Genealogy Connection #086 - Jarrett Ross, the GeneaVlogger

Summary

Genealogy Connection #086 - Jarrett Ross, the GeneaVlogger

Host: Drew Smith
Guest: Jarrett Ross
Release Date: December 23, 2024

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Overview

In this engaging episode, host Drew Smith interviews Jarrett Ross, widely recognized in the genealogy community as the “GeneaVlogger.” Jarrett is celebrated for bringing genealogy to life via YouTube, with a particular focus on Jewish genealogy and video education. The conversation journeys through Jarrett’s personal genealogy origin story, his path to genealogy YouTube fame, his deep specialization in Sephardic Jewish history, and practical insights for aspiring researchers. The episode delivers a blend of personal anecdotes, historical perspective, and tips, making it both informative and approachable.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Jarrett Ross’s Genealogy Origin Story

[01:44-05:23]

• Family Curiosity Spark:
  • Jarrett’s childhood curiosity was piqued by overhearing family discussions about unknown cousins and seeing a pedigree chart going back to the 1600s at a cousin’s bar mitzvah.
  • Quote: “About eight or nine is when I got my first genealogy software and started to get into the genealogy thing.” (02:27, Jarrett)
• Early Efforts & Brick Walls:
  • Access to Jewish records was limited; initial forays often ended in dead ends.
  • He used genealogy software like Family Tree Maker and experimented with “fake descendancy” trees for fun as a kid.
• Breakthrough with Online Tools:
  • Discovering Geni.com’s World Family Tree in 2009 opened new doors for collaboration and cousin connections, particularly among Dutch Sephardic Jewish relatives.
  • Quote: “Within a few months, it just went crazy for me after years and years of just constantly hitting brick walls. And that was when I became absolutely hooked.” (05:18, Jarrett)
• Global Family Connections:
  • Established contact with hundreds of relatives worldwide, spanning the US, New Zealand, Australia, UK, Amsterdam, and South Africa.
  • Quote: “This takes diaspora to a whole new level here.” (05:23, Drew)

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2. Learning & Education Process in Genealogy

[06:10-09:14]

• Self-Taught Beginnings:
  • Jarrett was largely self-taught, learning from magazines like Family Tree Magazine and early software, then later via Wikipedia’s research standards.
• Academic Background:
  • College focus in communications and film influenced his research and storytelling style.
  • Developed a strong appreciation for context and the philosophy behind discovering and interpreting information — including the concept of “semiotics.”
  • Quote: “I'm thrilled that we now have the first instance... of the use of the word semiotics. I don't think that's ever been appearing on any episode.” (09:14, Drew)

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3. Joining and Presenting at Genealogical Societies

[10:29-13:55]

• Unique Entry Point:
  • Jarrett’s first genealogy society experience was as a speaker, not an attendee, presenting on using Geni.com for the Triangle Jewish Genealogy Society (2012).
• Value of Conferences:
  • Real boost came from attending his first conference (IAJGS, 2017) with Henry Louis Gates, Jr. as keynote speaker.
  • Emphasized the importance of networking, knowledge sharing, and meeting “real people” from online communities.
  • Quote: “Once the conference happened... that's when it went to the next level.” (13:12, Jarrett)

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4. Becoming the “GeneaVlogger” & Genealogy YouTube

[16:04-22:47]

• Early YouTube Adoption:
  • Jarrett used YouTube from its inception, initially as a video storage platform, then moving into content creation.
• Professional Leap:
  • The “genie vlogger” brand was born alongside his step into professional genealogy circa 2017. Realized the lack of genealogy video content, particularly for Jewish genealogy.
  • Quote: “There's not much going on here, so it's very niche... And even more, my specialty is Jewish genealogy, and there's nobody doing Jewish genealogy on YouTube.” (19:36, Jarrett)
• Platform as Portfolio:
  • Viewed YouTube as both a teaching tool and a means to showcase expertise for potential clients.
  • Leveraged his film and communications background, using professional equipment and storytelling techniques.
• Branding Challenges:
  • The “GenieVlogger” name often prompts confusion (“Like a genie?”), but he wanted a unique brand not tied only to his personal name.
• Style Influences:
  • Modeled early content on vloggers like Casey Neistat, integrating personality and storytelling into genealogy education.

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5. Speaking at RootsTech & the Future of Genealogy

[25:42-27:13]

• Upcoming Talk:
  • Jarrett will present the opening talk at RootsTech on “The Future of Genealogy,” covering AI and DNA technology advances, including:
    • Facial recognition, handwriting OCR (optical character recognition)
    • DNA tools like reconstructed genomes and artifact/rootless hair testing
    • “Low SNP” forensic DNA testing (kintelligence)

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6. Ashkenazi vs. Sephardic Jewish Genealogy

[27:13-39:33]

