fuck, it's just like. It's just fucking hard out here. Way more than people realize.
- [31:51]
Sofia
It's so interesting to me also, because you're one of the only male media personalities that I follow who has always talked about, you need to be kind, like, you need to be a good person. And it's really scary because I would say most of the young boys our age follow really inflammatory men. Like, to be honest, Elon Musk on Twitter. And they think that that's the type of personality they need to aspire to be, to be super successful in the world. What would you say to people like that?
- [32:18]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Look, I think there's chapters in people's lives. Like, I literally just got a DM from someone on this topic, which was like, literally. I read the whole thing, Gary. I fucked with you heavy from 2006-9. Then I was like, oh, God. Then I was like, fuck this dude. Cause he liked the wine stuff. Then he was like, then you went into business. And I was like, it's too fucking. Like, he thought I was like, too, like, over. Cause I'm hyped. I'm like, you gotta fucking get. You know? He's like, I thought you were like, too. This kid's a left kid, not a Right, kid, I'm going in a different direction with you. Basically I read this whole 4 paragraph thing just cause I randomly read DMs like that I'm in it with my community. What I took away from it was I watched this kid go from very socially liberal to very conservative to now purple to back to liberal. Like literally. He gave me his timeline of his relationship with. And I think, to answer your question, it ebbs and flows. A lot of this hardcore right stuff came because there was such hardcore left stuff. It's overreactions. I actually am incredibly purple by nature. Like in a world of red and blue. I just could never comprehend doing what so many people are doing in life right now, which is they've come so hard on identity politics that they change their mind of what's in their soul to fit fully blue or fully red. I would tell you and everybody who's listening, I have good news. This is going to ebb and flow. And what would I tell everyone? To be empathetic of why. I am empathetic of why from every angle. Now I just want to make myself clear. There is never an appropriate time for anyone to do the wrong things. But to remind people, because I've really watched society for 20 years. Years. Heavy. It's what I do for a living. It's really social listening is what I would say. I actually do human anthropology. I do it for the sake of understanding what to do in business and what I want to talk about, you know, and how to land a kind message all the time, you know, like, you know, so I use it for those reasons. But I would say to everybody, I have good news. These things ebb and flow and what's the wrong thing comes in different chapters. There was a lot of people's lives ruined in 2017 and 18 who did not deserve it. They were fully canceled for dumb shit. I mean, Virgil Abloh, Rest In Peace, got canceled on Twitter for giving too little of a donation to some charity. Meanwhile, quietly, he was giving tons of like. So we got a little crazy in 17 and 18. We're just gonna cancel everyone right now. We're a little crazy of being a little too, like fuck everyone, you know. And so I think it goes, it goes in ebbs and flows. What I would tell young people, especially who are listening, like, look, of course you're allowed to be concerned, but I ask you from the depths of my heart, please don't be scared. Let me explain why. Let's just use America. Let's just say you're really bent out of shape. We could all agree that over the last 20 years, it's been tumultuous, right? Every time there's a new president or a new governor or new mayor, I'm moving. I'm moving. I've watched every Republican and Democrat friend of my life saying they're moving. Right. I would say something pretty powerful. And it's similar to that little kid growing up in the suburbs of Chile or outskirts of Chile. If you genuinely, as a human being, wake up tomorrow and be like, this sucks, Manhattan. Obviously, we have a big mayor race, America. Right. I just want you to know you're capable of leaving. And I'm not saying, like, get the fuck out, like those people say. I'm just saying you as a human, like, if everybody understood how remarkably in charge of their life there is, if they just understood. And it goes very deep. Let me bounce around a little bit. A lot of kids just knowing the audience here, a lot of you young ladies, young men that watch this, a lot of you are making decisions in your life right now to appease your parents. And I implore you to understand the ramifications of that. And I actually think it comes from a great place. A lot of you listening are very lucky. You have great parents and you love them very much. And you want to become a doctor or engineer or go to Harvard or Stanford or go into banking because you're so grateful for all the things they gave you. But in your soul, you're creative and you want to do something else. Here's what's going to happen. If you decide to do what you want mom or dad to do, or both of them, it'll be okay. Ish. But at some point, you're going to be 33 and you're going to start resenting them for it. And it's better to have the tough conversation now and address that convo. And yes, they'll be disappointed for a year or two, but if you actually follow your. Like, ultimately, every parent just wants their kid to actually be happy. They just think they know what's gonna make their kid happy at a certain point. But I've just watched over the last 20 years so many people at 35, and then they blame. They're like, mom, it's your fault. You pushed me into. We have to be accountable, even at 22. And so I guess what I'm saying is you're in control. And the more you know you're in control, the more you're actually gonna be happy. And I just. I wish everyone who was Listening, knew how in control. All the way they are all the way, including rules that mayors, governors, presidents make. Like the world is a profound, profoundly interesting place right now. And with technology and with zooms and VR coming and all the things that are coming, the optionality for the 18 to 30 year old set is profound. And I wish they could just turn. Instead of looking here and being like, this is fucked up, could you just turn your head and say this is remarkable. And if you spend a little more time on remarkable, it'll make it a little more balanced.
- [37:50]
Phoebe
And I know you talk about like really focusing on the places where there's, you know, you can get. You talked about Google Ads really early on.
- [37:57]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes.
- [37:57]
Phoebe
You would buy like keywords like for literally 5 cents. And then you like took the wine business from literally being like what, 3 to 4 million in revenue to 60 million in revenue like over the course of a year or two years.
- [38:07]
Gary Vaynerchuk
It was a five year period. But we had no money, no capital raised, no credit line. And so my back to business instead of all this big talk. My premise, my latest book, Day trading Attention. My premise is everyone who's listening, even with little bits of money and right now with organic social, with literally no money, if you know where the attention is and you get good at it, you win. So even further back, I know there's a bunch of youngsters here. Let me take you to the og. When I launched a website for my dad's liquor store in 1997, people were like, that would be like me saying, hey, let's all go to Mars and set up a flower shop. That's how everybody around my dad was like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, it was so crazy. That was the first underpriced move I did. The next one was actually email. You know, the stories about Google and social media building my dad's business are a little bit like off in that I would argue if you actually put me in the corner and said, truly the one thing you did to build that business for your dad, I would say email. Nobody knew what it was. It was all, I was competing with wine stores, selling catalogs. So while everybody was spending lots of money making catalogs to sell high end wine to people in Manhattan, I was emailing them down at Wall street and selling it four weeks before they got the catalog.
