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- [00:00]
A
Long form content, like long YouTube videos
- [00:03]
B
are dead uncomfortably false. We just sat here for 40 minutes and gave a ton of fucking value. Plus now we have a piece of content that we can chop up into 13 pieces of content. Long form video, I would argue is the starting point. Long form video is crushing on Netflix, Amazon Prime, YouTube Podcasts. That's an excuse of the wound. This is the GaryVee audio experience.
- [00:29]
A
This guy doesn't need an introduction. We've got Gary V. Widely regarded as the original influencer. Gary was listed as Forbes top social influencers in 2017. Since he's built Vander Media into a global powerhouse and been voted a six time New York best selling author. Pleasure to have you on, man.
- [00:47]
B
Thanks my man. Happy New Year.
- [00:50]
A
Happy New Year's. Listen, you were born in Belarus and came to America as a child and you started trading cards. You know, let's just talk about the early hustle to get, just get everybody familiar with how you got started.
- [01:05]
B
Yeah, even before trading cards, which was really fifth, sixth, seventh grade, you know, I was, you know, you know, this tone. Like some people are just born for certain things. Like when I see athletes or when I see musicians, you know, back in the day, like a lot of tennis players were like 14 and 15 and winning grand Slams, especially on the female side, these Olympians that are like 12 and winning the gold medal. I was just that person with business. By fourth grade, I was getting D's and F's because I couldn't understand why it mattered. I was so passionate about lemonade stands and washing cars. If it snowed, I wanted to shovel snow five bucks instead of sledding. If it was 90 degrees out, I wanted to sell lemonade or ring doorbells and wash cars. It was just so in me and, and yeah, I just refined that game as a child and then as a teenager. And I've just always been in both business but also hard work. I think there's some people smarter than me that are like business people, but they're like, they figure out, let me code this. And I've just been in both get dirt under my fingers and grind. I've tried to be smart, but I love the process. I love the practice, I love the late nights. I love, I'm just that person that's process over profits. Even the money has shockingly not been at some level the motivator. Even as a kid, it was just more fun for me to create a fake little store in the neighborhood and have people buy things than getting the money. I didn't Even wanna buy shit. It wasn't even like that. It was just the fucking game. You know what I mean?
- [02:46]
A
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, so the money didn't matter. One of the things I've noticed, you know, right now we employ 1300 people. And the people that came as immigrants, they're relentless. They're not afraid of rejection. They are like, this is the United States of America. Do you think being an immigrant just gave you a one up?
- [03:06]
B
Yeah. And I would say that for a lot of immigrants like myself, you know. Cause I was born in a shithole. The USSR was a bad place. And then we came here. We were dead fucking broke. So we lived in a shithole in Queens, like New York. Like, I don't think it was per se. The immigrant, like, I would argue an American born in a trailer park has that same advantage, which is like, when you're from the fucking dirt, you're like. You're a different animal. I mean, it's not complicated, right? Like, does a zoo animal beat a. Does a lion that grew up in the zoo beat a lion from the jungle? Never. And so, you know, and then I had the tone, I had the best circumstance, which is we didn't have shit, but we had. My mom filled every room with nothing but love and optimism and joy. So some people grow up in shit, but the parents are in a shit place and it's dark. You know, I grew up, we didn't have shit, but we had the most important shit, which is fucking nurturing, love, fucking, you know, I just had a fucking monster mother. And so, like, I was destined to be unstoppable because no one was gonna fuck with me because my mommy said I'm good. You know, like, it was like, what do you want from me? Like, I'm not gonna believe you. My mom said I'm good. My mom said I can fuck you, you know?
- [04:28]
A
Yeah, 100%. I felt like I got the most love if literally I got in a car accident. And the person that lived, my mom would come out with a shovel. Doesn't have the best back, but she'd be like, let's go ahead and take care of this. If I did go to prison, she'd move next to the prison. I mean, I'm her baby boy. Like, that's it. Like, she's gonna be close. Well, my dad was relentless. Did your dad have a, like, competitive, like, no participation trophies? What was your dad. What is his claim to how you turned out?
