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- [00:00]
Gary Vaynerchuk
This is the GaryVee audio experience.
- [00:05]
Pat McAfee
Man. Welcome to the show. Today, a serial entrepreneur advisor, very outspoken about the land, the media landscape, consumer habits. Real one, someone I learned a lot from. He saves me a lot of reading. I appreciate him. Welcome to the show. Gary Vee, my brother. We appreciate you spending some time with us. We were kind of just talking before we get going. We were talking about how busy you are and you're taking some time to jump on some shows and be interviewed and I guess give the world some more game. What are the benefits you see from doing that? Because you are someone that gives so much great information and you're always ahead of the curve when you sit down and you allow people like us and some of the other interviews you've done. What, how does that benefit what you do?
- [00:54]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I think it scratches kind of my selfish and selfless, you know, needs. Selfishly. Like there's people who've never heard of me that are going to listen, I'm going to drop something of value, I hope. And I'm like, damn, let me look into that guy. And that may lead to a million different things, right? They may buy a bottle of wine from my dad's wine store or they, they may just say something good about me, which I'm very big on, like, karma, reputation. There might be some people watching right now that don't fuck with me. They' you know, because they didn't like something I stood on or something else. But they love you guys so much and we chop it up, maybe we'll talk a little ball. I'll show other sides of me. The host will always take you to a place that you don't normally go. And they may be like, wait, you know what? Fuck it.
- [01:39]
Pat McAfee
He's.
- [01:39]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I, you know, like, it could be that. And then, and then selflessly, like, I've been living on guilt and gratitude a long time. You know, I was, you know, just. You guys, it's fun to say this to athletes. You guys were gifted with something we all wish we had, which was the athletic ability to play at the highest levels. A lot of us were like that. I was like that. I wish. Third, fourth grade, my hand eye was so off the charts. I'm like, yo, I'm gonna be an athlete. You know, by sixth grade, though, I was like, damn, I'm gonna own a team, not play. You know, and so, you know, because athleticism, size, speed, all that shit started to come in. But at the end of the day, I, I really feel so grateful for the gifts I was given. And that is, you know, yes. All my entrepreneurial gifts and talents. But I have a real fortunate perspective. I keep it really cool in the middle, you know, it's really funny. Like, sometimes I'll watch, like, extreme left and extreme right personalities and politicians follow me on the same day. Cause I feel I'm very purple. I'm not scared to talk my truth. I'm not scared to be misunderstood for a minute. I'm desperately trying to be historically correct. And so, yeah. And I enjoy. And plus, I enjoy people, you know, it's funny. You can see I'm already looking at them as much as I'm looking at y'. All. Like, I just like chopping it up. And I'm grateful to be here.
- [02:57]
Pat McAfee
Well, we appreciate your time. How's life? What's going on with you right now?
- [03:01]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Well, I'm a diehard Knicks fan.
- [03:02]
Pat McAfee
Okay.
- [03:02]
Gary Vaynerchuk
So life is, like, right now.
- [03:05]
Chris Mannix
You and your bag.
- [03:07]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Real good. In fact, back to, like, traveling a lot. I've never spoken in San Antonio in my life. And I've spoken everywhere. And I saw the schedule, and I'm like, motherfucker, I'm in San Antonio for Game 3 of the NBA Finals. Which sucks. Cause I'm usually in the Garden. So that's a problem. And I don't like to cancel, so I won't cancel. And two, I'm like, shit, that's it. We're playing San Antonio. And then after. You know, we're filming this after the game. The game one. And like, I'm like, that's gonna be. It's. It's written. It's, Nick, you gotta go. And the last. You know, obviously, my last NBA Finals was Knick Spurs. That didn't work out super well.
- [03:42]
Chris Mannix
You can't miss that game. You gotta be there.
- [03:44]
Pat McAfee
Jack was just begging on camera earlier today about getting some. Some courtside. So maybe you and Jack can enjoy.
- [03:50]
Chris Mannix
Yeah. I mean, shit, I won a championship there. They should offer me some goddamn seats, to be honest.
- [03:55]
Gary Vaynerchuk
He's shooting shots right away. I'm already hurting because I remember that series very well. Very well. It's, like, too soon. And it was fucking 27 years ago. Yeah, things are good. Everyone's healthy. Back to, like, simple perspective. I'm not joking about the Knicks thing. Sports is my great outlet. Always feels real good. I was up in Springfield, Mass. At the Basketball hall of Fame this weekend. My son was in an AAU tournament.
- [04:20]
Pat McAfee
Oh, cool. How old?
- [04:21]
Gary Vaynerchuk
He's 13.
- [04:22]
Pat McAfee
Okay. It's serious. AAU is.
- [04:24]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [04:24]
Gary Vaynerchuk
They got smacked up. They got Put in the wrong fucking bracket.
- [04:28]
Chris Mannix
That's time consuming.
- [04:29]
Gary Vaynerchuk
They got. And they got smacked. But honestly, I was super happy. Like, you know, you got to see it. Well, that I love. And obviously those are memories forever. But, you know, I really do think adversity is the foundation of success. I really do. And, you know, when you lose 55 to nine.
- [04:45]
Pat McAfee
Yeah, no, I meant they had to see that kind of level of competition
- [04:48]
Gary Vaynerchuk
because I think he knows that, you know, the kids, they didn't grow up like us. They. My son knows every seventh grader that's
- [04:54]
Pat McAfee
going to the league.
- [04:55]
Gary Vaynerchuk
But social media, they know every. I have an agency. As you guys may know. We just started getting to basketball. We rep Brandon Miller, which is a good one.
- [05:02]
Pat McAfee
Yeah.
- [05:03]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And now we're getting serious and we're getting deep into the kid stuff. I'm using him to recruit 10th graders.
- [05:08]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [05:08]
Gary Vaynerchuk
He stays all day consuming all that AAU content. You know, he knows about Marcus Spears's son two years before I do.
- [05:16]
Chris Mannix
That's my little.
- [05:17]
Pat McAfee
We're just talking about him. He's.
- [05:18]
Gary Vaynerchuk
He's going to be nice. I'm just dropping some ball knowledge to make sure you all know. I know it.
- [05:23]
Pat McAfee
That's my little cousin.
- [05:24]
Chris Mannix
Look out for him.
- [05:25]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I'm clipping that receipt in three years when he goes number one overall.
- [05:28]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [05:28]
Pat McAfee
Let's talk about the Knicks.
- [05:30]
Chris Mannix
Let's.
- [05:30]
Pat McAfee
Let's. Let's talk about.
- [05:31]
Gary Vaynerchuk
That's really why I'm here.
- [05:32]
Pat McAfee
Okay. I mean, it's hot at the right time. We know playing in the league is. It's about getting hot at the right time. I think they won, what, seven straight first year coach Mike Brown. There's always been a knock. It's hard to win when your best player is a point guard. I think we can think of what Isaiah Thomas and Steph Curry. So Jalen Brunson is trying to break into that mold. Cleveland, scary team. But what do you think the chances are for you guys? And we'll just stay with the Eastern Conference first.
- [06:03]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I think it's really good. Like, and by the way, I wish you knew me like that. Like, I'm not really, like, blindly optimistic. Like, in fact, getting to the Western Conference. Like, I think we match up different with the Spurs. Like, OKC does not feel like a winnable series for me. Like, and so if I'm keeping it real, though, obviously I'm a delusional fan and you hope and dream, but if I'm keeping it real, real on wax. Cleveland, I feel good about, you know, because, you know, this like, and I don't even know why it happened. You guys are more knowledgeable than me. Like Detroit funked up in a. Like they fucked up too because they're out, but they funked up. They just like, it felt different. And I, and I was already on the. They're still a young team. Is this the time? You know, are they a year early? Obviously we beat them last year. It was a tough ass series I was at. I watched every minute of that series. Like I was tough, you know, those early couple games, it could have gone the other way. Knicks could have lost that series.