- [39:28]
Phoebe
And what would you say is places that we should focus right now?
- [39:30]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Live social shopping.
- [39:31]
Phoebe
Live social shopping. Okay. Live social shopping. Besides that, like, because every girl who like looks like us is on TikTok Instagram.
- [39:38]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yep.
- [39:38]
Phoebe
Should we be on Snapchat, YouTube? Where else should we be? Snap?
- [39:43]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Are you asking should we be there? Marketing to build up our podcast and our app. Yes. Substack Snapchat YouTube shorts. I got a big one for you. Facebook. Facebook Blue.
- [39:54]
Phoebe
We were just hearing that from the diary of a CEO team that they're all over Facebook and it's their biggest growth.
- [40:00]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Facebook Blue is a fucking monster. And you know what's happened and this may make sense for the youngsters in this room right now because of marketplace for like random stuff for their apartment and because of groups, there's a stunning amount of 22. You know, it's one of these funny things. There's a lot. It's almost like online dating 20 years ago. There's a lot more 22 to 32 year old usage of Facebook Blue than people realize. But it's almost like every 24 year old doesn't even want to say it out loud.
- [40:26]
Sofia
I love Facebook Marketplace.
- [40:29]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You love it. You love it. Yo. No, I'm sorry, right? Look at this. You just said it. You just literally said it. You just said why do you love Facebook Blue? Because that's just where like my entire community is, like my entire professional network is still on Facebook. Yeah. How old are you? I'm 25. Yeah, I mean, I mean Facebook for.
- [40:47]
Sofia
Fear you do we have a set up for.
- [40:50]
Gary Vaynerchuk
But let's, but let's get into the punchline, right? But let's get to the punchline so everybody learns. For all the entrepreneurs that are listening, here's the thing. And this is why I wrote the book and by the way actually made a free deck. Garyvee.com attention for everybody who doesn't have 20 bucks to buy the book. Literally I pirated my own self. Literally.
- [41:11]
Phoebe
We're gonna buy some books. We should do a giveaway for the audience, literally for people listening to the episode.
- [41:15]
Gary Vaynerchuk
But honestly, you don't even have to do that. It's literally. I summed it up in a 44 page deck. Pretty good. Garyvee.com Attention here's the thing, why most people are not great at social and what has been the foundation of my 20 year career of staying relevant is you can't post the same picture and video on Facebook and Instagram the exact same way and think the same thing's gonna happen. We disrespect the audience too much. I'll give you an example, you two ladies. When you open Instagram and when you open LinkedIn, you're still you, right? You're the human. But your entire mindset of why you're in there is completely different. The way you're gonna act in this podcast, in the way is gonna be different than when you guys act in a business meeting, which is gonna be very different than when you're acting with your family, which would be very different if you guys took a girls trip for a weekend to a spa or Vegas or Ibiza.
- [42:09]
Phoebe
Wait, why have we done none of those things, Sofia?
- [42:11]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Cause you're building.
- [42:11]
Sofia
Yeah.
- [42:12]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Cause you're building.
- [42:12]
Phoebe
Where are we going on that?
- [42:13]
Gary Vaynerchuk
No, don't do that. Just keep building. I like what you guys are doing. Keep building. Exactly. Which, oh, by the way, you'll still be fucking children. And it's gonna be enjoyable. So anyway, what most marketers do wrong is they don't realize first, the consumers are slightly different. Obviously you're gonna get a lot more 63 year olds on Facebook blue than you will get on TikTok. Though plenty of 60 year olds are on TikTok. But more importantly, the psychology is different. And so the clip you use, even if you decide to use the same exact clip, the copy that supports the clip needs to be different. The first three second preview might be slightly different.
- [42:51]
Sofia
What are the things that should be different?
- [42:53]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Well, you gotta think about like, notice how he said my communities on Facebook, TikTok and Instagram have become more and more an interest layer. More than a community layer. Right. Like, right. That made sense to all of you. Whereas Facebook has more of a community layer. So I'll give you an example. If I'm trying to sell those shoes on Facebook versus Instagram, by the way, those are nice shoes. I would look at those shoes if I did an Instagram. More from the lens of like a magazine Runway, more like a culture thing. Whereas that shoe on Facebook I would talk more about like, this is the shoe you should buy your girlfriend right now. Like to a girl, meaning, not like this. Do you have a four. You know, is somebody having their 30th birthday in your network? This is the itch shoe as the gift. Because I know the community mindset there is even deeper than it is on Instagram. The psychology. Whereas on Instagram, excuse me. Whereas on LinkedIn, if I was trying to sell that shoe, I'd be like tired of having something that doesn't feel comfortable. Cause you wanna look great as you're running through the airport to your next meeting. You see where I'm going? I need to understand the psychology of the person I'm trying to target on each platform. Thus Rendering my creative and my copy slightly, slightly different. Even though the agenda in all three is to get them to buy that shoe. Just like your agenda is to get all of them to download the app and use it.
- [44:14]
Phoebe
What's your biggest growth channel for your podcast right now? And do you specifically when you do advertisements, are you doing them in specific countries or are you just doing them for views?
