This Is the Easiest Side Hustle You’re Not Doing Yet | GVAE w/ David Rawlinson: CEO of QVC Group

Summary

Podcast Summary: The GaryVee Audio Experience

Episode: This Is the Easiest Side Hustle You’re Not Doing Yet | GVAE w/ David Rawlinson: CEO of QVC Group
Release Date: June 24, 2025
Host: Gary Vaynerchuk
Guest: David Rawlinson, CEO of QVC Group

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of The GaryVee Audio Experience, Gary Vaynerchuk sits down with David Rawlinson, the CEO of QVC Group. They delve into the transformative landscape of digital marketing, the burgeoning field of live social shopping, and how QVC is poised to revolutionize retail through strategic partnerships and innovative approaches.

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The Revolution in Digital Marketing and Live Social Shopping

David Rawlinson opens the discussion by highlighting a significant shift in digital marketing dynamics:

"This is going to be a big revolution in how you think about digital marketing. When you look at conversion rates in China for live streams, you see 10, 15, 20, sometimes 30% conversion as opposed to E-commerce in the United States where you usually see 2 to 5% conversion."
[00:00]

Rawlinson attributes the higher conversion rates in China to the sophisticated data utilization by social media companies, enabling targeted live streams that boost purchase likelihood.

Gary Vaynerchuk emphasizes the human element in this transformation:

"Plus, people like to buy from humans."
[00:27]

He underscores the shift from impersonal banner ads to interactive, human-driven live shopping experiences, enhancing consumer trust and engagement.

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QVC Group’s Strategic Pivot to Live Social Shopping

David Rawlinson provides an overview of QVC’s evolution:

"We were the original TV televised, the original combination of entertainment and shopping. We came up through linear television and cable and really invented impulse buying."
[00:48]

He outlines QVC Group’s recent strategic pivot, including rebranding to QVC Group with the tagline “Live Social Shopping Company”, and forming a critical partnership with TikTok Shop. This collaboration aims to launch a 24/7 live shopping program, leveraging TikTok’s massive user base and expertise.

Gary Vaynerchuk inquires about the competitive landscape:

"Are you surprised that Meta has not put out a harder push in Q1, Q2 of this year...?"
[03:17]

Rawlinson responds by praising TikTok’s earlier engagement and deeper conviction in social shopping, citing their connection to the Chinese market as a key advantage.

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Comparative Conversion Rates: China vs. United States

A pivotal moment in the conversation involves the stark difference in conversion rates between China and the U.S.:

"Social shopping in China is half a trillion dollars. Just social shopping in China is larger than a lot of the GDP of a lot of economies around the world."
[03:37]

Gary Vaynerchuk reiterates the enormity of this market:

"Half. Correct."
[03:41]

Rawlinson adds perspective on the growth trajectory in the U.S.:

"The best estimate suggests it's about 70 billion a day. It'll be 140 billion in less than five years."
[04:00]

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Building a Comprehensive Value Proposition

David Rawlinson discusses QVC’s integrated approach, combining content creation with robust merchandising and supply chain capabilities:

"You need the eyeballs. You need the personalities who will bring those eyeballs in. And then they have to be matched to the right product."
[07:00]

He emphasizes QVC’s strength in handling 400,000 products annually, shipping 200 million boxes, and managing customer service and returns—elements often overlooked in social shopping ventures.

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The Human Connection and Commerce Tainment

Gary Vaynerchuk introduces the concept of “commerce tainment”, merging commerce with entertainment to create a joyful shopping experience:

"When you are entertained, you are accustomed to pay for that. This commerce tainment thing just back to what you were talking about."
[12:00]

Rawlinson agrees, linking it to the growing loneliness in American society and the desire for genuine human connection through digital platforms:

"People have fewer friendships, fewer marriages, fewer best friends... if you're creating a real connection on that social platform, people want to contribute, they want to interact."
[13:30]

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Expanding Demographics and Influencer Partnerships

Rawlinson highlights QVC’s focus on a core demographic—women in their 30s to 50s—while also expanding through partnerships with 85,000 influencers:

"We are actively working with influencers who are bringing their own audiences. So we will expand naturally as part of this strategy."
[17:12]

Gary Vaynerchuk sees vast potential in this approach, encouraging aspiring influencers to pivot towards social commerce for more substantial earnings:

"Millions of people are aiming to be an influencer but do not have the talent... If they took their same talents and decided to go all in on live shopping, I think they make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year."
[25:01]

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Future of Retail: Streaming and Beyond

David Rawlinson draws parallels between the decline of linear television and the rise of streaming, anticipating a similar disruption in retail:

"This year will probably be the first year that streaming viewership will surpass linear television viewership... The same thing is going to happen in retail."
[21:32]

He points to QVC’s streaming services—QVC Plus and HSN Plus—which have seen their monthly active users double year over year, indicating robust growth and user engagement.

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Influencer Roles and Direct Monetization

Gary Vaynerchuk discusses the evolving role of influencers within the live social shopping ecosystem:

"Millions of people that potentially could hear this are aiming to be an influencer but do not have the talent. This has to be said. But if they pivoted to be a social commerce person... They make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year."
[25:01]

David Rawlinson concurs, noting that direct monetization through social commerce offers a more sustainable and lucrative pathway compared to traditional influencer marketing.

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Conclusion

The conversation between Gary Vaynerchuk and David Rawlinson paints a compelling picture of the future of retail and digital marketing. By leveraging live social shopping, QVC Group is set to transform the shopping experience, making it more interactive, human-centric, and efficient. Their strategic partnerships, especially with TikTok Shop, position them at the forefront of this revolution, promising exciting developments in the years to come.

Notable Quotes:

• David Rawlinson [00:00]: "This is going to be a big revolution in how you think about digital marketing."
• Gary Vaynerchuk [00:27]: "Plus, people like to buy from humans."
• David Rawlinson [03:37]: "Social shopping in China is half a trillion dollars."
• Gary Vaynerchuk [12:00]: "This commerce tainment thing just back to what you were talking about."
• Gary Vaynerchuk [25:01]: "If they took their same talents and decided to go all in on live shopping, I think they make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year."
• David Rawlinson [21:32]: "The same thing is going to happen in retail."

This episode is a must-listen for entrepreneurs, marketers, and anyone interested in the future of retail and digital commerce.

Transcript

[David Rawlinson]

This is going to be a big revolution in how you think about digital marketing. When you look at conversion rates in China for live streams, you see 10, 15, 20, sometimes 30% conversion as opposed to E commerce in the United States where you usually see 2 to 5% conversion. Why? Because the social media companies know so much more about you, they can drop you in the live stream where your conversion rate's likely to be really high.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Plus, people like to buy from humans.

[David Rawlinson]

And People like to buy from humans.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

People like to buy from humans. And now what? QVC didn't have it that now you have that you're doing these partnerships. Wait, I can ask the person a question. They might answer it or somebody else might ask us some versus a banner ad versus a image that sends me to a landing page. I mean, it is a different game.

[David Rawlinson]

So I'm David Rawlinson. I'm CEO of the QVC Group. I've been in the position about three years. We were the original TV televised, the original combination of entertainment and shopping. We came up through linear television and cable and really invented impulse buying. And we think, like I think you think that we are on the edge of one of the biggest transformations of retail in a couple of decades, maybe the biggest since the Internet.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

By the way, I genuinely believe. Sorry to interrupt.

[David Rawlinson]

No, you're good.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But I launched an E commerce wine website, wine retail site in 1997. And the second I started to understand what Amazon was doing in 95, I was like, this is it.

[David Rawlinson]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I actually convinced my father not to open a second liquor store. That's how much I believed that web and E commerce would work. And nothing, nothing has happened since. That is going to transform the retail landscape more than what we're about to talk about.

[David Rawlinson]

Yeah, 100%.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And that's 30 years now.

