← The GaryVee Audio Experience
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- [00:00]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Podcast nation. Before I get you into today's podcast, big announcement. As you probably heard at this point, because I had John from Stan on the show, I am an investor advisor to an incredible startup called Stan. Stan Store. I'm sending you right now to Gary V.comGaryVee.com Stan go check this out. We've done a GaryVee Stan store challenge, which actually has a weekly call with me. This is built for everyone who's been affected honestly by my overall content. The tech stack, all these features and the minimal costs per month that Stan Store has built is really the tool that was needed for this world that I envisioned when I wrote Crush it, when I wrote Crushing It. And this overall thing I'm thinking a lot about lately, which is the individual empire, right? This creator, entrepreneur, entrepreneur, creator economy that I think is going to eat up the oxygen. Very honestly, the thing that so many of you want in your life and the reason so many of you are not there yet is you've got the strategy for me. You've got the ambition within yourself, but you don't have the tools for you to fully maximize it. And I believe you can find that at Stan Store. Stan Store. But specifically I want you to sign up for it through my challenge because I want to get access with you. And plus there's a bunch of cool things. So if you want to go see those cool things, go to garyvee.com Stan S T A N Now to the podcast. This is the GaryVee audio experience. You know, like being a thought leader is crippling to people because they think they have to be a leader. I think it's being a thought contributor, right? So the reason I hate when people are like, oh, you have to be a thought leader. I'm like, no, you don't. You have to be a thought contributor. Now, at its worst is what we see on social media every day, which is people pontificate as keyboard warriors about shit they don't know. At best, I think it's all of us being very self aware and deploying what we know. This portion is like with me. So I think this is when you need to get selfish. Like you need to ask your question. Hiring is guessing, Firing is knowing. Like you gotta go fast. That's how you get shit done. That's how you figure stuff out. This is the television and the television is the radio. So four he's butterflies.
- [02:21]
Katie
My first question is how do I gain the trust with ad agencies or.
- [02:25]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Anything if I'm not actually producing the content? I'M more so like the project manager, account manager by reverse engineering what they value. So you may not be able to for some shops. For other shops, just getting the volume of output at a cost that allows them to make margin is what they care about. I think one of the. Yeah, so I think what you need to do is make sure this will play for several people in the room. I think one of the biggest mistakes that companies make in agency, landscape and SaaS products is wasting time on selling to the unsellable. I'm just fascinated by people's ideology that they want this customer, as if that customer is any more valuable than the other person that pays 6.99amonth because they made it emotional. To me, the best way to sell something is to be unemotional and go fast. And so there will be many people that don't want to do business with you because of that and there will be many people that don't give a shit. What you need to do is spend as little time trying to convince and as much time as you can finding the ones that are aligned. Yep, okay, makes sense. Yeah, totally. I'll let you sneak one more in because it was quick. Yeah, please. And then we'll get the third. If we're going to try to go around as many times as we can.
- [03:49]
Katie
Pretty much, I guess. Again, me just now starting out, how do you approach people trying to share.
- [03:55]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Your post or leave a comment, you.
- [03:58]
Katie
Know, and that type of thing.
- [03:59]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Like do you approach friends and friends.
- [04:01]
Katie
Share or is it you're trying to get your target audience?
- [04:06]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know, I think there's a lot in different points of view and you know, obviously there's a platform being built just down the table to like help scale. But you know, to me, the thing that we'll spend time on when I get to her is like, I don't think all posts are created equal. And so to me you have to be agenda driven. So for me, I think it's more about you joining Facebook groups, you creating LinkedIn creative, which I think will work for a lot of you, and then target with ad spend against agencies and you replying thoughtfully. You know, you should map every single CEO that is a creative shop that you want to do business with, follow her or him on every platform, and then thoughtfully leave a comment of two to three sentences to every post. I genuinely believe depth wins the social game, not width. And I think everyone's buying into width. So for me, I think that's how you do it. Okay. I think you create your best thoughts and put them out. And I think you community manage, AKA leave creative comments on things that you think resonate in your world. Okay, cool. I apologize real quick. I'll give you an example. Just leaving some thoughtful point of view on photography under the creative lead of a 15 person agency in Dallas leads to business development for you. Because she sees that and she's like, who's this woman? You know, are you without other people.
- [05:31]
Katie
That follow her and see it in the comments?
- [05:33]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Cool. But where everybody up, in my opinion is they go for scale, not depth. So, like, I see a lot of people buying automation tools to like people's posts just because they think that gets them awareness. Like a lot of short tactics that are good for vanity metrics for five minutes but terrible for business. Okay.
- [05:53]
Katie
So one thing we've been into in the art industry is people are pretty kind of cagey with saying that they're using a certain product or, you know, they want to keep everything close to the best. And. But we found referrals, word of mouth and people asking who our other users are to be the fastest sales.
- [06:16]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Okay, so. So kind of I would turn that into creative and pump the living shit out of that on LinkedIn, you know, what's that?
- [06:26]
Katie
Well, I just, as far as like writing articles.
- [06:29]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yep. Audio. Yep. Video. Yep. You know, like, I think, you know, one of the things. So for example, I think, and this is really a fun time to say it because it's two posts ago or three now, if you look at my Instagram, there's a cartoon right now. My cartoons or comics or whatever you want to call them have done quite well. Ironically, the one that's posted three posts ago is one of my least performing posts in a long, long time. Which is perfect because it lets me make my point. The answer is yes to everything. Which is why no matter what you were going to say, I was going to say yes and I was going to do what I just did. Because the reality is that people consume content differently. And so the number one goal you have is to eliminate friction for the person you're trying to sell to at scale. LinkedIn, which is something I didn't talk about at all until like 18 months or 12 months ago. The reason it's coming so much out of my mouth right now is it's the first platform since Facebook that has so much organic scale. Like you have no brand, you've done nothing. And you can literally write an article about why you think Boca is a good market to invest in, why you're somebody good to Invest in. Why the Boca School? My recommendation, think like a publisher, not like a self selfish salesperson. Why the Boca School system is up and coming. Because you know, whatever it may be, that post for you with no presence on LinkedIn is going to be seen by way more people than you could ever imagine. There is no platform right now that gives free organic reach with no paid support even remotely close to face to LinkedIn. And even the fact that I almost just said Facebook was really interesting to me as an insight because it was the only other place it used to be. Search on Google. Like if this was a meeting in 1999, I would be yelling at all of you be like, okay, so there's this new thing called SEO and you have to figure out how to be number one on it. Fuck the yellow Pages. Like you know, it's all been one game of that. Where can you get the most awareness for the least LinkedIn. It's really uncomfortable now for you. You're so specific that I would actually spend the ad money to target people in the art business and all of you can do that. The ads are a little more expensive on LinkedIn, but they're stunningly targeted. What I like is you've already figured out what works. Some of us don't know yet. Now you turn those testimonials into creative, but find a way to make the testimonial feel less like an infomercial at night. So you have to be. I'll give you a great example. I am going to give you this one. I think this would kill. Get five of them, three of them in literally radical candor email and be like, hey, we're about to do some LinkedIn content. But instead of asking you to do a video for me testimonial, I'd like to invite you and four of my other high quality clients to dinner. We're just, I want to buy you a nice dinner. We're going to have some nice bottles of wine and we're going to talk about the art industry as a whole. And I'm gonna film it and then do chop ups and then put it on LinkedIn. Right? Then as the hostess, you'll talk about macro, but you'll find ways to integrate things about your business which inevitably will lead to some great quote. You know, Johnny says, ah, fuck yeah, we used to fuck that up before you got it. So what I'm very good at. And actually this is very meta. This right now is more for the content than what you're paying our company to be here just Is this is not especially running it through Vayner and all the overhead, not the best use of my time financially. It's. I want the questions and the content. If you look at how much of the content. But putting out the last year is from 4Ds. This puts me in a good position to create a new idea. The flub up of LinkedIn and Facebook. Dustin can now quote and that could be a 2 million viewed because that's an interesting piece of content. Right. I looked at him earlier when I said something to you I can't remember, like the depth, width thing, you know, so even like literally the advice I'm giving you, I'm living in the meta right now. Create environments this can lead to. By the way, this could lead to why you would do an exhibit at your best friend's gallery about your product. Strictly about the subject of the business of art. But you're filming it. Boom. Got it. Yeah, it's really interesting. I want to get everybody to think like a publisher. I need to make you think like art magazine, like Real Estate Investment Monthly. Right. Like Vogue, not like the company you are. Because then you go from a commercial to quality content that actually people want. And then if I tell you where to put it, that's underpriced. That's the story of my life. That's who I am. That's how I got here. Bring value and figure out where it's underpriced. So you get the maximum amount of brand equity from. This LinkedIn thing is a dream because it's a business context world, but it's acting like Facebook and everybody's being successful. It's crazy. I'm getting emails. It reminds me of early. It definitely will work. So that's what I would do. Plus then you're also doing retention. You're buying a nice dinner. Right. You're doing like. You're winning on so many fronts. You know, like people don't do a good job with farming. They do a good job with hunting more customers. More customers. But they don't do a good enough job saying thank you to the ones they got.
