Why the Smartest Brands Are Thinking Like Hospitality Companies in 2025

Summary

Summary of “Why the Smartest Brands Are Thinking Like Hospitality Companies in 2025” The GaryVee Audio Experience Hosted by Gary Vaynerchuk

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1. Introduction

In this episode of The GaryVee Audio Experience, Gary Vaynerchuk engages in an insightful conversation with David Rodolitz and Josh Capon from the BCR Group. They delve into the evolving landscape of the hospitality industry, exploring how innovative brands are integrating technology, particularly NFTs, AI, and blockchain, to redefine customer experiences and build robust brands.

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2. Founding Story of VCR Group

[08:38] David Rodolitz shares the inception of VCR Group, highlighting the strong personal and professional relationships that led to its creation. The partnership between Gary, David, and Josh was cemented during the COVID-19 pandemic, a period that allowed them to brainstorm and strategize extensively.

Josh Capon:

“We live near each other. We were talking about doing a lot of business together, and that was how VCR started. Vaynerchuk, Capon, Rodolitz. It’s simply our initials.”

[10:11] Gary adds, emphasizing his commitment and the collaborative spirit that drives the group:

“When Gary commits to something, he commits. [...] I felt like I could contribute a little bit more than just cash and the occasional phone call.”

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3. Concept and Expansion of Restaurants

[12:43] Josh outlines the rapid expansion of VCR Group, detailing their diverse portfolio which includes:

• Ito New York: A joint venture with Masa Ito and Kevin Kim.
• Little Maven: A neighborhood restaurant focusing on community engagement.
• Fly Fish Club: A flagship members-only club incorporating blockchain and NFTs.
• Capons Burgers: Located at the Fontainebleau Hotel in Las Vegas.
• Bar Ito: A hand roll concept mirroring the quality of Ito but with more accessibility.
• Capons Chop House: Upcoming collaboration with Simon Properties.

David Rodolitz:

“I love that you guys came up with VCR Group during COVID because that was when everyone was terrified of hospitality...”

The team emphasizes a balance between high-end destination venues and neighborhood-friendly establishments, fostering a diverse yet coherent brand presence across multiple locations.

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4. Integration of Technology: NFTs, AI, and Blockchain

[01:34 - 03:14] The discussion highlights the innovative use of NFTs in the Fly Fish Club, which allows members to own their participation through digital assets. Gary reflects on the volatility of the NFT market:

“I didn't anticipate the ups and downs. And now the rebirth. Right. Like, now crypto and NFTs are heading up. So it's been a much more aggressive roller coaster.”

[48:30 - 53:53] The conversation shifts to the future impact of AI and blockchain on the restaurant industry. Gary predicts significant long-term changes:

“Long term, sure. I mean, long term it’s gonna affect everything.”

Josh adds that while high-touch, personalized experiences will remain human-led, operational efficiencies can be enhanced through technology, allowing staff to focus more on guest interactions rather than mundane tasks.

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5. Handling Negative Reviews

[39:44 - 44:39] The trio addresses the critical issue of managing negative feedback. Their approach centers on empathy, accountability, and constructive action:

Josh Capon:

“We take the high road every single way. [...] I'll be very apologetic. I'll personally call anybody. I'll write them an apologetic email myself.”

Gary Vaynerchuk:

“We will never put our head in the sand. We'll never, never blame them. [...] Empathy is a great way to react. Accountability second.”

They emphasize treating each review individually to discern whether it represents a one-off issue or a systemic problem, ensuring continuous improvement and maintaining customer trust.

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6. The Future of Members Clubs and Hospitality

[25:00 - 31:07] The discussion explores the burgeoning model of members-only clubs as a sustainable and innovative approach within the hospitality sector. David forecasts:

“I really do believe that members clubs are the next, institutionalizing hospitality asset class in the same way hotels.”

Gary Vaynerchuk:

“I believe private clubs in New York will lead to more people having more dinner parties at their home. [...] It’s the ultimate asset.”

Josh envisions a future where members enjoy curated, exclusive experiences that blend dining, entertainment, and social interactions seamlessly, creating a loyal and engaged community.

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7. Impact of AI on Restaurants

[47:53 - 52:18] The conversation delves deeper into AI’s role, with Gary expressing both optimism and caution:

“Robots will be better cooks than humans. [...] What does that mean? For example, we as a society, the celebrity chef...”

David and Josh acknowledge that while AI can enhance operational efficiencies, the essence of hospitality—personalized service and authentic experiences—remains inherently human. They foresee AI complementing rather than replacing human roles, especially in high-touch environments.

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8. Advice for Aspiring Hospitality Entrepreneurs

[56:30 - 58:43] The episode concludes with valuable advice for those looking to enter the hospitality industry:

Josh Capon:

“Create concepts that you are excited about. [...] I selfishly create concepts that I want to be at so I don’t have to spend money on other people’s concepts.”

Gary Vaynerchuk:

“Unless you love it, you're gonna quit or lose. [...] If that does not exist, that is why so many talented business people have lost in the restaurant game, because they don't have that element.”

They stress the importance of passion, authenticity, and a customer-centric approach as foundational elements for enduring success in hospitality.

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9. Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Gary, David, and Josh provide a comprehensive overview of how forward-thinking brands are leveraging technology and innovative business models to thrive in the competitive hospitality landscape. They underscore the significance of building strong, experience-driven brands, maintaining high standards of service, and adapting to technological advancements to create memorable and sustainable customer experiences.

Final Takeaway: To succeed in the hospitality industry, it's imperative to blend passion with strategic innovation, prioritize customer experiences, and remain adaptable to emerging technologies. By doing so, brands can establish loyal communities and navigate the challenges of a dynamic market effectively.

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Notable Quotes:

• Gary Vaynerchuk [02:22]:
  “I didn’t anticipate the ups and downs. And now the rebirth. Right. Like, now crypto and NFTs are heading up. So it’s been a much more aggressive roller coaster.”

• Josh Capon [56:58]:
  “Create concepts that you are excited about. [...] I selfishly create concepts that I want to be at so I don’t have to spend money on other people’s concepts.”

• Gary Vaynerchuk [58:13]:
  “Unless you love it, you're gonna quit or lose. [...] If that does not exist, that is why so many talented business people have lost in the restaurant game, because they don't have that element.”

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This detailed summary captures the essence of the podcast episode, providing listeners with a clear understanding of the key discussions and insights shared by Gary Vaynerchuk, David Rodolitz, and Josh Capon on the intersection of hospitality and modern technology.

