The Future of Marketing With AI and Attention | Adweek Interview

Summary

Podcast Summary: The GaryVee Audio Experience

Episode: The Future of Marketing With AI and Attention | Adweek Interview

Host: Gary Vaynerchuk
Date: September 5, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features an insightful conversation between Gary Vaynerchuk and an Adweek moderator, focusing on the transformative impact of artificial intelligence (AI) on marketing, media, and society at large. Drawing on parallels from past technological shifts—like the rise and fall of NFTs and the emergence of blockchain—Gary discusses the fears, promises, and practical impacts of AI. The conversation explores shifts in consumer behavior, societal perceptions of authenticity, the ongoing evolution of art and content creation, and the challenges brands face navigating generative AI.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Historical Lessons: NFTs, Blockchain, and Shifting Hype Cycles

• NFT Lessons as a Lens for AI:
  Gary draws comparisons between the hype around NFTs and the current buzz about AI, emphasizing the tendency of people to focus on headlines rather than substance.
  • "So much of our biggest point of view was that Metaverse wasn't real..." (01:00)
• Technological Layers:
  NFTs were a form factor on top of blockchain technology driven by speculation, while AI is a fundamental, broad-scope change, likened to "oxygen" for its pervasive potential.
  • "AI is oxygen. It's such a profound, overwhelming technology." (02:14)
• Blockchain’s Future Relevance:
  With the rise of AI-generated content and deepfakes, blockchain’s role in verifying authenticity will be critical.
  • "That providence moment of truth is about to come very handy because AI is about to make a lot of fake stuff." (04:17)

2. Current Consumer Attitudes and Behavioral Shifts

• AI’s Largest Marketing Impact (So Far):
  • Major influence is through social algorithms (e.g., TikTok, Instagram For You pages).
    "The most significant AI that our industry is feeling is in that environment now to consumer." (02:58)
• Fear and Resistance:
  • Societal anxiety about AI is compared to the initial demonization of electricity. "Electricity was like incredibly demonized when it was first available to people. The most common belief at the time was there was demons in it." (03:21)
• The Rise of New Search Behaviors:
  • Young people are abandoning traditional search engines for AI-based tools.
    "My 37 year old brother ... doesn't use search anymore at all. 100% of his search behavior is now chatgpt or perplexity." (03:46)
  • Future generations may never know the concept of a "search engine," much like the Yellow Pages. "I think you're gonna have an entire generation of gen Alpha ... that is going to potentially live in a world where they don't even know what a search engine is." (04:13)

3. Authenticity, Deepfakes, and Blockchain Verification

• Verifying Reality in a Synthetic Age:
  • The spread of deepfakes will make video evidence untrustworthy, and blockchain verification will become essential. "We will go from everybody here sees any video they believe it's 100% true to in 8 to 10 years everybody here seeing a video and not believing it's true." (07:05)
• NFTs Beyond Collectibles:
  • Future NFTs may serve as authenticated proof of origin for content, not just as digital collectibles. "One of the most important use cases ... is going to be using the blockchain to put your content on." (06:28)

4. AI, Art, and Societal Acceptance

• Recurring Debates Over “Real Art”:
  • Similar resistance met new artistic mediums historically (e.g., canvas art was seen as "fake" compared to murals). "Do you know that everyone thought a canvas piece of art was not art hundreds of years ago?" (08:21)
• Coexistence of Human and AI Art:
  • Gary predicts both will flourish and argues that consumers will accept both, regardless of artists’ opinions. "There will be incredible room for originally created human art ... and incredible room for generative art. And the consumer will accept both." (09:13)
• Case Study: Music and Technological Evolution:
  • Gary believes technology expands, rather than replaces, what's valued in music and art (e.g., auto-tune, electronic music). "What about House EDM Music? What about DJs? Everybody told us electron. What about Auto 2? T-Pain ... I'm very bullish on AI." (10:06)
  • He even jokes about using AI to become a music artist despite lacking musical skills. "I will use AI to actually make hit music. I really believe that before I'm done." (10:53)