• Personal Heritage:
  • Jarrett has both Ashkenazi and Sephardic roots, but is predominantly Ashkenazi.
• Sephardic Context:
  • Sephardi Jews are a minority compared to Ashkenazi, especially in the US, and have different traditions, language (e.g., Ladino, Judeo-Spanish), and customs.
  • Quote: “A lot of Sephardi Jews actually do have an issue with... people talk about, you know, Jewish culture, they specifically talk about Ashkenazi Jewish culture. Whereas Sephardi Jewish culture would be much more reminiscent of Mediterranean cultures.” (28:51, Jarrett)
• Historical Diaspora Waves:
  • Detailed the three main Sephardic dispersal waves: Eastern Sephardim (Ottoman Empire), North African Sephardic, and Western Sephardic (Jarrett’s family line).
  • Explained the “conversos” (Jews forced to convert in Spain/Portugal), the B'nei Anusim (descendants of forcibly converted Jews), and debates about their migration to the Americas.
  • Referenced researchers Stanley Hordes and Judith Newlander with differing views on the size and impact of the B'nei Anusim population in the New World.
  • Cautioned against poor genealogical practices, especially around the Portugal/Spain citizenship programs misusing DNA and surname “jumping” as proof of Sephardic descent.
    • Quote: “Surname jumping—my great grandparents had this surname. I see this surname is in the Sephardic lists... but... if you looked at all of the top Sephardic family names, they all correspond with the top Spanish and Portuguese names because they're just Spanish and Portuguese names adopted by Sephardim.” (38:12, Jarrett)
• Need for Good Historical Context:
  • Emphasized: “If you don't understand history, none of this is going to make any sense whatsoever.” (41:42, Drew)

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7. Colonial History & the Western Sephardic Network

[42:06-47:29]

• Dutch Colonial Ties:
  • Drew connections between Dutch colonies (Curacao, Suriname, Jamaica, and even Indonesian territories) and Sephardic communities, thanks to the prominent role of Portuguese Jewish merchants and the mutually supportive economic and social networks stretching from Amsterdam outward.
• Records & Genealogy:
  • The Amsterdam synagogue’s “Despachos” records document funds given to help poor community members resettle in other colonies—valuable for modern genealogical research.
• Story of Jewish Arrival in New York:
  • The ship carrying Jews from Recife (Dutch Brazil) to what would become New York is a direct pipeline from the Dutch Sephardic network.
• Quote: “So, yeah, Western Sephardic communities are kind of a little different from the other waves of the Sephardic world.” (47:18, Jarrett)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Within a few months, it just went crazy for me after years and years of just constantly hitting brick walls. And that was when I became absolutely hooked.” (05:18, Jarrett)
• “I'm thrilled that we now have the first instance... of the use of the word semiotics. I don't think that's ever been appearing on any episode.” (09:14, Drew)
• “There's not much going on here, so it's very niche... And even more, my specialty is Jewish genealogy, and there's nobody doing Jewish genealogy on YouTube.” (19:36, Jarrett)
• “Surname jumping—my great grandparents had this surname. I see this surname is in the Sephardic lists... They must have been Sephardic... but it doesn't prove it.” (38:12, Jarrett)
• “If you don't understand history, none of this is going to make any sense whatsoever.” (41:42, Drew)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Jarrett’s origin story: 01:44 – 05:23
• Learning genealogy & education: 06:10 – 09:14
• First society talk & conference experience: 10:29 – 13:55
• Launching the GeneaVlogger YouTube channel: 16:04 – 22:47
• RootsTech talk overview (AI/DNA future): 25:42 – 27:13
• Ashkenazi/Sephardic distinctions & diaspora: 27:13 – 39:33
• Colonial networks & Sephardic migration: 42:06 – 47:29
• Closing remarks & tease for future DNA/endogamy discussions: 47:29 – 48:23

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Tone & Style

The conversation is casual, friendly, and peppered with humor. Drew and Jarrett use relatable language, making complex historical and genealogical concepts accessible for newcomers and veteran researchers alike. The episode is informative yet inviting—perfect for anyone wanting a lively introduction to Jewish genealogy, YouTube as an educational platform, and the power of self-driven research.

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Final Thoughts

Jarrett Ross’s appearance on Genealogy Connection offers a vibrant primer on the intersection of genealogy and new media, as well as a rich exploration of Sephardic Jewish history, research challenges, and best practices. If you’re intrigued by family history, Jewish or otherwise—or thinking about sharing your own expertise with the world—this episode is essential listening.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

This is Genealogy Connection, and I'm your host, Drew smith. In episode 86, I connect you, the genealogist, with Jared Ross, the geneal vlogger. Jared has been producing hundreds of YouTube videos about genealogy for the past seven years. You'll learn how Jared got his start with genealogy and with video production and. And a lot about the history of Sephardic Jews. Genealogy Connection is sponsored by RootsMagic and Vividpix. Now on with the show. Welcome to another episode of Genealogy Connection. In this episode, I am joined by a gentleman that I've gotten to know at some genealogy conferences. And we'll may talk a little bit more about that coming up. But he's none other than Jarrett Ross. He is the genie of vlogger. That's vlogger with a V meaning video. And so Jarrett has some interesting expertise in a number of areas we'll get to. But in the meanwhile, Jarrett, welcome to Genealogy Collection Connection.

[A]

Thank you so much for having me.

[B]

If I say it correct. Connection. Yes. Okay. No, glad to have you with us. And yeah, you're. You're a guy. This is. Well, we'll get to what you do in a minute, but I guess I have to do what I always do with the guests. I have to know your origin story. You know, were you shot out of a. A dying planet through a rocket to Earth? Were you, you know, were your parents killed by some creep in a back alley and, you know, you've sought vengeance Or. Or is it something maybe more typical for a person? What is your. How did you get into this genealogy thing, Jared?

