Why Brand is the Single Most Important Thing

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The GaryVee Audio Experience

Episode: "Why Brand is the Single Most Important Thing"

Host: Gary Vaynerchuk

Date: June 25, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this high-energy episode, Gary Vaynerchuk hosts an interactive Q&A session centered around why brand—both personal and business—is the most powerful asset in modern business. Drawing on examples from his own career, his agency VaynerMedia, and discussions with executives and business owners, Gary insists that brand is the ultimate leverage, far outweighing any focus on sales or short-term tactics. The conversation covers everything from the importance of authenticity and self-awareness, hiring strategy and culture, to the execution of content, all while staying true to Gary’s outspoken, practical style.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Ultimate Power of Brand

• Brand vs. Sales:
  • Gary emphasizes that while many over-index on sales tactics, it’s brand that actually wins long-term. Most daily decisions—business and consumer—are made because of brand, not a direct sales pitch.
  • Quote: “At the end of the day, brand is what wins. It always has, it always will. It's how everybody makes a decision... You cannot imagine how many decisions you're making on a daily basis solely on brand.” (00:31)
• Brand as Leverage:
  • Having a brand gives you leverage in the market; Gary claims he could outperform franchise brokers with a simple tweet due to the power of his personal and business brand.
  • Quote: “When you build brand, you build leverage.” (01:07)
• Personal vs. Company Brand:
  • Gary distinguishes between building a personal brand (which can repel some prospects) and a company brand (more universally appealing). He still advocates for authenticity no matter which route you go.

2. Authenticity, Self-Awareness, and Intent

• No Faking Allowed:
  • Gary warns against “faking it till you make it,” stating that being the same online as in real life is key to building a lasting brand.
• Know Your Why:
  • Decisions about content, hiring, or investment should be based on self-awareness—what do you want out of your business? Financial gain, legacy, happiness?
• Intent in Content:
  • The content’s intent should always be to provide value, not just to sell. Audiences are savvy and can sense when they’re being manipulated.
  • Quote: “The singular reason we win and I win is cause not a single piece of content I ever put out has any intent to sell sneakers, wine, 4Ds or VaynerMedia, not interested. And people feel it.” (08:01)
  • Quote: “People call it bullshit radars, but we're animals…we inherently have been sold to for so long at this point...” (08:44)

3. Execution, Imperfection, and Patience

• Execution Doesn’t Have to Be Perfect:
  • With a strong brand, minor operational mistakes are forgiven by customers; effective branding reduces the pressure on flawless execution.
  • Quote: “The amount of dumb basic shit that we do wrong. It doesn't matter…dumb shit is always trumped. Whereas other people have to have everything perfect because they have no brand.” (05:29)
• Patience in Content:
  • Content, particularly when building a brand, may not deliver immediate results. Gary reflects that it took a year for Wine Library TV to gain traction.
  • Quote: “Because I have no expectations of the market for a long time.” (60:16)
• Play Long-Term, Not Short-Term:
  • Investing profits back into the business and brand is positioned as Gary’s secret to sustained growth rather than quick financial wins.

4. Brand in the Age of Commoditization

• Brand as the Only Moat:
  • With internet-driven commoditization, all products can be copied or sold cheaper. Only brand can’t be commoditized.
  • Quote: “Especially as the Internet continues to commoditize everything, everything will be commoditized…It is your brand that plays in the.” (03:46)

5. Brand Building Tactics & Content Strategies

• Value for the Ecosystem:
  • Gary suggests building a brand by delivering consistent, valuable content to users—be it with humor, insight, or genuine expertise.
• Podcasts and Hosting "The Party":
  • Starting a niche business podcast or show can make your company a hub in the industry, an unbeatable strategy for B2B marketing.
  • Quote: “Once you host a party, you win. I call this the high school party rule.” (42:17)
• Paid vs. Organic:
  • As organic reach falls, targeted paid content (LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram) is now underpriced and extremely effective, especially for recruiting and reaching defined audiences.
  • Quote: “You have to do a lot more paid when organic...goes down, you have to pay for it. You can target who you want.” (57:41)

6. Managing Hiring, Firing, and Company Culture

• Hiring Around Weaknesses:
  • Delegate or hire for roles you don’t want to do, allowing you to focus on your operational strengths.
  • Quote: “Hiring around you on the things that you don't want to be doing is unbelievably powerful.” (15:08)
• Don’t Fear Firing:
  • Letting go, even of high-producing team members who detract from culture, is essential for maintaining long-term business values.
  • Quote: “Do you have the stomach for short term financial pain by firing the most productive, but people that don't actually bring value to the culture?” (34:43)
• Culture = Legacy:
  • Legacy is directly tied to how well you stick to your values and culture, even if it costs in the short-term.
• Over-Hiring for Growth:
  • Hire ahead of anticipated growth, not in response to immediate needs.

7. Practical Examples & Memorable Moments

• Testing Before Opening a Location:
  • For franchises or brick-and-mortar, Gary suggests running Facebook/Instagram ads for fake gyms to test demand before signing leases. (13:21)
• Social Accountability and Self-Talk:
  • Gary demonstrates self-confidence rooted not in delusion but in a supportive, accountable upbringing—balancing hype with truth.
  • Quote: “All that happened in my life was everybody said I was losing except my mom. So think about that. You've won.” (50:38)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Building personal or brand for your business is the single most important thing in business. It's number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6.” (03:21)
• “What's amazing about the way we can build brand now is everybody here can do that by providing value for the ecosystem that they're trying to reach versus making a clever commercial.” (03:56)
• “If all of you right now just truly take a step back and say, what do I do every day that I don't want to be doing? And hire for that. I couldn't be more. The reason a COO has never worked for me…is cause I'm an operator and I love it.” (15:11)
• “I put out so much content with the hope that nobody ever hires us. I'm not kidding. Because enough people will. And that's how you build brand and sentiment and karma and a whole lot of other things.” (19:39)
• “If you're fortunate enough to have a founder, if she or he has good characteristics and it's not about ego and insecurity…you ride that personal brand because it converts better. A human face converts better than a logo.” (40:46)
• “People are like, you always go viral. I'm like, I made a video called you're 65 and your life's not over. And I ran ads against people who are 65. It's gonna do well.” (58:53)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:31 – Brand is what wins; decision-making is all about brand
• 03:21 – “Brand is the single most important thing in business”
• 05:29 – With strong brand, execution can be imperfect
• 08:01 – The importance of intent in content
• 13:21 – Market research with ads before opening new locations
• 15:08 – Hiring around your weaknesses
• 19:39 – Provide value with content, become the industry hub
• 34:43 – Choosing culture over money for long-term legacy
• 40:46 – Personal brand vs. company brand—when to lean in
• 42:17 – Host the “party” with a show or podcast
• 54:36 – “The market speaks”—business results are your feedback
• 57:41 – Shift from organic to paid and why it’s a deal
• 60:16 – Patience with content; low expectations for early traction

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Actionable Takeaways

• Double down on brand (personal and business)—it’s leverage for everything else.
• Be authentic and self-aware—build the real you online and off.
• Focus on valuable, entertaining, or insightful content, not just selling.
• Don’t chase short-term perfection; people forgive mistakes when your brand is strong.
• Test ideas before big investments—digital ads can reveal market demand fast.
• Build culture by firing the wrong people, even if it hurts in the short-term.
• Embrace paid distribution and targeting as organic reach declines.
• Hosting podcasts or shows (even niche/local) can make your business the center of gravity in your space.

