This Is Where AI Is Taking Us — An AI & Social Media Playbook For 2025 | GaryVee w/ Iced Coffee Hour

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Will Virtual Influencers Replace Us?" | GaryVee on Iced Coffee Hour Podcast

Release Date: May 19, 2025
Podcast: The GaryVee Audio Experience
Host: Gary Vaynerchuk
Guests: Graham Stephan & Jack Selby

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of The GaryVee Audio Experience, Gary Vaynerchuk joins Graham Stephan and Jack Selby on the Iced Coffee Hour podcast for a deep dive into various personal and professional topics. The conversation spans from Gary's boundless energy fueled by gratitude to the emerging trend of virtual influencers and its potential impact on society.

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1. Energy and Gratitude

Key Discussion Points: Gary attributes his high energy levels to a combination of natural adrenaline and a profound sense of gratitude. He emphasizes that maintaining an optimistic outlook allows him to be more productive and happier.

Notable Quotes:

• [00:37] Gary Vaynerchuk: "I'm incredibly driven by gratitude. It is not lost on me that a day that I wake up where no one that I care about has died or became terminally ill is a good day."
• [01:42] Graham Stephan: "How do you consciously and actively practice gratitude?"
• [01:49] Gary Vaynerchuk: "I think I've been on it for so long, in fact, it's a little weird. I've become very introspective."

Gary shares personal anecdotes about his upbringing, highlighting how early experiences with loss shaped his grateful perspective. He credits his mother for instilling in him a focus on the positive, which has become a cornerstone of his success and personal fulfillment.

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2. Burnout and Work-Life Balance

Key Discussion Points: The conversation shifts to the concept of burnout and how Gary redefines it. Instead of viewing burnout as sustained unhappiness, Gary sees it as readiness to move on to new ventures. He discusses his own experiences with burnout during the intense years of building Wine Library and how he overcame it by initiating new projects.

Notable Quotes:

• [04:14] Graham Stephan: "What's something that they should be willing to sacrifice that they don't sacrifice?"
• [04:30] Gary Vaynerchuk: "I think if you're in your perfect pocket, you're not sacrificing. I actually think you're being selfish."
• [11:09] Gary Vaynerchuk: "I really do not view it as burnout. I view it as, like, ready to move on."

Gary emphasizes the importance of self-awareness in maintaining work-life balance. He shares his current work schedule, which typically spans from 8:30 AM to 10:00 PM, reflecting his dedication and the demands of running VaynerX and VaynerMedia. He also touches on the concept of financial success, advocating for personal definitions rather than societal standards.

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3. Authenticity and Public vs. Private Life

Key Discussion Points: Authenticity remains a central theme as Gary discusses its evolution from a buzzword to a strategic element in personal branding. He distinguishes between genuine authenticity and forced attempts to appear authentic, stressing that true authenticity is evidenced by longevity and consistency.

Notable Quotes:

• [21:22] Gary Vaynerchuk: "Authenticity's always worked. I think people try to force it all the time, which is the complete opposite of it."
• [21:40] Gary Vaynerchuk: "I am inherently private, which is wild, right?"

Gary articulates his approach to privacy, deciding to keep his personal life out of the public domain. He advocates for reverse engineering one's truth, encouraging influencers to be self-aware and to share what aligns with their authentic selves without succumbing to external pressures.

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4. Virtual Influencers and the Future of AI

Key Discussion Points: A significant portion of the conversation delves into the rise of virtual influencers and artificial intelligence. Gary predicts that virtual influencers will become a dominant force in the next five years, paralleling how Disney monetizes characters like Mickey Mouse. He envisions a future where AI-driven avatars engage audiences indistinguishably from real humans.

Notable Quotes:

• [44:01] Gary Vaynerchuk: "I believe that within a decade, many people, millions of people will own virtual people and monetize them the way that Disney monetizes Mickey Mouse."
• [46:08] Gary Vaynerchuk: "That your grandkids will marry an AI human."

Gary discusses the implications of AI in relationships, suggesting that AI companions could both alleviate isolation and potentially contribute to population decline. He also explores how AI might impact traditional institutions like marriage, proposing that AI could either support or disrupt these societal norms.

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5. Productivity and Personal Development

Key Discussion Points: Gary shares his philosophies on productivity, emphasizing that it is a personal metric defined by individual goals and values. He contrasts his approach to productivity with that of other influencers, advocating for impactful actions over sheer financial gains.

Notable Quotes:

• [38:07] Gary Vaynerchuk: "Who gets to define productivity? My answer is you get to define it and then you get to change your mind."
• [39:05] Gary Vaynerchuk: "What is productive is productive. Making a million dollars a year. Ten hundred. Is productivity."

He highlights the importance of aligning productivity with personal happiness and long-term well-being, questioning societal definitions that prioritize financial success over personal fulfillment.

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6. Self-Awareness and Accountability

Key Discussion Points: The trio delves into the significance of self-awareness and accountability in personal growth. Gary critiques the modern tendency to blame external factors for personal setbacks, advocating instead for taking responsibility and proactive problem-solving.

Notable Quotes:

• [54:13] Gary Vaynerchuk: "The utter lack of accountability... You can do anything once you decide it's your fault."
• [54:54] Gary Vaynerchuk: "If you think it's Trump or Biden or Putin or China. That's what you spend your time talking about."

Gary stresses that overcoming a lack of accountability is crucial for unlocking one's full potential. He encourages listeners to focus on what they can control and to take decisive actions rather than dwelling on external circumstances.

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7. Rapid Fire Insights

Key Discussion Points: Towards the end of the episode, Gary participates in a rapid-fire segment, providing succinct and personal responses to quick questions. This segment adds a lighter and more personal touch to the conversation.

Notable Quotes:

• [63:15] Gary Vaynerchuk: "Complaining."
• [63:24] Gary Vaynerchuk: "Walt Disney."
• [65:18] Gary Vaynerchuk: "Not even close."

From expressing his dislike for complaining to naming Walt Disney as his entrepreneurial idol, Gary offers listeners a glimpse into his personal preferences and values.

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Conclusion

This episode of The GaryVee Audio Experience offers a comprehensive look into Gary Vaynerchuk's mindset on gratitude, productivity, authenticity, and the future of AI in influencing. His candid discussions provide valuable insights for entrepreneurs, content creators, and anyone interested in personal development and the evolving landscape of digital influence.

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Key Takeaways:

• Gratitude Fuels Productivity: Maintaining an optimistic outlook enhances energy and efficiency.
• Redefining Burnout: Viewing burnout as a signal to transition rather than sustained misery.
• Authenticity Over Strategy: Genuine authenticity is built through consistency and longevity.
• Rise of Virtual Influencers: AI-driven avatars will play a significant role in media and influence.
• Personalized Productivity: Productivity should align with individual values and definitions.
• Accountability is Crucial: Taking personal responsibility is essential for growth and overcoming challenges.

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For Further Listening: To gain a deeper understanding of Gary Vaynerchuk's philosophies and strategies, consider tuning into other episodes of The GaryVee Audio Experience, where he covers a wide range of topics including marketing, business development, and personal growth.

Transcript

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the GaryVee audio experience. Today's episode comes from Gary's recent appearance on the Iced Coffee Hour podcast. In this one, Gary sat down with Graham and Jack for what turned into, in my opinion, one of the most introspective interviews Gary's had in a long time. They get into everything from how gratitude fuels Gary's energy to the real reason burnout happens, to how he thinks about parenting purpose and what success actually means. This is when you're gonna want to hear, let's get right into it.

[Graham Stephan]

How do you have so much energy? Is it pure adrenaline or is it caffeine? Do you get, like, 12 hours of sleep every night? You must not, because you work so much.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know, it's funny. So to answer your question, I think it's a combination of two things. I think it's natural adrenaline energy. Like, I think there's a DNA part going on, for sure. Hyper schmiper. But I do believe that I have extra energy on top of that because of my emotional and mental perspective. I think I'm incredibly driven by gratitude. It is not lost on me that a day that I wake up where no one that I care about has died or became terminally ill is a good day. I'm very half glass full. I really thrive on optimism and gratitude. So I'm in a good mood. And when you're in a good mood, you get more done. Like, if you're dwelling, you're not as productive, you're not as excited, if you're not happy. Like, when I'm concerned or challenged, my energy is not as high. I'm not as light.