[A]

Well, to get into the genealogy thing really started with just curiosity about my family in two different ways. One was that growing up, I would constantly hear my dad and his sisters talk about these cousins that I never knew and was like, wait, what? I have other cousins. What are you talking about? So that was always kind of a curiosity of, like, who were these people? And then I also going to my cousin's bar mitzvah when I was. Gosh, I would have been eight years old, maybe. My uncle had printed out a pedigree of our family line, which traced back to the 1600s.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And when I saw that, it just intrigued me beyond belief. So those two things kind of worked together. And about eight or nine is when I got my first genealogy software and started to get into the genealogy thing. But back then, especially with Jewish records, the availability of things was not great. I was too young to be contacting. That was way beyond me. So I'd usually hit a brick wall. Pretty early. And the funny thing I actually would do is I had a crush in school, so then I'd end up making a fake descendancy tree of me and my crush, this big family and stuff. But for years and years, it was just kind of. I dabble a little bit, hit a brick wall. Okay, I'm fine. And then 2009, I was a senior in college and I learned about Genie.com's the World Family tree.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And that just intrigued me as well, of like, oh, the world family Tree. That idea of all these different cousins I had heard of. And at this point, because genealogy had become much more available online about 2009, there were not tons of databases, but, you know, a lot of people had private websites and things like that. And with my mom's family, they were Dutch Sephardic Jews.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And there were multiple websites about Dutch Sephardic Jews that would have different parts of the family tree. So when I got Genie, this was the first time I felt like I truly had the ability to actually piece all of that together. Because before I would just go to the different websites and be like, okay, this is the shared ancestor. I'd have to kind of scroll through all of these clunky looking pages of basic, you know, HTML pages and trying to figure out how, you know, oh, this person's a fifth cousin to me and they live in Australia and, you know, that sort of thing. Because part of it was I wanted to connect with cousins.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So when I found Genie, that allowed me to do that and connect with cousins. And in 2009, that was the first time I connected with a cousin just by reaching out, being like, I think you're related to me. And these were fourth cousins of mine who were actually living in New Zealand. And then within about a month or two of that, I had connected with a couple hundred relatives from this same family of mine. And we were scattered all over the world. So, you know, my family's in America. I connected with a lot of the other American cousins in that month. But then the cousins in New Zealand, there were cousins in Australia, there were cousins in the uk, There were some cousins in Amsterdam, there were cousins in South Africa. And so it was like within a few months, it just went crazy for me after years and years of just constantly hitting brick walls. And that was when I became absolutely hooked. That. That was.

[B]

Yeah, this takes diaspora to a whole new level here, you know.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. We coming from the Western Sephardic Diaspor, maybe we'll get into that.

[B]

Oh, I hope so yeah, we'll, we'll talk about that.

[A]

Well, very worldly population group.

[B]

So you discovered. And again, you, you were doing this at a time when the Internet was further along and there was more genealogy online. So you, you had that benefit going forward. But I'm curious about education. How did you learn, what was your process or, or resources for, for learning how to do genealogical research? What, what, what did steps did you take to, to become a, a better researcher?

[A]

Well, when I, when I first started, it was a lot of self teaching. You know, when, when I first first started, like the age of 8 or 9, I remember my mom bought me Family Tree Maker. She ordered a couple of the ancestry DNA record CDs I think they had back then. So we, when I was 8 or 9, that would have been 96, 97, I think it was. And then she ordered the Family Tree magazine for me. And so it was what was in there. And then just kind of learning that sort of stuff. And when I was in college, a lot of what I was learning was communications. I was a communications and film major. And so some of what we were learning was kind of the ideas, the philosophies behind researching and understanding things and, you know, the basics of communications and you know, things like semiotics and how we, we visualize things and it's different from person to person. And so that kind of gave me an interesting sort of look into things of every time I would read, find something, I'd want to learn more about it. It was kind of like, let me get more of the context, which I feel like is a really good thing when you're doing research is it's always kind of about context. And then taking that further, what's the context around what we're looking at and then what can we find that could give us a better idea of what's going on with it? And around that same time, I also became, right before I became absolutely obsessed with genealogy, probably sophomore, junior year of my college, I was obsessed with Wikipedia.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And so that kind of gave me another level of research style in that Wikipedia has a specific guideline that they don't allow personal research. There's an actual guideline called wp. Pos or not. Maybe, maybe it wasn't pos, but basically you're not allowed to do personal research on there. And if you use personal research as a citation, any sort of primary sources often will get kicked out. It has to be secondary sources.

[B]

Yeah, I've always hated that as a academic most of my life. That's like, seriously people. Okay, but, you know.

[A]

Yeah, but forces you into, you know, kind of how am I going to create this article that I know the information's there. And so it kind of also gave me that sort of a view into things of going beyond what's so readily accessible.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I feel like kind of a lot of that came together and then over, over the years, I mean, it's just, it's been all over the place. It's been all over the place, but it's been, I like to say it's, it's a lot of kind of self teaching, just kind of just going along and just, you know.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I, I am going to say this. I'm thrilled that we now have the first instance in, in almost 30 years of podcasting of the use of the word semiotics. I don't think that's ever been appearing on any episode. So I'm thrilled about that. All right. As somebody who's into that kind of stuff. Okay, let's. So at some point now, now are you in, you've been in North Carolina a while, am I correct, or the.

[A]

Majority, the majority of my life I've been in North Carolina. I was, I was born in Tarzana, Los Angeles. Then when I was about six, I think five or six, we moved to a suburb outside of Chicago. And then When I was 10, we ended up in North Carolina. And I've basically been here since, except for a four year stint in Pittsburgh for college.

[B]

For college.

[A]

I hated the weather there. So.

[B]

Yeah, well, yeah, I couldn't. Yeah, I don't see I could manage it. I've been, yeah. Like Southerner most all my life almost. But let's. Yeah. I'm curious about. Did you experience attending any genealogy society meetings? Was this something you did? And I mean, what was that like when you first went to a meeting of a genealogy society?