- [06:58]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [06:59]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I don't know why, but. But even in, you know, and I thought Orlando actually could beat them. And Orlando barely got in. They got blown out by the backup Celtics. And in my Knicks thread, if I pull up the receipts right now, I'm like, guys, I think Orlando because I thought Orlando could be big with them. What I didn't anticipate was Cleveland was able to be big with them and they did a lot of smart shit. The way they ran their offense the last couple of games to take a sore. Like Cleveland coached up and he can coach. They coached up. Right. So I think like the Casuals, like don't know about the adjust. This is what's, you know, even becoming an agent years ago with my brother starting an agency, it's crazy. Like I was a die hard knowledgeable fan, which is. You make fun of the Casuals that don't know. Then I got into the agency business and now I'm like, oh damn, I know more. And then like you guys really know. And so what I mean by that is I think Cleveland did a lot of good coaching. I think the Knicks understand themselves right now. But again, back to Atlanta. This is crazy how much this feels like 99. Like they swept the Hawks in round two and four games and blew them the fuck out in a way that I still. Every time I see Steve Smith anywhere, I smile. Cause I'm like, we fucked you guys up in 99 in that four game series. And they just ran it back against the Sixers. Obviously they were an 8 seed that year and it was crazy. And they stunned the heat in the first round.
- [08:22]
Chris Mannix
That was a half season, right? 99.
- [08:24]
Gary Vaynerchuk
That's right. It was a. You know, and. And they were Nate seed. And then Ewing got hurt, which took a lot of heat out of it for us. Especially as we saw the spurs were coming.
- [08:32]
Chris Mannix
Young Tim Duncan, he was just on St.
- [08:34]
Gary Vaynerchuk
It's crazy, the Wemby. I mean, I'm like This is some deja vu. Crazy.
- [08:38]
Chris Mannix
More athletic. Tim Duncan.
- [08:40]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Wemby is just, like, impossible to understand. And so, anyway, I think we match up well. It's funny. I got to give Cleveland some flowers. We did this to them several years ago. You. It's been my feeling about them that you can punk them. Like, you know, like. And I love, like, Demon. I love Spider. I love. But I've always like Mobley. Like, I was stunned how much we punked them three years ago. Two years ago, three years ago. I think we, like, we really punked them like that. Obviously, they're older. You know, back to Tim Duncan. When Mobley came out into the league, I'm like, damn, this guy could, like, really get there. He's that talented. He's shining. You know, what Donovan did in game seven, stepped up real proper. But I don't see Allen doing that. Like, Mitch and Kat Matter and Kat after that, going into game three, obviously, you saw what happened. We adjusted. The reason we won seven in a row and we're down 12 prior to that is they've made some tweaks. They're running more through Cat. You know, his favorite. His dad's favorite player is Magic Johnson. I think he's a little bit in his Magic Johnson. You guys know. You guys know it better than I do. Like, you can see he's happy about facilitating. That's a different. Different version. And he's a big boy. He's big, you know, like. And I. I think we're gonna have too much size for them.
- [09:54]
Chris Mannix
But the biggest thing y' all gonna have to guard the yard. They got two players that get to
- [09:58]
Pat McAfee
the basket at will, and they're gonna ISO Jalen Brunson as much as possible and make him work if New York
- [10:05]
Chris Mannix
guard the yard, because the way they played, the defense they played against Atlanta was unbelievable. That's why they just blew Atlanta out the water. Mike Brown had those guys. I went to my. The physical team, the more aggressive team. Cause I went to a game in Atlanta, and the way they was playing defense, it was at another level. So if they can do that against Cleveland.
- [10:21]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And by the way, that continued, I mean, like, Maxi Joel flopping all over the place and be the big boy. Like. Like, they played real D and Bridges woke up.
- [10:30]
Chris Mannix
Yep.
- [10:31]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I mean, it's all time again. You guys did this, too. Well, he's key.
- [10:34]
Pat McAfee
He's key.
- [10:35]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Deuce McBride's last game fucking hit eight three. Like, you know, like, Deuce was hurt quite a bit.
- [10:41]
Chris Mannix
Like, Mike Brown is due too he do too. Yeah, he's.
- [10:44]
Pat McAfee
Do I like to see. I mean because you know we've talked about, you know, Mike Brown's first year in spots is normally. Well, and it goes. And it kind of goes. It goes down instead of up.
- [10:56]
Gary Vaynerchuk
But that Clippers run was crazy.
- [10:58]
Pat McAfee
This could be a new. This could be a new situation for him. You know what I mean? And you went in New York. There's no. I mean what would it be? Let's just put it in the atmosphere now. Who cares if they play them? What would it mean if the Knicks got a championship?
- [11:11]
Chris Mannix
There's going to be a raid in
- [11:12]
Gary Vaynerchuk
every state, my friends. Has anybody watched the clips of when we win a regular playoff game? Like on some real shit. Let me give some flowers to Mike and the Mad Dog. For the youngsters that don't know or that are not around the New York Mike and the Mad Dog. Pre Internet, I'm 50. Pre Internet Mike and the Mad Dog sports radio 660, 24 hours was everything. Like I used to drive somewhere randomly just to listen to them. Mike Francesa maybe in 91 or 92, I was in high school. He said something that I've never forgotten. I'm recalling this shit 30 years later, 35 years later he was on this rant. You know what it was actually, I'm going deep in my bag. It's when the Knicks beat out of nowhere the bulls in Game 1 in Chicago when the Knicks were starting that Pat Riley run. We thought we're going to lose by 30. Bulls had just won a title. They were clearly going on to the next one. And we won game one in Chicago and Ewing was in his B. And I was like, I hated school my whole life. I could not wait to get to school the next day. Because everyone's a Bulls fan by the way.
- [12:28]
Unidentified Guest
If you.
- [12:28]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Everybody was a band. I don't know, you got nine camera. Anybody who was a Bulls bandwagon fan in the 90s that lived in like New York and Boston and Atlanta and la. I just have like a public service announcement. You're a like, like I don't like, you know, like I don't understand this. Like, like because you don't have enough self esteem for yourself, you need to get it from not you. And you're just jumping on bandwidth. So we had more Bull fans in my high school in Jersey than Knick fans or even. Cause, you know. And so I couldn't wait to get at them. But anyway, during that series it was all Ewing Starks might have Just Mason and Starks. This was not later. Also we loaded up in 93 and 94 with those guys. 92 season. It was Ewing, it was Gerald Wilkins guarding Jordan, you know, it was Oakley, it was, but it was Ewing. This is where like Ewing doesn't get his proper flag. It was Ewing and Ewing was the. He was the modern guy. Like he was seven foot. And by the way, he was a defensive player in college. He developed his offensive game.
- [13:30]
Chris Mannix
He had a hell of a shot for me too.
- [13:33]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Anyway, this is, you know when people talk about stats. Like I'll tell you know, people in the office like Ewing get 30 and 15, they're like, I'm like, Bro, the score was 69 to 68. Like people don't know. It was a different NBA, right? Anyway, Mike and the Mad Dog Mike Francesa went on this three minute rant. I'm recalling it 36 years later and giving him flowers. I hope one of his relatives are watching. He said, listen, New Yorkers love the Yankees. Boy, that man's wearing that hat right now. We love the New York loves the Yankees. He's like, the Giants. This city loves the Giants. He's like, but let there be no fucking. He didn't say fucking. He said, let there be no confusion. New York is a Knicks town. And it just hit me and it made sense. I was like, right. Cause I was a Jets fan. So jets and Giants, Mets and Yankees. I was a Yankees fan. I was a mix of uh. But the Knicks, this before Brooklyn came, which by the way, it's funny when, when the Knicks got to the playoffs in Randall that first year, that's when I knew New York was a Knicks town because Brooklyn had a super team. It was the year they lost by the pinky, the little toe to the Bucks KD and the Knicks fucking won a one gate got into the playoffs and the guard and New York was going crazy and no one gave a. About Brooklyn super team. I'm like, damn. By the way, here's another one. Brooklyn, you need to. They should move. Brooklyn should move. I mean it. The Brooklyn Nets should move because they had Katie, they had. They had Kyrie, they had a super team that was going to win a title or get there and no one gave a. And the Knicks barely making the playoffs. The city was on fire. That's a long. That is a long ass winded story to say you.
- [15:13]
Chris Mannix
If you think about it like that.
- [15:14]
Gary Vaynerchuk
If the Knicks win the NBA championship, the fucking Statue of Liberty is going to be floating in the fucking Hudson River. That City is going to burn itself to the ground out of euphoria, and I can't wait for it.
- [15:27]
Pat McAfee
They lose it.
- [15:28]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Please, God.