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Gary’s core conviction shines through: Brand is the only asset the market can’t take away from you, and everything—from culture and hiring to content and sales—should be built around that north star.

Transcript

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

This is the GaryVee audio experience

[Conference Organizer / Moderator]

thing.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So my question is, how do you work out how much you should spend on the content production side, everything you're doing on your personal brand? I haven't even really touched my personal brand and we're a content business ourselves versus working on product generating more revenue to fuel that beast. My answer to that is as much as possible on the content side financially and time. But not to overjudge yourself, if you're not doing it, that's fine. Like I don't dwell. But just so everybody understands, like at the end of the day, brand is what wins. It always has, it always will. It's how everybody makes a decision. Like literally you cannot imagine how many decisions you're making on a daily basis solely on brand, nothing to do with sales. You yet everybody so over indexes on sales. It's why I've been learning a lot about the franchisee world. Just cause the keynote I gave and just a lot of inbound. And when I started realizing how much a new franchisee pays these brokers to get somebody, it speaks the same thing. Instead of spending those tens of, I mean some of these companies are. When I looked at them like my God, like 40% commission, 80% commission, tens of thousands of dollars. I'm like, I could send a single Tweet and put 80 people into a franchisee right now. When you build brand, you build leverage. You know, Vayner's a $200 million enterprise and we don't do new business well at all. We don't win RFPs. We're bad at it. We're bad at it. And it's not because Andre or me or any. It's not our DNA. Our biggest clients just give us the business because of brand. And by the way, when you do personal brand, you actually lose 20 or 30% of the action because some people don't like you. When you actually just build a brand that's a logo, it really gets going. For me, I want to do personal brand and at some level I'm just not driven by money enough to always make the financial decision over the happiness decision. But there's nothing that is more leverageable for you than the brand of your company or you as individuals. Where people get caught is they fake it until they make it. Where everybody gets caught is they place somebody on the Internet that they're not in real life. That has been the reason I made it. So I would tell you that this is a very simple game of how much profit do you want to take Home at the end of the year. The reason I've always been able to scale and get to everything is because I've always made it at the cost of my own personal financial impact. So you can if you're willing to make less money, you know, or you can if you realize actually I don't like this. Like I'm not into it. I'm more of a product guy. I'm more of a product gal. I'm more into getting like self awareness is imperative. Like you can't imagine how little time I spend on finance or legal. I mean for all I know, Mark Yudkin, our lawyer owns this company. He just puts things in front of me and I just signed, you know. But that's why it's funny to have comms and new business or hr. These are the things I micromanage more, at least have opinions on. I actually don't micromanage, but I have opinions. Or occasionally I'll have a dictatorship decision. But I think you need to first be self aware. Are you not doing it because you don't like it or it doesn't come natural? Or are you doing it because of whatever financial requirements you're looking for? Whether that means you want to take money off the table each year in bonus and do something in your life which is amazing. I don't judge what somebody does. Or is it because you're trying to flip your company and trying to maximize EBITDA for a multiple which is all okay, awesome. I'm building businesses in perpetuity and I'm playing for legacy and I don't wanna buy anything in real life. So think about why. My advice is always pour it back in if you understand. Those are my north stars. But let me say this, building personal or brand for your business is the single most important thing in business. It's the single most important thing. It's number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. Especially as the Internet continues to commoditize everything, everything will be commoditized. Everything you do can be sold cheaper, different, better. It is your brand that plays in the McDonald's sells a lot of french fries every day. They don't make the best french fries every day. It matters. You don't want to be in the sales business and that's where everybody for the most part is. Because then you're just in a hamster wheel of only as good as your last sale. You want people coming to you. The only way you can do that is through brand. What's amazing about the way we can Build brand now is everybody here can do that by providing value for the ecosystem that they're trying to reach versus making a clever commercial. How'd you guys get here? It's a super meta answer. I didn't call you. I didn't cold email you.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

We talked about that. The execution doesn't have to be perfect, right? Because the brand is so strong. You just want to make it the execution of like getting the thing filling out the form. Sometimes it didn't work right. Doesn't matter.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Doesn't matter. Like the amount of dumb basic shit that we do wrong. It doesn't matter. You're gonna want. If you want something, you'll get it. We don't want to do dumb shit. But dumb shit is always trumped. Whereas other people have to have everything perfect because they have no brand. They just have the luxury of the quick moment of a sales pitch and the lack of friction too.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Sometimes it's just personal internal. Right? The f like everything needs to be perfect to get it there.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

When it looks the singular strength. My friend Tom Bellew nailed it for me. I never thought about it. Singular strength I have singular is my inability to judge myself.

[Sponsor Representative (Indeed)]

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[Franchise Marketing Manager]

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[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

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[Gary Vaynerchuk]

This is sick.

[Sponsor Representative (Disney / Avatar)]

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[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I mean Harry, you felt this right away in our first meeting. You literally our first meeting. Harry runs comms now for us. She's like, I'd like to re change the mission statement on our website. This is like what the.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

This is what?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like this is maybe the most important thing that people. It was a 38 second meeting. Like okay. I was dying to think about what was going through her mind. Those are like seven month processes in other companies. You did it and I was just like you said, okay. And I didn't know what to say after that. Because you come from a world which is most of the world where that literally people would have seven hour meetings about one adjective.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

There was one answer.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You were not prepared. You had like you were expecting yourself.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Totally.

[Sponsor Representative (Indeed)]

I know that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And think about it. It's like your first week in a company, you're talking to like the over indexing face and founder of the company. Like it's a complete reversal of what one would think, but it's because most things don't matter. Once you establish a brand, I really think you should lean into it. I think it will help your business, but it takes time. And I think the biggest thing for a lot of you and obviously I'm giving answer that helps a lot of you. As I keep doing this. The intent of the content is imperative. The singular reason we win and I win is cause not a single piece of content I ever put out has any intent to sell. Sneakers, wine, 4Ds or VaynerMedia, not interested. And people feel it. What's that?

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

You can't hide it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I mean, you know, people call it bullshit radars, but we're animals, right? It's like a bat can sense things, a dog can sense things. Like we inherently have been sold to for so long at this point that it's of course you can be tricked for a second because usually you're the kind of person that wants to dream and not put in the work. The reason diet pills and quick rich schemes work is cause people don't want to put in the work. You want to look like Nick Dio, Eat well and work out every day. Take off your shirt, Nick.

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

It's good content. Go ahead.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

He did that last night. It was wild. But you know what I mean, it's crazy. There's a trillion dollar health and fitness industry and the math is as basic as fuck, eat well, work out, sleep. But we don't want that. We want to eat fucking cheeseburgers and fucking potato chips and get the results. And that's how I think about business. This answer is 100% right. We live in a world where there's so much supply of everything we do and it will continue to grow. Because What I understood 15 years ago was the Internet was going to be the middle and everything was going to be commoditized. And the only thing that wasn't going to be commoditized was brand and then the ability to execute a product that was at least within the circumference of the competitive set. But this ideology of like, we have the best product. No, you don't. You think you do. Just like everybody thinks their kids are the cutest. Did America say that you're Miss America? You know, so that's how I think about stuff.