[A]

So I have an interesting story with this in that the first genealogy society I ever actually attended was the first time I ever gave a presentation.

[B]

Ah.

[A]

And it was also the first official presentation for that society. So when I mentioned before, I kind of became absolutely obsessed. 2009, that was when it became like a everyday sort of thing for, you know, non stop since then. And when I came back from college, I graduated college 2010, came back, there was a problem with my credits at college because of a screw up from my advisor. So I ended up having to take college courses while I was here. And so I kind of didn't get to focus a lot in the genealogy stuff. Until 2011. And so I started to look into what's available around here locally. And I found out about the iajgs, the International association of Jewish Genealogical Societies. And I saw somewhere that they were working to get a local chapter in my area called the Triangle Jewish Genealogy Society. And I got in touch with Debbie Long, the person who was local, in kind of getting this all set up, kind of told her a little bit about myself and what I had done, and they ended up inviting me to come and give the first talk.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So that was about 2012. I came and I. I gave the first talk. It was a how to use genie.com talk.

[B]

Okay. Now, this first time you've presented to a society is. Yeah. Of any.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I will say. When I was in college, my senior year, after I'd already become obsessed with genealogy, I did a presentation in one of my classes about it. So that was kind of technically my first one, but my first society presentation, one where people weren't really getting their eyes glazed over watching me talk about genealogy. And so that was my first jump into it. And I remember the group started going to all sorts of events, and I started to look into conferences. But at that point, and I think still for a lot of people, I imagine that around that age that I was, which at that point, you know, I was 22, 23, it was just too much money. You know, I needed to work to make a living, and I couldn't take off enough time. So it was, like, really difficult to get to the conferences. So my first conference wasn't until five years later in 2017.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And that was. I feel like the conference was really the, like, big jump start, like the Society, definitely, it gets things going because getting. Getting around a group of people that have that same mindset and that same passion. And especially once you start getting into the first conversations with people and then you realize that, oh, this person actually knows something I've never heard before, I'd never seen before. And you start to learn things just in the conversations. And even better, the small connections of, oh, well, I can actually get you connected with this person because I know they do this or that. But once the conference happened, 2017, that's when it went to the next level.

[B]

Which do you know which one was that?

[A]

So that was the Orlando conference for IAJGs, the International association of Jewish Genealogy.

[B]

Societies, which I attended. I think that's the only IHags I've attended. Yeah.

[A]

I imagine there's probably a big reason why you attended and probably was one of the big reasons why I attended, and that was that Henry Louis Gates Jr. Was the keynote speaker. That was. For me, that was kind of. As soon as I saw that, I was like, okay, if I get. If I have to contact a bunch of cousins and be like, hey, would you be willing to donate money to help me get down there? But I also lucked out and that the people running it at the time, I messaged them and said, you know, my funds are limited. It's going to cost me a lot of money. You know, I see you have this student amount. Is it fun? You know, I haven't been a student for years. And they were like, definitely do it. And, you know, especially now that I'm so involved in the community, I can imagine they're like a young genealogist.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah. You attend a conference and. Yeah, I mean, even when I started, you're right. I brought down the average age when I attended. And it's still. I'm almost. Still bringing down the average age. But yeah, no, actually the main reason I attended JAR is because I could drive there from Tampa, you know. Yeah, it was convenient. It was real convenient. And I thought, it's not coming back to Florida anytime real soon. I better go now, you know, so. So that was a lot of it. But yeah, no, great conference. And like you said, the networking was awesome and the ability to. Because that. Yeah, pretty much anybody who's a expert in. In Jewish genealogy was there. I mean, that's just something you'd expect. And so, yeah, great, great conference. So.

[A]

And especially. Especially being such an online community spread throughout the world. Yes, it is such an amazing thing when you finally meet so many of these people in person that you've just kind of been staring at a couple of pictures of on Facebook.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

You talk to them almost every single day.

[B]

And they're real people.

[A]

Especially, you know, I run a few Facebook genealogy groups and it's the first time I was meeting some of the other admins of the same groups that I was running.

[B]

So you said your college degree, you were in, among other things, film, and somehow you started doing videos on YouTube. You became the main. The, I don't know, I might argue the very first genealogist who really focused on video, although I know there are a number who do. But you certainly have. Tell us about what's prompted that. What started the whole, you know, genie a vlogger thing?

[A]

Well, I had been into YouTube for. For years. I first got on YouTube within its first year of creation back in 2006, I. I had actually gotten on YouTube, originally thinking of it as kind of like, not a place to publicize videos, but just a place to store videos. Because at that time they had a lot of, you know, there was a lot of sites where you could store your photos, but you couldn't store videos.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But because I started early on, I, you know, once YouTube developed, I kind of, you know, became into the idea of being a YouTuber. And I went through a couple of different possible channels with people over the years. There was one point I was working with a group of people trying to do a buzzfeed style channel of people in North Carolina trying things from around the world, and we shot a few videos and stuff like that. But the genie vlogger idea came along around the same time that I decided to go professional.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Which, this was about 2017, early 2017. I had always been told for years, being so obsessed and being involved with everything and, you know, with the societies and the online stuff, that people would be like, oh, why don't you do this as a job? And I always kind of thought, oh, well, you know, I got to go get a degree, I got to go get certified. I gotta go do this. And I've. I've always been someone who's hated schooling. I've hated that. Kind of like, I love to learn, but I hate school.

