The Girlfriends S3/Bonus Ep 1: Lisa and Bruna

Summary

The Girlfriends: Jailhouse Lawyer – Season 3, Bonus Episode 1: Lisa and Bruna

Date: September 8, 2025
Host: Anna Sinfield (iHeartPodcasts/NOVEL)
Main Guests: Judge Bruna DiBiase & her daughter, Lisa

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Episode Overview

This intimate bonus episode steps away from the central narrative of Kelly Harnett to spotlight a raw and moving conversation between Judge Bruna DiBiase, a respected Queens judge, and her daughter, Lisa, who has recently been released from prison. Through Anna Sinfield’s empathetic narration and probing questions, the episode explores the personal and systemic impacts of addiction, loss, imprisonment, and recovery. It dives deep into how trauma and grief reverberate through even the most “untouchable” families, and how the criminal justice system touches those on both sides of the bench.

Central Theme:
How do victim and villainhood overlap? What does it mean to survive tragedy, addiction, and to return from prison—not only to a changed world but as a changed person and family?

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

A Unique Encounter: Kelly Harnett and Judge Bruna DiBiase

• [03:35] Judge DiBiase recounts the extraordinary day Kelly Harnett, a former defendant, returns to court to thank her with a dozen roses—an act infused with religious and personal symbolism (“Everything Kelly believes and holds near to her heart is represented in these flowers.” – Anna Sinfield, 04:15).
• Kelly’s gratitude centers on the judge not delaying her case, allowing her to spend precious final weeks with her dying mother.
• [04:33] Bruna: “If you look behind you, you see that vase with the red roses there? … Those are the roses. I still keep them in a vase in chambers.”

Bruna & Lisa: A Mother-Daughter Relationship Put to the Test

• The setting is strikingly informal—Judge DiBiase’s chambers, filled with Italian-American warmth, bustling with everyday family and newness after Lisa’s return home.
• [09:12] Lisa: “Our relationship is wonderful... It’s very open, tremendous communication, one of trust. And I emphasize those things because it wasn’t always like that on my end…when I was in active addiction…I couldn’t even understand why I was so resistant to that.”

Bruna’s Background: Justice and Service

• [10:23] Bruna shares her upbringing: the strict home of a NYPD officer, academic focus, and, importantly, the moment she realized the inequity of gendered career paths during a political internship:

  • [10:54] Bruna: “I remember coming back home to my father and saying to him, I could do what they do, Daddy. And I applied to law school really ... my final year of college, and that just changed the path of my life.”

• Early court reform work: developing “problem-solving courts”—domestic violence courts, drug courts, veteran’s courts, etc.

• [11:42] Bruna: “...to address the underlying issue that would bring somebody into court…At that time, they didn’t seem to touch my life.”

Family Grief and the Descent into Addiction

• Eric, Bruna’s son, dies of a drug overdose in 2012—an unimaginable blow for the family.
  • [12:52] Bruna: “Probably the greatest fear someone has is to lose a child...What do you do now? Do you fall apart or do you pause, think about it, and decide to pick yourself up and move forward?”
• Lisa starts abusing alcohol and cocaine as she grieves, describing herself as "trying to survive and navigate through pain" ([13:14]).

The Crime: A Tragedy on Both Sides

• [14:10] On October 30, 2019, Lisa, intoxicated and under the influence of cocaine, drives erratically and kills cyclist John James Ousma Quintero.
  • [15:06] Lisa: “When I committed my crime and Mr. Usma Quintero died because of it, that changed everything.”
• The episode emphasizes the ripples of grief, highlighting John’s family and Lisa’s guilt.
• [15:51] Bruna: “There are always two sides that grieve...So, you know, for me, my grief for the family was a knowing one. As a parent who lost a child, I understand from having experienced it myself. So it was hard. We grieve. We still grieve for them.”

Prison and the Justice System

• Lisa is sentenced to 3–9 years, serves about 3. She describes prison as physically, emotionally, and spiritually punishing.
  • [19:51] Lisa: “Prison is difficult physically, mentally, emotionally. You get stripped. Spiritually, it’s loud, there’s a lot of chaos going on and you know, you’re always in survival mode...”
• [20:25] Bruna: Discusses the isolation of incarcerated women, highlighting that most get little to no support from the outside, earning as little as $0.14 per hour—most taken for fines/restitution.