- [15:31]
Pat McAfee
As a lifelong Knick, where does Brunson rank in the hierarchy of Knicks? Obviously still a lot to come from him, but up to this point, well,
- [15:39]
Gary Vaynerchuk
he's well on his way. You know, he's well on his way. And, you know, it's all contextual, right? We were starving for so long. Even for me, I'm just young enough. I'm just older, young enough where I already loved Bernard and Bernard was cooking for us. When we got Ewing, we sucked, but Bernard still went off for 50 on the Pistons. And, like, we still have Bernard. It's been so long for Nick fans, right? It's why I will forever love Julius Randall. He was the first domino for us to start the Tide. But what Jalen has come in and done is so incredible. You know, listen, Clyde Frazier, Willis Reed, you know, those guys really deserve where they sit in Nick's Mount Rushmore. I think for anyone that's old enough to have watched him play. Ewing is like, right at the tippy top, people, you know, I love Melo and he, you know, those guys did some work, but Brunson has. Listen, they win a title, it's him. Because we have recency bias. You know this when everyone talks about their Mount Rushmores in the NBA.
- [16:41]
Pat McAfee
What have you done for me lately?
- [16:42]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Guys, with all due respect, like, we had to change the entire sport because of Wilt Chamberlain. We had to change, like, every fucking rule. You know, crazy it is to be an athlete that changes, like, multiple rules. So that's like a level of like. But we. But we didn't watch it like that. So you're.
- [16:57]
Chris Mannix
There's a recency bias big time collector. If you could own any piece of Knicks memorabilia, what would it be?
- [17:03]
Gary Vaynerchuk
That's a great question. I would take the iced out envelope that David Stern was searching for to make sure the Knicks got the number one pick in the NBA lotto. When Patrick Ewing was coming out.
- [17:21]
Pat McAfee
Iced out.
- [17:23]
Gary Vaynerchuk
That was good, right? I went in my bag there. Thank you, friends. Thank you, friends.
- [17:26]
Pat McAfee
That was. That was. That was.
- [17:26]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And if you don't know what I'm referencing, look it up.
- [17:30]
Chris Mannix
Look it up. How crazy are Wendy's prices as a collector?
- [17:33]
Pat McAfee
Wendy's.
- [17:34]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know, it's funny, let me contextualize this because I have the Internet receipts to back it up. When Zion came out, the card hobby was starting to blow up. You guys might know this because of what you do for a living. I was really that guy. I really was like, sports cards are coming in 2017, 18 Giannis, all that and then a couple. You know, that next draft was the big one us for rj. We all wanted Zion, and I did not buy a single Zion. I knew there was a lot of production because I came from the 90s with junk wax and I knew Panini was just printing money and making a lot of Zions. So I knew there was a lot of Zions and I was genuinely concerned about his injury risk. And so I never bought Zion. And Zion's one of the worst plays of the last five to ten years in collecting. You know, he's still. It's crazy how good and young he still is. Like, I desperately wish that he can turn it for himself and all that. And I think he'll be like a vet that like, has a run one day. He'll be really fun for all of us because you wish good on everyone. Wemby was different for me. All the people around me, my brother included, and still might be right. We're like, and by the way, I love how 7 foot 6 guys want to be 7 4. You tall guys are funny to me. Like, all of us are, like, adding two inches in real life, Durant doesn't want to be seven foot. Why be seven six, bro? He ain't 74. I don't know why they do it, but it. He can do whatever he wants anyway. This man is 7 6. He's fucking hitting threes like he's Steph. He's so crazy. I'm so glad because you just saw. I've always felt weird about Wilt. Like, I always felt like Wilt will never get his. He just missed the media era. Like, if we could watch the highlights of that hundred point game for real, we'd all be feeling different, right? And I feel like Wemby's almost doing it for that type of person. Anyway, long winded for me to say I went all in on Wemby a couple years ago. I bought the. In fact, I waited to him getting dinged up. I have a kaboom gold which is only 10 of which is, yeah, it's a real card. And I caught the absolute bottom, the blood clots. Everyone was scared. And I'm like, you got a zig when everyone's zagging. If you're trying to invest, you can't be like, when everyone's like, bitcoin's, you're buying bitcoin now. When people are like, eh, I'M not sure when everyone's like, bitcoin, bitcoin, bitcoin. That's not. When you buy, you don't buy. When the area got cleaned up and you buy real estate, you gotta see it. Hey, everybody. Hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast. That's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show, but follow the podcast. They'll make my mom super happy. I. You know, Wemby still can be injury prone and not become who he. You know, I think about Brandon Roy all the time. I think about him all the time. And again, I'm dropping that for y'. All. You guys know, the kids don't know, bro. The kids, you know, we talk about Grant Hill and it's crazy what his career was, but if you really knew what he could have been if he didn't get dinged up. Livingston, another guy who had a real career, man, I wonder what he would have been. You know, Wendy can still go. Derrick Rose, D. Rose, Right. So Wemmy could go through that. God forbid. I wish. No injuries on anyone except Tom Brady, but that's already wrapped up. And I. I just think he has a real chance to be a top five player of all time. He's just so crazy. It's so crazy. And you know what? He has that I really with, because I wasn't very big on that whole era of, like, everyone going on banana boats with each other. That motherfucker is trying to compete.
- [21:03]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [21:03]
Gary Vaynerchuk
He got dog in.
- [21:04]
Unidentified Guest
He.
- [21:04]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know, when he's like, when they're asking, you just won game one. You can be gracious. You got a long series. You're not trying to rile up the other side. Right? You guys know. And they're like, did you try harder tonight because you didn't get the mvp? He's like, yep, I sure did. And like. And like, for fans, that honesty, like, we fuck with that, right? We like authenticity. And if you're a competitive person, like I am, that's the shit that gets you going. And like, when I saw that last night, late last night, because I was. I didn't catch most of the game. I was out working. I was like, yes, motherfucker, yes. Yes.
- [21:38]
Pat McAfee
Yeah. There's no secret he wants. He's put it out there. I'm gonna be.
- [21:40]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah, the All Star Game. That All Star Game was fine. Everyone's like, we gotta fix the All Star Game. Wendy fixed it.
- [21:46]
Pat McAfee
Competition.
- [21:46]
Gary Vaynerchuk
He tried to play, you know, and
- [21:49]
Chris Mannix
so Carmelo just said it on There he understands what it means to be the face of the league on a global scale. I think he understands that.
- [21:58]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah, I have some fun DMs with WEMBY. Cause I really follow shit. So I started talking to him when he was like 14. And I knew that that's one of the biggest reasons I actually bought his card. I'm like, this fucking guy. First of all, anyone who like replies with like, gary, Ve, you're the goat. I'm like, yeah, he's smart. No, but on some real shit. I could even tell in our interactions back then when he was in France, I was like, this guy's got it.
- [22:21]
Chris Mannix
If you was part of his business team, what moves would you make?
- [22:25]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I would reverse engineer him, meaning the best. The reason Vayner Sports has become so big so fast is I am who I am. My brother is who he is. The people around us are who they are. We're good because we reverse engineer the truth. Meaning I can't answer it because I don't know him like that.
- [22:42]
Chris Mannix
Right?
- [22:42]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Right. There is no right way to do anything right. There's no, try to get on the video game cover. Try to get that bag off the field. Don't do anything off the court for three years and get in your basketball. Everything's different. It's what great coaching is. I'm sure you guys feel this, right? Like, coach, I think I'm a good CEO because I look at my talent and I'm trying to reverse engineer them to put them in the best position to succeed, not what I think is the way to do it right? So, you know, I would think a lot about where he's at, what's he trying to do. And. And then a lot for me would be like, the reason the NBA is so awesome, the reason basketball is so great is it's a global sport. You know, for me, it's football. The jets are number one, Knicks are number two. I'm football. Basketball, but football. And to their credit, they're starting to finally get their shit together. Last five years, they're starting to get a little more global. The Germany, Brazil games, all that. But the David Stern man, people do not understand. I'll say it again. I'm just doing this, you know, I'm starting a new podcast called the Flower Shop. I just love giving people flower. You can see I'm doing it all day right now. David Stern is misunderstood of how all time great he is. David Stern did. First of all, David Stern understood the number one rule of being a commissioner. Make your Stars, superheroes. People don't get this. Like, this is why Caitlin Clark is important. It's why Steph is important. Steph's a superhero for all the people under six foot. Oh, wait. If I can get my hand, I can speak from firsthand. Watching my son. My son's minuscule. You see it? But when I was growing up, I tried to be Ewing. Like, you know, they don't know this, y'. All. You don't know about the 80s kids. We were all trying to be under the rim, trying to be centers or do some Jordan shit. I never did it because I hated him so much. But. But, you know. But my kids era. You guys know this. They're my son's handle. He. It's crazy. His range. He's in deep. NBA threes, like, and he's. I don't even know how he has that strength. He's so small. Steph's a superhero to them. Jordan Magic bird. Right. It's superhero stuff.
