2 - The Man Who Knew Too Much

Summary

Podcast Summary

The Girl in the Blue Mustang

Episode 2: The Man Who Knew Too Much
Host: Keith Morrison (NBC News)
Date: March 14, 2023

---

Overview

In this gripping second episode, host Keith Morrison delves deeper into the unsolved 2000 murder of 18-year-old Michelle O’Keefe, found shot to death in her new blue Mustang at a California park and ride. The narrative zooms in on Raymond Jennings, the night security guard whose detailed knowledge of the crime scene raises suspicions. The O’Keefe family’s relentless search for answers leads them to civil litigation, unconventional media appearances, and the hiring of a tenacious attorney, R. Rex Paris, as the case stalls. The episode explores the complex interplay of grief, justice, and suspicion amid an investigation clouded by conflicting evidence and lingering doubt.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The O’Keefes’ Grief and Determination (01:06–02:24)

• Michelle O’Keefe’s funeral is depicted, highlighting the family’s immense loss.
• Mike O’Keefe, Michelle’s father, is plagued by the question: “Who did this thing?”
• The family’s resolve to seek justice is unwavering, despite heartbreak.

“I will love you forever and I’ll see you in heaven when it’s my time to go.” — Jason O’Keefe (Michelle’s brother) [01:34]

---

2. The Suspicions Surrounding Raymond Jennings (02:24–06:38)

• Jennings, a security guard, emerges as a key witness due to his unusually detailed account of the crime.
  • He describes seeing a projectile and theorizes about the sequence of gunshots (later confirmed by autopsy).
• Investigators are unsettled by Jennings’ knowledge: “He shouldn’t know that. He shouldn’t have.” — Detective Longshore [03:40]
• No direct evidence links Jennings to the crime; his uniform tests negative for blood and gunshot residue.
• Detective Longshore is unconvinced and continues to press Jennings through repeated interviews.

“There are some killers that I’ve spoken to that I actually kind of like. You can’t condone what they’ve done, but they’re likable people.” — Detective Longshore [06:04]

---

3. Confounding Evidence and Gang Theories (06:38–10:45)

• Michelle’s car was found in a different location from where her friend Jennifer remembered parking it.
• The gang activity theory is explored but ultimately dismissed—Michelle had no connections to drugs or gangs.
• Several false confessions and rumors muddy the waters.

“We had people confessing to it. Youngsters… involved in drug trafficking… Well, okay, she was killed because she owed money to a dope dealer.” — Investigator [08:53]

---

4. An Unexpected Witness: Victoria Richardson (10:04–11:53)

• Richardson claims to have been in the parking lot, heard gunshots, and interacted with Jennings after the shooting.
• Jennings initially denies seeing anyone, but later his story changes under questioning.
• Investigators are increasingly alarmed by Jennings’ selective memory.

“Strange. Especially given Jennings’ willingness to help and his remarkable memory, that he would somehow forget this crucial encounter.” — Keith Morrison [11:22]

---

5. The Family’s Unorthodox Pursuit of Justice (12:44–16:31)

• Pat and Mike O’Keefe receive offers of vigilante justice but insist on pursuing justice through the courts.
• They make media appeals (PSAs, billboards, national talk shows) to keep the case in the public eye, including a notable appearance on the Montel Williams Show featuring psychic Sylvia Browne.
  • Browne eerily describes a "large-built man named Lee" in a blue uniform—a potential psychic hit on “Raymond Lee Jennings”.

“He had on some kind of a blue uniform with a pocket and a badge thing.” — Sylvia Browne (Psychic) [15:16]

“It almost like there was this constant little voice saying, you’ve got to get this thing solved. You’ve got to get this thing solved for your daughter.” — Mike O’Keefe [16:11]

• Jennings himself is shaken by the national attention, fearing he’ll be blamed.

---

6. Enter Rex Paris: Civil Litigation as an Investigative Tool (19:19–22:53)

• Frustrated with the slow criminal investigation, the O’Keefes enlist celebrated attorney R. Rex Paris.
• Paris initiates a wrongful death lawsuit against the City of Palmdale, the private security company, and eventually Jennings himself.
• The family invests resources and emotional energy into this civil route, even as they worry about public perception.

“The more important thing was to get this thing solved.” — Mike O’Keefe [21:30]

---

7. The Dramatic Jennings Deposition (23:52–27:27)

• Paris goes head-to-head with Jennings in a marathon deposition, attended by the O’Keefes and filmed for posterity (and by a reporter).
• Jennings, unrepresented by a lawyer, is combative, glib, and unfazed—at times even cocky, which builds tension.

“You’re doing a very good job. I would irritate me and you’re getting underneath my skin. I’m trying to stay nice and calm because I know what you want me to do is blow up in front of this camera so you can take it and use it against me. Why don’t you keep your smirk off your face? I know I will not.” — Raymond Jennings & Rex Paris [26:10]

• Paris tries to break Jennings’ composure, occasionally succeeding.
• Jennings reveals detailed knowledge of Michelle’s injuries, raising suspicions even further.