Resilience, Programs, and Solidarity

• Lisa uses her time to participate in welding, ground crew, dog rehabilitation, and earns 36 credits via the Bard Prison Initiative ([22:41]).

  • [22:56] Lisa: “It reminded me that I am an intelligent, thinking woman, and Bard was wonderful. The way the professors interact with us as students was very like we were their equals. And that is difficult to find in the prison environment when you’re wearing green.”

• She finds deep kinship with other incarcerated women, noting most are there due to addiction or past trauma.

  • [23:48] Lisa: “I have yet to have come across a woman on the inside that didn't have a trauma or some relation to addiction. Most women are in there because they committed their crime while in active addiction. A lot of domestic violence cases, too. A lot of survivors. Everyone has a story.”

Coming Home: Rediscovery and Uncertainty

• [28:01] Lisa: “Today is October 3rd and I was released on September 5th... I am good. I’m great. I’m very grateful to be with my family. ...It’s a little bit overwhelming in the best way, if that makes sense.”

• The adjustment period is intense. Freedom is both liberating and disorienting—“In a lot of ways your choices are made for you on the inside.” ([28:51] Lisa)

• Bruna takes great care preparing for Lisa’s return, wanting everything to be perfect:

  • [29:41] Bruna: “I probably cleaned the house a hundred times before she came home. ... Still, I wanted everything to be just so for her.”

• On getting her daughter back:

  • [29:59] Bruna: “I do...I said, I feel like I have my daughter back. And she actually said to me, you don’t have your daughter back, Mom. Because the person I am now never existed before. ... Life changes us. Life moves forward.”

Systemic Impact: How Experience Changes a Judge

• Anna probes whether Bruna’s professional judgments have changed:
  • [30:42] Bruna: “Having had an incarcerated daughter has informed my decisions now about the length of a sentence individuals should receive. I don’t know that it’s the length of a sentence that rehabilitates or breaks a person. ... If someone has an underlying addiction, our resources are better spent in putting the resources into treating the addiction, especially someone who wants to be treated.”

Looking to the Future

• Lisa is working for Release Recovery, supporting others in early sobriety and addiction recovery.

  • [32:03] Lisa: “I would love to turn that into a career. ... I remember when I was first getting sober and people showed up for me…if I can continue on that path, that would continue, you know, a world beyond my wildest dreams.”

• Bruna, ever a mother, supports this vision:

  • [32:50] Bruna: “The same. I support her vision. I love her vision. I think it's beautiful. And ... she has taught me also … to value every day. That’s a good day. …and so today is a good day.”

• Anna offers parting reflection on the necessity of letting those who have paid their debts “actually live, too. To grow and move on.”

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Notable Quotes

• Judge Bruna DiBiase:

  • “We are mother and we are daughter. And what is our relationship like?” ([09:08])
  • “Having had an incarcerated daughter has informed my decisions now about the length of a sentence individuals should receive.” ([30:42])
  • “I say to the kids in my court that we all fall down in life, but what matters is what you do when you pick yourself up. Because remember, what is possible is greater than what is past.” ([34:15])

• Lisa:

  • “Our relationship is wonderful…It’s very open, tremendous communication, one of trust…that wasn’t always like that on my end…when I was in active addiction.” ([09:12])
  • “When I committed my crime and Mr. Usma Quintero died because of changed everything.” ([15:06])
  • “I immersed myself into recovery ... I just took all the suggestions, and I wanted to live differently.” ([21:59])
  • “…It reminded me that I am an intelligent, thinking woman, and bard was wonderful. The way the professors interact with us as students was very like we were their equals. And that is difficult to find in the prison environment.” ([22:56])
  • “I have yet to have come across a woman on the inside that didn’t have a trauma or some relation to addiction. Most women are in there because they committed their crime while in active addiction.” ([23:48])
  • “I’m very grateful to be with my family. ...It’s a little bit overwhelming in the best way, if that makes sense.” ([28:13])
  • “There’s so much that I know about myself now that I am sober and in recovery for just about five years. …But it’s very important for me to stay of service.” ([31:29])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |---------------|-------------| | 03:35 – 04:50 | Kelly Harnett thanks Judge Bruna DiBiase with roses | | 07:34 – 09:58 | Bruna & Lisa discuss their mother-daughter relationship post-incarceration | | 10:23 – 11:32 | Bruna’s upbringing, career origins, and drive for justice | | 12:35 – 13:59 | The impact of Eric’s death and Lisa’s path into addiction | | 14:10 – 15:51 | The fatal accident: Lisa’s crime and the aftermath | | 19:51 – 21:21 | Lisa’s prison experience and Bruna’s reflections on visiting inmates | | 22:12 – 23:48 | Lisa’s achievements and realizations inside prison | | 28:01 – 30:33 | Lisa’s homecoming – challenges, gratitude, and family dynamics | | 30:42 – 31:22 | How Bruna’s personal experience has shifted her judicial philosophy | | 32:03 – 32:50 | Lisa’s future aspirations in the recovery field | | 34:15 | Bruna’s message to youth in her court: “We all fall down in life…” |

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Memorable Moments

• Judge and former defendant hugging in court—a humanizing, unusual gesture in the justice system ([04:33]).
• Lisa’s candid acknowledgment that she is deeply changed—her mother doesn’t get the “old Lisa” back, but someone new, and perhaps stronger ([29:59]).
• Bruna’s vulnerability about personal loss and professional struggle, admitting her judicial philosophy is forever altered by having an incarcerated child ([30:42]).
• Spotlight on prison realities: the deep poverty, social isolation, and pervasive trauma of female inmates ([20:25]–[23:48]).

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Tone and Reflection

Anna Sinfield’s narration is gentle, deliberate, and empathetic, often standing back to observe the deep, ordinary love and pain not just of a judge and her daughter, but of a broken—and healing—family. The tone is conversational, honest yet never sensationalized. Both guests are reflective and forthright, unafraid to address guilt, shame, struggle, and hope head-on.

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Next Episode Preview

Anna teases a new case in the upcoming bonus episode: a once “clean cut” case of a woman violently attacking a man, now re-examined through a changed lens. The thematic thread of challenging initial appearances and embracing complexity continues.

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Summary

A powerful, nuanced episode that foregrounds humanity—behind the bench, behind bars, and within families struck by addiction and loss. It challenges the audience to reconsider how we define victims and villains, and highlights the potential for personal redemption and systemic change, showing that every person, no matter where they sit or sleep, is more than the sum of their worst day.

Transcript

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea, you begged.

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[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

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[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

He said, judge, can I speak to you? And I know this is strange.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

It's an attorney she knows well, and he's looking a little sheepish, you know.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

You did the case of Kelly Harnett, and I know her. I've represented her, and she's really very sincere. But she wants to come and see you and thank you.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

It's an unusual request. Defendants don't usually make calls to the judge's chamber. But, of course, not all defendants are like Kelly Harnett.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

She did, in fact, come to see me in the courtroom. She came in person, and the officers alerted me that there was someone here who wanted to see me, who had a dozen roses.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

This isn't just a nice gesture. You'll remember that Kelly is a Devout follower of St. Therese, a Catholic saint whose signature token is a rose. Everything Kelly believes and holds near to her heart is represented in these flowers.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

If you look behind you, you see that vase with the red roses there? Red silk roses. Those are the roses. I still keep them in a vase in chambers. And she spoke to me from a distance, and she came up and she said, hello, Judge Cbiazi. And then I just embraced her and hugged her.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

Do you remember what you spoke about?