- [12:04]
Nick
So as I mentioned before, my company is basically in the infancy and I'm trying to just, you know, get my coat in the water. So my first question, I guess is, you know, where would you start if you were me?
- [12:22]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And this is the concept of not wanting to be at the mercy of brokers selling your properties.
- [12:28]
Nick
Selling my property, but also leasing the.
- [12:33]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Space or from a commercial standpoint.
- [12:35]
Nick
Yeah.
- [12:38]
Gary Vaynerchuk
But this is strictly on that side of it. Right. This is not to raise capital from investors.
- [12:42]
Nick
So basically my plan is to do a couple deals and then raise money.
- [12:47]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Understood. And you have some inventory?
- [12:52]
Nick
Yeah, I have about 300,000 square feet.
- [12:55]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Of office space in Boca and Jersey.
- [12:58]
Nick
Yeah.
- [12:58]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Understood. And so to me, I think you're barking up a really interesting tree. And it's something I think a lot about because I think it's quite a lucrative space because there's so much margin being made by the brokers and there's no innovation being done by the developers. I started giving you previews of it. Couple things based on that square footage. First, you have to reverse engineer who's likely to rent from you. So is this localized or is this at such scale that we're looking for national players?
- [13:33]
Nick
So they're basically different kind of buildings. The one has got 20,000 square foot, you know, floor plans where I have like GEICO and big institutional, where I still would think it's local, at least to Central Jersey, they go to South Plainfield or towns in the neighboring area, but it's pretty localized. And then Boca is the opposite. I have like 60 small offices from 500 to maybe 3,000 max, 4,000 max. And so they're local business owners.
- [14:11]
Gary Vaynerchuk
So there's two ways for everybody to go here, and it's a good time to put it into play. We've gone down the path of more of content. As a publisher, you either want to become the magazine or the guy or gal they put on the front of the magazine. Right? And if you think about it, that's what I've done both of right for my companies, we're the magazine. For me, Gary Vee, I'm the one on the COVID You know, you're a reserved dude, but I never think that that's a prerequisite to building a personal brand. My biggest fear is that I build, I believe, building personal brand, which I view as not charlatan, but more like having a reputation in 1947. I always worry that if I'm the messenger of that advice that people think that they should do it the way I do it, which is very hyperbola. My energy is pretty over the top. That's my natural energy when I'm on camera or on stage. But I think that you have to make a decision of one or the other or both. And by the way, that goes for both of you as well. You know, like being a thought leader is crippling to people because they think they have to be a leader. I think it's Being a thought contributor. Right. So the reason I hate when people are like, oh, you have to be a thought leader. I'm like, no, you don't. You have to be a thought contributor. Now at its worst is what we see on social media every day, which is people pontificate as keyboard warriors about shit they don't know. At best, I think it's all of us being very self aware and deploying what we know. Right, so you're a young. Is this, is this a business you start as a family business? This is. What is this?
- [15:43]
Nick
Yeah, so it started as a family business and basically I just spun off on my own.
- [15:50]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Understood. So like that's was my intuition, given the scale or some other unusual reasoning. That's a huge advantage for you. You get to. Right. And so you get to lean in and say, look, this is, this is, you know, like, I think that's an incredible thing to like, like lean into. Which is you have something I had at 28, which is at 28 years old, I knew everything about the wine and spirits business. Cause I've been doing it Since I was 14 and I was doing it passionately. And I gave up school and social life to be the best at it. And so by the time I was 28, I was fucking. By the time I was 28, I was done. Actually I'd achieved what I set out to do at 22. I built one of the largest independent stores, I built a big business for my dad and I was ready to kind of actually start transitioning into something else. That's why wine library TV and all this other stuff started happening, which led to the GaryVee that we know today. And so I think that's an incredible place for you to play. But you have to be self aware and you don't have to build a personal brand if we're gonna build it through the company's name. Cause you're more comfortable with that then I think you need to produce a show or content. Either a running podcast, which again doesn't even have to be you, preferably you. Because when you lose the star, that's a problem. I think it's a has. So I'm a very big so bokeh I'm very interested in. I'll tell you why. I think if you started a podcast called the Boca Small Business Forum, you would crush you. This is something my t. Everybody I know, Nick and I know you guys have heard this multiple times. The high school party concept, which is if you host it, you have the leverage. So I was always fascinated. Alan Shuttlebauer, big shout out. Alan did it in my high school. Took advantage of his parents not being around, threw the parties, went from a C plus. He was biased when he first came, but went right to an A popularity because he hosted the party again, whether it's you or some other way you do it, if you have the Boca Business podcast and you now are inviting other businesses, like the queen bee that's been here for 54 years is the baker or the real estate agent or whoever, right? The guy who's got the sailing company, like, you host the party, within five, six months, you have the podcast that every SMB in Boca is listening to, aspiring to be on. But what it really becomes is a gateway drug to you leasing out your space. You don't have to mention it once. And you'll lease it out. Yeah, you don't have to mention it once. They're just gonna be like, who is that kid? Oh, he owns a lot. You know, like it's. So I always tell people, let your profile do your selling. Put out a lot of value in your content. If people like it, they're gonna click your URL in your Instagram. Let your profile do your selling. So I think those are the themes that I'm thinking.
- [18:39]
Nick
Platform you suggest.
- [18:41]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I love the idea you guys haven't done the personal brand part yet. The like the content tree. So like, I will push everybody to podcasts like you would not believe. Even more than video, because I think video is a bigger mental and infrastructural jump for many. I love podcasts because of the following. You do a podcast, you film the podcast, which gives you video. You get the guest's audience when they're a guest because they're going to promote it, bringing you awareness. I'm obsessed.
- [19:12]
Nick
And so how, how would you come up with content for this interview?
