Tom Bilyeu on the Truth About Patience and Teaching Entrepreneurship

Summary

Podcast Summary: The GaryVee Audio Experience

Episode: Tom Bilyeu on the Truth About Patience and Teaching Entrepreneurship

Host: Gary Vaynerchuk
Guest: Tom Bilyeu
Date: February 13, 2026

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Overview

In this deeply engaging conversation, Gary Vaynerchuk welcomes Tom Bilyeu, co-founder of Quest Nutrition and Impact Theory, for a no-holds-barred discussion about the realities of entrepreneurship, the importance of patience—and impatience—the dangers of “fake environments,” and how frame of reference can limit potential. They explore core entrepreneurial values, managing company culture, and the true meaning of fulfillment. Peppering the discussion are memorable stories, call-ins, and sharp, personal reflections from both hosts.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Long Game and Misconceptions About "Quick" Success

• Tom’s Origin Story: Tom recounts going into business with the hope he’d be rich in 18 months, but it took 15 years (00:54).

  • “I thought, this is amazing. It took 15 years.” — Tom Bilyeu (01:18)

• Contextualizing Time:

  • Gary emphasizes that when you're 25, 18 months sounds long, but 15 years in your 40s is nothing.
  • “This is my whole damn thesis of lack of impatience and not contextualizing time.” — Gary (01:23)

2. Chasing Money vs. Chasing Fulfillment

• Money Burnout: Tom describes reaching multimillionaire status on paper but being burned out and walking away from equity worth seven figures (01:59–03:13).

  • “People do not understand the difference between real money and paper money, man. It’s crazy.” — Tom (02:21)

• Finding Meaning: Tom realized camaraderie and purpose mattered more than money.

  • “Camaraderie is a higher value for me than pursuing money. Meaning and purpose is what I’m really driven by.” — Tom (04:54)

• Gary’s Similar Journey: Both admit they started in their 30s with little or nothing despite huge effort.

3. Early Growth of Quest Nutrition: “Day-Trading Attention”

• Direct-To-Consumer Beginnings: Quest started with website sales and influencer marketing before it was a buzzword (06:09–07:21).
  • Tom personally delivered bars to influencers, even hiding his “piece of shit” car (06:17).
  • “Our thing was community, community, community. Add value to people's lives. Don't try to sell them shit.” — Tom (06:54)
• Constant Change: Both stress adapting to where attention is, not getting stuck in a single channel (07:21–07:34).

4. The Power—and Fragility—of Physical Businesses

• Real Challenges: Manufacturing is “bananas,” with supply chain hiccups (almond contracts, fava beans, etc.) making everything fragile (08:23–09:27).

5. Building a Brand: Authenticity and Community

• Why Tom Was Pissed At Gary: Tom admits Gary "leapfrogged" him in personal branding, pushing him to step into the spotlight (09:44).
  • “Look at this motherfucker. Look what he's doing, dude. He's popping off. People are really listening to his message. And I was listening. I'm like, this fucking guy's real. Every word out of his mouth is real.” — Tom (10:06)
• Value of Being a Practitioner: Both agree credibility comes from actually operating a business, not just talking about it.

6. Impact Theory: Teaching at Scale

• Tom’s Mission: Create meaningful impact by changing people’s limiting beliefs and reference frames (13:01–18:20).
  • His formative story about mentoring an at-risk child, expanding into leadership at Quest and now Impact Theory.
• The “Magic Genie” Question: Every employee asked, “If you had one wish, what would it be?” Over 300 interviews, all said “$1 million”—which revealed underlying constraints in ambition and thinking (16:01–17:21).

7. Building Culture & Emotional Safety

• It Starts At The Top: Both stress culture is impossible to change “bottom-up”—if the founder/leadership isn’t bought in, “get the fuck out” (23:31–25:42).
  • “Unless you miraculously have leverage on the singular a leader of the company, you will not be able to change the culture.” — Gary (25:42)
• Emotional Safety: Tom’s new obsession—look for workplaces where laughter and genuine connection thrive (25:46–27:10).

8. The Patience vs. Micro-Speed Debate

• Philosophical Disagreement: Tom rejects “patience,” fearing people hear “be passive,” while Gary insists patience means “long-term vision with urgent execution” (42:44–44:12).
  • “What Gary means [is] play the long game. Patience, micro speed, 1000 percent. The problem is when people hear patience, they get in a passive mode.” — Tom (42:45)

9. Born or Made: Can You Teach Entrepreneurship?

• Can Entrepreneurship Be Learned?
  • Gary: Most successful operators (COOs, etc.) can be trained, but true entrepreneurs have innate traits.
  • Tom: "Humans are the ultimate adaptation machine." He didn't have entrepreneurial instincts as a kid but adapted out of necessity (48:00–49:18).
  • Both agree the environment matters—“fake environments” can hold back natural ability.

10. Fear, Judgment, and Self-Awareness

• Moving Through Fear: Tom still fears asking for money but moves forward anyway, using fear as a guidepost (51:08–51:56).
• Self-Love Without Ego: Gary says genuine self-love comes from self-awareness, not delusion or ego. Neither judge themselves or others—intent is everything (52:25–54:01).

11. The Dangers of “Fake Environments”

• On Funding and Risk: Gary rails against fake stability—VC money, parental support, or debt without accountability—urging people to “live on your merit or you don't. The end.” (41:08–41:59)
• Moral: When the “economic meltdown” comes, it’ll be positive—people will stop pretending and find real happiness (54:38–56:01).

12. Call-Ins: Practical Advice and Mindset Shifts

• How to Change Corporate Culture: If you don’t have support from the top, “get out.” (23:31)
• Starting with No Funding: Use your network authentically, be transparent about risk; humility is the “secret sauce” for young hustlers (35:50–40:52).
• Career Paths and Tasting: For young people: “Try lots of shit. Make decisions fast. Mistakes are the richest data stream.” — Tom (60:06)
• On Advice and Hypocrisy: Don’t give advice you didn’t live. Don’t become a hypocrite after getting rich from hustle and comfort (63:33).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tom Bilyeu:

  • “You can take somebody who’s fat and change them into muscle, but for some reason, people don’t think you can change the mind.” (48:35)
  • “Once you understand that in your life, motherfuckers, you’re either going to be chasing money or you’re gonna be chasing fulfillment. And nary the twain shall meet.” (28:06)
  • “My thing is, how do you get people to realize that momentum is the thing that I think matters?” (44:23)

• Gary Vaynerchuk:

  • “You’re worth zero until you sell or IPO. And when the economy collapses, your ‘on paper’ is toast.” (02:25)
  • “Unless you have a leader that cares more about the culture than the money, you’re fucked.” (25:42)
  • “Don’t judge yourself and you won’t judge others. Self-awareness is the foundation of loving yourself.” (53:00)
  • “If you love what you're doing and you're happy and you're mentally and physically healthy, do you.” (39:35)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:54 – Tom’s entrepreneurial origin story, the myth of fast riches
• 01:23 – Contextualizing time: youthful impatience vs. long-term perspective
• 04:54 – Tom’s realization about meaning vs. money
• 06:09 – Quest’s early direct-to-consumer and influencer strategies
• 09:44 – Tom admits Gary beat him to personal branding—frank competitive honesty
• 13:01–18:20 – Tom’s journey from foster mentorship to trying to impact reference frames at scale
• 16:01–17:21 – The “Magic Genie” question reveals low ceilings on ambition
• 23:31–25:42 – Why culture change only works with buy-in from the top
• 25:46–27:10 – Tom on emotional safety as company culture foundation
• 42:44–44:12 – Patience vs. micro-speed: philosophical split
• 48:00–54:01 – Nature vs. nurture in entrepreneurship, self-awareness
• 56:01 – Coming economic meltdown as a source of happiness and authenticity
• 60:06–61:53 – On decisive action, learning from mistakes, and not getting paralyzed

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Takeaways for Aspiring Entrepreneurs

• Chasing fulfillment beats chasing money in the long-term.
• Real success takes significantly longer than most expect; “years, not months.”
• Authenticity and adding value create real communities and sustainable brands.
• Building great company culture is only possible with buy-in from the very top.
• Skills and mindsets can be developed—environment (and self-awareness) are critical.
• Mistakes aren't fatal; indecision and inaction are.
• Entrepreneurs are happiest when they're true to themselves and reject “fake environments.”
• Giving advice you haven’t lived is hypocritical—practice before you preach.

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Final Question of the Day

Tom Bilyeu: “What is the impact you want to have on the world? Because baby, chasing fulfillment, that's the game.” (64:44)

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This episode is a masterclass in entrepreneurial mindset and the honest realities of building something from scratch. Both guests layer wisdom with candor—and a lot of F-bombs—making it a must-listen for anyone seeking inspiration grounded in real-world experience.