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

How do you look towards growing? You know, because we live off of memberships and those kind of things in a very competitive, tight space. Right. Like they want me to move in into a place where there's six other places around the corner.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. I mean, look, and it's fun to have some franchisors in the building. Like, this has become such an intriguing space for me. First of all, what's really interesting is when you're a franchisee, there's a. I'm trying to calibrate in my mind this half pregnant entrepreneurship DNA. And it's not a negative. You know what? I'm actually never gonna say half pregnant again. I'm not kidding. Cause there's an I use it. Cause I love Entrepreneur. It's a very interesting idea where you're in between employee and entrepreneur. That's why you signed up for it. To me, the thought of being at the mercy of the franchisor is devastating. I don't even have a board. I don't have investors. I don't know what to do. Because if I think this is right, like, this is why I hated school. This is why I hate anything that contains me. Right. Even like comms. I'm like, hey, hope you know what you're signing up for. Like, you'll tell me. But like, I have no idea what's gonna come out of my mouth, you know, Like, I think that's. I think. Look, first of all, anything the franchisor wants, you have to be empathetic. This is not a negative. It's in their best interest. And that's fine. That's amazing. That's business. But you have to a. That'd be the first thing I would calibrate if you were my brother, I'd be like, okay, let's first understand that they want you to do that because they want you to do that. That has nothing to do with you. You're a commodity. Even though it's just the truth, it's okay. I think that's not a negative. That's number one. And number two, what are you able to do that distinguishes yourself that still stays within the lines of the franchisor's rules? I don't know enough about CrossFit's rules. Every franchisor has different rules of how hardcore, how Loosey, goosey. They all run. But I would have

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

people trained with that structure. But I'm also working on rebranding, obviously, so that we have more flexibility and experiences we can create.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And do they allow that?

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

100%?

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Okay, great.

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

Literally the requirement is use the name. This. We agree to use the name and it's a marketing agreement. Yep.

[E-commerce / Brand Manager]

Cross.

[Franchise Marketing Manager]

It's licensed, not franchise.

[Conference Organizer / Moderator]

Right.

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

It's literally use the word process. And you have to get trained by CrossFit.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. I mean, I think that if you're talking about there's two separate conversations here. One is the location. Right. Is just a classic supply and demand conversation. Is the rent worth the natural foot traffic you can. Or the way I now think about it, which is not 1987 anymore, where you just get the traffic because there's a Whole Foods or a mall or what have you. It's how much do I like the 2 mile radius of Facebook and Instagram ads against it. That's how I think about it now.

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

I like that it's a good metric.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think that's a really what I would do. Tim Ferriss did something super smart when he did the four hour work week. I mean, I heard about it like 13 years ago and to this day I still think about it. Cause I didn't do it. And I wish I. At some level it's so smart. And I do it with my content. I'm doing something incredibly interesting lately with my content. We call it the machine. I'm running the same video on Instagram with seven different thumbnails and titles, seeing which one over indexes. And then I'm posting it organically on my page and they've done much better. I think one thing you could do is almost run an ad on Facebook and Instagram on a fake gym that doesn't exist and say coming soon and just seeing what people react to and be like and just getting a sense of like. I would almost run a fake gym with maybe another popular brand, whether it's Equinox or Barry's or you know, whatever, Orange Theory, whatever. And run it on like 15 different mile radiuses or if you have four options of locations and just seeing where there's more demand. I love that. I mean for 1000 bucks you can get a read on if there's more demand than not. Hey everybody. Hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast. That's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show, but follow the podcast. It'll make My mom super happy.

[Conference Organizer / Moderator]

So what worked from operational side of things? Like when did you guess and did you get a chief operating officer? What kind of works, but also what didn't work and kind of the why?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I suppose it's a great question. So I always over hire, always because I'm anticipating growth. And that's how you grow, you know,

[Conference Organizer / Moderator]

over higher, as in more volume as opposed to quality of delay.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, you'd like to think that you're getting the quality, you know, but yes, to your point. Like, I was like, you seem nice. You're hired. Like that was like literally how it went for like the first 300 people. Because I was willing to fire and I don't like to fire. I'm kind of like, I'll turn this bad boy around. Like that kind of DNA. So it was a really interesting, like double play on my side, which is I hired. I talk about hiring fast and firing faster, but I also don't love firing because I was so into being operational and trying to fix in parallel. I think a lot of this comes down to knowing yourself first of all. So I'll give you a very good piece of advice. I genuinely believe this and I've seen this everywhere. Hiring around you on the things that you don't want to be doing is unbelievably powerful. I couldn't be more bullish on it. If all of you right now just truly take a step back and say, what do I do every day that I don't want to be doing? And hire for that. I couldn't be more. The reason a COO has never worked for me, not my dad, not my brother, not James Orsini, is cause I'm an operator and I love it. And I'm willing to leave money on the table. Cause I know if I'm a CEO, I could probably generate more top of the funnel business. But I love the challenge of operating. It's the game. I like it. Oh, Rick should be there or Susan should take that account or we'll create this. I love operating. I'm good at it. That's why we're not vulnerable. When you hunt, you gotta be able to farm it. And when you know how to operate, that's where most entrepreneurs lose. They can get the business, but she or he can't operate it right. So I would highly recommend hiring around you. So if you're thinking about coo, are you just so overwhelmed or are you trying to be more physically out there? But then if you're trying to be physically out there, look, nothing excites me more for B2B businesses today than running content ads on LinkedIn against the employees of the people you know you're trying to reach. Like your business is so, dude, as somebody who's been in B2C and B2B, B2B is easier. Like when you know who you're trying to reach, it's easier. I don't know who the fuck drinks wine or wears sneakers. But when you know that literally the companies you're trying to reach, you can run ads right now against employees of that on LinkedIn. And all you have to do is make content that is valuable to them. Instead of saying sign up now, instead of an infomercial, make a B2B magazine could be not even about your own product.

[Conference Organizer / Moderator]

So the reason I'm here is we've got this big conference coming up. Happy Every Year. American Library association conference.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yep.

[Conference Organizer / Moderator]

It's in D.C. actually in June. But we have a 20x30 booth and we're talking about taking a video team with us. But we're going to interview not just our customers, but like other vendors in the industry and that kind of stuff.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The second, you know, obviously you know enough about me to know this. The second everybody here can be the voice of the industry and bringing value to everybody in the funnel, the quicker they win. It's what I learned with Wine Library tv. I started that to do QVC and within episode one. Within the episode, intuitively I needed to become the Wine Spectator, not qvc. And it changed the course of my life. And I've done it ever since. Guys, there are hundreds of agencies that literally just watch my content and get clients that we're trying to get with the same words. Think about what's going, like, how much I believe in it. It's coming out of my own short term pockets. I'm really giving my best shit. What?