- [44:22]
Gary Vaynerchuk
What does that look like for my personal brand right now I'm not really doing. I'm in a very interesting part. In fact, even doing this podcast for the last 18 months, I've been incredibly uncomfortably head down building vfriends and building vaynermedia. Vayner X. I'm kind of just this fall is my coming out party. I'm doing more podcasts and I'm gonna start focusing more on my shit. That being said, Vayner X spends $3 billion in media and social and I look at all my data on my stuff all the time. I will tell you that for me personally, I have substantial growth in the Middle east and I will keep double downing on that. From a business business lens, I've got a lot going on in Nigeria. We were joking earlier about India continues to grow. I'm skewing more female every day, which is interesting. And like I look at that stuff, I think it has a little bit to do with like how I what I talk about. I mean, look like, you know, I am, I am definitely uncomfortably a purple and then b very big on emotional intelligence. Intelligence and feelings. So I know that makes sense to me. And then what's interesting about me is I like talking about a lot of different things for the people that are listening. I talk about all sorts of things. Wine, I talk about garage, saling and flipping. I talk about blockchain, I talk about AI, I talk about business, I talk about entrepreneurship. I talk about humanity and social issues. So like, you know, it ebbs and flows, but the opportunities are on every single. The punchline is everyone's looking for like, where's the arbitrage? The arbitrage is on every platform if you know how to speak its language. Every person can explode right now in the world on YouTube, YouTube, Shorts, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Snap, TikTok, all of them. Snapchat Spotlight is like a TikTok or Instagram, but nobody really uses it for that yet. There's a stunning amount of consumption, but far less creators posting on it. So it becomes supply and demand. Substack that whole world irl, streaming, Twitch and kick. Like that is, I mean Most of the famous people to 15 to 25 year olds are popping up in IRL now. Right? The iShowSpeed, the kaisanets, the IRL is massive. And it could be debated that when you do this podcast that you have an IRL of it which shows all of it. And some people are like, wait, but then are they gonna listen? I'm like, who cares? They're listening twice. Or you're still getting the audience. And some people would prefer to watch this with all the oh, he tipped over the water before we even got on. And some people would rather watch the post produced higher quality. Like I wanna give the audience unlimited optionality to what flavor they like best.
- [47:07]
Sofia
Yeah, I wanna touch on something that you said about. So your audience is. Has started to skew more female. There could be multiple reasons why, but specifically I'm curious, do you have different advice for men versus women on the type of content they should be posting on social media to go viral? Do you think it's different?
- [47:25]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I am definitely a human being that believes like yes, girl and boys are different, but not like so radically different. Right. As far as. So that's an overall thing as a secondary thing, not really meaning, here are the things that I look. Girls and boys are different. There's different things to think about. But the reality is that an audience is attracted to value. Value is the game. And like we talked a little bit earlier about people that want on pictures versus video. It's not super complicated. What's value? There's knowledge. I know that I am not wildly fat followed because I am the most handsome man on earth. I'm also aware that for Justin Bieber and Justin Timberlake and like and Leonardo DiCaprio, many of the following that they got was for their looks. Right? I do not have a very large following because I am the greatest athletic freak. I'm aware that for LeBron James and Serena Williams, for other people, people admired and enjoyed their incredible athletic pro. I think that there is a lot of different value one can bring, whether you're a boy or girl. What I'm hoping everybody understands is the number one way you will win is if you provide value. Right now we may judge people's value. There's people right now on Instagram who have a million followers and all they do is show their six pack abs and their muscles. Right? And of that million, 250,000 are women who are just wildly attracted to their physiques and 750,000 are men who are trying to follow those people to have the same Thing you're allowed to be like, that's not good. I think it's fine. Like there's a lot of things that bring value. So some people are gonna like. It depends. To me, the advice is always grounded in the value. Right. What values are you bringing? For me, I have very substantially strong 20 year credibility of bring business advice, specifically for what's happening that most people can't see, which is becoming more and more valuable. I am also valuable because I am a very positive person, but I'm grounded in practicality. So it's all love and it's good and you can, but it's not like coddling. It's like this is real shit and you have to be accountable. And so for people who are ready for that and like that they will like me. So, you know, I think it, I think my advice is not different. I'm saying it's about self awareness.
- [49:51]
Sofia
Yeah. Part of the reason I ask is we had a debate in our office the other day. I don't know if we've seen like a startup cluli.
- [49:58]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yep.
- [49:58]
Sofia
Okay, so there's the cluli approach to marketing and then there's, there's several other companies that market in a similar way and of course they've been tremendously successful at getting a lot of attention, but a lot of that attention has been male attention. So one of our friends runs a very similar Instagram account and he told us 90% of his audience is men. And so we were thinking about, okay, if we want to appeal to women, should there be differences in the way that we do?
- [50:19]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Of course, of course. But again, that's only one generalization. Right. Like we have to click down next. Then there's women of income level, gender, race, age, like, you know, of course human, you know, and then it goes down to literally individual marketing. I'm a 49 year old white male, high income. But there's, but literally most of the people that target me have, I don't want a watch, I do not want a high end sports car, I don't care about sailing, I don't give a fuck about golf, I don't smoke cigars. Like all the shit that targets me is so off. But I understand why they're targeting me. Right. So. And by the way, I'm sure it does quite well with many 49 year old new York City high net, you know, and so what I would say to you, you is yes, you start with boy, girl, and in some level that's one place to start. There's, there's Country, America versus India then. Or there's age. Gen Z versus Boomerang. There's these macro things and then you keep going lower and this is where AI is going to play a big factor. How many pieces of content do you guys put out on social in a week for this podcast?
- [51:27]
Sofia
Like 10 a day on TikTok, one a day on YouTube. YouTube shorts.
- [51:31]
Gary Vaynerchuk
100. Great. When I was saying make 100 pieces of content a week five years ago, I literally got ridiculed by everyone. I'm saying that this podcast in five years is gonna put out 10,000 pieces of content a week.
- [51:45]
Phoebe
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised.
- [51:47]
Sofia
Why not? If it's easy and like not expensive, I would, I would put a million pieces of content.
- [51:53]
Gary Vaynerchuk
There you go. So what I'm. And what will that do? That will give you the optionality to actually make your podcast and your app relevant to a 67 year old Hispanic female that lives in the Pacific Northwest. Right. Because in that you may be able to show her in the content, you may be able to reference coffee and rain culture. You know.
- [52:17]
Phoebe
I'm from the Pacific Northwest, by the way.
- [52:18]
Gary Vaynerchuk
There was a reason I said that, you know, I thought I could hit that with you. And so. So, you know, I think that, yes, I think that if you're trying to get an audience, you have to win on relevance and what is relevant to that audience. But I remind people that generalizations are fine and real wide demos TV used to market 18 to 35. You guys are of the age where I think, you know that you're not the same person you were when you were 18. And I have a news alert. You're gonna be different at 35. I hope so. And so yeah, I think, yes, I think this is where we're all headed.