“To my memory, I honestly do [remember seeing a pulse in her neck] … Yes.” — Jennings [31:02]

• The deposition coverage lands on the front page of the local paper, stoking local outrage.

---

8. The Aftermath: No Prosecution, Yet Hope Persists (32:42–34:33)

• Despite mounting suspicions, LA County prosecutors decline to file charges, citing lack of physical evidence.
  • “But I saw that there were some serious problems with the physical evidence in the case.” — Deputy DA Robert Fultz [34:03]
• The O’Keefes are devastated but refuse to give up hope.
• Local civil claims are settled; the case remains open.

“As long as there’s breath in my lungs, we aren’t going to give up until this thing’s resolved.” — Mike O’Keefe [34:24]

---

9. A New Pair of Eyes: Hope for a Breakthrough (34:33–35:41)

• Retired Sheriff’s Deputy Jim Jeffrey joins the search, vowing to re-examine everything and perhaps shift the focus away from Jennings if warranted.

“I was going to do what I could do to prove that he [Jennings] didn’t kill this girl. And if we could get past that, then we could … go after the person that did.” — Jim Jeffrey [35:11–35:33]

---

Most Memorable Quotes

• “He knew things … way too much.” — Reporter [31:41]
• “We gotta do something. And then through that… we were referred to Rex.” — Mike O’Keefe on hiring attorney R. Rex Paris [19:38]
• “No chargeable suspect, no new clues, no solid leads.” — Keith Morrison [13:01]

---

Noteworthy Timestamps

• 01:34 — Jason O’Keefe’s promise at Michelle’s funeral
• 03:40 — Investigators question Jennings’ improbable knowledge
• 11:15 — Jennings forgets/changes his story about seeing others at the crime scene
• 15:08 — Psychic describes the suspect as “Lee or Leon”
• 21:44 — O’Keefes worry about public perception of civil suit motives
• 26:10 — Peak confrontation between Jennings and Paris during deposition
• 31:02 — Jennings admits memory of victim’s physical state post-mortem
• 32:42 — Prosecutor declines to press charges due to lack of evidence
• 35:13 — A new investigator (Jim Jeffrey) picks up the case

---

Episode Tone & Takeaways

The episode maintains Keith Morrison’s signature blend of empathy and suspenseful storytelling, painting each character in vivid detail. Grief, doubt, and determination resonate throughout as the family navigates the frustrating gap between suspicion and proof, desperate for closure.

The focus sharpens on the ambiguous figure of Raymond Jennings—at once composed, defensive, and suspiciously knowledgeable—whose fate, for now, remains uncertain. The O’Keefes’ relentless pursuit provides both emotional depth and forward drive, making it clear that, cold case or not, the search for Michelle O’Keefe’s killer is far from over.

---

Transcript

[Commercial Narrator]

Day or night. VRBoCare is here 247 to help make every part of your stay seamless. If anything comes up or you simply need a little guidance, support is ready whenever you reach out. From the moment you book to the moment you head home, we're here to help things run smoothly because a great trip starts with the right support. And hey, a good playlist doesn't hurt either. O O Ozempic hi, I'm Maria, salon owner. You know the jingle now discover the facts about Ozempic, a GLP one. There's only one FDA approved Ozempic made by Novo Nordisk. Learn about the real thing. Talk to your healthcare professional today. Call 1-833-OZEMPIC or visit ozempic.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about ozempic. Semaglutide injection 0.5mg, 1mg and 2mg O.

[Keith Morrison]

The Mojave Desert was beginning to bask and bloom in the late winter sun. Just beyond the sand in the city of Palmdale, the grass was greening out of the cypress trees at Desert Lawn Memorial park, where Michelle o' Keeffe had been laid to rest. The inscription on her stone cheerful loving sister and daughter. At her funeral, with his mother's hand on his shoulder, 12 year old Jason made his sister a promise.

[Pat O'Keefe]

I will love you forever and I'll

[Keith Morrison]

see you in heaven when it's my time to go.

[Rex Paris]

Love your brother, Jason.

[Mike O'Keefe]

It is very hard.

[Keith Morrison]

Michelle's father, Mike o'. Keefe.

[Mike O'Keefe]

And you know, it's one of those questions you have to ask, you know, you say, do you want to stand in front of God and Jesus? You know, why us?

[Keith Morrison]

Impossible not to ask, impossible to answer. But there was a second question too. A question that would not leave him alone, that tormented his every waking moment. Who did this thing? Mike o' Keefe would do anything to find out and get justice for his daughter. Anything. In this episode, you'll see how far a family will go to get answers. He's very large billed, but his name

[Rex Paris]

is Lee or Leon.

[Keith Morrison]

You'll hear from a brand new witness who turned the narrative on its head.

[Investigator/Detective]

She heard a tapping sound which we've determined was probably the gunshots.

[Keith Morrison]

And you'll hear what happens when a larger than life attorney seems to go to suspect to lose control.