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

Thank you.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, I mean, but think about how interesting that is. Like, right, like it's a really. It's a really, like, it's kind of. Not that I'm knowledgeable enough about the Bible, but like I get it thrown at me. It's like quite biblical. It's like just like, it's truly that. So like you. The greatest thing you could do at this DC conference besides be successful and do your thing is, is to listen to the problems that they're all facing and put out content that addresses it or makes fun of it. You couldn't. The amount of two minute videos made, that is like a skit by comedians that make Fun of library culture is zero. Every single fucking person in the industry would share a video that was funny about the 11 truths in your business. You know what I mean? Like the cliche shit. Like the Dewey Decimal system shit. Yeah, like that. Like you should, like, you know, like

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

there's a character, there's a character show there.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

If you guys did a Dewey thing, if you like dug up Dewey, like the punchline is for everybody here. Content that actually brings value to the end user. Game over. Yeah, if you did it back to CrossFit. I mean, the big cliche thing I hear all the time is like, people get hurt if you just put out a content series. And that might struggle with corporate and I have empathy for that. But if the content series in theory was just like how not to get hurt and just deep knowledge on the cliche. 44 reasons why people do. You get over competitive, you lose your form. I don't know what the fuck. I believe in that shit. I believe that I put out so much content with the hope that nobody ever hires us. I'm not kidding. Because enough people will. And that's how you build brand and sentiment and karma and a whole lot of other things. Plus, there's one thing that I always have, which is I know that I'm always gonna be good at emerging trends. I'm not scared to give away all my social media advice. Cause I know I'm gonna be great at voice and AR and machine learning and blockchain. I'm the same thing. Just. You're welcome.

[Franchise Marketing Manager]

All right, so I have two kind of questions. The first one is where I get mixed up a lot is that we have two audiences, right? So we're selling franchises to a million dollar investor, but then our end user, who's their client, a year, so creating or how to differentiate our company to these different audiences. And then the second piece is, you know, we've been.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think one thing you can do is the logo could focus on the end user addressers and then the humans, whether you or somebody else, could focus on the franchisees. You see where I'm going?

[Franchise Marketing Manager]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

First of all, you or somebody. And the logo of the company should have separate accounts. There's a vaynermedia account, there's Gary Vee, there's wine library. Right. So if you think about the nature of it, the brand can really focus on the end and you can focus on the B2B part with occasional reference

[Franchise Marketing Manager]

to the end having two distinct user accounts or two distinct.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Look, I'll be honest with you. I'M also extremely comfortable with the account doing both. Some people may find it intriguing on the back end. Business stuff, it's not the end of the world. Most of this stuff is not about organic anyway. It's about paid amplification. But I think there's a natural for you guys to have a human face for.

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

To be.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes.

[Franchise Marketing Manager]

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And then the second one is, you know, so we've been creating content and putting it out there with very like little success. I don't think our competitors are doing it great. But like how do you set benchmarks for your team to hold them accountable? How do you know when to fire? Like, you know, if I say hey, our social, our digital stinks now, like I could fire everybody.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Business results, I mean we're doing good,

[Franchise Marketing Manager]

but I don't think we're knocking it out of the park with, with digital by any means.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So. Fire.

[Franchise Marketing Manager]

Fire.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. There's no benchmark. Like that's an owner, that's a she or he decision.

[Franchise Marketing Manager]

Okay.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What you'll learn is, you know, it's like breaking up with a boyfriend and then thinking two boyfriends down the line, like, ugh, was I wrong about Rick? Cause he's been a lot better than Stan and John. Maybe I fucked up. That happens. But that's the true answer, right? To me it's like, are you happy with your business results from the thing? And if you're not business results, not how many likes or shares or followers. Business results. Right. And if you're not, that's attributable to that, you break up with Rick and you just hope that that was right.

[Franchise Marketing Manager]

Yeah, I haven't seen anyone in my space do it really well.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So it's like and as well trying to get the $1 million people into the funnel or as well on the end user.

[Franchise Marketing Manager]

I would say both. Both. I mean we're all in franchising really dependent on brokers, especially at that million dollar investment level versus you know, like a CrossFit or a fitness, you know, the owner operator models of 100, 200,000 to invest are pretty easy organically. But that million dollar investor, it's been a little harder to tap into organically.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It makes sense because I think to get that person you need to be making a show about the whole concept of franchisees, not about your specific content.

[E-commerce / Brand Manager]

Right.

[Franchise Marketing Manager]

Okay.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You see where I'm going? You need to become the back of Inc. Magazine and you know, like, you know what I mean? We're in it, but I mean, but like you need to become Inc. Yeah. Okay, like this is where I keep going into like that. Like you need to interview like 365 days a year, somebody who's successfully run a franchise to inspire the people to listen to that, to then get into the potential funnel of considering you.

[Franchise Marketing Manager]

Yeah. And see, that's where I think those two audiences come back in.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like, that's not relevant to this. It's not. And so you make that and you run that on LinkedIn. Right. And then on Instagram. You see what I mean?

[E-commerce / Brand Manager]

Mine is stay with a brand, move on to kind of a new brand idea. So we have a brand that is called called Cebu. It's our private label hair care. It does have its own website. It has no brand awareness. We have links from that platform onto our other salon site. So we do a little business online and a little bit more now that everybody understands what a CTA is, an email on a team. But the issue is, could we create something bigger and better that actually solves to, to a bigger purpose? Not just selling Cebu, but it allows indie brands to have a bigger site, to be able to launch their brands.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

As long as you understand how big of an ambition the sentence that just came out of your mouth is, what you just said in that sentence is usually a 50 million to $100 million funded startup with deep two way marketplace DNA. The answer is you could. But there's, you know, people sometimes ask me, hey Gary, God, you were so early at all these tech companies this and that. Like, why don't you have an app? Why don't you have a company? I'm like, because I don't want to. Cause I don't think it's my strength. I don't think I'm the founder of Uber or Facebook or Twitter. Like you're also talking about at a time where Shopify and Amazon are gonna grow at scale. So for you to create a third party marketplace, like an infrastructure to be a WordPress, an e commerce, you're going into shark territory which you could win within a small niche. But you have to make sure that you guys have the DNA to actually, as long as you notice, I'm jumping in because I wanna make sure you realize that that's not everything so far has been a pass away. Like that is a huge meaning, not to undermine. It's like, it's doable, yours is doable. But you're gonna build a billion dollar business that's like a real big thing. And I think people throw around this theory very nonchalantly in the business world every Day I get a, oh, we're gonna be a marketplace. I'm like, pfft, there's like six marketplaces. Like, you know, it's like Yahoo lost being a marketplace. Like you know, like. So yes, I just want to make sure that you understand, like I'm giving you a reaction to make sure you understand how grand that is.

[E-commerce / Brand Manager]

Yes, I do, I do.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I've actually started a website, I believe. So good, so good, so good.

[Franchise Marketing Manager]

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[E-commerce / Brand Manager]

I'm sure monstrous in terms of the money and the time and the people

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

at this time when it's never gonna be easier or less friction to do short term sales through the Shopify and Amazon ecosystem. It's not about like, it's not the macro thesis, it's the thesis at this moment in the emergence of those two specific platforms that gives me just pause to like think about it. But go ahead.

[E-commerce / Brand Manager]

Yeah, I mean, my worry is if we stay with what we're doing at some point, I don't know how relevant what we're doing today on E Comm is gonna be.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Speak to me about that. When you say I just wanna make sure I'm following along, you mean how relevant that one brand will be?