5. Privacy, Social Media, and Pendulum Swings

• Evolving Attitudes Toward Sharing:
  • People are growing weary of oversharing on social media; Gary notes he’s always separated private life from public content. "I've never shared a single thing about my personal life." (12:38)
• Value of Privacy:
  • Gary stresses the importance of maintaining boundaries, especially when considering children and relationships. "There's nothing more valuable. My relationships, my family." (12:42)

6. Brand Attitudes, Generative AI, and Industry Challenges

• Cautious Adoption Among Brands:
  • Most brands, according to Gary, are uncertain and slow to make commitments about the use of generative AI. "You don't need to make an official statement yet... let's take a beat." (14:00)
• Predicting the Inevitable:
  • Gary foresees that current stances (e.g., Dove refusing to use generated humans in ads) will eventually change out of competitive necessity. "I'm on the record that saying Dove at some point ... will make generative people." (15:15)
• Analogies to Food Styling & Truth in Advertising:
  • He critiques the idea that AI-generated food imagery crosses a new ethical line, noting food ads have long been unrealistic. "Every single commercial that Burger King shows the Whopper looks nothing like the Whoppers I get at Burger King." (16:13) "I would argue food styling and commercials is more fucking AI than AI." (16:27)
• Legal and Ethical Unknowns:
  • Uncertainty around copyright, trademark, and indemnity is a key reason for industry caution. "We want to really understand, like, where the content's coming from because we have to indemnify our clients." (17:48)

7. Fragmentation, Algorithms, and Community

• Content Fragmentation Myths:
  • Gary challenges the narrative that today's audience fragmentation is unprecedented, arguing that people have always sought their own niches, just now at a larger scale. "The fragmentation has existed forever. People always read the books they want and ... fewer options. The misnomer is we didn't take advantage of those fewer options." (19:23)
• From Mass Audiences to Micro-Communities:
  • He concedes the shift from mass events to niche interests creates loneliness and less common ground but believes curiosity and selflessness can counteract isolation. "Honestly, I do think loneliness is a big concern of mine at fragmentation at scale." (22:29)
• Marketing’s Challenge:
  • Traditional one-size-fits-all marketing is obsolete; relevance and personalization are the future. "The idea that you're going to make a 30 second commercial and you're going to pump it on television and it's going to work is fucking delusional." (23:02)
• AI-Driven Personalization:
  • Gary’s agency already uses AI to personalize digital ads, but emphasizes caution until legal clarity emerges. "We do believe it is still a trademark and copyright issue and we will not go full generative AI over production until there's more clarity." (23:36)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On AI’s Significance:
  "AI is oxygen. It's such a profound, overwhelming technology."
  — Gary Vaynerchuk (02:14)

• On Fear of New Technologies:
  "Electricity was like incredibly demonized when it was first available to people. The most common belief at the time was there was demons in it."
  — Gary Vaynerchuk (03:21)

• On Content Authenticity:
  "We will go from everybody here sees any video they believe it's 100% true to in 8 to 10 years everybody here seeing a video and not believing it's true."
  — Gary Vaynerchuk (07:05)

• On Art, Technology, and Acceptance:
  "One of my good strengths is history tells me the future."
  — Gary Vaynerchuk (08:44)

• On Brands’ Slowness to Change:
  "You don't need to make an official statement yet... let's take a beat."
  — Gary Vaynerchuk (14:00)

• On the Inevitable Embrace of AI:
  "On the record, I don't see any scenario that in 35 years [Dove] haven't done it because there'll be a competitive disadvantage to a business."
  — Gary Vaynerchuk (15:27)

• On Food Advertising:
  "I would argue food styling and commercials is more fucking AI than AI."
  — Gary Vaynerchuk (16:27)

• On Marketing’s Future:
  "The idea that you're going to make a 30 second commercial and you're going to pump it on television and it's going to work is fucking delusional."
  — Gary Vaynerchuk (23:02)