- [24:51]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [24:52]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And that's what Stern did, and he went global with Wemby. I would try to make him known in places that he's a little less known, whether that's Asia, whether that's Africa, whether that's South America, but all of it, he's known. That's the sports. Global. Now, I'd have him on shit like this to show his competitive side.
- [25:10]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [25:10]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know, but again, only if I knew he was about that life. If he was like, fudge you, Gary. Season ends. I'm next day, I'm in the gym, and I'm just, like, going. You know when Rudy Gobert said that shit about, like, what kind of, like, fucking water filter he had? Or you see that clip? You guys saw that?
- [25:26]
Unidentified Guest
Yeah.
- [25:26]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Where Rudy was making that joke about, like, Wemby hit him up about, like, what water filtration he has in the house. I'm like, all right. I'm getting into, like. I'm understanding. Wendy's thinking about it exactly the right way. So I would want to support that if I was on his team, because you can get to all the shit later.
- [25:41]
Unidentified Guest
Look at y'.
- [25:42]
Gary Vaynerchuk
All.
- [25:43]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [25:44]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Look what you're doing right now. Life is long. He can get to everything. I promise you, if he has seven rings, there'll be way more doors open. And if he wants to work. And if he wants to work on his game, even though I'm Gary Vee, the business marketing guy, I'm like, go. Do you.
- [25:59]
Unidentified Guest
This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini And Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle for from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses setup required compatibility and availability various 18 plus.
- [26:23]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [26:24]
Pat McAfee
Let's talk about a little bit about the business of basketball. Thoughts on Adam Silver. How has he done, in your opinion? He takes a lot of. But you know, you just spoke to David Stern and he took a lot of shit. But he had a vision that to your point, made superheroes and made, you know, superheroes within a team setting. What is your thought on what you've seen from Adam Silver thus far?
- [26:48]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Anybody, anybody who's shitting on or you know, looking down on Adam Silver are in the business of nitpicking, nitpicking. They are just, they're looking to find something. How is there any confusion, you know. And by the way, I'm a fan. I'm very empathetic that the games are on 97 different channel, you know, all the stuff. But like, I mean, he's navigating. When you're a commissioner, you know, like things we already forgot about. Gambling scandal five minutes ago, that's already passed us, right. Players not wanting to play. He's innovating. Whether you like the NBA cup or not, whether it ultimately works or not, it's completely irrelevant from my standpoint as someone who builds real things. He's trying to do shit, right? He's trying to do shit. The new owners that are coming in, do you know how good of like net new owners Matt Ishbia and Ryan Smith are Utah and Phoenix. These are real people. They're young, they have ideas like, like he, I think he's doing a lot. Right. The G League is like a good thing. Like we have a real minor league. Like you guys, you guys are second. Both of you are second round picks.
- [28:06]
Pat McAfee
I was in the D league.
- [28:08]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah.
- [28:08]
Pat McAfee
Yeah.
- [28:08]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You guys really know what I'm talking about.
- [28:11]
Chris Mannix
Like it was the cba. I'm a little old. It was a cba.
- [28:13]
Gary Vaynerchuk
When I say it was running it.
- [28:15]
Chris Mannix
Yeah, yeah.
- [28:16]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Like, you guys know that developmental shit was really secondary. You guys felt it, you guys understood it, you knew it. But now it's good. Like now is like now it's good. Like fringe players, like you can really do things. The game's more international than ever. The stuff they did in the Middle East, I like A lot NBA Africa now, which is a real thing. I'm really excited about that. You guys think Wemby's crazy? Wait till we see these nine foot three African dudes come in ten years.
- [28:45]
Chris Mannix
Nah, they got a couple of mop that I seen too, bro.
- [28:48]
Pat McAfee
I see them in South Africa seventh and eighth grade, right?
- [28:50]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah.
- [28:50]
Pat McAfee
And they say they're 12 or 13,
- [28:52]
Chris Mannix
but they're really 26. Yeah.
- [28:55]
Gary Vaynerchuk
This ain't baseball, yo.
- [28:58]
Chris Mannix
But.
- [28:59]
Gary Vaynerchuk
But me personally, he's also a good human being. Like again, you guys know this. I have the luxury of. I don't know Adam like that. But I have so many friends that are very around and like I just have enough context. He's a good dude. Like that's always a plus.
- [29:14]
Pat McAfee
Always.
- [29:14]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Like, you know, like people don't know. The world's better now at exposing people. But like a lot of times people aren't. And he is. And he's thoughtful. I think he gives a fuck about the fans. Look, him maximizing the. The TV deal. That's what he's supposed to do.
- [29:28]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [29:29]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And honestly, like we all have all these streaming services anyway. Like, you know what I mean? So like I don't know. I think he's done an extremely good job and I'm excited about this draft thing they're talking about. That looks like it's going to pass where like the bottom four teams are actually negatively impacted by being in the bottom four. Like that lottery.
- [29:50]
Pat McAfee
I didn't see that.
- [29:51]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah. So I think I could be wrong. I just crossed my radar the other day because of the. They were saying was the last year of that.
- [29:57]
Pat McAfee
Right.
- [29:57]
Gary Vaynerchuk
This is bottom four teams with the worst records. They dropped down in the odds for the number one pick. Right. So now all of a sudden tanking is a whole different thing.
- [30:07]
Chris Mannix
If you're in the bottom four, you guaranteed to get a top three pick. That's how I normally be expans. See that was. That's. That's what tanking coming in. People tank now. You can't do neither one of them. If you have a suck season, your
- [30:21]
Gary Vaynerchuk
ass are being the fifth worst team. You can't. You can't control it the same way. I think they're doing a lot of stuff. Listen, my. My number one thing that I would love to see the NBA do number one if I had Adam's job tomorrow and I could. There's so much that goes into this
- [30:36]
Pat McAfee
was actually the next question.
- [30:37]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Really?
- [30:37]
Pat McAfee
Yeah, I swear.
- [30:38]
Gary Vaynerchuk
So literally. Literally the number one thing I think the NBA should do is start the season on Christmas day. Let me tell you why. If they start on Christmas day, then we're all hyped. You know, they own it. That's opening day. But then it goes into August and they would fucking own it. They wouldn't have. They would be. They'd be away from the NFL. You think we're locked into the NBA playoffs now. Could you imagine if all of August when everyone's chilling.
- [31:07]
Pat McAfee
Yeah. Ain't nothing to watch.
- [31:08]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Are those ratings insane, man. I would just move it a little bit. That shit would fucking cook, right? Could you imagine August?
- [31:17]
Pat McAfee
We would be.
- [31:18]
Gary Vaynerchuk
It would fucking crush. So just, just that extra 12 weeks or whatever, eight weeks, it would be from mid October. I think that shit would cook.
- [31:28]
Pat McAfee
That would be the 82. Yeah.
- [31:30]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I mean, listen, you know, this is when you love it so much. As a fan, you want it. You want to watch those games, like the load balancing all that stuff. I'm empathetic to like why people do it, how they think about it. I'm okay if they went to. I don't want to see them go below 65. And this is just completely. No rationale, just gut answer to you. I'm thrilled with 82. Like when you love something. Like I love when Hawk Purdy is in there as much as like, like I love it. I love watching my team. I love watching Mo and the rest of the guys develop and think about who they might be in three years. So when you're a nerd and you fuck with it that heavy, you like every part of it, right? It's like beauty, right? Like when you, when you think something's beautiful, you love the blemishes as much as you love the things everyone else likes. As a die hard, I want, I want 100, you know, like, I just want to watch it. But I, but I also don't get all bent out of shape when somebody's trying to strategize to. I'm all about win a ring over everything. Of course I'm upset.
- [32:36]
Chris Mannix
That's the goal.