- [52:51]
Phoebe
I hope Sofia looks at me at 35 and goes, wow, Phoebe was a horrible co founder at 22 and she's amazing now. I hope that every five years there's something like that, wow, that five years ago, Phoebe Woo, she was tough.
- [53:03]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I think the way you do that. And this is now I'm saying this mainly because I'm gonna assume there's some co founders listening. The only way that will happen is if you two continue to over communicate even when it is hard and you don't want to disappoint the other person.
- [53:16]
Phoebe
You know, it's difficult because we try and set like every month transparently like just a three hour block for like reflection and we'll go for like a walk. Right?
- [53:23]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Okay.
- [53:24]
Phoebe
What went well last Month.
- [53:25]
Gary Vaynerchuk
What?
- [53:26]
Phoebe
Didn't go well? How are we doing on communication? Hey, how can I improve? What our goals for this next month.
- [53:30]
Gary Vaynerchuk
But things get so busy.
- [53:32]
Phoebe
Fucking busy.
- [53:32]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah, 100%.
- [53:33]
Phoebe
Like, I don't have time for a three hour block with you.
- [53:35]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Like, can I.
- [53:36]
Phoebe
Let's cancel it and let's do something else.
- [53:38]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Correct. Can I give you one from someone who also with his 11 year younger brother, co founded Vayner and like, we went through the same thing. Be a counter puncher instead of an attacker. You're attacking three hour block instead, knowing that it's important that you guys go there with each other. Have it on your mind at all times and when the opportunity presents itself, address it.
- [54:05]
Phoebe
Yeah, got it.
- [54:07]
Gary Vaynerchuk
So, like, because it's always on both of your minds after this podcast that we're now gonna be counter punchers, let's say you like this idea, then that would mean that one of you may know something. You may overhear in the office that her meeting got canceled. And you may realize, you know, I'm just doing mundane email and I have a flight tomorrow where I can catch up on email. You can text her and be like, hey, let's go take a walk and it's nice outside. Let's go take the walk now. God, you see where I'm going? Do not let your calendar or your ideology control you. Let the reality control you.
- [54:35]
Phoebe
It's more that the calendar just serves as a reminder.
- [54:37]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I get it.
- [54:38]
Phoebe
But then it's like, we don't. It's hard to find that time.
- [54:40]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I'm gonna say it again for a.
- [54:42]
Phoebe
Moment where I'm doing mundane.
- [54:43]
Sofia
But I love what you're saying though.
- [54:44]
Gary Vaynerchuk
But there has to. I'm sorry, go ahead.
- [54:46]
Sofia
The idea now of regularly scheduled meetings because I'll realize the day before I'm like, man, I wish I could just talk about this right now. Or like, do this thing right now. Because I, I think that actually the regular reminder is important because just looking at the week and being like, oh, this week we're supposed to be reflecting on our progress makes me in that moment think, and then if there's something that spurs we should talk about this, then I naturally am like, let's just talk about it now. If you're having lunch, let's do it over our lunch. But you don't need to wait until the regularly scheduled meeting. If there's something top of mind, I think you should just address it.
- [55:20]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Look, I think this is back to the purple of it all. Like, scheduling's awesome. Being human And Serendipitous is awesome. And find that balance.
- [55:28]
Phoebe
And. Okay, I want to run our Birkin marketing idea by him. We can cut this, but. Okay. So one idea we had is we wanted to put a Birkin in, like, a glass thing and run it through Times Square with a QR code on the front of it. And then if you download FIA and you go through the whole onboarding process, you can basically, like, opt into the giveaway. Right.
- [55:47]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I think the thing you have to think about immediately is what kind of user you're gonna get from that. Yeah, like, it'll feel good on the numbers, but it's classic. The thing I learned about email in 1997, how many people were on the email was important, but what was way more important was how many opened it.
- [56:05]
Phoebe
So what would you. If you go ahead, do you think.
- [56:07]
Sofia
There'S a better space to do it?
- [56:09]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Sorry, I'm asking for the. No, no. This is fun, by the way. This is what I live for. So let's fire away. Heck, I think you should have it.
- [56:13]
Sofia
On the podcast than if we were walking around soho.
- [56:17]
Gary Vaynerchuk
There's that. By the way. You took it to that place that would definitely, like, if I was your partner. And we're thinking about incentives, like, they're not downloading the right reason because they.
- [56:25]
Sofia
Don'T understand the value proposition.
- [56:26]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yours is layer one, that's layer two. Both are valid. And yours. This is why these kind of meetings are fun. We can get. There is a place to get with this thing that you're talking about. There is a place to get too. And yes, I would do it in SoHo when we figure out what that thing is. You know what I mean? So, yeah, I think the thing that people get caught up in is growth hacking for the sake of growth hacking. Like, listen again, kind of talking about what I've observed for what has worked for me. And I also talk a lot about a lot of things. And I never use myself as the only proxy. The other thing that I've seen from the people who've been able to be consistently successful or relevant or. Or executing is off of one basis. If you are obsessed with the marathon versus the sprint, you have a shot because it is a actual marathon. So if you are able. Let me give you a perfect cliche thing that you might be dealing with. If the reason this concept is popping up is because you're like, wait a minute, it could be one of two things. We're rolling and let's put fuel on the fire. Or wait a minute, we had this great last two months, but we can feel that it's slowing down a little bit. We need something to get it. Cause you were addicted to the growth you had the prior eight weeks or 15 weeks. Both of those need to be really thought and understood. For example, my personal brand, I just sat here and told you that for the last 18 months it's been, oh, you know, and that was okay. I don't need to be the hottest top of mind person of the moment in my genre. It's okay when other people are having that moment because I'm over here. But I'm also like, hey, wait a minute. I like what the Gary Vee brand does for me for business as a top of the funnel thing. So hey, I'm gonna. Now after 18 months, I'm gonna go back. This was something I said no to consistently for 18 months. Podcasting. Yeah. Correct. Podcasting that were emerging or the top podcasts in the world. The answer was no. Cause this hour, you know, this Mike, you watch me in my office 9 to 9pm all 12 months last year, period. But now, because I'm like, okay, I got off what I needed there. I feel good about the pieces and the people I've put in place. I'm like, ready. So here I am. Same advice I wanna give for you guys, which is make sure you know why you're doing it and then make sure you know who you're getting out of it. The reason I love content and social content is, is the clip. And this is actually a very big one for you guys. Don't get addicted. This is actually very good advice that I wish I'm gonna start giving more of this advice. Don't make the clip just for the maximizing of views. Some of my favorite pieces of content for me are the least performing views. Content I put out because I had a purpose of what I wanted out of it. So let me give you an example. This may not be on your radar, but I. I am building a Pokemon, Sesame Street, Disney Marvel, like brand called vFriends. 280 characters, patient panda. I'm really excited about it. Intuitive iguana. It's like a real world.