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

Her gratitude mostly was gratitude. She shared with me that by not delaying her case, she was able to spend time with her mother, who then, I think, died three weeks after she was released. So that was her biggest gratitude, that I didn't delay her case, and that as a result of that, she was able to be with her mother when her mom passed. Once you leave Supreme Criminal Court, you really don't want to come back, even if it's with good news. Some do. But she. She was definitely the most enthusiastic and willing. And I'm sure she would come back every day if she could.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

I don't doubt that I still find it hard to reckon with the idea of a judge physically embracing a formerly incarcerated person. The system doesn't usually give room for that sort of warmth. But just like Kelly isn't like all the other defendants, Bruner isn't like all the other judges.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

My life experiences, I think now informs how I operate in those courts. And I would say now I feel more of an insider to understanding the underlying issues that bring someone into court.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

Around 13 years ago, Judge Bruner's son Eric died of a drug overdose. Then, just a few years later, her daughter Lisa nearly ended up going down the same path. But this time it was someone else who died because of her addiction. In today's episode, I'm going to sit down with this mother and daughter who accidentally and tragically found themselves on different sides of the law. I'm Anna Sinfield, and from the teams At Novel and iHeart podcasts, this is the girlfriends jailhouse lawyer that you. Bonus. Episode 1 Lisa and Bruna.

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

Mommy, can I sit on this?

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

Yeah, of course.

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

You know, if it was like a.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

Fixture or is that just decor?

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

Right.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

It's October 3, 2024, and I'm sitting in Judge Bruno DiBiase's chambers. It should have an air of authority to it, maybe even grandiosity, but it doesn't. I'm here to see Bruna the judge, but I'm also here to see Bruna the mother, who's sitting here with her daughter Lisa.

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

If I'm uncomfortable to.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

They're both kind of equal parts warm and brisk as Queen's natives are want to be. And they're both fussing over what I'm going to eat.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

There's an apple here staring at you.

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

Just start chopping on the apple.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

Okay. I'm experiencing the Italian American hospitality. Yeah. Bruna is on and off the phone to her aging father, making sure he made it to his doctor's appointment. After that, she facetimes her husband so I can meet him. He's also a judge and as I'm mildly shocked to learn, a leather wearing biker. Okay, shall we? Bruna and Lisa are being gorgeous together. Both worried that the other hasn't eaten, needs water. There's a purposefulness to their interactions because they're new. Lisa only just got out of prison a month ago, and you can tell that they're still figuring out how to be together again in real time. So what is your relationship like as mother and daughter?

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

We are mother and we are daughter. And what is our relationship like?

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

Our relationship is wonderful. It's probably going to be impossible for me not to get emotional. It's very open, tremendous communication, one of trust. And I emphasize those things because it wasn't always like that on my end. You know, I have a mother that is loving and giving, sacrificing. And I know that I was very resistant to that for a long time. And when I was, it was when I was in active addiction. And I couldn't even understand why I was so resistant to that. Our relationship is one of gratitude, I think today.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

I think so, too.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

We'll get into why and how Lisa's addiction began to take hold and impact their relationship. But first, I want to put an image in your mind of a young Bruna Dibiase, born in Manhattan and raised in Queens. Could we understand a little bit more about your life kind of growing up so we can know who has ended up at this desk?

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

My dad was a New York City cop. Very strict. I always say the reason I went to law school is because the only thing I was allowed to do was study.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

But back when she's still a student, Bruna almost takes another path.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

I was a psychology major. I wanted to help people. I wanted to become a psychologist, a psychiatrist, more in that area.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

It all changes after she gets what should be a prestigious internship with a New York state senator.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

All the young ladies who were in the internship program were really assigned to do the secretarial functions in the senator's office. And I remember watching all the men who had the positions of authority and who were lawyers, and I remember coming back home to my father and saying to him, I could do what they do, Daddy. And I applied to law school really, like, at the last minute, my final year of college, and that just changed the path of my life.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

Love that. So you. You kind of got here as an act of stubborn defiance against the men.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

You know? Yes.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

Earlier in Bruna's career, she was already working on improving the court system, bringing in a bit of that drive to help people from her psychology days.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

Before I became a judge, I was chief of staff to a statewide administrative judge. And in that role, we were tasked with creating in the New York state court system, problem solving courts and problem solving courts was really a unique concept to address the underlying issue that would bring somebody into court. We were working on mental health courts. We were working on creating domestic violence courts, drug courts, veterans courts, adolescent courts.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