Transcript

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Podcast nation. How are you? My team just texted me and said that they wanted me to do an intro for today's podcast since it's pretty unique. It's a real fun interview we did with Stanza around the hospitality industry restaurant world. I did with my partner David Rodolitz from the BCR Group. They put on text that I could touch on things that I touched in the interview on, like handling reviews and feedbacks from professional industries, the future role of tech and AI and blockchain and how it plays out in hospitality. Building brand through experience, not just product. And four, about how VCR influencing fly fish and how it's going and blah blah, blah. I just did it because I wanted to fulfill them. But I also wanted to say hi and also say it would mean a lot to me if you left a review on Spotify or Apple. We're focused on that more and it would mean a lot to me. And on some real talk, if you really are in the hospitality industry, curious about it or operations, small business world, this podcast is about to blow you away. Enjoy. See you soon.

[David Rodolitz]

Ladies and gentlemen, Gary Vee. David Rodolitz. Thanks for having me in your office in New York. Really appreciate it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, thanks for visiting.

[Josh Capon]

We're excited.

[David Rodolitz]

So actually, while I was preparing for this interview, I was doing a bit of LinkedIn stalking and I saw that David went to fashion school in Paris.

[Josh Capon]

Wrong, David.

[David Rodolitz]

Are you sure?

[Josh Capon]

I'm pretty positive.

[David Rodolitz]

Okay. Okay.

[Josh Capon]

Well, that's business school, University of Maryland.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's the same as fashion.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah, it's the same as fashion school.

[Josh Capon]

Okay.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Okay. But the way you dress made her think that. So that's.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah, not in like the fashion marketing. My fish club. It's very fashion scene tracks.

[Josh Capon]

It's just not me.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah. So fly fish club. How has the story of the business turned out differently from when you want. From when you launched it? I mean, you guys launched with NFTs.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, I. I mean, I think probably a lot less change than I even think the form of that question, meaning we are still a restaurant that if somebody is educated enough on NFTs, they can go out and buy an NFT and become a member of the club. You know, I think what probably is different is if you told me on February 10, 2025, would, would the brand of NFTs have gone through what they've had the last three years? That was surprising. I don't think I anticipated the last administration to be so anti crypto.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I also didn't anticipate as the guy who brought like the NFT and crypto energy to our restaurant group. Because the group existed before the NFT restaurant. I don't think that the highs were gonna get that high. You know, I grew up in early Internet 1.0.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So I saw pets.com and all those stocks that went to zero. I. It's funny when we look like. There was a point where I started making videos saying that 99% of NFTs were going to zero because I started to see the same behaviors that I saw in Internet 1.0 where people were speculating and things of that nature. So I don't think that I anticipated the ups and downs. And now the rebirth. Right. Like, now crypto and NFTs are heading up. So it's been a much more aggressive roller coaster.

[David Rodolitz]

Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Than the day we announced. Like, hey, do this. Honestly, other than that, I'm just very grateful that David, Josh, you know, our entire team, Connor, Tony, I would say they've executed on my personal. I'll let David speak for himself. They've executed on my hopes and dreams, which was being in an NFT restaurant is like having a website. When I was growing up. You're too young for this. When I was growing up, when you had a website, that was like another thing. And I kept saying, no, no, no, my dad still has a liquor store, but we have a website. It was such new technology that people would name it something different, similar to, like when you were a kid, like, not everyone had a social media account. And if you had one, that was like a thing. Oh, you have a. Now. No, eighth grader doesn't think. People are not going to have. And so NFTs, like, are going to be part of society. We were always building and trying to build and are now in the process of building one of the most meaningful private clubs in New York City that could have failed miserably with or without an nft. And so it's turned out, actually, I'm gonna be very transparent in this podcast. I think the guys and gals on that team have done a better job than I had hoped.

[Josh Capon]

Says that every day to me.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like, you don't have the confidence. No, I mean, I didn't have the confidence. Of course I had the confidence. I put my money where my mouth is with you. I. The decor came out better than I dreamed in my head with who knows what I was thinking. The food I knew we were gonna crush on. But you can't. I mean, there's the greatest restaurateurs of all time. Can't can't, cannot predict 100% success every time they open something new. You know this.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like there's just too many variants.

[Josh Capon]

Yeah. I think just for me, a little bit of a full circle moment. And where Gary was going with this is that when we came out with it, it was always a culinary driven members club. It was always a members club that was focused on food in New York City with different experiences and a good environment and a nice ambiance. We did exactly that when we came out with it. It was around this time that Gary got very excited with blockchain NFTs and what that could do and VCR group. A part of the filters of our company was to leverage technology, leverage media, and do things in a little bit more of an innovative way. The timing was great. He got very excited. I learned quick. And we started as a blockchain members club, meaning the only way to play was you had to buy an nft and that created your ability to own your membership. Since then, we still have that. We also now have traditional memberships with which mimic the typical framework that most people know of members clubs. And we have both going on under one roof. But the core is still the core members club. Food first, hospitality first, treat people well. And it's. I think as Gary was saying, it's. It's been exciting. It's been what we wanted or then some.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And as a group, if I may, it was really fun to go through the journey because we knew we had to find a good spot for it. So that had its own elements. Don't forget, it was right after Covid, there was a lot going on with real estate. We, during that time, what was also not potentially part of the roadmap, we always knew we would have multiple brands. I'm sure I can again, I'm going to speak for myself at the time, you know, the. This venture, a fly Fish club, is such a big venture out the gate for a new restaurant group. If you look at all the places that are popping up in New York, they're all people that have had their groups around much longer.

[David Rodolitz]

Right, right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So, you know what also happened on this journey that was slightly different was we crushed the little Maven concept, which I think I would have thought would have been after Fly Fish, not before. So fly, you know, little Maven popped. That opportunity popped up as fly fish was probably. It was perfect. Like Maven came right when we could do it and not screw up Fly Fish. I feel if it came four months earlier or even two months later or too Late, we would have not done that. To me, that's also been interesting because we got to execute that. And for me, it feels very. I feel very full as a restaurateur to have both neighborhood, you know, brands and to have, you know, destination people fly from around the country to go to Fly Fish Club. Ito, too, and Ito more specifically. And meanwhile, we've crushed Maven as a neighborhood restaurant in an actual box that has struggled to have a winner in it, which I take enormous amount of pride in, which I think is really cool. If you're a nerd about actually building a group, if you're capable of winning in spaces that have historically not won with good operators.

[David Rodolitz]

Totally.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You've got something brewing.

[David Rodolitz]

Totally. Yeah. I think restaurants are a huge part of place making and just. Yeah. And creating a really great environment. But I want to go back to the founding story. So VCR Group, the idea, it's kind of new. It's 2020. 2021.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Right.

[David Rodolitz]

Okay, so tell me the founding story of that.

[Josh Capon]

Yeah, I mean, it's pretty simple. Gary and I have been close for a long time. In 2014, he invested in my previous group. So we had a little bit of, like, you know, business activity. Our social words, worlds, very connected. He bought my best friend's company in 2017. We're all spending more time together. And over Covid, Gary. The benefit to me of COVID was that this guy never has any time. And we found ourselves spending more time together drinking bottles of wine in his apartment, talking about kind of a. A 2.0 version of the hospitality industry on the. On the backside of COVID and got excited about that idea. When Gary commits to something, he commits. He said he was in. And then kind of at the last moment. There is also a great celebrity chef named Josh Capon.