- [59:28]
Phoebe
Yeah. Every set.
- [59:29]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes. I have to. I got you. So I'm really excited about it when I put out a piece of content where I'm asking people to buy stickers or trading cards or stuffed animals because I'm like, I feel comfortable. Back to a book I wrote called Jab, jab, jab, right hook. If you're giving and giving and giving and giving to your audience. Like, I think an appropriate podcast for you would be the entire podcast is four minutes. And you're just telling your audience a lot of you have not downloaded the app. We love you and like, it would mean the world to the two of us if you all would download the app and really play with it and give us your feedback. That's a productive podcast. Like a standalone, not a pre roll, not a mid roll, not. Oh, Gary, thank you for doing that for us right now. And I mean it, everybody, please download the app. No, I mean an actual. How long are your podcasts? Usually when you put them out. Great. When I wake up and I'm addicted to your podcast and I see there's a three minute podcast, I'm like, that's interesting. And it's just titled the Ask. And you're just being very honest with them. Here's what I will tell you. Happen. What would happen if you do this and listen to me, it would not get the most listens of all time, but fucking Christ, would it get a lot of downloads. And that's okay. So sometimes I'm getting 800,000, a million views consistently on my content and then I'll post something that gets 110,000. But 400 of those people bought a T shirt or started watching the cartoons with their kids or bought a stuffed animal. You see where I'm going? So you've got to mix it up. The only KPI can't just be brand and awareness. Sometimes it's okay for it to be a business ask, and the more you give them, the more likely when you go in for a business ask, it will do well.
- [61:12]
Sofia
That's so funny you said that. We had the exact same conversation yesterday with our friend who came in and like staged an intervention with us who said, you guys have been so focused on brand building on your Instagram, like you're giving people all this content about fashion, your own personal stories, whatever. Why are you not directly telling them? Here's what the app does. Can you download it? And we were like, oh, well, we don't want to seem too asky. We don't want to be too salesy. Like, we're building a community. And he was like, well, if you're really building a community that supports you, they should be okay with also understanding, like, you want them to download the app. And I was like, you're so right. We need to go make a video right now. Being like, this is why we built this. This is what it does. Please download it instead of Being like, here are the best trends of the month.
- [61:57]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah. And by the way, if you do that 95% to 5%, to your friend's point, I don't know what point he or she was making, but if you're 100% and 0, and now you've been doing it long enough, like, if you were on day three of the podcast and content, I'd be like, don't do that at all. Like, do a year's worth of brand building and community value. But think about, actually, here's a good way for everyone at home. If you're debating this, think about the person you love the most in your fans because they're the biggest giver without expectation. Like, it's not manipulation. They're just. They're the giver in your family. Think about the times if this has ever happened. Cause some people give too much like that they've asked for something, you're like, thrilled to do it for them.
- [62:38]
Sofia
Yes.
- [62:39]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Right. If you're thinking right now about. And by the way, you can extend this to your friends, right? Let's say your person has five friends. If the friend of that bunch that's never asking, never bothering, never selfish, if every five years they're like, hey, can you like, watch my house? You're like, I'll walk there and watch your house. It's called relationships. You have a relationship with this audience. You guys have consistently. And by the way, I would do brand over everything every day of the week. But you've got to sprinkle the occasional ask, especially when you have what you have in place, which is you have a very good app in place. It's clearly bringing value to people. You're proud of it, I assume, right? Sometimes people ask me, because during certain drops after not asking for anything, I may do a four or five post about, like, hey, buy the trading cards or buy what you know. And then like, by the fourth one, people like, Gary, you fucking changed. You sold out. Like, I thought you were about giving. I'm like, bro, look at the breadth of it.
- [63:35]
Phoebe
I bid.
- [63:35]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know? You know what I mean? But what I'm saying is that's okay. And I say to them, I'm like, hey, I understand that. And you're allowed to. And listen, if you don't wanna watch my content anymore. Cause I asked after 4,000 pieces of content for you. I've asked for three. For me, you're allowed. But people, this was one exchange I had recently. He's like, yeah, but you feel so selly. And I'm like, after not feeling selly, I'm like, But I feel proud to sell this. I believe that if more children collect veefriends, we will have a more purple society. I want to teach 7 year olds to fall in love with accountable Aunt because I think too many parents are not teaching accountability. And if little Johnny in New York City falls in love with a countable aunt and has a countable aunt pajamas when he's 19, he may be like, accountability is cool. And once he understands what accountability means, I believe accountability literally leads to happiness. I believe that. I really believe that in the soul of my life. And so. Which is different than beating yourself up, right? Accountability doesn't mean shitting on yourself. My biggest issue in the world actually more than loving accountability. I'm so sad that so many of you are so hard on yourself.
- [64:52]
Phoebe
I wish social media is a highlight reel of what you see. Even my social media is a complete highlight reel. I don't post when the business isn't doing well. I don't post when we have, you know, our. We post now our features where we invite 40 women to the office to give feedback.
- [65:03]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I get it.
- [65:04]
Phoebe
But oh, man, after that first feedback dinner, we were not posting that. The entire thing crashed and we had 40 women there.
- [65:09]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I get it.
- [65:09]
Phoebe
And it was so bad that they, like, left.
- [65:12]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I get it.
- [65:12]
Phoebe
I had to ask people to leave because it was so bad. And me and Sophia literally locked ourselves in a bathroom. It was awful. You had to redo everything.