[David Rawlinson]

I think that's right. And I think it's long overdue. It's time. It's a. It's a great idea. People have been talking about this for a long time now. They've been waiting for it. I think you can finally see it finally actually starting to break at scale. And so I think the next couple of years are going to be really exciting. So we've just pivoted. The company announced a new strategy last year that we're renaming the company QVC Group. We're renaming the tagline the Live Social Shopping Company. We signed a strategic partnership with TikTok Shop earlier this year with the First 24, 7 always on live shopping program on TikTok Shop. Now we're working across all the social media companies. But we're really going hard at TikTok shop.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. Because in. At least in the Western world, totally outside of whatnot, TikTok shop are those are really the two, quote unquote, actual leaders. Can I ask you, like, are you surprised, curious, anticipating. Like, I've been waiting for YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, X. Do you think the other competitors in the social media landscape of TikTok are slow gathering their thoughts? Like, do you see any world in three years where those players are not involved in this? I know I threw like nine questions at you.

[David Rawlinson]

No, no, no, it's good. But they're all. They all have the same heart. The same hearts. At the question. The. The advantage of TikTok is that they are connected to China and they see it in China.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

They live it.

[David Rawlinson]

They live it in China. So keep in mind, in China, China, social shopping.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Real quick, go ahead. Actually, I want you to say this because it's powerful.

[David Rawlinson]

Yeah. Social shopping in China is half a trillion dollars.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Half.

[David Rawlinson]

Half a trillion dollars. Just social shopping in China is larger than a lot of the GBP of a lot of economies around the world.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Correct.

[David Rawlinson]

And it's something like, depending on who you listen to, 40 to 50% of all E commerce in China. In the US social shopping is 6% of all E commerce. And so we're way behind.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And by the way, David, people just were stunned that it's that high. Like when you just said that all the CEOs, all the CMOs, all the entrepreneurs, all the creators, all the influencers. And again, you and I, like all of us, whether it's 6% or 4%, these reports can be little. Right. But people do not even realize how big it is in the US right now, this second.

[David Rawlinson]

That's exactly right. And it's growing very fast. By the nanosecond, it's growing very fast. So I think the best estimate suggests it's about 70 billion a day. It'll be 140 billion in less than five years. With 70 billion in 23, it should be 140 billion in something like 28.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Mike's doing his first live show. He opened up his mouth during one of my shows this week, and now forcing him. He's literally. He's doing a garage sale.

[David Rawlinson]

How'd you do?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Oh, he's doing it tomorrow. Tomorrow. Tomorrow or he's fired.

[David Rawlinson]

This is it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, I'm not kidding, David, I need.

[David Rawlinson]

To know your numbers.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I need to know your numbers.

[David Rawlinson]

What's the seller? What are we selling? Sports cars.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Is that what you're doing? You have enough laying around. But you have to do me a favor, please throw some random stuff because actually, please, like a hat, like a coat, like a golf club. I actually believe that this is so big that is going to. And this is tough for me. Cause I grew up garage sale and fleet marketing. But I believe in four to five years, like, the garage sale is going to happen. On live social shopping, you're literally gonna be in your living room. You're like, how about this curtain? Like, people are gonna be with a phone, being like, what do you want for my house? And they're gonna be like, that lamp? I'm like, all right, the lamp is up for sale 1325. Like, this is profound. This is gonna create economics that don't exist yet.

[David Rawlinson]

Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, I agree with that. And so we think this is the next big thing in shopping. We think it's about to transform shopping to go back to your point. So TikTok is tied into the Chinese ecosystem, so they understand where all of this is going. And so I help. I think it's helped them get. But don't you think if you. And.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But don't you think if. I'm sorry to interrupt, but don't you think if you and I are smart enough because we know what's going on in China, wouldn't you like to think that Mark Zuckerberg and Linda and Elon over. Like they know it's happening?

[David Rawlinson]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Are you. I guess it's a very simple question. Are you surprised that Metta has not put out harder push in Q1, Q2 of this year, given how last year went, or. Or do you not even think about things like that now?

[David Rawlinson]

I think I'm shocked.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

We do that.

[David Rawlinson]

We do a lot of business with Meta. We have a great. We have a great partnership with them and we're working with them on social shopping as well. I think TikTok has deeper conviction earlier because they lived it earlier.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I agree.