And when you say domestic violence courts, youth courts and stuff, that means that those are courts that are set up specifically to deal with just domestic violence cases.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

Yes. That's correct. I was helping to create training programs and to begin these projects, and at that time, they didn't seem to touch my life.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

But that all changes when Bruna's son eric, dies in 2012 following a battle with drug addiction. This family, who from the outside must have looked untouchable, is suddenly blown apart.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

Probably the greatest fear someone has is to lose a child. I remember someone once said to me, well, I lost my son. I don't know how you go forward. I don't know how you could, you know, continue living. So what do you do now? Do you fall apart or do you pause, think about it, and decide to pick yourself up and move forward?

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

I think we were all grieving in different ways and in some ways separate. And then slowly I started getting into drinking, and then that led into drug use as well. I was severely addicted to alcohol and severely addicted to cocaine. I didn't know I was making the decisions I was making. I just. I was trying to survive and navigate through pain. And I remember saying to my mother, when Eric was still alive and his addiction was just taking over, I remember thinking, he's gonna end up in prison, and I don't know how I'm going to be able to handle. I'll be scared thinking about what that would be like for him every day. And then fast forward. And here I was inside a jail cell.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

This is not a light conversation. This is heavy.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

This is. Are you guys doing okay?

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

Yes.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

Yeah, we're. I mean, you know, we're open and we're honest.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

On October 30, 2019, Lisa gets into her car after spending the evening in a bar. On the drive home, Lisa's driving 85 in a 40 mile an hour zone. She's twice the legal alcohol limit. She has cocaine in her system, and the floor of her Chevrolet Silverado is littered with bags of it. At one point, Lisa swerves violently, she says, to avoid an oncoming car. Struggling to regain control, she collides with a cyclist. His name is John James Ousma Quintero. John's taken to the hospital, but his injuries are too severe. He's pronounced dead that same day. He leaves behind a daughter back home in Colombia who he'd been sending money to that he made from his job at the 7 11.

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

When I committed my crime and Mr. Usma Quintero died because of changed everything.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

Lisa pleads guilty to multiple charges, including vehicular manslaughter and aggravated driving while intoxicated. But due to COVID 19 restrictions, her sentencing is delayed for for more than a year and a half. It's not until September of 2021 that she's back in court for that. Her mother, Bruna is by her side.

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

I remember his brother and his mother in the courtroom and I watched my parents lose a child and he was a child.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

There are always two sides that grieve and we had tremendous grief. And so, you know, for me, my grief for the family was a knowing one. As a parent who lost a child, I understand from having experienced it myself. So it was hard. We grieve. We still grieve for them.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

On September 9, 2021, Lisa is sentenced to three to nine years in state prison.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

You don't really want anyone else to experience the pain and horror of that. And those were three years that I lived that.

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[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

Prison is difficult physically, mentally, emotionally. You get stripped. Spiritually, it's loud, there's a lot of chaos going on and you know, you're always in survival mode in some aspects.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

At first there were times when I couldn't even hug her, so I would see her, but we couldn't have physical contact. And so that to me was hard.

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

I remember the first time I got a hug from you and it startled me. I haven't, I haven't hugged somebody. I haven't gotten a hug from somebody in I don't know what it was six months. At that point.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

I was able to visit my daughter because I'm in a different position. But it was obvious to me there were hundreds of women in the facility and on visiting days there were maybe at most eight to 10 women who had visitors. And I did learn from my daughter that there are some women who don't get packages, who don't get commissary money. And so, I mean, think about that too, you know, and think about the fact that they make, I don't know how much, 25 cents an hour?

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

No, 14.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

14 cents an hour. And if they have, if they have fines, restitution, restitution is deducted from the 14, 15 cents an hour they make. So half of that or a percentage of that goes to the fines. And what they're left was with that money to make purchases and commissary. If they're not getting packages, it's impossible.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

Bruna visits Lisa as much as she can, and when she's not there physically, she makes sure she's always there at the other end of the phone.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

I would speak to her every morning. I would speak to her in the evening. But I assure you, I was the only judge in the building who was receiving calls from prison, and I would always make sure I took those calls.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

On the phone, Lisa tells Bruna about all the things she's getting up to to pass the time. She'd already gotten clean because her crime had happened around Covid. The case moved really slowly, but it meant she could spend a year in rehab before prison.