- [19:16]
Gary Vaynerchuk
That's the best part. I'm good at what I do and do something. Almost. No. If you look at the top 100 podcasts outside of like shows that are scripted, like serial, the amount of individual humans who have a podcast where they don't interview somebody in the top 500 is almost non existent. It's like me and I don't. I haven't done enough homework. But like, maybe just not a lot. I'm trying to think who does a straight talking, no other guest. I don't know. Nonetheless, podcasts are fucking layup. Especially if you go my route and level up and make it broader. The Boca Business Podcast, the first person can be the fucking third generational guy who's 58, who owns the boat company in town that's been crushing for years. And when you email him on LinkedIn or his email and say, hey, John, do you want to be the first guest on the Boca business podcast? The answer is yes, because John's not being asked by anybody to be on a podcast. Got it? And then literally, the content's a piece of cakes. So, John, tell us about how you got started. So, John, what's happening now? How's Boca changed in the last, like, you're fucking 40 minutes done before you even started asking four questions and going to sleep.
- [20:29]
Nick
Yeah. So what do you think, you know, like, about maybe expanding it to, like, Palm beach county so that we have.
- [20:37]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yep. To be frank, depending on your ambitions and skill set, make it Florida.
- [20:45]
Nick
Yeah, South Florida.
- [20:47]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I'll push you to America. I just need to know what your ambitions and capabilities are. Does that make sense?
- [20:53]
Nick
Yeah.
- [20:53]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I love hyperlocal because I think it creates depth of results in a very narrow place. But I love national. If you've got the fucking juice, go. You know?
- [21:05]
Nick
Yeah.
- [21:05]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Then you put the podcast in all the platforms, which is very easy. You can Google it or we can tell you that's just like Record, Upload, Spotify, SoundCloud, you know, iTunes, you know, Stitcher. But then if you record it. And let's get it straight here, for the first eight years of my career, I didn't have a team. So the way I would have done it is like. Like I would have had my iPhone on the table and recorded it and then literally posted the raw fucking video on LinkedIn. So, like, you know, people, again, being the messenger of a lot of these. A lot of these things right now scares me because I have a level of notoriety now, leverage, infrastructure. But I got here by doing what I'm telling you to do.
- [21:45]
Katie
So in another life, I was a rock and roll DJ.
- [21:48]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Amazing.
- [21:48]
Katie
My last gig was broadcasting to 20 million listeners a day for XM.
- [21:51]
Gary Vaynerchuk
That's crazy.
- [21:52]
Katie
So I have some of that in you.
- [21:56]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah, that's good. I mean, look, that's as, you know, like, to me, I hope people don't shy away from that. You should triple down on that. It's the top of the funnel. Good.
- [22:06]
Katie
Whether it's pitching or rush spring or interviews, we do it good. Which is great. Like, my team calls me Katie Gayly from lately. Like a little bit bruh. Okay. So I have a couple of questions and may do. One is short this week.
- [22:20]
Gary Vaynerchuk
No worries.
- [22:21]
Katie
We're One there, but one is I do a video of the day that in addition to other videoing. This is a minute long roughly. And it goes to our Facebook profile mostly exclusively, sometimes elsewhere. It's just me holding my phone and I say it's a day in the life the startup entrepreneur love. And I share whatever. Yeah.
- [22:39]
Gary Vaynerchuk
So there was a vaynermedia.
- [22:40]
Katie
Yeah, exactly. And it's usually some kind of real deep insight. So one of the things that I love about radio and this podcast is the pulling back the black curtain and giving people like that access to. That's where the theater of the mind comes into me. Of course, I'd been in a million green rooms, so. Right. I like that. And I've learned that my audience like that as well. So we use that video to give people that behind the scenes look of like what it's like. And it's, you know, female entrepreneurship is hot.
- [23:03]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Of course. Of course. Which is great.
- [23:05]
Katie
And so we sometimes put it on Instagram once in a while if it's super short on Twitter. But I'm thinking about LinkedIn. Of course.
- [23:13]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You have to put it everywhere. You know that, right?
- [23:14]
Katie
Well, the LinkedIn is. We haven't.
- [23:16]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Because I'm concerned you have to put it everywhere, contextually post produced for everywhere.
- [23:20]
Katie
So let me. Yes. And here's why I have my dings in this of what I want to ask. Because it's sometimes it's not very investor friendly. Because sometimes I'm really honest. That's where they all are.
- [23:31]
Gary Vaynerchuk
No, just do it. Yeah. That to me is like cool. First of all, let me give you great advice. Any investor that won't want to invest in you because it's not investor friendly is not somebody you would have won with anyway. It's not your DNA. It's like me thinking about that shit. Got it. Just put it out there. You want to hear something even better? It's going to help you. What it's going to actually do is keep those investors away, which is going to save you three to eight bullshit meetings that are going to cost you time in the future. It's probably going to make the investor that you actually want come to you instead of you going to her or him. You understand? Yes. This is a big game of wanting no's. And that's where everyone's getting confused. Think about what I'm doing. I'm super not friendly to a lot of things too. Patriot fans don't want to work with me. You know, people that don't like cursing, you know, so it really will help you. You're welcome.
- [24:27]
Nick
So first question.
- [24:29]
Gary Vaynerchuk
So the construction industry is rather behind.
- [24:31]
Nick
On when it comes to technology.
- [24:34]
Gary Vaynerchuk
That's your advantage. Yeah. So. So how do we sell to the companies and you know, similar to what I gave her companies, the Relateds, the.
- [24:45]
Nick
Skanskas, the, you know.
- [24:47]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Well, those companies, you know, because I know with Related they're super sophisticated. Oh yeah. So they're not behind, you know, they'll be like to me, the biggest companies will judge you on merit. Like what are they using Alternatively, whether there's a direct competitor or not. Is there a legacy tech competitor which everybody deals with or like we did with Resy with OpenTable. Right. We just had a really big exit to American Express. Big win for us. We had to deal with OpenTable. There was a legacy and that was bad. Restaurants were further along, had infrastructure. But we innovated and made a better product. Other things, Buddy media, right back to your world. Like an investment that I did well with. I gave a quote to and got a lot of shares and did extremely well. Mike Lazzaro won because it was first but he got a lot of no's. Like Vayner. Vayner got an ungodly amount of no's 2009-2014 just because people didn't even believe in social. Now they believe in it, but they try to look at it and they look at it in different ways. And our nos come from the way they look at it. Not don't believe in it at all. Related and others are sophisticated enough to know if there is technology. Is an Excel sheet and a piece of paper better than paying you or are you perfect? I think the long tail is where it gets a little bit more interesting, where there is pushback.
- [26:20]
Nick
Because a lot of, you know, like.
- [26:22]
Gary Vaynerchuk
A lot of the people that are in the fields are old school and they like to do things the old school way and you know, they don't even if the technology is good, they're just stubborn and don't want to use it. It's the story of human beings. Every industry has that. My dad didn't take credit cards or have a computerized register when I first started.
- [26:46]
Nick
I use it.
- [26:50]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know. Right. You have to have patience for the 28 year olds to take control or you need to be smart and not bang your head against the steel pillar. To the people that won't say no and find the five what I'd be looking for. I would do homework on this. If I was your partner. I'd be like, okay, sales Plan. Hey, you know, because I'd come in and I don't know anything. I'd be like, hey, can we get somebody to get a list of every family, family centric, you know, organization that already now has the daughter or son that's under 40 in the business? Give me that list. I'd be like, okay, that right? Then I would look at that list and be like, okay, in order of size or close to us. I'm like, all right, let's go tell them Martinis. Because Sarah Martinis now in the business. She's 29. We've done the intel. She's worked there. She left. She went to business school. She came back to the family business. She's there. She inevitably is going to be more open to this conversation. The end.