[Jack Selby]

So you think if more people practice that they would have more energy throughout the day to get more done?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

100% and not even, like, from a business, you know, I love my business life, but I'm just talking about, like, life, like, more done, as in, like, and just, like, it's better.

[Graham Stephan]

How do you consciously and actively practice gratitude? Is it like a journal or is it every morning you go, It's a conversation with myself.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Pretty consistent. It's. I think I'm so deep on this. Like, I don't need a journal. I don't need an app. I don't need a guru. I don't need a podcast to listen to to get me there. I think I've been on it for so long, in fact, it's a little weird. You catch me at a good time. I've become very introspective. I'm gonna go pretty Deep with you on this one. Both my parents lost a parent very, very early on. My mom lost her mom at 5. My dad lost his dad at 15. Recently, I've realized how big of a currency and a backdrop that was to my own childhood. I was pretty petrified to lose one of my parents. Like, for real. Like, you guys are young enough that, like, you probably can remember your childhood pretty solidly. Like, I do not believe you or Mike that. Who's my dude here in the background. I don't think the three of you or the millions that are listening over the next decade. I don't think most people thought about their parents dying suddenly multiple times a week in their youth. I did. So I think kind of my curse of that became my gift. By the time I got to 18, I was so grateful that it didn't happen. It's almost like I've been playing with house money since. This has been a really new revelation for me that I've been thinking through. So I think that. I think as I got older and even as a kid, I just knew that I had talent as a kid, I knew I was talented. I knew I could make people like me. I knew people naturally like me, so I didn't have to try to make them like me. Even if I did, I knew that I cared about people. I knew I was good at stuff like hand eye coordination. I always focused on positives. Like, I was good at hand eye coordination, but I wasn't big and strong, but I was like, I'm great at hand eye coordination. Not crying about not being big and strong, but being like, I have better hand eye coordination. Like, I always focused on the positive. It was ingrained in me. I was parented that way. I think my mom has a huge impact on who I am to the. I give her pretty much all the flowers. That's why it's easy for me to talk about myself. I don't think on the record, I don't think I. Every time you like Gary Vee are the best. I'm like, Tamara and Sasha are the best. They are the best. They made me. I'm the product. Vee friends, when I build it, I'll take those accolades. I built it, you know, but me, it's so. Yeah, I think I. It's so deep, bro. I think, like, whatever. The monks and the Buddhists and, like, the deepest on anything, you know, like athletes. Like, how do you move like that? They've been doing it their whole. I've been grateful my whole life.

[Graham Stephan]

It's interesting that it's the gratitude. One thing that's really admirable, admirable about you is your ability to be so productive and work so hard. I'm curious, for those that want to be successful, what's something that they should be willing to sacrifice that they don't sacrifice?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know the cliche answers. People think the answers go into like time with your friends and family. It's real. But that's not kind of like what naturally I felt when you said that. I think I'm gonna say something interesting. I think if you're in your perfect pocket, you're not sacrificing. I actually think you're being selfish. I think what people need to do is find their selfish place.

[Jack Selby]

What about for people though who want a balance in addition to, let's say, financial success?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It depends on what financial success is and what balances. This is like why these are important combos. Like real talk.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What's financial success? Do you write this minute? What do you personally believe financial success is to the average man and woman? How much do they make in a year?

[Jack Selby]

I would say for the average person, probably got to be about 250 grand a year. And that would be enough.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What do you think yours is for you right now at this point in your life?

[Jack Selby]

At this point, Gosh, I think it's an ever lasting treadmill.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Of course.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's why I notice I'm asking you the question.

[Jack Selby]

Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

For you personally, right this minute. What is financial success in a year?

[Jack Selby]

A dollar amount.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes. Right now, at this point in your, like right this second.

[Graham Stephan]

Graham doesn't want to say this because if I feel like he'll get screwed.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

By the way, by the way, by the way before, by the way. That's fair. And I want, I want everybody hear this. Whatever you say.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It's not too big or too small. This is where we need to give grace to each other, all of us. It's just your subjective feelings at this moment.

[Jack Selby]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

There's nothing. If he says 14 million, what's going to happen in the comments? Like he's a piece of. Because like the average American detached from reality, fair to him. That's where he's at right now. By the way. Let me give you all the preview. He will go up and down even though he has the capacity to make more things change. I'm just asking you in this moment.

[Jack Selby]

Eventually It'd be awesome. 10 million.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Great. So to me, here's the question.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Next. What do you think the work life balance is on for you balance on 10 million a year it would probably.

[Jack Selby]

Be a constant 24 hour a day, seven day a week. Thought struggle for me to just focus on one thing and do that nonstop.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Do you want to do that?

[Jack Selby]

No.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Okay, that's it. Like this. When you start breaking down these questions like when you say 10 to me, the next question is like why not 15?

[Jack Selby]

It just seems like an even round number.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I appreciate it. I think that's right. The other question becomes like what is balance? Like you're married.

[Jack Selby]

Yes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Are you?

[Graham Stephan]

No.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Right. Let's just go there. That's perfect. That worked out super well for me. Shit's different. You remember not being married?

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Easier to put more into work.

[Jack Selby]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Real, then child, then parent, sick, then parent not sick, then burnt out after a while of something and just like not as fun as it was for six years. Like when I did wine, library, tv every day for five days a week. I loved it all the way until I didn't like it at all. You guys like this right now?

[Jack Selby]

Love it.

[Graham Stephan]

Love it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'll tell you, there's going to be a day where you don't for real. That's okay.

[Jack Selby]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's just human. So you know, to answer your question, brother, like, you know, how does one balance it? By being the judge and jury of themselves. Like whose standard of work life balance am I supposed to achieve to or you or you? Whose definition of financial success am I supposed to. What is it? Is it your 250k for the average or is it the American average of 60, 70, 80k? 250k makes a lot of sense in San Francisco and New York and LA. 250k in rural Middle of nowhere Tennessee.

[Jack Selby]

Or Drillionaire, what is your current work life balance look like?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

My normal Monday to Friday is 8:30 to 10:00pm that's my normal. Now there's times when my son has basketball practice and 7:30, I'll go into that world or Knicks are in the playoffs right now, I'll go to a Knicks game. But my normal right now is probably nine to nine. Somewhere in the range of 12 hours a day.

[Jack Selby]

And when was the last time you felt burnt out? How did you overcome that?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I define subjectively burnt out as sustained unhappiness doing the thing. And my definition of sustained is probably a hundred days in a row. I've not had that. Here are my moments of change. In my late 20s, early 30s, I had spent working 150 hours a week building a huge business for my father and was getting paid Nothing. In my late. From 22 to 28, six years straight, 365 days a year. In my late 20s, I started to feel anxiety that I was in a bad spot because I had no money and I was built a huge business and I had nothing to show for it. I was just getting married at the time, and I was like, oh, my God, I'm poor. I was making $50,000 a year. So. And not that 50,000 is poor, but 50,000 when you actually work 150 hours a week is real bad. You know, it's different if you're working 40 hours. Unless you're getting the bowling team and the weekends and your kids. Right.

[Graham Stephan]

Wage your hourly.

[Jack Selby]

Exactly.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So I was in a real tough spot that went from like 28 to, like 30 to a really interesting time for me and my dad. We had a lot of friction. I was reconciling my feelings, he was reconciling his. And it finally hit an inflection point where I was like, I gotta leave this business and start my own thing. And my brother was graduating college. I started this Spain or media. So I would say the last time I really felt burnt out Macro was the last years of Wine Library, because I felt like the trade wasn't fair. And I don't blame my dad, actually. It's immigrant business. He's like, you're going to inherit it. It's going to be yours. So it was like all those immigrant. You know. The other time I felt burnt out was with Wine Library TV, the last 50 episodes. I was like, I'm done with this. I've done this. It's five days a week, five years. I'm done. DailyVee put me on the map in a lot of ways for a lot of people.