- [65:18]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes, but I don't post that. Yes, but I would say that's fine, comma, taking it a different angle if social media is bringing you down. Right. The first point you made. Well, this is. Why do you think I wanna make Accountable Ant so popular? Delete it. Like, this is real talk right now. This is actually very exciting. And by the way, when I do podcasts like this, right now, I'm zeroing in. I'm hoping one girl's on the treadmill listening. And I get so obsessed when I'm on a podcast that I'm doing it for one person. If I can get one person to do what I'm about to say, it will change the course of their actual life. I believe that. Which is the following. When you get out of saying it's social media's fault, it's Instagram's fault. Right? And you say, hey, if I can feel myself getting down because all I'm seeing is highlights on Instagram and that makes me feel insecure. Oh my God, I can actually delete It.
- [66:08]
Phoebe
Here's my excuse.
- [66:09]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Please.
- [66:09]
Phoebe
We do need it for business. If I wasn't working on a company where attention matters in our community so much and I. I get it.
- [66:19]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I get it.
- [66:19]
Phoebe
Talking to girls who have bought like, I get it. The load time's too long. That's like important for me.
- [66:24]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I agree. By the way, you're talking to the human on earth. The human who is most used social in the last 20 years for business and who does not use it for personal at all. I do not consume.
- [66:36]
Phoebe
How do you like, you don't consume.
- [66:38]
Sofia
Any media at all.
- [66:39]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I consume media at scale every day, not as a normal human. When I see someone doing something, I'm not like, oh, I'm fomoing and I suck. I'm like, why are they doing that? Why? I do it from a business lens.
- [66:53]
Sofia
Research.
- [66:54]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Research. I don't see. Like, I don't use it like a normal. In fact, if I was not in the business of business or marketing, I would be one of the humans that wouldn't have it. Not because I think it not 100% agree. Not that. By the way, I want to say something else because I'm countering the countdown. Not that I think it's bad. I'm just a person that isn't that inherently interested or I'm not nosy. I'm not a yenta. I never took pictures. My whole. I don't like pictures. Like, I just. It just. I like texting with my friends in my group Chat or like FaceTime. Like, I just wouldn't use it that much.
- [67:28]
Phoebe
I'm dating a guy who literally doesn't have Instagram. Like, he deletes it, of course. Amazing. It's the best thing ever.
- [67:33]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes.
- [67:34]
Phoebe
And this is completely new for me. I've never been with someone like that. And I'm like, okay, well, sit on down, bud. Let me show you the new video that we just dropped on the Steam account. I put my left titty into producers. So you're gonna sit here and you're gonna watch it. And he's like, okay. But I honestly, having him not be on social media is so great.
- [67:52]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah. I mean, A, he sounds handsome. B, this is what's gonna happen. People are gonna ebb and flow. Like, there was a whole societal push and I was there at that time where everybody was getting on it. Now people are understanding what's good and not good for them. Like, by the way, that's why I said earlier, before you jumped in, I wouldn't be on it, but I think it's the best if you know how to control it. This goes back. Is alcohol good or bad? Right. Is a very fun thing to think about. Don't forget this country, America had prohibition. We banned alcohol because we blamed the alcohol. And the question becomes, for some people, it's very bad. They become addicted to it, and it creates tough situations for other people. Right. Having one cocktail is an incredibly nice part of their life, and they decide it's good. I mean, forget about health benefits. Like, there's always, like, sugar. Should we ban sugar in America?
- [68:47]
Phoebe
What are your thoughts on weed?
- [68:49]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Me, personally, I think it's a natural plant. And the more homework I did on it back in the day, 20 years ago of, like, what it was like before and, like, how people used it as medicine and compared to pharmaceuticals. Again, my belief is in the human race. So most of the things I'm gonna tell you, I believe in education and accountability, not just education is cliche, right? We're like, we gotta educate about everything. I think the thing we've lost in the last 50 years is accountability.
- [69:17]
Phoebe
Cause I find honestly, like, for me personally, like, I prefer taking a gummy and going. Going to dinner than like having a cocktail or having two cocktails.
- [69:24]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Well, that's awesome.
- [69:25]
Phoebe
They're now saying the health benefits of it are better too.
- [69:27]
Gary Vaynerchuk
That's awesome. You're also talking to somebody who literally has never done any single drug. I've never smoked a cigarette, but that's because my mom got Super Nancy Reagan Ed out. Say no to drugs. And I grew up, don't forget, my mom grew up in the Soviet Union where everyone was an alcoholic. So in my family, for my life, it was so demonized. Drugs and alcohol. I do drink because I grew up in the wine business and fell in love with that. Had my dad not had a liquor store and sold food, I believe I'd be telling you right now that I don't do drugs or alcohol. I didn't drink a beer in high school or college. It was only when I got into the wine business and fell in love with the concept of collecting wine, which led me to tasting wine, which led me to actually being, like, very knowledgeable about wine. It's really fun. Yes, 100%. You got it. You got it.
- [70:10]
Phoebe
And we need the Gary Vee, like.
- [70:11]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You got it, you got it.
- [70:14]
Phoebe
Just run us down on the wine store.
- [70:15]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I will do it. And so what's. By the way, what's super fun is I did a thousand episodes of Wine Library tv. So for everybody at home. Cause for Context. I started a wine show on YouTube in 2006 where most of you guys were in diapers. And so I did a thousand episodes.
- [70:31]
Phoebe
That pull up scary.
- [70:32]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I'm aware I'm putting all 1000 into an LLM. There's going to be a GaryVee AI app that giving you wine recommendations on the spot when you take a photo of the wine list going out with my actual recommendation.
- [70:45]
Sofia
What I'm curious about, though, is you did. Well, A, that's extremely cool, but B, I thought it was so interesting that you did, what, for like a year and a half, all of these weekly episodes, and you were getting like 30, 50 views and you kept going like, how did you develop that muscle of consistency without seeing the progress?
- [71:03]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I'm not doing anything in my life for outside validation. Nothing. You would be. The more we get to know each other, the more you will be flabbergasted on my complete and utter detachment from Gary Vee and my business success. Everything in my life is good because I don't want to do anything for anybody besides myself and my family.
- [71:27]
Phoebe
Do you think that there's a level of wealth that you get to where you're like, okay, I've made it. This is enough for me.