- [04:56]
B
His best claim is word is bond. He really my dad. I don't know what my dad thought. I didn't see him until I was 14. He worked every minute. He showed me how to live a certain life. He didn't tell me my dad wasn't. I didn't have a dad that told me life lessons. My dad showed me life lessons. How to be a man, provide for your family. Fucking your word is what you fucking back up. He was old school like that. He didn't even know what I was doing in sports. I think my dad, this is real. Showed up to one sporting event in my life and it was. Cause the baseball game was like five minutes from the liquor store and he popped out. It was huge for me. I mean, I can't even explain what it feels like in my body right now. I was shook that he was there. It was that out of character, out of my norm. He woke up and went to work before I woke up and he came home after I went to bed and he worked seven days a week. So I didn't fucking see my father until I started working in the liquor store that he had when I was 14. And that's when I really got to know my dad. The next 20 years was all my dad. I was in the liquor store all the time. And he was cynical and like different than my mom, but my mom had already laid the foundation and my dad was able to sprinkle in his things and you know, I'm obviously incredibly grateful for my parents.
- [06:17]
A
Yeah. So you started working at your dad's Jersey liquor store and you started the E Commerce giant, the wine, wine library, tv. What do you think you learned in the process of watching dad and just even before you constantly were thinking about the business?
- [06:36]
B
Well, there was only probably one year of that tone. There was only one year where I wasn't thinking about the business that I saw my dad. It was the first year I worked in the liquor store. I fucking hated it. You know, I just came from. I just came from making actual money. 300 bucks, 600 bucks, 200 bucks, 500 bucks at the malls of New Jersey, selling cards and fucking being my own boss at 13 and fucking feeling like a fucking million bucks. And. And now I'm working my dad's liquor store on the weekends instead and I'm getting paid $2 an hour to bag ice in a dungy fucking basement like I was sloth from goonies with some 17 year old fucking degenerate who hated my fucking father. And I'm fucking bagging ice for 10 hours a day. My fucking pinky's about to fucking fall off cause it's so fucking cold in that ice box. I'm like what the fuck is this? Could give a fuck was in the basement. I hated it. And what I learned was what I didn't wanna do. My dad was a dick to his employees. Straight up. He would yell at them. I didn't like it. This was not where's this fuckin optimistic rainbows that I was used to with my mom. It was year two when I went upstairs and started stocking shelves where I started thinking about the business. Cause I could watch customers. I was a psycho. I was watching how they bought, what they bought, why I was fucking 14. Psycho, bro. Like fucking business savant. In hindsight it was my norm, I didn't know anything else. But now looking back I'm like that's just crazy that I was so in that game. And I learned a lot of things, no question. The thing I learned from my dad was no complaining and hard work, period. End of story. You know, like did not complain. It didn't even cross his mind, nor my mother for that matter. Everything was so shitty back in the USSR in the 60s and 70s when they were growing up that the worst things happening in. My grandma got mugged the first week we were in America. And we were just happy that she didn't go to jail for 10 years, you know what I mean? It was such gratitude of being in America. So it was hard work and discipline and non complaining. I also learned not to eat breakfast and lunch. My dad didn't eat breakfast still today. Yeah, my dad did not eat breakfast or lunch and I don't eat breakfast or lunch like 35 years later. That's been like my framework. All this intermittent fasting that got popular like five years ago. I've been on that shit for 20 years.
- [09:05]
A
Let me ask you this. So this is an out of the box question I didn't have written down. But if you got to go, if your dad hired you today and you know your dad, what would you tell your dad about pricing? Would you tell him raise your prices obviously before the Internet game. Cause that's what you really revolutionized the business. But you know what, you gotta give
- [09:24]
B
em a couple tips.
- [09:24]
A
What do you think you tell them?