[Jack Selby]

That's what I remember.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know, even now, when the guys want to film me, I'm like, so used to not being filmed. It feels weird. Whereas for the first year after Dailyvee, it felt weird to not be filmed. There's that. So projects feel, like, burnt out, but I don't feel burnt out. I don't feel, like, soulless or sad.

[Jack Selby]

It sounds like, though, you feel burnt out when you. When you've accomplished everything that you've set out for.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. And I'll be honest with you, I really don't view it as burnt out. I view it as, like, ready to move on.

[Jack Selby]

Okay.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think words have gotten weird. Like, I think a lot of people use the, like, weaponize the word anxiety when they're inconvenienced. I think we've created words like imposter syndrome to make the word insecure or ick. People use that word. Yeah. So I really genuinely do not associate with burnout. I think there's been moments where I was done.

[Jack Selby]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

To your point.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And I. But I don't like burnout. To me, seems like an emo. I define burnout as emotionally struggling.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

I like how you break down what a word actually means. It reminds me of like Jordan Peterson or reminds me of like Alex Hormozi. You know who that is. I'm on the podcast recently. He said that he doesn't like to use words like burnout because he prefers to use words in observable reality.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

And that's what you did. You broke down burnout to be like. I consider it as sustained, you know, displeasure with something for a hundred days.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think words. I think that's interesting insight. I think words have been weaponized. Words have been.

[Graham Stephan]

It's too ambiguous. It's subjective. But if you break it down into something that's observable, then it actually is.

[Jack Selby]

Speaking of words, a popular one lately is quiet quitting.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Jack Selby]

Do you feel like this is a. A way for people to support a healthy boundary or is it something that people use as an excuse for just both not working hard?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, both. Or just like cheating the system. Like people will cheat the system if they can. If they don't respect or like the system. Like, I don't worry about people Vayner that way because I think we like them too much and do the right things. And I know people do, but it's not a sustained issue for us. But I think another company that doesn't give a about their employees have it at scale because what you put in is what you get out.

[Jack Selby]

So do you think it's a problem with the employer in those situations, not the employee?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I do. I'm going to say it again.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

We have 2,000 plus employees here at VaynerX. There are definitely dozens and dozens that are doing all sorts of. That I would not be happy about because we no longer work in a five day. Like you can like. Right. But I'm not crippled by it because it's inconceivable that it's at scale because we're too productive as an organization. And I just know what we do for our employees, which is we're not Mother Teresa, but we like, we have, we have humanity. I think, I think if corporations had more humanity, they would win.

[Jack Selby]

What's a way that you would recommend they incentivize their employees to work harder.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

By reverse engineering them individually. Some employees want more money.

[Jack Selby]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Some people want a new title. Some people want more work life balance. Some people want to work in a different department. We're in constant I and I don't like saying I, but I'm going to say, because I dictate this from the top, I more than even my direct reports and their direct reports. And now as I keep putting more pressure on this, we do a pretty darn good job of being open for business for the other person because the more we make it awesome, the more they'll stay. The more retention I have, the faster I think we can go. I think businesses like sports. I think speed matters.

[Jack Selby]

And how do you do that at scale with so many employees?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Effort. Effort. Like it's just something I give a about.

[Jack Selby]

And for people, you know, like, yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It'S like, like, you know, you'll find this so interesting.

[Jack Selby]

It's.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It's an interest. The reason I'm double clicking is I want to bring value to the audience. And I felt I left it kind of high, but. But I'll tell you why I left it high and why I'm gonna go low now. If you care about something, you will do it the end. Like, the actual answer to your question is effort.

[Jack Selby]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Underneath that, allocating time in my schedule for one on ones using the people that have been here for a decade and deploying them on places I can't get to that I know needs humans. You know what I mean? Like, it takes up my mind time. This may actually. Actually this is really cool. You'll find this interesting because of what you guys do. And I have a sense of how you're paying attention. Both of you know, I've been less Gary ved out the last 12 to 18 months in the personal brand game. There's other people that have popped like I've been operating. This is actually me now deciding I'm going back into effort of Gary V. So I guarantee people will feel me around more and know more of me and feel like Gary Vee's everywhere more in 26 than in 24 and 25. Because in 24 and 25 I operated Vayner X and V Friends Effort.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

What do you think about potential overexposure? Does that ever bother you in terms not achievable?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You don't think it's possible who's overexposed?

[Graham Stephan]

I think it depends. I think if. If you have a story and you go on 30 podcasts.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Graham Stephan]

Generally speaking, each performance of, you know, each unique podcast will start to dwindle because the story gets redundant. People have heard it enough times, you're.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Looking at it from the wrong angle. You're in the game of knowing what the going on right now. To you, it'll become redundant.

[Graham Stephan]

Right. But to the. The guest on the show, it's still new.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Eyeballs, not the overlaps are there. And by the way, here's how it's going to play out. Okay. By the way, back to me. I'm going to be out and about. Okay. Gary Vee's showing up on all the same. Let me hear. I haven't heard. Ironically, some people I haven't heard. It's probably talking about the same. But let me say. Oh, some. Then they go and listen. A second week later, I'm on something else. They're like, let me listen again. Pretty similar to what he just did with coffee, you know, like. And then the third time I show up in the results of like the new podcast, they're like, I'm not going to listen. They're not. I'm not getting overexposed. They've gotten their fulfillment. But every one of these shows has different audiences. Not to mention, this will resonate for you guys because you had a journey of consuming my content. We also like the greatest hits from our favorite artists like Elton John and the Rolling Stones and Billy Joel are still playing the same.

[Jack Selby]

But there is something to be said about people or bands or brands who only make an appearance every now and then. And it's such a big special occasion, like My chemical romance taken 20 years off and then coming back once and that's like a big hit event.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Why are we so addicted to or what about and you're right.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And people don't get overexposed and have consistent awareness. And Bill Brand, listen, I've been one of the most prolific public figures in social media, which is the medium of dominance today. An ungodly amount of people know me. I'm stunned every time I'm outside. A much bigger group does not.

[Jack Selby]

It's interesting from our perspective because I've started posting less, but the less I post now, the more views each video gets.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Of course, because it's sitting there longer. Correct.

[Jack Selby]

But it's also a bit more special when it's like once a week or once every other week.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You're choosing ideology.

[Graham Stephan]

I, I actually disagree with that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think your net awareness is down.

[Graham Stephan]

You've increased your, your barrier to post a video. Like it needs to be a more pressing event, it needs to be a bigger deal. And so for that, it pro raises the average.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But by the way, you're allowed. And by the way, you may want less people to know, but be impacted deeper. But by.

[Jack Selby]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But people are like, Gary, get more views. I'm like, no, like, but what about your gross views for the month?

[Jack Selby]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So by the way, everyone's allowed. You're allowed to be Marlon Brando and you're allowed to be Arnold Schwarzenegger. Like you, you know, like, or whoever's, you know, that was the 80s of like being in every movie running, like, matter how. You're Kevin Hart. Yeah, you're allowed to be Kevin Hart. And you're allowed to be, you know, a Once in a Blue Moon. They're both. They both work. My answer is and, and. But I want everyone to hear this right now. They're like, oh, yeah, I'm more that. I'm more like you, not like Gary. But then, but what about. You're allowed to be both versions, by the way, I'm just living through me being less content out there, even though my less is like quite a bit. By the way, I may wake up in a year and get into the concept of one post a month and do that for a year and then be like, that was awesome. And be like that. I'm back to volume at scale. The restrictions we put on ourselves is fascinating to me. So for me, when I hear that, I'm like, that's awesome. Enjoy this chapter and you'll make decisions. If this works for you. It doesn't. And you're also allowed to change your.

[Jack Selby]

Strategy now for people who are on that entrepreneurial journey, how do you know or how do you dictate when to push through something versus when to. When to quit and try something different?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Only God knows. The amount of people that quit a week before it was all going to turn is actually quite high in the scheme of the last hundred years. The amount of people that right now continue to do something that is based on nothing but delusion is even higher. My answer to this question is, do you like it?

