Why “And” is the Answer: How to Create Content Outside of Your “Niche”

Summary

The GaryVee Audio Experience

Episode: Why “And” is the Answer: How to Create Content Outside of Your “Niche”
Date: January 20, 2026
Host: Gary Vaynerchuk
Guest: Kayla (owner of Sweat fitness app, major influencer in female fitness)

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Episode Overview

This episode centers around the challenge of evolving as a content creator and public persona—specifically, how to break out of a single “niche” without alienating your audience or diminishing your brand. Gary sits down with Kayla, renowned for her global fitness app and massive personal brand as a trainer, to discuss strategies and share lessons from his own career arc (“Gary the wine guy” to entrepreneur and media mogul). The heart of the conversation is about why the “and” mentality (“you can be both/and, not just either/or”) is essential for sustained relevance, fulfillment, and growth in the digital age.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

From One-Dimensional Brands to Multifaceted Creators

• Getting Boxed In by the Audience:
  Gary and Kayla open the conversation by acknowledging how audiences frequently try to keep public figures in a box, with comments like “stay in your lane.”

  • Notable Quote:
    • “When you have actual self esteem and you're a real person and you know what the fuck you're doing, you can't hear the outside noise... They said that to me too. Shut up and drink wine and spit it. What do you know about business?”
      — Gary (00:00, 03:51)

• The Path from “Wine Guy” to Business Influencer:
  Gary reflects on transitioning away from wine to business content, noting the criticism but emphasizing that truth and authenticity matter more than outside opinions.

The “And” Mentality: Content Expansion

• Embracing New Topics Without Fear:
  Gary prescribes a simple, actionable approach: just begin creating content on new topics. Expect an initial dip in engagement but prioritize long-term authenticity over short-term metrics.

  • Notable Quote:

    • “The game is about ‘and.’ Everybody got taught the wrong thing, which is stay in your lane, niche. Don't confuse the audience. It's all wrong.”
      — Gary (07:10)

  • Advice to Kayla:

    • “The only brave thing you need to do… is you need to start making content that at first will not get as many views.”
      — Gary (02:21)

• Let Go of ‘The Precious Grid’ and Short-Term Data:
  Creators must be willing to release perfectionism (the “precious grid” of a carefully curated feed) and not let view counts dictate direction.

Personal Fulfillment Over External Validation

• Happiness as the Compass:
  Both discuss the necessity of following what feels right to you, not what your audience demands.

  • Notable Quote:
    • “The only thing you should be thinking about is what makes you happy. And when you do those things… it's going to compound.”
      — Gary (11:38–12:04)

• Freedom to Iterate and Change:
  If a new direction doesn’t feel as expected, pivot again. The power lies in experimentation and self-direction.

  • Notable Quote:
    • “You may do it for six months and be like, meh, I don't want to do that. It's not as cool as I had it in my mind. And then you get to do something else.”
      — Gary (14:29)

Overcoming Critics and Internal Obstacles

• Ignoring Anonymous Criticism:
  Gary recommends not internalizing negative feedback from strangers—“It's Sally Pants 49. It's not your mom.” (08:51)
• People-Pleasing and Enablement:
  Both admit to tendencies as people pleasers, but recognize setting personal boundaries is essential for personal and creative growth.

Gender, Human, and Niche Expectations

• Niche Policing Affects Everyone:
  Kayla suggests women face particular pressure, but Gary argues that “niche police” comments are universal to all creators.

  • Notable Quote:
    • “They do it to men in general. It’s a human thing.”
      — Gary (07:16–07:18)

• Rarety and Opportunity for Female Founders:
  Gary notes the unique hunger for female founder stories and diversity at the top, with a nod to his early investment in Canva and a significant recent exit by a female founder he supported (07:28).

Brand-Value and Endorsement Advice

• High Standards Over Mass Deals:
  Gary advises Kayla to approach sponsorships and deals with exclusivity and premium positioning, comparing her brand to luxury goods:
  • Notable Quote:
    • “Treat yourself like a premium brand… You’re not an $8 candy bar. You’re a $4,000 handbag.”
      — Gary (09:57)

Personal Stories and Joy in Multiplicity

• Authentic Passion as a Business Driver:
  Gary shares why he still loves public speaking and content variety, even if it doesn't maximize financial ROI.
  • Notable Quote:
    • “They still do not understand that I'm gonna die one day and I want to be happy... The literal answer is because I like it.”
      — Gary (13:14, 13:35)

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• On Audience Criticism:
  “Shut up and drink wine and spit it. What do you know about business?”
  — Gary (00:00, 03:51)

• On Starting New Content:
  “All you have to do is give up on two things: One, the short term data on views… And two, the precious grid.”
  — Gary (02:21)