Transcript

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I get asked about this podcast all the time, so why not run it back Since I know 99% of you have not heard it. Love you all. Hope you enjoy this. Hit me up on Twitter if you listen to my podcast. And here we go. Me and Tom enjoy it. This is the GaryVee audio experience. On this episode, Tom Bilyeu stops by and we talk Impact, motherfuckers. Hey, everybody, this is Gary Vay ner Chuk. And this is episode 299 of the AskGaryVee Show. Ask a question in a minute. This is episode 299, which means, A, we need a real strategy for episode 300. B, I'm super pumped you're here, dude.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I'm psyched to be here, man.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Tell the Vayner Nation who you are.

[Tom Bilyeu]

My name is Tom Bilyeu. I'm one of the co founders of Quest Nutrition and now I'm doing impact theory. Came up as an entrepreneur because I was super frustrated with my inability to get a movie made the way that I wanted to. And I met these two successful entrepreneurs and they said, look, dude, if you want to control the art, you got to control the resources, so come with us and get rich. And we all thought it would take about 18 months. I thought, this is amazing. It took 15 years.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

How old were you at the time?

[Tom Bilyeu]

At the time? Like 25, 26.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know what? This is such a good place to go to right before I let you continue. Like, this is my whole damn thesis of, like, lack of impatience and, like, not contextualizing time. When you're 25, 18 months seems like a long time. Yeah, we're gonna put in a lot of work.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, it's so true.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And now in your 40s, 15 years doesn't seem so long. It's context of time.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, for sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It's really cool. Okay, so what were you guys gonna first do?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Started in technology and chase that. It was literally chasing money. That was it, my sole focus. I woke up every day saying, I'm going to get rich. It was the, like centralized.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And when you think of. Do you think that that's what made you successful or do you think when you changed that thesis?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Precisely when I changed that thesis. So doing that I actually did on paper, was a multimillionaire, but I had so burnt out, I went and quit and I gave the equity back. I said, look, I'm not gonna cross the finish line.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You had equity worth more than seven figures or seven figures. Just like a lot of people running around now who are rich on paper. But when the economy collapses and that company goes out of business, they're gonna be at zero.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. People do not understand the difference between real money and paper money, man. It's crazy, Tom.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

This is why I keep putting out the content I'm putting out. I'm like, cool. I'm glad that you work at this startup that's now worth a billion and you're worth 11 million on paper, but until the exit, you're worth 0.

[Tom Bilyeu]

0.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And when the economy collapses and there's no fundraising round and your direct to consumer gigolo company doesn't make any. Can't raise more capital, then it's goes for zero.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like, every one of these kids has to learn about the crash of 2001 and 2007, but they don't.

[Andy]

Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It's fucking bad. Anyway, so that's. You were on paper, you had money.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yep.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You did it for how many years?

[Tom Bilyeu]

That was about the six and a half year mark was when I said, I gotta bounce.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So for six and a half years, you did something that made you look like you had something on paper, but because you were burnt out and it didn't feel right, you gave it back. Which, in essence may. It meant you made no money.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Correct.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So you're basically starting over.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yep.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yep.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Thousand percent.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Tell him one more time.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. Yeah. Started over because I wanted to feel 32. Yeah. And fucking unhappy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Nothing.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Nothing.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's right.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So that's me, though, Andy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I built my dad's store for him. And at 30 fucking 4, I was worth nothing.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Like, let that hang in the air.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I mean. Yeah, I need it to hang in the air because everybody, like, looks at us and, you know, and I just don't. I wish people understood.

[Tom Bilyeu]

The one thing I really wish they understood is that, dude, I totally get the chasing the Lambos and all this. I actually get it. But at the end of the day, as somebody who lived that and tried that and thought that it was gonna be rad, I'm just telling you, it fucking sucks. Like, it will drain your soul in a way you can't predict until you're doing it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. And once super fun up front, like, at halftime, you're like, this was exactly right.

[Tom Bilyeu]

The first three years were awesome.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Exactly.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Because. But not because of the money. It was awesome because I was getting more powerful. So I was learning business. I was like, fuck. Like, this is amazing. I felt like I controlled my destiny. I was like, this is the shit. And then, like, after a while, it started to take from me it started to erode me as a person, and I was losing my relationships, and it was just. It was gnarly. And my wife pulled me aside and was like, this is now damaging our relationship. Because I was so unhappy at work, I didn't want to talk about it at work, which meant I didn't talk to her about the number one thing in my life. It was just bananas. I was just doing it ass backwards. This is all pre, like, social media. So when I went in and left, it was like, I have no idea what I'm gonna do. I just know I'm gonna pursue something that makes me feel alive. So I go and I quit. And they say the famous words which were, we could do this without you, but we don't want to. And so I was like, well, I've already done the hard thing, which is quit. So let me tell you the truth of who I am. Cause I've been telling you that all I want is to get rich. And that, you know, I'll do anything to build this business.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Let me tell you.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And that's not true. Yeah. And it was. Camaraderie is a higher value for me than pursuing money. Meaning and purpose of what I'm really driven by. I need to be passionate about what I'm doing. And so for three very different.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Was it that articulately or did you.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It was pretty close, man.

[Caller Khaled]

I.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Articulate's my game. So, yes, I was pretty on point with it. Yeah. So even in that emotional state, in the meeting when I quit, I was a fucking mess. So, no, there I was like. Like, you know.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And then they said, look, let's go out to dinner and talk. And then once we got there, then, yeah, I was back.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And were you equal partners with East Indies?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Not then, but when we did Quest, which is, of course, what is born out of this moment of crisis, we were equal partners.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So this tech thing you had.

[Andy]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You quit, you guys calmed down, decide to become equal? A third. A third, I assume. I'm just asking. Yep. 33. 33.

[Andy]

33.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And what ended? What literally? You went from that to starting Quest.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yep.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

A direct to consumer. Yep. Like health.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. So literally. And we went from technology to food, and everybody was like, what the hell are you doing? Like, that's such a bizarre step. This was 2009 when we started conceiving it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yep.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And then 2010, when we officially started selling.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And you sold it first. Direct to consumer.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yo. Yes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What was the original Quest bar model? What version of direct to consumer?

[Tom Bilyeu]

So we were online. It was online only. You would come to our website and we would sell to you there. Literally just off of our website.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And how were you were doing paid media traffic arbitrage?

[Tom Bilyeu]

No, we were doing influencer marketing exclusively. But it wasn't called that really back then. At least we didn't know that. So we were just out there on Facebook? Yeah, literally, like I would drive. This is a real story. If you seemed like you might be an influencer, I would drive the fucking bars to your house if you were anywhere near us and like park around the block. Because my car was such a piece of shit. I didn't want you to see that. Like we were just, you know, putting this all together and I would deliver the bar in the hopes that I could make some sort of impression on you about what we were doing.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Were you savvy enough already, hoping they would post on social or even. Was it just.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Most definitely, yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So you're like, get this on social.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yes, a thousand percent. Our whole place.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And they didn't know how valuable that was.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Correct.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And that's the arp.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Correct. Yeah, it was. And it was. I mean, you obviously know and you've talked a lot about this. It was a really cool time. And if you were doing something real and it was beautiful and people could really resonate with what. What you were doing. So our thing was community, community, community. Add value to people's lives. Don't try to sell them shit.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Make it happen. This was not just social. Like he probably. And he's gonna answer, maybe not. But like this was like even when like a forum post or on your own blog, like attention was in a lot of different places back then.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, yeah, dude, forums. We lived on forums. It was crazy, guys.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Forums and way worse versions of Reddit.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yes. And it changes so fast. Like, like the one just constant in the game is that whatever you're doing today is not gonna work six months from now.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So like it's my strength. Cause I'm unemotional about where the attention is, bro, I'm telling you, I can't wait. Like I'm like literally sometimes laying on like a flatbed flight on a red eye. And like just the last time I thought of it. So I'm gonna use that example and like, dude, I can't wait for there not to be social media.

[Andy]

Right?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like none of it. Cause I'm gonna be dominating whatever the fuck is happening and. And then everybody will understand my thesis more. Because right now they don't understand that I've been Day trading attention my whole life. And that this just happens to be when I most popped. So this is what you think I am?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Oh, no, I get the game. Trust me.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I know you do. So, okay, so then you built a.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Monster fucking company, and we built a monster fucking company. And it blew up. And in five years, we went from not existing to being valued at over a billion dollars, doing hundreds of millions in revenue.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And it was in manufacturing, dude. Like, really think about that. It's one thing to do it in software.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, no, no, you're preaching.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, it was when the nanas.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

When the cocoa trees are fucking wiped out by the rain, people don't get it. All my team in house, I'm like, guys, we're going in and pitching content. Their meeting before this was their supplier for. For the fava beans, which is the core ingredient of the product, like, died. And the family's selling the farm and, like, they can't make cocoa puffs.