- [09:25]
B
Well if I'm thinking about your audience and all that and what I good news, let me tell you the real story. I started working at my Dad's store in 1990. I didn't launch winelibrary.com until 1997. I made a big impact on my dad's business before the Internet. The Internet obviously took us to the moon. And then wine library, tv. I got wine Internet famous. And that took our business to the moon. But there was several things. First, I was into merchandising. So my father's the first impact I had on my dad was making signs for the store. Like, there would just be a box with wine and be like, $4.99. I'm like, no one wants to buy this shit. I'd make a big ass sign and be like, this wine pairs with fucking chicken. And it's better than $10 wines. And all of a sudden we're selling three times as much. I'm like, that was number one. Number two was the customer's always right, even when they're wrong. My dad was very good about customer being right. But my dad's very principle. So if a customer was trying to be cute, he didn't like that shit. And I definitely changed our culture of like, that's a battle not worth fighting. You cursing out a customer on the floor who's trying, forget about stealing. I'm talking about being cute with a coupon or something. Well, the other customers see that dad and that's bad for our reputation. That's gonna fuck up her. So a little bit of that, little controlling the emotions. And then the biggest thing, my dad's liquor store was called Shoppers discount liquors. We sold beer and liquor. I was very good at listening to the customer. I knew that people wanted to buy more premium wine from us, so I brought in a lot more premium wine. I also got educated about wine and started really getting wine nerdy. There was more margin in wine than there was in beer and liquor. So really, those were some of the big and most of all brother employees. If my dad was on right now, and you were like, yo, og Sasha. That's his name, Sasha. What'd the kid teach you? He would say to treat the employees better. And I don't blame my dad. My dad's not a bad person. Let me tell you, Tony, what was going on? You know, it's like, what was going on, Tommy, was that in Russia, everyone stole because the government owned everything. Tommy. Right. So my dad just thought everyone was gonna steal in America too. They didn't like, you know, like, he just grew up in an environment where employees stole everything. Everything in Russia was the black market. You worked at the butchers, the government owned the butcher store. You would steal some of the meat and try to trade it for some clothes. Everything was scarce, you know, so you Know, my dad's first piece of advice to me the first day I went to the store was keep an eye on the employees they try to steal. That was his first piece of advice to me.
- [12:08]
A
Wow.
- [12:09]
B
So I think I transformed him from seeing the employees as enemies to seeing the employees as teammates.
- [12:18]
A
Very valuable lesson. You know, it's funny, I didn't know you were there seven years before the. What did you see about the Internet? Because there's bitcoin right now. There's AI. But you were like. I mean, this is before you even had anything to buy. Domains, really. It was hard to get a website up in 1997. How did you see that? The World Wide Web. And what was gonna happen with it?
- [12:41]
B
You know how, like, some people are like talent agents or like, remember, like back in the day. How old are you, brother? Tommy, how old are you?
- [12:49]
A
42.
- [12:50]
B
Great. You're a hair underneath me. I'm 50. You might have caught this, but you definitely are probably aware of it. Back in the 70s, these A and R guys in music, they'd have to go to a fucking club and like, catch fucking, you know, Guns N roses playing to 50 people and be like, these guys, you know what I mean? Like, someone discovered Pearl.
- [13:07]
A
That's the next best.
- [13:08]
B
Yeah, yeah, like, that's right. Exactly. And in sports, right, you see like a kid and you're like, I see, you know, like somebody in high school. Yeah. So I have that in business. I do. I have it, like, to be dead serious. Here's your answer. In 1995, I went into a dorm room. Cause there was some commotion. And they're like, you gotta see this. And I've heard of it, like a little bit like on the news or something. The World Wide Web. The information superhighway, bro. I did not own a computer. I was not a tech nerd. Like, I wasn't that kid. But I literally watched. Literally, for the young kids listening, I watched someone go on the Internet on aol. Like, I stood behind him on a desktop computer and heard that shit, if you remember, and watched a human go on the Internet. And I was like, what the. You know, like, quick. Like, I was like. And then I waited an hour. Cause Everybody got like 5, 10 minutes to fuck around. And I sat down. This changed my life, brother. I fucking just typed in, like, buying baseball cards. And we didn't even go to the web. We stayed in AOL and I found a bulletin board where people were like, Eric Davis, rookie card, nine bucks. Looking for Donruss 82. I was like, what is my brain was. And I was like, is this that prodigy shit that some kid told me about a couple years? This is real. I'm giving you my internal thinking. And, bro, 20 minutes later, I swear to God, on my kid's health, I was like, this is gonna change my life. That's it. I don't know what else to tell you. I just knew that every fucking person on earth was gonna do this shit and that I had to figure out how to use it for business. And the two things I used it for were the only two things I knew. I found ebay a few months later and started posting and buying and flipping. And I started trying to convince my father that we needed a fucking website for a single store, liquor store in New Jersey. And I registered winelibrary.com. that was a name I was kicking around with my dad because I wanted to change our store from Shoppers Discount Liquors. And we launched one of the first five E Commerce wine stores in the country.
- [15:24]
A
It's quite the story. You know, I found out about Craigslist early on, and that changed my life forever because I posted 500 ads a day on Craigslist.