- [32:37]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Listen, I'm a very empathetic human being. It breaks my heart with the thought of family saved up for fucking four months because they don't have financial status like that just to let their little son or daughter go see Steph Curry and Curry sitting that night. That hurts. I understand the emotion of that. But as a Knicks fan, I want Brunson and Cat and everyone to sit as much as possible, if that's what they think is appropriate. Because I want a fucking ring period, end of Story
- [33:09]
Pat McAfee
the future of linear television. Where are we at with that?
- [33:13]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I mean, I mean, I know I've been on. I've got plenty of receipts on this for the last 20 years. We're on the Last fucking breath where linear television is on some fucking. I fuck with the retirement home because I think wisdom is underrated. But like linear tv, it barely exists, right? And by the way, though, I don't, I don't get romantic about the distribution channel like YouTube and social and streaming, like Netflix does not feel different to me than ABC. Like, it's not like we're still in the 80s where you gotta go up to the TV and move the dial, turn it on, like, you know, like it's all the same shit. I mean, linear TV is, you know, I own a. For people that don't know. The reason I talk so much about linear TV is I've owned a very large advertising agency for the last 15 years and all of my clients waste all of their money when they run television commercials outside of the super bowl, which is underpriced at 8 to 10 million a pop because we all. Yes, underpriced because. I'll tell you why, Jack. Because I can't spend $8 million. And I know how to spend marketing money on Facebook or TikTok or podcasts. I can't spend $8 million to get 180 million Americans to watch a 30 second video, no matter when I'm at my AAA game. And so that means the Super Bowl's the best buy because you can get 180 million Americans. And we lock in. We watch it on YouTube the week before, we watch it on the morning shows, the day after we watch it.
- [34:49]
Pat McAfee
The important right now in this space of content to be winning in the social and the digital space, what are the right moves?
- [34:59]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah, volume and this fucks with people, Matty. People get so mad at me when I talk about quantity because people want this dream of quality. They think that if you make a lot of content, it can't be good. They think there's a conflict between quality and quantity. This podcast that we're doing right now, if I was running shit behind the camera, we would have at least 40 to 80 clips from it. It would be posted on nine to 10 social networks. We would transcribe the audio into written form and we would have a full substack and beehive about it. And it would be posted on 40 other handles that are not your main handle, that are alt handles. Because we now live in interest media, not social. Media. And a clip with us on a net new TikTok account that has no followers, could get 2 million views and could lead to more subscribers, which leads to more ad revenue, which leads to a fucking business.
- [36:01]
Pat McAfee
Thanks for that.
- [36:02]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You're welcome.
- [36:03]
Pat McAfee
Appreciate that.
- [36:03]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I know why I'm here. I know exactly why I'm here.
- [36:07]
Chris Mannix
You've always been ahead of the curve. Let's take a look at this clip from 2008.
- [36:11]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Oh, man, this is crazy. Something cool. Let's zoom in over here. We have 125 people watching me on New Street. How many of you read the newspaper every day? Go. No, no, no, no, no, no.
- [36:21]
Chris Mannix
Hell no. No, no, no.
- [36:22]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes, yes. No, no. Gucci would be far better off going to every watch blog and buying ads there because not only are the prices and the ROI, CPM, CMOs, CTCC, whatever, the value they get on the back end is so much higher. And here's a better one, they can track it. You don't have to guess what this meant. I don't see companies going away from online marketing and when they start embracing social media media marketing, it's really gonna explode. And then listen, that's a decade from now.
- [36:50]
Pat McAfee
But in your bag.
- [36:52]
Chris Mannix
In my bag, man, that edge up.
- [36:56]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I just knew, you know when you know, man, back back to when I talk about athletes. Do you know when you like knew you're like, I'm good at this. Whether it was 8 or 11 or you bloomed late. Like, I don't know how your guys journey, but at that point, that kid right there, I was like, I just know business and marketing better than people.
- [37:16]
Chris Mannix
You had like a serious energy about yourself right there.
- [37:19]
Pat McAfee
Like the confidence. Yeah.
- [37:21]
Chris Mannix
Like, yeah.
- [37:22]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Because what's crazy about that? And it's what I'm gonna do now, I stay in my fucking lane. Yeah, when I talked about that, I wasn't talking about it in theory. I was doing online and social marketing to help build my daddy's business. I only speak. I'm not trying to guess out here. I ain't trying to let you fuckers clip something where I'm crazy wrong.
- [37:43]
Chris Mannix
Right.
- [37:44]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know? You know, this is why I'm so grateful that I'm not a talk in an alternate life. If I didn't have entrepreneurial DNA, I would have been a very substantially popular sportscaster. But my timing would have been fucked because when I was growing up, you weren't pontificating your random opinions. Trying to fucking pontificating.
- [38:03]
Chris Mannix
Write that down.
- [38:04]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know what I mean?
- [38:05]
Chris Mannix
Let me get that.
- [38:05]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Definitely Right. You were facts oriented. You might bleed a little bit into something, but it was grounded in knowledge. Which is why I always listen to, like, you, because you played it, but now, like, you're forced to, like, just say random, dumb. You think, like, how do you think people feel when their clip is showing that they said that Iguodad should be taking the last shot, not Steph?
- [38:29]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [38:29]
Gary Vaynerchuk
How do you think people feel when they're saying, you know, all the crazy clips we see of, like, worst takes ever? Like, you know what I mean? Like, and. And. And I'm empathetic to everyone on ESPN and other places. The culture's forcing you to do it.
- [38:42]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [38:42]
Gary Vaynerchuk
What's your options? You either say some random shit that you probably kind of believe, or you're guessing or you're not on. This is why this medium is the best. You don't have to worry about that dumb shit. And all of a sudden, for me, I'm not trying to talk about live. I've been watching Live Shopping. There's another clip. I thought that's where you guys might go. Where I was talking about live shopping 15 years ago. I've been waiting every day. I've been watching China for a decade. I'm like, this shit's coming to the U.S. this shit's coming to the U.S. and then finally, two years ago, whatnot. TikTok Shop. And then I got loud. I'm not trying to guess even Wemby. Did you notice how much I hedged about injury? Like, it's hard and so. But I'd rather speak from a place of knowledge. The reason you saw that confidence is. I wasn't guessing. I was living the benefits of it. And I could see it was growing.
- [39:37]
Chris Mannix
You knew your shit. Say no more. No more pontificating today. Okay.
- [39:43]
Pat McAfee
You know what that means?
- [39:44]
Chris Mannix
No, but I'm assuming you sound good, though. Yeah, I know he doing it. Whatever it is. I know he doing it. Whatever it means, you guilty of it.
- [39:52]
Gary Vaynerchuk
It's just shooting from your ass for no reason.
- [39:55]
Chris Mannix
Oh, that's definitely him. Get to the Big Three. I'm happy you're involved in the league. You invested in the big three. Tell me how that happened.
- [40:08]
Gary Vaynerchuk
When you're 50.
- [40:09]
Chris Mannix
Triplets.
- [40:10]
Gary Vaynerchuk
When you're 50, Joe Johnson. Yes, sir. When you're 50 years old and you grew up in Edison, New Jersey, and you went to Martin Luther King elementary School and Ice Cube calls, you say, yes, that's actually how that happened. You know, it was a good time in my life. You know, Cube had good People around him as well that had a vision. I'm very bullish on alternative sports. I made a real bag in pickleball. I was really right about that. I wrote my brother and I wrote one of the first checks into unrivaled. The female version, which is different because, you know, it's real players like that, but, you know, Cuban them had, you know, had a CBS deal. So, you know, people see it. I knew at that point social media clipping was about to explode. So I'm like, okay, this could get more exposure. I'm actually very. There's actually. I get to talk on this.
- [41:04]
Chris Mannix
I'm your championship too.
- [41:05]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes, sir. Thank you. But here's a fun one. I'm going to pitch you guys something right now. This is really fun for me. One of the other reasons I invested in Big three was because for years, still as I sit here, I'm about to pitch it to the world. I have this thesis that if Magic Johnson and Larry Bird played one on one on pay per view and there was a gambling overlay like there is now on everything. And they did a 24. 7 like they did with boxing back in the day, where we watched Bird and Magic for eight weeks, get into the best shape they can, that the ratings on that game would blow you away. Because I do not believe the world understands the value of nostalgia. I know everyone in this room would be popcorned up and watch the fuck out of that one on one. And so I, you know, Joe and you know, and many others, like nostalgia still matters. And good ball comes in different shapes and sizes. You know, back to me just being in Springfield. We toured the hall of Fame before his game. There was a five. There was a girls game. They were probably 13. We got captivated in that game. Me and him watched the full end. Cause it was a tight game. And it was just like. That's what's beautiful about it, right? It's like fighting. We all love the best UFC and the best boxing match, but we loved watching Kimbo slice fuck people up in backyard fighting too. So, you know, I think that there's a lot of room for not the best in the world at that moment. There's a little more room. Back to television. There wasn't enough channels back in the day. If you weren't on tv, you weren't known. But now. And so esports, pickleball, slam ball. I'm involved in Big three.