[Tom Bilyeu]

That's real, right?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know better than I do.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It's crazy. And you get locked into. We got locked into an almond contract at one point. That has a material impact on your business. So it's like, in fact, somebody was just asking me outside, like, what makes you unique? And my thing is, I've spent the last almost 20 years building businesses, like, sitting down, forecasting sales meetings, dealing with retailers who are pissed, like, trying to figure out channel conflict. What is channel conflict? You know what I mean? Like, when you're having to do all that shit suddenly coming and putting a mic in front of you, it's just like you've got a wealth of shit that you've had to do and encounter to draw on.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

When you first discovered me, and as we got to know each other the last couple years, is that the part that was most interesting to you? That as you were starting to build your content, personal brand and content ambitions and doing it well, that, like, oh, you're like, oh, Gary's like, me, like, he's an operator and does content as a person.

[Tom Bilyeu]

The real answer to that question is, I was so pissed off by you.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Really?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. Listen to this, Listen to this.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I don't think I know this.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I start doing before it's called social media, all that stuff. I, you know, we're doing it and we're fucking doing it better than anybody else. I was about community when no one was talking about that. It's about authenticity and transparency before those became buzzwords, like, just going fucking ham. Because that's where I was, right? I'm not chasing money anymore, motherfuckers. I'm doing something I care about. I'm saving my mom and my sister. Like, this is real for me. So because of that, and it was coming from somewhere so real, we were doing social before anybody else, creating all of our own content, everything. And it was so, like, for real. I wanted to touch people's lives. And so we blew up, and I felt like I'm king shit. Like, I get it. I get something nobody else gets. That the number one most powerful marketing vehicle is being a good person. Like, this is fucking crazy. Like, we're living in this weird time where just because I actually give a shit and if I did something like, my product didn't work for you. What a fucking owl. Not only will I take it back, refund you, I'll give you more for free. Like, whatever, right? And it just right time. Then my team starts going, tom, you've got to step out front. Dude, you've got to step out front. We want to start filming you. And I was like, absolutely fucking not. That is so weird. Like, I want to be in the background. Definitely not my personality to want to step out front. And then you started popping off, and they kept rubbing you in my face, and they're like, look at this motherfucker. Look what he's doing, dude. Like, he's popping off. People are really listen to his message. And I was listening. I'm like, this fucking guy's real. Every word out of his mouth is fucking real. And if people take his advice. And that's the thing I used to laugh about. I was like, guaranteed, most people are not actually taking his advice, but I'm gonna start taking his advice because it's real and I can see. And I saw that. You saw from a personal branding perspective what I missed. And so this is probably about four years ago. I was like, all right, this dude fucking figured it out. And now I'm in second place. I do not fucking like second place. So I need to start hustling, and I need to get a show, and I need to do the shit.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And so we would literally just like, how do we bring all this stuff that I've been doing behind the scenes and how do we translate it in front of the camera? But it really born out of watching you leapfrog me, because you were smashing.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I have so much. You know, I always love pointing to you. And, you know, you were early client of Vayner Talent, which, you know, is an evolving business for us here. And I remember just like, leave I don't know, maybe you were in that Sid or Andy. But I remember, like, walking. I'm like, guys, he's super smart. Like, he's, like, doing it for the exact right reason. Like, he's gonna absolutely rent the milk, like, if you remember. And this is just truth. I was like, hey, well, we can help you build it for yourself. But you're like, nah, it's valuable for me to pay the fee. I can see every nuance. But it was like, I remember that meeting so clearly. But what I loved was you built an actual business real quick. I'm not even sure I know this quest sold well.

[Tom Bilyeu]

We sold a piece, so I still have massive ownership. I'm just not involved day to day.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So who did it sell to? What?

[Tom Bilyeu]

So we had. We brought in private. Private equity? Yeah, brought in private equity, but just the valuation was so crazy that the dol. It was pure diversification on our part. So now all of a sudden, who's operating it now? So my two partners are still there. They brought in a new CEO just to like.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And you were the CEO?

[Tom Bilyeu]

No, I was the president. And so businesses go through phases, you know, and who's right in one minute's not necessarily right in the next.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Right.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So when I left, they just changed things up a bit and. And off to the races they went.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And so what's going on with you now for the audience?

[Tom Bilyeu]

So I've launched a new company called Impact Theory, which literally, no bullshit, when I got into business, it couldn't get the films made that I wanted to make. Now, admittedly, my whole thesis around what film can be changed in the intervening time, and now I've become all about Impact. But. And this is one of the things you and I talked about in the beginning is I was telling everybody, look what Disney just did by buying Marvel. Like, you don't understand what's going on. And I pitched it to you and you said, my whole life is predicated on the fact that Disney just bought Marvel. And I was like, this motherfucker. So I was like, all right, so my whole thing is Disney did something nobody else did, which is they told one kind of story from a thousand different angles, and because of that, their brand means something. So if I say I'm going to go see a Paramount movie or a Universal movie, you know nothing about it. But if I say I'm going to go see a Disney movie, you already know something. So I'm all about impact. I'm all about reaching out and touching people's lives in A for real way. And hopefully we'll get into that because I've recently been really, really strong here.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, right now.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, that would be amazing.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You're going to take it there right now.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So basically.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But then like go right into it. Segue.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So I want to really touch people's lives. I have, I've worked in the inner cities a lot. Started when I was 18. For extra credit, I did an eight week assignment with this little kid who was like drug and alcohol impacted, totally off, just out of his mind. And he would freak out when I would try to help him with his homework. Cry, just a nightmare. And then when I'd say I have to leave, then he would beg and plead and cry and all that. And I would stay. Week five, I realized he's trolling me and that he actually knows exactly what he's doing. I thought, this fucking kid's sharp. So then I got a little respect for him. And at week six, you have to tell him I'm only coming for two more weeks. So I tell him, he goes nuclear. I mean just, I've never seen a human that distraught. And so finally I'm like, is it because I said I'm only coming for two more weeks? He says yes. I say, look man, because by now like I really have bonded with this kid. So I'm like, as long as I live in Los Angeles, as long as I live in Los Angeles, I'll help you with your homework. But you have to do it the second I get here. No more of this like fighting and stuff. That becomes an eight and a half year relationship. Completely changes my life. I didn't know it at the time, but he's being abused by his adoptive mother, he gets taken out. They make me the guardian. I have to help him into foster care. I mean, it was like some heavy shit for an early 20 something kid from Tacoma. And going through that process, I just had this overwhelming feeling that this kid could be something. He could be really special. Like he's a beautiful human being, but he's never going to be because what he's been taught is so limiting that. And so I used to take him to movies in Beverly Hills because I was broke, but movies cost the same and I wanted him to see beautiful places.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Wanted him to have something to aspire to. So Anyway, flash forward 15 years now. I've got about 3,000 employees and about a thousand of them grew up hard as hell. Like one kid held his stepfather while he bled to death from a gunshot wound to the head. Another his sister was shot in the heart with an AK47 in his front yard when she was 12. I mean, just like story after story after story. And I had that same feeling again. These are amazing fucking people, dude. But they're never going to do anything. And so back in the early days of Quest, I interviewed everybody. If you wanted to work there, you're gonna interview for me whether you're janitor, EVP of sales. Didn't matter.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Me too.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And so I had this magic genie question. Cause I wanted to know what you were really about. And so, hey, a magic genie is about to show up. They'll grant you one wish and one wish only. Can't be more wishes or to cure cancer. Bring somebody back from the dead. It's gotta be for you. What do you want? Dude? I must ask that question. I'm not kidding 300 times. What are the odds every single person gave me the same answer? Literally every single person. $1 million.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What?

[Tom Bilyeu]

And I was like, I had that reaction. So at person. At person 10, I actually said to the team, are you guys with me? Like, are you prepping them beforehand? Because there's. It doesn't make any sense. You can't get a house in LA for a million dollars. It's a magic genie. You don't ask for a money machine or a trillion dollars just for a million dollars.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

They have to. Would they have to pay taxes on it?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Exactly. But 650?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Or was it capital gains? Did they get at least 800?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Or like, dude, it was so crazy to me. And so what it showed me was frame of reference.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I apologize. The million dollar thing really fucks with me too. Because the 1% of earners in America, the bottom of it starts at 440. And this million fucks with everyone. I wish the answer to that question was 440, because then it would be based on the merit of reality. The delta between 440 and a million is pretty significant. And everybody thinks a million is just the beginning of any level success.