[David Rodolitz]

Right.

[Josh Capon]

And brought him into the fold. We live near each other. We were talking about doing a lot of business together, and that was how VCR started. Vaynerchuk, Capon, Rodolitz. It's simply our initials. And it was to create a modern hospitality company rooted in humility, treat people really well, do projects we're passionate about, have a lot of fun together. And myself, Josh, we came from previous groups and just wanted to do things, you know, in a new way. And Gary was, you know, the. You know, the third part to it. But he had hospitality in his blood through all the other ventures he's done and kind of powered me up. And here we are.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, I think to add color to that, what David was referencing earlier, the. You Know, I. I was definitely interested in supporting him in starting his own group and wanted to be a meaningful investor. I have plenty of things that are on my plate when Josh became an addition, because David and Josh lived in the same general area in New Jersey and like, got to spend more time together. Cause obviously you guys knew each other, of course, but during that time, you guys got closer.

[Josh Capon]

A lot, a lot closer.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

They got a lot closer. And when he got involved, and then in general, I feel like Covid, by slowing me down, allowed me to realize how much more creativity and doing. I actually wanted to do more stuff, which would seem counterintuitive, but what was happening behind the scenes was my infrastructure of my business world was getting much bigger. I was grooming more talent. I could rely on people. Fly Fish Club, Hannah park and Nick Dio and Tyler Schmidt. I mean, there's other people that have added the elements of their energy to where we are today. Those were things I didn't have in prior years. So I felt like I had broader shoulders. And so what ended up really happening was, you know, we talked about a lot of different stuff. There was a lot of conversations. There were so many different versions. I mean, because I know this. Yeah. I was just about to say, literally from qsr, like low end QSR all the way to where we are now to cpg. I mean, we were talking real entrepreneur stuff. Ghost Kitchen. We were talking a lot. It was very fun, very creative. And what I didn't anticipate, which I'm so happy happened, was even through all those discussions, I still thought I would be more behind the scenes investor. And I'm much more out in front on the VCR group as a partner than I anticipated. And that speaks to not only how I believed in Josh, but the capon variable was interesting because I knew both of them separately and I thought they would be a really great team. And I felt like I could contribute a little bit more than just cash and the occasional phone call. And so here we are.

[David Rodolitz]

And so since you guys have started, you've opened seven, eight.

[Josh Capon]

We've got seven concepts, intellectual properties. We have Ito in New York, which is a joint venture with Masa Ito and Kevin Kim. Generally, VCR Group will predominantly do the culinary in all of our projects. This was a opportunistic. Masa and I were very close. He was operating in Miami. He pre built Ito, but it wasn't finished. It was put on a shelf. And it was just an interesting opportunity to kind of come in as partner. Because of COVID Yeah, they Run the culinary. They run the business. We're more, you know, back office and growth and support where they need help. So outside of Ito, we generally run the culinary in all of our projects because we're operators. They run the culinary there and the culture as well. So Ito Little Maven Fly Fish Club is our New York footprint. We have a pop up at the US Open tennis tournament called Fly Fish, which is a casual seafood concept, which ironically was a part of the name game for Fly Fish Club, which happened a little bit later. And then in Las Vegas, we have our second Ito location on the top of the Fontainebleau Hotel.

[David Rodolitz]

Right.

[Josh Capon]

We have Capons burgers first location at the Fontainebleau Hotel. And then we have a sister concept to Ito called Bar Ito, which is a hand roll concept, same quality fish as Ito packaged more accessibly. We believe there's a lot of growth and scalability in both that and Cape Hans burgers. And then later on this year in 2025, we'll be opening up Capon's Chop House with Simon Properties, one of the largest REITs in the country, and a second K Pons Burgers location in the next 16 to 18 months.

[David Rodolitz]

Okay, so you guys are really busy.

[Josh Capon]

We're busy.

[David Rodolitz]

I love that you guys came up with VCR group during COVID because that was when everyone was terrified of hospitality.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Y.

[David Rodolitz]

Because it completely. I think it was probably one of the most impacted, if not the most impacted retail business during that time. But it's also the time to think about how you can take risks and how you can innovate.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And so there was no version of us staying in our homes forever, right? Yeah, and I think that's exactly right. I mean, I think it's not lost on anyone that's really looking at finances and economics and business. Like, a lot of the times to double down on offense is when everyone's on defense.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah, totally.

[Josh Capon]

People were gonna be longing to get back together with people. I mean, it wasn't gonna go out of vogue.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah, totally.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But that being said, real talk, like Manhattan, you know, the food scene has changed forever. I mean, the suburb action, like, I would say that the Monday Friday thing is real.

[Josh Capon]

Yeah. It's consolidated to one day of business.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. It's forever changing.

[Josh Capon]

It's a midtown.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So, like, some of the people that, like, to the credit of the people that were concerned about what behaviors were getting locked in and what was gonna change in Covid, things changed and like. But what's great about being an entrepreneur or an operator is you've Got to adjust to the reality of what you're dealing with. And I think, you know, for anybody who's listening that is in the business, I have so much respect for them. Long hours, low margins, like you have to be in this industry, you have to really love it.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah, totally. There's so many other ways to make money 100% and I'm gonna get back to that. But I wanted to know in the past few years, opening all these restaurants, what are some mistakes that you've learned?

[Josh Capon]

God, I would, I'd call it more of a painful reality than mistakes. Because our journey, honestly, things are going well and we've got a strong team and we work really hard. So I feel good about what we're doing. I would say some painful realities along the way. We, we started this new group. We're very, honestly, we're very top heavy. I mean, it was a little bit scary. Like we came from different groups. We also have another partner named Connor Hanlon that came from another top group. So some, A lot of ammunition formed together. We had a lot of pressure on ourselves. Obviously. Gary's like, all right, what are we all doing? Like, you know, there's a lot of big names here and it takes time to build a pipeline and to like get projects. You gotta do the leases, you got to do construction, you got to come up with concepts, you got to create, you know, the demand for people to want to be there. There's a lot of layers to opening up a restaurant concept. So a painful reality was that we had nothing. We were working behind the scenes feverishly every single day. And then all of a sudden we opened up five properties in 11 months time. And Gary's like, this is, you know, like respectfully making sure that we were okay. But there was a lot going on. Certain projects got accelerated, certain projects slowed down. And we opened up three projects at the Fountain Blue and we opened up Little Maven, all within a three week period. And then, you know, really then went into Fly Fish development, taking over the space from when the contractor had it ready for us and then moving into pre opening. So it was just, it was a lot trying to build teams, build infrastructure while trying to get the culture right with a lot of new people. That there really was no culture besides what we wanted the culture to be. To be.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It was a religion in our mind.