[David Rawlinson]

I think eventually everybody will get there because it's going to the biggest opportunity on the board for every social media company. They're gonna get suffocated over the next couple of decades and so everybody's gonna be there, everybody's gonna figure out how to play. I think there are a lot of opportunities in front of big opportunities in front of all of the social media companies right now. What's AI going to mean? What's the advertising market?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You're being. So they're still doing stuff, by the way, the Reason I think some people are slow to this right now is the AI combo is so important.

[David Rawlinson]

I agree with that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And has sucked up the oxygen for some time. I totally agree with that. But like, by the way, back to shopping. This gets into commerce land. Amazon, Walmart, ebay, all have smoke. No fire yet, but all have smoke around this live social shopping thing.

[David Rawlinson]

That's absolutely right. That's absolutely right. I think what's different and I think what's really good about what you're doing and I think is it's not just so everybody has a piece of it. What QVC figured out a long time ago that nobody's really quite tried to figure out yet in social, and I think it's one of the reasons that social shopping is taking, taking longer to take off in the United States is you actually have to build a full value proposition. Right. So you have to, you have to generate the content. Yes. But you also have to build a merchandising function. So you have all the products. QVC sells 400,000 products a year. So we have all the products that you need. But then you got to get the products in people's hands. So we ship, we ship 200 million boxes a year and you have to get it in their hands. And then once it's in their hands, sometimes they're problems. They want to return it. Who do they return it to? They want to call somebody to find out where the product is. Who do they call? Do you have call centers for them to talk to? Right. So it goes. People think about the front end or the back end. They have a product they want to sell, or they have social media and they think they have the eyeballs. You need the eyeballs. You need the personalities who will bring those eyeballs in. And then they have to be matched to the right product.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You need the. I mean, where you have always been. I mean, I've been fascinated about this my whole life, literally. I mean, obviously I've been in business feels like my whole life you need to have the analytics and the data.

[David Rawlinson]

You need the analytics and the data. Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

When I was like 20, so I guess it's 30 years ago when I found out that at QVC, when you would go on my whole life, I thought I would be on qvc.

[David Rawlinson]

I will never say never.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What do you think you're doing here, David? What do you think you're doing here? But really, QVC like this my whole life, I'm like one day, like, I just think about these things in my life. I just, I'M built for it.

[David Rawlinson]

You are.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And I'll tell you why. This is why. I knew this 30 years ago.

[David Rawlinson]

Maybe this is a recruiting call. We thought it was a podcast.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I've been talking to some of your, I've been talking to some of your execs. 30 years ago I was like, wait, they have data that shows that you're good. Like, like three seconds in. They're like 100%. This person's not going to be good. I've been. I mean, what. Today the best Internet companies in the world, like TikTok itself does not. Was very advanced at this. Does not even have the stack that you guys have of people coming on and you're like, yep. And like, you're like, oh, Johnny, we're gonna have him on every eight weeks. Cause he's got it. It's a big deal. And to your point, you know, it's very funny. So veefriends, I believe in horizontal and vertical for intellectual property when it comes to consumable goods, meaning I will license out. So I'm trying to build a Pokemon Marvel World.

[David Rawlinson]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Obviously what you're looking at is Topps Chrome. That's a licensing deal with fanatics and Michael Rubin and Topps. Because I can't do trading cards like they can. I can't get that distribution. But comic books.

[David Rawlinson]

Ruben's a great guy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Great. But comic books, Here we go. I'm actually selling direct to consumer on live social shopping. And the reason you just talked about the most important part, because I built an e commerce business in 1996 and still run one. The number one thing I invested in first was customer service.

[David Rawlinson]

Very smart.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

While in parallel building up supply chain.

[David Rawlinson]

Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And then finally I gave enough shits about who's gonna be on and sell it. What the. Like. And so to your point, that middle.

[David Rawlinson]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Cause everyone's like content, product selling. That middle is the whole game.

[David Rawlinson]

Yeah, that's exactly.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It's gonna be a massive differentiator.