- [42:56]
Pat McAfee
Hold on. What about Wiffle Ball?
- [42:58]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I invested in that as well.
- [42:59]
Pat McAfee
I found those pays up. Those are so dope. That takes me back to my childhood. But they got the field and they're
- [43:04]
Gary Vaynerchuk
throwing that crazy ass shit.
- [43:09]
Chris Mannix
No way.
- [43:10]
Gary Vaynerchuk
So let me go to Pickleball Gene podcast and then I'll explain. And Ray, it's the same answer for Wiffle Ball and I'm glad I said it earlier. Do you know why? I think pickleball is working a little bit and it's got a long way to go, but it's because of Annalee Waters. We rep at vaynersports and she plays for my team, the Fives, the New Jersey fives. A 19 year old girl who is, who is the best player in the world. And she has the potential because of her personality and she's the best. And unlike other sports, basketball and tennis, the best girls player in the world is the best player in the world. She's the best player in the world. Like when they go one on one with males, because pickleball is crazy. That's why your grandma can beat you. It's like a sport that's designed to like level the athleticism, playing field. I felt like I could make her famous. Now she's on Fallon, now she's on McAfee. Like Maha. Like we're all working together to build her up. Ryan Harwood deserves the most flowers. Wiffle Ball is gonna work if we can find our Wilt, our Muhammad Ali, our Joe Namath. Let me just be a Jets fan for a minute. Joe Namath becoming actually famous, as famous as the Beatles, is one of the most impactful things that happened to the NFL boys. Ladies, Super Bowl I, 30,000 empty seats in the Orange Bowl. Back to David Stern. NBA Finals 1982 tape delay. 1982 NBA Finals on tape delay. They played golf on CBS when the Sixers and Lakers played and aired it at night. You've got to create heroes, you've got to create stories in Wiffle Ball. All I gotta do is find one person that feels like Babe Ruth, that feels like sandlot, that feels like a celebrity. And I changed Andre Agassi for tennis. You guys know when I say it like this, it makes sense. You're like, damn, Ronda Rousey and Connor mcgregor. Do you know what they. That's why Dana White, Vince McMahon did it in Make Pretend with Hogan. But Vince McMahon, Dana White and David Stern are all very similar. They created stories around humans that got us fascinated, that made us tune in. Do you know what wrestling was before Vince McMahon? It was a fucking circus on the side that your weird uncle watched. There was no Hulkamania. There's no like the Rock. So same with the NBA, bro. The 70s were rough. Boys were doing that white powder shit was crazy. Like the league was in a tough spot. And then Magic and Bird played that NCAA game and they took that weight. And then Jordan came along and it was over.
- [45:57]
Chris Mannix
What's your role? You have any like a. You have like a. Any role with the team, like on a day to day basis?
- [46:02]
Gary Vaynerchuk
No, the way that deal structured was more. It was more of an. Like every other thing I'm involved in besides big three, I have a much bigger role.
- [46:08]
Chris Mannix
Your coach is Dr. J.
- [46:09]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes.
- [46:09]
Chris Mannix
Yep. Which is like got Joe Johnson on the team and.
- [46:11]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And Lisa Leslie in the past.
- [46:14]
Chris Mannix
Yep. She's the one coaching to the championship. Y' all beat us in the championship here in la. Of everything you invested in, what's your favorite success story?
- [46:23]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Mick Mac Mikmac is a company that just sold Rachel Tippo. Big shout out to her. I invested in company in three minutes only because of her. I didn't even love the idea. I loved it. You'll laugh. It was QVC for social media. So it was live shopping a little bit. But I didn't like the way she had it structured. But it's kind of like being a GM that drafts on talent. Not at that moment. I just saw her and let me tell you the number one thing about having a long career in the NBA and being an entrepreneur. Adaptability, changing along the way. Right? You guys know.
- [46:58]
Chris Mannix
You guys.
- [46:59]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah. Vince Carter being a three point shooter compared to the kid we saw day one. That's crazy. I'm still blown away by that. Like still to this minute, I'm shook. That man was fucking meek. He was Dominique ing it. If you told me 18 years later that was gonna be hitting threes right, I would have laughed out of the room. Wow. What work ethic to be adaptable. Rachel pivoted Mick Mack multiple times on its deathbed. Multiple times. I also wrote a check when I didn't have money like that to keep it alive. So it's personal to see her have such a significant, meaningful eight figure exit, maybe nine figure exit, like a real exit. Feels very fulfilling. Obviously Facebook was crazy. Like just see, like picking that in 2007 was crazy. Twitter, Tumblr, Liquid Death. I wrote the first check into Liquid Death. He was my employee. That one actually is in my petheon because I actually didn't know if he could do it. I wrote that check only because I'm a good person. Straight up. He literally resigned from my company. VaynerMedia and was like, I got this idea, Mike. And he's like, I got this idea. I'm going to start this water brand. He's like, would you like to invest? I'm like, yep. He was a creative director. And I'm kind of like. Like I'm a stereotypical businessman who's like, oh, that's like the creative art person. They can't build a business. They just got ideas. So I didn't know him like that. I wrote that check only. Cause I wanted to be supportive because I didn't want to be a hypocrite. Right. If I believe in the entrepreneurial dream, I can't be holding down my employees. I need to build them up. So I'm going to make real paper out of my biggest thesis, which is nice guys finish first, but the world's got you all twisted thinking they come last.
- [48:44]
Chris Mannix
What's the most important thing a company needs to possess to succeed?
- [48:48]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Resilience.
- [48:49]
Chris Mannix
Resilience.
- [48:50]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah, man.
- [48:50]
Chris Mannix
Because every. There's gonna be ups and downs.
- [48:52]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah, man. Like. Like I. This is where I get mad at people. Weaponizing. Lucky. I'm sure you guys heard this. Like, you know, to become a professional athlete, all the, you know, this. A lot of guys came up with you that were more. That were better than you.
- [49:04]
Pat McAfee
A lot of luck.
- [49:05]
Chris Mannix
A high percentage of them was better than us.
- [49:06]
Gary Vaynerchuk
That's right.
- [49:07]
Pat McAfee
A lot of.
- [49:08]
Gary Vaynerchuk
But what they don't understand is there's multiple other parts. There's this, there's this and then there's work.
- [49:13]
Chris Mannix
Best athletes in jail.
- [49:15]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah.
- [49:16]
Chris Mannix
Right now I'm just keeping it fun.
- [49:17]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah. Yeah.
- [49:19]
Chris Mannix
That's just true.
- [49:20]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And many. And then, you know, we're in a better world now where the kids from the streets are smarter because they got more information. So. But they may not be in jail. They just might be a fucking, you know, agent. They might be. Or good. They're just selling insurance. There needs to be drama like that. But they didn't put in the work like you guys did. They didn't. There's adaptability, there's serendipity. But when people weaponize luck, they're on some loser shit. That's their excuse. And so same with companies, man. None of them. Not Facebook, not fucking Amazon, not Oprah. Like there's nobody who made it without resilience. This thought that someone had it easy even when they. On rich kids. You guys know this. Like, we grew up in a way that's different than the benefits of our children. But like, I don't know how you guys are. But, like, that's not always an advantage.
- [50:16]
Chris Mannix
Right. Starting behind is not advantage.
- [50:20]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know, like. Like, adversity is foundational to success. Like, grit matters. Like, when you're, like, going through all the circuits and, you know, you know you got a personal chef instead of eat at McDonald's White Castle, like you. You know, it's different. It's. Plus those kids have. I mean, that's why, bro, my flowers for Bronnie are off the charts. I couldn't Even imagine being LeBron James's kid.
- [50:47]
Pat McAfee
Right.