[Rex Paris]

You're doing a very good job. I would irritate me and you're getting underneath my skin. I'm trying to stay nice and calm because I know what you want me to do is blow up in front of this camera so you can take it and use it against me. Why don't you keep your smirk off your face? I know I will not.

[Keith Morrison]

I'm Keith Morrison and this is the girl in the Blue Mustang. A podcast From Dateline Episode 2 the man who Knew Too Much about the Central facts. There was no doubt Michelle o' Keefe was hit with some blunt object and then shot to death while sitting in the driver's seat of her brand new Mustang in a park and ride north of Los Angeles. As for the rest, there just wasn't much to go on. Except Detective Richard Longshore was getting a familiar feeling in his gut about that one talkative witness of his, the night security guard, Raymond Jennings. Jennings had told Longshore he heard shots fired, saw muzzle flashes, but couldn't see the shooter.

[Investigator/Detective]

And yet when we entered, interviewed Mr. Jennings, he said that he saw a projectile laying on the pavement and that he speculated that projectile was there because the shooter accidentally shot into the ground as he approached Michelle. It took us hours to determine that's what occurred. And yet he had as a cold observer with no first hand information in a matter of minutes. Just shouldn't know that he shouldn't have. He knew for example about the sequence or he opined the sequence of the shots, that the first shot was point blank into her chest.

[Keith Morrison]

That's exactly what it was as determined by the autopsy.

[Investigator/Detective]

Right. And we don't make those determinations before we go to an autopsy. And for a layperson come up with that, it justified defy logic.

[Keith Morrison]

Three days after the murder, Jennings quit his night security job. Said he couldn't feel comfortable around there anymore. So he drove over to all Valley security at a strip mall on Palmdale Boulevard to turn in his uniform. And of course Detective Longshore found out. And a few days later, detectives retrieved the nylon security jacket and the beige short sleeved shirt and the dark pants the that Jennings wore that night in the park and ride. Happily, the clothes had not been washed. Could be a DNA gold mine. So they took the dirty uniform to the crime lab where the text ran tests for blood and gunshot residue and so on. And negative. Lots of Raymond Jennings DNA, but nothing that could pin him to a shooting in a parking lot. No blood, no gunshot residue, zip. Which tended to back up Jennings story that he was nowhere near the shooting. But this wasn't Longshore's first rodeo. Far from it. And he couldn't stop thinking something just didn't quite add up. So Longshore called Jennings in again and again. And talked to him for hours. And the guy remained as polite as could be, like he was trying hard to help. But that wasn't necessarily a sign of innocence, said Longshore.

[Investigator/Detective]

I've seen talked a lot of killers that have just killed someone, and they're not what you might expect. I can think of, you know, three or four scenarios just off the top of my head where someone can kill another person and leave no evidence behind whatsoever. That person needs to be apprehended and brought to justice and let a jury take a crack at him. Can often seem like nice people. Absolutely. I, you know, I. There are some killers that I've spoken to that I actually kind of like. You can't condone what they've done, but they're likable people.

[Keith Morrison]

Didn't make Longshore any less determined. Anyway, there was more to do. There was that best friend, Jennifer Peterson, last person to see Michelle before whatever happened. At first, she couldn't even talk, too distraught. So Longshore suggested that, gently, that they could just go have a look at the crime scene together, see if anything occurred to her there. As they got out of Detective Longshore's car, they could hear the steady hum of thousands of commuters a stone's throw away on Highway 14 connecting Palmdale to LA.

[Investigator/Detective]

And as we got to the portion of the parking lot where Michelle's car had rolled from striking the planter, I said, okay, this is where Michelle's car was? She said, well, no, it wasn't. I said, are you sure? And she says, yeah, we parked it under a light deliberately because she was concerned about her vehicle's safety.

[Keith Morrison]

Well, that certainly got his attention. The safe, brightly lit parking space Jennifer pointed out, was 17 spaces away from the place first responders found Michelle's car with her body inside. So why did she move? Why to a darker place, exactly where she didn't want to park her car? Maybe she went somewhere more discreet to change out of the miniskirt she wore to the chute and back into her more modest jeans for class. Maybe they found the jeans on the passenger seat next to her body. So, of course, investigators confronted Jennings with that discovery, and they drew a blank. Jennings went on insisting the Mustang had never moved, that it was exactly where he first saw it 20 minutes before Michelle and Jennifer got back from LA. So was he lying? We're just mistaken. Puzzle that. Anyway, the Jennings quandary was not Longshore's only lead. Meth had raised its ugly head out in the Antelope Valley. Gangs had come right along with it. They all knew about the murder. Everybody had at least one opinion. Sometimes more.

[Investigator/Detective]

We had people confessing to it. Youngsters, teenagers, early 20s up in the Antelope Valley who were involved in drug trafficking. Were. Well, okay, she was killed because she owed money to a dope dealer.