- [27:49]
Katie
And they're all named and sons.
- [27:52]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Right? I met one and daughters the other day. Good company. Yeah, it was awesome. Old school. Dude and three daughters. They're fucking. I was like, literally, my first piece of advice was them was like, you need a show on Bravo. Fuck the construction company.
- [28:08]
Nick
And you would put content.
- [28:10]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Like, what kind of content? I would make money. No. Yes. But I would make jokes, make it comedic and funny. I have found a lot of success in areas that are more like what? I come. I come from the liquor business. I come from the construction business. We just didn't build things. We sold liquor. It was that. And I think one of the fun things about those real old school businesses is jokes. Like, I would probably. I'd never give this advice, but I'm giving it to you. I'd probably get some, you know, NYU actors and actresses and literally reenact scenes from the field that are just cliche that could go viral within the community. It's funny. I got really upset the other day at the airport because somebody was being really rude to an airline employee. And just, you know, sometimes things click. And I made this video super narrow. I go pretty general with my content these days, but it was like airline employee stuff. So we posted it, we did whatever. It did fine. I think pretty solid, actually, for narrow ransom ads against employees of that world. Because I can tell you right now, I ran through LAX yesterday and fucking was like, put on. Like, I. I think I could, like. It was unbelievable. Like, 20 different airline employees were like, oh, thank you so much. It, like, penetrated the subculture. So I think could have. You're one funny video away from cliche. All of us are picturing the guys in the video now doing some dumb shit on a piece of paper. The wind comes along and takes the paper, like just literally reenact or do it in cartoon form. I think it would work. Facebook will work for you because that community's on that platform, right?
- [29:51]
Nick
Because I was thinking about maybe possibly putting out like some nostalgic type content.
- [29:56]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Where, you know, it kind of hits to the old timers who think of structure. I actually think the old timers, I think the old timers are your problem. I think you're making content for 28 year old Sally and for the decision makers in comedic form and information form. Save money, save time. They know that the 32 year old CFO and now all these companies or accountant, you know, they know they just don't have the leverage to make the move you need to. But they're, but they make the call. Like ultimately in these cliche examples, you know, Junior sons makes the call, you're not going to win fucking 63 year old Sal ever because they're not going to change. Fuck you, computer. That's all bullshit. You see these hands, right? You know, you know, I'm telling you right now, it's advice I've been giving for the last couple years. I get more emails about don't sell to the unsellable and how it changed a business that was doing 2 million a year for 14 fucking years and now they're doing 5 because they stopped beating their fucking head against things that aren't going to happen. It's friction. Especially when it goes that old school because we're now into what I call religion. It's an emotional decision. They don't understand it. They got four more years into retirement and I'm not gonna deal with that. I don't use. I barely know how to use my phone. Get out of here. You're gonna make me use this. So target the people that are coming. By the time I figure out how to use it, I'll be slow, right? You say it's gonna save me time. No, it's not. I don't understand how to use this. I can give you it all because I live it, I see it.
- [31:38]
Katie
And not just the people who are coming in though, because you learn this is the people who can say, dad, Elmos, we have to go. Because if it's just a kid I'm not going to listen to.
- [31:49]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah, and 8 out of 10 times they don't even listen to the smart kid. Back to beating your head. Once I found out Sarah's in the business, you go and have that meeting and you figure out real quick that Sarah has no say you're out. And Sarah has no say. 8 out of 10 times. So like you're dealing with a very small window. The biggest boys and girls and then family dynamics where you get lucky. Two out of ten times. That's it. That's your business, which is great. If you actually know that and focus on that, you can build a real business. And the main platforms, you'd say Facebook, LinkedIn. Facebook will really work for the community. You might want to start a Facebook group of construction companies. I'm very hot on Facebook groups. That's what Facebook proper is becoming. So starting a group and maybe again, notice where I'm about to go. Similar to what I gave you, make it the Northeast Construction Consortium. That's the name of it. Here's where we talk about modernizing our industry. See where I'm going? All of a sudden you're like on a nonprofit, not your own business. And then if you don't spam them with like, oh, the only reason you want to be in this group is to pitch your shit. They're gonna find, I'm telling you right now, they will bring value. They will find you.
- [33:04]
Nick
Because that's what I don't want to do. I don't want to be like pushy morph is push.
- [33:08]
Gary Vaynerchuk
What if the people that they're doing.
- [33:10]
Katie
The projects for are the pushy ones? They're forcing their construction guys to use this app because it's saving them time and therefore saving them time on projects.
- [33:20]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Right. But I would rather them do that, not be the one that's, you know.
- [33:24]
Katie
So then you get the people, the projects, the real estate people, the developers, the incentives that, hey, this is going to save you time, force your construction guys to use it.
- [33:35]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You can definitely sell through that channel. Thank you. You're welcome.
- [33:42]
Katie
Also being in a dual sided marketplace and our audiences are very different in what value props resonate with them. So in thinking about creating content, is it creating content for each of these or finding a common thread that can.
- [33:56]
Gary Vaynerchuk
There's no common thread between Republicans and Democrats right now. And that's what you have in a two way drivers of Uber. And Uber drivers don't have a common thread from Uber.
- [34:07]
Katie
So, you know, and so sorry to get more specific on the business side, someone who's like an enterprise account, like an Aramark or a Sodexo HRSA caterer have really different needs and their value props resonate really different. Correct them. So if we have, you know, like 10 of them, is it creating different content for each level?
- [34:28]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes.
- [34:28]
Katie
And from Everything from long form through our app content is going to be different.
- [34:33]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes. And the way you target the ads and inevitably where some things over resonate. So for example, your Instagram strategy is going to resonate much more with the caterers because they themselves are trying to market on that platform. Whereas the only place place you can get airmark is on LinkedIn. Or if you decide to go the route of building the food services number one internal B2B podcast. And again, this is why this is such a home run. You. You start the food services podcast, literally, and you email the airmark cmo and she's saying, yes. It's crazy. I can't. I'm gonna say this is why I like the high school party analogy, because inevitably two out of every three people went to a high school where somebody who wasn't the most popular kid junior year became the person that hosted the party and became a lot more popular. It's just something you can understand like, oh my God, that's right. Ricky did that. And that's the same thing as like, you can't get in the door at the number five at some of these conglomerates. But then you email cold on LinkedIn, the number one CEO and their press person or comms person's like, oh, yeah, we want him on more podcasts. And then when it's a literal Florida, you know, that's why, I mean, we have a podcast show in the gallery media group called the CMO podcast. Just so CMOs keep running through our doors. So I'm eating the food I'm putting down.
- [36:03]
Katie
Awesome. And yeah, there's like not a space that they're all gathering to have those discussions. So we just create that.
- [36:09]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You mean in the individual cohorts.
- [36:12]
Katie
Yeah, or as a group even. Because like event planners and all of that.
- [36:16]
Gary Vaynerchuk
It's that group. But that's different than. Exactly. Yeah. Do not mix them. It won't work. It there is. If you look at the dynamics of groups or forums or communities, like, it needs to be specific.
- [36:31]
Katie
Yeah.
- [36:32]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Personally, it's why so many people are confused by what they don't understand. What I do with my content, where I do garage selling and wine and entrepreneurship. They think that that's contradictory to the advice I'm giving as a human. It's your strength. As a company, it's your weakness.