[David Rawlinson]

That's exactly right. And so but I think we're finally, I think like with our partnership with TikTok, we're finally other people coming into the ecosystem. We're finally building the ecosystem. And I think once the ecosystem gets built, it's going to be the best way of shopping. 100%. Everybody's already on social.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Correct.

[David Rawlinson]

Everybody's already doing some purchasing on social.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Correct.

[David Rawlinson]

If you look at who's winning in retail now, you basically have a couple of big winners. You have sort of algorithmic big e commerce engines that feel very impersonal that are selling your eyeballs. It's an efficient way to shop, but it's not a joyful way to shop. You have really big box retailers, you're walking on concrete floors. You have self checkout. It's a. It's a very efficient way to shop. It's not a joyful way to shop. Neither one of them has connection or trust. Neither one of them are terribly human and neither one of them are great for impulse and discovery. No, they're social is going to solve.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's right. They're good for convenience and price.

[David Rawlinson]

That's right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Which are absolute elements of shopping.

[David Rawlinson]

That's exactly right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But boy, when you start getting into commerce tainment when you underst. I believe that most of this has been the most interesting. And you you at QVC probably really knew this. I knew many things about qvc. This was not something on my radar until living the last three years of social shopping and the last year where it's really become is stunning to me how many people buy something as a subconscious tip to the host.

[David Rawlinson]

There is no doubt about it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That is. But by the way, for you and I, that's real. When I tell you 99% of the smart people that are listening to this podcast about this do not know this yet. I am watching on my stuff and I'm not even talking about when I'm the host, even my teammates. But obviously when I'm the host given you know, it's funny how life works. You give and you get. But I can definitely feel it when I'm on that people are just buying just to support me because I've given them so much. But I'm watching kids that I hire for the first time do a show and because they're funny or clever or they're working hard, I can feel it through the screen that there's someone who's like I'm gonna buy this because this person made me laugh. No different than paying 400 bucks to go see a fancy comedy standup show here in Madison Square Garden. When you are entertained, you are accustomed to pay for that. This commerce tainment thing that 100% back to what you were talking about. A Walmart or a Target or a Costco or at Amazon is not providing that they are dominant on convenience and price. And that will continue to keep them very much in business. They will try to get into what we're talking about here. Everybody will. But man, it is real that commerce tainment thing.

[David Rawlinson]

And I will say one of the things we know about American society right now is it's getting a lot lonelier. People have fewer friendships, fewer marriages, fewer best friends. And so a lot of where people go for human connection is through these digital platforms, including especially the social platforms. That's why they're called social platforms. And when people are engaging in those social platforms, they're bringing a lot of themselves to it. And so if you're creating a real connection on that social platform, people want to contribute, they want to interact, they want to have a connection. They feel like you're there with them in a real way. They know you're not, but they feel it in a real way. And if the way you give them to participate is through retail, that's fine. Sometimes it's because of the product, but a lot of times it's because it's their way to participate in this social moment that they're experiencing, by the way, disproportionately.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The most exciting thing I see from afar that you're about to activate. You have had an enormous community that has not been able to be connected with each other given the medium of television. That's right, you're about to have them all. When I tell you that half the people that show up when I go live are there to be with each other and I think it's even higher. That just hurts my feelings that it's that high. They are fully engaged now. We also have, you know, and again, I'm saying this out loud to tell you how I'm doing it. So all of you create your version of it. We have a real good thing going because our literal thing is called Veefriends. And our tagline before live social shopping four years ago is strangers become acquaintances, acquaintances become friends and friends become family. And so that's been our ethos. So that's why we, you know, when I launched Veefriends, it was an nft, but it had utility. It was actually a ticket to a once a year, over three year period super conference that was held in the Colts Stadium, the Vikings Stadium and then in LA Live. Like a real ticket. Yeah, and. Cause it was friends. I was building the characters as friends and competitors. There's a lot of deep modern parenting stuff I'm trying to accomplish and I wanted the people that collected them to be friends. This live social shopping thing has taken it to the stratosphere. So you're absolutely right.