[Keith Morrison]

Of course he checked that out. But no way Michelle used drugs. But he did learn from the gang enforcement team that gang members had been making trouble in the park and ride, stealing hubcaps, rims, anything they could get their hands on for quite a while. Oh, and the confessing, well, that was not to Longshore. And it wasn't really confessing. More like taking credit for Michelle's murder so they could use it for a shakedown.

[Investigator/Detective]

Yeah, I killed Michelle. And if you don't put out it, then I'll kill you too.

[Keith Morrison]

Why did they do that?

[Investigator/Detective]

God knows.

[Keith Morrison]

Jennings wasn't any help in that department. Gangs. He said he didn't see any of that in the park and ride before or after the murder. Nobody at all for that matter. Nobody else in the parking lot as far as he was telling.

[Investigator/Detective]

As far as he was telling us.

[Mike O'Keefe]

Right.

[Keith Morrison]

Nobody came and went.

[Investigator/Detective]

That's correct.

[Keith Morrison]

So not a gang anyway. Why would gang bangers attack and kill a sweet church going kid who had no connection to them whatsoever? Then a tip. Sheriff's investigators were notified. A 17 year old juvenile who'd been taken into custody on another charge claimed she had information about the Palmdale murder. Her name was Victoria Richardson. She said she was in her car with three other people that night, listening to music near the northwest corner of

[Investigator/Detective]

the parking lot and had been smoking marijuana. She heard a tapping sound, which we've determined was probably the gunshots. She saw another car just drive by, a random car in the parking lot. And she saw the security guard walk by just moments before the shooting as he made his patrol, and she decided to leave. And when they left the parking lot, went right through the crime scene and ended up stopping and talking Mr. Jennings and saying, wait, what happened? And is there shooting? He said, I don't know, where's that effect? And he never told us that initially.

[Keith Morrison]

This is within a few minutes of the shooting?

[Investigator/Detective]

Yes.

[Keith Morrison]

And yet he told you he didn't see anybody?

[Investigator/Detective]

That's correct.

[Keith Morrison]

Strange. Especially given Jennings willingness to help and his remarkable memory that he would somehow forget this crucial encounter. So that sets off some kind of alarm in your head?

[Investigator/Detective]

It did. And we went back and spoke to him at his residence and again asked him to tell us everything that occurred. And he stuck to that story. And that's when he confirmed that there had been yet a second vehicle or another vehicle that had spoken to him. Victoria Richardson. That. Oh, yeah, that's right. I remember seeing that now. And it just started to ring off some alarm bells.

[Keith Morrison]

Detective Longshore wondered what else Jennings had not remembered, but nothing could have prepared him for this. From the talkative Mr. Jennings, I would

[Investigator/Detective]

have been thinking, why.

[Rex Paris]

Why haven't they come after me yet?

[Keith Morrison]

But why would you think that you didn't do anything.

[Investigator/Detective]

Well, just me.

[Keith Morrison]

We were in contact.

[Rex Paris]

Yeah, I just.

[Investigator/Detective]

Basically, I put myself in your shoes.

[Keith Morrison]

And he wasn't exactly wrong, but it was infuriating. No murder weapon, no eyewitness to contradict the talkative guard. Longshore didn't have the evidence to go after Jennings, and he certainly couldn't go public with his detective hunches. Doesn't work that way. But maybe he didn't have to. The rumors about Jennings were getting around, but also soon, offers of a speedier kind of justice.

[Pat O'Keefe]

I had guys come up to me, big guys that I've never seen before, that you wouldn't want to meet in dark alley that said, I'll take care of it for me. Just tell me when you want me to do it.

[Keith Morrison]

Mm.

[Pat O'Keefe]

And I said, no, I'd rather. I want him to go to court.

[Keith Morrison]

That's Pat o'. Keefe. Desperate to find her daughter's killer, she recorded a public service announcement for local tv. Husband Mike standing solemnly behind her, hand on her shoulder.

[Pat O'Keefe]

On the night of February 22, our daughter Michelle was murdered at the park and ride lot in Palmdale on Avenue s in the 14 Freeway.

[Keith Morrison]

By no means all they did. As spring turned to summer, Michelle's 14 foot high smiling face began to appear on billboards in the high desert among thousand year old Joshua trees. The billboards ready? I wasn't ready to die at 18. Can you help catch my killer? But six months after Michelle was murdered, as the desert soared past 100 degrees in the shade, the case of the girl in the blue Mustang went cold. No chargeable suspect, no new clues, no solid leads. Then on October 11, 2000, a chilly autumn day on what should have been Michelle's 19th birthday, the O' Keeffes were clear across the country in New York City on the Montel Williams show.

[Rex Paris]

Please welcome Mike and Pat to the show.

[Keith Morrison]

They'd put the o' Keeffes in the audience under a spotlight, there to bare their souls on national tv. Pat looked down self consciously as her husband Mike began.

[Mike O'Keefe]

About eight months ago, our Daughter was murdered in a parking ride.

[Keith Morrison]

A stunning black and white photo of Michelle filled the TV screen. The camera zoomed into her smiling face.