- [15:33]
B
And you know this, brother. Like, hustlers like us, like, we find the thing we're not scared to waste. You know what my biggest strength is? I wonder if this is yours, Tommy. And I wonder if I want people to hear this. I'm not scared to waste my time, even now when it's extremely valuable. Bro, I get paid. I'm just gonna be very honest here. I get paid $350,000 to give a keynote speech for an hour right in New York City, which takes me 10 minutes to get to. But I'll sit and spend nine hours on something that might never materialize. Because I know if all I need is one of those things, bitcoin, blockchain, AI, Social media. I mean, it's happened to me, you know, time and time again. I've wasted many hours to not waste several hours that have changed the course of my life. And everybody out here, brother, that's listening, many of them are scared to waste their time when their fucking time is worthless.
- [16:28]
A
Yeah, well, they'll watch their Netflix and they'll do the. You know, Jeff Bezos said, and this is probably one of the best quotes is, in baseball, you could get four runs, but in business, if you hit a home run, you get 10,000.
- [16:40]
B
Yeah, it's a great quote.
- [16:41]
A
So that's basically VCs. You know, you don't hit them all in the park. But you got to be willing to take the time, meet the people. And what you learn how to do is recognize winners. And I'm sure real quick for people that you invested, because you could invest in. Bitcoin is a little bit different. But when you're investing in a business, what do you look for in the person? What kind of traits?
- [17:05]
B
I've run the gamut. Again, I don't know if you're doing video or audio, but these stock certificates above my head which write those, that's Facebook, Twitter and Tumblr. They were the first three companies I invested in. I killed it. Sometimes your first album is your best. Actually in music, a lot of times your first album's your best album. But in those scenarios, I looked at the horse and the jockey. So Twitter, Facebook and Tumblr had already existed when I invested. They were early. First little couple, first year, first couple months, first year. So I could see what it was. I could taste it. Back to the Internet thing. And then when I met the kids, Ev Williams, who was Jack Dorsey's partner, he was primary for me. They were really co founders. Mark Zuckerberg obviously went on to be one of the iconic businessmen of all time. And this really brilliant kid, David Karp, the founder of Tumblr, who I would argue understood where social was going. I think TikTok is more Tumblr than it is Facebook. You see interest instead of social. Anyway, all three of them workaholics, you know, ambition. I felt like they could will their way to the other side. Later taught me. Cause I wanna teach people about my mistakes. And after those three, where I loved both the platform and the person, later I started investing in companies even earlier. So I had to hear a pitch of an idea and judge the kid. I started to overvalue education, which was crazy. Cause I fucking hated school and thought it meant nothing. But too many of the startups, the kids went to Stanford and Harvard. So I got tricked. And so I started overvaluing the college they went to. That was bad. I started overvaluing the idea because I couldn't see the product because they were pitching me the idea. It was early. And I thought about how I as a good operator would operate it. But I didn't know how to judge a kid. If they knew how to operate, I could judge their energy, their tenacity, their hopes and dreams. So my chapters for a long time in very early startup life, early stage, four million dollar valuation angel round that proved to be great because I hit some real home runs. Venmo and other things of that nature. But definitely in hindsight was a little bit more guessing than I would like. Because if I want to gamble, I'll go gamble, right? If I want to invest, I'm now looking for the jockey and the horse and I want to see the horse. Show me your little pony. Like, show me at six months, like now when I meet with people.
- [19:44]
A
Give me a little bit more proven.
- [19:45]
B
Just show me. I don't even care. You don't need any success. I need to fucking see it, right? Like, I can't look at the deck anymore. Show me the product. Six months. I can project if it's gonna be different. Netflix was fucking very different when it came out than what it is now. Venmo. I can project, but I need to see it, I need to touch it. And so that's where I'm at as an investor.
- [20:07]
A
Now. Let me ask you a few repeat questions I ask every person that comes on. What's one piece of game changing advice that you wish you knew in your 20s?
- [20:19]
B
It's not advice, it's I wish I knew what my kryptonite was in my 20s so I could fix it. Gary Vee, Tommy, as you can tell on this podcast, he's as a public figure, very canderous. Shoots it straight. Gary Vaynerchuk, in real life, if I like you, even if I don't even need to love you, if I like you, I struggled with giving you actual feedback. Cause I was scared that you would get scared and get fucked up or like I didn't value candor. So I wish in my twenties I understood that candor was a gift you were giving to people, not a scare tactic.