[Josh Capon]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know, and then I think, you.

[Josh Capon]

Know, Gary alluded to this, but super proud of launching Fly Fish as the blockchain element that it was. And then there was, you know, iterating the concept or making another ability for people to experience it. Just as, you know, the world around us was changing a little bit and then making sure that enough people could enjoy the experiences we were creating. We just felt like we needed a couple parallel paths for people to get entry to it. So just like coming up with that, all of the thought that went behind it, the different marketing comms, the journey, the tech stack, it was. And we had a very loyal community. And Gary and I, specifically Gary and I, because we were on the front of it, knew what we were doing and felt very comfortable with what we were doing. So it was for our community. But it didn't change that. There was a lot of hair to it. It was a tricky time and we had to be very thoughtful and caring about kind of bringing people through that journey with us.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I would say also it was funny, you could see in the first couple seconds of how David's answering it. Cause we're young and. Cause it's going well. You know, it's a very young company and we're off to a good start. Like, I mean we could be doing this interview teaching people how to waste tens of millions of dollars in a launch and be out of business. I said to them all the time, he knows this like Fly Fish Club was a big swing.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And again, unlike the great people at major food groups or Scott, we literally were a brand new group opening up a massive spot.

[David Rodolitz]

Like, how much was. Was the. Was the initial investment total for. For Fly Fish? Like how much did you guys.

[Josh Capon]

I mean, eight figures plus.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah, I mean it was massive. Yeah, massive.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like, and things like that. If they don't go, it's dead fast.

[David Rodolitz]

There's an I especially New York.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I mean, yeah, there's an iconic club in midtown from like one of the best groups in the world. And this was one that wasn't going to hit. Like I just that thought every night. And what was tough for me is I'm used to driving the car, right. Most of my business. I am the actual core operator. David is the core operator of VCR group. So, you know, I was, you know, I think to answer your question, if I'm just jumping on it, it's what we don't see right now. We don't have the obvious big. Like so much has gone well. There's micro learnings left and right, like, oh, like, you know, measure twice, cut once. There's million little things that I think the audience here knows we don't have the big one yet. I mean the one that's obvious to me and it was your reaction on wow is like, you know, like these are all young brands and now we're going to open up Capon Steakhouse too. Like they know like what I bring up in our meetings is like, you know, and you saw right before we started here, you know, please don't share this part. Like we're talking about like another thing right before. Like, like I'm like, you know, I'm going to stop but I think what happens and I'm also one that doesn't stop. But I can afford and I have had many losses. When you don't stop, you don't bat a thousand. When you're a young company, if you miss two in a row, it could put substantial financial strain in a very low margin business.

[David Rodolitz]

Yes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So I love it.

[Josh Capon]

It sounds aggressive. I actually think it's less aggressive than, than the contrary. I think the growth is what allows us to get talented people around us. I think the growth, the opportunities allow us to have more diversification. I think it allows us to actually create more of a group. It allows us to create more demand. It allows us to keep the community engaged because we become more of a lifestyle concierge brand and we're helping them at our other products. All day long. We're taking our people from one restaurant to another to Las Vegas. We're setting up their rooms. There actually is demand creation happening here.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Even though it's becoming loyal. The thing you just did in Miami, 100%.

[Josh Capon]

So what he's alluding to is a big thing that we're thinking about at Fly Fish Club and obviously a lot keeps going back to that a because it's relevant. It's a massive project for the size of our small company and we've got a lot of excitement for hopefully to do more in the future. What we want to do with our members club is create an enormous amount of value for our members. For every time they think that this is it, we're going to surprise and delight and come over the top and give them something that they never expected. So what Gary was just kind of nodding to is our members can go to this gorgeous place in Miami called Harbor Club, okay. And they could get to enjoy another members club, okay. For no additional, you know, cost or compensation. It's a good perk and it's a great perk. It's an additional benefit. We don't know if that will be around for years or it's right now. It's not a promise when you buy the membership from us it's not like it's a two for one deal, but it's a, hey, we respect what this guy James is doing. The product is fantastic. We have a lot of our community that's down there. Our seasons are kind of slotting perfectly that our peak time is not their peak time and vice versa. So we're like, we have a lot of well traveled people. They're going down to Miami. Let's give them more value, let's make them more happy. And now they could go there and go to Harbor Club and enjoy a beautiful experience that we trust James and their team will operate on because that's most important for our reputation and the Fly Fish community. And people that are around us just get more and more things that they weren't promised or expected and our community can expect more of those things to continue to happen.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah, I think that's a great idea. I mean, Reciprocal Clubs is like, it's a perk that I think a lot of brands don't fully leverage or explore. And for, you know, for people in New York, like everyone's spending 183 days out of the year in Miami or more, if you know what I mean. Probably your target members are definitely, least probably on that trip or to your.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Point, if they're not actually living in Miami and taxing, they're definitely flying to San Francisco, Vegas, Louisiana, London. Like that is. You know, once you start getting into certain financial thresholds, your behaviors are different.

[David Rodolitz]

Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You don't eat at home 300 days a year. Totally 350 days a year.

[Josh Capon]

I also think for some reason, and hopefully we're a part of change and it's been like the member club life has been very kind of fragmented and competitive and why can't it be more collaborative? And. And that's how we're approaching it.

[David Rodolitz]

Okay.

[Josh Capon]

There's great people doing great things. Everybody offers something different.

[David Rodolitz]

Okay.

[Josh Capon]

You know, as Gary was saying before, there's awesome members clubs in New York and we go there and we know the other owners and they're fantastic and we're just kind of focused on what we're doing.

[David Rodolitz]

Okay.

[Josh Capon]

And why can't you help one another and be more collaborative? So that that was a little bit behind the Carver Club.

[David Rodolitz]

Okay, I want to dig in to that bit. So Fly Fish Club has been open for about six months now, right?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

About five months, yeah.

[David Rodolitz]

Five, six months. What have you learned about the members club business? Because something that I am evangelizing on my platform is I really do believe that members clubs are the Next, institutionalizing hospitality asset class in the same way hotels.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes. And by the way, you know this because you're smart enough to know that's real life in London. Like, it's real.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like I always say, when I'm very hot right now on live social shopping, like the QVC application and everyone's like, gary, what about. And I'm like, guys, gals, this has been happening in China for fucking seven years. Like, I'm not guessing here. If this class had never existed in the history of the world, it'd be like a fun debate. But humans are humans. Yes, there's differences in London and New York, but like anyone to like, listen, we hope we're around for a very, very long time, but if, God forbid, we weren't members clubs in New York are now going to be around, quote unquote, in perpetuity. Mean when VR comes and we live in pods in warm weather places. But I could not agree with you more.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Now how much can a market absorb? Like, how many can there be here with rents? Like, once rents got high, clubs changed in the 70s and 80s, it didn't matter how much money you had, you couldn't get into every club.