[Mike O'Keefe]

What we'd like to know is the police haven't got a name yet or anything. Do you know who killed her?

[Keith Morrison]

Seated up front on the studio's main set, Montel and a psychic named Sylvia Brown leaned forward, clasping their hands as if they wanted to bring Pat and Mike closer. Sylvia began describing Michelle's killer in a vision that had just come to her.

[Rex Paris]

He's very large billed, but his name

[Keith Morrison]

is Lee or Leon lee, as in 6 foot 2 inch security guard Raymond Lee Jennings.

[Rex Paris]

He had on some kind of a blue uniform with a pocket and a badge thing.

[Keith Morrison]

A minute later the segment was over. Though to the o' Keefes it seemed as if it had barely begun. They could easily have filled the entire hour with their hopes and mostly their fears. Pat and Mike told me it wasn't satisfying, but at least it was something. Why did you go on these shows? Montel Williams, America's Most Wanted. What was. What drove you to do that?

[Pat O'Keefe]

I think maybe just if anybody knew anything that just to get the word out because we still didn't have an arrest when we went on all those shows. So I think maybe just to see if we could get any information from anybody.

[Keith Morrison]

The importance of figuring out what happened, who did it, why, seems to loom very large in people's lives.

[Investigator/Detective]

Yeah.

[Keith Morrison]

Can you tell me about that?

[Mike O'Keefe]

You know, you don't. I never thought about it until it happened to me. But it almost like there was this constant little voice saying, you've got to get this thing solved. You've got to get this thing solved for your daughter. Yes.

[Keith Morrison]

It's like this is what you need

[Mike O'Keefe]

to do for her. You've got to do this. You want closure and when you don't, it gets frustrating and it eats at you. You got to get this thing solved.

[Keith Morrison]

The Montel show definitely had one immediate impact and that was on Ray Jennings. He'd gotten a new job as a salesman at a Toyota car dealership in Lancaster. And there were the o' Keeffe and the psychic on tv.

[Investigator/Detective]

Jennings is watching that at the dealership he was working at after he left the security guard company. And all of a sudden his pager goes into meltdown. And he was saying, oh God, I got, I. They're going to pin this on me. They're. I got to go home. They're going to pin this on me. And he left.

[Keith Morrison]

Unless he could talk them out Of.

[Commercial Narrator]

Hey girl, what's happen. Is that your antiperspirant?

[Keith Morrison]

Uh, yeah.

[Commercial Narrator]

Let me see that can. Aluminum butane. I cannot pronounce that. You have to switch to native deodorant. Native's simple formula has only clean ingredients. It gives you effective 72 hour odor protection with no hydrocarbon propellants. Wow, this smells heavenly clean. Effective 72 hour odor protection isn't a myth. You know how everything's a subscription now? Music, movies, even socks. I swear.

[Investigator/Detective]

If to continue this ad, please upgrade

[Mike O'Keefe]

to premium plus platinum.

[Commercial Narrator]

Uh, what? No. Anyway, Blue Apron, this is a pay per listen ad.

[Investigator/Detective]

Please confirm your billing.

[Commercial Narrator]

Oh, that's annoying. At least with the new Blue Apron, there's no subscription needed. Get delicious meals delivered without the weekly plan.

[Keith Morrison]

Wait, no subscription?

[Commercial Narrator]

Keep the flavor, Ditch the subscription. Get 20% off your first two orders with code APRON20. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com terms for more.

[Keith Morrison]

Hey, guys, Willie Geist here, reminding you to check out the Sunday Sit down podcast. On this week's episode, I get together with music superstar Charlie Puth to talk about his nailing the national anthem at this year's super bowl and the inspiration for his new album to drawn from a line about him in a recent Taylor Swift song.

[Mike O'Keefe]

You can get our conversation now for

[Keith Morrison]

free wherever you download your podcasts. Murder is like a wrecking ball in a family, all in pieces. No one's the same. After Pat and Michael Keefe were holding on for dear life by the time they took their case to TV shows and psychics for all the good it did. But give up? Not a chance. Otherwise it would eat them alive. And so back home in Palmdale, Pat and Mike decided that the standard way of criminal justice just wasn't going to be enough for them. What made it important to pursue this beyond the normal course of action, which is to kind of bug the police and hope for some sort of resolution?

[Mike O'Keefe]

Well, you know, it just didn't seem like that was doing anything. Saying, sheriff's department, we're on it. Longshores, competent detective. But it seems like the caseload is

[Keith Morrison]

so huge, time passes.

[Mike O'Keefe]

I wouldn't say level of interest because I think he was always interested in it, but the level of priority just didn't seem to be there. And it only goes on so long until you finally say, gee, enough's enough. We gotta do something. And then through that, through counselor, we were referred to Rex.

[Keith Morrison]

That would be R. Rex Paris. Big time civil attorney, local legend, powerful man.

