Podcast Summary: The Geek In Review

Episode: Max Junestrand and Ilona Loginova: How Cleary Gottlieb & Legora Are Redefining Legal Work

Hosts: Greg Lambert & Marlene Gebauer
Guests: Max Junestrand (CEO & Founder, Lagora), Ilona Logvinova (Director of Practice Innovation, Cleary Gottlieb)
Date: July 21, 2025

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode dives deep into how Cleary Gottlieb and legal AI platform Lagora are collaborating to redefine legal work by leveraging the latest advances in agentic AI. The discussion focuses on how their strategic partnership came about, the technological evolution of AI in legal practice, the importance of collaboration and interoperability, managing change and adoption within law firms, and predictions for the future of AI-fueled legal workspaces.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Cleary Gottlieb & Lagora Partnership

Background and Vision

• Cleary Gottlieb recently announced a formal partnership with Lagora, following a year-long pilot phase (03:04).
• Lagora positions itself as an "AI-first legal workspace," with integrated collaboration tools, advanced document review, and a Microsoft Word plugin (03:21).
• Focus is on seamless collaboration — not just among lawyers, but also between lawyers and clients, using AI to remove repetitive tasks and enhance value (03:21–04:57).

Ilona Logvinova’s Perspective:

• Emphasizes hybridity: merging human and machine intelligence for legal practice (04:57–05:51).
• “We want to merge collaboratively, we want to merge machine capabilities and emerging technologies into the practice of law, directly embedding it into the way that lawyers work.” (04:57)

2. Cleary’s Broader AI & Innovation Strategy

• Cleary employs a multi-pronged strategy: partnering with external AI providers (like Lagora), investing in internal AI development (Springbok acquisition), and integrating both approaches (06:10–08:13).
• Partnerships are seen as VC-style investments – focusing on the partner’s roadmap, adaptability, and future value (07:00–08:13).

Max Junestrand’s Take:

• “AI is almost like this vector on which you can compete.” (08:13)
• Legal tech’s challenge: breaking down organizational and technological silos for true interoperability (08:13–09:45).

3. Driving Change in Law Firms

• Law firms operate on short budgeting cycles, which complicates big tech investments (09:45–10:06).
• Cleary’s success attributed to visionary leadership willing to embrace disruption internally (Clery X, creation of in-house ALSPs) (10:40–12:30).
• Adoption was triggered by clear demonstrations of generative AI’s increasing practical value, especially in the last year (10:50–12:30).

How to Get Buy-In from Partners:

• Focus on the inevitability of technological change and how proactive innovation transfers the locus of disruption from external competitors to internal solutions (10:50–12:30).

4. Navigating the Pace of Innovation & Change Management

• Constant innovation in AI makes roadmap and vendor selection crucial (12:30–16:39).
• Importance of being comfortable with constant change:
  “Change is inevitable, but suffering is optional.” (12:57, Ilona)
• Adoption fueled by focusing on where “the puck is going” rather than resisting the direction of technological travel (12:57–14:21).

5. Technical Depth: Workflows and Evaluations

Lagora’s Approach:

• Leverages LLMs’ strengths for more dynamic, sequential workflows compared to static, hard-coded alternatives (22:14–24:53).
• New features allow for agentic workflows where the AI can break down tasks, plan execution, and ask humans for help when uncertain (22:14).
• Real-world impact: onboarding calls exceeded Zoom’s max capacity, highlighting massive attorney interest (15:17–15:24).
• Ability to compare AI vs. human outputs at scale to build trust and validate accuracy (20:11).

6. Adoption, User Experience, and Client Service Impact

Rapid Adoption & User Engagement:

• Cleary’s adoption of Lagora was “very easy,” attributed to starting with universally valuable, broad-based use cases and a user-friendly UI (32:50–33:07, 33:07–33:48, 28:11).
• “If it’s not Instagram, I don’t want it… I don’t think anyone ever had adoption issues with Instagram.” (28:11, Ilona)

Measuring Success:

• Adoption monitored with analytics; ongoing enablement and training customized to practice-specific needs (33:48–36:49).
• Impact is measured by breadth and depth of data-powered analysis that AI enables, beyond just the speed of work (37:38–39:58).