[B]

I get it.

[A]

Yeah. And so it was always that kind of like, well, if. If I have to, I guess I would. But I would prefer to kind of continue along the path that I was then, which was music. I was doing a lot of music. Playing in bands, touring, booking shows, things like that. And once I decided to become a professional genealogist, I was driving home one day, and I remember the exact, exact spot it happened because I drive by it every day and I think about this all the time when I drive by it. I was taking a right on a Westlake Road in Cary, North Carolina.

[B]

I know about Cary. Yes. SAS Institute. SAS Institute was based outta Cary. I interviewed for a job there once, many years ago. Many, many years ago. So familiar with it. Go ahead.

[A]

But it literally popped into my head. Genealogy YouTube channel. And I was on my way home. I got home, I hopped onto my computer, I looked on YouTube, and just kind of like you said, there wasn't much at that point. Family history fanatics had been going for under a year.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which for anyone not familiar with Family history fanatics, another great YouTube genealogy channel. So they had, they. They were kind of building up. Ancestry had some stuff on there. And then there was a lot of really small channels.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That the content was not the greatest. And basically I. I was like, yes, this is. This is perfect. There's. There's not much going on here, so it's very niche, so people will be looking at this. And even more, my specialty is Jewish genealogy, and there's nobody doing Jewish Genealogy on YouTube.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so it was like. I had a couple of thoughts with it. One, even if it doesn't become a big thing in of itself, which is what I would love it to have, you know, it's become way bigger than I, you know, kind of not anticipated, but, you know, it's like maybe whatever. But basically it's a free advertising platform.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

I want to get clients. I can show the work I do. And then even if my work is somewhat more niche within the overall genealogy community. Okay, that's fine. Luckily, I had a lot of experience with my friends and their family trees that I got, you know, a lot of non Jewish genealogy experience as well.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But it was just like, okay, I can advertise and possibly get clients. If I get to a point where it is something viable, then great, that gives me that opportunity. But it costs nothing to do except for time and equipment and things. But at that point, you know, I had a lot of the equipment because.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I was a film guy, so I had, you know, some camera equipment, I had some lights, I, you know, microphones, all that stuff. Yeah, exactly. So that's how I got. That's how it all got started. And the whole idea of the genie vlogger name was just genealogy vlogger. And I wanted to come up with something unique. And I didn't want to do like a, you know, Jarrett Ross's genealogy or something. You know, I thought about a whole bunch of different ones.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that was the one that I came to. And I don't know if I regret it necessarily. I know a lot of people will be like, wait, what? What is it? Or it's not very memorable. It's hard to remember. You got to write it down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, most people, when I say it, especially if they don't, even if they're in the genealogy community, I say genie vlog and they're like, oh, like a genie. Like a great three wishes type of genie. And it's like, oh, no, no, no, no. Genealogy. But part of that was also because when I first started, I wanted to do it as much more of vlogs. So at that time, around 2017, a YouTuber named Casey Neistat was really big in the YouTube community, and he had these specific kind of vlogs where part of the vlog would be him going around doing mundane stuff, like, you know, him going and getting a coffee and this and that. And then five minutes into the video, all of a sudden, he'd sit down and start talking about what the actual main thing of it was. But I always liked that kind of like, oh, yeah, you kind of see the light. You know, it's not just like this person selling you stuff. You kind of get their personality. Yeah. So in a lot of my first videos, my early videos, I do that. So there's ones where I'm like, you know, me driving from somewhere back home or going to the grocery store with friends, or me cooking myself a meal, and then I sit down, it's like, okay, let's talk about genealogy now. But so, yeah, so I was really kind of harping on that angle when I first started.

[B]

I fully appreciate some of the things you've said here and the idea that going out there looking and saying, gee, hardly anybody's doing this. Which was kind of how George and I got started with podcasting back in 2005. And, yeah, it was that same thing. It's like, george, nobody's doing this. We could do this. And then what name. And yeah, then genealogy guys came along, and because we're two guys talking about genealogy, you know, that's what it is. Okay, here's. Here's the plan, Jarrett. We're going to stop and take a brief commercial break, and when we come back, I want to talk about those areas that are in your expertise that people. I think our listeners would like to learn a few tips and things from you. So stay with us. The holiday season is here, and RootsMagic hasn't forgotten. Are you looking for a gift that will really bring the family together? Then give the gift of software that unites families. Save up to 50% on RootsMagic software, including Personal Historian 3 Family Atlas and new RootsMagic 10 through Wednesday, December 25, 2024. Use the code HOLIDAY2024 to receive your discount. There is no limit on the number of discounted copies you can buy during this limited time offer. That means only $24.95 for a new RootsMagic 10 license, only $19.95 for Personal Historian 3, and only $19.95 for Family Atlas. But don't delay. You have until Wednesday, December 25th to use code HOLIDAY2024 to receive these discounts. It can be interesting to read the stories of our ancestors, but nothing makes more impact than images. Whether it's an old family photo or a digital copy of a faded genealogical document, these images make it possible for us to be taken back in time to our family's past. And unfortunately, just as memories fade over time, so do photos and documents. But you can bring them back to life with vividpix Restore software. Restore uses patented artificial intelligence to give you the ability to improve the quality of your scanned images with just a single click. And you can use Restore to add metadata to the digital image to help describe who is in the photo and where and when it was taken. I could go on, but why not try it out for yourself for free? Go to vivid-pix.com restore and click the free trial button for either Windows or macOS. Welcome back. You're listening to Genealogy Connection. My guest is Jarrett Ross. Jarrett is a great guy. We even get to play board games and card games at conferences, too. We're going to be doing that. Are you going to rootstek this coming rootstech? Is that your plan?