[E-commerce / Brand Manager]

Yes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So look, I mean it's not a very complicated thing to your point. You just have to understand if you're looking to become, you know, a platform or a product, are you gonna be smart water? Are you gonna be. It's not Walmart, but it's a qvc. Right. They're just two very different things. I will say this. I believe that we're walking. It's ironic. I'm gonna take a little bit of a different stance. I think we're walking into the golden era of the capability of direct to consumer brands at scale you're gonna be competing, but the opportunity to have the leverage. I mean, think about the nature of being a product. You were always at the mercy of your distribution.

[Conference Organizer / Moderator]

Yes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You're not going to be. And so that's exciting. It's. Now, how good is the product and how good are you at building a brand around a product versus how good are you at building a platform and building a brand about the platform? I think that becomes the debate. But I wouldn't run away from being a brand because a lot more brands are coming. I would try to see. I see the positive in DTC more so than the negative. I really do. Because the ability to compete against everybody else's DTC is, I think, more of a fair fight than competing with the hope that Sephora carries you. There was major toll booths that kept all the margin. The retailers have won the leverage game over the last decade. So I think that's the question. I wouldn't. I'm excited about dtc. I just think you have to be the best olive oil. Let me rephrase it. You have to be a top. I think the long tail of DTC is more fruitful than the long tail of marketplace.

[Franchise Marketing Manager]

Got it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

See where I'm going?

[E-commerce / Brand Manager]

I do.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's my point of view on it. And I'm spending a lot of time in that world. A lot.

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

I think, to piggyback on that for us, we've got 10% of our sales, so up to 500 million in sales. 10% comes from product and then 90% from service. Right. The 10% more profitable, better margin for us. We have a site around haircuttery.com and we trying to. How do we build that name? And the thought was, do you build a different site that allows you to attract more eyeballs to it? To sell our product off of versus haircuttery.com?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

or you could just. What is the brand called? What about building?

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

That's correct. But we sell. Our concern is the 10% we sell right now. You can buy anything on Amazon. You can buy from the website of Paul Mitchell. You can go to Amazon, buy. Our concern is, are we going to lose that 10%? Because we.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You're going to lose it if you're not thoughtful about it. But if your site has an added layer of value, like a club that creates content or access, I think you should immediately start creating a weekly, monthly, yearly, special SKU only available on your world. So, like, if you're formulating new products, you know, one of the things I'm trying to push A lot of my CPG brands is to create a super premium version. So, like, I'm literally trying to sell like $100 ketchup that only comes out during the holidays. You can only buy on their dot com. So I think what's amazing is I think this is fun. My natural DNA is always to look at the offense of a scenario versus the defense. Your defensive point of view is absolutely correct. There's far less friction to buy from Amazon when you're buying your deodorant and your peaches and then throw yours in. But you actually fucking own the product. So your ability to create a club. So if you're buying your stuff, you're in the club. And I have no idea what you want to add on to that because you have one more time and I'm trying to remember. So you got this product, then you have salons, right?

[E-commerce / Brand Manager]

We do. We sell them in salons. And then our products also sell sold on Amazon.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Right? And then you have your own salons,

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

which we sell about 6 million worth of this product.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Of this product. But the salons are yours.

[E-commerce / Brand Manager]

Yes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I mean, look, in theory, you could tell the end consumer that they get a 5% discount on their salon work if they buy the product on your site. You have all the advantages. I'm a big fan of fucking Amazon before it fucks you. That's what I did with Facebook. Facebook didn't fuck me. Everyone's like Facebook. I built myself off of it. You have the leverage. You can use Amazon to get people into your ecosystem and then remarket to them as the brand by printing something on the back of the fucking bottle that says join club. So I think it's a concept of. I don't think it's as black and white as the convenience of the lack of friction of shipping or cost. I think it's, what are you gonna do to the product and what are you gonna layer as bells and whistles? Added value that forces everybody. I actually genuinely believe that the smartest brands are gonna fuck Amazon, not the other way around if they're very thoughtful to some of the stuff I just referred to. When you build added value around buying it from you at the same price, you win. Now you can use Amazon as your gateway drug to acquisition. That's what I would do.

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

Thank you.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Appreciate it.

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

The question I had is we're going to talk later on the agenda about culture. We have a very strong intentional culture founded business by Dennis Ratner and he's really created that culture, which we've got a Lot of tenure in our business, but we're projecting it out over the next 10, 15, 20 years from a legacy perspective, and how do we keep that culture and how do we actually make it stronger? So any recommendations on how you believe culture here, for example, and what you're trying to do to create a legacy and what you'd recommend?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know, you've already kind of won. Even if there's 98%, let alone 100% truth behind your statement, you've already won. The ambition for legacy already changes behavior. I think this is a big game of firing. I think the biggest challenge for people that look like me and sounds like what you guys have is do you have the stomach for short term financial pain by firing the most productive, but people that don't actually bring value to the culture. It's a very simple game of like, do you live your truth? It's really easy to maintain culture. Choose culture over money. I really believe it. I live it, I watch it. I see it in companies that I push it into if they're an investment of mine. I really think it's scary when something like that is so simple. But it's like religion. Do you follow it or don't you? And where you choose to bend becomes the variable of how good the culture is. But culture's made up of the humans that are in it at the time, you know, and like when there's lore like founder Rick Thompson or Susan Magoo, she always, whoever's the executive of running that, you know, whoever runs VaynerMedia. When I go and buy Smart Water and become the CEO, and that's what's gonna happen, the next chapter of this company is I'm gonna buy something when the world melts. And when I go run Mountain Dew or stickers or Puma or whatever the fuck I buy, I'm gonna be at the mercy of her or his capability to uphold what I believed in. And so I think you make it clear. That's why, you know, it's funny to think about America this way, right? Like how we interpret the Bill of Rights or the Constitution becomes obviously very intriguing. That's what becomes our culture. But having it is already the starting point. But I think it's a one. I believe culture is one big game of do you have the ability to fire the most productive, worst person? I really believe in that.

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

And it's not going to be. It's going to be the jets you're going to buy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. But the way I think I get there is by that in between Move. I really do. I really think the reason I built Vayner and the reason it's built this way and unique in its way is I think I've built something that, like, if I truly bought Smart Water tomorrow, like, it would be a much bigger company after four years based on all the things we've done. So I'd like to get back to the concept. We were talking about company brand versus personal brand. Right now our social media content is kind of focusing on both. We've got our company brand that I focus on probably more than Ari's personal brand, and Ari really is the brand of the company.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Makes sense.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So my question is, my time is limited. I only have so much to put into it. Which one makes more sense to put more time into? Which one is doing better? From your perspective, are you doing it yourself on your own page at all?