7. Funding and Scaling the Solution

• Lagora’s Series B ($675M valuation) is seen as enabling further ambition, rather than simply accelerating burn; focus on building for rapidly maturing LLMs and scaling with power users like Cleary (25:36–28:11).
• Co-design and feedback from firms like Cleary are integral; rapid deployment and real-world testing are preferred to “locked room” development (25:36–28:11).
• “We get the most energy out of building things that get used and that solve problems.” (26:43, Max)

8. ROI and Return on Innovation

• Scandinavian design philosophy credited for Lagora’s UI success (29:33).
• Shift toward fixed-fee arrangements means technology efficiency impacts firm profitability (29:33–32:11).
• ROI assessed through both time saved for specific tasks and higher-level business model changes (29:33–32:11).

9. The Crystal Ball: Legal Tech’s Near Future

Major Predictions:

• Max: Rapid consolidation — UIs will aggregate many backend legal tools; agents will work across platforms, reducing tool-juggling (41:31–42:27).
• Ilona: Legal tech will become AI-native, with AI embedded into backend infrastructure; predicts radical changes in digital workspaces, including screenless, AR-enabled interfaces for truly collaborative environments (42:27–44:34).
• Both highlight that formerly “sci-fi” scenarios might be less than two years away.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ilona Logvinova [04:57]:
  “We want to merge collaboratively, we want to merge machine capabilities and emerging technologies into the practice of law, directly embedding it into the way that lawyers work.”

• Max Junestrand [08:13]:
  “AI is almost like this vector on which you can compete on.”

• Ilona [12:57]:
  “Change is inevitable, but suffering is optional.”

• Max [16:39]:
  “When you’re dealing with AI, I don’t see how you can evaluate something with more important focus or priority, because AI is constantly improving.”

• Ilona [28:11]:
  “If it’s not Instagram, I don’t want it… I don’t think anyone ever had adoption issues with Instagram.”

• Max [29:33]:
  “It has to be Scandinavia Design. That’s the answer to all our success.”

• Ilona [33:07]:
  “You have to start with the high-value scalable user cases.”

• Ilona [37:38]:
  “The value proposition of embedding AI is around data level… AI is infinite, right, in its capabilities.”

• Ilona [42:27]:
  “AI will start to move from the front end of applications… into the back end infrastructure as being a core driver and engine of those tools… We’re getting much closer to just interconnectedness, collaboration, acceleration in the work that’s being done…”

• Max [41:31]:
  “You’ll see a huge consolidation… Instead of having to go to every separate piece of software… you will leverage agents and LLMs… and deliver a more end-to-end piece of work.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Partnership History: 03:04–05:51
• Cleary’s Dual-Pronged AI Strategy: 06:10–08:13
• Technical Collaboration & Interoperability: 08:13–09:45
• Firm Structure & Change Management: 09:45–12:30
• Dealing with Rapid Innovation: 12:30–16:39
• Workflows & Agentic AI: 22:14–24:53
• Lagora’s Series B, Scaling, and Co-Design: 25:36–28:11
• User Experience & Firm-Wide Adoption: 28:11–33:48
• Measuring Success & Impact: 33:48–39:58
• ROI & Law Firm Business Model Evolution: 29:33–32:11
• Crystal Ball/Future of Legal Tech: 41:31–44:45

Flow & Tone

The conversation is candid, fast-paced, and forward-looking — grounded in real-world law firm experience, but always referencing larger trends, ambitious technology bets, and a collaborative, experimental mindset. Both guests and hosts frequently use metaphors (sports, design, transformation), and the tone is both optimistic and pragmatic about the rapid pace of legal industry change.

For Further Information

• Contact Lagora: www.lagora.com | Max at max@lagora.com
• Contact Cleary Gottlieb: Firm website; Ilona welcomes direct outreach

This episode is an essential listen for anyone interested in the intersection of law and technology, the role of AI in knowledge work, or how innovation is being embedded into the DNA of elite professional service firms.