- [36:50]
Nick
I have a family business question. My parents own a wholesale cookie company in Mass. I showed them your 4Ds where you were talking to someone in real estate. And aside from the swearing, they were like, Cool. High school party.
- [37:06]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Cool.
- [37:07]
Nick
Like let's go record a softball game or something locally. But we don't have the manpower.
- [37:11]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Blah blah, blah.
- [37:12]
Nick
We tried E commerce and it was great for data on like where in the country people liked the cookies. But shipping was a problem because the cookies kept breaking. We get accounts and they're growing nationally slowly. Penetration in New England and Northeast. So how do we use social media aside from being hyper local which is a given in New England, but like just to get interest for other people elsewhere so they can ask their stores in Florida.
- [37:38]
Gary Vaynerchuk
So thank restaurants the which is a client ironically a Vayner. But even if they weren't, this would grow up. I don't know if you know this, but for years they were only in the southeast, but they would run commercials in Northeast. Cool, interesting. And so this is the advice I'm giving you. I've always thought that the sonic move on the QSR level was always the smartest B2B distributor and reselling move. Like you could build up so much Demand on Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram in Arizona by making. To prove my point, I would make a Diamondbacks cookie, make it up and then only market it in Arizona to Diamondback fans and just literally show your if I was the other son, be like, watch this. And in a hundred days inbound inquiries to carry it. So like manifested manifest through execution. That's why I said something about the Secret the other day. Like, fuck the Secret. You know that book like you. You know, and people got really mad. They're like, gary, manifestation is real. I'm like, because you did something behind it. Like, I also have a goal. It's called buying the. You know. Are you going to say that buying the New York jets was a manifestation? No, I. Yes, I said it, but it was because I was doing things. So yes, manifesting through very tactical. You know, you could even target actual retailers. You guys could thoughtfully sit down and say, okay, in Minnesota there's this great family gourmet chain of 11 locations. Like if I was a wine producer just to give a comp, I would try to get to Cappy's or Martinelli's in Mass. I tried to get to Haskell's in Minnesota. Like you could get real thoughtful. I mean, you can get so crazy when you actually make the. The the cookie. Marinelli and Cappies are two big chains in Mass for liquor. You can literally create a cookie called the cap market the fuck out of it and then just target ads to employees of Cappy's and inevitably they're gonna be like, holy shit, there's a fucking cookie called the cap. We have to carry that. I mean, it's so scary. What I know I can do anything with this model. What do you want to happen? It's just reverse engineering.
- [39:56]
Katie
Can you do that for software?
- [39:58]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Of course. Help me out. You have to understand, you know, his is real easy, right? Because you're dealing with a cookie and you're talking about an environment where the store's ROI is predicated on bringing in new items, kicking out items, things of that nature. Where his part, him getting into stores, what I just showed you I could do. Crazy, uncomfortably. The game that we'd have to play is retention. The game where I'd have to really help him is retention. Because if I looked under the hood, his economics might not even be that attractive. In opening an account that then kicks out the product after 90 days, about.
- [40:33]
Nick
Six or seven accounts to make a.
- [40:34]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Region worth it in our space. Now the good news is back to that. I think I could get them 12 and. Because then I'll lose six and like, that's what I would do. I'd be like, all right, we need in order, what are the 12 fucking? You know, like mom and pops or one offs or six store units or. Software's tougher, but far more lucrative. That's why they're big businesses. You know, you've got to get in. Once you get in, it's hard to get out of bad. Even bad software, it takes two, three years. Which is why we all love building SaaS businesses getting in is tougher. But what you could do is actually reverse engineer every single business and decision maker you could actually spend. I think people are so worried about talking that they're spending no time listening. Your ability to, I mean, her ability to literally create all 50 agencies that are within driving distance of her home, because that's just smart. Like, why get an account that's far away and then literally just stalk, AKA do homework on the pain points and words out of the mouth of like. I mean, she could possibly. And you know this especially being an extrovert. Like, her business may come from the fact that they're both maverick fans. She could make a Luka Donich reference in a post. I mean, that works on me. We do that, you know, so you know what?
- [41:53]
Katie
Like, how can I rename a part of my product to be like Diamondback Leeway?
- [41:58]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know, you know, the thing. The thing there is that's your business. Whereas, like, it's askew under his world. So it gets a little trickier. But I think the thesis of reverse engineering your target is again, I don't think. I don't think, Sana, maybe Nick, you might have caught this. There was this great moment four or five years ago, my team, me staying out here, which I do once or twice every couple months, where I basically declared I was going to get popular in hip hop. And everybody made fun of me, made fun of me. And I just did it right in her face. You can do it if you've got. If your product's good, then you can do anything. You just have to understand how the Internet works. So that's what I would do in that scenario. I'd also really, really, really challenge you to innovate on shipping. You know, I think one of the things that I've noticed with a lot of food products is that they were half pregnant with their execution on E. Comm. And it's so imperative for the growth of their business long term that putting some money and more importantly, heart and head behind actually trying to solve it instead of being like. And family businesses love to do this.
- [43:05]
Nick
They do that a lot.
- [43:06]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes, they do. And I think that that is super important because much like brokers, retailers take way too much of the action. You don't want them to have control and you don't want somebody to come along.
- [43:19]
Nick
For a small business, one account can handle a large percentage of your.
- [43:23]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Scary. Yeah, scary. Cool. Thank you. Let's keep it going. Let's go. Freeform, raise your hand. Go ahead.
- [43:32]
Katie
So back to our conversation with the auto generated content. We believe that humans and AI should work in partnership because as you know, marketing is emotion and you buy on a motion.
- [43:44]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You couldn't agree more.
- [43:46]
Katie
So each of the posts, you can edit them. And TMI said, right?
- [43:49]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You can.
- [43:50]
Katie
So what I saw.
- [43:51]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And do you guys tell them that that is the best practice?
- [43:54]
Katie
Yes, we get good.
- [43:55]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Keep going.
- [43:56]
Katie
But we started doing it more because one of the things I have is I had all my interns, as soon as someone becomes a customer or even they become a lead, they connect with them on LinkedIn for me or follow them on Twitter. And so I actually. They get that. And then also I'm watching, right? So I could see that they were pushing the button and letting the content rip. And if you put garbage in, it's garbage out, right?
- [44:14]
Gary Vaynerchuk
A hundred percent.
- [44:15]
Katie
And I was like, oh, guys, this is just basic, one on one grammar center.
- [44:18]
Gary Vaynerchuk
We don't even. We. We believe in it so much. We don't automate anything. Even Though we think that that's inefficient and should. But I've been so passionate to build the religion of context, not automated scale, that if I did it now, now the company would be thoughtful about it. If I did it first, it'd be like everybody else in the world and 99% of your clients. And we just met with Facebook. 99% of what celebrities do. Like, everybody wants automation. Nobody actually wants to build a meaningful relationship. They just want the likes and the sales. I'm aware.
- [44:51]
Katie
I do have a secret.
- [44:53]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Go ahead.
- [44:53]
Katie
Which is your team?
- [44:55]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Phenomenal. And I'm sure, like, we. We hack with stuff, but like, the fact that, like, I don't even know that is like the punchline. Right? You know, like.