[David Rawlinson]

Yeah, that's awesome.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Let me take this opportunity. This show is consumed by an extraordinary amount of Gen Z, even Gen Alpha, and obviously young Millennials. How does QVC start to win the hearts and minds of that generation? I'm sure that's got to be a real topic on your mind.

[David Rawlinson]

Yeah. So we've always been centered on sort of a woman as she goes into her 30s, 40s, 50s, comes into more discretionary income, has more discretionary time, tends to want to after she's been very focused often on family and friends and others, now gets a little more focused on herself, is willing to treat herself, is willing to invest in herself, and is also investing in other buying for families, friends, that sort of thing. So we love that customer. Absolutely love that customer. Everybody else can chase younger. We love that customer. We're going to stay with that customer. We think that disproportionately, these women who have raised a family, are deeply involved in their community, are for no fee, holding up the nonprofits that serve the people in need in those communities. We think that woman is a hero that the world underserved, and we're really happy to serve her. So we will not walk away. We will not walk away from her.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Hear, hear. That said, but it's an end game, right?

[David Rawlinson]

It's an end game. That said, and so what we're finding is that a lot of things we sell on social media, everybody wants it, works for everybody, Right? Electronics and iPad works for everybody. A KitchenAid mixer works for everybody. And we're working with so many influencers, so we are actively today, either in conversations or actively working with 85,000 influencers across social media.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Incredible.

[David Rawlinson]

And so you get to take advantage of all of their fans, all of their followers, and so you're dipping into their audience. And so what we're finding is we are naturally expanding our demographic as we are working with lots of followers or, sorry, working with lots of influencers and creators who are bringing their own audiences. And so we will expand naturally as part of this strategy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What's something. Let me give you the floor a little bit. What's something we have not talked about that you think would bring value? I have a funny feeling this podcast can be consumed by a lot of people that are looking at this space. Given the nature of who you and I are in the moment we're in right now? What have we not talked about that you find interesting? What do you want people to know, either in the macro, because you enjoy the thinking process of all this, or in the micro something that's going on in QVC Group. What have we not touched on that is a good addition to this conversation as an aha. Or a watch out. Or a fun tidbit.

[David Rawlinson]

Yeah. So the thing we've not touched on in this conversation that I find interesting is your relationship with Bojangles, because.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

My man, I liked you already, but fuck you. That was such a good curveball. I'm proud of you. That's the shit I normally do. My relationship. I'm on the board.

[David Rawlinson]

I know.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And look, this goes back.

[David Rawlinson]

I grew up on Bojangles.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

If you're from the Carolinas, that is, if you're listening right now and you are not from the Carolinas, you cannot comprehend what Bojangles means. And, you know, it's funny. It's a story similar to. And I joined that board for many reasons.

[David Rawlinson]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

One, I keep doing things to set up my. My interests, my learnings, my contributions, and, you know, from like, all. From a selfless kind of standpoint, and then from a selfish standpoint. I want to be the most Swiss army knife operator of all time. I'm really thinking those terms and. But I also realize I have strengths and weaknesses. I like to go to places where inherently I have strengths.

[David Rawlinson]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It is very clear to me. I mean, this is funny. This is the second time I bring it up. Truly. Truly. I wish we had a common friend that knew both of us our whole lives. Truly. When I was 18, 19, 20, I would walk around life and be like, I'm gonna be on QVC one day. In the same way, probably about. What am I, 49? Probably about 20 years ago. I'm like, oh, shit. I have the personality and operational type that would be really great at launching a substantial SaaS business or a QSR franchise or just a macro franchisee. Franchisor business.

[David Rawlinson]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So I've spent a lot of time investing in SaaS businesses. And then I joined a board of a QSR that was on a. And this is very specific. I had other opportunities. But Bojangles was at a point where it was ready to double down and win bigger in the south, but was ready, for the first time ever to expand out west and up north. And so it's been a great journey.