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Key Timestamps

• 01:00 – Parallels between NFT hype and AI buzz
• 02:14 – “AI is oxygen” and Madison Avenue vs. Silicon Valley
• 03:21 – Societal fear of AI compared to early fears of electricity
• 03:46 – Rise of AI search engines and the decline of traditional search
• 04:17 – Importance of blockchain in a world of deepfakes
• 06:28 – NFTs as “proof of origin” for content
• 07:05 – Trust in video evidence will collapse
• 08:21 – Historical resistance to new art forms
• 10:06 – Music, AI, and the perpetual evolution of creative fields
• 12:38 – Gary’s approach to privacy and public content
• 14:00 – Brands’ slow, cautious adaptation to generative AI
• 15:27 – Brands’ eventual need to embrace generative AI
• 16:27 – All food ads are already “faked”
• 17:48 – Copyright, trademark, and risk in generative content
• 19:23 – Content fragmentation: myth and reality
• 22:29 – Effects of niche fragmentation and loneliness
• 23:02 – “Delusional” old-school marketing tactics
• 23:36 – The future and limits of AI-personalized ads (legal hurdles)

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Tone and Final Thoughts

Gary Vaynerchuk’s tone throughout is lively, irreverent, historically informed, and optimistic—but clear-eyed about challenges. He weaves analogies and past lessons into predictions about AI, marketing, and culture, promoting openness to new technologies while stressing thoughtful, deliberate adoption.

For anyone navigating the shifting landscape of technology, media, and society, Gary’s advice is measured but forward-thinking: “Take a beat, stay curious, and remember history—because it often tells the future.”

Transcript

[Interviewer]

I haven't had a full conversation with anybody this week on the record about AI. I figure you are a good person to pick their brain on thinking AI and less about where it's going to go in marketing and advertising, but more how consumers are overall going to feel about it and general society. Because I think you have generally been smart about how you think about the future. And so I want to start with actually looking back for a moment. You know you made a huge bet on NFTs and eventually morphed it into Vayner 3.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yep.

[Interviewer]

As you saw the NFT market change and how society feels about Metaverse and all that change over time. So I'm curious what lessons you learned from that, knowing that AI is also the next big thing. And I know they're different because that platform and this is a society thing. They're major, potentially.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, it's a very smart question. No, no, I think you're right.

[Interviewer]

So similarities.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It's interesting, like if you look back at my content on web3 and specifically NFTs and you got to dissect it, I think the same thing's going to happen with AI and you're going to appreciate this in a world where everything is headline reading. Yeah, I'm sure that. Yeah. Actually, I'm curious. I need to start asking more journalists, like how they feel about most people just reading their headline and not their actual work. So let's break it down. I'll go backwards and I'll go forwards backwards. So much of our biggest point of view was that Metaverse wasn't real, that there was nobody actually there that did day trading attention. Blockchain was a profound technology. I think Blockchain's relationship with AI and deepfake videos is gonna be a really interesting conversation over the next 10 years. 3. My biggest point of view is that 99% of NFTs were gonna go to zero and that the 1% would be meaningful collectibles like trading cards and comic books and sneakers. Biggest learnings that I apply to where we're going to go with AI. One, they are different because the NFT was a form, an individual form factor on top of a technology.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That was also based on collectible speculation, which created so much of the radical ups of daos.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

AI is oxygen. It's such a profound, overwhelming technology. But I think. I think the parallels will be similar for Madison Avenue. I think the biggest observation is that Madison Avenue is very different than Silicon Valley. So I think the depth of conversation at AI at the conference has been really interesting. It's by far the buzziest word.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think back to what I focus on, which is about like today, I think the biggest AI conversation that I'm sh. You know what I was surprised about? Even though I, you know, it was funny you said earlier I wasn't surprised but I was surprised. I'm, I, I'm not surprised, but I'm surprised. The biggest AI conversation currently in marketing is the algorithms of the for you pages of all these social networks.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The most significant AI that our industry is feeling is in that environment now to consumer.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

People are scared of it. There's so much fear of like I'm going to lose my job. This is bad. The robots are going to kill us. So there'll be a sector that I think will be similar to electricity when it first came out.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Electricity was like incredibly demonized when it was first available to people. The most common belief at the time was there was demons in it. And so you should still use candles. Yeah. Cool. Right?