- [45:04]
Katie
So, okay, so the point is, is that I saw them doing this and then people actually started asking me to like, how do we start? How do we optimize it? And so I decided to. So we do open office hours every week for the public. Anybody can come in for half an hour. We go through features and we talk marketing and blah, blah, blah. And so I was like, you know what? Once a month I'm going to just get on. I'm going to auto generate somebody's blog. They can volunteer or I can just grab somebody and I'm going to go in and optimize each single post it. Show me. And so we do it. It's great. Everybody's yay.
- [45:35]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yep.
- [45:36]
Katie
And so we were trying to figure out, like, how can we improve that? So right now, this ties in the podcast question. This is a very visual thing. Right. And it takes time. You need the screen. It's like a. It's my time commitment. I can't really reproduce it. It's hard for me.
- [45:52]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I can't even really. Well, you can layer services on top of it.
- [45:56]
Katie
Well, so we. We have an inkling idea of this.
- [45:59]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Tell me about this. I think you should tell the world that it would be far more effective for them to pay an extra $5,000 a month for post production before they post than just hitting the post. Sanan, who on our team is using this product? I want to get the insight.
- [46:14]
Katie
May and Nishan.
- [46:15]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Cool. Let's find Raghav. I want to just hear him talk for a second. You know, I think you would be stunned if you went with this approach. And I understand why you wouldn't. Hey, I want to see this. I know. Let me go. Let me give you the pitch. Hey, how much is your product?
- [46:34]
Katie
Starts at 50 with SAP is a.
- [46:37]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Customer understood so give me the range. 130,000amonth or 10,000amonth. Cool. 50 to 10,000. Right? Cool. Hey, you can use this at 100 bucks a month. And we're very proud of the product. If you pay an extra thousand a month, that hundred a month actually works like 2000 instead of the hundred working like 30. I genuinely believe that to be true. How are you using this tool?
- [47:08]
Nick
Well, a couple of ways we're doing scheduling.
- [47:11]
Gary Vaynerchuk
That's okay.
- [47:13]
Nick
Scheduling is a big one on LinkedIn. Just because we can made a way schedule on LinkedIn.
- [47:16]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Right.
- [47:17]
Nick
We're also like taking. It also allows you to take transcripts from the videos that we have.
- [47:22]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yep.
- [47:22]
Nick
And it pulls out quotes that will potentially perform a platform. So we'll run through, we'll take like a video that we put on YouTube, we'll run it through the platform, we'll pull out like 10 posts and we'll schedule them out over the next like five days.
- [47:36]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Understood. And how'd you find was? You remember?
- [47:40]
Nick
I think we post, we post something on LinkedIn.
- [47:43]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Do you know the story? You do? Yeah.
- [47:44]
Katie
What was it you posted the thing on LinkedIn that said, oh, I wish there was an AI tool that would create 30 or 40 posts out of long term content.
- [47:50]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And I was like, hey, awesome. Thank you. Shout out. I'm sure. Awesome. Thank you.
- [47:56]
Katie
We actually neared some of the shout outs too.
- [48:02]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Sabre, I think, I think, I think that, I think that, I think you just roll with that. I think you roll. I think you make that part of a sales pitch. If nothing. First of all, say it again. Yeah. Hey, super excited you're checking this out. So look, based on the way you look like you're going to do it, I think you're going to be 300 bucks a month. Just FYI, we have a creative services overlay which does the post production. That is actually the variable of success. Our tool gets you to third and a half base, but the human creative variable from third and a half base to home plate is so much more significant. Now, this may sound weird. Even though you're only paying 250amonth, our service for our creatives and our strategists and our copywriters is 1000amonth. In addition, we're thrilled to have you at 250 and we think there's nothing that competes for 250 in the market. However, just on the record, whether you do it and we don't do it for 1,000 or you pay us to do it for 1,000 at 1250, intuitively I feel like you're getting $2,500 worth of value. Excuse me, at 1,000 you're getting $2500 worth of value. Or excuse me, at 1250 I had to write the percent. You're getting $2,500 of value. At 250 bucks, we think you're getting $350 worth of value. So if you can afford it, you can imagine how that amortizes. Or you still pay us 250, but you better fucking hire somebody and pay them 40,000 a year to post, produce everything. Cause you can't imagine the delta. Here's three fucking versions of me doing it by hand. That's the pitch.
- [49:32]
Katie
This is over recorded.
- [49:34]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yep, that's the pitch.
- [49:35]
Katie
That's super money. Thank you so much.
- [49:37]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You got it. It will work. Here's why. 25 will hire you for it and you'll start building a vaynermedia on top of it. It won't be as efficient as a SaaS business, but it'll bring up your, you know, ROI and like they'll be, it's going to work better. It's going to help your LTV. 20%, 20% are going to do it internally in a way they wouldn't have done it if you sold it differently. They'll do it right, which is 40 more than you have now.
- [50:11]
Katie
And again, back to the specific industry. It's still very like high touch of a lot of visits and meeting and handshakes and like how can we break into it and layer in more digital content to alleviate some of our sales reps from having to have so many face to face?
- [50:29]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I think that unless you get people to communicate via text or screen times or things, you won't eliminate it. I think what content will do is make your funnel much bigger. Okay.
- [50:40]
Katie
We do all of our support via text and we have it on 24 7.
- [50:43]
Gary Vaynerchuk
So awesome.
- [50:45]
Katie
We're the ones responding to any inquiry.
- [50:47]
Gary Vaynerchuk
So now you're, now you're talking more about the DNA of the sales team goes back to the construction guys. It's getting them to push for more, you know, scalable communication. Some of them are most naturally comfortable in face to face. There's many salespeople who subconsciously, subconsciously think going to meetings is what there is justifying their being. Yeah.
- [51:14]
Katie
I mean that a lot of times is their KPIs. Right. Is like how many meetings and phone calls they have. So adjusting those to be aligned.
- [51:22]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah. It's so funny. A lot of my biggest clients are like Gary, you know, I get it, but my team doesn't. You believe in this. And I'm like, change the KPIs if you believe in it. And you're the CEO. Sally, make the bonuses predicated on your marketing. People spend 25% on Facebook. I have a funny feeling if their personal bonus is tied to a requirement of spending 25% of the money on Facebook, like, it's unbelievable watching leadership push the envelope on their employees. To your point, which was. I'm glad you picked up on so quickly. Change the KPIs. It's so fun to like companies that bonus. We don't really do that here. But like you have full control, can make people do whatever you want.
- [52:04]
Katie
You guys know people.
- [52:05]
Gary Vaynerchuk
This is here we have a couple of different things in place for like the heads of the offices and some of the Vayner. I think the Sasha group is taking a different approach with James because he comes from that ecosystem. I'm letting him do that with these guys. So, like we're starting to have some. But like I've always. Bonuses scare me as a macro because I, I'm worried about a disconnect. I'm worried about, you know, Nick and I him being on an arbitrary bonus structure. I mean, some things are black and white, but even that scares me because if you're. If you're doing it just completely on a financial KPI, people's behaviors become so erratic and often don't map to the culture or the gray or the long term that I'm trying to build. So it's inherently against it. And then the only other way to do it for me is subject it. But then you're. Then he's walking in thinking he should get 22k in bonus and I'm thinking 13. And that's fine because that's not a super big apart. But literally I just had somebody and this is a raise cycle. They're walking in, they think they deserve $100,000 raise and I think they deserve a $5,000 raise. And that's real. That literally just happened. And I'm like, that's going to be tricky. I'll get back to you fucking like, you know, like, I don't know where I'm, you know, literally what I'm like, all right, I got a lot of thinking to do. What's going to happen here?
