Interviewer (4:10)

Do you like this business?

Gary Vaynerchuk (4:11)

Do you like your business? Yes, the media business, I love it, but I think it's incredibly interesting. The one thing I dislike about it is I think people are petty. I think the competition in this industry is a little funny. Like I like when we lose pitches because I think we deserve it. And so I think there's too much pettiness in the competition stuff. I also think a lot of people sell things they don't believe in in this industry more than I'm accustomed to. But I don't judge. I'm empathetic. People have mortgages, loans. But I used to think I was smart in the first three, four years that I ran VaynerMedia. But then I just learned that most of the marketing companies are part of holding companies which are publicly traded and they have to make decisions on every 30 days. I got older and understood that most people don't have risk tolerance in their stomach and are willing to jump and go backwards financially. So it started to become more obvious to me why so many people believe in spending money on dumb shit because that's how it works for that org or that company. So I think the two things that stand out that are negatives, because overall I love it. I mean, the people, there's so many great people in the business, but I do think the corporate life, I think corporations miss the mark on how they treat people. I really believe that now. I also don't think people are you, you know, accountable enough. You know, if your company sucks, like spend time on LinkedIn at night and make content and DM people to get out of there, you know, so this fine balance. But no, I think the industry's really rad. I mean, it's an incredibly fun time to be in the industry. Cause everything's changing, right? Like, I think that the industry is flawed in its romance of yesterday. I think it's flawed and it's its obsession with tomorrow. I think it's flawed and its inability to be great at today. There's a reason a lot of startup brands are taking market share. They're outflanking the corporate marketing and corporation industries. But I like it.

Interviewer (6:28)

So do you think about things that we talk about here, like protecting brands? Protecting brand. The brand might be your client. Protecting your brand. Making sure the ads run where they're supposed to run. Protecting consumers, making sure you think about those things?

Gary Vaynerchuk (6:42)

Of course.

Interviewer (6:43)

And what do you think about them?

Gary Vaynerchuk (6:44)

I think about them quite a bit because at the end of the day, when you're in a service business, you need to provide service for the people that you work for. On the flip side, I do try to have thoughtful conversations with clients about what's happening. I think it is not lost on anybody here that many people have made decisions for their corporations based on their own personal beliefs, not on the truth of what's actually happening. And that becomes very complicated. I also am fascinated because I spend more time on consumer only, not corporate. What I mean by that is I challenge some of the lazy beliefs around brand safety of how consumers react when they see ads in platform. I mean, what platform on earth is not pushing fear? You know, social media and mainstream media are a really fun variable. Mainstream media, print, radio, television. Humans decide in the corporation what's going to be on tv. Social media is all humans in an empty vessel sharing what they put out. The algorithms are commercial algorithms. And I'm all for good conspiracy theory. My parents are fucking Soviets, you know. But of course I think about it. But I will say that I've been fascinated over the last 12 years in watching people speak emotionally without being practitioners of anything. We have too many people that live in ivory towers and boardrooms that don't know how the things work. And I think more education on the truth would be good. And then the hypocrisy is ridiculous. Like watching people stand on a soapbox and shit on something and then go get another job and then start stand on another soapbox. Because now they work on the other side of the argument. The hypocrisy has been enjoyable.

Interviewer (8:45)

How'd you get from the wine business to the media business?

Gary Vaynerchuk (8:47)