[Jack Selby]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And how long can you hold your breath? Those are my two questions to you. If this, if we were three brothers and we're just jamming on this for real, not on a podcast, I'd be like, do you like it? How long can you hold your breath?

[Jack Selby]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's it. That's the answer to that question.

[Graham Stephan]

It's interesting. So for this podcast, obviously, for any guests we have on the show, we do copious amounts of research. And so I feel like I've listened to you for I don't even know how many tens of hours in the past, you know, couple weeks, easily. But I'm curious because you seem different now than in the previous things I've seen you on. Like, you seem way more introspective, way more like subjective. Like you've been more meta.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like, do you know why?

[Graham Stephan]

Why?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Because your guy's energy is that I'm chameleon.

[Jack Selby]

I feel like you've been on some pretty relaxed podcasts, though. Like, you did one recently with a. With a veteran that I saw that I felt was pretty laid back.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, I mean, you know, I would say that what I'm feeling right now while I'm doing this is I really respect your audience and I'm pushing myself to bring as much value as I can, which is what I do in every setting intuitively in a relaxed podcast, sometimes I think energy is the highest value. I'm going on my intuition on what I think could bring the most value. And I think, and I also, to your point, I think life is like day to day as well. Like, I'm also fresh. I don't know what podcast you're talking about and like when they came out, when they were filmed, but because I haven't been put it on so many podcasts so often for so long lately, I do feel a little fresh. And when I'm fresh, it takes me down new paths too.

[Jack Selby]

That's interesting. I think when it comes to social media too, I think people really value authenticity.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Jack Selby]

Do you feel like now authenticity is almost becoming like a strategy where people are really like over emphasizing authenticity?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I have good news. Like you can go back to interviews I did in 2007 on YouTube and that was the buzzword of 2007, social.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think authenticity's always worked. I think people try to force it all the time, which is the complete opposite of it. And I think there's the way to really judge authenticity is longevity. I think the people that try to fake authenticity do not have very long plays.

[Jack Selby]

How much is there out there that you choose publicly not to talk about? Because you're pretty open about quite a few things. And how do you dictate what you are public about versus what you're not?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

My private life is something I don't talk about. I always thought that I was too important because I kind of had a sense early on that I was gonna, it was gonna work. I just knew, you know, when you know? Yeah, I just knew. So I was like, let me be thoughtful about this. Like, if I get like, actually, this is like 2006, I'm like, if I get actually famous, like, what. What is the worry about that? It's like, oh, privacy is valuable. Plus, actually, actually, you know what? That might even be. That might not even be fully authentic. I am inherently private, which is wild, right? But like, yeah, I mean, I think talking about your passions or ideas or business, that feels like public domain. But like my children or my relationships and I don't know, like, you know.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So I talk about my parents a lot because it's a framework to like. But it's not like I'm telling you, like what's going on in their lives or like, like I'm not in reality tv. So that was conscious. Things like politics or religion or things that are a little spicier, I don't talk about them because it's. Because I don't love to contribute from a place of opinion. I like to come from a place of observation. So if I talk about politics, my observation is that the opposite sides of every issue weaponize fear to get people into a frenzy. And that's it. That's my observation. It's like uncomfortably boring.

[Jack Selby]

Do you recommend other influencers keep certain parts of their lives private as well?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think people have to reverse engineer their truth. You know, like, I don't have real hunger for fame. If someone has intrinsic deep value and hunger for fame, giving the world your personal life is one of the clear paths. I don't really want to deploy my judgment on someone else's journey.

[Jack Selby]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

So, no, I don't. I recommend people being self. Aware.

[Jack Selby]

What are some of the.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I recommend. I recommend people being self aware and I recommend. I just said this earlier and I saw you picking up on this. I also recommend people having the ability to change their mind. Like right now, if you're listening right now, I'll be like, yeah, man, I am pouring out my children too much. And I'm starting to see the negatives of that. Like my four year old daughter was like stopped in a park by somebody the other day because I'm doing that. Well, you're allowed to change. People struggle with change like that. Like this a lot of the genre of this convo right now. I want people to have the strength to change their mind because that really is liberating to allow you to do a lot of.

[Jack Selby]

What do you think holds people back from change? Is it fear?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Of course, of judgment from other Human beings. Insecurity is the poison that navigates our world.

[Graham Stephan]

What are you insecure about?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

In my youth, I was insecure about girls rejecting me.

[Graham Stephan]

Like, did you get rejected or something?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, because back to not doing, like, I didn't ask out a lot of girls in high school and college that I wanted to because I was fearful of the rejection. In a world where, like, I was, like, pretty charismatic and had my game together in a way like. Like, you know, as you get older, especially because I became a public figure. The amount of, like, when I first started happening, the amount of girls that reach out to me, like, why didn't you ask me out? And like. And like, I could be grounded in the fact that I don't think they were saying that now because this was even happening. Like, not the Gary Ve. Like, even when the wine thing happened, which meant nothing to nobody. It was just, like, reconnecting. Like, so that was a part of my life that I. That was very clear. In fear. I feared most basic adolescence things. I feared to ride a bike. I didn't want to skin my knee. I feared swimming. I didn't want to drown. I feared those two things very heavily. But by comparing, like, I was a late bloomer in a lot of ways. That way.

[Graham Stephan]

But what are you insecure about now?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Not much. What am I insecure about now? Deep. Like. Like, and this will probably go into territory of things I don't want to share. But, like, let me say it this way. I. I'll say it in a way that I feel comfortable because I want to answer it and not. Not answer it. The number one thing I probably fear now is I want to be as good of a father as I possibly can. And so that's very top of my list. Like, am I achieving that? And scared about things that I haven't been able to get to the place where I wanted to.

[Jack Selby]

What do you think could hold you back from that?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Being able. The thing that I've always struggled with, historically, it's a wild one. My greatest weakness, my kryptonite. In a world where I was luck of the draw, gifted with a ton of circumstances and a lot of other things, and then put in a lot of work and feel very comfortable in that was I'm not canderous with people I love. Like, my lack of candor, it blows people away.

[Graham Stephan]

Like, that doesn't make sense.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'll explain. I don't give a what you two think of me. I do not care what anyone who's listening cares. I care very deeply. I care more of what Mike thinks about me than you guys and anybody listening. And he's a young employee in my life, and I care more about what Kaylin, who's worked here for 13 years, feels than Mike. But you start getting into my children and my parents. The more I love you, the more I care about how you feel. And I was raised by a mother who was not canderous, who had such gift of gab and charisma and personality, too, that she could just get to the result without making conflict. Got it. I also was raised by a father who was ridiculous with conflict and looked for conflict at every point. So I had two very opposite parents. And I was formed in a way where I viewed candor as creating fear for someone because I've always had leverage. For most of my life, I have been the financial and emotional leader of my life, meaning me and everybody around me. So when you have leverage and you're deploying candor, there's a lot that comes with that. When you're telling an employee that, bro, you're not good at your job, my brain goes into Mike walks out of here and starts to go to LinkedIn, starts to cry, starts to go do drugs, and I'm going to lose my job. I just created fear. I had to have a very tough chapter in my life about five to seven years ago when I realized this was my kryptonite. And what I was actually doing was creating fear because people would have to get fired when you're running a company. And what people started to understand was they didn't know where they stood with me. And that became the ultimate fear. Very humbling moment in my mid-40s.

[Jack Selby]

And how did you navigate that? And how do you break into just being open and honest with people without creating fear?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

All of our vulnerabilities are things we can't see. I'm really fortunate with self awareness and paying attention, but I couldn't see the candor thing. Once it became obvious to me, both with my employees and some of my personal relationships, I was like, oh, and I'm talking, like, looking myself in the mirror, brushing my teeth, and looking at my eyes and being like, dude, my inner dialogue is really cool. Like, me and me are good. You know, I really just went there. I was like, dude, you suck at this, man. Like, and this is going to ruin your life.