[Caller Khaled]

Mm.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It's. I think about it all the time anyway. Keep going.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So it. It was. The only truthful answer is it was heartbreaking. And I thought, all right. Their frame of reference is what's keeping them stuck. It's not that they're not smart. It's not that they can't learn. They can. So it is entirely that they don't believe that their energies will be rewarded with powerful knowledge. So they don't read a book, so they don't think anything will come of it. They don't dream big enough. They don't think that they can. So I was just like.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Any more questions? I'm gonna get some more. If you're watching on Facebook or Instagram Live right now, Tom and I are gonna. Tom's about to segue into what he really wants to talk about, but then we're gonna do a couple questions. It's GaryVee teamaynermedia.com Put your question in the title and your phone number in the body.

[Tom Bilyeu]

There it is.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Some people are just born with it. Go ahead. What do you want to segue into?

[Tom Bilyeu]

So my whole thing is how do you help people like that at scale? Like, how do you really do it?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So you're gonna build a media company around that?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Correct.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I love it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So there it is.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I know it's right.

[Caller Khaled]

Thank you, man.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What you have to do is do hot. What you have to do is follow what we're doing at vayner. I gotta show you, actually. Obviously, we're gonna be seeing each other probably a lot more given what we'll announce in a minute. So. Happy for you, Zach. You just made the best decision of your life, Zach, when you decided to join and create with me. Vayner speakers. Did you. You. And we've known each other for what, eight years? Longer. Cool. It's even better than you thought, right? Yeah. That's all I needed to hear.

[Tom Bilyeu]

This is what I hoped, in fairness.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

He actually said that outside what he said when there were no cameras, that it was better than he thought. He said, I knew it was gonna be big. I knew it was gonna be special.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But it's actually better because what I do is sandbag. I sandbag everything about it and me and it. Like, it's gonna be so. You're so good, bro. I just want to give you. Honestly, you're such a good dude. I'm so pumped. What we're alluding to right now, everyone's confused is we're gonna be. We announced Vayner speakers. As you guys know, Zach is the CEO. We worked together for a long time when he was at ca and we had a great run. I have big love for CA speaking and all that. Peter Jacobs, big shout out to you. I love you. And we're gonna announce our roster probably in a month or so. Within the month soon. But Tom is one of the first. There he is. Who's with us exclusively. And we're gonna be doing a speaking creation. So we'll be hanging. I have a funny feeling. Four or five events next year. We'll be speaking at the same event, so I'll be able to see you. But where was I going with that? Fuck. There was an interesting segue and I got excited about the Vayner speakers thing. Anything else you want to say before we get into questions?

[Tom Bilyeu]

No, man, I'm ready. Let's do it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Have you been doing investing? Like, you made a lot of money?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yep.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's not as fun as it sounds, right?

[Tom Bilyeu]

It's not.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I hate it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Not.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Not my kind of over it completely, almost.

[Tom Bilyeu]

My thing is, I'd rather.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I want to do some sort of, like, incubator. I don't want to invest anymore. I want to find kids that and old people. Like, I don't give a fuck. People that have like a 3 to 7 million dollar business and I want them to give me 49% of it. And then I want to, like, just plug it in and make it do a hundred. Yeah, I think I can do that consistently. We had a close deal, Sid. They fucked up. I love when people overplay their hands, right? I love it. Don't overplay your hands, kids. A lot of people fake it in posture. If you run into a real winner like Tom and I, we might say no, and then the whole deal's dead. That's what happened. He overplayed his fucking hand. Sorry, I'm doing some sub talking. Who's this? Josh. Josh, Gary.

[Caller Khaled]

How are you?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'm amazing, brother. You're on the askgaryvee show with me and Tommy B. Are you watching? Clearly you're watching. How's. How's the show going so far? Tom's killing it, Right? Like, he's completely charming your pants off, right?

[Caller Khaled]

Dude, Tom is the man.

[Caller Royce]

I'm watching a lot of his impact theory.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

His fucking impact theory with my boy Simon Sinek like, took over the Internet.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. That was crazy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like, my team came in there like, yo, Simon's got a super viral video. By the way, we made the best video of all time. I made a video that recorded me rebuttaling Simon on certain things about millennials while I watched it for the first time.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Wow.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

We played it. They're recording me. I'm talking over the two of you. And I think the video would have had a trillion views. The reality is I have so much respect and admiration. I love Simon that I felt like. And I'm so Team Millennial. And I hate what's happening with people misbranding them that I felt like I was too teeth and I didn't want it to become a me versus Simon thing. So I never aired it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Wow.

[Caller Khaled]

Watch.

[Andy]

30 seconds. Talked for 10 minutes was really, really good. I was like, I cannot wait to publish this. But then you didn't want to publish it until you fully watched it and could get grounded in what was saying. So we waited on it. But then a week later, it already had had its moment.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, that's definitely.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I could do it right now. It's a piece of amazing content. It's that I have too much admiration for Simon. And I felt like my energy was kind of like my trash talk, where I had to edit out a bunch of stuff in Trash Talk episode three because my energy was in a place where I switched into the competitive, you know. Anyway, sorry, Tom. Tom, that video fucking went berserker.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, it was bananas. Bananas. And that was. That was all him, dude. He just smashed it. I know he just smashed it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Do you feel like. Anyway, nonetheless, what's your question, brother?

[Caller Khaled]

Hey, so before I get into my question, you talked about Trash Talk 3. I've also been following that.

[Caller Royce]

I think that's a major key for anybody who's looking to, like, make some extra money or who hates their day job.

[Caller Khaled]

So if you're listening and maybe this.

[Caller Royce]

Happens after, definitely check out Trash Talk series by Gary Amazing. So I give you a shout out for that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Dude, you know what? Back to that shout out. It's kind of why I like Tom and me. Like, I like practical operating practitioners. Like, I love that shit. Like learning how to make $230 a week extra on offerup and on Craigslist and Facebook, Marketplace and ebay is just smart because not only for a lot of people, 800 bucks a month, 900 bucks a month is game changing. And you and I share the perspective of seeing other parts of the world where fucking 200 bucks a month is a big deal. Number two, it teaches you shit. Anyway, go ahead, what's your question? Cause we're about to hang up on your.

[Caller Khaled]

At a corporation, as an employee.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I lost you for a second there, brother. One more time.

[Caller Khaled]

How do you change a culture? At a corporation as an employee, Tom.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, man. I think the real honest answer is unless it is being supported from the top down, it will never, ever work. So you can go to them, and if you can get your leadership on board, then you've got a shot. If you cannot get them on board, it will never work. And if the culture is that dysfunctional, my advice to you is if the top isn't gonna get on, get out.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, I'm gonna be even more black and white. Even though I know exactly what he was saying. The answer is, you can't. Even if you like, for example, me, I'm a really good dude. But still, if it's pitched into me, I have to manipulate it into mine or I don't like it as much. That's just what the leader does. You agree with that, Andy? It's funny, right? You guys have to strategize how to make me feel like it's mine. Otherwise, you know, I'll never do. Seth, you're laughing, right? What happens? You guys just sit out there and try to figure out how do we make Gary feel like this is his, otherwise he will completely not support it. Right?

[Andy]

We're not smart enough to think about that. We just see it come out a week later. Like, I feel like I was the one who told him that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. So anyway, brother, listen. If you're in a company, look, culture to me is really interesting. I think companies build it from the get. So if you have the original founder there and it's not good, get the fuck out. Because she or he was never on board. If you don't have the original founder and they've been there for more than a year or two, get the fuck out. Cause they changed it. I literally tell my whole company in all hands on company meetings, hey, real quick, by the way, before the end of this meeting, if I ever sell this place, quit the next day. Cause everything I've promised you is not true anymore. So I'm with Tom, man. Unless you miraculously have leverage on the singular a leader of the company, which even in a three person partnership, there is an A within that you will not be able to change the culture. Cause culture 100% stems from top. You're either a CEO that likes happiness and impact and like why we have a good culture is I hate negativity. I'm weirded out by it. And so because I'm also the best money earner, nobody has leverage on me. So I fire other people that don't do good things to my culture. Unless you have a leader like that, that means they care about the money. And when you care about the money, the culture has no fucking prayer.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. Now culture, man, is literally everything.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Everything.