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

My own LinkedIn page, you mean?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Or whatever you guys.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Yeah, so yeah, gets correct off my own LinkedIn page.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know what is always the worst? I mean, when Harriet was like, I'm sure this is fun to have her in a room. When you're in our industry as she is and you look at Vayner from the outside, people believe the vulnerability is it's so much about me and not enough about Vayner. And there's real truth to that. If you're an executive at smartwater and you're like, am I getting a company? Is it Gary? These are things you need to think about. At the same token, when you kind of start peeling away and you start realizing this is a company that doesn't have to win business through RFPs and you think about all the dollars, you start having a really. You have a more complicated debate for me, for example, this is why I'm bringing this up. The thing I'm probably most proud of in the 10 years that I've run this company and built this company is my ability to trick the market of how big it is. My biggest fear was if anybody in the big boy and girl world of advertising understood how big what I was building was going to be, that they were gonna focus on it. And, you know, I'd never competed against multi billion dollar international companies starting from zero. That's a challenge because if one really understood me, they could just throw money at it. Literally. If I was the competitor of VaynerMedia five years ago, I would have literally emailed every single person on LinkedIn that worked here and said, what's your salary? I will pay you three times more. And it would have Been the right business decision. So I've purposely not built VaynerMedia's brand because I needed the market, my competitors, to underestimate it and continue to think it's Gary and a bunch of interns. Who is this charlatan? And this can't be real. That was our advantage. From the outside, it's too much about me, right? But what nobody knew from the inside is I have no clients. I built a scalable company building up Gary. You would think, oh, shit, every client's gonna want Gary. I don't talk to any of them. So I was able to successfully create me as a top of funnel awareness. But then when it became a real meeting, she or he on the other side, the CMO knew right away. I'm not your account person. I can be in the bat phone business. We can have lunch once a year. But I'm the CEO and executive of this. I don't service your account. You're buying VaynerMedia. You're not buying Gary. That comes down to how he's running his business right now. Where you guys are at scale, right? So I guess those are the questions. Are you servicing the business? Is it a vulnerability right now? Is it small enough where we can keep leaning into what is actually working? Do you do a good job once the customer comes into the funnel to realize it's not him? Or is it still him at this point? Which is super fine too. That's the right formula for that. Does that make sense?

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

So to the extent, just to go that one step further, to the extent that it isn't me doing the servicing, where does that fall into the.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It is not you doing the servicing. Okay, that's very clear.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Early in the funnel, like conversation happens, right? That it's not gonna be. But I still do close almost all the new businesses. I get that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And so did I. Then I probably still. I would say this. If you are fortunate enough to have a face that has all the right personality traits, I'm sure you know Harriet's gonna continue. Like, I'm not looking to suppress my people into the press. I just don't want anybody to know who the fuck we are. There's strategy to it. So I think if you still have all the right characteristics, I think if you're fortunate enough to have a founder, if she or he has good characteristics and it's not about ego and insecurity and all those weird things, then you ride that personal brand because it converts better. A human face converts better than a logo. Often the struggle is Also his time, because he's the CEO and he's doing all these other things, his time is extremely limited. That's why I created Document, not Create. Can I. Yeah, you can bounce. You can bounce.

[Conference Organizer / Moderator]

We got time.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

So just the riff on that or what? We struggle a little bit. There is sort of in the B2B world, right? So we're a small company about, you know, a little over 40 people, the B2B world. So some interesting parallels like our markets as we're looking for for companies headquartered very nearby is a limited market where there's maybe like a thousand companies that could potentially be our clients locally. So we engage there. But the people that we connect to are generally CFOs and CEOs who care very little about the detail of how we execute, but care a lot about the outcomes that they get. So we. I find that we struggle or I struggle to see the Document versus Create when I feel like a lot of the documentation isn't super interesting to them and would necessarily get them.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Makes a ton of sense. So to that point I agree with you. I don't think you should Document Create, which is why we created the model around the podcast or the show. There's two ways to go and I think when you start inviting them, I mean, so you're saying it's literally just like the. Nothing excites me more and there's a couple here than to having a regional business to do a show around because then you get to host the party. I mean literally, literally. You guys should literally have every business leader, CEO and CFO on your show. Once you host a party, you win. I've said it a lot and maybe you've caught on my content. I call this the high school party rule. If you're the kid in high school who's lucky enough that your parents travel on weekends and you're like a C level popular kid, the second you throw the junior year party at your house, you go from a C to an A minus in popularity because you're letting the A pluses make out at your house.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

So where do we get. So where do we figure out how to get that? What that good content is like, where

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

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18.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Literally, once you establish some macro show, like whether you call it New England this or Hartford that, create a macro framework for it. And now you're emailing literally the people you want to do business with saying, we're intrigued by your leadership. We'd love to have you on the show versus emailing them saying, we want your business.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

We're already doing that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Now it's scale, scale, scale. I think to add another wrinkle to it is not only is it businesses, it's manufacturers, high tech manufacturers. So it's even more niche love. It's even better. Like they don't get any fucking love. Like what fucking podcast wants them on their show? Nobody. No, really. This is really quite crazy. I know you know it. You're feeling it intuitively. Like imagine a world, you know. This played out extremely for me real quick just to bounce around a little bit. On the PureWow and 137 side, we have podcasts. We just launched a show called the CMO Podcast. I got Jim Stengel who's like the former CMO of Procter and Gamble. He's like the legendary CMO to all the current CMOs. Cause Proctor was Proctor, he's the host. And literally the CMOs of the biggest companies in the world are literally coming through our door every day to be on a show. Imagine an hour, you will get everybody to say yes that you've been dying to have a conversation with about a business. If you say, come to my office and sit with me for an hour and I'm gonna interview you about your leadership, your business, your thing. They're literally walking into your fucking company. And if you really have the discipline to not sell and say nothing, nothing, inevitably she's gonna be on the way out or he's on the way out gonna say, what do you guys do here?

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Oh no, no.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Oh really? Actually I fucking hate my people. Why don't you call. I'm gonna put you in touch with Rick Thompson who runs our 100%.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

100%.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You could shoot the shit for an hour.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

No.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Easily.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Yeah, no, it's.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

By the way, there's nothing easier than to be a host of a podcast. You ask eight basic questions. How'd you get into this? What's been going on? It's super crazy.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

It's challenging.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Uh huh. I know. It's super obvious. And what's scary about super obvious? Is how well it works. Back to what I think about all the times. The reason I put out everything is I do not believe my ideas, even though a lot of times they're early and well thought out historically are my special sauce. My execution is my special sauce. Right.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Can I ask a question about the digging? It's like the. So how did you scale the business so quickly? So one of the biggest challenges that we have.

[Conference Organizer / Moderator]

Right.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Is we've almost. We've been fairly. We've been successful. So we, you know, our marketing strategy. We're doing a lot more digital now, but has been a lot of. We call it one to many. So, you know, they'll book me to go, like, to the Connecticut CPA association, do a lot of, like, just educational content.

[Conference Organizer / Moderator]

Right.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Zero about us. All about.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Think about how much if you film that and put on LinkedIn.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Totally. Yeah. And that's what we're starting. Super. So now the challenge we have is, like, we're almost overselling the capacity.

[Conference Organizer / Moderator]

Right.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

And it's not like McDonald's. I just get a bigger fry later and I generate more fries. Right. Getting the human capital ahead is a challenge.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

People overthink hiring. Just hire. It sounds scary. I'm gonna hire a clown. She or he's gonna suck, and I'm gonna lose the client. I'm like, but you wouldn't have had the client.