[Jack Selby]

Was there a specific moment that was, like, a combination?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You know, not to go too far, but it was a combination of things going on at work, which I'm comfortable with, which was I love my employees. Super heavy.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

There was just enough employees and I knew why they were mad at me that were running around the world being like, all I care about is anyone who knows me to think I'm a decent man. Having employees that were running around the world being like, Gary Vee was like, this is wrong. The only ones that were saying Gary Vee were people that were consistently underperforming. But I didn't have the ability to over communicate it and then would pull the rug from underneath them. It was black and white.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

On my subjective opinion, maybe they were performing and I was wrong. But that's, you know, that's the judge and the jury when you own a business, right?

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I was like, that sucks. I gotta fix that. And then things in my personal life, which I'm less comfortable sharing. But ultimately I was like, look, I've gotta fix this. And it's hard, bro. Like, you're in pretty good shape. I don't know if you've always been or not. I'm in better shape than I've been historically. It's work. I was in Toronto for a board meeting last night. I landed last night at midnight. I was in the gym at 6am this morning. In the gym. I landed at midnight. You have to put in the work to be able to be better. And so I had a. And I continue to practice candor right now, and I'm still a 5 out of 10. But that jump from 1 to 5 has closed a lot of wounds and vulnerabilities.

[Jack Selby]

Who do you go to for advice?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The truth is, no one, which is a great gift and a great weakness. What I do when I'm in a place of thought is go into more of a cocoon. I'm actually talking and advising and jamming. Like, if we were like, if we hung out, if we liked each other, we'd have dinner, we'd have these kind of dinners. Different, because we're a podcast. It would be this. Yeah, I'm always thinking and philosophying and strategizing and vulnerable and like, I'm living and I'm taking it. Like, it's almost like advice is happening all the time. But when it's in the moment that you're asking where I'm like really thinking through something, I weirdly do the reverse. I think most people don't advice every day and then when they have a problem, go for advice. I'm the reverse. I'm like constantly, like advising. But then when something's really important, I go into cocoon and I'm in my own and I think it through.

[Graham Stephan]

How do people improve self awareness? It seems like, like you were saying, the ability to be dynamic and change your opinion, change your mind, change your beliefs is one of the best ways that you can improve your overall life.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think so.

[Graham Stephan]

That is self awareness is required for that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think therapy is good. I think going to therapy and having another human being who's professionally trained try to throw some things at you really is good. I think what I've done is I think there's a very big relationship between humility and self awareness. So I have a very big thesis that humans are not trickable. And then I have another thesis that humans are the most trickable. So let me break it down. My belief is that 99% of people are uncomfortably trickable and that's how the world works.

[Graham Stephan]

What do you mean?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think most people are so insecure, so short term, so selfish that if you just feed them what they need that you can basically manipulate them into anything you want to do. It's what politics does, it's what businesses do. It's like what life is. I hate that. What I like is trying to win with the 1% that are the reverse. And those people are completely the reverse. They're completely not trickable. And I think when you understand that what I just said, or if you believe it and whether my percentages are right, maybe it's 80, 20, but like the concept that the masses are in this one place and then there's a different group of people that you actually want to be friends with that you actually want to know that it's the actual thing, that if you think that you'll constantly be in a place of humility and self, you know, analyzation, and you're humble, you're listening. And I think there's something there in a real way to what you're asking. I think surrounding yourself with the right type of people has the potential to create a lot of self awareness.

[Graham Stephan]

And what would be the main qualities of someone who is trickable versus non trickable? Like, is it an intelligence thing?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I believe it's a security thing. I think it's confidence versus insecurity. I have come to. I turned 50 in November. Fun number, you know, like how old are you guys?

[Graham Stephan]

26.

[Jack Selby]

I'm 35.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, like even at, you know, you're a straight baby, but even at 35. Right? At 35, you know, back to like my life, you think about 10 mil. I think this will be very exciting for you. Sure. And I hope it's very exciting. More importantly to the audience, at 34, I made $67,000 for the year. Yeah, that's why I believe it. That's why you hear so much Gary Vee about be patient.

[Graham Stephan]

What'd you make at 35?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

35 was when I started doing this and I just signed a book deal. So I got 100k for crush it. I made like probably 240.

[Graham Stephan]

Do you think that you needed to have the actual accolades to play off of that confidence or did the confidence exist from the beginning to the end?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Beginning to the end. DNA parenting circumstance.

[Graham Stephan]

You never questioned your aptitude, you never questioned business.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No. Like I said earlier, what's, what's a child's childhood? Does the opposite sex like you? That was a third of my whole life. So I had plenty insecurity there. Sports, right. I was good early on because I have crazy hand eye coordination. I got worse as we got into middle school because speed, height, power, strength mattered. So that was off school, big one, right? Kids self esteem in school, right. Good grades, smart, bad grades, dumb. Especially if you're almost 50. You grew up in a different world. I'm 25 years ahead of you that way, 23 years ahead of you. Like teachers told me I was an idiot, that I was going to be a loser. Like these are grown ups telling you to your face you're going to be a loser. So I had plenty of things that could be insecurities. I just had the most important things. Right. One, I had a mother who parented me in a way that made me believe in myself. But she didn't do what modern parents are doing, which is create a delusion. She said, you're a good dude, you're good at, you've got strengths. But when I had shortcomings, I had ramifications, I had consequences.

[Jack Selby]

How do you try to instill those same qualities in your children?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

By doing that, by telling them the truth. By cheering for things that are good. Like are they nice people, are they not entitled? But I can't do one of the most important parts. Environment. I did grow up in lower middle class neighborhoods in Jersey. They are growing up very wealthy.

[Jack Selby]

How do you think that's gonna change their perspective? Or the fear that they can't live up to what you've accomplished.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That part I feel good about because I create almost. No, they may have their own version, but one of the great mistakes a parent that is successful makes is ask their child to live up to their I do not have. The problem is there's too many people that are successful that are actually insecure. So then they ask their children to do things because they care what other people think about their children's accomplishments. On the record, on this podcast, I do not give a about what people think about what my children do for a living. So my children will have the luxury of not having a father that wants them to do what? Live up to my legacy. Me. I'm their dad. I just want them to be happy the way I'm happy. And whether they're entrepreneurs like me and what makes them happy is to build. Mazel tov. If they. If what makes them happy is to give away all the money I made because that somehow makes them feel better for being rich kids. And that's what they see the world as. As long as they're happy. Not that that's some sort of poisonous up thing. Like, I just am very focused on, do they enjoy their life? Are they productive? But like, environment so can't be fake.

[Jack Selby]

How close is happiness linked to being productive? Because we had Grant Cardone on about a year ago, and with his daughter in the room, he said he doesn't want her to be happy. He wants her to be productive. And if she's productive by default, she's going to be happy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah. Look, I think every parent is allowed to see the world how they want. I'm also a buyer of productivity, but productive is defined by different metrics. What is productive is productive. Making a million dollars a year. Ten hundred. Is productivity. Knowing that you were born into luxury and thus you give your life's work to give back to humanity and everything in between. I don't know. But yes. I do not think waking up in the morning having nothing to do leads to anything but bad.

[Jack Selby]

Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But what one defines as productive, I think is different for every human.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

For example, I have a lot of ways to maximize for a lot more wealth than I have. That's just not where I'm at. I feel like I'm being more productive by leaving good deposits, by spending a lot of time on Gary Vee and now veefriends. My Pokemon Sesame street thing feels like I'm gonna be able to do both. I can be selfish and selfless. I can build one of the biggest intellectual properties of all time, which is very, very valuable. But I also can get these characters so popular that I can start getting to kids younger and instilling good virtues into them. What's more productive, My income statement this year or the impact I made on Alpha dudes? Not being complete dick faces. What's more productive? How much money I made or the fact that I've gained muscle mass and that injury I got in my dad's liquor store with my left glute, now that I've been able to actually get my mind muscle right and I'm fixing it and I have better life quality, which. Who decides? Productivity?