[Tom Bilyeu]

My thing is, my new, like absolute obsession is emotional safety. And it's one of those things people don't talk about in business. Feel super weird to say words like emotional safety. But I'm telling you right now, like, if whatever you do, whether you're starting your own Business or you're in a business, look for somewhere where you can have emotional safety. Because coming into work and feeling good about it is a big deal. And I think there are two metrics, and this is really gonna get people in a weird place. Metric number one, laughter. How often do people laugh? You have to fucking pay attention to that. And then number two. And, dude, the first time this really occurred to me was I was in your office and I was looking out and I saw two people put their arms around each other. I thought, wow, that's interesting. And so when you build emotional safety, you will just see that people connect and bond in a way that becomes, like, physically expressed.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You will see VaynerMedia Weddings. They're absurdity. People that haven't been here for, like, lifelong friendships.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Totally. That's trust, man.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It's emotional safety Agency being built in Bali right now by Sean, Kaleo and Pansuda. Like, this is, like, in perpetuity. Like, I tell everybody it's like a framework. I totally agree. My big one. That's more practical. I like yours better. I hate that I have to be the straight man, but it's a good one for a lot of people. Listening is voluntary retention. Like, the way I judge Vayner is how many people that I really give a fuck about that I think are awesome people and are awesome at their job have left Vayner. The number is staggeringly low. I know we got something.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, totally.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know, thank you for the question, brother.

[Caller Khaled]

Gary, just a tough point. Google did a study of effective teams.

[Caller Royce]

And they called it Project Aristotle.

[Caller Khaled]

And it kills if he was the biggest piece of making a successful team. So it's backed by research.

[Caller Royce]

Google actually makes sense.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It makes sense. It makes sense, brother. But here's the problem. Google's stuck because they're a publicly traded company, and that's why they have the entire company walk out on them. They're stuck. Guys, life is binary as a business. Either you care more about the money or more about the feeling you feel in running it. I would be fired by every publicly traded if. If Vayner went public, I'd be fired, fired fast. I have easily taken this business from 40 to 140 million in revenue and 200 over the kind of holding company. And I'm making way less money today than we did at 40.

[Tom Bilyeu]

God, that's so interesting, and I really hope people are listening. No, no, no, for real, hold on. Because that, dude, that's the juice. Once you understand that in your life, motherfuckers, you're either going to be chasing money or you're gonna be chasing fulfillment. And nary the twain shall meet. And when you. When you chase fulfillment, you may also build a massive fucking company.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'm gonna do both. I always say, and I'm making up the rules that I'm gonna be the best entrepreneur because I'm gonna make the most money and have the most impact on other entrepreneurs.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. No, I love that. And I think there's a third part to that that I clearly see in your company and is literally the cornerstone of impact theory, and that is people over everything. It's the connection that each person feels, the trust from that will be able to do something extraordinary. Because when you believe in people, your guard is down. You're emotionally invested. Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Where does entitlement fall into it? Because I will tell you, one of the flaws in me running Vayner over the last seven years, and we've gotten a lot better in the last two years, and we're well on our way. But I definitely created a macro culture of entitlement because I had people over everything and I took everything on my head.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. So it's two things. One, it is absolute high standards. So you have to have standards explain what they are and know what people have to do in order to be in that sort of safety circle. And then the other is your boy Ray Dalio looking at your girl Lindsay down there. So Ray and his whole notion of say truth, hear truth. That. That is the one time I will say. When I read that book, it changed me forever as an entrepreneur because it was a failure of my imagination to believe that you could hold thousands of people in an organization to. And this is how he says it, and this is so true. Even if you have a criticism that you're prepared to take to the grave that you don't even say to your significant other, you still have an obligation to voice that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's super fascinating because that is absolutely not a strength of mine. Radical candor is something I continue to evolve into. It just doesn't. You know, I'm really great when shit comes natural to me. Like, I. I just don't like money, and I will use money, and I will. And I'm really emotionally strong. I will help other people emotionally. Like, it's really funny. Radical candor. And that even to that level is absurd. No question. Is a strength of his and others that I haven't had. And now I've gotten dramatic. My brother had. AJ's was much better at it. Naturally, I've Gotten a lot, lot better. And it's been a strength of mine. Look, today we fired somebody that it fucking. I've been thinking about it for nine days. Super not pumped. I feel like shit right now, but if I don't do it, the whole fucking thing crumbles.

[Caller Khaled]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It gets toxic for other people.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So people over everything doesn't mean keeping people around, even though you've manipulated your own self in believing they're better off with you than not with you.

[Tom Bilyeu]

True. But here's part of why I say people over everything. And it doesn't mean that I'm just gonna let you get away with murder. It's like you've got the collective, and for the collective to have trust and all of that, then they have to know that if somebody isn't living up to it, they're not carrying their end of the bargain, that they're gonna be let go, like simple as. But that it's gonna be done openly and respectfully and that you're gonna help them transition out gracefully. Unless somebody's just, like, willfully horrible.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That happens too.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

This is where ego of hiring is a vulnerability. Like, people hire people, they end up being awful, and they don't want to admit they made the mistake, and they keep them around for sure.

[Caller Khaled]

Yeah.

[Caller Royce]

Hello.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Khalid?

[Caller Khaled]

Yeah. Yeah, this is Khaled.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Khaled, it's Gary Vaynerchuk. You're on the AskGaryVee show with Tom Bilyeu.

[Caller Khaled]

L.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Gary, life is good, my man.

[Caller Khaled]

Thanks for having me on your show. I really, really appreciate it. I'm gonna get straight to the point because I know your time is really expensive. I just had a question. You know, this is something to do with my life. I've been in the exotic car business for a very long time, and, you know, it's a very expensive business to get into. As someone in my shoes, you know, an entrepreneur, you know, don't have, you know, a lot of funding behind me at all, actually. So I have a large list of contacts. I've been networking for a long time. If not the grades you make, the hands you shake. So I met a lot of people, a lot of celebrities. You know, a list celebrities, you know, music, artists, all walks of life. And I've been doing this for about 10 years. I'm 26 now, so I've been in the game for about 10 years.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Dude, how the hell do you not have an Instagram link at the bottom of your website? When you're in the most visual and.

[Caller Khaled]

Kind of exotic car world, you know, I definitely. I have a really nice Instagram. I mean, I haven't.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You have a nice website with some fucking exotic fucking animal on top of a cool car, but you have literally the Facebook and Twitter logo at the bottom, but not the Instagram one.

[Caller Khaled]

I know. So that was actually a dealership that I worked for.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Got it.

[Caller Khaled]

I'm currently working for myself now. It's basically a broker respect. And now I'm working by myself and brokering deals, you know, taking clients because clients come back for me. They don't come back. Exactly.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So what's the question?

[Caller Khaled]

My question is now, basically, I have the experience, I have the clients, you know, the demand is there. I'm getting called every time, you know, concerts in town, anything. Celebrities need cars for rentals, they want to buy new cars. I'm trying to figure out, how do I get to the next level, Gary, as far as getting funding to start a company like that. How do I find investors who have the capital and are looking for, you know, that kind of a business.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Your entire fucking life is interacting with people that have that kind of money.

[Caller Khaled]

And, you know, that's very true, Gary. I mean, I meet people who are billionaires, I mean, all sorts of people. But here's the biggest, you know, thing I have to overcome. Overcome. I feel like every time this is an objection is that I'm young. I don't have, like, per se, a track record.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Brother, the number one. The number one mistake that people make in life, let alone business, is they say no for the other party without asking word.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like now. Now if you, you know, like, you know, look, I have empathy. I hate asking anybody for anything. So you've got these clients. It doesn't feel appropriate from transitioning to, you just rented them out something, and you now you're like, hey, give me a million bucks. But inevitably, you've now interacted with some fucking ballers. An eighth time, a tenth time. Some of them have even shown a liking towards you because they see them. Tom and I, I'm sure, do this just knowing him a little bit. Like when we see ourselves in people, you just gravitate towards it. Cause you're just always very aware that circumstances helped you so much. And so I'm always in the business of helping somebody out when it feels right. You just live it that way, right? That's just the fucking game. Look, brother, you're gonna have to ask somebody for the money, right? And a kid like you, who's more like a kid like me, you're not gonna get it from traditional VCs. They don't invest in shit like this. And we don't have the pedigree to get money from those people. You have the pedigree to get money from other hustlers for sure.

[Caller Khaled]

Well, here goes nothing. Gary, you ready to invest in my company or what?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

A hundred thousand percent? Not. Here's why. You must have either missed it a few minutes ago or you skipped over it. I literally just said 11 minutes ago that I hate fucking investing.

[Caller Khaled]

I know. I'm just messing with you.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I know you are.

[Caller Khaled]

I really appreciate you having me on your show. And I did want to tell you, you know, I never kept it above me to do other side hustles like going to garage sales or picking up lion birds and scooters and charging. I mean, I've been doing all the things that you have, you know, trying to save up money and invest.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Good for you, man. Look, there's a lot of. There's a lot of your vibe that's interesting, man. Like, you come from an industry that I'm always, like, scared of. It's the slickiest of the slick. But you're articulating yourself, even like in my intuitive feelings, which I go by all the time.