My father had a local liquor store in Springfield, New Jersey, and I was born in the Soviet Union, so it was a very immigrant kind of son of a merchant thing where I was working child labor in high school. Truly really kind of funny. 12, 13, 14 hours a day when I'm 14, 15, 16. Prior to that, I had been really making a lot of money selling baseball cards as a kid. So I went from making $500, $1,000, $1,200 a weekend in the malls of New Jersey, which, you know, there's some youngsters in here, but like $1,000 when you're 14 in 1988 was like a fucking trillion dollars, you know, and it was awesome and I loved it. And now I get dragged to my dad's store and I'm getting paid two bucks an hour to do like hard labor of like stocking shelves and bagging ice for seven hours a day. And it was a struggle at first, but then I realized people collected wine and that connection of collecting sports cards and comic books to wine was the real thing. That kind of seduced me into what happened next, which was at 16, 17, I learned everything about wine. I really. My dream at 14, 15, 16 was that I thought I had it, that I thought I was a good businessman. And it was very attractive to me to build my parents business for them to a bigger place. And what came natural to me was marketing. It first started with signage in the store. Like the signs that literally said how much a stack of wine would be were crappy. They just do it poorly. And I put a lot of effort into it. And some of my doodling skills that showed up in veefriends later, I learned in the liquor store. And so I first did that and then I launched winelibrary.com in 1997. We were one of the first five E commerce wine businesses in America. And between direct mail, local television, outdoor billboards, building a website, email marketing, Google AdWords, YouTube, I did everything. So when I started VaynerMedia in 2009 to today, 15 years later, there's never been a day where I haven't been the actual practitioner of marketing behavior. Literally backstage right now, I just wrote the copy for the Instagram post that just posted on my account. I think you Know, to me, it's more ridiculous that I was a wine retailer than I went from wine retail to marketing. Because while I was a wine retailer, I was really a marketer for that business who happened to also be a retailer.

Interviewer (11:29)

Right. I heard you say, I've heard you say that if the Internet existed when you were a kid, you wouldn't finish high school.

Gary Vaynerchuk (11:35)

My mom spent favorite joke is she's just so thankful that the Internet didn't come along a little bit earlier because we pretty much. We're pretty curious if I would have graduated middle school, let alone high school. So, yeah, she's pretty thrilled that that happened.

Interviewer (11:50)

So you took it in. You said, I'm going to take this marketing thing.

Gary Vaynerchuk (11:53)

I'm going to build a business.

Interviewer (11:54)

Just tell me a little bit about how it. So you have. You set up shop. I'm going to have an agency.

Gary Vaynerchuk (12:01)

It started backwards. I, at that point already had wine library TV going, and I'd amassed a couple hundred thousand Twitter followers in 2006 when no one had any. And so brands were starting to, in 2007, eight, reach out to me and say, how are you doing this? Why is this happening? And so ESPN sent me an email. Somebody at ESPN Marketing and said, would you come in and consult? And I said, sure. I wasn't even thinking about charging. And the next reply to me saying, sure, let's schedule. The email said, how much do you charge? And I was like, oh, shit. And I was like sitting there, and I was like, okay, what's the most I can come up with to come in for an hour and tell ESPN how to do Twitter and Facebook? And I was like, $5,000. And they replied, no problem. I said, fuck. They just replied too fast. I knew I left money on the table, but I went and did it. I enjoyed it tremendously. I called my brother. My brother was just about to graduate college, and we knew we wanted to do something together. We were thinking about deal of the day, Living Social Groupon. We were thinking fantasy sports. We were very bullish on that. But ultimately I said, you know, I was speaking for myself at the time. I said, long term, I want to build one of the biggest private equity firms in the world, buy businesses, refurbish them. I love being an operator. I said, why don't we start a marketing company to learn? Because at that point, I'd already invested in Facebook and Twitter and Tumblr and I'd really learned. So Silicon Valley, obviously, I grew up in family business, SMB World, but Fortune 500 marketing, this world was incredibly foreign to me. I didn't understand it. So many things they were doing didn't make sense to me. And I said, you know what? Let me start this consultancy. Which is how I thought about it at first. We'll get paid to learn, and then we'll do something else. And that was 15 years ago.

Interviewer (13:52)

Family business is so important to you, clearly.

Gary Vaynerchuk (13:54)

Yes.

Interviewer (13:54)

It's been part of your everything. Talk about. I just listened to the podcast with Howard Ludnick. So tell me, what did you learn? I mean, just tell me.

Gary Vaynerchuk (14:03)

Give me.

Interviewer (14:03)

Give me the quick high level on it, and then tell me what you learned.