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

If you make $43 million a year, but your human behaviors of alcohol and eating and gluttony and all this stuff leads to you dying two years later, were you productive in the 43rd year where you made all that money? Or. Or because you're not productive at 45 because you're dead. So I think the definition of. But I agree with the macro thesis. I do believe in productivity. I think. Who gets to define productivity? My answer is you get to define it and then you get to change your mind. Yeah. If you want to go from 20 to 30 and eat Doritos all day and build an empire, good. And then 30 to 40 is pure love and enjoying those, knock yourself out. But don't do it for someone else and don't do it for the cheering, because if you're doing it for the cheering when they're booing, you're dead.

[Jack Selby]

One of the things I really admired about you is that you've been able to almost see and predict the future of what's going to be happening when it comes to social media. And I remember you saying in like 2019 or 2018 about TikTok.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes.

[Jack Selby]

And I remember starting to post on TikTok because of what you were saying back in like 2018 or 2019. I think my first TikTok. What are you seeing now? Is the future landscape for business or for marketing or for getting yourself out there. I know you've mentioned I got a TikTok shop. Live shop.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, love shop. Obsessed with live shopping. If you're listening right now and you sell stuff, you need to go to whatnot and TikTok shop and start selling ASAP. The QVC iFoodation of social media is here in the West. It's been going on in China for 10 years. Do it, do it. The acceleration of organic is also on my mind. I could not speak more to my belief of non overexposure volume, creative for relevance for different consumers. For example, you have Gary Vee on now your clip with me and you on your social. If the next post is you with a female entrepreneur in her 80s, that's going to hit different audiences, different subjects. We're going to talk about in this podcast. So relevance at scale across all seven platforms. Facebook proper. I'm obsessed. If you want to go very nerdy. Are you guys posting a lot on Facebook regular?

[Jack Selby]

We've done it in the past, so.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Right now it was the perfect answer.

[Jack Selby]

Yes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You guys are about to be happy with Gary Vee again. You're going to walk the out of here. Look me in the face and really understand this. This podcast will explode if you get serious about posting multiple times a day on Facebook. Organic. Facebook organic.

[Graham Stephan]

Are you talking clips, like 4 to 12 minute clips? Are you talking about full length podcasts?

[Jack Selby]

You're talking about shorts?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yep.

[Graham Stephan]

Vertical. So just everything.

[Jack Selby]

I'll be honest with you. What happened to our Facebook was that it got completely demonetized and it's been shut down basically for a year and a half because they deemed it as reused content, even though it was our original content. And reaching anybody at Facebook is impossible.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Start another page.

[Jack Selby]

Oh, we had 200 something, 300,000 followers on it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Who gives a. Okay, that would be like saying, I had $200,000. I went to Atlantic City, I lost all the money, so I'm not gonna make more money.

[Jack Selby]

We did that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I want you to start page.

[Jack Selby]

But they shut that one, the new one down too, for reused content. It was some. It was something on our page. I don't want to go too much into it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, we don't have to waste. This is actually gonna be valuable to a lot of people. Start a brand new one with a separate email because maybe it was some technicality. If that gets shut down, then maybe something bigger. But just because you had 200,000. First of all, followers don't matter anymore. You know that, right?

[Graham Stephan]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Do you? Yeah. Like literally.

[Graham Stephan]

I think they matter a little bit.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

They do, you're right.

[Graham Stephan]

But not as much as they did back in the day.

[Jack Selby]

It was, oh yeah, true, by the way.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And it is way on its way to being to a place where it's completely not going to matter. We are fully no longer in social media. We are fully in interest media. We're fully in interest media, social media, word social, who you hang out with, who you follow. Like, we don't see that now. I actually think all the social networks should create two feeds, 100% guaranteed view rates from who you care about, maybe limiting that. There was a great app that I was an investor in called Path years ago that was made by Dave Morin, a great entrepreneur who was an early Facebook employee. His app was called Path. He basically made an instagram he made Instagram before Instagram, where it came out the same time. I don't recall. But you could only have 145 or 120 or 150. I don't remember. It was based on a law of like, how many relationships can a human have? I don't remember the name. But you could only have 150 followers. It was awesome, right? Because you would only follow who you really want to follow. I think if Facebook implemented on Instagram and Facebook and if TikTok implemented one feed, that is a hundred people max, but you see every post from them and the other one fully interest, fully interest, that that's the killer app. That's what I would build right now.

[Jack Selby]

Hmm.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Another thing that virtual influencers, to answer your question, I think the rise of virtual influencers is going to be one of the biggest things over the next five years. I think you guys should create humans that promote your shit.

[Graham Stephan]

Graham and I, I don't think that's possible with two males.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, I understand that part the old way. I think Graham and you should hire a company and actually make your third host a female who's not a real person who's involved in your content, promoting your show, selling your product. I think. I think every human is going to be in the IP business. In 2006, 7, I predicted that everybody would be in social media. And I got really laughed at because it was like nobody was on it and everybody thought it was stupid. Like, who cares if you're walking the dog? Like Twitter used to get done, like, why would you tweet like you're eating pizza? Who gives a. You understand you're young and you were too young for this. Like, the concept of sharing your thoughts was like not acceptable. That was relegated for people on TV in certain programs. This is a new phenomenon. The fact that everybody thinks, like, I'm out there. I believe every person's in the intellectual property business. I believe that within a decade, many people, millions of people will own virtual people and monetize them the way that Disney monetizes Mickey Mouse.

[Jack Selby]

So I've seen some of these with like fake only fans.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Correct.

[Jack Selby]

Where they've just created avatar.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's right. And if you look at only fans and you know the sex industry, always porn only they're always. And obviously winning fans is now broading out. But like they're always ahead. Yes, you. If you've seen that, you probably also know that a year ago those girls predominantly looked really fake. I'm gonna say something to you right now you have consumed a piece of content on Instagram that is an AI person, and your eyes and brain do not know.

[Jack Selby]

100. Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Already.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Now you're still consuming a lot in there. That is clearly fake. A lot better than it looked a year ago. And in three years, not one human's gonna know the difference.

[Jack Selby]

I believe it. I saw on Twitter there's a whole thread about this guy making $10,000 a month in profit from an AI character that he made, that he's posting on Instagram and doing brand deals.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's right.

[Jack Selby]

With his whole character.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's right. That's a scale already and hasn't even started.

[Graham Stephan]

On the topic of AI, what are your top three most insane AI predictions?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That your grandkids will marry an AI human.

[Graham Stephan]

And what's your conviction level on that?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

100%.

[Graham Stephan]

That they're going to marry an AI.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Your grandchild is going to marry an AI human.

[Jack Selby]

So this is what we've been talking about. I think people are going to have relationships, fully AI, boyfriend, girlfriends. I think it's going to be indistinguishable.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Fox, right? The thing, like from that movie. You saw that. No, Netflix, like the AI Robo.

[Graham Stephan]

I talk about she or her or whatever.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Not that one. There was a Megan Fox one that just came out. Nonetheless, they're all the same. I believe a robot that is fully AI will marry a human and vice versa. For real. In your lifetime at scale.

[Graham Stephan]

And. And when you say an AI, does that mean like a physical body of a robot? So you're saying that the bodies will get so good that it will look like you. And like, I could.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I don't know if you know this, but people have sex with sex dolls. What?

[Jack Selby]

Jack does that. That explains what that thing is.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And obviously, like, that is, like super taboo. And it's 2025, and I. I'm not educated on it, though. I don't, like. I don't judge anyone who does. But my intuition is that in 20 years, because the AI can power the robot and because of where we're going and what's going on, that that's fully.

[Jack Selby]

See, I've said the same thing, because certain AIs people are getting really attached to them, just like typing back and forth.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But online dating is. That's the same. You know that, right?

[Jack Selby]

But I'm thinking, no, no.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

People fall in love on text. Like people on Tinder or Raya. After three hours of texting back and forth fall in love. Then the physical part happens.

[Jack Selby]

So what is this going to do to society if we're all just with.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Little robots, Society looks like right now to a caveman. If we dug up a caveman.

[Jack Selby]

But do you think this is just population collapse? That people are not going to reproduce?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Maybe, but probably not fully. Because everyone thinks an or just because I'm a robot doesn't mean I'm not willing to a human.