[Caller Khaled]

Look, man, listen, I really appreciate that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Let me say something to everybody who's listening. The reason so many kids are starting companies and want to get venture capital is if they fail, they don't have to pay anybody back.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I think there's another reason.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

There's a lot of reasons, but this is one that nobody talks about. Tom.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, fair.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You give up 25% of your company. The amount of people that I think are starting companies, startups that already know on day one that they have no chance of success is remarkably high. But the capital they raise allows them to live the lifestyle with no damage to their credit. There's too much fucking money in the system. Here's why I'm telling you that if you really believe in yourself, bro, and you've been doing something for 10 years, and this is gonna brain fuck everybody on my team. I hate when people have credit card debt. Like it's my freak out of freak out, right? Or debt in general, I will tell you that I've been at my best when I knew that I was operating, not taking any chance. And when I'm willing to do that, I'm willing to do anything to get the money. Like fucking loan shark shit. Like Mafioso breaks my life shit. You know why? Because if I understand the interest and I understand I can figure it out even if I'm paying 50% interest, let alone 5. The days of getting money from the bank, people don't think about that anymore. But let me give you where I'm actually going. You know how many kids should be asking their parents for money or their rich aunt? A lot. The problem is they're not thinking about it. Right. They need to walk into their rich aunt and say, aunt Sally, I need 150k, but I will pay you back. And if it dies, I will then get a job and I will pay you back 5,000 bucks every quarter for the rest of my fucking life. People are not putting their fucking balls on the line. People aren't doing that anymore. Everybody wants to raise money and give up 20% of a company worth nothing. You don't have to risk it when you're delirious. The reason I'm giving you this advice is you've been doing it for a decade. You feel intuitively right to me. So I'm saying to you, do what Tom and I did and live the practical life, not this bullshit life. Live the practical life, man.

[Caller Khaled]

I. And you know what? That was the first step for me to move forward, is to stop trying to live up to everybody's expectations, stop looking at everybody else and humble myself and actually have my friend move in, you know, split the rest, you know, share studio.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Humility, you know, humility. For the alpha male and woman in their 20s, humility is the secret fucking sauce.

[Tom Bilyeu]

But now let's push it. Did you actually do that?

[Caller Khaled]

Yeah, I did. Because here's the thing. I was always trying to buy the most expensive stuff because that's what you were looking at everybody. When I stopped doing that, and I just focused on myself and I accepted myself for what position I'm in. And I'm like, okay, Khaled, you're fucking shit in the toilet right now.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Keep going, Khaled. Yes.

[Caller Khaled]

You know, you need to. You need to get your stuff together. All living costs down.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes.

[Caller Khaled]

And just, like, do every little side hustle that I can, can maximize my time now that I'm working for myself. So I could do a bunch of little stuff. You know, at night, I'm doing the scooters. I mean, I'm doing 40, 50 scooters a night. We're going to garage sales, picking up stuff free off Craigslist. You know, I'm marketing stuff online for people, Google Ads, Instagram. I'm doing a bunch of stuff. And I have my cousin and are you happy? And he's Helping me.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And you're happy.

[Caller Khaled]

You know what? I'm very happy. Because.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So then real quick, this real quick, because there's a lot of bubbling up of, like, gary, you're pushing people to work too hard and all this stuff. And I'm watching it. I'm like, I love when elitists who work their faces off to make a bunch of money then tell everybody else not to work hard.

[Tom Bilyeu]

That's the bullshit anyway.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So to me, if you love what you're doing and you're happy and you're mentally and physically healthy, do you. I'm not judging anybody about doing anything, but it's all about self awareness and putting a framework around where you don't keep up with the Joneses.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, I want to put my finger on something. So, dude, your vibe changed so much when you got into the pocket on where you're confident. Humans lead with belief. In the beginning, you. You didn't have that belief because you're stretching for the fancy cars and all that. But when you slid back to, I'm living in a studio apartment with, you know, six other dudes, I believed in you. And if you came to me with that hustle and you're like, look, motherfucker, I have boiled my life down to nothing. I have no expenses. I eat top ramen, and I grind it the fuck out from the floor of my friend's bathroom. I will make this shit if you give me money. I will spend the rest of my life paying you back if it fails. And you have that belief because you actually believe it, you know it's true. You know you can do that. And you're operating from a position of strength. Strength. Now, just your energy is gonna convince people to get on board with you. But when you try to posture, hustle, like, from a place that's not real, that's where people don't buy into you.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And the beauty is like. That's what I sense, like, the whole time, dude. This is really cool, by the way. This is the kissing cousin to why I want kids to stop taking money from their parents. It all comes down to the same thing. It's called fake environments. Either you live on your merit or you don't. The end.

[Caller Khaled]

I've been on my own since I was 15, and I'm very thankful for it because my parents instilled me with the right morals and the right hustle at a young age. And then I, you know, was forced to be a man on my own. And I work, mechanic, shop, and I sticked in the Car thing for a long time, clearly. So it's like my passion too. So it goes hand in hand. I enjoy everything that I do. Doesn't feel like work, even when I'm working.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Awesome, man. Thank you for the call. Fake environments. I want to wrap up with this. Okay. You get it? Because last time Scooter made us do another call and it turned out so awesome.

[Andy]

Someone wants an internship with Tom, but we're not gonna call them.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Okay, got it. Tom. I'm so about this fake environments. If I can convince people that credit cards are bad, that parents money is bad, that posturing is bad, the happiness is absurd. The happiness is absurd.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Also, I want to get people on obsessive thinking. So one of the things people always ask me, okay, what's your secret to your success? I normally say reading, but I'll say that there's actually something else I do that people. It's hard to articulate, but here it goes. There's a great question that Peter Thiel asks. How do you take your 10 year plan and make it happen in six months? So if you obsessively think about, how do I accelerate this? Like, how do I. What's that? Quantum leap forward. And for him to be thinking about that, like the collapsing down to very little expense so that he can get into a place that's actually winning, win with that. Build like a package up that he can go pitch to people and say, like, look, I only want whatever. I want to flip more scooters, whatever. So he's getting in at, you know, a thousand or ten thousand instead of, you know, four hundred thousand. Then he can build that momentum and you just keep going upstream, upstream, upstream.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Lack of patience.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. What's interesting, you and I disagree on the use of the word patience, like so violently. So my thing is, fuck patience, literally. But the thing is, I always tell people, I know what Gary means, and Gary means play the long game. Patience, micro speed, a thousand percent. The problem is when people hear patients, they get in a passive mode. Yes. So fucking psychotic, brother.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You use the word passive though.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, exactly. You can't let people get into a passive situation.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The words patience, not passive.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, but what I'm saying is when people hear that word out of anyone's mouth, I understand, they go in the.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Wrong direction of everybody semantically articulating the manipulation of words to their non meaning.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It's interesting. So here's how, like, I love when people.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like, I love like, like the amount of judgment that is being thrown at me right now in circles around People manipulating the words that I'm like, it's absurd. Patience is not passive.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So my thing is, how do people react to it?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I couldn't agree more. But the reality is if we are now in a place where we can't allow the words to actually mean what they mean, we have to challenge that conversation as well. Because now you're getting into how people filter everything and now we're talking about the most important P which is perspective. If their filter is taking it, then that's what gets so interesting about having to do this one on one versus through content. Content is vulnerable in its macro. It's super interesting shit.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Very interesting. And I that on this particular thing, like I'll say forget the words because you and I are saying the same thing. So the last thing I want to do is argue that when we get to the point thousand percent.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And I'm with you.

[Tom Bilyeu]

My thing is how do you get people to realize that momentum is the thing that I think matters. So if you. Have you ever been in like an above ground swimming pool, you can start walking in a circle and it's creates the vortex and then you can pick your feet up and it just.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The whole thing I was talking to you about that I gotta walk you through of like what you need to do for your studio to like win the world literally internally for a few minutes was called momentum marketing.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Nice.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

We can't be believing more. Yeah, who is this Royce? Like Royce Clayton. If you know who Royce Clayton is, leave it in the comments. I forget that Google exists these days. I so grew up in a non Google world. Everyone's like, that's easy. He's the shortstop for the Giants.

[Caller Royce]

Hello, this is Royce.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Royce, it's Gary Vaynerchuk and you're on the AskGaryVee show with Tom Bilyeu. Oh my God.

[Caller Khaled]

Holy shit.

[Caller Royce]

I was listening to you guys live. Oh my God, it's so cool.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

How you doing, Royce? Where are you from, Royce?

[Caller Royce]

Cincinnati, Ohio.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Are you a Bengals fan?

[Caller Khaled]

Oh, big time.