[Mike O'Keefe]

It was suggested by a friend that, you know, Rex might Be a good person to go talk to on this. So we made an appointment and by gosh, we went in and talked to him. And hoping he could do what, Pull some strings, try to help us sort this thing out or see if he had any ideas. And so he thought about it for a little bit and he agreed. He goes, yeah, I think through the civil, civil process, we can get you some answers.

[Keith Morrison]

Paris had deep pockets and a reputation for hardball tactics and multimillion dollar settlements. And he told the o' Keeffes he was the man to help them get justice for Michelle. I met Mr. Paris in 2009 at his sprawling Lancaster office. He'd redone what had been a furniture megastore. Above the main entrance, four foot high letters spelled out his name. Inside, everything big and sleek, there was the eternal fountain and over there, a room holding boxes of evidence for his army of attorneys with our Rex Paris in their corner. Before the year was out, the o' Keeffes filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the city of Palmdale for the lack of security cameras and against the private All Valley Security company hired to patrol the park and ride lot. The o' Keeffe's told me there was no going back.

[Mike O'Keefe]

Now, you know, we have mixed emotions. You know, how are people going to perceive us, you know, you know, doing the civil action, however, you know, the more important thing was to get this thing solved. And so that was your motivation, right? Absolutely.

[Keith Morrison]

But you were afraid that people would think that you were greedy or something.

[Pat O'Keefe]

Some people thought we just wanted to get money from Michelle's murder.

[Keith Morrison]

But Paris was into the investigation now, like a detective on steroids. And unlike the police, he kept in constant touch with the o'. Keeffes.

[Reporter]

They were totally involved in everything I did. You know, I would talk to Michael Keefe and I'd talk to Pat. It was interesting when you'd call them, whoever, whichever one you called, the other one would get on the phone. You know, I've never had a case where they, they were so involved in it, you know, and wanting to know every single detail.

[Keith Morrison]

What did Rex say that he could do for you?

[Mike O'Keefe]

He just said he could get some information. He thought he could do some depositions, he would get an investigator on it. As it turned out, he got a top notch investigator on it.

[Keith Morrison]

That's not cheap.

[Mike O'Keefe]

No, it's not cheap.

[Pat O'Keefe]

Oh, it's very expensive.

[Mike O'Keefe]

Very expensive.

[Pat O'Keefe]

So a lot of the money that we got from the lawsuit we had

[Keith Morrison]

to pay plowed back into that place.

[Pat O'Keefe]

Yeah.

[Mike O'Keefe]

Now Rex, you know, he set up an account and everything, but everything we paid and I went off and, you know, had a lot of personal expense on the thing, you know.

[Keith Morrison]

Sure. Oh, they were all in now. Another spring had come to the high desert. Temperatures climbed into the 80s. Clumps of sage bloomed around the park and ride. And the o' Keefes turned up the heat a little more. They added Raymond Jennings to their wrongful death lawsuit. And R. Rex Paris himself would conduct the deposition. Paris came fully prepared. He had carefully studied all of Detective Longshore's interviews with Jennings. He'd gotten to know Jennings, mannerisms, his way of talking. Charming guy. Could disarm a perfect stranger, even a suspicious detective. Paris had already invested a considerable sum of money in the o' Keefe investigation. And perhaps to add some pressure on the DA he invited a special guest. A reporter from the Antelope Valley Press. The local newspaper was there while you deposed this man?

[Reporter]

Yes.

[Keith Morrison]

How common is that?

[Reporter]

Well, usually doesn't happen

[Keith Morrison]

something else. That usually doesn't happen. When Jennings arrived at the big office with the four foot letters spelling Paris's name, he came alone. He did not bring a lawyer. Didn't have one. So how did you go about this?

[Reporter]

The first process is to make him comfortable and have, like you and I are doing, you. You engage him in a discussion, but then you also then want to break that. That rapport you develop and see how he is when he's angry. And so I would do that.

[Rex Paris]

Mr. Jennings, do you remember the night Michelle O' Keefe was killed? I did.

[Keith Morrison]

Jennings settled himself in the big mauve colored conference room. They'd put him in a high backed boardroom chair with a potted plant behind him. A few feet away, Michelle's parents, Pat and Michael Keefe, stared intently. They had been cautioned some of the testimony would be graphic and all of it was being videotaped by a camera crew.

[Rex Paris]

You murdered Michelle o'. Kee. No, I did not murder Michelle o'. Keefe. I have no contact with Shallow Key. I've never seen Michelle o'. Kee.

[Keith Morrison]

Jennings just swatted that one away. But then Paris brought up that polygraph. The one Jennings had submitted to before his cognitive interview.

[Rex Paris]

Why you plunk the lie detector test? I have no idea why I felt it. I don't even know if a true lighted detector test was admitted to. I have no idea.

[Keith Morrison]

And so it went on for hours. Paris probing, deconstructing, trying to unravel Jennings story.

[Rex Paris]

I'm not your scapegoat. The Real killer is out there someplace, and I'm not the one.

[Keith Morrison]

The lawyer might have advised Jennings not to rise to the bait, not to say the things he said. But of course, he didn't have a lawyer.