- [53:14]
Katie
So, you know, we don't get bonuses either, but that's because we haven't been able to afford to in the budget.
- [53:19]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I got it.
- [53:20]
Katie
But it's also Seemed to be working, which is, you know. So I had of course tons of investors who are like what the hell when you have a bonus?
- [53:27]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And I'm like, yeah. I mean investors are excel sheet, Goldman Sachs, you know, business school junkies, they just think it's right. It actually leads to incredibly bad human behavior. And if you competitive it just leads.
- [53:46]
Katie
To.
- [53:48]
Gary Vaynerchuk
People have to live and they have factored in the max of their bonus. First of all, people don't know how to save money. Like if you have an employee who literally has an arbitrary bonus between 15 and 50,000, she's living with the 50,000 in mind. Then it comes and you give her 26 because he had a bad year. She was just okay. She's like fuck. She's like my credit card bill is not getting paid off. Like it's just crazy. People don't factor real into theory. I always go here when I get in this mindset, I always implore people to read Marcus and Communism on paper. It sounds remarkable. Every person at VaynerMedia would love it. It's extremely socially liberal. It just isn't inherently human. Some things are better on paper. And business became one, two, one dimensional. And finally I see some of the tide turning. Starting to have EQ and gray conversations. But in the rise of finance and startup it was run by an old boys club of, you know, Harvard Business School told me they see ya. Just not my thing on the investor side.
- [54:54]
Katie
Yeah, we do some specific marketing to investors.
- [54:57]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Smart.
- [54:58]
Katie
I was gonna ask you thought that was a viable strategy or.
- [55:01]
Gary Vaynerchuk
It is the strategy.
- [55:02]
Katie
Okay.
- [55:04]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I couldn't be more bullish on that. For somebody who's raising capital. Always be putting out content to raise capital so that when you have to raise capital you're on third base, not fucking the dugout. Couldn't super bullish on it.
- [55:19]
Katie
So we actually took our investors emails and ran through Facebook and did.
- [55:26]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I actually think the other thing you guys could be doing is already marketing for the exit?
- [55:31]
Katie
Oh yeah.
- [55:34]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Like here's why, here's why. You know, like just you're, it's never the wrong time to take somebody grossly overpaying. Like I, I have always said to everybody this is never for sale and if it's for sale, quit. But inherently there's always a 1% chance in my head I'm like, well if Disney realizes this creative machine and they offer me $3 billion tomorrow, it's a wrap. Because it's just too much. It's just not. There's nothing I can like, you know, I would trick Disney into thinking nobody's going to quit. Then a lot of people would probably quit because I've been telling them to quit. But I'd fucking figure it out because it's too big of a number and it just. The Million Dollar Man's right. Everybody's got a price. So, like marketing now for the exit is also a good idea. I can't imagine that having a good understanding of who might want to buy you and then making content about you in a way that lends them to start putting seeds to why they should buy you. Running an article, running a piece of creative that is titled why Food Service Companies should Own all their Internal Tech. Right. And then subconsciously, like, humans are funny. They're real funny. Like the CFO of a board all of a sudden goes, we should have our own internal tech. Who do we use? Quick, let's buy them. That's what happens. Yeah, that's true.
- [57:10]
Nick
So I'm on the building in New Jersey. I'm redeveloping and I am putting COSI in there as a food services. The construction supposed to be done in the beginning of 2019. They're going to move in February of, excuse me, 2020. And how do you, how would you go about marketing? Like, I want basically the building's half full, so I have about 70,000 square feet of leasing to do.
- [57:40]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Central jurors.
- [57:41]
Nick
Yeah.
- [57:42]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And you're. And are you trying to think about the notion of how do you market to the other businesses using COSI as like a gateway drug to them, considering it?
- [57:50]
Nick
Well, I just kind of wanted to get the word out there because there's no food services in the area, meaning there's no downtown. People in the building bring their lunches actually into the office and I had some janky grab and go, you know, vending machines that I took out of there.
- [58:09]
Gary Vaynerchuk
And you think it's a value prop and might be and might be the reason somebody considers to move? Look, I would pound, and I mean pound the 20 mile radius of your company or this location on LinkedIn. I would pound the living shit out of it. But one more time because I want to give you good advice and actually you already. Now I remember what you answered. You still believe it's basically a localized transfer. This is not somebody going from Trenton to here, it's not Bergen county to there, it's not Ohio to there. It is within that radius is what your intuition is. Yeah, I would probably run two cohorts of ads about the project on LinkedIn against business owners within a 15 mile radius and then a separate one. Business owners in New Jersey to get the same thing that his family cookie business found out by having E Comm which is like wait a minute, there's random demand in Denver. I think just running the ads might give you some insight. And and then please, what was this? I got here all of Jersey. And again you've got Nick and others here. Maribel, like they'll help you kind of like tie some of these ribbons up that I'm putting down. Like what did he mean by that? Or how do I actually do that? We can. Or on a follow up call like we want to bring value. But that's what I would do. LinkedIn ads are expensive because there's a floor. It starts at $2 cpms instead of 5 cents like Facebook or 10 cents like but. But it's very high quality and organic without paid will work. But when you post that, hey, this is one of the, hey, the premier central Jersey, you know, office space is here now with you know, if, even if you made it a commercial, if you post that organic on your, if you made a. For that building or even on your organic LinkedIn that could meet. That could hit somebody in Florida. The reason you pay for the ads is you get to get narrow. I want you to do broad content because it's just always a good idea. It could lead to a million different things. Let me give you an example. It could lead to a third generation family that doesn't have a succession plan in a real estate empire saying this kid seems smart and he comes from a pedigree of multi generational developers. I'm going to reach out to him and see if he wants to operate my business since I have nobody to give it to. Like it could lead to that. Do you see where I'm going? That's why content done right always is a good idea. It leads to things you're not even thinking about. You saying something thoughtful in a video that was built to get people in Dallas area to work with you may lead to somebody in Oregon reaching out to you and saying don't do that. We thought that was brilliant. Why don't you become the backend infrastructure for us? And you're like I did that. I don't want to do that. And they're like but we'll do this. And you're like, well that makes it financially worth my time. What I like about the content is it creates you to be open to things you might have not even thought of. That's the brilliance of A volume creative model. The reason I'm smart and have all these insights is because I've created a content machine that led to me listening. It looks like I'm talking. It led to me listening. Right. That's great. It is crazy. It's a good one. I made sure Dustin caught it. You know, all the talking has led to a level of listening that gives me such profound consumer insights.
- [61:30]
Katie
I have another question.
- [61:31]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Go.
- [61:32]
Katie
So Nick was telling us a little bit last night. How about you guys stopped your strategy of wasting time on annoying customers or.
- [61:41]
Nick
FPS over in doubt?
- [61:44]
Katie
Yeah, which I like. Of course. I love firing in my customers. But you know, we're still trying to figure out our funnel and still young enough that every customer cats almost working.
- [61:54]
Gary Vaynerchuk
No, no, that's right.
- [61:55]
Katie
Letting them go. And because they. I actually demand a couple people, which felt great, but anyways. So you know, there's a lot of theories about how many calls, many touches or emails, whatever it is social touches that it takes to get a customer. Right. 12, 14. Like, so if I have these leads and they're. They're qualified. Pre qualified. Like taking that metaphor into consideration, like really, how much time do I want my people trying to reach somebody or trying to convince somebody? All we know is that if we get you a demo, I have 50% chance of closing. It's like closing you all the way. Like 18%. Sorry. I have an 18% chance of actually closing you as a sale and 50% of closing you into a trial. So Dello is good. I want to get you on the phone and say like, hey man, look at my thing. But right now I know that it takes. It can take like, well, reaches out.