[David Rawlinson]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And I wish, you know, listen, everybody's got their thoughts on eating and foods. And I'm kind of like, nothing is black and white. It's all a little gray. I think some indulgence would do a lot of people, some good. Occasional indulgence I think is right. You know, because I'm on the board, I've had to really go deep on every version of every kind of fast food competitor. Things of that nature, bojo does good food. We do a lot of things not as well as I'd like and we're building and building and building. But like, it kind of goes back to the essence of QVC and any other great iconic company. When you do a couple of things real well, it always gives you a fighter's chance to adjust to the things that maybe you missed or are changing on you.

[David Rawlinson]

That's exactly right. That's exactly right. So a more serious answer, I would say we just think we're at a moment. If you look at linear television, this year will probably be the first year that streaming viewership will surpass linear television viewership. Last year was the first year that digital advertising surpassed linear television advertising. You're seeing this transition from linear television viewership to streaming real time, this complete transformation. Same thing is going to happen in retail. We sit between sort of retail and entertainment and shopping. And so we're seeing this on the streaming side. By the way, we built a very fast growth streaming business. Our monthly active users are up 100% year over year.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Where can people see that?

[David Rawlinson]

You can see it at QVC plus, HSN plus, Apple tv, whatever your platform.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Is, download the app, download the television and HSN plus.

[David Rawlinson]

That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And so we're about to see the same amount of disruption in retail. It's coming, it's been building. I think we're finally at the moment, like you said, I think TikTok shop is the first real social media platform to sort of show people 100%, sort of show people the way. Last thing I'll say, because I know you have a lot of people who talk, who think about marketing and digital marketing and things like that. This is going to be a big, big revolution in how you think about digital marketing. When you look at conversion rates in China for live streams, you see 10, 15, 20, sometimes 30% conversion, as opposed to E commerce in the United States where you usually see 2 to 5% conversion. Why? Because the social media companies know so much more about you, they can drop you in the live stream where your conversion rate's likely to be really high.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Plus plus plus I'm sorry, but I like to jam. I'm more like a, like if I was a musician, I'd like to jump in and start playing my saxophone. Plus, people like to buy from humans.

[David Rawlinson]

And people like to buy from humans.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

People like to buy from humans. This is something you know better than anyone. Like literally, I'd rather buy from someone. Talk. And now What QVC didn't have at that Live social happens that now you have that you're doing these partnerships. Wait, I can ask the person a question, they might answer it or somebody else might ask us. It is versus a banner ad, versus a image that sends me to a landing page. I mean it is a different game.

[David Rawlinson]

So it's gonna change. It's gonna change retail digital marketing in a real way. It's gonna change shopping. It's coming. I think it's a big opportunity. We believe we're pivoting the company there. We believe it's a massive opportunity. You've been all over it. I think you've probably been as big a public voice trying to get out in front of this and get people to see the opportunity as anybody. And by the way, I think we're gonna win. I want a lot of people to win. I think we need to build the whole ecosystem.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You're smart enough to know that's what's going to happen. There's gonna be. And what I get excited about. I play a very funny role. I live with the creator. Small entrepreneur all the way to Fortune 50. I want it both for people like yourself, like the biggest incumbents, but I want it for people like Mike.

[David Rawlinson]

Yeah, that's right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And here I've got.

[David Rawlinson]

I want it for you, Mike.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But let me say this, you'll find this interesting. Here's a real tidbit. I think the millions, excuse me, the hundreds of millions of people that are trying to become influencers. I mean every single kid in the world that's 16 has one agenda. Professionally. I would like to be an influencer.

[David Rawlinson]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Because I just want to live my life and get as much money as possible. I believe that millions of people right now listening, you know, hopefully over a decade that many will listen. But like millions of people that potentially could hear this are aiming to be an influencer but do not have the talent. This is unfortunately like something that has to be said. But if they pivoted to be a social commerce person, that their destiny, trying to be an influencer and getting brand deals and all that only caps at 8,000 a year. Not the millions they dream of. If they took their same talents and decided to go all in on live shopping, I think they make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. That long tail of win, you're gonna be battling it out with the ebay's and the Amazons and the like. You've got your 30 to 50 that you're gonna be playing with. The long tail of it. The fact that there's, you know, that's actually.

[David Rawlinson]

And it's a much more direct monetization, of course.