[David Rodolitz]

Right? Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

If you have enough money in New York right now, you can get absolutely everywhere and be winning everywhere. So things change. I don't know if it's 20 meaningful clubs in Manhattan. I don't know if it's seven. I myself and many of my brightest friends, I think a lot of people are thinking about them from a neighborhood framework. Like if you live in the Upper east side.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah, there's maxims or maxims.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know, I think there's some truth to that. I think the cooler the or and or the more you just like to be out and about. So, like, honestly, ironically, I'm homebodyish, so I probably would be someone if I wasn't in this business living my normal life would probably go more regional than schlepping downtown, uptown, left, right across the park. It's gonna be super fun to see what it looks like in seven years, but it will absolutely, to your point, be one of the classics in the game.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah, totally. I think what we're seeing right now is after Covid, some members clubs, like Sohouse, for example, did still charge membership fees. And so a lot of restaurant brands were like, oh, look at those members clubs. They're still making some kind of revenue even during this time when everything's closed. We should do that. They think of it as like recurring revenue, but it's just like, oh, it's a restaurant. Let's slap on a membership fee and call it a day.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I would also say, if I may, in business, from one man's humble point of view, when someone really goes for it and it works, it also has a huge impact. Scott and Zero Bond deserve outrageous historical credit because had that been a massive flop, I don't think people would've been rushing to get theirs popped up. Zero Bonds massive. That there'd be no confusions success. Scott, who he is as a dude, like the best, like that also will have its place in the history books of why it happened here. Because soho to your point. But that's different, right? Like that's extremely. Like that gets into co working space hotels. Correct. It's just different. Zero Bond, that level of success and everybody like people are people. Meaning like when you see something works, you think about how big the addressable market is. And then Cipriani opens and it works. We are now open and it's working. ZZ's open and we're like, there's actually like Che Margot crazy. There's so many great ones, you know, there's so many. Actually there's only a few that aren't working right now. I expect a lot more not to work. I expect more to come along and work and maybe hurt the ones that are working. It'll just become normal.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah, that. Yeah, totally.

[Josh Capon]

I also think, you know, it's working because it's beneficial to everybody in the system if it's done well. So I think, you know, you brought up like, why is this accelerating right now? And what's, what's the value proposition to everybody, I think from the consumer standpoint and why join a members club? Like a lot of people are just more discerning and thoughtful around their experiences now. They want more, they want to go in, they want to get a certain table. They like a lot of different experiences. Experiences. It's also efficient. You could in one night go to a restaurant. You could listen to live music. We had comedy night for the first time, you know, last week. We're gonna have a week.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, that's where we. I'm sorry to interrupt. You are. We also made a bet on a stage as a throwback that's a little like that. Those will become the variables. Our bet on our lounge, which is super sexy, but then also has a stage to do what David's talking about, that's a different variable than others. And I think everyone will start to come up with their points of differentiation.

[Josh Capon]

Yeah, like My wife and I wouldn't go out to a nightclub anymore. It's just not what we do. We have two kids. But you could go to Flyers Club or go to these other members clubs.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I feel like you would.

[Josh Capon]

I mean, I. I would.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I know you're doing a politically correct thing, but, like, you get to a.

[Josh Capon]

Certain point and, like, you wouldn't just specifically, your intent wouldn't be to go out clubbing on a night unless you're, like, away with friends on vacation or whatnot. Now, you could go to dinner, then you could go downstairs and enjoy, have a cocktail, have a beautiful bottle of wine, and you could get some of that enjoyment without committing to something that just, like, is a little bit outside of your comfort zone.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

On the flip side, I'm sorry to interrupt. Like, some of the private clubs right now are some of the hottest club life energy in the city, right?

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like, which is awesome. Like, to me, like, that's what's fun about this whole thing. It's actually similar to NFTs. Everyone's like, NFTs are dead. I'm like, no, certain NFTs are dead.

[David Rodolitz]

Right?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like, you know, they're like, veefriend sold a $15,000 NFT this morning. Like. Like, I don't think people think that's happening.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah, I definitely didn't.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Right. So there you go. Right. So there you go. So same thing will happen here. Like, just open. Like, there are many people right now opening private clubs. At Super Bowl, I had somebody come up to me, a famous athlete is gonna open one in Chicago. Their person was like, hey, can you speak to this? I'm like, of course. The amount of private clubs that are about to be opened up in next 48 months in New York is gonna be insane in New York and everywhere else. Most will fail. Just like restaurants, like wine stores, like websites, like apps, like people trying to become an influencer. And like, NFT projects, the macro is locked in and it will then require these things. Right. Margot's got that night. We actually. One of the most interesting things I think we did. And I actually, for everyone who's listening, if you're thinking about opening a club, I'm gonna push you on this one. Don't forget that you're a restaurant.

[Josh Capon]

Yep.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think I know for sure why we're winning, because people are very much hitting me up, including people that are like, own other clubs and being like, you fuckers are winning because your food's incredible.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah. And I'm like, has to be good. The service has to be amazing.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I really think people forget that. I'm shocked how much people are forgetting that.

[Josh Capon]

I think also from the operator standpoint, what. What drew us to it and what we're seeing is a few things. First off, like, the culinary team, Gary's just talking about the food. Like, it gives you an ability to be very creative. We have three or four different outlets under one roof. It allows you to, like, play with a lot of different environments, experiences. We've got a sushi concept. We have the restaurant. We've got a tamaki concept. Like, the team could. Could be passionate, they could be trying new things, and it keeps everybody engaged, and that's good for culture. I think second is it is a restaurant, but it's a different form of a restaurant because you have the membership model.

[David Rodolitz]

Right.

[Josh Capon]

And it would be naive to say that that's not a big part of why there is this growth in that market. The. The restaurant industry margins, at least in New York, it's no surprise, are very tight. Occupancy is very high, labor is very high, and insurance is very higher. Fixed costs, and they're not going anywhere.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Inflation on product is going to outpace the customer's ability to pay for it.

[David Rodolitz]

Totally.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I mean, every day when blueberries are 130 fucking dollars, you can't charge 150.

[Josh Capon]

It's endless. So the membership model, if you do it well and you take that massive risk that Gary was talking about, and you create the demand, which is a lot of ifs and a lot of big moves that you have to make to even be in this, you know, great position. But if you do all of that and then you're able to generally, you know, cover a lot of your expenses from food and beverage like you would normally in a regular restaurant.

[David Rodolitz]

Right.