- [20:58]
A
Really, really, really wise, you know, feedback. There's a great book firm Feedback in a fragile world. Because very hard to accept feedback. And it's probably the hardest thing about business. But when you get good at it, the world's your oyster.
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B
We call it, we call it internally Kind Candor.
- [21:17]
A
Kind Candor, Yeah.
- [21:18]
B
I have 2,700 employees at VaynerX, at our marketing firm, VaynerMedia. And we call it Kind Candor. And I've been training it to my team and it's changed our business.
- [21:32]
A
Give me an example.
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B
You know this, brother. You're now in your career. A lot of our managers use candor or feedback as an excuse to be a dick face.
- [21:44]
A
Yeah.
- [21:44]
B
The end. We have managers, you and I, who have kids that are more talented than them, reporting to them. And the manager's gonna suppress them. Cause they're scared they're gonna leapfrog them. So if you just call it firm feedback or if you just call it candor, well, now you got a fucking problem. Because people are gonna weaponize it by calling it kind candor and holding our leaders accountable to it. They know they're getting graded by the people, that they're giving feedback as well. And one of the things we ask is, did they have any question? Did the person giving you this feedback show any level of humanity? What does that mean? It means that, you know, it's that old Mary Poppins song. I don't fucking remember it, but it's like, little sugar on it. Like, you know, I don't. What's that? Little spoonful of sugar.
- [22:30]
A
Sugar helps the medicine go down.
- [22:32]
B
That's it. I'm a buyer. You're gonna have to tell someone that they're on the verge of getting fired or they're not doing a good job. But starting with a little bit of, like, hey, brother. And not, like, fucking over coddling bullshit, like, just checking the box. Just be a fucking human. Be like, yo, you show up. You're a fucking dude. Like, hey, lady, you're awesome. You got a lot of creativity. But, like, hey, these things have to happen, or the calculus is. Is gonna. You know, it's sports. You're gonna get benched. You're awesome. We love you, but you're gonna get benched. And sometimes that's less opportunity, and sometimes, unfortunately, that's getting cut from the team. And like. But I think you gotta be a human.
- [23:11]
A
I love it. If you had $10 million in your account, that's it. You know, businesses still got your contacts. Where are you putting the money?
- [23:20]
B
So I got 10 million, but I have nothing else.
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A
You have no other businesses, but you still have connections. You still have relationships.
- [23:29]
B
Oh, I'm starting a business that I'm in charge of. You know, I'll decide what I want to sell or do. But, like, I'm not investing it. I'm not buying real estate. I'm not buying bitcoin. All things I like. I'm. I'm starting a business because I can turn that ten into a hundred, easy. Yeah, I mean, you could take my connect, bro. You could take my connections away. And I'm doing the same thing because I just know how to. I'm an operator, bro.
- [23:57]
A
Yeah.
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B
I have seven meaningful businesses. I call myself the business juggler. I have seven real businesses. I have a TV production company called VaynerWatt. I have a huge sports agency for all the sports fans. Vayner Sports reps. Bo Bichette just signed with the Mets for a buck 40. Sauce Gardner, Aiden Hutchinson, Kirk Cousins, we got tons of UFC fighters. Ian Garry about to have a huge fight. Pifer's got a huge fight with Israel coming up. So I got Vayner Sports. I have a huge restaurant group with five very successful restaurants in Manhattan, three in Vegas, brand new ripping called the VCR group. And then I have VaynerMedia. 400 million in revenue this year. Tommy. 400 million in sales, not valuation. Not some bullshit 400 million in sales. I got Veefriends, which is my Pokemon meets Sesame street thing that I'm building. The. It could be the biggest company I ever build, right? Like I'm a real fucking operator, doing over half a billion in revenue in my companies. I'm an operator. Yes. I'm a motivational speaker and an author and a personality and a personal brand. Yes. I know people see me in 15 second clips in Feed or on LinkedIn, but I'm a real fucking operator. I was 34 years old before I made business content on the Internet and already built a big business for my dad, you know, and restarted with nothing. Cause I built the business for my dad. Sometimes people try to fucking flame me and they're like, don't listen to this guy. Trust fund baby, his dad gave him a winery. They make up all sorts of shit. They have no idea my story. I work 22 to 34 every minute, fucking 100 hours a week, seven days a week in a liquor store and started VaynerMedia in a fucking conference room in another company. Cause I had no money to my name for rent because I got paid nothing. Working for my liquor store because my dad didn't pay himself either. It was all going back into the business. But the problem for me was he owned the business and had that asset. I had shit. So, like, I don't need anything. I'm a fucking operator.