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Do you know that, have you ever heard Google it or ChatGPT it? Back to the point. Perplexity it or perplexity it? So I think that's what's, that's my historical comp that I'm feeling. People are very, very worried about it.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think you'll have a group of that. I think we're already seeing profound, profound consumer changes. So I hate using a focus group of one but boy did it capture my attention. My 37 year old brother and co founder of Vayner who runs our sports agency now he doesn't use search anymore at all. 100% of his search behavior is not chatgpt or perplexity or things of that nature. So I think you're gonna have an entire generation of gen Alpha and young gen Z that is going to like potentially, probably gen Alpha potentially live in a world where they don't even know what a search engine is. The way that. How old are you?

[Interviewer]

30 size.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Did you ever use a Yellow Pages? Yeah.

[Moderator]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You caught it a little bit. I'm a 30. No, but you're right. No, no, no. But you're, you know, as you know if you have, if you have a younger s Ling under 30, like no shot. There's people 25 that don't even know when I use the reference. They don't even know. So I think it's going to be the classic thing. I do think the I view that so NFTs was a build on top of a big technology known as blockchain. And that providence moment of truth is about to come very handy because AI is about to make a lot of fake stuff. There's already videos of me on the Internet, of me saying things in my voice that I didn't say. So providence on the blockchain is going to actually become pretty powerful. I think AI overall though is far bigger than people realize. And so what do I think? I think you'll have some early users that are going to get a lot of value out of it. You're going to have 50 to 70% incumbents that are going to demonize it or demonize it because they can't make money on it, or demonize it because they're scared of it. This one isn't going to be fatty like NFTs. This one is going to slow build like social media.

[Moderator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

I'm in that very unique age range where I started high school where nobody had a phone. I finished high school, everybody had a flip phone, started college, maybe a few people had a smartphone. And by the time I finished college.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'm here one day. Yeah, makes sense. Yeah, it's a fun and groove.

[Interviewer]

And eight years went from phone, personal phone, wasn't a thing unless you were an adult to the supercomputer. You had the iPhone, whatever you needed in your pocket. But I want to ask about your point about blockchain. Are you pointing out blockchain and deepfakes? From the standpoint of blockchain, can you track how something. The progress of something. So we'll be able to verify something accurate based on every video, Every video.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I make, I'm going to put, I'm going to make an NFT, a non fungible token. The way everyone knows NFTs right now is a collectible and the way they know it right this second is a collectible. That was like fatty. Yeah, but NFTs aren't beanie babies. In individual projects at NFT Land are beanie babies. Individual NFTs are stuffed animals. They will be forever. One of the most important use cases I think in the next decade of NFTs is going to be using the blockchain to put your content on. To say all the content that I make about me is here first, then I'm putting it on the Internet. So anything that you see that you think is from me, you better go see the providence because this is somebody else manipulating what I'm saying. We've lived in 100 years of believing every video that we've seen is true. We're about to go. Just your eight year analogy. Let me use it now as a, as a build. We will go from everybody here sees any video they believe it's 100% true to an 8 to 10 years everybody here seeing a video and not believing it's true.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That is societally it is until you say wait a minute or the blockchain and then truth. So I agree with you. In the short term it's like whoa.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But this is why I'm kind of very fascinated by the blockchain.