- [50:48]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Like, I don't. Like, I know people won't get this, and I might get some for this. I think that's the most adverse. And of course, someone's like in the comments like, yo, fuck you. I'd love to have, you know that house. And, like, I get it. I'm talking just about, like, do you understand the emotional fucking damage you get? Like, you're just dealing with it always in the shoes.
- [51:10]
Chris Mannix
Everywhere you go, you're in your daddy footsteps. Everything everywhere, just everywhere you go.
- [51:14]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I mean, you have to be very emotionally strong. Like, big shout out to the parenting that goes on in that house.
- [51:20]
Pat McAfee
Has to be.
- [51:22]
Chris Mannix
I think one of the biggest things you said, like, something I learned, I think is one of the biggest things I learned in my lifetime. To make love to the good and bad times the same way.
- [51:31]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Well, listen, you had real adversity.
- [51:33]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [51:33]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know, at the time when that all went down in the palace, like, I don't even know what you were young as, man. I can't imagine what the was going through your head. But now these little gray beard.
- [51:43]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [51:43]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You now know that's some of the best that ever happened.
- [51:46]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [51:46]
Gary Vaynerchuk
It's just the truth.
- [51:47]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [51:47]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Like, you don't know it at the time.
- [51:48]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [51:49]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know when you're waking up that morning watching ESPN and like, your boys are going like, this shit is so fucked up. And like, you didn't know what the fuck was going to happen to your life. You're a child when that went down.
- [51:59]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [51:59]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Today. You know, first, you know what the best part of having some real shit happen is? You learn real quick who the fuck your friends are.
- [52:07]
Chris Mannix
Yeah. Yeah.
- [52:08]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Like, one of the great things of going through some real shit is that shit exposes quick everybody.
- [52:14]
Chris Mannix
Right.
- [52:14]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And both of you been through some public shit. You learn real fucking quick. Quick. And two, in hindsight now, when we get to chop it up like this, you're like, that made me stronger. That made me learn how to tune out this. You Go through some real, real shit where people say some things that really hurt you in your soul. Especially when it's someone that you thought was your fucking boy. You start to learn how to calibrate words.
- [52:35]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [52:36]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know what I mean? That's the biggest vulnerability to everybody. Most people don't know how to calibrate words.
- [52:41]
Chris Mannix
Break that down for us. Because I know people like what you mean by calibrate.
- [52:45]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Most people are bitches. Like, most people try to act tough and then somebody says something and they break down and wanna fight.
- [52:52]
Chris Mannix
Yep, yep.
- [52:53]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And that's fine. I like fighting. I grew up in that era. Like, I believe in it a little bit. In fact, actually, I'm a little bit pro. Our kids need to fight a little bit more. I think the reason everyone's such a fuck face is people can say shit without getting punched in the face. Especially on keyboards. So I'm pro fighting on the record.
- [53:08]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [53:08]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Meanwhile, meanwhile, meanwhile, if I call you, if I, you know, like, I think about this for a lot of tough guys I grew up with, I was like, man, this person thinks he's tough. I can say one thing right now and this kid will completely lose his shit over it. Like not having the emotional strength to be able to deal with judgment. Hot takes 2 cents. People trying to tear you down. That's real strength. That's real, man. Fucking hood, you know, And I listen, I do think there's a time to like go there.
- [53:38]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [53:39]
Gary Vaynerchuk
But not on an insult. Like, watch it, bro. Real talk. All these tough guys are on social media right now fighting like 13 year old girls. Like, like, girls like children. Like, I don't know if anybody. I promise you, if we took this way back 40 years ago and people watched how people are fighting. And I'm talking like, I love Stephen A. Because I'm a Knicks fan, Right. Like when Steve A's fighting with whomever or even you guys like, fighting, like on some real girl drama shit.
- [54:08]
Chris Mannix
If it wasn't social media and they wouldn't get. They couldn't get attention from, a lot of people wouldn't be saying this stuff.
- [54:14]
Gary Vaynerchuk
But let me say this. Social media is exposing.
- [54:17]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [54:18]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know, when we grew up, this shit was just happening at dinner tables. People crying about dumb shit. People always crying about dumb shit. We're just now being exposed by it.
- [54:28]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [54:29]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I don't think people are emotionally strong. I don't think people understand that people's words are only a reflection of them. You know why I like giving flowers? Because I'm good and I Want people to. Literally, I'm saying all this shit. I can feel it in my body right now. I'm like, I hope they see it. Feels nice. Feels. I'm sure. I mean, you guys, when you get flowers, you get plenty of flowers. Feels nice. You're like, that was nice, right? I'm glad they like, you know, it feels nice.
- [54:53]
Chris Mannix
Like wallow. Say, you know, I've never heard nobody doing work, doing better than me, talking, talking about me. Never.
- [54:59]
Gary Vaynerchuk
It's so rare. It's so rare. It's just the way it is. And like, listen, I get. Listen. I spend my life thinking about insecurity versus real. Confidence, frameworks, mindset, perspective. Honestly, when people shit on me, I feel bad for them. Like, real talk. I couldn't imagine spending two minutes going around the Internet looking at something and then wasting my time trying to hurt someone. I do not.
- [55:25]
Chris Mannix
That's the craziest way ever done.
- [55:27]
Gary Vaynerchuk
When you break it down like that, right? Like, it's a really sad thing.
- [55:30]
Pat McAfee
Like, it's like wake up thinking about
- [55:31]
Gary Vaynerchuk
it, you know, like really, you, like, took your time instead of building some shit for yourself to go and try to tear someone else down. I. I don't think they're. I don't hate them. I ain't mad at them. I feel bad.
- [55:45]
Chris Mannix
Yeah, because it says life kicking you in the ass right now.
- [55:48]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah, you're miserable.
- [55:50]
Chris Mannix
Exactly.
- [55:50]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You're in a bad spot if you're trying to. To spit poison. You got poison in you. Tough to spit it when it's not in you.
- [55:56]
Chris Mannix
You got to demean somebody to get ahead. You ain't going nowhere.
- [55:59]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Nah, man. One of my favorite sayings, two ways to build the biggest building in town. One, tear down everyone else's building and your little building looks good. Two, just be fucking talented enough to build the biggest building.
- [56:11]
Pat McAfee
Quick hitters. First thing to come to mind, let us know. Five dinner guests. You plus five dead or alive.
- [56:17]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Macho Man, Randy Savage. Oh, yeah.
- [56:21]
Chris Mannix
I snapped to that. Slim Jim and I tell Elizabeth, going to go to the top of the jump rope and I'm going to jump
- [56:26]
Gary Vaynerchuk
down the L. Macho man is going to do it. Yeah. The reason Macho man is who he is is literally everyone's got their version of a macho man.
- [56:36]
Pat McAfee
I love the macho man.
- [56:37]
Gary Vaynerchuk
He was the best. My number one macho man.
- [56:39]
Pat McAfee
They weren't just powder in the 70s, I guess, huh?
- [56:42]
Chris Mannix
No, they were.
- [56:42]
Gary Vaynerchuk
They were both of my grandfathers. I didn't get to know them. I actually met my mom's Dad. I knew him until I immigrated from the Soviet Union to the US When I was three. He died right when he was starting to immigrate over, which was devastating. But I don't remember him, which is crushing because my mom tells me I have a lot of him in me. Jim Henson.
- [57:02]
Chris Mannix
Muppets.
- [57:03]
Gary Vaynerchuk
So check this out. This is. I'm in my Jim Henson era. I have something called V Friends. So I'm building the next Pokemon. I'm putting that on wax. I'm building next Pokemon. It's called Vee friends. 250 characters, tenacious termites, patient panda, right? You know, respectful raccoon, entrepreneur elf, rare robot. Very, very, very, very lucky black cat is the logo. Because I'm trying to change perceptions. Why is a black cat gotta be unlucky? By the way, think about that one for a minute.
- [57:32]
Chris Mannix
Anyway, everything black is bad. That's what we were talking, bro.
- [57:36]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You think? Trust me. I was leading the way.
- [57:38]
Chris Mannix
Everything white was right.