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

I immersed myself into recovery, and it was a very scary time, But I just took all the suggestions, and I wanted to live differently Once Lisa got.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

To prison, she just wanted to be useful.

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

I stayed very, very busy while I was incarcerated. Any type of positive program, I put myself out there, and I applied myself and worked hard to become a part of.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

She did welding, and she was part of the outside ground crew.

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

I was only one of three individuals out of the whole population. It's a very trusted position.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

And most excitingly, she rehabilitated shelter dogs also.

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

On top of that, I had the opportunity to go back to school. I became part of the BPI program that Bard offers.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

Bard is Bard College, and BPI is their prison initiative program.

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

I earned 36 college credits. It was very important for me, once I immersed in that program, to see that I doubted my level of intelligence as a woman for a very long time. And it reminded me that I am an intelligent, thinking woman, and bard was wonderful. The way the professors interact with us as students was very like we were their equals. And that is difficult to find in the prison environment when you're wearing green.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

Wearing green. I can't imagine it's something Lisa ever thought she'd do. She's a judge's daughter, and yet here she is, surrounded by the sort of women her mother sends to prison, and she's starting to realize they're not so different from her.

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

I have yet to have come across a woman on the inside that didn't have a trauma or some relation to addiction. Most women are in there because they committed their crime while in active addiction. A lot of domestic violence cases, too. A lot of survivors. Everyone has a story. I've met women that have been in there for 20, 25 years and these women I just like how. How do you get through this? It was very difficult for me at the end of my sentence and I'll say I only did three years compared to some of these women. That was hard for me. In the end I was starting to break. If the point was to break me, I was getting there.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

Next, Lisa comes home and Judge Bruner gets her daughter back.

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[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

Hello it is Ryan and we could.

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[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

Today is October 3rd and I was released on September 9th. Nope, September 5th. So a little less than a month.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

And how are you finding it?

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

So I'm good, I am good. I'm great. I'm very grateful to be with my family. I'm very grateful to be back home. And so now that I'm out, you don't necessarily have somebody telling you you have to be here this time. This is when you eat, this is when you lock in, this is when you do those things. And I have lots of, lots of love and support coming in, which I cherish. So it's a little bit overwhelming in the best way, if that makes sense.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You're like figuring out how to be your own autonomous human being again on the outside with freedom and.

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

Yeah, like in a lot of ways. Yes, like in a lot of ways your choices are made for you on the inside. You're told where to go, when to go and what to do. And so of course I'm under supervision and I welcome that. But now, you know, I'm free to answer back certain people or not or your day to day tasks. So trying to open up a bank account or you know, like I said, walk the dogs, you know, trying to train my dog. Old dogs, new tricks.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

So yes, dogs aren't anything new. When Lisa went in, she had two dogs and she left them with us. And I have a dog. So we became a family of three dogs.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

Wow, okay.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

Mom took on the dogs, busy home.

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

There's a lot going on.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

Yes.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

And Bruna, how has it felt having Lisa home?

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

I probably Cleaned the house a hundred times before she came home. And Lisa kept reminding me that no matter how many times I cleaned it, it was 100 times better than where she was coming from. Still, I wanted everything to be just so for her.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

Do you feel like you've got your daughter back?

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

I do. In fact, that was what I've always said. I feel like I got my daughter back. I said that to her once. I said that to her when she was in recovery. I said, I feel like I have my daughter back. And she actually said to me, you don't have your daughter back, Mom. Because the person I am now never existed before. You are a different person. I mean, how can you not when things happen to you in your life, how can you not, you know, life changes us. Life moves forward.

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

I guess.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

Like, one of my final questions is, Bruna, how has this affected your work as a judge? Has it affected it at all?