[Conference Organizer / Moderator]

Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And when you're willing to bleed if your ambition's high, I always feel like I'm able to fix.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

It's not the bleeding of the money. Although that means clearly that's somewhat part of it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, no. But notice how my analogy wasn't the money.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

It was the clients.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think you're coming from a good. I think most people come from a good place.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

I have a big fear around that of, like, breaking the brand. You know, we have so much good street credit. There's that huge fear of, like, fucking up that client.

[Sponsor Representative (Disney / Avatar)]

Bro.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Everything's fixable.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Yeah, they're up bad.

[E-commerce / Brand Manager]

I know.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Give them the money back. Like, money's not actually the thing for me. Like, I'm never scared because everything's fixable. I'll give you a year free of service. I'll fucking let your son intern here. I'll do whatever the fuck it. Like, everything's fixable if you have that. This is why I talk so much about intent. This is why I talk about lack of fear. Plus, the biggest mistake a lot of people make is they make a call for the other person. Life's about alternatives. Like, if the Client's happy. The client's happy. Regardless of what you're subjective of like our quality, right? It's hiring. I don't overthink hiring. I try my best. I hire.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

It doesn't work.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

People have so much ego in hiring. It's just this underlining insecurity to be wrong. I love when I'm wrong. Guys, I mean this. You don't know me well enough to. This is the truth. There's a weird part of me, I don't know if it's like, it's probably a very flawed, sick part. I get excited sometimes when I hire a very senior person, and a week later I'm like, nope. And I know that for the next 18 months. Because, you know, like, right, 18 months. And that's like C suite where, like, you just can't scare everybody that you're just fucking changing your underwear. You know what I mean? But, like, do you know what? That's happened to me twice a week in. I'm like, fucked it up. And then all the extra work I have to put in to disguise that and like, manage it and manage, you know? Then four months later, the smartest people start saying, wait a minute, I think this person sucks. And you gotta manage that. And then like nine months later, when the next level of smart people are like, I think this person sucks. And they're like, you gotta like the game.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

So just lack of fear.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Lack of fucking fear. And more importantly, like, no business than, yeah, firing. And listen, I'm the worst. I'm a bleeding heart. Like you would not imagine.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

You're a piece of content. Where you talked about, when you talked about sort of like, you know what? If you can't do it, just fuck it. Just overpay them out. So we're just like letting somebody go right now who. I just feel horrible. Like, she's got a bad situation. She's only been once for three months. I was like, just give her six months severance. Like, whatever.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I do it all the time, bro. It's gonna make it better. Dude, at the end of the. Dude, at the end of the day, it's not about money out here. It's about feeling good and happy. And I understand that my CFO's not happy with me, but that's what I need. I fucking fire people, give them a huge severance, and then I pay them on the side for two months. I need so much weird shit. I'm always like. I always think, like, man, if somebody investigated me, they'd be like, oh, here's the fucking silver bullet. Why is he paying Rick on the side? Cause I'm nice. Like, it's, like, super weird, but, like, it's really like. Like, nobody would ever believe me. Like, if you played that on, like, 60 Minutes of somebody trying to get me, they'd be, like, impossible.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Is it literally just your DNA? Like, is there some, like, mental nuance, this is crazy kind of question. But it's like, you know what I mean? Because we have sort of similar family backgrounds, actually. You know, like, Eastern European, Jew. Like, immigrants, right? And, like, so, you know, we just, first of all, beat up education, education, education. So, like, when I went off, like, the lawyer track, my parents were like, oh, my God, what's happening?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know, I got lucky. That's where I got really blessed. And I feel a huge sense of, like, guilt and gratitude. I can't believe my mom let me get away with D's and F's. Where everybody else was like, you're going to fucking Harvard. Like, I got really hit the lotto on that one.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

But that perfection was almost, like, beat in.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Not mine, not mine. That's where I'm trying to create clarity. It's why I'm so confident. All that happened in my life was everybody said I was losing except my mom. So think about that. You've won. That's actually the dream. The dream scenario for disproportionate confidence is the world tells you you fucking suck, but your mom tells you you're the best. And she's also smart enough to not create delusion. So when you go 0 for 4 in Little League, it wasn't the sun's fault in your eye or your coaches. It's, you suck. So it's accountability. But. Ugh, she fucking crushed it. Like, I am a complete byproduct of. And not only that, I've been hot on my mom's stuff lately. My dad saved my ass big. Because what I was also, though, by being such a good storyteller, was I was completely full of shit. When I was 14, I would say anything to sell anything. I lied out of my mouth 24 hours a day. And that's who I would have become. And that's what a lot of people think I am at first. Cause of my showmanship. But he corrected me. Cause I got lucky again. That my dad is. My dad thinks if you embellish to him once. Embellish? There were 19 people at the party. He's like, there were eight. And that's it. Three strikes, you're out. I'm not your friend. Literally. I don't know a single more extreme version of somebody who's more uncomfortable with exaggeration, let alone lying than my dad, which over a course of four or five years and my teenage years scared the fuck out of me. Cause it started with like, dad, I sold 98 bottles. He's like, you sold six. And then six became from 98 to 44 to 13 to six. And that got. You know, I got. I'm very aware of how this all happened. And then if it was reversed and my dad was first parenting me and my mom, I would have been a complete nightmare. I would have been insecure and full of shit. So I'm quite grateful. So anyway, I'm sorry, but I wanted to create that clarity that is important for you to know that part, though. And I think a lot of what you're hearing manifests from that. But I host the party.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Yeah, get back to the hosting the

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

party and let's talk more because you got three seats here. And if you have a question. But like, I think I would bounce back to. Part of the value of this is confirming what we already know. I'm watching already for sure. I know we should be doing that.

[Conference Organizer / Moderator]

No.

[E-commerce / Brand Manager]

So.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And then you get excited when you start to hear, like, do you guys have it so easy? It's like a niche within a niche, you know, the thousand businesses, geographically, you know. Yeah. Because geographically gets into branding that I get excited about. Like, to me, I wish, like, just. Cause I know how big I can make something. Cause I'm an operator, I'm like, man, if I had the New England business podcast, it's game over. Give me one year. Manufacturer business podcast. Yeah, but like, you know, like. Yeah, that's exactly right. I think we've been struggling a little bit with, like, we've done this, we've done that.

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

What are the results?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Why aren't they calling us yet versus us patients? That is audacity. That's ego. I never think anything. I think I suck. I'm being dead serious. I'm confident. But, like, I genuinely wake up this morning and be like, I could suck for the next year and make a ton of bad decisions. And literally everything I've done is wiped. You know, I believe that business is unforgiving compared to sports on this one. In sports, Muhammad Ali can lose to Trevor Berwick in his last fight. We don't know that. I know that because I'm a boxing nerd. You don't know that. Right. Business is different. When you lose, everyone then wipes out what you've done.