[Rex Paris]

You're being a smart ass. And be a smart ass back, too.

[Keith Morrison]

Jennings seemed brash, even cocky.

[Rex Paris]

You ask a crazy question, I give you a crazy answer.

[Reporter]

In many respects, it was an unfair advantage because he didn't have an attorney. And I was able to go on for hours and hours and hours, you know, back, back, looping him and backtracking and putting him in different spots.

[Rex Paris]

You're doing a very good job. I. Irritating, me, getting underneath my skin. I'm trying to stay nice and calm because I know what you want me to do is blow up in front of this camera so you can take it and use it against me. It's not going to happen, my friend. Okay?

[Reporter]

He had nothing to gain. You know, he had already filed for bankruptcy or was going to file for bankruptcy. There was no reason for him to engage in this deposition other than he was enjoying it.

[Rex Paris]

We're going to take a short break while we change tapes. Mr. Jennings, I want you to do something really novel here today. I want you to tell us the absolute truth and the best you can memorize. That's what I'm doing for you, Mr. Parrish. And I'd like you to remember that we are talking about the death of an 18 year old girl. And that smirk on your face, you don't have. You don't have to remind me. I'm sorry it makes you angry. Okay, why don't you keep your smirk off? No, I will not. My facial experiences are going to stay like they are. Ask your questions. Let's get this over with so I can go. I'm not happy. I'm not happy somebody's dead.

[Reporter]

But he was glib, incredibly glib. And I remember at one point during the deposition thinking, you know, I could walk into that courtroom and he could win without a lawyer. He's a car salesman, you know. He was a good car salesman.

[Rex Paris]

I pray every day, I said, if they're going to come and arrest me and charge me for this crime, I'm gonna do it.

[Keith Morrison]

And that's precisely what the investigator hired by Paris for the o' Keeffes was trying his level best to make happen.

[Mike O'Keefe]

And we met with him one night out at the park and Ride. And Pat asked him, how sure are you that he. She did this, you know, Raymond Lee Jennings. And he looked her in the eye and he says, I am 100% certain Raymond Lee Jennings killed your daughter.

[Commercial Narrator]

At Charmin. We heard you shouldn't talk about going to the bathroom in public, so we decided to sing about it.

[Keith Morrison]

Charmin ultra strong you can use less better than the rest Charmin ultra strong booty pass the clean text Shaman weave

[Mike O'Keefe]

texture it's the best Study up, teach

[Keith Morrison]

a lesson all fresh your booty pass

[Rex Paris]

the clean test Shaman ultra strong Charmin

[Commercial Narrator]

ultra strong with diamond weed texture cleansing better than the leading one plaid brand so you can use less Enjoy the go with Charmin Mom I saw Dylan's dad make dinner, like actually cook, and it was straight fire. He said it was Blue apron assemble and bake. All the ingredients showed up pre chopped and he just laid it out on a baking sheet and no cap. Dinner was on the table in like 25 minutes. Apparently it's chef designed and it has like over 40 grams of protein. That's a lot, right? So maybe we try it.

[Keith Morrison]

Just saying.

[Commercial Narrator]

You can be the next Dylan's dad, but get $50 off your first two orders plus free shipping with code STIR50. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com terms for more.

[Keith Morrison]

I'm Craig Melvin. Cheers.

[Rex Paris]

Cheers.

[Investigator/Detective]

Cheers.

[Keith Morrison]

I've always been a glass half full

[Rex Paris]

kind of guy, and now I'm talking

[Reporter]

to some people who look at the world that way, too.

[Keith Morrison]

Some really fascinating folks who share their defining moments, their triumphs, their challenges. Their stories are funny and mike candid.

[Reporter]

So I. I hope you'll join me each week.

[Keith Morrison]

And who knows, you might just come away with your own glass half full. Search Glass Half Full with Craig Melton From Today on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. It's hardly uncommon to encounter tension in law office conference rooms. Anxiety, suppressed rage. But surely few such encounters could rival the barely contained few fury in the air at the office of R. Rex Paris.

[Reporter]

There's a reason our conference room table is so wide that you can't be reached, because depositions can be volatile things. So I had security there.

[Keith Morrison]

Things got very personal very fast, said Mr. Paris.

[Reporter]

He was able to get between them and me and get his hands around my neck and do it in a fashion. He came up behind me. I'm sitting at the table, and he sticks his hand on my neck and apologizes for getting angry earlier. But he was, you know, clearly telling me, I can get to you. It was an interesting experience.

[Keith Morrison]

Paris thought Jennings was on the edge, about to crack. One gentle push and he might confess.

[Rex Paris]

I don't want you getting upset now, you're not getting upset now, are you? Not going to get mad in front of the camera? Not going to threaten me or anything like that? I do that.

[Keith Morrison]

Did it work? Seemed to. Once Jennings calmed down, they resumed a more civil conversation. And that's when Paris got. Well, not a confession, but as that reporter listened and took notes, Paris got something he could use.