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

Having had an incarcerated daughter has informed my decisions now about the length of a sentence individuals should receive. I don't know that it's the length of a sentence that rehabilitates or breaks a person. I feel now, with all the knowledge that I have about addiction, about making services available to the young kids who appear in my court, and not just the kids. If I think, and I strongly support that, if someone has an underlying addiction, our resources are better spent in putting the resources into treating the addiction, especially someone who wants to be treated generally.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

Do you have sort of like ambitions for the future? I know there's a lot that you're sorting out so you don't have to do like a 15 year plan.

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

But yeah, there's so much that I know about myself now that I am sober and in recovery for just about five years. You know, God willing, we take it one day at a time. You know, I think I'll always be somebody that's resilient, relentless, striving for better, of course, for myself, but because that helps the people around me that I love. But it's very important for me to stay of service.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

Lisa's working at a place called Release Recovery. It's where she got clean before her prison sentence.

[Lisa (Judge DiBiase's daughter)]

I would love to turn that into a career. I would love to stay in the recovery world. I mean, one of the reasons why I stay in a 12 step program and go to meetings is to give to those what was so freely given to me. Right. Like, I remember when I was first getting sober and people showed up for me in a way that I could not show up for myself. And that made all the difference. And they sat with me and they listened to me and they cared for me, and that has carried me. So if I can continue on that path, that would continue, you know, a world beyond my wildest dreams.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

That's amazing. And Bruna, I know the perspective is a little different as a mother. So what would you like for Lisa?

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

The same. I support her vision. I love her vision. I think it's beautiful. And she has taught me also that to value every day. That's a good day. And, you know, and so today is a good day. I thank you for being with us, and I thank you for giving me the opportunity to hear these words from my daughter.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

The pain that both Bruna and Lisa have been through separately, together is tangible. You can hear it in their voices. And I can see it in the way that they look at each other when they're speaking. But I also see a deep, persevering love between a mother and a daughter, between a judge and a former prisoner. And now I'm gonna get a little bit woo woo here, but just indulge me. Something I've come to believe deeply during the making of this podcast series is that every extra turn that we get to spend on this silly little planet is a blessing. It's why it must be taken seriously when that opportunity, the opportunity of life is taken from someone. But it also means that we have to grant people like Lisa the opportunity to actually live, too. To grow and to move on. Judge DiBiase puts it a bit more succinctly.

[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

I say to the kids in my court that we all fall down in life, but what matters is what you do when you pick yourself up. Because remember, what is possible is greater than what is past.

[Anna Sinfield (Host/Narrator)]

Look to the future, because you can't change the past. But what if we can change how people look at it? In our next bonus episode, I delve into a case that at one point seemed clean cut. Woman violently attacks man and admits it. But years later, the way people and the law look at this case has changed. So buckle up, because next week, I give you my most challenging case study yet. And I ask, what should the state have done with Tina? I'm looking at this grease boil, and I'm still thinking of not just him per se. It was about everything in life. I'm back on drugs. I've disappointed so many people that don't know I'm back on drugs again. I remember putting the pot down on that radiator like I had two voices. One was saying, don't do this. This is so wrong. And another like fucked it. The Girlfriend's Jailhouse Lawyer is produced by Novel for iHeart Podcasts. For more from Novel, visit Novel Audio. The show is hosted by me, Anna Sinfield and is written and produced by me and Lee Meyer with additional production from Jake Otajevic and Michael Jino. Our assistant producer is Madeline Parr. The editors are Georgia Moody & Me Anna Sinfield production management from Cherie Houston, Jo Savage and Charlotte Wolf. Our fact checker is Danya Suleiman. Sound design, mixing and scoring by Daniel Kempson and Nicholas Alexander Music supervision by me, Alice Enfield, Lee Meyer and Nicholas Alexander Original music composed by Nicholas Alexander, Daniel Kempson and Louisa Gerstein Story development by Nell Gray Andrews and Willard Foxton. Creative Director of Novel. Max o' Brien and Craig Strachan are our executive producers for Novel and Katrina Norvell and Nikki Itor are the executive producers for iHeart podcasts and the marketing lead lead is Alison Cantor. Thanks also to Carrie Lieberman and the whole team at WME.

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[Judge Bruna DiBiase]

Illustrated tickets this is an iHeart podcast.