[Josh Capon]

You now have this whole other revenue stream.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

David. That's actually why. And I know how nerding out on this you're doing.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Which is really cool, by the way. Some flowers to you, like. No, it's really, it's. It's good. I love when things like this pop up. The byproducts of this is why the food thing matters. If you look at the history of restaurants and nightlife, when food is a variable, forget about, like, just a bar, club, whatever, you are much more likely to be around for 25 years when the food is right.

[David Rodolitz]

Totally.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Because when you're relying on being hot, you're in deep shit.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like, the nature of hot for that audience is they're already yearning for the next.

[David Rodolitz]

Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Capon]

So an extra revenue stream. It's pretty, you know, if you do it well, you have an extra revenue stream which is attractive and allows you to then invest back into the guest experience.

[David Rodolitz]

Right. Well, I was in London recently. I went to uni there. So I have a lot of friends there and came of age going to all those clubs in Mayfair. One of my good friends who grew up there was telling me, you know, I like going to my same places every week. I like walking in and everyone knowing who I am, who, who I went on a date with last week, or who my mother is. And I like knowing that they know how I like my steak cooked. Or, you know, they just, they kind of. They make you feel seen in a way. And it's an interesting concept in New York where it's so populated and the competition is so extreme. So you have to be at the top of your game with food service, programming, decor. Like who's. Who's going to your club. You have to be the top, the top of the top. Because there's no room for mediocrity. So it'll be interesting to see like how that originally British social culture thing of like going to the same places every week plays out in a place like New York.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think that it's an and game. Here's what I mean by that. I think there is an in between of your home and restaurants. And I think that's what this is. And. And by the way we see it in the suburbs. Country clubs in the suburbs are situated in between a restaurant and your actual living room. It's the other cozy place. People like comfort like people like safe.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah. And they like consistency too. That's the thing.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And to your point, and by the way, I love other people. And this is gonna hit for a lot of New Yorkers. They like speed. And when I say speed, I actually mean not having to say three times a night. The two or three nuances to the way I like to eat food. Those six minutes subconsciously are valuable to me. And I mean it. I know it sounds. And I know that you two are laughing and I'm sure a lot of people laughing and listening. I would tell you I need people to really think about this. You would be stunned how many things you do for a couple more minutes here and there. Time is the ultimate asset. Totally. All of you are doing silly things like paying more for gas cause it's on this side than the other side. Cause you don't have to loop around the U turn or like going to the Same coffee shop, even though there's four epic ones. Because they do know it's not almond milk, it's skim milk. I think comfort. I think what your friend is explaining to you will happen in New York as well for some different reasons. I think Americans, especially in New York, do value time a little bit more than totally, you know, someone in London.

[David Rodolitz]

Europeans, yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But, yeah, I see it like this. I actually have. Can I throw something out that I think you guys will find interesting? I believe private clubs in New York will lead to more people having more dinner parties at their home. Let me tell you how I got there. I believe I'm gonna say it again because I think it's interesting. I believe the rise of private clubs in Manhattan. I don't know if you know, this sounds like you do because you spent your uni time in the uk. I don't know if hardcore not travel a lot. Americans know this. In Europe, there's a lot more dinner at home, business meetings. People host a lot more at home. France, huge. Italy, huge. Like, huge. Here we don't do that. Like, people don't. Like, not in the city. Like, you know, like. And I believe that because people are gonna get. And we already see it at Fly Fish. A lot of people who have been all over the place, like, not to the same restaurant twice in a year have said to me, like, well, literally, when I'm walking, they'll just grab like, gary, I gotta tell you something. I used to be the kind of person where I would not eat in the same restaurant in Manhattan. I would eat out. So same story. I go out four nights a week for the last 25 years. I would not eat in the same restaurant twice in a year. Or it'd be very infrequent, like, for my best places. And I've been here six times in two weeks. I think as people start to find value in cozy. I've seen multiple. I've done this. It's happened to me. So I'm scratching my own itch here. And I've heard from two or three other friends that they're starting to host dinner parties because there's something about this coziness that extends even deeper in your own home. Now. That's a heavy lift. And people are not gonna want to do it all the time. But I think the complete change is here, which is people gonna add a little bit of home in the city. I'm predicting that next five, 10 years, I think they're gonna have their one to two to three clubs, right? And Then. And still, they're gonna go to 12 to 25 different restaurants in rotation to try it out. It's the hot plate, and it'll just be a new mix instead of it just being eating out and. Or doing takeout into your home, which were the primary things that people in New York did.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah, Yeah. I want to segue into a bit of a controversial question, but is a common situation for everyone in restaurants. How do you handle negative reviews?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Easily. I mean.

[David Rodolitz]

Well, I feel like Gary's. Like Gary would actually either say, it's quite simple.

[Josh Capon]

We take the high road. It's actually like, almost opposite strategies here. First off, like, we take the high road every single way. And depending on what the experience is, obviously, we'll comp off anything. We'll say we're sorry. We'll be very apologetic. I'll personally call anybody. I'll write them an apologetic email myself. Like, just be extremely human about it. And. And regardless of what happened, whether you agree with it or not, just take the high road every single way and just show them that you care. I would say that. And then the other side of it, actually, Gary, why don't you say what you're gonna say?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna. The reason I said it easily and I think you're going there, is when you're in this position of accountability, you have to pull from opposite directions. To David's point, my initial reaction to any negative review, the first time Yelp came out and we got one at Wine library, you would have thought, like, my. My dog died. I take it very serious. I take it serious now, like, at this point in my career. But you have to balance that with. The reason it's easy for me is what you just heard from David. We will never put our head in the sand. We'll never, never blame them. Right, Right. But you have to dissect it, too. There are people who humanly are just looking for the negative.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You have to treat every one of these things individually. But I think it's about accountability because I believe the I'm sorry and I'll fix it oftentimes is more powerful than not having the problem. I'm not scared by having problems. In fact, my whole life is problems. When you have a lot of businesses and you're a business person, you're in the business of firefighting, right?

[David Rodolitz]

Exactly.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

We go in every night knowing something might happen. There's human variable. There's human error, by the way. There's people's lives. I was, by the way, I was sitting at Flying Fish the other night and I was like, are these people getting divorced? Like, like it was like, you know, like, like people are living the real life. And it was a. Whether they were or weren't. It was an incredibly negative vibe. I have a funny feeling if we're one minute late, I'm pouring the wine in the context of that convo that they're gonna, that, you know. And so I think empathy is a great way to react. Accountability second. And then you dissect it and find out if it's an enigma. We talk a lot. Is this a one off problem or is this a structural issue that we have to really attack? And fortunately most things are like a little one off here and there. But if you've got a dish that stinks and you're trying to push it as a signature dish, you may need to completely change it. Or if your food is not hot enough, you need to get the gas to. This is real shit.