- [25:50]
A
Well, one question. You got these businesses you're juggling. Is there ever. You know, I've always built to sell if I can't sell a business in five years or less. Not that I have to sell it if things are going well, but that's,
- [26:05]
B
that's generally I'm a different player. I love that. And good for you. And that's awesome. And you like that game. I'm completely the other way. I want to die and leave it to people.
- [26:18]
A
I love it. So there's no businesses you plan on selling ever?
- [26:22]
B
I've had to Sell two businesses. One was Empathy Wines. You could see it right over my shoulder here. These wines we sold in 18 months. We sold that business for just short of nine figures to Constellation Brands. I had two partners that started as interns with me at VaynerMedia. They were my partners in that direct to consumer wine brand. They were also both about to get married. We got this opportunity. They looked at me with those four puppy dog eyes and I was like, God damn it. So we sold it. They made some money. It's really lovely. And the other business I sold in my career was I was the co founder and co creator of the of Resy, the restaurant app that's sold to American Express that I'm sure a lot of people are familiar with that company. I co came up with the idea. I was an investor and put money in. We housed that company in VaynerMedia. I was always there for Ben. Ben was the captain, I was the co pilot. I definitely made some big cash and strategic moves. I feel like my DNA's in that exit. But that was a big exit for Ben specifically, especially. And so those are the two businesses that have sold in my time. But neither one of them were like the majority. My businesses were like the lead. It's me, I own it. I don't have to factor anyone else's needs into the decision.
- [27:40]
A
Just one quick thing. Have you ever heard Die with Zero? The book?
- [27:44]
B
I have not with zero, tell me.
- [27:46]
A
So the book just like listen, when you're 35 compared to when you're 85, a trip means more, right?
- [27:52]
B
Yeah.
- [27:52]
A
You could go do more. You go hiking, you do more.
- [27:54]
B
Yeah.
- [27:55]
A
And you could give and actually see your money be given. If you're, you know, 56 years old and you see, wow, I'm actually making an impact. Yeah, see your impact. So I'm not, I'm not disregarding what you're saying. I'm just thinking so many people, they make, they do all this work and they're workaholics and then they go to their grave and then they don't get to see the fruits of their labor, by the way.
- [28:17]
B
But I have. Let me explain. I run very profitable businesses. I just did a $10 million over 10 year commitment to charity Water. I'm gonna see that impact. I've been to Ghana, I've watched the schools, I've built with pencils of Promise. I don't want stuff right. I don't want a Lamborghini, I don't want four houses. I don't want them all I want is the New York jets to win a Super bowl. And I'm not in control of that yet, you know, you know, I'm a workaholic. Not for the. I don't want the trophies, I want the process. I don't need validation from the money. I also have plenty of money. My apartment's plenty nice. I've had multiple homes. Like I've got stuff because I run profitable businesses and kick my self distribution. But I don't need much, you know what I mean? Like to your point, I love how you frame that. I've been able to do enormous amounts of impact financially through charitable work. And then also why I spend so much time building the Gary Vee brand. I've literally fundamentally changed people's lives because of my content. And that feels so I'm fulfilled as a human. And then for me, selfishly, Tommy, I. You know, I've said this a couple times recently. Cause it's the only way I can explain it. Tell me, I don't know how you vacation, but the way I like to vacation because I go so hard is I want to plop my ass on a beach, fucking do nothing, listen to music, eat three times, go to sleep. You know, on some of these vacations, as I've grown in my career, the places are nicer, right? You go from Club Med to like fucking Amanyara, right? I've always been fascinated with the kid that is just building a sandcastle all, all fucking day. And then the sun's coming down, it's time to get cleaned up and go for dinner. And mom and dad are like, yo Johnny, Yo Tommy. It's time to go. And this kid fucking. I'm just laying there just listening to music and thinking and vegging out. And literally have watched this kid from 9:00am to fucking 5:00pm Build this fucking immaculate. Whether he did a good job or him and his sister or the sister or just her, whether they did a good job or not. I've watched eight hours of work. Hey Tommy, time for dinner. And then the kid just smashes it and runs up, bro, I'm that kid. I just need to. I just am curious and am enjoying to see how big I can build all this juggling. I don't need the financial payoff. I get enough of what I need from the day to day distributions and all that. That's what makes me happy. I on the flip side, it was funny when you were like, I build businesses. I was smiling inside. I'm like, that's fucking awesome. That's his Chemicals. That's how he likes the game. I like my game for me. I don't recommend my game for anyone. Unless what I just said for the last four minutes lit you up on this. If you're listening right now, well, then let's go then. Do that. You can do that too. You got the Tommy way, you got the Gary way, and you got 100,000 other ways. Just do it for you. You do it for fucking you. Did you ever see Rocky IV with Drago?