[Graham Stephan]

So you think.

[Jack Selby]

But if it's indisclue, I think it.

[Graham Stephan]

Will be non exclusive relationships. What you think it will be non exclusive relationships?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Actually, you know, it's funny, I've thought about this. I actually think AI robots may save marriages. Like I've been thinking about that a lot, which is like does a couple introduce just like real couples introduce swinging and another partner? Now is it even better to introduce an AI robot that may help whatever sexual or emotional things are going on in that relationship to become an offsetting contributor to America? One could argue this was going to be my second one that AI will be the reason marriage increases longevity and decreases divorce.

[Jack Selby]

I would almost argue that it would be the reason why people just wouldn't get married because you would just have this AI.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But it might be both. Both can exist in that scenario.

[Graham Stephan]

I feel like the word of the day is and and not a Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I would tell you that, you know, as people continue to dissect everybody, I have a feeling people will like I'm starting to learn. I figured out and I'm sure people that will are for whatever weird reason interested in dissecting me. Yes. And versus or is foundationally to why I'm happy and successful. Foundational. I actually can't see the word. I can't see the world in any other way. It's always. And everything to me is maybe yes and no. We're both vulnerabilities. You know that, Right? Right.

[Jack Selby]

I mean things are going to be absolutes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes and no are vulnerabilities. So if you start with something with an immediate yes or an immediate no, there's vulnerabilities I hate. No, because it's defense and cynicism. I kind of weirdly love. Yes, because it's optimism. But a lot of times it's delusional. Maybe is a great place to start everything.

[Jack Selby]

I just think this is going to lead to complete population collapse. That people are going to be more isolated than ever because they'll have an AI person that they could constantly be around that's going to be perfect for them.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What if we're the most isolated now and AI actually starts a decrease of isolation because you fully feel emotionally all the way there. Sure.

[Jack Selby]

But I think in terms of population collapse, Yeah. I think the government's going to have to come in and really incentivize that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Because it's already happened.

[Jack Selby]

Well, I. I think they have to offer. I think they have to offer bonuses for people to have children.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You're too smart. You already know that's true. That's already happened. That's what Korea is all doing right now.

[Jack Selby]

But to an extreme, here in the.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

United States, what are we protected from everything else? Of course that's what's gonna happen. Governments are gonna be fighting for people. Do you understand what's about to happen, Right? Governments are gonna be paying. I'm gonna get offered ungodly amounts of money to live somewhere else. You know that, right? Governments are fighting with each other for talent.

[Graham Stephan]

So what good will a human be, though, when we have AI that's better?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, I don't know if. I don't know if it'll be better. It'll be different. It's again, an and state. Like, I don't know if it's gonna be better, but like. Like a human will. Oh, like, our brains are pretty intense, bro. You know that, right? Like, our brains are legit. Like, we're gonna do other. Like when the tractor was invented, everyone's like, what are people gonna do? We all work on farms. We figured it out.

[Jack Selby]

You don't think this would be demotivating for people who could just plug into something, zone out, or be with an AI avatar or whatever and just be perfectly content sitting in the room all day?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think most people are doing that now in a different way, but to an extreme.

[Jack Selby]

But even more people, like, if someone's having an average Life going to a 9 to 5, but they could stay home and just be with this avatar, plug into this system that keeps them perfect.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Let's just play it out. Why is that bad? I'm like. Like, I'm not. I haven't thought it through. I'm actually just like, framing the banter.

[Jack Selby]

I would say that a large portion of society would be isolated in that regard. You have a few select people who don't want to go in that direction.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah.

[Jack Selby]

Running system.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think you're looking at way too surface level. Let's bring it up.

[Jack Selby]

Fair.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Isolated. If you're not feeling isolated. This was the argument of online dating. You're basically just doing a more mature argument of online dating, of why online dating was creepy and weird and not going to work. Yeah.

[Jack Selby]

The counter to that, though, is that you do have such a high percentage of people now under. It's like 30. Not leaving their parents, not meeting people, not doing anything. Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Hey, what the, bro? My argument. You're actually. You're actually countering your argument. You know that, right?

[Jack Selby]

How so?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

AI's not here that we're talking about.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah, but we're going in that direction.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

When it's here now, it's like, sure. I'm arguing that this might solve the problem we're in right now.

[Graham Stephan]

Graham, I think, is trying to say that it might exacerbate it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

He might be right. Yeah.

[Jack Selby]

I don't think it's to solve a problem. I think it's just going to make it worse.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think you're a pessimist.

[Jack Selby]

Okay. And.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And maybe practical and maybe cautious, maybe maybe not delusional. Let me say this, though. Humans are the most underestimated, underrated brand and entity in the world. Let me give you an example.

[Jack Selby]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Let's say this interesting conversation was in 1950 and we were talking about the atomic bomb. Just invented, just dropped. And now we know Russia has one too. I have a funny feeling if I sat here and said it will not be used for the next 70 years, that you would have taken the counter. Humans are underestimated, bro. That's what everyone who's listening, I'm telling you right now. Humans are underestimated. This AI is big. This last 10 minutes was super fun and like fun banter. We're all trying to think it through. I would say underestimating the human is a mistake. And I would say that for all the people like, what are you talking about, Gary Vee? It's now. I would say that you don't understand history. It is not now. You believe it's now because all of you have gotten sucked into listening to dumb.

[Graham Stephan]

What do you think are the main things that are holding people back right now? And if they could make these adaptations, they'd be able to unlock their full potential. You seem like a very.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I have a very good thought on this.

[Graham Stephan]

Sure.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Number 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 is the utter lack of accountability. What's going on right now, brother, has nothing to do with anything other than we've been over the coddled for 30 years. The end. You can do anything once you decide it's your fault. If you think it's your mommy and daddy's fault. That's what takes up the oxygen. You just spend all your time telling everybody about your mommy and daddy. If you think it's Trump or Biden or Putin or China. That's what you spend your time talking about. Everybody has become remarkable at pointing fingers. It has become a global pandemic.

[Jack Selby]

Why is that over?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Over coddling, Lack of accountability.

[Jack Selby]

Where do you think that started?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Overcorrection to a lot of parents that got under, loved, and overcorrected too far, and we lost our way.

[Jack Selby]

So you think the pendulum is swinging back to accountability?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, that is my great hope.

[Graham Stephan]

Okay.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I know. I do not feel like we're there right now, unfortunately. I feel like we're still in the very heavy mist of. I mean, we find so many things to blame on. Do you know that? No. Do you know that? I didn't even know I was in Gen X my whole life. We didn't talk about generations, like, give me hours. Gen Z talks about boomers.

[Jack Selby]

It's become a meme now, though.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

It's. We're just.

[Graham Stephan]

So is that creating just cages for ourselves, thinking that we have to subscribe to a certain thing?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Of course. But most of all, the ultimate cage is when you think somebody else is in control of your life, you're dead.

[Jack Selby]

But you know what? But people get rewarded for that online, and I feel like that's a slippery slope because when people post about themselves being a victim, they get so much support and so much sympathy.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Online.

[Jack Selby]

It feels good to post something you've.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes. Ish. You've lived through these last three years. The pendulum's swinging. They also get a ton of hate.

[Jack Selby]

I feel like it's. It's not balanced, though, in terms of the hate to love.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I feel like it's getting balanced. I feel like you're right three, four years ago. But I think changing, I think it.

[Graham Stephan]

Depends on the person in their audience, of course. Like, mostly, like, if you have, like, a girl that's crying, like, on a camera, and her audience is like 95% women, like all of the comments. But if it's a guy that's, like, opening up about something, I get it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But let's talk about this. That goes back to the point of how we got here. That girl didn't wake up at 23 looking for unlimited sympathy. She's yearning for how she was parented. She wants to be coddled. That guy wants to be coddled. We want to blame his fault, your fault, that fault, this fault, that generation's fault, that politician's fault, that government's fault. Fuck. California, New York, Trump, Biden, Florida, Texas, her. Like, everybody, like, where's this? But real quick, where's this? When somebody's upset today. Where is. I suck. And that's not the same as I suck. Let's go into depression. I'm talking about I'm accountable and capable. I don't like America. I can move to Costa Rica. I don't like my boss. I can quit. Oh, but Gary, I have a mortgage. Get out of it. Yeah, like we. You can do. You know that, right?