[Moderator]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I've been pleasantly surprised. There has been a ton of deep dates around the election yet. I mean, I assume we are eventually going to get there, but I guess maybe we're too far away from November. But. Yeah. I'm curious how you see the perception of how societal's perception of generative AI is going to change. Because I think we already saw the first bit of it with the Apple ad where even though it wasn't toing AI, you know, it was crushing art. And I think people view AI as we don't want it to replace art. So do you. Are you optimistic that people are going to put up a fight and save arts and not give in to just. Well, anybody can create any kind of content using no AI and that's it?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No. Do you know that everyone thought a canvas piece of art was not art hundreds of years ago? That if you did not do art on a actual building wall, that that wasn't real art. There's an incredible fight that art on canvas was fake art. One of my good strengths is history tells me the future. This is my second. Cool. Hmm.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Okay. And you can see how my brain works a little bit. And this is what I see. New things like this. I'm like, let me get educated. It's not like I know all this stuff. You know, I do the research right. And then it becomes part of my life. So I think it's. I think this industry actually this is a good parallel to the overall industry. And it's the answer to your question. I believe one of the biggest shortcomings of our industry is that we like or not. And sure. The answer to your question is and yeah, there will be incredible room for originally created human art.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

There will be incredible room for generative art.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And the consumer will accept both. You know why? Because they're already consuming both. They're already accepting both.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The. In this, the world is not the opinions of the artists that this meant.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The opinion is of the 8 billion people and how they interact with the art.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So to that point, do you. I mean, when some like. Let's just talk music with AI, music is going to become even easier for anybody to figure out how to make. Do you see society pushing in a way where someone who can play a violin at a high skill is going to get pushed out for somebody who can create whatever on their laptop, on their phone, using AI? Or do you still see a future in which both of those are going to be equally valued and that we're going to really fight hard to protect human made art?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think both will happen. What about House EDM Music? What about DJs?

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I mean, everybody told us electron. What about Auto 2?

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

T pain. Fucking had every hit song for a three year window. I'm very bullish on Ant. I think, to your point, like, I'm thinking about becoming a music artist. I talk in the way that would work really well for music. I'm very, you know, I'm good for interviews. Right. Like, I know it's how my brain works. Analogies, snippets, headlines. I think I can be good at music. One problem. I can't sing for shit. I'm not musical.

[Interviewer]

I got that in common with you and me. I could play mean saxophone. Can't sing, can you? Well, that tune is.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Can you?

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's pretty cool. So I got nothing.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Other than I think I can write hooks and have bars and I think I will use AI to actually make hit music. I really believe that before I'm done. And so will some people say like, what the fuck? Fucking Gary Vee's now. Of course they will. I could. 93% will. 7% will say like the same thing, you know. Is Avicii good? Some people think Avicii's the best. Other people think that he just took other people's shit. So is Andy Warhol the best? At the time, he was the worst. Now we think he's the best. Some people think he's the best something. And so I really. I'll go back to my. And I think that. And let's talk about technology. I couldn't believe more in social and the phone. Do I believe that now that we've had 15 years of it, that a lot of people enjoy putting their phone in a safe for a week and not being on a phone? I sure do. It's pendulum swings.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Technology in, technology out, you know, and so this, you know, look at fashion.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Every 20, 30 years, are we supposed to wear tight jeans or loose Jeans.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know, like, so that's what I. I think that's what's gonna happen with music and entertainment.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I mean, I think we've seen it seem to an extent with social media. I mean, you know, if you would have told me 10 years ago that by 2024, I would have pretty much given up sharing any part of my life on social, which is a thing that a lot of people are starting to buy into. I think you. I would have said you're crazy. But I think we eventually also just grew tired of sharing our lives. Gone so late.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I. I lived the life the whole time. People are very confused when they. I don't think people realize how I played it. I've never shared a single thing about my personal life.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I. It makes so much sense to me. Why would I want to give up my privacy?

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

There's nothing more valuable.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

My relationships, my family. I'm one of the most prolific content producers of the last 15 years, with zero of it being about my personal life. So I understand that's. I saw that coming from a mile away.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Putting my children, my content. What if they don't want it?

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Putting my relationship so that the world. Didn't anybody see what they do to Brad and Angelina, like, why are you giving the world. Obviously not. We're not all famous. But if you're. By the way, when your life is small, when 30, 40 people, your relatives and your friends are your world, their judgment on your relationship is powerful.