- [31:23]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [31:24]
B
I don't know if you know, I'm Russian, so I know what he was saying at the last scene, and it's really just Rocky celebrating. So it's a scene that a lot of people don't remember, but there's a scene at the end where Drago, after he lost, is, like, yelling at the Russian crowd in the Russian premiere. And he's saying in Russian, he's like, fuck you all for booing me like, I was in this ring for me. Not for the country, not for you. Ya c bia I was for. I was in it for. I'm in here for me. It's me. I'm the man in the fucking arena. That's how I see life. I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to impress anyone. I'm not trying to convince anyone. I don't think I'm special. I'm just fucking in the arena for me. And for me, I just want to keep playing. I'm intoxicated by the holding the breath of it all, and that's how I roll.
- [32:16]
A
You know, when I walked up to you, you were at Yano's event. It was out in the desert. Cristiano, it was probably five years ago. We drank plenty of wine.
- [32:23]
B
Yep.
- [32:24]
A
You went on there and you said, you know, all you guys doing billboards, why billboards? I could beat you with social media. It might take a hundred tries. But I also went up to you and I said, you know, Gary, my mom and a lot of other people in my life say, when is enough enough? And you go, tommy, I get that all the time. He said, I'm still having fun. I'm just getting started. It's just start. It's starting to get easier. And that had to be five, six years ago at this point. And I'll never forget that, because I was like, yeah, I'm like, Tiger Woods. Mom didn't say you won four. You know, you win the. The grand School, Tommy.
- [32:57]
B
That's because a lot of people around us really think it's about the money. And by the way, it's a. It's. I just want everyone to hear this. Everyone's allowed for it to be about the money. And I want to say a curve ball to everyone here. I wish all of you knew me at 17. I'm not saying this gibberish right now because now I have money. I was saying this gibberish when I didn't have. That's why I was such a psycho and signed up for building a huge business for my parents and left with nothing, Dick. Zero. I left with fulfillment. Back to what you said. Leave with zero. I fucking lived it, bro. I gave all of my best youth years to my parents. Cause I have that in my soul forever. I go into the ground knowing that there are very few sons or daughters on earth that did more for their parents financially than the reverse. Like, I feel good about that. Makes me feel good. So, anyway, that's why they're saying that, Tommy. They think you're doing it for another this or another that or another zero in the bank account. You know, this. The. Are we gonna do the. Are we supposed to do if we're not building?
- [33:58]
A
Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about. Talk about, like, not wanting to wake up in the morning. Like, what do. Like, I can't imagine disappearing onto a golf course and being like, I'm retired. We got under eight minutes, so I'm gonna speed through here. What's your biggest professional dream at the current moment? Like, I want. I want business.
- [34:15]
B
I want. I want v. Friends to become Pokemon and Marvel. I think I can do it. I'm super deep into it. I'm obsessed with collectibles. I'm obsessed with storytelling and characters. I want everyone to fall in love with stoic slime and empathy. Elephant. And I need to make Dynamic Dinosaur famous. I'm Walt fucking Disney. I'm Vince McMahon. I'm Jim Henson. That is my biggest goal. And then when I build that and take it public or sell it because the jets are available, I want to buy the New York jets and I want to ride them into a Super Bowl.
- [34:48]
A
All right, we're just going to do this speed round here. There's 14 things. Go true or false. And your reasoning, okay, you need to establish a niche before you start posting
- [34:57]
B
false, because you could. First of all, you don't even need a niche. You could be completely potpourri like I am and talk about tons of different things. Next.
- [35:07]
A
If you post too much, people will unfollow.
- [35:10]
B
Not true. No one's seeing everything anymore. It's the interest media era, not the social media era. People will unfollow if you post things that they're not interested in consistently. Plus, if you post more, you'll gain more followers than you'll lose and you'll net out with more. Next.