[Josh Capon]

Yeah. So I think when you go granular, like Gary saying we're just like extremely hospitable and apologetic and just caring and take accountability, whatever that is. But then when it's like, you know, I took this from Gary kind of like, you know, global praise or global, you know, negativity around, like if there were a bunch of people that were just saying, oh, we don't like fly fish. And it's not like a specific example, but there's just like noise out there. The way we deal with that is we, we actually just don't even interact with that. We don't let ourselves think that we're so great and we also are not so reactive to what everybody's saying. We just head down mode. We're just working every day and trusting our instincts. So I think it really kind of depends on what the example of what the critique is. If there's actually an example of something that happened, we take the high road, we take accountability and I'll personally address it myself and to overly show somebody how much that means to me. But if it's, but if it's more like just noise about something and people kind of, you know, because people do that, people, we just, we don't get high on our own supply and we also don't get overly nervous about anything. We just put it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, I mean, like, it's just part of the course. You're not going to be everyone's flavor. The greatest restaurants of all time have negative reviews and many of them because they've been around for a long Time. I think when you're. When it's. I think you need to over. I think you have to lean towards the reverse of where you're at right now. It's going well for us. So to me, that's where you need to not get, like, delusional and think you're the best. That's actually what you have to.

[Josh Capon]

Last week.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. Yeah. Like, honestly, I think when things are going well, you need to actually overreact to the small things.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like, because that's where you get caught. And you just think, like, who cares? We're on fire. Oh, somebody didn't like the pickle soup. Or, well, guess What? We had 25 new memberships in the last five minutes. Like, it doesn't matter. Of course it does, because it becomes the seed where the whole building can crumble.

[David Rodolitz]

You said something earlier that I wanted to come back to. So hospitality is a very difficult business. You know, very tight, very high fixed costs. Why did you guys choose to double down and go big on this and take a big risk in hospitality, especially now when it seems like it's more competitive than it has been in a really long time in New York?

[Josh Capon]

I mean, I can only speak for myself here. I mean, what's drawn me to hospitality forever is just I love being around people. I love taking care of people. I love great food and beverage. So I'm just extremely passionate about that. And if I'm passionate about that, we're gonna create environments that are authentic and places that I want to be, which then just creates this. This flywheel of exciting, you know, projects and people wanted to be around them. I just. I gravitate towards being around people. I'm a social guy. And then through that, I just got very comfortable dealing with vendors, venues, people, landlords, investors. And it just became something that. Became something that I enjoyed a lot, which then just created more of that opportunity.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think that's exactly right, comma, for me personally. And I just love Roddy and Josh and, you know, felt I could help. And. And I'm never scared if it's hard, because there's always a winner, you know, like, whenever in another part of my life, alcohol consumption's slightly down. And. But the press is, like, super into the headlines, right? And. And. And people are like, oh, man. Like, is your dad's business okay? And Diageo's a big client of Vayner the. I'm like, yes, because it's still a trillion dollars. Like, just because it's like. Like, there's always winners, right? And so, like, everything's competitive. Back to the zero bond thing. Everything's competitive. And if it's not yet competitive and you're good at it, it's about to become competitive. Like, business is hard.

[Josh Capon]

Yeah, I want to zoom in on that because I just feel like you brought up it's such a hard industry and I just. Every day somebody asks me about that and I just feel like there's this negative vibe about the hospitality or restaurant industry.

[David Rodolitz]

Really.

[Josh Capon]

Well, I'll tell you why I think that there's a lot of people.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

There's also.

[Josh Capon]

There's a lack of barriers to entry. There's a lack of barriers to entry. Just follow me here. So generally there's a lot of people that are doing it that probably shouldn't be doing it tomorrow. I don't say I'm going to be a lawyer, I might commit to trying to become a lawyer. But then there's a lot of things and thousands of hours of work and school that you have to do and there's a lot of time in between, between you creating that action to either become good at that and be properly situated to do it, or to bow out and realize that you're not capable of doing that. There's really not that in the restaurant or hospitality industry. All you need is a little bit of friends and family money, you know, an inheritance. So I think if you look at a lot of the groups that do things well, it's not a secret or surprise that those groups doesn't mean that they're not going to have a failure of probably going to have many failures. But it means that most likely these groups continue to do good projects because they think about things a certain way, they think about quality a certain way, and they keep kind of rinse and repeating their strategies. I also think, unfortunately, there's a lot of people that are in it that are not properly set up. They don't think about business a certain way. So I think if you come at.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It, it's also a side hustle for a lot of people.

[Josh Capon]

That's right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The amount of people that make money and then want to have a restaurant is high.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah.

[Josh Capon]

And this is a business. I'm a business guy. We surround ourselves with amazing, you know, culinary talents. You know, obviously, Gary, I think about business a certain way. So no, we're just, we're just set up in a different way. That gives us a little bit of an edge. Doesn't change any bit of the hard work every day, but it gives us a little bit of an edge to approach this industry in a way that other groups, you know, might not be able to.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah. Do you guys think AI will severely impact the restaurant business?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I mean, long term, sure. I mean, long term it's gonna affect everything.

[David Rodolitz]

But it's such a human LED business. It's so.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But I mean, robots will be better cooks than humans.

[Josh Capon]

Qsr fast casual.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But I'm talking like, I don't see a. I mean, it depends on how long you want to play this out. Do I think in 40 years that the best robot cook is dramatically better technician than the best cooks in the world? Yes. I don't think it's even gonna be close. I mean, and what does that like to me, like, what does that mean? For example, we as a society, the celebrity chef. Are you giving a shit who the chef is in a restaurant is a brand new phenomenon. Chefs in America, especially Europe, it's a little bit different. Yeah, but chefs in America were the help. Like if you told somebody in 1979 that you were a chef, people made fun of you. You were the help. Like, like, so the celebrity chef that going to places because you might go because of the food was good, you might know the chef. But like, no, no, I'm going. I don't even know if the food's good yet. But you know, XYZ chef Alain Ducasse is going to like those kind of things. That's a new phenomenon. Right. And so most people, almost everybody who's going to eat a meal out tonight is not analyzing who the humans are that are bringing out the food. They're going to analyze how the food tastes.

[Josh Capon]

I also, I also.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Hold on, stay there because I'm curious how you're. Go ahead. Because I could see your face. I want to jam on this.

[David Rodolitz]

Well, actually, go ahead. I think what's interesting just to build on that point is we're in the rise of chef fluencers, of course, and chefs having a very distinct personal brand.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I mean, in my mind, by the way. That's right. That was the point I was making.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The celebrity chef and now the scaled celebrity chefs. Cause anybody can be a celebrity with the way that social is built.

[David Rodolitz]

Right, right, right, right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Is a new phenomenon. So forever. But again, for sure, viral foods, somebody gets big on TikTok, they open up a pop up for their taco lines out the door. Yes. Do you know how many people in this city today are gonna go to dinner and have no fucking clue the name of the chef that's putting out?

[David Rodolitz]

That's Also true.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, no, no. It's dramatically more true.