[Moderator]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So let's start to bring this a little back to marketing.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Let's do it.

[Interviewer]

When you talk with your clients and brands in general, have you started to see brands figure out where the line is on where they want to use Gen AI?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

One more time, my friend.

[Interviewer]

Have the brands. Your clients started to draw a line in terms of where the line is on Gen AI. So, for example, Dove. Dove has said, we'll use Gen AI, but we will never generate a human.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Got it? Got it. No, we. We think that our recommendation to our clients is don't jump out too fast.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That would be like, there was. We had. There was clients buried in history now that said they would never use influencers. They only believe in real celebrities. No, we've. We've our conversations with clients. My conversations with clients are very heavily predicated on the following, which is, you don't need to make an official statement yet. We're like, this is very profound technology. Many of the Bill Gates said the web was a fad. He's a Smart man. You don't. A little bit, you know, you don't need to be out in front, you know, like, you know, like, let's, like, let's take a beat. And so that has been our recommendation and I think that's the right thing. Like, it's early. Ready for this? I'm on the record that saying Dove at some point in its consumer brand journey will make generative people. Because not that I believe that anyone at Unilever is a hypocrite or is stupid or is wrong, but in 27 years when it's a different regime and generative AI, human content is incredibly important. I don't think that Dove is going to want to give up market share, you know, so, like, I'm sure it's. And by the way, I know that it's well intended. It actually comes. You know, I think most things are well intended. Like eighth place trophies were incredibly well intended. But I think looking at history, it's not going to be viewed as a positive thing for kid development. Dove talking about real beauty, that's a beautiful. Like, it comes from such a good place. On the record, I don't see any scenario that in 35 years they haven't done it because there'll be a competitive disadvantage to a business.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I mean, even. Even in instances where. So I was talking to the CEO of or is. He was CEO okrp. And now he's part of frankly okrp. And he said, you know, I have restaurant clients who don't let US use Gen AI for anything except the food, 100%. Because they, their chefs, they only want to show things their chefs can actually make. And even if they use Gen AI to perfection, nobody made that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Let me, let me take the counterpoint.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Every single commercial that Burger King shows the Whopper looks nothing like the Whoppers I get at Burger King.

[Interviewer]

That's a good point.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Food styling is a thing.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No shit. I would argue food styling and commercials is more fucking AI than AI.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I haven't seen a fucking Whopper in my life that looks like the ones on tv.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Do you have a sense with brands that they even have their heads wrapped around Gen AI that? Well, because I was talking to Sir John Peggerty earlier today and I asked him pretty much the same question of, you know, are, have you seen brands draw the line? And he goes, well, no. I mean, it's. It's so early days that most of them, I think he said, can't fucking wrap their head around it or don't I forget exactly what he said, but, you know, he basically said they don't know what they're doing.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

As someone. As someone irresponsible for that. As someone who came into this industry and has been in and out for 15 years, I'm so glad that sir said that because I've always liked him a lot, actually. I always have. He's a smart guy and he's right. That's absolutely my take. I said, I think earlier, Madison Avenue versus Silicon Valley, like, with all due respect, and this is an incredible community. Deep technology knowledge is not what's happening here. This is sales and marketing. And so, yeah, no, I don't think they have their heads wrapped around it. And by the way, there's a lot to get through with copyright and trademark law.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

This is probably one of the more conservative stances we've taken as an organization. We want to really understand, like, where the content's coming from because we have to indemnify our clients. So I'm like, fucking like, are you kidding me? I'm not looking to battle Disney if they claim that the elephant that was made from this was inspired by the Dumbo ip.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So we got a little ways to go. I think he's right. I think it's early again, especially after four glasses of rose A can. People like to pontificate about their knowledge about AI. It's not. This is not the epicenter of AI. This is an industry that will be affected by the epicenter, which is the technology sector.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You brought up algorithms earlier, and I know we've talked a lot about Gen AI, but it with algorithms. It's also a very good point because we've seen how quickly society has fractured, how content has fractured in terms of audience. My TikTok feed is going to be drastically different than yours, drastically different than Harriet's. And so we're losing a sense of community because we're slowly growing into. I'm fans of these people. You're fans of these people.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I would.