- [71:31]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes. 100,000 a year. The only time I ever felt like something was enough for me was when I made 100,000 a year when I was like 33. That was the only point. And because that was as a kid, you grew up, that was the number. Now these poor kids are like, we gotta make 10 million a year. I'm like, jesus Christ. Like, I got very. Look, listen, I want to be very transparent here as we wrap up. I got very fortunate in DNA circumstances of growing up with nothing. I grew up with nothing. I was. When we moved to America, we lived in a studio apartment the size of literally. Not this, not this, this. And so I was born hungry. I wasn't fed. So it. Me and my home was so loving that it taught me that money had no variable on happiness. So, you know, I just got very fortunate of the role of the dice of DNA circumstances, motherhood, Jersey boy, you know, very lower middle class, like, everything shaped up for me to be who I am, which is why I'm so passionate to talk about these things with the hope that I can change some people's perspective. You know, it wasn't that. I wish you knew me at 19. You're not getting what I'm saying to you at 49. Because I made it. Making it. And you know, this because of the way you grew up. Money and fame do not change you. They expose you. Right. Like, I promise you kids, this is as good of a thing I've said on this podcast. I'm not chill now. Cause I. In fact, I would. In fact, actually, I don't know how politically correct this is these days. But the mo money, mo problems. I would argue that I was even more happy and more chill at 23, making 34,4000 a year. I was just what I got really lucky at. And what I wish on all of you out there right now, besides health is liking what you're doing at all times.
- [73:26]
Sofia
You know, we met Tyler, who said that.
- [73:27]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Schmidt. Yes.
- [73:28]
Sofia
Who said that he works with you. And he said that you are always working. And the first time he ever saw you take a break was when you were on your honeymoon.
- [73:35]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes.
- [73:36]
Sofia
So I wanted to ask you about work life balance.
- [73:37]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes.
- [73:38]
Sofia
What's your advice to people on that?
- [73:40]
Gary Vaynerchuk
That it's a personal thing. I don't think me working all the time is right. It's right for me because I would rather be working at 7pm than golfing, than skiing, than watching a movie. I like it so much. It is my actual hobby. So don't let someone else's opinion on work life balance. What is work life balance is nine to five, Monday through Friday, right? Is it nine to six? Is it eight weeks making? Is it one? Like, every one of us room are gonna have a different view. Plus it changes as you go through your life today. You guys are in it right now. We love it. Of course. That's what I'm saying. You're in it. But then you're gonna meet the handsome guy who's not on Instagram. It might lead to something. Your life's gonna evolve, right? Things are gonna happen. You're gonna have things happen in your life. Your world will change. Right? And with that, things will change. You're allowed to change your mind. I actually fantasize a lot about. Because I do everything based on how I feel. I kind of weirdly fantasize a lot about waking up and having a weird. Just waking up and being like, I'm out, fully out. Because I almost. I don't think that's gonna happen knowing my DNA, but I secretly want it for conversation. Cause I'd love to tell the world of why I did that. Because I don't think they understand. It goes back to, are you like this now? No, I'm like this because, like, I made money because of how I was. Got it. Because I Didn't care about it. It made me better at it. Right. Like, let's talk about guys just for a second. Guys that are not scared of rejection, of coming up to a girl, do better. Right? Right. When you're not scared. This goes back to the overarching theme of a lot we've talked about from the, the beginning of where the world's going in technology, to posting, to not getting views. Basically, if you take this ingestion of all this audio and put it into AI and say, what's the macro theme of this podcast? It's eliminating fear.
- [75:45]
Sofia
I mean, I also think something that I was curious about for you is you obviously have invested all a lot of time and energy into building your personal brand and you also have this enormous business. How do you divide those two priorities?
- [75:59]
Gary Vaynerchuk
By ebony and flowing? I literally, we broke it down here. Sometimes it's 18 months of the companies and sometimes it's in 2017. It was Gary Vee heavy and sometimes it's balanced. And by how people 50, 50, 80, 20, 90, 10. By not overjudging myself. If I have the right ratio, unlike you two ladies, I was a terrible student. And so for me, I don't have student tendencies. I don't think there's a work. I think there's listening to yourself and self awareness and ebony flowing. And here's the big one. Back to the whole theme. All the mistakes, I don't dwell on them. They don't hurt me. In fact, I'm a little weird. I kind of like losing. I like. And not like the cliche, like, oh, I learned it's not losing. No, no. I like the humility that comes along with it. I like the punch in the face. I like the hey, Gary, you think you're fucking big shot? Like, fuck you. Here's the game. You were wrong. And I'm like, yeah, I was wrong. You know, like, I kind of, I'm in a good place with that shit.
- [77:00]
Sofia
But do you think that like, like, would your advice be to entrepreneurs to simultaneously build a personal brand and to.
- [77:07]
Phoebe
Work on the business?
- [77:08]
Sofia
Or like, how do you, like, how do you measure ROI of me having my personal brand is beneficial for the.
- [77:13]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Business or it's a distraction, you're too smart for that? The cat's out of the bag when I was saying this stuff. The answer is you do both. I actually don't see creator and entrepreneur as separate things anymore. I think it's all blending. And I'm saying you're too smart because this was my thesis 15 years ago and I got made fun of it. You guys are living on. How do you measure the roi? Did you see the cosmetics company that just sold for a billion dollars?
- [77:33]
Sofia
Yeah, 100%.
- [77:33]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Come on, what are we talking about? Right? Is Emma Chamberlain's copy. I mean, I don't honestly, I feel it's disrespective to your audience to even debate this. If this was a 90 year old audience or a 70 year old audience, I would talk about this for 20 minutes. Anybody who's under the age of 30 that does not understand that personal brand equity layered into a business has ROI in it is literally tone deaf.
- [77:58]
Phoebe
I want to steal something from you.
- [77:59]
Sofia
That you 100% agree. And I'm so glad I was like, I want to clip saying that.
- [78:03]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You got it.
- [78:04]
Sofia
Have the audience understand because it's really not a distraction. People want to like buy from people.
- [78:09]
Phoebe
I want to copy a quote that you said to me when we got drinks. I just want to say this because I thought this is the thing that like keeps living in my mind. As you said, as tech continues to advance, the only thing that's going to matter is the personal brand.