[Rex Paris]

You can see clearly her neck, and it looks as if there was still a slight pulse. So you have a very clear recollection of seeing a slight pulse in her neck? To my memory, I honestly do. Honestly do. I'd like you to visualize that scene and tell me, can you actually. Did you actually see her fingers twitching? I'm just going to go by what I remember that night, and I'm just going to answer. Yes.

[Reporter]

It's like he was telling the story as if he was standing there, but saying he was over here at his car.

[Keith Morrison]

But he knew things. He could only know he was at the murder scene.

[Rex Paris]

That's correct.

[Keith Morrison]

In other words, he knew too much.

[Reporter]

Way too much. Way too much.

[Keith Morrison]

Then, as the deposition drew toward a close, Jennings told Paris that his former National Guard sergeant had been in touch with him, and the sergeant didn't like what he was hearing.

[Rex Paris]

His exact words was, hey, Jennings, what the is going on? He said, I just had people leave here, and they wanted to see pretty much everything that you've ever done here and what kind of record you have and so forth. There's a lawyer out here who's actually got a wild hair up his ass for him, and he's actually trying to pin this murder on me. And I guess he's going to go through the extreme to see that I'm put away for my exact words to him. And who is this lawyer with a wild hair up his ass that wants to pin this murder on you? That would be me, Mr. Peck. That would be me. I don't know what I've done to you my previous life, but seemed to have a little hair up there for himself. Now, I don't know why, but it's affected my family, and it's affecting me, despite the reports that have been in the papers.

[Keith Morrison]

Sure enough, all that became a lead story in the Antelope Valley Press the very next day, written by that reporter, the one Paris invited to the deposition.

[Mike O'Keefe]

I remember on the front page of one of the newspaper, there was a caption underneath Jennings and was, lies, lies and lies. And so things started to heat up after that.

[Keith Morrison]

Mike and Pat O' Keefe were 100% sure Jennings was the man who murdered their daughter. Crazy thing was he lived just a mile away from them in Paondale and

[Pat O'Keefe]

he would just come in and buy milk or diapers or whatever because he had four or five kids. So I would see him at the grocery store a couple times.

[Keith Morrison]

Paris settled a civil lawsuit against Palmdale and the family received a substantial payment and the claims against Jennings and all Valley security were dropped. But maybe the deposition had accomplished exactly what Rex Paris set out to do. Detective Longshore certainly thought so. Based on what Jennings said in that deposition, Longshore wrote up a case and submitted it to LA County Deputy District Attorney Robert Fultz. I was convinced this guy did it, who took a good look and declined no prosecution.

[Rex Paris]

But I saw that there were some

[Investigator/Detective]

serious problems with the physical evidence in the case.

[Keith Morrison]

Just wasn't any right. And so I thought, well, let's wait on this one. We've got other ones more urgent at this point. The o' Keeffes were crushed, but not beaten. No way.

[Mike O'Keefe]

As long as there's breath in my lungs, we aren't going to give up until this thing's resolved.

[Keith Morrison]

But they were running out of options. Rx Paris, Detective Longshore. They'd done all they could do. And then a new sheriff came to town. Make that a retired sheriff's deputy named Jim Jeffrey. One day in the dead of winter, he reached out and touched the six foot high polished wooden cross the o' Keeffe's had erected. The park and ride in Michelle's memory.

[Investigator/Detective]

I said, you know Michelle, you're gonna have to help me here.

[Keith Morrison]

I'm gonna need some help. I may call upon you. Well, who knows, Maybe she was listening. Next on the girl in the blue Mustang.

[Investigator/Detective]

Sometimes a fresh pair of eyes can

[Keith Morrison]

maybe spot something that looks a little different. It seemed like it had bogged down and it had bogged down around one person and that was Raymond Lee Jennings. I was going to do what I could do to prove that he didn't kill this girl.

[Investigator/Detective]

And if we could get past that,

[Keith Morrison]

then we could move forward and go

[Investigator/Detective]

after the person that did kill her.

[Keith Morrison]

The Girl in the Blue Mustang is a production of Dateline and NBC News. Scott Frazier is a producer. Brian Drew, David Varga and John Coster are audio editors. Thomas Kemen is assistant audio editor. Keani Reed is associate producer. Adam Gorfayne is co executive producer. Liz Cole is executive producer, producer. And David Corvo is senior executive producer from NBC News Audio. Bryson Barnes is technical director. Sound mixing by Bob Mallory. Nina Bisvano is associate producer. If you ever needed to be persuaded that bad things can happen anywhere, then take a journey with us.

[Reporter]

From compelling mysteries to in depth investigations, our Dateline episodes are available as podcasts.

[Commercial Narrator]

You can hear the latest stories every Tuesday. For more, follow Dateline NBC on Amazon Music.

[Pat O'Keefe]

Or just ask.

[Commercial Narrator]

Alexa played the podcast Dateline NBC on Amazon Music.

[Keith Morrison]

Great storytelling with a twist from the True Crime original.