- [57:40]
Gary Vaynerchuk
It really fucks with me that black cats are unlucky. My whole life I felt that way. And so I made the logo. My Pikachu, my Mickey Mouse, my Kermit the Frog is the very, very, very, very lucky black cat. Anyway, I'm building this world. When I started it five years ago, I'm like, oh, I'm Walt Disney, Vince McMahon. Like that kind of stuff. But then when I was going through it, I was like, damn, Jim Hen. Because for Vee Friends, for me is the most selfish and most selfless thing I'm doing. Selfish because I'm gonna build a billion dollar company, sell it and buy the jets, win a Super Bowl. Selfless because I'm writing comics, kids books. Putting out content, teaching resilience, Resilient Red Devil. I'm doing a really big play for girl dads. If you're a girl dad out there, please go check out Veefriends. Two of the 10 biggest characters in my world are fearless fairy and ambitious angel. And she's a nice little brown girl that's gonna build the biggest company in our world. And so I'm doing these stories real self. I'm trying to help parents. I grew up in the 80s. When we watched He Man. Remember this? He man would. Adam Would come on in the end, be like, and remember, guys, be nice to your sister. I'd be like, nice to my like. Now we got all this fucked up content, and parenting's hard as shit. I'm like, I'm gonna build a world. Do the GaryVee thing. Cause listen, I know that A lot of people fuck with me, but I know a lot of people don't fuck with me. They don't like the cursing. They don't like the energy. They don't like that I'm a white dude. I don't know what that I like. I can't be the vessel for all 8 billion people, but these 250 characters can. So Jim Henson would be number four, because I'd love to pick his brain. Do you know what Fraggle Rock. Do you guys remember that? Do you know what Fraggle Rock's brief was when they invented it? They create a framework. It's called a brief. Usually it's very long. You explain. You know what a brief is? Do you know what Fraggle Rock's brief was? End war.
- [59:19]
Pat McAfee
Wow.
- [59:20]
Chris Mannix
I had a homeboy that looked like one of them characters. I used to call him Little Fraggle.
- [59:26]
Gary Vaynerchuk
But real talk, though, first. Second, right? Real talk. Like, end war. So for me, I would say number four is. Is. Is Jim Henson. I'll leave number five to think through. Leave it on the side.
- [59:42]
Chris Mannix
You just said something, but a lot of people like me with you. Because you don't give a. I think that's a lot. That's why a lot of people relate to you, because you don't give a. You gonna keep it raw, real at all times. And that's what the word of the world is scared of.
- [59:54]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know, a lot of people keep it real, but they're real pieces of shit.
- [59:58]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [59:59]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know what I mean? And, like, a small group likes them because what they're doing is they're. They're demonizing another group, and they're like, yeah, I like that guy because he's on that, though. But I think with me, I am not scared. Which is the only way to keep it real.
- [60:13]
Chris Mannix
Right?
- [60:14]
Gary Vaynerchuk
But I'm coming on some real love, bro. Like, I. I can't comprehend why I wouldn't want every person that I'm looking at right now to win and all. Like, why wouldn't I? And if they're better than me, like, listen, fuck it. It's why I fuck with sports. You guys did the greatest thing in the world. You did something that no one could fucking cheat. It was 114, 109. You won or you lost. It's why I love business. It's the second closest thing. Like, either you build a business or you don't. Either this podcast gets ratings or it doesn't. You either get sponsorship or you don't. Like, it's the next closest. You could fuck around a little bit with taxes and all the bullshit. Sports is just. And it's why I really love UFC and boxing. With sports, as you guys know, there's a lot of pieces to what y' all did. Coaching, ownership, hand to hand combat. When you go in the fucking cage and it's you and the other person, that shit is the realest shit of it all.
- [61:08]
Chris Mannix
Ain't no tagging.
- [61:10]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Oded Weinstock. You know who that is? Mm, mm, I do. Cause I beat him in a fight three out of four times. He got one. I'm still bitter about it.
- [61:19]
Chris Mannix
He kept coming back, though. He got hard, bro.
- [61:21]
Gary Vaynerchuk
We had a straight Ali Frazier rivalry from second to seventh grade. And we had the apex. Just like the thrill in Manila, we had the apex. Marcos Hill, outside of John Adams Middle School. The buildup was fucking 25. The buildup was super crazy. Here's why. I was 2 0. I beat him in second and fourth grade, beat his ass. But then he got bigger. Remember I told you I was really good in second, third grade. But then he got bigger.
- [61:43]
Chris Mannix
He went at wakes and had.
- [61:44]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And in sixth grade, I talked some shit. I talked some shit. I turned around, this motherfucker pushed me into the locker. Skinny ass, little fucker. And the fucking, you know, the fucking thank you. That shit caught me in the ribs and feel good. And then he got me in a sleeper. Teacher came in, broke us up. It was before homeroom, so I thought it was minor. By lunch, everybody in sixth grade was like, odette beat up Gary. And I'm telling you, besides, when my sister started swimming three seconds before me because I was scared of that I was gonna die swimming. And I jumped right in. Cause I couldn't have her swim before me. There was no other time that I knew I had to do something more than I had. And I, out of like an 80s movie, got up in fucking lunchroom, walked over to ODED and said, Me and you, Marcos Hill, after school, like 3:30. And you know, there was probably 17 to 29 people there. When I tell the story, there was 40,000 in attendance. And it's crazy. He like a real fucking scrap. Before homeroom was like a scrap. This was a real stand up shit. And he's winning early and he's on top of me, like really on top of me. And I'm like on some straight, like just dodging shit, not catching a real one. To this day, I'm 50 years old. That was like the most apex moment of my life. I knew that if I didn't figure something out quick.
- [63:05]
Chris Mannix
It was about to be over, that
- [63:06]
Gary Vaynerchuk
my whole life was over. So I started doing the. You know, and I finally somehow. Somehow. Because fucking. Fucking God. Thank you. Somehow got him off and I fucking kicked this dude in his face and through. Like, I was like a little like, you know, some people thought I actually hit him. His fucking face exploded, bleeding. And he got up and thank God Oded was a. Then he cried and ran off.
- [63:36]
Chris Mannix
Stop panicking. I saw that blood, man.
- [63:38]
Gary Vaynerchuk
It's the best. I'm so glad I got to tell that story.
- [63:40]
Chris Mannix
They probably picked him up.
- [63:41]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Thank you so much for the platform. But. But. But the reason I tell that is, like, that's just it. Oded can't run around and tell that story. That was it. I know you're trying to get me out here, but this Oded story is my life.
- [63:53]
Unidentified Guest
I don't.
- [63:54]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I don't have. I don't have this. This is it, y'. All. Nothing I will ever come. I'm the jets and win a Super bowl. And it still was better to beat Odette on Marco's Hill in 1986.
- [64:03]
Chris Mannix
3&1.
- [64:04]
Pat McAfee
3&1. 1 guess you want to see on all the smoke.
- [64:07]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Ooh, that's good. Have you haven't had Pat on McAfee?
- [64:11]
Pat McAfee
We have.
- [64:11]
Gary Vaynerchuk
No. No Ewing.
- [64:12]
Pat McAfee
Oh, Ewing.
- [64:14]
Gary Vaynerchuk
That's the only Ewing. I think Pat. With all the Knicks stuff going on right now, I think it's time. And he's a complicated dude. Yeah, he's an. There you go. He's interesting.
- [64:23]
Chris Mannix
It's funny you said that.
- [64:24]
Gary Vaynerchuk
He's interesting.
- [64:24]
Chris Mannix
He came up to him at the Knicks game.
- [64:26]
Pat McAfee
Did he.
- [64:26]
Chris Mannix
Yeah. Say what's up. He looks. Hey. Like we doing.
- [64:29]
Gary Vaynerchuk
So listen to me on Pat. I know. I get it. Don't worry. Respect. But I'm telling you, on the Pat thing, he's interesting.
- [64:35]
Chris Mannix
Yeah.
- [64:36]
Gary Vaynerchuk
He'll give you that Jamaican fucking parents upbringing. Massachusetts, a lot of racism. Pat went through with Georgetown. He went through it a different way. Was really tight against players union guy. The Jordan relationship. Like, Pat's interesting.
- [64:51]
Chris Mannix
Very educated.
- [64:52]
Gary Vaynerchuk
By the way, he might be very hard. The reason I want to see it is I don't know if you can get them to open like that, but
- [64:57]
Chris Mannix
if Pat ever opens, I think we can. I think we can.
- [65:00]
Pat McAfee
Pat G. Appreciate it.
- [65:02]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Thank you.
- [65:02]
Pat McAfee
Thank you.
- [65:02]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Thank you so much, everybody. If you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention, and thanks for being part of this journey. See you later.