[A]

And I am going to rootstech and I actually found out that when you go and look at the RootsTech website program listing, my talk is the first talk listed.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

I've been getting messages from people nonstop since they released it. Like, oh, I just noticed you're the first talk.

[B]

What are you going to be talking about at RootsTech?

[A]

So I'll be talking about the future of genealogy, which is a talk which I dive into both AI and DNA. And it's not a how to use it, but an overview of what's going on now and where do I see it going in the future and how we might be able to use utilize it. So it gets into a lot of AI beyond just the large language models like ChatGPT. I talk about facial recognition, optical character recognition, especially the handwriting thing.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And then with DNA, I talk about things that people are really into, like reconstructed genomes, you know, creating an ancestral profile for her deceased ancestors, and then artifact testing and rootless hair testing, which is now a thing, actually, and as well as what I like to call low snip testing. So what they call kintelligence, which is currently only used by the forensic industry. But yeah, I think eventually it'll reach us consumers and it'll be a very worthwhile tool once it reaches.

[B]

Well, let's get into some of these topics that you regularly speak on. In fact, I recall the one I saw you do at RootsTech for those of our listeners who may or may not know this, I do have 25% Ashkenazi as my paternal grandmother, although the DNA tests say I'm 23% or 20. Well, it just tells me that my father gave me a little more of his father and his Irish father and a little less of his Jewish mother. But, you know, that's, that's how DNA works. But let's talk about that and let's start. Well, you mentioned. Now here's what's interesting, but you yourself, if, and correct me if I'm wrong, you don't have Ashkenazi ancestry. Is that correct or am I misstating that you're mistaken?

[A]

I do have. I have both Ashkenazi and Sephardi.

[B]

Oh, okay. All right.

[A]

It is. I am actually a majority Ashkenazi. If I, if I figure out the perfect. If recombination was perfect percentage, I think it's 7.5% Sephardi that I am. And then the rest.

[B]

Okay, so you're definitely personally qualified to speak on both aspects. But the ones that I would judge that most of our listeners are more familiar with Ashkenazi research than maybe Sephardic, because at least in the United States. Now, here's. Again, I need to be corrected. It would be clear to say there are more people with Ashkenazi ancestry than Sephardic. Or is it again, one of those things where I've just misheard that.

[A]

You are 100% correct on that one. It is by far more, many more Ashkenazi than Sephardi. And so a, A lot of Sephardi Jews actually do have an issue with. When people talk about, you know, Jewish culture, they specifically talk about Ashkenazi Jewish culture. Whereas Sephardi Jewish culture would be much more reminiscent of Mediterranean cultures, which makes sense, obviously, coming from Spain and Portugal, you know, that's right there. Mediterranean. But with, with Sephardic Jewish culture, it's similarities. But, you know, things are very different. What we like to call the Minhag, the traditions of the, the different Jewish that kind of alludes a little bit more towards the religious side of things. So, like, just even the way that Sephardic Jews and Ashkenazi Jews say the exact same prayers, very different conduct services, is very different. But even beyond that, the, you know, the food, the dress, the, you know, Sephardi Jews don't speak Yiddish, you know, if anything, they're usually speaking the language of their home country, or if they're Eastern Sephardic Jews, they'll be speaking things like ladino or Judeo Spanish, not all Sephardi Jews.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Those languages, though, which is another misconception that happens a lot. But yeah, Sephardim are definitely much more niche within the overall Jewish world.

[B]

Now, as far as. And although this, we have listeners all over the world. But again, I'm thinking in terms of the United States, would it be true, though, that many individuals with Sephardic might be in places like southwestern U.S. like near Mexico? Or is that. Did that happen where Sephardi came over from Spain or Portugal into places like Latin America then? And so there.

[A]

There's a few things going on with that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