• On the 'And' Mindset:
  “What about the concept of ‘and,’ which is, you can do unlimited fitness content and unlimited business content and then pick a third thing.”
  — Gary (06:48)

• On Personal Fulfillment:
  “The only thing you should be thinking about is what makes you happy.”
  — Gary (11:38)

• On Value and Endorsements:
  “You’re not an $8 candy bar. You’re a $4,000 handbag.”
  — Gary (09:57)

• On Criticism from Strangers:
  “It's Sally Pants 49. It's not your mom.”
  — Gary (08:51)

• On Experimenting and Pivoting:
  “You may do it for six months and be like, meh… And then you get to do something else.”
  — Gary (14:29)

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Important Timestamps

• [00:00] Dealing with critics about leaving your “lane”
• [01:36] Kayla introduces her background and challenge
• [02:11] Advice: Just start creating new content
• [03:51] Gary on not listening to niche critics
• [06:48] Explaining the 'And' philosophy for content creation
• [07:16] “Niche police” affects everyone, regardless of gender
• [09:57] Branding and endorsement standards
• [11:38] Shifting from pleasing audience to pursuing happiness
• [13:14] On finding personal fulfillment in work and life
• [14:29] The ability and permission to pivot creatively

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Conclusion

Gary’s core message: Success and fulfillment require the courage to expand, to experiment, and to ignore “stay in your lane” thinking from both audiences and internal doubts. Real growth is found in the embrace of “and”—in being many things, not just one. Both Gary and Kayla reinforce that happiness, truth, and value creation come from being authentic, not conforming to singular roles or external expectations.

Transcript

[A]

When you have actual self esteem and you're a real person and you know what the fuck you're doing that you can't hear the outside noise. So when everybody left a comment every time saying stay in your lane, wine boy. We don't want to hear your business stuff, it's like, you know, when people do politics, they're like, shut up and just be pretty or shut up and just play basketball. As the old saying goes. They said that to me too. Shut up and drink wine and spit it. What do you know about business? This is the GaryVee audio experience.

[B]

Nice to meet you.

[A]

Nice to meet you. How are you?

[B]

I'm really good.

[A]

Good to see you, my friend. Hi, such a pleasure.

[B]

Nice to meet you.

[A]

What's going on?

[B]

Russian mob boss Medved.

[A]

I love it. That's the world. I come, I come from that land. I was born in the Soviet Union.

[B]

Dead serious.

[A]

I hear it, I hear it. I, I, I was born. Hey man, how are you? So sorry, George. Pleasure. I was born in the Soviet Union, which is now, the part I was born in is now Belarus, but that's where I'm from.

[B]

Dude, that's so cool.

[A]

Yeah. How are things?

[B]

Where's your family? Like are they here?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, all my family, we all left.

[B]

You all went to New York?

[A]

Yeah, we all went to Queens when we first came to America, a lot of our friends went to Australia, but everybody tried to get out of Russia if they could back then and. But I grew up in Jersey, but I've lived in Manhattan for 25 years.

[B]

Oh, that's nice. Yeah, you got a sick office with a cool view.

[A]

Yeah, I'm a huge basketball fan. So that's Madison Square Garden. So I always love looking at it. Yeah. What can I help with? Anything, Anything. Anything on your guys mind?

[B]

Well, like knowing that I was coming in here today to talk to you, I thought it'd be a good opportunity because I feel like you know so much about this. So I don't know how much you know about me, but I own a fitness app called Sweat Female only. Biggest in the world, traveled the world, done boot camps with thousands, thousands of women. And everyone knows me as Kayla the personal trainer. And obviously I've evolved as a human. I've had two kids, married, and I'm wondering how do you go from the narrative of being a personal trainer to being.

[A]

And you're aware that I was Gary the wine guy forever? Yeah. You'll love this as a personal trainer by doing it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Right. How do you go? You Know those ridiculous dudes that are so buff up top and have like stick legs, if they're like, fuck, I've been making the wrong move, how do they go and become and fix it? They literally go in the gym the next day. That's right, your content. The only brave thing you need to do that I don't think is brave, but the world thinks is brave, is is you need to start making content that at first will not get as many views right. Literally, people, you'll love this. You're going to love this because you built such a real thing, which is amazing. Congratulations. All you have to do is give up on two things. One, the short term data on views and how well the content's doing. Right. And two, the precious grid. And that's it. If you do that and you start talking about handbags, if you start talking about soda, if you start talking about collectibles or travel or cool hats, whatever the fuck you talk about is what you become. If it's good, if it's right. There's a billion personal trainers. Not everybody breaks out. They're either. They don't have the right personality, they don't have the right charisma, and oftentimes, you know this, they don't have the right actual information. And so they just look good, but their information isn't real. There's a million Gary Vees, but they're not real. Yeah, they literally watch my videos and regurgitate it.