[Graham Stephan]

But that's also purposely and consciously subscribing to mild delusion because there are certain things that happen to certain people that is not. That is not their fault.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, no, no, no, no, no. Is it important, by the way, people, somebody just died of a stroke. It's not his fault. That.

[Graham Stephan]

So it's important to delineate what I'm trying to get at between fault and responsibility.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, no. I don't care about the semantics to your point. Fair. But let's go to where I'm trying to go, which is okay. Something happened to you. You don't have a lot of money saved up. A rock bounced on the highway and smattered your windshield, and now you have to fix it. That. What? You know, I guess you could say I should have left my house earlier or later and the rock wouldn't be there. It's not. Not the ridiculousness. I'm looking forward to it. I'm asking, like, what do you do about it now? Everything is about what you do about it. Could that person go on Craigslist and pick up on the free listings and sell it at the flea market this Saturday and make 320 bucks? They could. They could. They don't have to. Could that person ring the doorbell of his neighbor and say, hey, you always talked about my garden being awesome. Your garden. I'd like to do your garden for the next four months, but I want 300 bucks for it because my windshield just broke. Would you like to do that? They could. Like, like happens all the time, how you react to shit. All that life is all life is, is happening all the time. There is nothing else. The only thing that happens in life is happening all the time. What I'm interested in is what do you do about it? Is your life perfect?

[Graham Stephan]

I think I have a pretty good life.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Guess what? Bad news. Something's gonna happen. That's life. You're not gonna be the one that goes through life without pain or struggle or micro issues. When you answer like that, here's where I go. That's awesome. That made my heart smile. Now, what I wanna say to you, if you were my younger brother, is Broken. Do not complain one day if that's your truth, not one complaint out of your mouth. Because in the macro so good, you're one of the few people on earth that gets to say that. Two be mentally prepared. And let's start thinking about that for when it doesn't. Because a lot of people that are only accustomed to being good or get addicted to being good when they get caught with bad don't have the backbone to take the punch in the face. And that's when the starts to get bad. Right? Those are the things I like to start thinking about.

[Graham Stephan]

So if you could say one thing that would make the biggest splash. The people listening right now that think that they don't have control over their own life or that they have found themselves disagreeing or subconsciously they're disagreeing, they just don't consciously know it. What could you say to make the biggest splash, the biggest impact to wake them up?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

There's so many different places I go. One, a part of me goes into a really deep tough love place of like, cool you. I don't give a. Like, what the do you want from me? Like, I'm desperately trying to tell you in life, you find what you're looking for. And if you're looking for good, it's good. And if you're looking for bad, it's bad. And what do you want? What do you want from me? Humans sitting over here, like, I don't need to convince you. You want to have a life. You have a life. There's that part. Then there's the compassionate part, which is like, bro, please, like, you have one life. The math around having a life is 400 trillion to 1 you1 already. You actually won no matter how. Alcoholic, abusive father, sexual abuse, like, like, where do you want to go? Third world country? Like, where do you want to go? You still can actually, like, you still have a shot. You could have not been born. Like, you have a shot. They give a shot. You know, the sports fan. How many times do you want to watch a game? Look at what the Pacers did to the Bucks the other the game was over, but it wasn't. Like, you could suck in life. You could be 53 right now and be a loser and dominate from 60 to 80. Enjoy it. You could, like, it's never over. Like, I don't know. There's a lot of versions to your question. I don't know which one's gonna work for someone. That's why I use them all. I've got nothing but compassion to hard Like, I'm trying, I'm throwing out. Why do you think I make so much content? I'm desperate out here to make everybody understand. Please, for the love of God. Because deep down, what do you want from all of us? I don't judge you, but I can't change you either. Yeah, that was. That felt good. I've never said that. That's me. I don't judge you. I really don't. Because I know people have different circumstances, luck of the draw, all that stuff, but I can't change you. You have to change you.

[Graham Stephan]

You're way more impressive than I. And I'm not just saying that. I'm not just saying that. And I don't say that usually, like, almost ever on the podcast. But I had high expectations. And first of all, this entire unit, whatever you call this floor, is incredible.

[Jack Selby]

Oh, my God.

[Graham Stephan]

But also, you're way, like, sharper and just. Maybe it's because you took that break, but I don't know.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I don't think so. I think. I think we talk about this a lot. Like, I sandbag it a little bit publicly. In. In hindsight, like, what am I gonna say? I'm smart, I'm sharp. Like, I'm obsessed with value for the audience. But to your point, like, this is nothing. You should, like, you live here for a month, you'd be like, holy. Like, I'm. I'm. Don't forget I did it and then talked about it and continue to do it. So thank you for that. That means a lot to me. And again, the reason I like dealing with my compliments is again, that just my mom's 70th birthday is this weekend. Like, I can't wait to tell her what you just said because it's gonna make her happy. Because I'm her product.

[Graham Stephan]

Well, shout out Gary's mom.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, tomorrow.

[Graham Stephan]

Okay, so we got some rapid fire questions. What's something you hate that everyone else seems to love? This could be anything.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Complaining.

[Jack Selby]

Okay, okay, That's a good answer.

[Graham Stephan]

Dialed answer. If you could have a 30 minute conversation with any entrepreneur from history, who would you pick?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's a great question. Who would I pick? I would pick Walt Disney.

[Graham Stephan]

You get 10 million tax free today. But you can't invest it or use it for business. You just have to spend it on fun. What do you buy?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, no, it's cool. I Love that question. 10 million for fun or do? I would probably courtside MBA. Like real exports is going to be way up there. I do like restaurants, so I'd probably Like, and wine. So I'd probably go super hardcore on. It's less about going to, like, travel. It'd be travel for purpose around food. So I would say very ridiculous meals. Fun. I mean, I would give away. I would love the feeling of giving away loads of cash at scale in like, fun environments. Not like the stuff we see, like the influencers do. More like I would go to like Peru and give somebody really, like $30,000 where that's like 4 trillion. So some of that stuff would be really enjoyable with the cash.

[Graham Stephan]

What's one guilty pleasure you have that would surprise people?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That would surprise most of my silly stuff. I've shared a lot. Guilty pressure. That's my people surprise. I'm not a very big guilty pleasure person. Like, I have an incred. Like, it's funny. My fiance Mona is such a clean eater. But I think people know that I'm like, willing to, like, eat 13 Snickers bars if I have. Those are great though, what you call it some obsessed with what I got one. But it's not a surprise, which is why I'm probably. I'm obsessed with cereal. But weird ones, like, I'm huge on Captain Crunch.

[Graham Stephan]

Captain Crunch is the best.

[Jack Selby]

Mr. Beast should have a cereal.

[Graham Stephan]

Captain Crunch is the best.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

But the other favorite cereal I have is Grape Nuts, which is completely different.

[Graham Stephan]

I've heard of that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, look, I'll check it out.

[Graham Stephan]

Would you rather own the New York jets but never see them win a Super bowl or see them win super bowl but never own them?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And not. And not even close. By the way, chasing the jets is my great love. Actually owning them. I'm neutral about winning a Super bowl is everything to me. Winning and not owning.

[Graham Stephan]

Why do you do this?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Because my mom knitted me a jersey, a Jets jersey, when we were really poor with the number five on it. When all my friends in the neighborhood had a jersey and I asked for one, but we couldn't buy one because we didn't have that kind of money. 25 bucks on a jersey was not in the cards. So at night while we were sleeping, my mom knitted me a jersey. It's the pinned Instagram that I have that if you go to my Instagram, it's pinned to the top. Why I want to actually buy the jets has a lot to do with why I want to buy them. And every time I take a photo, I just want to pay an homage to my mom. Cool.

[Graham Stephan]

Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of the GaryVee audio experience. We will see you again on Wednesday with an all new episode.