[Interviewer]

You have no idea.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I would argue that that is a false POV in this society right now. Okay, let's take it back. Pre social media, you chose to watch Fox and I chose to watch cnn. You chose to read the New York Times, and I chose to read.

[Interviewer]

But the options were much fewer. Yeah, there's a million different influencers, and 72 may end up in my feed. And you might have two of the same ones just because the options were fewer.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Do you know what the average amount of channels people watched when they had 30, 36 channels to choose from. In prime cable era in the 80s, three, the options were fewer. But I still didn't watch food tv. I watched ESPN and I watched when the jets highlights were on and I turned off when the Broncos highlights were on. I think that this is a demonization of modern technology. That is a misnomer of human behavior. The fragmentation has existed forever. People always read the books they want and read the newspapers and watch the TV and listen to the radio. Yes. To your point. Absolutely. On fewer options. The misnomer is we didn't take advantage of those fewer options.

[Interviewer]

I'm not great on that. Point's not landing for me.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Please.

[Interviewer]

You know, if back in say the 90s or 80s, when you had fewer options and cable two CVs first exploding, we saw amount of people who watch a program far higher than today. So you went into the office.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That is correct.

[Interviewer]

You likely had a number of people who you could talk to about something. And so what I'm saying is more. It's fragmented so much that I could go in the office. And there's no guarantee that any.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That I'm a buyer on that. I'm a buyer on. That's what I was. I'm a full buyer that. But I would say the nuance there is that the genre of it would be within the same realm. Meaning you may know of a hip hop artist that's emerging that I don't know, but we may both like hip hop.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Right. And I would actually say the discoverability of that game is real. But to your point, the extreme fragmentation is well taken and I'm a very big believer in that. I don't think it's focus groups of one, but we've definitely, to your point, gone to smaller groups of interests, but the color. And so I think we're gonna find out what that all means. To your point, we all watched MASH.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Now we all watch humor in 87 pieces of MASH that add up to one MASH.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And to your point that I think you're making is that has the potential to make us not be as connected.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And I think that's real.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I know I get excited when my wife shares a tick tock that I've already seen because it's like almost a shared experience of like, oh, I've already.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Seen this and I can laugh at this already. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Where's I gonna go from there? So do you see. Do you see a tipping point in which at some point we are all driven back to maybe More communal, I hope.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think so, yeah. Yeah, I think so. I don't think it, but I don't think in the short term at all. You're 36.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It, you know, back to like guessing this, I definitely don't know, but if I, if I had to bet the farm, you're like, Gary, I'm sorry, you have to bet.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

When you're 68. I think we're in the. Actually I think we're still in the very beginning of fragmentation at scale.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Honestly, I do think loneliness is a big concern of mine. At fragmentation at scale. Yeah, absolutely. I believe that there is absolute early indicators to that. But I also think that requires human accountability to be more multi dimensional, like to be more selfless, not selfish. I have my interests, but let me be curious and selfless and open to my friends interests so that we connect. I'm very fascinated by this combo and I spent a lot of time thinking about this. It's actually by the way, why I think everyone has marketing wrong. The idea that you're going to make a 30 second commercial and you're going to pump it on television and it's going to work is fucking delusional. In the truth of the world.

[Moderator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Final question, because we're pretty much at. Time here is just, you know, with, with streaming TV and the ability to really understand who that person is you're showing. Have you guys begun thinking about using AI to create God knows how many versions of that ad to show each person the way you're already doing with your vaping volume, social and everything?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes, we have, but we do believe it is still a trademark and copyright issue and we will not go full generative AI over production until there's more clap. This goes back to why I think Dove is well intended but a little premature. It's early and we have a lot of things to figure out.