[David Rodolitz]

Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That will be 90% of the behavior tonight. And I believe that, you know, nobody's gonna care that a robot made their filet mignon.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah. Okay.

[Josh Capon]

I also just think that there's different segments to the industry and I think certain parts of the industry are gonna get more impact, impacted by it. I think other parts in this year are not like, I think a high touch experience that's very, you know, person driven. You know, I can only think about our little portfolio. But like in Ito and Omakase experience a members club, there's personality, it's an experience, it's high touch. But I think qsr, fast casual, capons, burgers, bar Ito, things like that that are based on scale. A lot of brick and mortar. You need endless efficiencies to get the throughput out. Like, I think that there's different elements that are going to be more impact.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But if I may, David, I think that people misunderstand how profound this technology is. Your granddaughter is going to walk into a restaurant and they're going to know every single aspect of her health infrastructure.

[David Rodolitz]

It's terrifying.

[Josh Capon]

It's crazy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So, so now I go in and I tell David, no gluten free for this family member. You know, Mona's gonna tell him no cooking. Like, right. It's gonna know that.

[David Rodolitz]

Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Do you know how insane that is? Do you know how cool that is? I, I get how people are gonna be. Like, people were scared of privacy and now are sharing their entire lives to people. People like, I want privacy and are like showing them like pooping. Like, like people. You know what I mean? Like, like, like I think people are scared. People are scared of new things and then they get really unscared quick.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah, well, they adopted.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And so the AI of it all, like literally like just computers thinking.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like, and knowing.

[David Rodolitz]

Well, see, I think for the fast casual and yeah, like the sweet greens of the world, like that does really matter.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But let me say this. When David is on the floor, if there's a massive problem in the kitchen, he just lost an hour and a half of him actually doing the human part. My argument is that perfection with technology and certain things that are table stakes are going to allow him. He spends more than half his night on amending, folding, closing gaps on things that humans are flawed on not showing up to work. A mistake here. When, when technology takes care of the mundane, we can do bigger things. I don't think a robot is now listening. I actually, I'll take The counter. I think robot people will interact with people in 90 years and 70 years and will be better at being charming than David is.

[Josh Capon]

Better not gonna happen.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Better not gonna happen. Did you watch the Megan Fox movie on Netflix?

[Josh Capon]

Probably gonna.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. Okay. So I just think that people are. There'll be small little things right now, fun things for the app. Check in. I'm sure the company I started with Ben Leventhal Rezi will integrate AI technologies to help you pick better restaurants for you or faster bookings. There'll be a lot of little things I took with that question. The very extreme 30, 40 year out, because I want to get every listener to start bending the way they're thinking about things.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah, totally.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like walking into a restaurant. I promise you that the person that's listening right now, who's fully gluten free, who has real celiac and eats clean, is going to love walking into a restaurant and just having what they need to show up, show up. Instead of the 15 minutes, the anxiety of did they actually deliver on the request and all the other things that go on.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah, totally. We're getting close to time, so I want to wrap this up. But I wanted to know if I gave you guys a million dollars to invest, what part of hospitality would you invest in?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's fun.

[Josh Capon]

I mean, I'm going to, I'm going to double click on the opposite of AI and I'm going to hire just more talented, amazing people that would normally not make any sense to have in your operation that I think with growth and trying to build a big company will make all of the impact in the organization. People that are just incredible people. Personality, charisma. Like when you're, when you're in this small place that we are. Every person that you hire has to fit a specific role. You need it to be generally within the four wall model of what you have. And then you start to build a little bit of corporate infrastructure. It's very hard. It has to be very precise. And you're just, you're just following that path that it makes sense because you just don't have extra money hanging around. If you gave me a million dollars, I would hire a lot of incredible people to just be around us, to help with the guest experience, to make people want to be around our places. People that are the X factor, that are just, you know, passionate, caring, thoughtful. That's what I would do.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I would invest in the beginnings of a concept that was very narrow menu wise, but everything was built to spit out the CPG product from the Hospitality program.

[David Rodolitz]

I love that. Yeah, that's. That's totally what I would do as well.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, there's two smart. I'm fired. I'm kidding.

[David Rodolitz]

But he's in charge of hiring all the people with. I mean, to sell the product.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think back to my prior answer of a. Like, I actually think back to what we talked about with yin and yang on a bad review. I think the way to really win is to build a bridge to pull very hard on opposite energies. People could think that human set scale is the opposite of AI, but I think they're the compliment. I don't think they're or they. And right. Right back to the thing I was saying, which is AI is going to help David have another hour on the floor every night that he doesn't, which is going to give him another hour to do the thing he just talked about. But if I was doing a million bucks, I think that there's a real opportunity to start restaurants that are actually the foundational fronts to a scaled CPG business.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah, yeah. It makes a lot of sense. What advice would you give to aspiring hospital vitality entrepreneurs?

[Josh Capon]

I. I think what's working for us and, and that's how I'm going to start it. Just because I think that that's the most important thing when thinking about advice is really to create concepts that you are excited about. A lot of people are reverse engineering. Oh, let's come up with this. This is the new.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

This is where the money.

[Josh Capon]

This is where the money's gonna be. And like.

[David Rodolitz]

Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like clean eating. But you hate clean, clean eating. But you think there's money in it. You're gonna get killed.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh Capon]

Every concept has been done. Everything is just a riff off somebody else's. So for us, we're making concepts of places that we want to be at. It's really that simple. If we want to be there, the people that we hang out with will likely want to be there because we share interests and. And things that we like doing together. And I think you're just going to want to be there that extra hour in the night. You're going to think about it the moment you wake up.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I couldn't.

[Josh Capon]

You're going to be just endlessly passionate about it. I selfishly create concepts that I want to be at so I don't have to spend money to other people's concepts.

[David Rodolitz]

Clearly. You guys love sushi.

[Josh Capon]

I do love sushi. Now we have, you know, four sushi restaurants.

[David Rodolitz]

That's perfect.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, I think I. I just. To put a. A bow on it. It's. It's the extreme version of my most biggest belief to entrepreneurs in general, which is it's so fucking hard that unless you love it, you're gonna quit or lose. In this one, it's double. The hours are insane. The margins are lower. Like, you need to love the living shit out of it. And as long as you have that, you have a prayer. You can learn all the other stuff.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But if that does not exist, that is why so many talented business people have lost in the restaurant game, because they don't have that element.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah, definitely. I mean, running a restaurant is like being a swan. You're, like, gliding furiously, kicking furiously underwater, but over the surface, you have to appear very graceful. Very, very, very orchestrated.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's very well said.

[David Rodolitz]

Yeah. Well, thank you guys so much for having me in your office and for coming on the stanza today. Really, really appreciate it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Congrats to you.

[Josh Capon]

Thank you.

[David Rodolitz]

Thank you, guys.