[Franchise Marketing Manager]

Well, like Boeing.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What's that? Like Boeing? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, the narrative can change very quickly. We shit on Woolworths. It was the dominant retailer in this country for 100 fucking years.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

So. But on that journey, right, so not just saying the audacity of exposure, why doesn't happen faster? But there's got to be something to know you're on the right track, right? Is it just content?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, no. The market speaks your business. I knew I was on the right track because the first two years, when I was half pregnant on VaynerMedia, we did 3 million in revenue. And the first year I ran it, we went from 3 to 14. That was very obvious. And 14 to 27, like business results.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

And that was all based on what? Larger. Less clients, bigger fees, More like, there's a lot of.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

There's a lot of things I'm good at. And the core thing I'm good at is a mix of the followings. I tend to sell something that most people don't see at first. It ends up being right a lot of times, which creates the back end. But at the time, I'm extremely good at selling. In the short term, there was no brand. Twitter had a lot of followers, so there was a little something. But what I'm really good at is wasting no time on selling to the unsellable. Like, one of the reasons I'm fascinated by franchise to become a franchisor. And I'm like, what would I do? Is. Cause I would be incredible at getting franchisees for a couple reasons. One, I'm just. A lot of entrepreneurs look up to me and like, so that would be good probably. But after I filled the bucket, it's like empathy. Okay, I've sold my $2 million worth of wine. Now I've got another 4 million to sell now. It's work in that part. I just don't fucking waste time. Like, I go to a new business pitch back to the same way I know somebody I fucked up on. I go to a new business pitch, it's scheduled for an hour. I sometimes bounce after 30 because I decide it's over three minutes in, I'm like, she has no interest in me. And I don't have ego to be like. To convince her I'll give it my best at bat and hopefully he or she will like it. But I think the reason I was able to grow so quickly is I'm very good at selling and focusing on people that will actually buy.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

So get enough people interest and then

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

move on from those things. I think it's funny, back to what you said, I never think I deserve anything, period. And look, VaynerMedia is the only company run by somebody who actually has success in doing the work that they do, like, in the whole fucking ad world. Like, I laugh when people think I'm Gary Vee and don't realize I'm running this company. You're doing social media work with an agency that was built to make television commercials. I'm like the fucking poster child of the whole game, you know? And yet we don't get business from people all the time.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Yeah, of course. Of course. You're only gonna get certain batting average don't work out the way it does.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But I think if you host a party and go, if you create the right packaging and then the right merchandising of that packaging, it's off to the races.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

How did you recruit early on? What was it technically, to get those, like, fill the funnel, get the staff.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I hired 50 kids who had no idea what the fuck they were doing just from where. You mean employees or.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Yeah, employees.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

At the time, I had a big enough Twitter. My brother brought like six of his friends from high school and college. I mean, he was a fucking rat. I mean, we didn't have any agency people. So at the level you're at that now, the content will recruit. Run your podcast against employees of your competitors that you want to hire.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

We need to do a lot more paid.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You have to do a lot more paid when organic. This is for everybody. When organic went away from Facebook and everybody got their anger and like, fuck Facebook, I got fucked. I got pumped. Because people started getting confused because paid was underpriced. And I was like, I. I'm unemotional. I get that this was free, but if this is still a good deal, then it's still a good deal. I don't care about yesterday. Back to that mentality. Like, yesterday doesn't matter. Facebook's free. You got all that organic traffic. You weren't paying Facebook for that organic traffic. It was a trade. They had a platform with a lot of attention. You produced content for it, and a trade, the organic goes down, you have to pay for it. You have to do a lot more paid. The reason you have to do a lot more paid, everybody is you can target who you want to reach. When you know you're about to spend $150 against employees of your direct competitor from eight towns over, you're already thinking differently in the video. You're about to make. You might make a video of, like, how fun it is at your foosball table in your office. Cause Rick at the other company's like, we don't have a foosball table. I only make content knowing who's going to see it.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

And the answer is, do it right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

People are like, you always go viral. I'm like, I made a video called you're 65 and your life's not over. And I ran ads against people who are 65. It's gonna do well. It's really. People underestimate how powerful it is.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Action's the key. Execute. Just do something.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But if you make the podcast, you'll crush. Because now you're gonna have CEOs and CMFO's come in and be guests. That's gonna already be a slight biz dev opportunity. But you're also gonna be able to post, produce, and run some of those funny quotes, funny moments you're gonna be at. She's gonna be looking. You're gonna be thinking, oh, Jason and I are doing it right now. I'm like, what I'm telling you to do, I'm doing right now. As I'm talking, I'm looking at him like, did you see that? Was that smart? Should we cut that? Let's test that. That's what you'll be doing in a year. And now all of a sudden, you answered a question where the CFO of the top 15 company, like, is really caught off guard, and she's like, that's smart. Now you're like, ooh, you know, now you're running it against all CFOs. The machine.

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

One question. So you always talk about the content on the market side.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes.

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

So for you, when you want one library, you said a year and nobody watched it.

[Sponsor Representative (Disney / Avatar)]

Yes.

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

So if we're producing content, personal brand and other things, you didn't let that swing you, but did the market, you know, eventually?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Because I have no expectations of the market for a long time.

[Business Owner / Franchisee]

But the wine versus the motivation business mindset seems to be driving differently. Do you think the wine content would do well right now?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think I'm a showman in hindsight, something I didn't know about myself at 34, I really didn't. Like, I never. I got a D in speech, you know, like, I didn't know that I had this schtick. I knew I was a good salesman on the floor at the liquor store. I knew that I was a good class clown where the teacher wasn't mad at me. So I Knew I had a good tact, but none of this stuff even crossed my mind. So, I mean, I think if I did anything tomorrow, it would work. Really. If I talk about something I knew, like if I did a sports, I would be the number. I genuinely believe I'd be the number one voice in sports today. If I decided tomorrow, for the next three years to go all in, I think I'd be bigger than Stephen A. Smith and Max Kellerman and all these. I just do. Because I think I have a personality that clicks with people. That's just a trait. Some people don't. That's why I talk about writing and audio. You might not be great on video, but you might be a tremendous writer. Or you might just not be cracked up to be the personality. Then you lean into the logo or hire somebody. MetLife hired Snoopy

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

piece of content where you talked about how this thing at Vayner where you, like, invested and then investment year, profit year.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Oh, the stairs.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Just not. I think I'm uncomfortable with not having some cash on hand for a rainy day. So. I think I used to think a lot. Now I've molded a little bit from it. But I'm a very big fan of getting people to invest in their business instead of taking the money off the table. Like, just. Everybody wants to build big businesses, but then what they're really doing is building lifestyle businesses for the things they want. Which is also tough for me because if you want a car or like, kudos, do your thing. But yeah, I mean, I aggressively in the first five years of Vayner and the first five years of Wine Library had a pretty hardcore system where, like, one year I would try to make no profit.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

You invested all of it?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

All of it.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

All of it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

0. In the following year, a little bit more.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Which is like 5

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

for both. I'll give it to you for both businesses between 5 and 10%.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Is that where you run it today is like, keep running it the same

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

way you change that I keep running it. Cause I'm just like. But again, I'm building it in perpetuity. You have to know what you're up to. Again, if somebody here wants to flip their business. And I'm sure everybody's big boy and big girl enough to know that. But yeah, I mean, look, it's your other family member, right? You gotta feed it, gotta take care of it, you know.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Cool.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

If you wanna build big.

[Marketing Executive / Team Member]

Yeah. Which is the goal.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, then you got to feed it. And then that's when you can hire and fire like all that stuff because you're not worried about the people like, well, Gary, it costs more to fire somebody. Well, I'm not as worried about the profit margin being insane. I'm trying to catch the growth. Everybody, if you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention, and thanks for being part of this journey. See you later.