- [62:48]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know, because you're a sales organization right now, not a marketing one, which is okay. It's the story of 99.9% of SaaS products. It's just not what I think the white side piece is.
- [63:00]
Katie
You say it because when we market it, it actually happens pretty instantaneously. But it's the sales that does it. So you're 100% right.
- [63:08]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I'm aware.
- [63:08]
Katie
So what do I do? Wait, and a good example is on your thing where I commented, every single person who commented back has had a demo this week.
- [63:18]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Makes sense.
- [63:19]
Katie
But at the same time, I have all these leads that we got from other places, like in my sales accounts, and I have names and email addresses and phone numbers. What do I do with those people? Do I just all socially hunt them? I guess that's what I should do.
- [63:33]
Gary Vaynerchuk
It's my question Yep. And what you want to do is create one anchor piece of creative that is your show. That becomes the catch. All top to everything. If everybody here leaves with a podcast, and that is really where I'm going more than the vlog, then I've won because I really think it will work. You know, not everybody's gonna be good at it. But when you do very narrow podcasts, you only need a very small group of people listening. This is not about making the AskGaryVee show. You get seven people to listen and two become customers. For a lot of you, it's going to be ROI positive. Especially when you're at a mature level and have sales teams, it becomes wildly positive.
- [64:19]
Nick
Well, same with doing an interview on a smaller podcast that might have like 300 views. That's 300 people.
- [64:24]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Like, I mean, it's all I did. We had that. We had a really famous piece of. Well, famous. We had a piece of content we. That I like. Let me rephrase. There was a piece of content we made that I liked that just showed all the. It was just all these highlights of me being on different podcasts and YouTube shows. And it showed how many views the video had. 107. 92 for showing to people. Like, lower, lower. Everyone's trying to get on Joe Rogan's podcast. He doesn't want you, you know, like, like you need, you need. You've got a long way to go before you get there. Let's get on the ones that you can. And more importantly, let's host the one you're far more likely to host and get somebody way above your skis than you are to get on somebody's show that's bigger than you.
- [65:05]
Katie
We're getting a lot of requests of like local entrepreneurship in Arizona. It's like just starting to bubble and. Which is great from a thought leadership perspective, but it isn't like towards our industry that's still valuable to.
- [65:17]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Especially if you film it and then post it and target against your.
- [65:20]
Katie
We'll do that now.
- [65:21]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah, I, I do more podcasts now than I used to because I'm filming it and it's giving me content. So even for us podcasts, being on them is great too. If you record it, even if you're in your office, like I literally record. That's what will record me on a speakerphone doing a podcast. Interesting. Everything's about content.
- [65:45]
Katie
What about discast is concept though? Like trying to drive incentive with like tender stuff.
- [65:53]
Gary Vaynerchuk
It's sometimes a good short term sales mechanism and always a Brand, a brand detriment.
- [66:02]
Nick
How do you deal with bound publicity? What's the first time of year address.
- [66:08]
Gary Vaynerchuk
It publicly, truthfully, including if I was wrong? It's the only move. There is no other move.
- [66:14]
Nick
There's no laying low.
- [66:15]
Gary Vaynerchuk
No, yeah, there is. There is actually. That's absolutely true. Going into hibernation and waiting for the news cycle to end is an option. But unlike 1949 or 2000 for that matter, it lives on the Internet in perpetuity. And more importantly, here's the key of making a mistake. Even if you're like on the scummy side of a mistake, America will reward you for the I'm sorry. And then you can just move forward like you're such a young kid without knowing anything of why you're asking that question. Without knowing anything, just going all like, this is crazy. I said this the other day to somebody. I believe that saying I'm sorry is so revered in our society that sometimes it's not a joke. I think about making a. Doing something on purpose that's bad to just say I'm sorry because I think net net, it would be better.
- [67:09]
Katie
It's true. I, I trained all of my customer service, even just two people, to always say I'm sorry. No matter what happens, first thing comes out of every email in their mouth. Yeah, I'm so sorry. You had this topic.
- [67:19]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yeah. And then to that point of like going from smart tactic to deep intent is everything, you know, like there was something, somebody made a mistake here. Very senior with another employee who's not here anymore, got a little ugly person said they were sorry in a nice way and I was like, okay. And now in a month, I want you to do something that makes them really know you're sorry. So I want you to watch everything they're about and whether it's for their daughter or for them, or donation to a charity or giving a thousand bucks to a gofundme of their friend's house that burned down. Now show them it. Really look for somebody who's so good at scale, pizzazz, sizzle, all this, it's about the stake, it's about the long term, it's about the truth. It really works. So to answer your question, especially if you're going through it somewhat, laying low is cool because it allows you not to confront and you get away with some short term roi, but it's always there. Saying you're sorry and taking a little bit more of a beating lets you go fast for the next 80 years.
- [68:34]
Nick
Let's say you had like zero culpability.
- [68:37]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You know, this will help copability as like the ability to cope with it. The judgment.
- [68:43]
Nick
Yes. Something happened and like say you know you're getting blamed for someone else doing.
- [68:48]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Something, then you address that truth, even if you don't want to call that person out by name. If it's the truth and it's not the excuse you came up with for convenience for yourself, which many people do in that same scenario. If it's 100% the truth, then you come out and you reply in video form where there's no confusion in written form and you post that truth. If it's 70% true and 30% is the convenient of how one wants to not take on accountability, you need to come out with the energy of 70 and 30.
- [69:21]
Nick
Yeah, great.
- [69:24]
Gary Vaynerchuk
It's really. And then if it's completely. I thought you were going a different place. I was hoping you were, but so I'll say it anyway. Cause it's super interesting to me. I've been thinking a lot about this practice of losing and saying you're sorry is an incredibly powerful game. We are in such a judgment society right now. A complete lack of interest of accountability and a complete interest in blaming others that the people that practice I'm sorry and accepting their losses are going to become monstrous. Okay, go ahead, sneak it in.
- [70:02]
Nick
Well, no, it's all good.
- [70:04]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Go ahead.
- [70:05]
Nick
So I'm working on this brand that you can only purchase clothing. You can only purchase it in New York, but I'm trying to target people who are traveling to New York, but.
- [70:13]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You can only physically buy it here.
- [70:14]
Nick
Physically buy it here.
- [70:15]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I think the number one tactic is community management on Twitter. Searching 500 different key terms that are indicators that they're going to be here. Because once they're here, it's hard. You need to win them the day before, honestly. So. Okay, got it. Quote, unquote. Like literally 500 terms on search, locked in. Going to New York. Trip to New York, My vacation. Vacation, you know. Awesome. Thank you. Carousel.
- [70:39]
Nick
Some female.
- [70:40]
Gary Vaynerchuk
That's really nice. Thank you. Thank you.
- [70:42]
Nick
You can target people who actually target.
- [70:44]
Gary Vaynerchuk
You're welcome. Thanks, guys.
- [70:46]
Nick
And Facebook ads.
- [70:50]
Gary Vaynerchuk
I'll see you guys later. Thanks.
- [70:53]
Nick
Maybe not that those.
- [70:56]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Hello.
- [70:56]
Katie
Hi.
- [70:57]
Gary Vaynerchuk
Yes. But yes, she's. Oh, yay. Where am I going?