In terms of Latin America overall, there are certain communities that are largely part of what we call the Western Sephardic Diaspora.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And these are the communities that include in the Caribbean, so Jamaica as well as South America, so Jamaica, Suriname, Curacao, those were kind of the three big ones, but there's a few other big communities there. But the, the Western Sephardic Jews are different than what a lot of people are talking about when it's the southwestern part of the United States.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And so the southwestern part of the United States is what's referred to as the B' Naian Nucine. And so the difference is the waves of Sephardic Diaspora. And so the breakdown for that is that the first wave is what we call the Eastern Sephardim. And the Eastern Sephardim left largely before 1492, all the way back into the 1300s year. I always like to mention is 1391, very big year for a lot of Jews leaving. And most of these Jews left the Iberian Peninsula and made their way to the areas of the Ottoman Empire. So, you know, present day Istanbul, present day Damascus, you know, basically even within, like areas of Greece, Salonica was a big community. And so that was kind of the first part of the. The diaspora. The next wave was the North African Sephardic wave wave. And this happened right around 1492 with the fall of Granada. A lot of the Jews basically just leaving straight over the Strait of Gibraltar, going into North Africa and then spreading throughout North Africa. A lot of them in Morocco, obviously, because that's right across the street of Gibraltar. But even going as far as communities out in Tunisia, which Tunisia, they actually had a lot of big communities, especially in Tunis. I had cousins there, actually. And then the third wave is the Western Sephardic wave. And that's where I descend from. And these were the Jews who went from Spain to Portugal, because Spain gave the Jews three options with the Inquisition. Leave, convert, or if you don't leave by the time you have to convert, then you die. Basically, four months. Make a choice. And so a lot of them just went to Portugal because Portugal didn't have an inquisition enacted yet. Then Portugal wanted to marry within the Spanish crown. They had to enact an inquisition to do that. Theirs was even harsher because the Jews weren't allowed to leave. They were, you know, was convert or die. No, no leave, no third option.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so these were the Jews that became known as the conversos. So any Jewish family within Spain or Portugal that converted, they were technically called New Christians. And New Christians were limited on where they could go. But those who stayed secretly Jewish, those were the conversos. And so in the 16th century, that's when we see a lot of these conversos starting to leave Portugal and Spain, starting to escape and make their ways into the Western Sephardic communities that were developed. So these include Amsterdam, which is probably one of the bigger ones, kind of the bigger hubs. Livorno, Italy was a big one. Bayonne and Bordeaux in France, there were some communities there. London's community, so Bevis Marks, I know, is a synagogue a lot of people have heard about in London. It's the famous Portuguese, Spanish and Portuguese Jewish synagogue. And that's from the Western Sephardic wave. But that wave also includes those, you know, the ones in Jamaica and Curacao and Suriname and St. Thomas and other places around South America and the Caribbean. And then the new Christians who stayed in Spain and Portugal passed that or moved to the New World, staying as New Christian. These are the B' Nai and Usim, which some people define as its own wave. Some people don't. One of the big things with the Binet Newsom is that there is a major argument in the academia of how big was it, how many were there? I lean more towards the side that says that it's probably not as big as some. Others say. A big part being that if you know how things were, then new Christian families really weren't allowed over there. And if you were a new Christian family coming to the New World within one of the Spanish or Portuguese colonies, then that was a lot of risk that you had when, especially if you wanted to stay Jewish, if you wanted to be, you know, Catholic on the outside, but truly Jewish, why would you want to go to one of the worst areas when it's so much easier to get to Amsterdam, you know, elsewhere? So not to say that there weren't any, because there definitely were. We know for sure that there were. Binet Newsom. But right now there's a lot of things in terms of the, you know, a lot of them are said to have gone to areas of present day Mexico and the Southwest U.S. and so there's kind of an argument of how true that is.

[B]

It's okay.

[A]

At this point, it's not completely known. The two researchers that are kind of the opposite sides of the main part of the conversation, there's Stanley Hordes, who kind of did a lot of the research saying there are a lot of Binet Newsom in, in New Mexico and, you know, places like that especially. But then another researcher, I believe her name is Judith Newlander, went and researched in that same area and basically found that a lot of the evidence was not very strong. I know the one that I always heard about was that it was said that they were b newsome because they were lighting candles on Friday nights. But the thing is, is that all families were lighting candles every night. So it wasn't, you know, it was kind of just maybe taking things out of context. So there's a lot of things going on with that that it's hard to speak on sometimes because the different camps of, you know, what they believe and things got especially, I don't want to say violent, but especially contentious. Yeah, contentious. With the laws that were passed in Spain and Portugal which allowed fast track citizenship for Sephardic descendants.

[B]

Gotcha.

[A]

And that became a whole issue into itself because as genealogists, we know genealogical proof standard and what type of things need to be set for that. And they did not consult the genealogists for this. And there were some genealogies being accepted of proof of Sephardic ancestry, which, remember, you know, proof of Sephardic ancestry for some of these people that are coming from the B' Nai and Newsom. Well, that's a lot to. To prove. Not only are they, you know, are they actually Jewish, but a lot of people were basically just using DNA and genealogical records in ways that make a lot of. It made me cringe a lot. Sure. But I think anyone that adheres to the genealogical proof standard, they'd be like, what? You know, one of the issue, one of the biggest issues was what I like to call surname jumping. You know, my great grandparents had this surname. I see this surname is in the Sephardic lists of surnames. They must have been Sephardic. But then even more, we know that if you looked at all of the top Sephardic family names, they all correspond with the top Spanish and Portuguese names because they're just Spanish and Portuguese names adopted by Sephardim. So it could indicate possible Sephardic ancestry, but it doesn't prove it.

[B]

Right? Sure.

[A]

But some of these people were using that. And one of the applications that really got things even more contentious was the oligarch Roman Abramovich. And if anyone's listening and wants to learn more about that, you could probably find a ton of articles just by Googling Roman Abramovich, Portuguese citizenship. And the application that he submitted was made public somehow I tried to look for it recently and I couldn't find it. But I remember going through it and if I remember correctly, the proof basically amounted to a story that he was told by great grandparents.

[B]

Ouch.

[A]

And yeah. And so the combination of the issues that they had with the citizenship laws and then the issues of the Binet Newsom, how true it is, and the proof of that, a lot of the researchers that adhere more to the genealogical proof standard, kind of going crazy with it and the people that didn't quite understand, you know, the people that especially laymans that weren't part of the genealogy community going, well, no, this is proof. I've talked to professionals, but the professionals they talk to are people that don't adhere to the same standards. So one of the things that I remember hearing early on when I got into Sephardic research that I quickly learned was, oh, this is the side of the research where people are not adhering properly was they'd say it's the underbelly of the genealogy world. And that just code of we're not adhering to the genealogical process proof standard. We're not proving every step of the way. We're allowing there to be a couple of steps in between our connections to not be there.