- [78:19]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Because brand, brand.
- [78:21]
Phoebe
Because. Is the brand brand? Because the tech is going to become stable commodities right now. Now, it took us a year to build what Fiat is today.
- [78:28]
Gary Vaynerchuk
There's still a lot of work to do, to be honest. Of course, you're right.
- [78:32]
Phoebe
The only thing that matters is the distribution power. The fact that people want to install it because it says something about who they are. For that girl who's living in Brooklyn who likes to thrift, for the girl on the Upper east side who's really into her clothes and her shoes and her jewelry. If you feel like you're a stylish woman, you want to install her app because it says something intrinsically about who.
- [78:50]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You are as a person. That's the only thing that matters to start.
- [78:53]
Sofia
Yes.
- [78:54]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And then the second part that matters, as you know, is, is it better than the other options?
- [78:58]
Phoebe
Exactly. But tech is going to become stable.
- [79:00]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I believe that is true. Especially in a mature AI world. That's right.
- [79:04]
Phoebe
Data is going to be important, but yeah, the tech.
- [79:06]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I actually would argue data is commoditized too. I really believe that, like I can get to your customer without your data.
- [79:13]
Phoebe
I agree with that. But let's say you're like a healthcare, like your diagnostics tool for breast cancer.
- [79:19]
Gary Vaynerchuk
If you have a concept. Yes, yes, that's fair. I mean, look, any absolute statement like I just made always is gonna have some counter in the scheme of things data is stunningly. Come on. First party data did not end up being the moat that everybody predicted it would be because there's too many companies that have too much scaled first party data. And more importantly, what happens when you have first party data, you then still have to communicate to the consumer. So if you're overlaid in your 1p data, but you're running the ads on Facebook and Facebook has unlimited data for me to get to that same Upper east side girl and thrift girl in Brooklyn. What the fuck was the punchline? Yeah, got it. The same thing's gonna happen with tech.
- [79:58]
Sofia
Well, I did want to ask because I know you. You said your little like AI summary. Like, whatever. I think I would love to like ask a question that you think could wrap this on. Like, what is the main takeaway that you, you would want the audience to get from this podcast?
- [80:10]
Gary Vaynerchuk
That every single person that's listening right now is literally living in the greatest era of humanity. And the opportunity is uncomfortable and you should be concerned and thoughtful, but please do not let it cripple you from the truth that the opportunity is. The situation of social at scale with AI emerging and about to hit scale at the same time is literally and actually the greatest thing that has ever happened to a 15 to 35 year old living at that time. With this stuff in place, what should they do? They should A, first, which is the point I'm making, believe what I'm saying. Like first they have to ask themselves, do they think I'm full of shit or do they actually see what I see? And then B, they should lean into self awareness and passion. You know, one thing I like about what you guys are doing, hence what has brought me to this seat today, is that I think you like what you're making. You're not just chasing where you think the money is. And I think you can build much better things for yourself, whether you're being an entrepreneur or whether you're picking a job or whether you're deciding to be a stay at home dad. Like, I don't know, like everything's allowed. But this is the time of optionality. Like you should first start. You know, you guys are lucky. The generation above you and even you guys actually. But we're starting to chip away at the fact that at 22 you have to have your whole life figured out and you have to be a grownup on the day after your college graduation. 22 to 30 is when you should do the highest risk shit in your life. Cause you can live on nothing. Cause you can live with 7 fucking 22 year olds if you want. Right. You have no responsibilities. You're not worried about paying your mortgage for your children to go to. This is so. So my advice in the wrap up is this is a huge time of opportunity. Start with things that actually get you going, your passions and understand why social plus AI can create everything you want.
- [82:07]
Sofia
Well, I learned a lot.
- [82:08]
Gary Vaynerchuk
We're gonna be making a lot of.
- [82:10]
Sofia
Changes, a lot of things that we're doing.
- [82:12]
Phoebe
Can we step down and just go through our marketing stuff and get you to roast it and tell us what to do?
- [82:17]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah. And back to the point of this. Like, not even roast it. Like, to your. You know, it's funny. Like, we've gotten to, you know, like. Cause it's not roasting. Cause notice how we even talked about the burqa thing. I didn't roast it. I dissected it. Of like, why and what. Like, I'm making a point here. It's my purple point. I want to get out of, you know, red and blue land. Like, and words matter, you know, like, I would never roast it. I'm aware that I've been doing marketing for 35 years and have, like, I should.
- [82:48]
Phoebe
We want your expertise.
- [82:49]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Correct. You know what I mean? And I also wanna understand your psychology. Notice how when we did the burka thing, I'm like, why? And like, hey, did you contemplate? And hey, that was later, like, and that's the level in general, to be honest. That's another thing that we just need a lot more in society, less quick and more thoughtful, you know, like, I didn't go like, oh, no way. It's more like, hey, why this, that? And so, yes, it would be my pleasure.
- [83:15]
Sofia
Ask good questions. Well, Gary Vee, thank you so much for coming on the Burnouts today.
- [83:19]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Thank you, ladies. Big announcement, as you probably heard at this point, because I had John from Stan on the show. I am an investor advisor to an incredible startup called Stan. Stan Store. I'm sending you right now to GaryVee.com, gary V E. Go check this out. We've done a GaryVee Stan store challenge, which actually has a weekly call with me. This is built for everyone who's been affected honestly by my overall content. The tech stack, all these features and the minimal costs per month that Stan Store has built is really the tool that was needed for this world that I envisioned when I wrote crush it. When I wrote crushing it. And this overall thing I'm thinking a lot about lately which is the individual empire, this creator entrepreneur slash entrepreneur creator economy that I think is gonna eat up the oxygen. Very honestly. The thing that so many of you want in your life, and the reason so many of you are not there yet, is you've got the strategy for me. You've got the ambition within yourself, but you don't have the tools for you to fully maximize it. And I believe you can find that at Stan Store. Stan Store. But specifically, I want you to sign up for it through my challenge, because I want to get access with you. And plus, there's a bunch of cool things. So if you want to go see those cool things, go to garyvee.com Stan S T A N.