[B]

So what was the findings that you had from going from Gary the wine guy to who you are today, that.

[A]

I knew that my mother did a good job, but it was another moment that it reinforced that when you have actual self esteem and you're a real person and you know what the fuck you're doing, that you can't hear the outside noise. So when everybody left a comment and every time saying, stay in your lane, wine boy, we don't wanna hear your business stuff, it's like, you know, when people do politics, they're like, shut up and just be pretty or shut up and just play basketball, as the old saying goes. They said that to me too. Shut up and drink wine and spit it. What do you know about business? Meanwhile, I'd already built a huge business for my dad. It was who I was. And so whether you're gonna talk about something, you know, or whether you're gonna talk about something that you're interested and passionate about and you're gonna take them along on the journey, that the biggest mistake people make is they claim to be an Expert. When they're a novice on their way to being an expert, people just want the truth.

[B]

I don't think I'm trying to grudge out, do anything different. Obviously I'm not talking about handbags or soda, but I am talking about being a founder and being a leader still in my industry. You should, but trying to.

[A]

You should. By the way, it's one of the more important things you could talk about, especially Australia should be proud. I was an early investor in Canva. They got Canva. They got you. There's like a real. That's epic. And you know this. Listen, I have an incredible female entrepreneur base, but I'm still a dude. And like, you know, we all connect. We connect because we're from the same place. You know, like people connect on different things and obviously gender, race, religion, interests are all going to be connection points. You're the person that's going to be interesting to a lot of people.

[B]

So you would say that, like, you know, what do you say to people who would comment something like, let's bring back fitness content. Like, you know, you would say that.

[A]

You're so humble. What I say, I'm so humbled that you guys want that for me and maybe one day I'll miss. In fact, I'm actually thinking about starting a new podcast called no Whining with Gary Vee where I just destroy complaining, which is something I love doing while I review wine. No whining. Oh yeah, I love that, you know, so like. But I stopped doing day to day content for wine in 2011. Did that help your wine business, the content back then? No. You branching out of wine? The real answer is no, because the wine business is successful and it ebbs and flows. It's successful when I'm leading the charge and it's less successful when my dad's leading the charge.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

Sorry, dad. You know, like the wine. You know, the funniest thing is when people come to see me here, they're like, what the fuck is this? I'm like, you know, VaynerMedia's $450 million in revenue. I run the largest independent advertising agency in the world. I have 100 employees in Sydney. I love that with this company. So, like, you know, I'm an opera. I'm an actual businessman who actually then went to content. Right. So the answer is no. From a content standpoint, it declined. If you're asking. Well, the fitness, you know, I don't know the context. I thought you sold it.

[B]

Sold and bought it back.

[A]

Oh, that. Now Now I understand. So. But by the way, what about and. What about the concept of and which is. Which is you can do unlimited fitness content and unlimited business content and then pick a third thing. Parenting. And then the fourth thing, a new hobby that you've picked up. Crochet. But you understand.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

The game is about. And everybody got taught the wrong thing, which is stay in your lane niche. Don't confuse the audience. It's all wrong.

[B]

I think they do it to women in general.

[A]

They do it to men in general. The unlimited men 5,000 times a day on my live stream. Like. But what about my niche? It's a human thing.

[B]

Right. Okay.

[A]

I promise. So your advice, there's massive. I'm sorry to interrupt. There's massive appetite for more female founders. I just was an early. I have a big announcement today. Today. A female founder that I invested in nine years ago just had a massive nine figure exit. She's announcing it today. And I've helped her along the way very aggressively. And she's not. She's great. But everything she does over indexes. Cause there's so much hunger for it. There's plenty of dudes talking about what they did. Like there's unlimited. And they, they is for everyone. You know, like, don't get caught up in that matrix. They did that to me. Cause I was a bad student. They did that to like, you know.

[B]

Yeah. No complaining.

[A]

Everybody's getting shit on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

White men are getting shit on. Promise.

[B]

Yeah. So just do it.

[A]

Just correct.

[B]

Lean in. Just do it.

[A]

It's how you built your thing in the first place.

[B]

Yeah. And people who struggle with like, I'm a person. I'm a people pleaser. Obviously. Like growing up in a great family, like very like acts of service, love, like feeding and making sure everyone's.

[A]

Me too, me too. I struggle with it heavily. I'm an enabler. Like I lack candor when I build resentment. Cause of that. I have that flaw too. That has nothing to do with this conversation.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You don't know those people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's Sally Pants 49. It's not your mom. You know what I mean? You know what I mean?

[B]

I mean, that's right.