[Caller Royce]

The jets can frig on off your cursing.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Could use some upping in your game, but I appreciate it, man. You do know that the jets beat the Bengals in a huge playoff game in Cincinnati in 2010, right?

[Caller Royce]

Oh, oh, I'm sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Clearly you do not. All right, go ahead.

[Caller Royce]

I mean, yeah. Wait, Andy, I put in like a couple questions.

[Caller Khaled]

Which question?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Which one do you want, Andy?

[Andy]

The ones that you said Tom and Gary different on.

[Caller Royce]

Oh, yeah, Tom, I love your stuff too. I listen and watch a lot of impact theory.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Love It.

[Caller Khaled]

I saw you.

[Caller Royce]

Sorry, I listened to you on the Joe Rogan experience a couple months ago and you mentioned how you heard how some people believe that you have to be a natural born entrepreneur or you can turn into one. If you have entrepreneurial tendencies and you disagreed with the fact that a lot of people out there believe that you have to be a natural born entrepreneur. I was wondering. I know, Gary, you always say how you're only a natural born entrepreneur. There's no thought if you've ever worked a job in your life that you could be one. So I guess what were you? Can you be a natural born entrepreneur? Can you become an entrepreneur? Or do you have to be a natural born one?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, good news, I'll lose this right now because everybody's an entrepreneur now and most of them are not natural born entrepreneurs. Now let's talk about people that are successful entrepreneurs and not successful entrepreneurs.

[Tom Bilyeu]

That's fair.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's a big deal. Then there's also people bleeding entrepreneurship with operators. So I think operators are something that could be taught. And those individuals, she and he, are incredible COOs, co founders, as the number two guys, there is a mental strength that comes along with, you're the last line of the fence. That is by definition what entrepreneurship is built around. That I do think we underestimate in what is like comes natural. But I think that being a successful entrepreneur is more of a skill than a taught behavior. In the framework of my perspective, being taught to be an operator is I see every day. Most great COOs are people that were taught to be an operator. Many of them are considered co founders but would have not been successful without the energy of the human that was there to eat the pressure and actually lead the company is how I see it, Tom.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. So this is one that I have lived the exact opposite. So I started out, my parents taught me to be a good employee, to keep my head down, do as little work as possible, and avoid punishment at all costs. I had a newspaper route. I was too afraid to go knock on the doors to collect the money. So for like two years, I delivered the paper for half the money I could have gotten. I never stole somebody's flowers out of the yard and sold them back. Like, none of that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So, but then to get what I wanted, which was to make films on my terms, I had to generate the capital to generate the capital.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Lambos to do that.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Why do I need lambos?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, you said earlier you were like, you were into some of the flashy stuff.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I get why other people chase you weren't? No, I was chasing. I wanted money to build a studio. Got it. So I knew that I had to learn a certain set of skills. Now my whole thing comes down to humans are the ultimate adaptation machine. Literally, what we do is adapt. That is our design. So you can take. There was a woman who swam the bearing straight and she turned, literally over a year of cold exposure turned white adipose tissue, which is the fat, into what's called brown adipose tissue, which generates more heat. Now, people will believe it at the body. Right. Nobody's here telling me that I'm crazy for that. So easy to show people that you can change your body, but for some reason, people don't think that you can change the mind.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So let me ask you a weird question. First of all, I completely only believe you can change the mind, which is now going to get into an interesting semantic.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So keep going.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, no, no. I'm sorry. I'm going to go. Keep going. But you're going to know, but you're going to appreciate. You're going to answer. Does that mean everybody's born a natural born entrepreneur? That means everybody is.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It means everybody that meets minimum requirements. And we will have to talk about that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Okay, so that gets. That's fine. That gets into a different place.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. So if you meet minimum requirements and some people do not.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But what if you're Hakeem Elijah? Yeah. What if you, Tom, are actually Akeem Olajuwon?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Okay.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So Akeem Olajuwon is born in Africa, doesn't realize he's a natural great basketball player because he's not exposed to it, but actually was born a natural. Like, what if you actually were? Just because the environment you were in.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So you're saying I was a natural born entrepreneur just in a weird environment?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Because that's where I'm going with this, which is you were an environment where your parents created the environment to eliminate the entrepreneurial. Right. Spirit. But that it was down deep in there. And more importantly, just because ripping flowers back to. First of all, you had a paper route.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Let's break that down for a minute.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Okay.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Maybe you were scared of asking for money just like the last kid, but let's really, really talk about it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yep.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The fuck were you doing with a paper route?

[Tom Bilyeu]

In my family, you had to have a job.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Cool.

[Tom Bilyeu]

My parents made me get a paper out.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Did they make you get a paper out or did you have more than one choice? Tom, now this is very important.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I don't remember.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Fair enough.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I don't remember to me. Well, here, let's answer that question. So let's assume for a second that I'm secretly a born entrepreneur in a bad environment, which I'm very.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Okay, not a bad environment. It's bad for entrepreneurship.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Sure. Great environment that. I have no beef with that. So my thing is knowing that people can either good environment, be trained, and bring out those natural inclinations or not. My thing is figure out what you want to do and then go down the path of gaining mastery. In that. In that all will be revealed.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I got it. I apologize. Now I'm being selfish because this is so fun hanging with you. Fear. Yeah, right? Fear is an incredible part of all of this.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

When, when and how did you start taking fear out of the equation? Because that's the transition you made.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I don't know. I would never say that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I would.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Like, fear for me is a constant.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So you feared asking people for money?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Definitively cool.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Later. You didn't?

[Tom Bilyeu]

No, I still do.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Interesting. Me too. By the way. This is the weirdest part of me. One of the reasons I didn't finish off raising my fund is because I hate asking people for money. But I don't know if I fear it. I just hate it. I hate. I hate anybody having leverage. That's really what I'm all about.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. I'd really have to sit down and think about the semantics of whether I just hate it or I fear it. But there are definitely things that I do that I fear and I move. I use fear as a guidepost of where to move. Because my fundamental assumption is humans adapt via stress. So you're restrictions are.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And adversity are such an incredible framework.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Right. And those are the things.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Oh, by the way, the biggest reason I want to talk about real and fake entrepreneurs right now. You know why? There's no fucking restrictions to being an entrepreneur. Not only in money, but in the bio of your fucking Instagram account.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Right?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

This is it. This is the punchline. Unlike, you know, you and I are so fucking similar. I like, have so much fun with it because that means I love you so much because fuck, I love myself.

[Tom Bilyeu]

That was amazing.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, but I'm serious, by the way, self love is super, like the greatest gift. By the way, loving yourself doesn't mean you're delusional and think you're great. Like, self awareness is the foundation of loving yourself. I love myself for the things that I am and I'm not. And it's super important. Like how uncomfortable in the same way that people were uncomfortable Talking about mental health. We need to start making it comfortable for people who like themselves to talk about it because it will encourage other people to realize liking yourself isn't ego or delusion. It's grounded in self awareness.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. Here's the thing. You, your superpowers, you don't judge yourself.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You're right.

[Tom Bilyeu]

That became very clear to me. And I think that's amazing by the way you nail.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And you know what else not judging yourself does? You don't judge other people either. So you end up liking a lot more people. You motherfuckers are judging. Last night, I spent 98 hours consuming judgment. People fucking judge. We're doing this post election. People judge. Who the fuck. You have no context of what's going on in somebody's bedroom or, most important, in their head. You're right. I don't judge myself because I know what my intent is. I'm obsessed with intent. It's insane how much I love everybody here if I know their intent. Once I wrap my head around one's intent, it's game over. It's like fucking binary switch. And I'm going to bat for them in perpetuity. For me, outside of me, with me, against me. If I think somebody's a good person and they're literally my direct competitor, I weirdly, secretly root for them in some weird way. Because if they're better than me, they deserve to win.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I was so pumped when I was with all the super angels and Scott Belsky and Chris Sacca had better invest in me. I had a great investing career. They were better. And I love talking about it. Right? I fucking love talking about it. They deserve it. That's what I love about sports, man. None of this bullshit of, like, our entrepreneur. Entrepreneurship's amazing. You know why nobody can judge it. It's all hidden, man. God, do I want the world to melt. You know why people are confused? Everybody thinks I want the world to melt because I do a bad job communicating, because I like keeping a lot of shit in that I'm gonna take advantage of it. I want the world to melt because people are gonna be happier.