- [35:27]
A
Taking a posting break helps reset the algorithm.
- [35:31]
B
False posting better content helps reset the algorithm. The algorithm is just people. There is no algorithm. It's people's interest in what you're saying. Taking a break and coming back and doing more bad shit isn't going to help you. Next.
- [35:47]
A
All you need is one big viral moment.
- [35:50]
B
Most people get into levels of depression because they have a viral moment and do nothing with it. It's the reverse. You don't need a big boulder, you need thousands of little pebbles. Consistently. Next.
- [36:02]
A
Only viral content is valuable for bringing in followers.
- [36:07]
B
Yes, there is. I would say. Yes. Ish. I would say posts that earn a million views will get you more followers, but posts that get 1,000 views will also bring in. So does an individual piece of content that gets tons of views bring in more followers than the others? Yes. Is it more likely, like the gym, that you'll more likely get 4, 7, 9, 13, 23 every day? If you do that consistently for 365 days versus worrying and hoping for the lottery ticket, that's the framework you need to bring to this. Next.
- [36:43]
A
Being too broad confuses the algorithm.
- [36:46]
B
Being too what, brother?
- [36:48]
A
Being too broad?
- [36:50]
B
Absolutely not. Like I would say I'm incredibly.
- [36:52]
A
That's kind of what you said earlier.
- [36:53]
B
Yeah, I'm incredibly broad. It's just. Are you making shit that people are interested in? Again, there's no algorithm. The content is shown to a small group of people quickly. Some of your followers, some not. And if people are not engaging with it, staying on it, reading it, clicking it, sharing it, liking it, DMing it, or just sitting on it and consuming it, then it will decline.
- [37:15]
A
Following trends or hot topics matters more than originality.
- [37:19]
B
It's and not boat or both can work like trends. Being contextual, being relevant, being of the moment, phenomenal. But if you know quarter zips are hot, but you say something stupid and not valuable, you're not gonna be able to ride that trend. Both matter. Steak and sizzle. Next.
- [37:36]
A
You should use trending audio on 90% of your reels.
- [37:40]
B
I would say false. I mean, first of all, you should be talking in more of your reels if you're. If you're using only visuals, talking matters. But I think catching an audio trend before it pops is even better. Than riding one that's popped. So I think you gotta again, mix it up. Next.
- [38:03]
A
Long form content, like long YouTube videos,
- [38:05]
B
are dead uncomfortably false. We just sat here for 40 minutes and gave a ton of fucking value. Plus now we have a piece of content that we can chop up into 13 pieces of content. Long form video, I would argue, is the starting point. Long form video is crushing on Netflix, Amazon Prime, YouTube Podcasts. That's an excuse of the week. Next.
- [38:29]
A
Once you monetize, the algorithm punishes you
- [38:34]
B
one more time. The algorithm is just people. If you start trying to sell, sell, sell. Less people are interested in being sold. They want information. So like I wrote years ago in jab, jab, jab, right hook, you gotta give value, give value, give value. But you should have no shame in asking. But if you're asking, asking, asking, asking, you're gonna lose attention.
- [38:54]
A
Let's do one more and close out here. The algorithm favors controversy. Forget the algorithm. People in general. This is how we wrote the question.
- [39:04]
B
Yeah, no, yeah. I think unfortunately, people are addicted to gossip, drama, rubber. You know, all of us are driving on the highway and we have to look at the accident. We rubberneck, unfortunately. But here's a very important thing, everyone. In the short term, we all love candy. But if you eat candy for lunch, breakfast, and dinner, you will eventually throw up. And so I would say a lot of why I'm me is I've consistently stayed protein in a world of candy. And I think in the end, I win. And that's how I see it.
- [39:44]
A
Gary, if somebody were to reach out, I mean, there's a million ways to get ahold of you, but where would you have them contact you where your team could get back to them?
- [39:52]
B
That's very gracious and I do think people can find me, but Gary Vee is a very easy way to find me everywhere. I appreciate you, brother Tommy. I wish you a great, great, healthy, happy year. And I hope we cross paths again.
- [40:04]
A
We will. Have a great day, my man.
- [40:06]
B
Take care, man.
- [40:07]
A
Thank you so much for doing this, everybody.
- [40:09]
B
If you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention and thanks for being part of this journey. See you later.