[B]

It's a little bit like of a nature of back in the days, the medieval days, when there were people paid to show that the king or queen were descended from the gods or the whatever and just to justify so they made up whatever they needed to do to satisfy their, their well paying clients. And so yes, it's, it's hard to deal with. One of the things I want to ask you, Jarrett, you, you've mentioned a couple things that I would like to dig just a little bit deeper into now. First of all, to summarize, you said a lot and I think the reason I know I'm saying that in a good way because it shows to any genealogist who is any genealogist, I don't care what your ancestry is, that you've got to know history You've got to understand the events of history, why people left or stayed in certain places. And if you don't do that, none of this is going to make any sense whatsoever. So you've got to spend some time with history. And. And that's important. But you mentioned a couple places, and I want to bring them up. And again, see, I want you to correct any misconceptions that I might now have that. That I. You mentioned Curacao, you mentioned Suriname, and you mentioned Amsterdam. Is there a connection here that people ended up in these places that. Yeah. Belong to a certain colonial power that are. What's.

[A]

Explain that connection, Jared, you are making some proper connections there. Yes. So basically, these were Dutch colonies. And so anywhere that the Dutch had a colony, you usually find a Sephardic Jewish community. Even in the Indonesian colonies that the Dutch had, there were not quite as big as some of the other areas, but there was a Sephardic Jewish community. And part of this just has to do with the history of the Sephardic Jews in Amsterdam and how once they became part of the community, they were already a big part of it, because the first Jews to come over to Amsterdam in the late 16th century were merchants.

[B]

Ah.

[A]

And so they already had these worldwide networks themselves.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And once the Dutch started to colonize more of the world, well, who were they utilizing to do that? The Sephardic Jews, even more. The Portuguese Jewish community of Amsterdam, which is the official Sephardic community and separate from the Ashkenazi community of Amsterdam, set up all sorts of funds to support its members. And often that would also include supporting communities throughout the Sephardic world, even outside of the Western Sephardic world. But this is one of the reasons why we often refer the Western Sephardic communities. Because their connections were so strong. They called themselves the Hebrew nation. So you'll often hear variations of that Hebrew nesau. A lot of the books that you'll find written about Western Sephardic communities will usually use that. The Portuguese Hebrew nation, the Portuguese Jewish nation, some sort of form of. That refers to the Western Sephardic Jews. And a big part is because there. It's a constant flow all over the place from the Jews of Livorno, Hamburg, Amsterdam, London and Jamaica and Curacao and Suriname. And for those who know the history of Brazil, the Dutch had a colony there in an area called Recife for a while, which there was a colony there as well, or a Portuguese Jewish community until 1654, when Dutch no longer had control of it. And the. One of the ships Leaving Recife ended up getting lost. And they ended up being the first Jews landing. Are not necessarily the first Jews landing, but the first Jews landing in New York to create a Jewish community. So I think if. I think it's at Central Park west and 72nd Street. It's still there. I don't remember the name of the Congregate the synagogue, but so that the. The New York community comes directly out of that Dutch community.

[B]

Was it. Was it New Amsterdam then? Was it? Or is it after it was New Amsterdam and became New York?

[A]

That's something I need to look into. I can't remember exactly what it was. I know Peter Stuvesen or I always.

[B]

Pronounce or Stuyvesant, whatever. I don't either. I think it's something like that. Yeah.

[A]

He didn't want them to come to the colony. And basically because a lot of the Jews that were on that ship were. There was some connection between them and the Dutch East Indie company or Dutch. I forgot which one of the ship merchant lines that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Basically, you know, they were in control. And they said, well, let them in, you know, and so they. He had to. He had to let them in. I need. I. I don't remember if it was still New Amsterdam or if it was no longer in the Dutch control at that point.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I think it was the latter, but don't quote me on it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So. But yeah, so there's a seriously direct connection. And so the Portuguese Jewish community of Amsterdam, one of the funds they had was a fund called their Dispatchos Records. And. Or. Well, they didn't call it the Dispatchos records. I call it Dispatcher Records, but they called it the Despachos. And what it was was the community giving money to the poor within their community so that they can go travel and live in one of the other communities.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And so we actually have these records showing how much money they got and often where they're going. So even within my own family, the Nunes Vaz family is my mom's family. That's. She was born Nunes Va's name. So that's always been my focus. That was the family that, when I went to my cousin's bar mitzvah, was traced back to the 1600s. So that's kind of always been top of my list of my focus of research. And one of the Despacho records is an Aaron Nunes Vaz who went to Suriname. And they shows how many guilders he was given. Year 1756. And, you know, all that. And we have Nunes Vaz. We have Nunes Vas families in a lot of these communities, which I've used y DNA to prove we are the same family. But yeah, a seriously direct connection between, between all of the these communities.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So, yeah, Western, Western Sephardic communities are kind of a little different from the other waves of the Sephardic world.

[B]

Gotcha. Yeah, we'll tear it. I am bad. Good bad news and good news. We've reached the end of our time, I think. But the good news is we didn't get to talk about everything, which means I'm going to have to bring you back at some point because we. I would like to get more into DNA and endogamy and things that I've already gotten to hear you talk about in person when I was at RootsTech, but I would like to share some of that with others. But in the meanwhile, I think certainly this was valuable because I have not taken a deep dive into Sephardic history. So this was. I hope our listeners also found this helpful in understanding a bit more about. Yeah. What's this thing called Sephardic Judaism? And. And where did it come from and where did it go? So. So, Jarrett Ross, thank you for being a guest on Genealogy Connection, and we look forward to having you back sometime.

[A]

Thank you so much for having me. I look forward to coming back. Sam Sa.