Gary Vaynerchuk (14:06)

How did you learn? Howard is the CEO of Cantor Fitzgerald. For some of you in the room that were in this amazing city on 9 11, it was. I was a young. I was 26. Cantor Fitzgerald, ironically, was one of the biggest customers of my wine store. On September 14, I deleted every single Cantor Fitzgerald email from our database because all the people died. For some of you that know the story, he famously never missed work, but it was his son's first day of kindergarten and he took his son to kindergarten. He lost his brother, he lost his best friends, he lost everybody in the company. So it's really intense stuff.

Interviewer (14:44)

So what did you learn about building a business from Hatberg and how, you know, like, it's raw, right?

Gary Vaynerchuk (14:49)

So what did you.

Interviewer (14:49)

If you walk away from it, Because, I mean, I'll tell you what I learned. I mean, and again, this is the sad part of the story. He hired only people he loved. He hired family, friends, and then they were the people who.

Gary Vaynerchuk (15:01)

Yeah, I don't know if I. You know, obviously we just. This was the most intimate I got with his story. It's not that I learned anything since it just happened the other day. And maybe there's things I took. The thing I took away from it has been the currency of my life. I think for the people here who've seen my content or come across me like, I'm not unaware that I'm high energy and got a lot of things going on. And I know how I communicate, which is hyper and excited and passionate. But in real life, I'm incredibly simple. What I took away from it was. I'm very grateful for the way I was parented and the DNA I was given and the luck of the draw of how my life played out. Because by the time I was 15, it was very clear to me that as long as my family was alive, none of this shit mattered. And I've lived that life for the last 30 plus years. And so, you know, that was another affirmation, that leaning into gratitude. I don't think it's lost on anyone. We are incredibly good at complaining and being upset about things we don't control. I think envy and jealousy and fear have had a very good half decade of momentum. And I just wish. I mean, when I think about every person sitting in this room, the context of you sitting in this room at this exact moment in a world where there's 800 million people on earth that don't have access to clean water. You know, maybe there was something really lucky in the fact that I was born in a very shitty place. And maybe there's something in the fact that my mom lost her mom at 5 and my dad lost his dad at 15. And I lived my entire childhood fearing that my parents would die. I don't know what it is, but simplicity and gratitude have been the currency of my life. And what that interview did for me was created another reminder that all of us should be living that way. Because regardless of what the fuck you're worried about professionally right now, I promise you, if you got a frantic phone call from your family and something bad happened, you would not give a fuck.

Interviewer (17:15)

I'm gonna ask you to stand up, please, and I'm gonna ask for questions from the audience. You're always going on behind us, by the way, but please, questions for Gary.

Audience Member (17:23)

My question is this. I read somewhere that. And again, as a parent, I think about this all the time. 30% of content is unfindable. 30% of content is unsafe. What's our job in that equation?

Gary Vaynerchuk (17:38)

I think our job is to build self esteem. Like, you know, I think parenting in the last 30 years from one man's humble point of view, has gotten to a place where we're trying to do too much. You know, like, think about it. If that's true, what are you, fucking Sherlock Holmes and Batman? Like, you're not gonna pull that off. What I believe from my observations, being almost 49 now living life, is that the great anecdote if you want your children to be happy is actual self esteem. Because that allows them to be able to deal with what they come across. I think we've lost our way on that. We've got parents going to school and fighting teachers for our kids. Like, we are in our kids shit. We need to get the fuck out of our kids shit. Like, we have gotten to a place where we built a generation of zoo animals. You know, I mean, we're just like, I think we should let our Kids get into a fucking fist fight. Like, I mean it get dirty. Fucking to go out get dirty. We say it, but then we. Whoa, do we not live it? I have 27 year olds that work for me that have fucking tracking devices on their phone. Cause their parents know where they are. It's like, where the fuck are we? So I think what we can do is not obsess 24, 7 on a losable game, which is we're not gonna find 30% and 30%. What we can do is talk to our kids in real life and start teaching them that they need to be able to be capable. Because do you remember when we grew up and let's say we wanted to accomplish something in our 20s, like buy a home or something. And we would remember borrowing money from parents that's gone. Every 23 year old's like, just give me the fucking money. Like we're in a very, very, very. We have to understand that we are in so many years of overall financial prosperity that we are in a very entitled and very soft reality right now. Which is why we've become so vulnerable to how much fear. Fear has always been sold on us by politics and, and companies and parenting. But we have become very good at falling for it because we're not strong enough, because we're insecure and anxious, because our parents have shown us forever that they'll take care of everything, which indicates to us that we can't do anything.