[Tom Bilyeu]

That's really interesting, Tom.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

People are in fake environments. No, listen, this is why Tom's smart, man. He gets it. He gets it right away. I'm serious. People are gonna be happier because everybody's living a fake life right now and keeping up with the Joneses. And when everything melts, everybody gets back to the right. Not paying the Piper in 2009 in America for the economic melting and going through seven years of recession and us propping up fucked our culture in a way that nobody talks about.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Have you read the Stand by Stephen King?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I don't read shit.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Of course, I already knew the answer.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Here we go.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, because it literally speaks to exactly this. The center character of the book is somebody who's just popping off as a musician right when this world ending flu happens. But the guy survives. And so he goes from everybody loves me, they're treating me well, I've got free cocaine. And then now no one knows who the I am. And that whole machinery that was about to make me like the biggest thing in the planet just fell out from under him. And he's solo and what's not solo because there's, you know, enough people to survive. But he realizes, like all that that he was chasing, now that just doesn't exist. So there's like this simplification of life. And to your point, as he gets beyond that hunger for the fame and the adulation and just has to deal with staying alive, like his life actually gets better.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I love this shit. So, God, can I not wait for the economic meltdown? Because it's the beginning of happiness at a bigger scale.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It's interesting. So the. The comic book that we wrote for Neon Future is literally about that. So I wanted to start post economic meltdown, look at how people react, and.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Then superhero better look like me because I believe in it the most.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Right? We'll have to work that in, Gary. We'll have to work that in.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Caesar search wrong. Did we answer my man's question?

[Andy]

What do you think?

[Caller Royce]

Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, for sure.

[Caller Khaled]

I did have.

[Caller Royce]

I did have one other question that's just been like, on me for about a month or so.

[Caller Khaled]

So that's it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So I'm hanging up. That's not that long. I'm good. Go ahead. Go fast.

[Caller Khaled]

Okay.

[Caller Royce]

So my other question I submitted. You know, I'm busy. You know, I get in the dirt, I guess you could say. I just graduated from college and I'm working for actually a startup here in Cincinnati as business development and being around this environment. I'm listening to you, Gary and Tom. I truly believe I have a lot of entrepreneurial tendencies. So, you know, I'm building my personal brand and, you know, just, I guess documenting, you know, things that I believe and things that I'm learning, you know, throughout Life, just through LinkedIn and blogging.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Good. So you're documenting more than posturing, right?

[Caller Royce]

Yeah, no, I'm not faking it. You know, I'm letting People know if I don't know something, so I'm in the dirt. But I know you also say to try as many things as possible in your age, taste as many things, remember?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And this is what is hard about advice and putting out content. People start blending it. And that's why I have a lot of empathy for your patience thing. When kids ask me, I have no idea what I want to do, Gary. I don't know what I like. The only practical answer to that is like, yo, bro, hey gal, go taste some shit. It sounds like you have a better feel of what you like, and thus you don't have to quit this startup and be a sous chef, right?

[Caller Royce]

No, I guess I get. And then my. My final question in that is, you know, I. In doing this, I have a lot of people ask me, why are you doing this? What are you doing? You're like, what are you trying to.

[Caller Khaled]

Get out of it?

[Caller Royce]

Or where you see? Or what are you trying to be in 30 in 10 years?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Tell them to go fuck themselves. Who gives a shit? You don't know. You don't fucking know. Ask, brother. The next time somebody says, where you going to be at 30? Or where do you see yourselves in 5 years or 10 years? Look them dead in the face and say, what about you? Do you know how many miserable fucking 54 year olds there are? Most?

[Tom Bilyeu]

And I'll give you a slightly different take on that. And I'll say that skills have utility, man. This is something that people don't think about. Like, you're gonna spend years developing a skill set. That skill set is going to let you do something. And so what do you want to be able to do? And that's the thing to me about adaptation, about anybody being an entrepreneur or not. It's like, it's just about skill, actually acquisition. The difference between where I was when I didn't know what the fuck I was doing as an entrepreneur and now when I do, is I've learned a set of skills that apply themselves in the real world either. Influencing other people, getting them pointed in the same direction, creating momentum, knowing how to sell, knowing how to market a thousand weird tech.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

How old are you?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Thousand percent. 42.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And you're young as.

[Tom Bilyeu]

As fuck.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

When are you 43?

[Tom Bilyeu]

March.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Great. So I'm four months older. Okay, fine. So listen, Royce, do you understand?

[Caller Royce]

Oh, absolutely.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, no, but do you like, like, who gives a fuck why they're asking, bro? People asking questions like that, it's fascinating to me. I've been really watching this, obviously, like the amount of people that ask that question, sheerly out of misery, loves company, has been one of the most fascinating things for me to observe.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I think people also terrified they're gonna miss out on something. And it's the only thing that you have is today. So if you're worried about today and you take care of today, 10 years from now is gonna take care of itself. What do you fucking love doing right now? What do you want to get great at right now?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You're so right. Because you're not gonna know the alternative. There's no weird video game where you pick a path, but then you get to rewind it and watch what would have happened. Like, if you go, start, start, go to move to the company's headquarters in Afghanistan or go to work to a different friend in Cincinnati or move to the big city of New York, Royce, you're not going to know how it would have worked out.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And if it sucks, switch it up. Like, that's the thing that drives me nuts. Here's how I think entrepreneurs need to think of themselves. You're standing in a room with a thousand doors. Your job Is to close 999 of them and walk through one. People are so paralyzed by all the opportunity cost of actually having to shut a door that they never make a decision. Make a decision, even if it's fucking terrible. Dude, mistakes are the most information rich data stream there is. Standing still is the only problem.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Dude, I make decisions so fast, it scares the fuck out of everybody around me. Yeah, seriously, I'm just making decisions. Like the end.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yep. And that, my friend, is why you win.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You can add value to the show.

[Andy]

It's 100% true. A decision that the team's debating for days on end. Gary answers in two seconds, and all of us walk out of the room feeling very confident.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Here's the thing. Even if you didn't, it's better to have a decision and be able to go try than to sit there and fucking talk about it.

[Andy]

Thus, why he can do it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The I love losing. This is what. This is how it all works together. I love when I made the wrong decision. I'm not gonna do that decision in that circumstance if I recognize. Recognize it again.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Right?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I think of entrepreneurs as athletes that don't have a limit to their body. So it's like, it's one thing if you know you're only going to be in the NFL for four years because your body can't take the tax when you're going to be in it forever. It's like, yeah, if you fuck this play up, you make a mistake and how you're going to get more powerful.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

More science than people realize. Like you're learning from the nose. It's a data point. You build on top of it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

For sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'm insanely better than I was at 22, which would blow the 22 year old me out of the water because I thought I was the best then experience fucking matters. And what the 22 year old named Royce doesn't know is that 42 year old Tom feels exactly the way Royce does right this second. Because when you're doing what you love and you're in that zone, I feel way younger than 99% of the 22 year olds that are unhappy.

[Tom Bilyeu]

That is for sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's fucking true. True, man.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And just the energy level, like, that's the thing. And I know you get a lot of criticism for it. I get a lot of criticism for how many hours I work. And I'm like, motherfuckers, are you not listening? Like, here's the punchline.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Happiness.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I work that hard because I'm having fun.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Happiness. I don't want to go skiing, dick face. I do not want to go skiing. I do not want to go to a beer garden. It is not fun for me to go look at a museum. I am not interested in. In watching Netflix. I am not interested. That doesn't mean that I think everybody else should do that. And I've said consistently, self awareness, happiness. I've said it a million fucking times. Do I believe in hustle? Yes, I do. I like work ethic. It's controllable. Do I want that to put you into depression or health scares? Yeah, of course not, dick face. Of course not. But don't sit on a pedestal after you fucking worked hard for 15 years and then tell all these kids that they should have work life balance. You fucking elitist.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, dude, I'm. Yeah. If that's not. Be a hypocrite.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Do not be a fucking hypocrite. Do not be a hypocrite if you make 47,000. I only talk what I live. Right? Just like. So I got really scared when you're like when you transition on that one debate we were having a little bit there and you're like, weird. Cause I just lived the actual opposite. I'm like, fuck. Because it's the number one thing I believe in. I hate when people work 11 years on their startup, work their faces off. I watch them grind and then they hit and then they're sitting on money, and they're in that part of their life, and then the advice they're giving isn't what they lived. I want to hear from people publicly that made 47,000 a year their whole life and are happy as shit. Go talk about that. We're talking about happiness. People are using mental health as a weapon to make themselves look good, just like nonprofits. You might be tricking the 99%, but you're not tricking the 1%, partner. Cool. Thanks, Royce. Tom. Dude. Dude. It's a great episode.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It was amazing, man.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Tom, you get to ask the question of the day.

[Tom Bilyeu]

There's only one, at least from my perspective.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Can't wait to hear it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

What is the impact you want to have on the world? Because baby chasing fulfillment, that's the game.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That is the motherfucking roi. Thank you, brother.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You got it. Thank you.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You keep asking questions, will keep answering them. Book Tom for speaking. Awesome. Hey, everybody. If you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention, and thanks for being part of this journey. See you later.