[A]

That's a good way to put it. You never know them. You don't know them. And of course, I mean, I'm hoping one little thing we say here, help someone. That's right, of course. But you're not in control of other people. And if you're not happy, if you're not doing what you want to do. And scratching your itch, the whole thing will break. Anyway, you.

[B]

Sarah.

[A]

Hey, everybody. Hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast. That's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show, but follow the podcast. It'll make my mom super happy. Yes, sir. You're welcome. I was just like, kayla's really almost been taking a brain deal her entire career. I know the feeling. I haven't either, though. I am starting to debate it this year. First time. Any advice on that? Go high. I'm debating, like, national TV commercials. Not, like, hey, here with Kayla, get these protein bars. You know, like, you know, so, like, just go high because you can afford to. Got it.

[B]

Yeah. Just only the best.

[A]

That's right. Treat yourself like a premium brand. Right. You're not an $8 candy bar. You're a $4,000 handbag treated like BLVMH. Don't be LA. Boo boo. You know what I mean? You like that one? Makes sense, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what that means? It means you guys are gonna say no to a lot of stuff. Of course. What are you doing in New York?

[B]

Nrf.

[A]

Yeah, I spoke there yesterday.

[B]

Yeah. So interesting. But, yeah, that was just getting out of my comfort zone, speaking to a bunch of data analytics people. Community, actually, and how to build that because we've lost human touch with the AI and all that stuff. So it worked.

[A]

It was good.

[B]

I liked it. But, yeah, I was interested in your take on branching out, doing something different.

[A]

Yeah, it's a great skill of mine at the height of my business, like when I was really six, seven years ago, ascending, and everyone's like, this is like the business guy. I started making garage sale videos to help people make 20 bucks. And all my friends are like, you're destroying your brand. People are putting you in the conversation with Elon and Bas. You can get there. What are you doing? And I'm like, I'm helping people. This is what I want to do.

[B]

So the difference between. Not the difference between me and you, but the difference between me and you is when you were the wine guy, right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Let's say you were here. You're here now. So let's say you're here right now. If you go on to ChatGPT or you go on to Google, you say, who is the most famous female personal trainer in the world? My name comes up. Okay, so how do you go from here and shift rather than here to here? So you spoke about here to here. How do you go from here to Here.

[A]

It's what I was just talking about. Like, it's by making choice. It's just. It's. It's by not. You're gonna love this. It's by not giving a fuck about this. The fuck are you giving a fuck about that for? The only thing you should thank God at this point in your life, because of your hard work and your execution, the only thing you should be thinking about is what makes you happy.

[B]

Yeah, true.

[A]

And when you do those things, what you'll learn is it's going to compound. Meaning when you start doing all the business content or whatever you're planning on doing, it's going to help everything because you're in a good place. Right. And then even funnier today because once you do one thing for a long time, like any human, we all burn out. You're gonna wake up one day and be like, I actually do wanna make a piece. You know what I mean? That's what's gonna happen.

[B]

Yeah. So I think what's gonna happen is instead of going from this to this to this, it goes from this to this to this.

[A]

And I think that if you're really hearing me and you watch this back, it's erasing all of that and not even thinking about that.

[B]

Mm, good.

[A]

You understand. Like, I love that thinking because it's why you were successful. But you're here. To your point, what are we talking about? Got it. When you go to that place, like, all the shit I'm doing, everyone around me, the smartest people in the world, are just so confused. They still do not understand that I'm gonna die one day and I want to be happy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if that means I want to try to build the next Pokemon, even though, like, that wasn't the logical thing, then that's what I'm gonna do. I mean, everybody in my inner brilliance circle, external and internal. Like, why are you still speaking? Like, yes, you're wildly compensated. I get paid a lot of money to give a speech. The literal answer is because I like it.

[B]

Yeah. Makes you happy.

[A]

It makes. When I go on stage, it feels good to me. And I'm not calculating. Yesterday I spoke at the Javits center, flew to. Where'd we go? Fort Lauderdale.

[B]

Fort Lauderdale.

[A]

Flew to Fort Lauderdale, gave a speech and flew back and walked into my apartment at 11pm I got plenty of work done on both flights for two and a half hours. I got the joy of those 40 minutes on stage. And it was wildly. Even though it was hefty, six figures for that speech. Wildly ROI negative for me that if I sat here and operated for nine hours, it would have been better business. That is not the way you should be thinking about it right now. Personal opinion. And I think if you look back and as you keep going through your journey, you'll realize how right that is. And once you do that, then you're light. Think about all the energy you're using right now. Thinking it through. Yeah, right. Instead of just doing the thing you know you want to do. And I got a better one for you. Here's the coolest part. You may do it for six months and be like, meh, I don't want to do that. It's not as cool as I had it in my mind. And then you get to do something else.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[A]

You're very welcome, everybody. If you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention and thanks for being part of this journey. See you later.