Audience Member (20:00)

I think we all can agree that you're a very authentic person. And early in your career with the ESPN and everything that you do. Authenticity is a thing.

Gary Vaynerchuk (20:09)

Yes.

Audience Member (20:09)

I think you probably do it better than anyone.

Gary Vaynerchuk (20:11)

That's very nice. I'm sure I'm not, but thank you.

Audience Member (20:13)

You're all in this like brand safety, brand authenticity, or brand responsibility. Like someone comes to you, they're coming to learn how to be authentic. Like, how do you have that conversation? Like, what do you, what do you say to brands from the side that.

Gary Vaynerchuk (20:28)

You know, it's kind of similar to like companies having to make like political statements like brands can't be authentic. Like, brands are not a human. You know, like what brands can do is be more consumer centric. You know what? I think brands are struggling the concept. Like, first of all, one of the things that's a challenge for all of us in marketing is who decides these things. Like, I'm sure many of you have been plenty of frustrated if you've ever worked on this side of the business where you go in and you show them something creative and the person that's leading the brand goes, well, that's not on brand. And you're like, well, what part of it? Like the adjective, the color? Like, what's not on brand? Right? And then, and then, as you know, you finally spend six months doing straight bullshit to try to guess what the person likes, then they get switched off to another brand. And then Harry comes in and goes, this is not on brand. Like, you know, so same with authenticity. Like, what is, you know, what is it? And who's the judge and jury on that? Right? Like is the CMO is the brand. And CMOs are fucking there for eight minutes these days, right? So they're constantly moving too. And so what we, you know, it's less that we talk about authenticity, though. That's lovely. I think what we talk about is like, do you understand that no human being would like this video? You know, like the amount of marketing that is made that literally nobody on earth would ever make if they were like trying to get people to give a shit about it. But because it's the industry we make or when we run media and, you know, those impressions are not getting achieved. Like, this industry is obsessed properly with reach. It's imperative, but we're actually obsessed with potential reach, not actualized reach. Because this industry has done a remarkable job of deciding that common sense has no place in our industry. Like, as if, I mean, do you know that you play, you pay eight times circulation for a print ad? Do you know when you buy print, you pay 8 times Cirque the amount they make in case somebody leaves the magazine on a bus and another person picks it up and gets to page 117 and sees your full page ad. Like, there's, you know, like in a world where like every passenger is looking at their phone when they're in a car, why has outdoor gone up in price, not down? Why has print gone up now not down in programmatic banner digital ads? Like people looking at banner ads on.com's below the fold. Like, we have just become incredibly infatuated with those kind of things. So we focus on consumer centric, which then inherently gets you a little more authentic if you don't take yourself so seriously. If you don't put like your logo or your tagline in every social media post. If you make social. Social media posts that people actually want to watch or a TV commercial that people would. A video people would want to watch, not what we all now deem as a commercial. And so I think the authenticity comes from an obsession of consumer centricality the reason VaynerMedia has built into a 2,500 person global one of the largest independent is when people ask me, how did you do that? It's 100%. We care about what consumers are doing. We we've lost so much money, so much. We could be so much. I'm a good businessman. We could be much bigger if we sold shit that everybody else sells. But we don't do it. Cause we don't believe it's gonna help the business. And I think being 100% consumer centric is a wonderful way for me to end this. It would be good for you in your side hustle, in your career, for your own career if you went literally left here today and posted on LinkedIn your current thoughts thoughts on 2025 marketing that you actually believe.